On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 11:12:06 +1100, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

>We've all seen them. Some of us own cars with them. I do. Or did. I
>refer, of course, to Sun damaged polycarb headlights. I spent an hour or
>so over the long weekend using this product:
>
>https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/dc/v000087445/
>
>Outstanding! SO much more light on the road from the Stagea HID
>headlights. Nice sharp cut-off. Just fabulous.
>
>I did quite a bit of research, before I chose the 3M product. The only
>other product I considered was the Sylvania one. It was a lot more
>expensive, more difficult to obtain and required a lot more elbow grease
>(no drill required).
>
>Anyway, for anyone wanting to tart up their headlights, the 3M product
>is brilliant. Instructions are clear and easy to understand. All you
>need to add is a drill/driver and a spritzer bottle of water.

What a great project for a 3D printer. New lenses for old.

On 9/10/2021 8:49 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/10/2021 11:34 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 8/10/21 11:07 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> I'll bet the fine people of Western Australia are beside themselves
>>> with excitement at the fact that Automotive Tradespeople are
>>> Licensed, because if this completely clueless wankstain is any
>>> indicator of the level of competency required to meets the licensing
>>> approval "standard" then they must have had some *real* fucking munts
>>> in the trade that needed "weeding out" :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Been watching "Car Wizard" videos on Youtube, his most recent video is
>> about a small Buick that had been to a dealership 4 times for the same
>> problems, check engine light on, engine temp all over the place and
>> the alternator light was on sometimes.
>> Dealer changed the engine oil and the serpentine belt and said it was
>> fixed, turned out the fault was a faulty thermostat and a bad battery
>> but the dealer could neither find the faults or fix them. > That is
>> just one of hundreds of horror car dealer stories on the
> internet.
>
> Why am I not surprised by that?
>
> The history of the dealership service world is one of incompetence,

....and the history of NoddyLiar service world is one of proven
incompetence and worse complete dishonesty.

Someone who lied under oath and and lies about being qualified will have
no qualms about blaming someone or something else for their own
incompetence either.

Your own words condemn you, dindu.

On 9/10/21 11:49 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/10/2021 11:34 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 8/10/21 11:07 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> I'll bet the fine people of Western Australia are beside themselves
>>> with excitement at the fact that Automotive Tradespeople are
>>> Licensed, because if this completely clueless wankstain is any
>>> indicator of the level of competency required to meets the licensing
>>> approval "standard" then they must have had some *real* fucking munts
>>> in the trade that needed "weeding out" :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Been watching "Car Wizard" videos on Youtube, his most recent video is
>> about a small Buick that had been to a dealership 4 times for the same
>> problems, check engine light on, engine temp all over the place and
>> the alternator light was on sometimes.
>> Dealer changed the engine oil and the serpentine belt and said it was
>> fixed, turned out the fault was a faulty thermostat and a bad battery
>> but the dealer could neither find the faults or fix them. > That is
>> just one of hundreds of horror car dealer stories on the
> internet.
>
> Why am I not surprised by that?
>
> The history of the dealership service world is one of incompetence, of
> gouging, and of customers being treated like mugs. They are the very
> worst place you can ever take your car to be repaired.
>
>> If that's the standard of work that "licensed" dealer "technicians" do
>> then I pity car owners who take their car to dealerships for anything
>> more than a basic service.
>
> Yep. They employ automatons who aren't capable of independent thought,

Also the system doesn't allow them to have independent thoughts, its do
it their way or you are out the door, either way its not a good result
for the customer.
Not allowed to repair, only allowed to replace.
Bit like the problem with the WRX AC, problem was the gap in the AC
compressor clutch was out of spec but they couldn't even find any
problem, undo one 10mm bolt, remove a shim so the gap is now within spec
and problem fixed but despite looking at it 3 times they couldn't even
find a fault let alone fix it.
The fault is as much to do with car maker mandated systems that dealers
must follow as it is with individuals.

--
Daryl

On 9/10/2021 1:31 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 9:45 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 9/10/2021 12:27 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Whether Brasso has changed it's formula and/or is no longer an
>>> effective metal polish has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic
>>> of polishing polycarbonate headlights. Brasso may or may not be
>>> effective at polishing metal these days and I couldn't tell you as I
>>> don't use it for that. However what I *can* tell you is that the
>>> current liquid variety is *very* effective as a plastic polish, and
>>> unlike the FLC loudmouths doing all the irrelevant screaming I can
>>> tell you that from experience :)
>>>
>>> They really don't need any help in making themselves look like utter
>>> spastics, do they? :)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> nothing could be more stupid than someone who blocks posters, cos he
>> says he doesn't care what they say, then asks his lacky to post what
>> they've said cos he wants to know what was said, but can't see it cos
>> he has them blocked! as you did in your last post lol. what could be
>> more stupid than that!
>>
>>
>
> Completely right, jonzie is just too dumb to see he's being used as
> his pawn. But back to his claim that the new Brasso works on
> headlights... if you're *sanding* you should wet sand. The new Brasso
> is as effective as water in that application.
>
> He's clueless as always and completely wrong on the effectiveness of
> Brasso.
>

yes we can never believe anything he says so why would we believe.. "..
the current liquid variety is *very* effective as a plastic polish, I
can tell you that from experience".

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
- clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

On 8/10/2021 10:34 pm, Daryl wrote:

> Been watching "Car Wizard" videos on Youtube, his most recent video is
> about a small Buick that had been to a dealership 4 times for the same
> problems, check engine light on, engine temp all over the place and the
> alternator light was on sometimes.
> Dealer changed the engine oil and the serpentine belt and said it was
> fixed, turned out the fault was a faulty thermostat and a bad battery
> but the dealer could neither find the faults or fix them.
> That is just one of hundreds of horror car dealer stories on the internet.
> If that's the standard of work that "licensed" dealer "technicians" do
> then I pity car owners who take their car to dealerships for anything
> more than a basic service.
>
Years ago I had an 1800. It started backfiring so I took it to the local
BMC dealer. Picked it up that evening still backfiring was told to bring
it back Monday for further diagnosis. I decided to have a look myself,
it took about 5 minutes to find that the rubber pipe from the PCV valve
to the inlet manifold had perished. Never went back there again.

On 9/10/2021 8:19 am, Xeno wrote:

> The training regime for tradespeople in the US army would be
> second to none

You must be joking, I've known a whole lot of people who were with the
Yanks in Vietnam, their opinions of the skills of US maintainers are
about as low as it gets. Basically they were trained on one thing, one
engine, one gun, one radio and were totally lost outside of that. They
threw stuff away rather than fix it, which was gold to the Australians
who were long on fixing skills but short on supplies.

On 9/10/21 12:27 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/10/2021 10:58 pm, jonz wrote:
>> On 10/8/2021 9:14 PM, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>
>>> and from your other post ..
>>>
>>> https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish
>>>
>>> let's see jonzie try and dig him out of this one!  :)
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>    Dig 'im out?, of where? and why should I?...  :):):)
>
> Indeed. The only people needing to be "dug out" here are the FLC
> fucktards who made complete cunts out of themselves and who are *now&*
> moving the goalposts in creating an irrelevant argument to try to wipe
> some of that egg off their face.
>
> Whether Brasso has changed it's formula and/or is no longer an effective
> metal polish has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of polishing
> polycarbonate headlights. Brasso may or may not be effective at
> polishing metal these days and I couldn't tell you as I don't use it for
> that. However what I *can* tell you is that the current liquid variety
> is *very* effective as a plastic polish, and unlike the FLC loudmouths
> doing all the irrelevant screaming I can tell you that from experience :)

The only polishing medium in Brasso is Kaolin. Toothpaste has kaolin as
its abrasive medium so you may as well use toothpaste for polishin
polycarbonate headlights.
>
> They really don't need any help in making themselves look like utter
> spastics, do they? :)

You certainly do, Mr Mirror.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/10/2021 10:57 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 11:19 am, jonz wrote:
>> On 10/8/2021 9:09 PM, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2021 8:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 8/10/2021 11:29 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 8/10/2021 1:09 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 19:39:34 UTC+11, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually no, the new Brasso is pretty much liquid and doesn't
>>>>>>> work at all.
>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>   Brasso has *always* been a liquid, that requires a good shaking
>>>>>> before use. However, a liquid it was/is!.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it works just fine. Windscreen boy has no fucking idea.....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It *doesn't* work anymore. The reviews back this up as it turns out.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish
>>>>
>>>> Way to go "All Imperial Jeep" boy, you're wrong again!
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>  It`s *on line* so it *must* be a *fact*....UH-HUH!.
>
>
> your ignorance is showing. https://www.productreview.com.au/ is the most
> authoritative site for getting info and opinions about products from
> consumers. ie. ppl who actually use them. I have done reviews myself.
> that's the first point. secondly, if most ppl ie. the vast majority, are
> saying a product is crap, what are the chances that it is? here's a
> clue.. 99.99% certainty it is!

And how many reviews are actually from ordinary people and not shills
for the manufacturers?

On 10/9/2021 11:57 AM, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 11:19 am, jonz wrote:
>> On 10/8/2021 9:09 PM, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2021 8:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 8/10/2021 11:29 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 8/10/2021 1:09 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 19:39:34 UTC+11, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually no, the new Brasso is pretty much liquid and doesn't
>>>>>>> work at all.
>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>   Brasso has *always* been a liquid, that requires a good shaking
>>>>>> before use. However, a liquid it was/is!.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it works just fine. Windscreen boy has no fucking idea.....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It *doesn't* work anymore. The reviews back this up as it turns out.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish
>>>>
>>>> Way to go "All Imperial Jeep" boy, you're wrong again!
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>  It`s *on line* so it *must* be a *fact*....UH-HUH!.
>
>
> your ignorance is showing. https://www.productreview.com.au/ is the
> most authoritative site for getting info and opinions about products
> from consumers. ie. ppl who actually use them. I have done reviews
> myself. that's the first point. secondly, if most ppl ie. the vast
> majority, are saying a product is crap, what are the chances that it
> is? here's a clue.. 99.99% certainty it is!
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> as usual..
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> From lil' echo. (as usual)
>>
>>
>
> so spake noddy's echo server lol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 All my *own* opinion cletus. No prizes for second, especially when you
steal other ppl`s turn of phrase.

>
>

--
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea. Massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of
mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." — Gene
Spafford, 1992

On 9/10/2021 3:11 pm, jonz wrote:
> On 10/9/2021 11:57 AM, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 9/10/2021 11:19 am, jonz wrote:
>>> On 10/8/2021 9:09 PM, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 8/10/2021 8:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 8/10/2021 11:29 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/10/2021 1:09 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 19:39:34 UTC+11, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually no, the new Brasso is pretty much liquid and doesn't
>>>>>>>> work at all.
>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>   Brasso has *always* been a liquid, that requires a good
>>>>>>> shaking before use. However, a liquid it was/is!.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it works just fine. Windscreen boy has no fucking idea.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It *doesn't* work anymore. The reviews back this up as it turns out.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish
>>>>>
>>>>> Way to go "All Imperial Jeep" boy, you're wrong again!
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>  It`s *on line* so it *must* be a *fact*....UH-HUH!.
>>
>>
>> your ignorance is showing. https://www.productreview.com.au/ is the
>> most authoritative site for getting info and opinions about products
>> from consumers. ie. ppl who actually use them. I have done reviews
>> myself. that's the first point. secondly, if most ppl ie. the vast
>> majority, are saying a product is crap, what are the chances that it
>> is? here's a clue.. 99.99% certainty it is!
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> as usual..
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> From lil' echo. (as usual)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> so spake noddy's echo server lol
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>  All my *own* opinion cletus. No prizes for second, especially when
> you steal other ppl`s turn of phrase.
>

you ARE his echo server. the ONLY person who echos posts for him.

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
- clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

On 9/10/2021 2:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/10/21 11:49 am, Noddy wrote:

>>> If that's the standard of work that "licensed" dealer "technicians"
>>> do then I pity car owners who take their car to dealerships for
>>> anything more than a basic service.
>>
>> Yep. They employ automatons who aren't capable of independent thought,
>
> Also the system doesn't allow them to have independent thoughts, its do
> it their way or you are out the door, either way its not a good result
> for the customer.
> Not allowed to repair, only allowed to replace.
> Bit like the problem with the WRX AC, problem was the gap in the AC
> compressor clutch was out of spec but they couldn't even find any
> problem, undo one 10mm bolt, remove a shim so the gap is now within spec
> and problem fixed but despite looking at it 3 times they couldn't even
> find a fault let alone fix it.
> The fault is as much to do with car maker mandated systems that dealers
> must follow as it is with individuals.

It's a complex problem which is not helped by the fact that dealership
service departments are designed to make as much money as can be
achieved by turning over as many quick "in and out" service jobs per day
as possible.

When I was the service manager for a Honda dealership years ago the
normal procedure for the service department was to avoid as much
"non-service" work for as long as possible, as it interfered with the
daily income generation of the department. We had 6 "technicians" and an
apprentice, and each one of them did between 4 and 6 cars a day each on
average. Straight in-straight out. It was a very successful department
that made tonnes of money every single day, and what it *didn't* need
were jobs that would tie up a technician for hours where they could be
otherwise turning over a number of basic service jobs where the profit
margin per hour was significantly higher.

So we would fob people off. If someone had a mechanical problem on an
older car that wasn't going to be covered under warranty we would try to
steer them towards someone who could "do it sooner" such as a local
independent who would give a little kick back for sending work their
way. Similarly if someone had a warranty issue that needed addressing we
would have an obligation to do the repair but we would stall them for as
long as possible because Honda only paid something like 40% of the
normal retail service rate for warranty work and we would rather be
doing regular service work for full retail price than cut rate warranty
repairs for Honda.

That's how it worked. This was policy according to the dealer principal
and I as the service manager had no say in any of that. Company policy
was above my pay grade. What my job entailed was to ensure that the
service department ran exactly as the dealer principal wanted it to, and
to that end it did. Every other Honda dealership in the country ran the
same way, and just about every other dealership of *any* marque that I
visited operated along those lines. They're *all* in it to make money,
and they all have service departments because that's where the bulk of
the money is made.

They don't have your interests at heart. They have *theirs*. They know
they have a largely captive audience with most new car buyers being
ignorant enough to believe that they have no choice *but* to go to the
dealer for regular servicing, and the dealer milks the shit out of that
for all they can get away with.

This is the key difference between dealerships and independents.
Independents have to earn your custom by looking after you and providing
you with quality service at a reasonable price. Dealerships have no such
obligations and treat their clients as cash cows.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/10/2021 3:10 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 10:57 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 9/10/2021 11:19 am, jonz wrote:
>>> On 10/8/2021 9:09 PM, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 8/10/2021 8:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 8/10/2021 11:29 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/10/2021 1:09 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 19:39:34 UTC+11, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually no, the new Brasso is pretty much liquid and doesn't
>>>>>>>> work at all.
>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>   Brasso has *always* been a liquid, that requires a good
>>>>>>> shaking before use. However, a liquid it was/is!.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it works just fine. Windscreen boy has no fucking idea.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It *doesn't* work anymore. The reviews back this up as it turns out.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish
>>>>>
>>>>> Way to go "All Imperial Jeep" boy, you're wrong again!
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>  It`s *on line* so it *must* be a *fact*....UH-HUH!.
>>
>>
>> your ignorance is showing. https://www.productreview.com.au/ is the
>> most authoritative site for getting info and opinions about products
>> from consumers. ie. ppl who actually use them. I have done reviews
>> myself. that's the first point. secondly, if most ppl ie. the vast
>> majority, are saying a product is crap, what are the chances that it
>> is? here's a clue.. 99.99% certainty it is!
>
> And how many reviews are actually from ordinary people and not shills
> for the manufacturers?

99%. manufacturers reps won't be posting negative reviews will they

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
- clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

On 9/10/2021 2:59 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 8:19 am, Xeno wrote:
>
>
>> The training regime for tradespeople in the US army would be second to
>> none
>
> You must be joking,

ROTFL :)

I'll bet you he's deadly serious, which only serves to highlight how
clueless he actually is :)

> I've known a whole lot of people who were with the
> Yanks in Vietnam, their opinions of the skills of US maintainers are
> about as low as it gets. Basically they were trained on one thing, one
> engine, one gun, one radio and were totally lost outside of that. They
> threw stuff away rather than fix it, which was gold to the Australians
> who were long on fixing skills but short on supplies.

Heard similar stories from people. Americans tend to dispose of stuff
rather than repair it because they have precious few people who can
actually repair anything.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/10/2021 3:10 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 10:57 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:

>>
>>
>> your ignorance is showing. https://www.productreview.com.au/ is the
>> most authoritative site for getting info and opinions about products
>> from consumers. ie. ppl who actually use them. I have done reviews
>> myself. that's the first point. secondly, if most ppl ie. the vast
>> majority, are saying a product is crap, what are the chances that it
>> is? here's a clue.. 99.99% certainty it is!
>
> And how many reviews are actually from ordinary people and not shills
> for the manufacturers?

Not that *any* of it matters given that *no one* seems to be commenting
about how effective it is as a polish on polycarbonate headlights which
is actually what the conversation was about :)

It's effectiveness as a metal polish is totally irrelevant to any
discussion going on here....

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/10/2021 3:15 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 2:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 9/10/21 11:49 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> If that's the standard of work that "licensed" dealer "technicians"
>>>> do then I pity car owners who take their car to dealerships for
>>>> anything more than a basic service.
>>>
>>> Yep. They employ automatons who aren't capable of independent thought,
>>
>> Also the system doesn't allow them to have independent thoughts, its
>> do it their way or you are out the door, either way its not a good
>> result for the customer.
>> Not allowed to repair, only allowed to replace.
>> Bit like the problem with the WRX AC, problem was the gap in the AC
>> compressor clutch was out of spec but they couldn't even find any
>> problem, undo one 10mm bolt, remove a shim so the gap is now within
>> spec and problem fixed but despite looking at it 3 times they
>> couldn't even find a fault let alone fix it.
>> The fault is as much to do with car maker mandated systems that
>> dealers must follow as it is with individuals.
>
> It's a complex problem which is not helped by the fact that dealership
> service departments are designed to make as much money as can be
> achieved by turning over as many quick "in and out" service jobs per
> day as possible.
>
> When I was the service manager for a Honda dealership years ago the
> normal procedure for the service department was to avoid as much
> "non-service" work for as long as possible, as it interfered with the
> daily income generation of the department. We had 6 "technicians" and
> an apprentice, and each one of them did between 4 and 6 cars a day
> each on average. Straight in-straight out. It was a very successful
> department that made tonnes of money every single day, and what it
> *didn't* need were jobs that would tie up a technician for hours where
> they could be otherwise turning over a number of basic service jobs
> where the profit margin per hour was significantly higher.
>
> So we would fob people off. If someone had a mechanical problem on an
> older car that wasn't going to be covered under warranty we would try
> to steer them towards someone who could "do it sooner" such as a local
> independent who would give a little kick back for sending work their
> way. Similarly if someone had a warranty issue that needed addressing
> we would have an obligation to do the repair but we would stall them
> for as long as possible because Honda only paid something like 40% of
> the normal retail service rate for warranty work and we would rather
> be doing regular service work for full retail price than cut rate
> warranty repairs for Honda.
>
> That's how it worked. This was policy according to the dealer
> principal and I as the service manager had no say in any of that.
> Company policy was above my pay grade. What my job entailed was to
> ensure that the service department ran exactly as the dealer principal
> wanted it to, and to that end it did. Every other Honda dealership in
> the country ran the same way, and just about every other dealership of
> *any* marque that I visited operated along those lines. They're *all*
> in it to make money, and they all have service departments because
> that's where the bulk of the money is made.
>
> They don't have your interests at heart. They have *theirs*. They know
> they have a largely captive audience with most new car buyers being
> ignorant enough to believe that they have no choice *but* to go to the
> dealer for regular servicing, and the dealer milks the shit out of
> that for all they can get away with.
>
> This is the key difference between dealerships and independents.
> Independents have to earn your custom by looking after you and
> providing you with quality service at a reasonable price. Dealerships
> have no such obligations and treat their clients as cash cows.
>
>

one flaw in your argument. dealerships compete with each other. I could
take my car to the local dealership but I take it to another further away

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
- clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

On 9/10/2021 3:21 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 3:10 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 9/10/2021 10:57 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>> your ignorance is showing. https://www.productreview.com.au/ is the
>>> most authoritative site for getting info and opinions about products
>>> from consumers. ie. ppl who actually use them. I have done reviews
>>> myself. that's the first point. secondly, if most ppl ie. the vast
>>> majority, are saying a product is crap, what are the chances that it
>>> is? here's a clue.. 99.99% certainty it is!
>>
>> And how many reviews are actually from ordinary people and not shills
>> for the manufacturers?
>
> Not that *any* of it matters given that *no one* seems to be
> commenting about how effective it is as a polish on polycarbonate
> headlights which is actually what the conversation was about :)
>
> It's effectiveness as a metal polish is totally irrelevant to any
> discussion going on here....
>
>

wrong as usual. part of the discussion is about it's effectiveness for
intended purpose

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
- clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

On 9/10/2021 2:21 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 3:10 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 9/10/2021 10:57 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 9/10/2021 11:19 am, jonz wrote:
>>>> On 10/8/2021 9:09 PM, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>> On 8/10/2021 8:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/10/2021 11:29 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/10/2021 1:09 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 19:39:34 UTC+11, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actually no, the new Brasso is pretty much liquid and doesn't
>>>>>>>>> work at all.
>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>   Brasso has *always* been a liquid, that requires a good
>>>>>>>> shaking before use. However, a liquid it was/is!.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And it works just fine. Windscreen boy has no fucking idea.....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It *doesn't* work anymore. The reviews back this up as it turns out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Way to go "All Imperial Jeep" boy, you're wrong again!
>>>>
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>
>>>>  It`s *on line* so it *must* be a *fact*....UH-HUH!.
>>>
>>>
>>> your ignorance is showing. https://www.productreview.com.au/ is the
>>> most authoritative site for getting info and opinions about products
>>> from consumers. ie. ppl who actually use them. I have done reviews
>>> myself. that's the first point. secondly, if most ppl ie. the vast
>>> majority, are saying a product is crap, what are the chances that it
>>> is? here's a clue.. 99.99% certainty it is!
>>
>> And how many reviews are actually from ordinary people and not shills
>> for the manufacturers?
>
>
> 99%. manufacturers reps won't be posting negative reviews will they
>
>
Depends on which manufacturer they are shilling for.

On 9/10/21 11:49 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/10/2021 11:34 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 8/10/21 11:07 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> I'll bet the fine people of Western Australia are beside themselves
>>> with excitement at the fact that Automotive Tradespeople are
>>> Licensed, because if this completely clueless wankstain is any
>>> indicator of the level of competency required to meets the licensing
>>> approval "standard" then they must have had some *real* fucking munts
>>> in the trade that needed "weeding out" :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Been watching "Car Wizard" videos on Youtube, his most recent video is
>> about a small Buick that had been to a dealership 4 times for the same
>> problems, check engine light on, engine temp all over the place and
>> the alternator light was on sometimes.
>> Dealer changed the engine oil and the serpentine belt and said it was
>> fixed, turned out the fault was a faulty thermostat and a bad battery
>> but the dealer could neither find the faults or fix them. > That is
>> just one of hundreds of horror car dealer stories on the
> internet.
>
> Why am I not surprised by that?
>
> The history of the dealership service world is one of incompetence, of
> gouging, and of customers being treated like mugs. They are the very
> worst place you can ever take your car to be repaired.
>
>> If that's the standard of work that "licensed" dealer "technicians" do
>> then I pity car owners who take their car to dealerships for anything
>> more than a basic service.
>
> Yep. They employ automatons who aren't capable of independent thought,
> but then they don't need to be as they're part of the sausage machine
> running cars trough for oil and filters all day long and not ever
> dealing with anything more complicated than that.

The mechanics in all dealerships I worked in didn't do the lube jockey
work. They employed minimal skills people, like you, to do that low
level stuff. Unlike you, I have actually worked in dealerships and know
what goes on in them.
>
> That's why people like Windscreen boy are as clueless as they are, and
> make a noise about something as basic as wiring up a set of spot lights.
> They see that as a major achievement :)
>
>
>

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/10/21 11:54 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 11:19 am, jonz wrote:
>> On 10/8/2021 9:09 PM, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>
>>>> It *doesn't* work anymore. The reviews back this up as it turns out.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish
>>>>
>>>> Way to go "All Imperial Jeep" boy, you're wrong again!
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>   It`s *on line* so it *must* be a *fact*....UH-HUH!.
>
> Let me know when any of them posts anything relevant to polishing

You read *everything* Darren. Your sociopathy wouldn't have it any other
way.

> polycarbonate headlights, because at the moment all they're doing is
> strutting around like headless chooks about shit that has no relevance
> to it whatsoever :)
>
> Fucking morons :)

That mirror again...

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/10/21 11:48 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 9:19 am, Xeno wrote:
>> On 9/10/21 6:54 am, alvey wrote:
>>> On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 23:34:15 +1100, Daryl wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/10/21 11:07 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Been watching "Car Wizard" videos on Youtube, his most recent video is
>>>> about a small Buick that had been to a dealership 4 times for the same
>>>> problems, check engine light on, engine temp all over the place and the
>>>> alternator light was on sometimes.
>>>> Dealer changed the engine oil and the serpentine belt and said it was
>>>> fixed, turned out the fault was a faulty thermostat and a bad battery
>>>> but the dealer could neither find the faults or fix them.
>>>> That is just one of hundreds of horror car dealer stories on the
>>>> internet.
>>>> If that's the standard of work that "licensed" dealer "technicians" do
>>>> then I pity car owners who take their car to dealerships for anything
>>>> more than a basic service.
>>>
>
> so genius, if we don't take our cars to dealers for repairs or service,
> where are we supposed to take them? to backyard unqualified mechanics
> like noddy?  :)
>
That sounds like a very good way to render any and all warranty null and
void. That's why Darren isn't doing anything to his wife's Santa Fe.
Made worse by the fact that it is also under a lease agreement. It must
really piss him off not being able to lay a spanner on it.
>
>>> Corporal Agarn has spoken...
>
>
> I had to google that lol
>
>
>>
>> But not said terribly much of value. What he doesn't seem to
>> understand is the value of *training*. For instance, the Car Wizard
>> actually did a form of apprenticeship - in the US army. The training
>> regime for tradespeople in the US army would be second to none - and
>> the Car Wizard is the epitome of that. If you understand the system
>> and know how it all works, you can diagnose faults in it.
>>
>> Once again, the FLCJC put their foot in it.
>>
>
> with such ability with their feet maybe they should take up wine making
> in Italy?  :)
>
>
Oh the imagery!

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/10/21 12:08 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 11:54 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 9/10/2021 11:19 am, jonz wrote:
>>> On 10/8/2021 9:09 PM, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>
>>>>> It *doesn't* work anymore. The reviews back this up as it turns out.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/brasso-metal-polish
>>>>>
>>>>> Way to go "All Imperial Jeep" boy, you're wrong again!
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>   It`s *on line* so it *must* be a *fact*....UH-HUH!.
>>
>> Let me know when any of them posts anything relevant to polishing
>> polycarbonate headlights,
>
>
> there has been. if you didn't have ppl blocked you would know what was
> said.
>
Hint, Darren has no one blocked. He keeps proving that time and time again.
>
>> because at the moment all they're doing is strutting around like
>> headless chooks about shit that has no relevance to it whatsoever :)
>>
>> Fucking morons :)
>>
>
> see above. the moron is you
>
>

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/10/21 3:15 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 2:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 9/10/21 11:49 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> If that's the standard of work that "licensed" dealer "technicians"
>>>> do then I pity car owners who take their car to dealerships for
>>>> anything more than a basic service.
>>>
>>> Yep. They employ automatons who aren't capable of independent thought,
>>
>> Also the system doesn't allow them to have independent thoughts, its
>> do it their way or you are out the door, either way its not a good
>> result for the customer.
>> Not allowed to repair, only allowed to replace.
>> Bit like the problem with the WRX AC, problem was the gap in the AC
>> compressor clutch was out of spec but they couldn't even find any
>> problem, undo one 10mm bolt, remove a shim so the gap is now within
>> spec and problem fixed but despite looking at it 3 times they couldn't
>> even find a fault let alone fix it.
>> The fault is as much to do with car maker mandated systems that
>> dealers must follow as it is with individuals.
>
> It's a complex problem which is not helped by the fact that dealership
> service departments are designed to make as much money as can be
> achieved by turning over as many quick "in and out" service jobs per day
> as possible.
>
> When I was the service manager for a Honda dealership years ago the

Here it goes again - warning, heavy bullshit alert!

> normal procedure for the service department was to avoid as much
> "non-service" work for as long as possible, as it interfered with the
> daily income generation of the department. We had 6 "technicians" and an
> apprentice, and each one of them did between 4 and 6 cars a day each on
> average. Straight in-straight out. It was a very successful department
> that made tonnes of money every single day, and what it *didn't* need
> were jobs that would tie up a technician for hours where they could be
> otherwise turning over a number of basic service jobs where the profit
> margin per hour was significantly higher.

All you're proving by the above bullshit is that you never ever worked
in a dealership. That's not how they operated.
>
> So we would fob people off. If someone had a mechanical problem on an

You would've had to do that since you couldn't fix the techy stuff.

> older car that wasn't going to be covered under warranty we would try to
> steer them towards someone who could "do it sooner" such as a local
> independent who would give a little kick back for sending work their

Wouldn't do the work? What a load of cobblers. You *couldn't* do the work.

> way. Similarly if someone had a warranty issue that needed addressing we
> would have an obligation to do the repair but we would stall them for as
> long as possible because Honda only paid something like 40% of the
> normal retail service rate for warranty work and we would rather be
> doing regular service work for full retail price than cut rate warranty
> repairs for Honda.
>
> That's how it worked. This was policy according to the dealer principal
> and I as the service manager had no say in any of that. Company policy

In your dreams.

> was above my pay grade. What my job entailed was to ensure that the
> service department ran exactly as the dealer principal wanted it to, and
> to that end it did. Every other Honda dealership in the country ran the
> same way, and just about every other dealership of *any* marque that I
> visited operated along those lines. They're *all* in it to make money,
> and they all have service departments because that's where the bulk of
> the money is made.
>
> They don't have your interests at heart. They have *theirs*. They know
> they have a largely captive audience with most new car buyers being
> ignorant enough to believe that they have no choice *but* to go to the
> dealer for regular servicing, and the dealer milks the shit out of that
> for all they can get away with.
>
> This is the key difference between dealerships and independents.
> Independents have to earn your custom by looking after you and providing
> you with quality service at a reasonable price. Dealerships have no such
> obligations and treat their clients as cash cows.

That leaves you right out of *both options*. Such a pity that your time
as a service manager was only one of your many delusions.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/10/21 3:18 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 2:59 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 9/10/2021 8:19 am, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The training regime for tradespeople in the US army would be second
>>> to none
>>
>> You must be joking,
>
> ROTFL :)
>
> I'll bet you he's deadly serious, which only serves to highlight how
> clueless he actually is :)
>
>> I've known a whole lot of people who were with the Yanks in Vietnam,
>> their opinions of the skills of US maintainers are about as low as it
>> gets. Basically they were trained on one thing, one engine, one gun,
>> one radio and were totally lost outside of that. They threw stuff away
>> rather than fix it, which was gold to the Australians who were long on
>> fixing skills but short on supplies.
>
> Heard similar stories from people. Americans tend to dispose of stuff
> rather than repair it because they have precious few people who can
> actually repair anything.
>
That's because they don't have an apprenticeship system to speak of.
They all like you - no clear cut understanding of the underlying theory
of operation so cockups are frequent.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/10/21 3:21 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/10/2021 3:10 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 9/10/2021 10:57 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>> your ignorance is showing. https://www.productreview.com.au/ is the
>>> most authoritative site for getting info and opinions about products
>>> from consumers. ie. ppl who actually use them. I have done reviews
>>> myself. that's the first point. secondly, if most ppl ie. the vast
>>> majority, are saying a product is crap, what are the chances that it
>>> is? here's a clue.. 99.99% certainty it is!
>>
>> And how many reviews are actually from ordinary people and not shills
>> for the manufacturers?
>
> Not that *any* of it matters given that *no one* seems to be commenting
> about how effective it is as a polish on polycarbonate headlights which
> is actually what the conversation was about :)
>
> It's effectiveness as a metal polish is totally irrelevant to any
> discussion going on here....
>
>
Brasso has other components that you really don't want to use on
polycarbonate. Use toothpaste since it has the same polishing medium,
kaolin, in it and does a better job. After all, toothpaste is designed
to polish *tooth enamel*.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/10/2021 3:01 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 9/10/21 3:18 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 9/10/2021 2:59 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 9/10/2021 8:19 am, Xeno wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The training regime for tradespeople in the US army would be second
>>>> to none
>>>
>>> You must be joking,
>>
>> ROTFL :)
>>
>> I'll bet you he's deadly serious, which only serves to highlight how
>> clueless he actually is :)
>>
>>> I've known a whole lot of people who were with the Yanks in Vietnam,
>>> their opinions of the skills of US maintainers are about as low as it
>>> gets. Basically they were trained on one thing, one engine, one gun,
>>> one radio and were totally lost outside of that. They threw stuff
>>> away rather than fix it, which was gold to the Australians who were
>>> long on fixing skills but short on supplies.
>>
>> Heard similar stories from people. Americans tend to dispose of stuff
>> rather than repair it because they have precious few people who can
>> actually repair anything.
>>
> That's because they don't have an apprenticeship system to speak of.
> They all like you - no clear cut understanding of the underlying theory
> of operation so cockups are frequent.

Didn't you just say "The training regime for tradespeople in the US army
would be second to none"?