On 2022-02-22, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:27:54 +0000
> Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:
>
>> Well obviously you should have moved to Penistone.
>
> That sounds even nastier than kidney stones.
>

Pen, the root, would be the Bryttonic version of `Ben' (Hill, mountain).
There was a placename in Western Mercia, cant remember what is was
called, but the name was based on (Welsh for hill)(Saxon for
hill)(English `Hill'). back to sleep. zzzzzzzzz

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 23/02/2022 17:35, maus wrote:
> On 2022-02-22, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:27:54 +0000
>> Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Well obviously you should have moved to Penistone.
>>
>> That sounds even nastier than kidney stones.
>>
>
> Pen, the root, would be the Bryttonic version of `Ben' (Hill, mountain).
> There was a placename in Western Mercia, cant remember what is was
> called, but the name was based on (Welsh for hill)(Saxon for
> hill)(English `Hill'). back to sleep. zzzzzzzzz
>
>
Torpenhow Hill. HTH.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 23 Feb 2022 17:35:27 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> On 2022-02-22, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:27:54 +0000
> > Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Well obviously you should have moved to Penistone.
> >
> > That sounds even nastier than kidney stones.
> >
>
> Pen, the root, would be the Bryttonic version of `Ben' (Hill, mountain).
> There was a placename in Western Mercia, cant remember what is was
> called, but the name was based on (Welsh for hill)(Saxon for
> hill)(English `Hill'). back to sleep. zzzzzzzzz

I goove it's Tor Pen How Hill or thereabouts.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 23-Feb-22 15:39, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <ANSdnTMzk9CKzov_nZ2dnUU7-K2dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Richard
> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>> Nicholas D. Richards said:
>>> In article <RpWdnVnPV-4TZYj_nZ2dnUU7-NnNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Richard
>>>>
>>>> Not very many years ago, the R4 news had a story about "Plymouth Ho"
>>>> being thought to contain Rude Words. On checking it seems to have
>>>> become 'Hoe' since I Were Young.
>>>
>>> The town (in North Devon,) the play and the novels are (were) "Westward
>>> Ho!" not to be confused with "Plymouth Hoe", which is on the south coast
>>> of Devon.
>>>
>>> Incidentally "ho" and "hoe" are alternative spellings for a lady who is
>>> somewhat liberal with her favours.
>>
>> What else could the story have been ?
>>
> About a gardening implement hailing from Plymouth? Myself I use a Dutch
> Hoe.

Found in a lit window in Amsterdam?

--
Sam Plusnet

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:01:54 +0000
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 23-Feb-22 15:39, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:

> > About a gardening implement hailing from Plymouth? Myself I use a Dutch
> > Hoe.
>
> Found in a lit window in Amsterdam?

Not many of them are Dutch - for that matter not many working at
anything in the tourist zone of Amsterdam are Dutch.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

In article <slrnt1cs2v.eph.maus@dmaus.org>, maus <maus@dmaus.org> on
Wed, 23 Feb 2022 at 17:35:27 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On 2022-02-22, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:27:54 +0000
>> Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Well obviously you should have moved to Penistone.
>>
>> That sounds even nastier than kidney stones.
>>
>
>Pen, the root, would be the Bryttonic version of `Ben' (Hill, mountain).
>There was a placename in Western Mercia, cant remember what is was
>called, but the name was based on (Welsh for hill)(Saxon for
>hill)(English `Hill'). back to sleep. zzzzzzzzz
>
On the other hand 'But and Ben' has 'Ben' a the inner room.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

In article <DwvRJ.99260$sga6.55771@fx10.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
<not@home.com> on Wed, 23 Feb 2022 at 19:01:54 awoke Nicholas from his
slumbers and wrote
>On 23-Feb-22 15:39, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>> In article <ANSdnTMzk9CKzov_nZ2dnUU7-K2dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Richard
>> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>> Nicholas D. Richards said:
>>>> In article <RpWdnVnPV-4TZYj_nZ2dnUU7-NnNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Richard
>>>>>
>>>>> Not very many years ago, the R4 news had a story about "Plymouth Ho"
>>>>> being thought to contain Rude Words. On checking it seems to have
>>>>> become 'Hoe' since I Were Young.
>>>>
>>>> The town (in North Devon,) the play and the novels are (were) "Westward
>>>> Ho!" not to be confused with "Plymouth Hoe", which is on the south coast
>>>> of Devon.
>>>>
>>>> Incidentally "ho" and "hoe" are alternative spellings for a lady who is
>>>> somewhat liberal with her favours.
>>>
>>> What else could the story have been ?
>>>
>> About a gardening implement hailing from Plymouth? Myself I use a Dutch
>> Hoe.
>
>Found in a lit window in Amsterdam?
>
No, found in one of the 50 Sheds of Grey, when I bought the house. By
now it is Trigger's Hoe. At different times it has had a new head and a
new shaft. The same is true of the Shed of Grey. it should be called the
Shed of Trigger.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 2022-02-23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:01:54 +0000
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 23-Feb-22 15:39, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>
>> > About a gardening implement hailing from Plymouth? Myself I use a Dutch
>> > Hoe.
>>
>> Found in a lit window in Amsterdam?
>
> Not many of them are Dutch - for that matter not many working at
> anything in the tourist zone of Amsterdam are Dutch.
>
>

Been told emphatically that `Amsterdam is not Holland' in general. True,
even if technically it is in `North Holland'.

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 24 Feb 2022 15:32:52 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> On 2022-02-23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:01:54 +0000
> > Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 23-Feb-22 15:39, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> >
> >> > About a gardening implement hailing from Plymouth? Myself I use a
> >> > Dutch Hoe.
> >>
> >> Found in a lit window in Amsterdam?
> >
> > Not many of them are Dutch - for that matter not many working at
> > anything in the tourist zone of Amsterdam are Dutch.
> >
> >
>
> Been told emphatically that `Amsterdam is not Holland' in general. True,

In much the same way as Dublin is not Ireland for most of
Amsterdam, but then there is the area they call Centrum, roughly bordered
by the horseshoe of the three Grachts (canals). It is pure tourist trap
wallen to wallen from the shills outside the bait and switch restaurants
(the special has always just run out) to the carefully sleazy toned coffee
shops (the stains come from a spray can and are protected by a *lot* of
varnish, the graffiti in one of the pubs comes on rolls) by way of the
casinos, sex clubs, overpriced hotels and even the dodgy looking characters
who hiss "Coke, acid, speed[1]" at passers by.

The really clever bit is the way that it is surrounded by water on
one side and two streets of warehouses on the others - the tourists bounce
off the dark streets like balls off a wall and go back to the party.

Amsterdam for the Dutch starts on the other side of those streets
and is a very different place (it still has coffee shops and brothels but
they're much more discreet), many locals decline to go into Centrum.

[1] Pro-plus with dental anaesthetic, cardboard printed in a pretty pattern
of squares, Pro-plus without dental anaesthetic.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2022-02-24, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 24 Feb 2022 15:32:52 GMT
> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-02-23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> > On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:01:54 +0000
>> > Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 23-Feb-22 15:39, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>> >
>> >> > About a gardening implement hailing from Plymouth? Myself I use a
>> >> > Dutch Hoe.
>> >>
>> >> Found in a lit window in Amsterdam?
>> >
>> > Not many of them are Dutch - for that matter not many working at
>> > anything in the tourist zone of Amsterdam are Dutch.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Been told emphatically that `Amsterdam is not Holland' in general. True,
>

> Amsterdam for the Dutch starts on the other side of those streets
> and is a very different place (it still has coffee shops and brothels but
> they're much more discreet), many locals decline to go into Centrum.
>
> [1] Pro-plus with dental anaesthetic, cardboard printed in a pretty pattern
> of squares, Pro-plus without dental anaesthetic.
>

never been to Netherlands, seems a nice place. I used to swap software
with sommeone in Alkmaar, and got a SKA virus that way. That was before
i learned to checksum software.

There is a Holland in England too, from whence the blackboard-screech of
Yankee speech derives from. I knew a man from there, his speech was a
lot easier to listen to than The US yankees, or it may be that my
relatives from Boston are like that.

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 24/02/2022 18:33, maus wrote:

> never been to Netherlands, seems a nice place. I used to swap software
> with sommeone in Alkmaar, and got a SKA virus that way. That was before
> i learned to checksum software.
>
Worth a visit if you ever get a chance. Spend a day and evening in
Amsterdam (Known to many as Hampsterjam fr no very good reason), then
leave it for ever, unless you are keen on art and history, in which
case, you'll need a day for the Rijksmuseum. You will, of course do the
canal trip. The bulbfields in Spring are, rightly, a tourist trap. I
also like a toursty village called Volendam which makes a living selling
fish caught locally, as well as sellng tat to tourists. I recommend the
smoked eel. That's tourist stuff done.

For something a bit different, aim towards Maastricht, and you will find
a very nice range of hills and the Maas river valley, which turns into
the Meuse when it goes into France, then the the Moselle before it joins
the Rhine, which then exits into the North Sea past Rotterdam.

The Dutch are, on the whole, friendly, and some of them speak English
better than I do... One I have met of a very sheddy persuasion owns a
museum called Tractortron, where he has an amazing collection of
agricultural machinery and the stuff of everyday life in the area when
he started business. Tractors and machinery rusting away in barns, stuff
about to be binned when more modern stuff replaced it, and seen when he
visited the farm. You will be shown round by volunteers and the only
rule is ask before you touch. There are no barriers between you and most
of the exhibits. There is also a large shed round the back where rusty
tractors and other stuff is refurbished to join the exhibition.

http://www.museumlangenboom.nl/

See also https://www.flickr.com/photos/16330500@N06/albums/72157626287713381

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 24-Feb-22 15:32, maus wrote:
> Been told emphatically that `Amsterdam is not Holland' in general. True,
> even if technically it is in `North Holland'.

Nor is "Holland" "The Netherlands".

--
Sam Plusnet

On 23-Feb-22 21:47, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <DwvRJ.99260$sga6.55771@fx10.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
> <not@home.com> on Wed, 23 Feb 2022 at 19:01:54 awoke Nicholas from his
> slumbers and wrote
>> On 23-Feb-22 15:39, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>>> In article <ANSdnTMzk9CKzov_nZ2dnUU7-K2dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Richard
>>> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>>> Nicholas D. Richards said:
>>>>> In article <RpWdnVnPV-4TZYj_nZ2dnUU7-NnNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Richard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not very many years ago, the R4 news had a story about "Plymouth Ho"
>>>>>> being thought to contain Rude Words. On checking it seems to have
>>>>>> become 'Hoe' since I Were Young.
>>>>>
>>>>> The town (in North Devon,) the play and the novels are (were) "Westward
>>>>> Ho!" not to be confused with "Plymouth Hoe", which is on the south coast
>>>>> of Devon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Incidentally "ho" and "hoe" are alternative spellings for a lady who is
>>>>> somewhat liberal with her favours.
>>>>
>>>> What else could the story have been ?
>>>>
>>> About a gardening implement hailing from Plymouth? Myself I use a Dutch
>>> Hoe.
>>
>> Found in a lit window in Amsterdam?
>>
> No, found in one of the 50 Sheds of Grey, when I bought the house. By
> now it is Trigger's Hoe. At different times it has had a new head and a
> new shaft. The same is true of the Shed of Grey. it should be called the
> Shed of Trigger.

To me, "Trigger" is a horse.

(And a very strange name for a horse, now I ponder on't.)

--
Sam Plusnet

On 24/02/2022 20:29, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 24-Feb-22 15:32, maus wrote:
>> Been told emphatically that `Amsterdam is not Holland' in general. True,
>> even if technically it is in `North Holland'.
>
> Nor is "Holland" "The Netherlands".
>
Correct. It is *part of* the Netherlands.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 24/02/2022 20:34, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 23-Feb-22 21:47, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:

>> No, found in one of the 50 Sheds of Grey, when I bought the house. By
>> now it is Trigger's Hoe. At different times it has had a new head and a
>> new shaft. The same is true of the Shed of Grey. it should be called the
>> Shed of Trigger.
>
> To me, "Trigger" is a horse.
>
> (And a very strange name for a horse, now I ponder on't.)
>
Ah, you missed out on "Only Fools and Horses", one of the best sitcoms
ever made. Trigger was a street sweeper of many years, who only ever had
one broom. Admittedly, during his ownership, it had had a few new
handles and several new heads, but it was still the same broom he had
when he started.

As for Trigger being a strange name for a horse, you really don't want
to know what the name Tonto used for the Lone Ranger actually means...

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 24 Feb 2022 18:33:26 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> never been to Netherlands, seems a nice place. I used to swap software
> with sommeone in Alkmaar, and got a SKA virus that way. That was before
> i learned to checksum software.

It's an interesting place, I'm not sure I'd go so far as nice.
Holland suffers from too many people in nothing like enough space and
benefits from how good they are at dealing with it. Dutch efficiency is
almost invisible and very effective - but in hospital for a broken wrist I
felt more like something being repaired in a well run repair shop than
someone being healed by people who cared.

> There is a Holland in England too, from whence the blackboard-screech of

and Harlem is a district of Amsterdam.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

In article <ZURRJ.29890$dln7.7485@fx03.iad>, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com>
on Thu, 24 Feb 2022 at 20:29:43 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and
wrote
>On 24-Feb-22 15:32, maus wrote:
>> Been told emphatically that `Amsterdam is not Holland' in general. True,
>> even if technically it is in `North Holland'.
>
>Nor is "Holland" "The Netherlands".
>
Nor is "Up Holland" or "Downholland".
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:52:07 +0000
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Ah, you missed out on "Only Fools and Horses", one of the best sitcoms
> ever made.

That wasn't how my horse-mad twelve year old daughter described it
when she found it while looking for something horsey to watch, she had a
very low opinion of it. I wonder if she might find it more interesting now
that a decade or so has passed.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 24/02/2022 20:52, John Williamson wrote:
> Ah, you missed out on "Only Fools and Horses", one of the best sitcoms
> ever made. Trigger was a street sweeper of many years, who only ever had
> one broom. Admittedly, during his ownership, it had had a few new
> handles and several new heads, but it was still the same broom he had
> when he started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56yN2zHtofM

Tone

On 24/02/2022 20:34, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On 24 Feb 2022 18:33:26 GMT
> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> never been to Netherlands, seems a nice place. I used to swap software
>> with sommeone in Alkmaar, and got a SKA virus that way. That was before
>> i learned to checksum software.
>
> It's an interesting place, I'm not sure I'd go so far as nice.
> Holland suffers from too many people in nothing like enough space and
> benefits from how good they are at dealing with it. Dutch efficiency is
> almost invisible and very effective - but in hospital for a broken wrist I
> felt more like something being repaired in a well run repair shop than
> someone being healed by people who cared.
>
It worked, though, didn't it?

Holland is the Dutch equivalent of the Home Counties. Cram 'em in,
charge 'em lots.

Go East, and the population density drops off as the countryside gets
more interesting and less flat. I remember snow at Easter in Valkenberg,
near Maastricht. They had or have a mountain bike track and a Christmas
market in the old mine tunnels there. There is also a place nearby where
you can stand in three countries at the same time.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

> On 24/02/2022 20:52, John Williamson wrote:
>> Ah, you missed out on "Only Fools and Horses", one of the best
>> sitcoms ever made. Trigger was a street sweeper of many years, who
>> only ever had one broom. Admittedly, during his ownership, it had had
>> a few new handles and several new heads, but it was still the same
>> broom he had when he started.

See also "Ship of Theseus" - same idea applied to a ship 2500 years earlier.

--
Peter
-----

On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 09:10:57 -0000 (UTC)
Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:

> > On 24/02/2022 20:52, John Williamson wrote:
> >> Ah, you missed out on "Only Fools and Horses", one of the best
> >> sitcoms ever made. Trigger was a street sweeper of many years, who
> >> only ever had one broom. Admittedly, during his ownership, it had had
> >> a few new handles and several new heads, but it was still the same
> >> broom he had when he started.
>
> See also "Ship of Theseus" - same idea applied to a ship 2500 years
> earlier.

Also "my grandfather's axe", origin lost to history.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

In article <20220225094120.0f3d542ac4fd99b1e69cc48a@eircom.net>, Ahem A
Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Fri, 25 Feb 2022 at 09:41:20 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 09:10:57 -0000 (UTC)
>Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> > On 24/02/2022 20:52, John Williamson wrote:
>> >> Ah, you missed out on "Only Fools and Horses", one of the best
>> >> sitcoms ever made. Trigger was a street sweeper of many years, who
>> >> only ever had one broom. Admittedly, during his ownership, it had had
>> >> a few new handles and several new heads, but it was still the same
>> >> broom he had when he started.
>>
>> See also "Ship of Theseus" - same idea applied to a ship 2500 years
>> earlier.
>
>Also "my grandfather's axe", origin lost to history.
>
Was it like "grandfather's clock" or is the edge just as keen?
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 24/02/2022 18:33, maus wrote:
> On 2022-02-24, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 24 Feb 2022 15:32:52 GMT
>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-02-23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:01:54 +0000
>>>> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 23-Feb-22 15:39, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> About a gardening implement hailing from Plymouth? Myself I use a
>>>>>> Dutch Hoe.
>>>>>
>>>>> Found in a lit window in Amsterdam?
>>>>
>>>> Not many of them are Dutch - for that matter not many working at
>>>> anything in the tourist zone of Amsterdam are Dutch.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Been told emphatically that `Amsterdam is not Holland' in general. True,
>>
>
>> Amsterdam for the Dutch starts on the other side of those streets
>> and is a very different place (it still has coffee shops and brothels but
>> they're much more discreet), many locals decline to go into Centrum.
>>
>> [1] Pro-plus with dental anaesthetic, cardboard printed in a pretty pattern
>> of squares, Pro-plus without dental anaesthetic.
>>
>
> never been to Netherlands, seems a nice place. I used to swap software
> with sommeone in Alkmaar, and got a SKA virus that way. That was before
> i learned to checksum software.
>
> There is a Holland in England too, from whence the blackboard-screech of
> Yankee speech derives from. I knew a man from there, his speech was a
> lot easier to listen to than The US yankees, or it may be that my
> relatives from Boston are like that.

The Yeankeeness doesn't come from Holland (East Angular) it's a norrible
mixture of Irish, Northern Irish, Liverpuddlian and other West Coast
English towns, and prolly a bit of Scots thrown in.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 24/02/2022 20:09, John Williamson wrote:
> On 24/02/2022 18:33, maus wrote:
>
>> never been to Netherlands, seems a nice place. I used to swap software
>> with sommeone in Alkmaar, and got a SKA virus that way. That was before
>> i learned to checksum software.
>>
> Worth a visit if you ever get a chance. Spend a day and evening in
> Amsterdam (Known to many as Hampsterjam fr no very good reason), then
> leave it for ever, unless you are keen on art and history, in which
> case, you'll need a day for the Rijksmuseum. You will, of course do the
> canal trip. The bulbfields in Spring are, rightly, a tourist trap. I
> also like a toursty village called Volendam which makes a living selling
> fish caught locally, as well as sellng tat to tourists. I recommend the
> smoked eel. That's tourist stuff done.
>
> For something a bit different, aim towards Maastricht, and you will find
> a very nice range of hills and the Maas river valley, which turns into
> the Meuse when it goes into France, then the the Moselle before it joins
> the Rhine, which then exits into the North Sea past Rotterdam.

It used to be joined by the Thames as it swung North and before the sea
broke through and created the Channel (La Manche).
>
> The Dutch are, on the whole, friendly, and some of them speak English
> better than I do... One I have met of a very sheddy persuasion owns a
> museum called Tractortron, where he has an amazing collection of
> agricultural machinery and the stuff of everyday life in the area when
> he started business. Tractors and machinery rusting away in barns, stuff
> about to be binned when more modern stuff replaced it, and seen when he
> visited the farm. You will be shown round by volunteers and the only
> rule is ask before you touch. There are no barriers between you and most
> of the exhibits. There is also a large shed round the back where rusty
> tractors and other stuff is refurbished to join the exhibition.
>
> http://www.museumlangenboom.nl/
>
> See also
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16330500@N06/albums/72157626287713381

Somewhere where I'd be well at home.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.