On 31/03/2022 10:16, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
> On 30/03/2022 18:53, Stephen Packer wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 30 March 2022 at 15:12:33 UTC+1, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
>>
>>
>>> So, I suppose I have a foot in both camps. What I do not subscribe to
>>> though is the notion that metrication is easier for the general populace
>>> to understand. As long as people need to look up conversions on their
>>> phone in Tesco for questions such as "What is 320 grammes in
>>> Kilogrammes?", then there is no hope for this ideology and we might as
>>> well continue to use arbitrary measurements.
>>
>> You'll never have a system that's suitable for a lot of people,
>> whatever it is,
>> it's a reflection on people's numeracy/education not on the ease of
>> units.
>
> Absolutely. That was largely my point - that no system will suit
> everyone or every circumstance. That's not to say there shouldn't have
> been worthy efforts :-)
>
>> But metric *is* easier for the majority of numerate people.
>
> Indeed - its the innumerate or the barely numerate who don't get it?

It's the ones who were reared on imperial and who are too stupid to
understand metric. They'll all be dead soon and they all voted Leave so
why worry? Just ignore the fuckers.

> Notwithstanding all this (and there have been some good points made
> elsewhere in this sub-thread) I am a great fan of the SI system as a
> whole. It was well thought out but, as is so often the case, it has been
> progressively undermined by the use of derived units (and renaming of
> others).
>
> For example, the measurement of length.  The SI units are Kilometre,
> Metre and Millimetre (with the metre being the principal unit). Looking
> at an artefact or a plan, there is no need to put the units on because
> confusing those three is nigh on impossible. However, introduce (eg) the
> centimetre, as a derived unit, and all that simplicity goes horribly
> wrong because it introduces a potential element of ambiguity in the
> numbers.  This is a, regrettable, lingering hangover of the 'old' CGS
> system into the MKS - and even I have lost track (and lost the will to
> live) over which of those should be in capital letters and which not! :-)

Capital letter if the unit is named after a person, or if it's Mega
rather than milli?

On 31/03/2022 14:06, Mike Fleming wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 10:16, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
>> Notwithstanding all this (and there have been some good points made
>> elsewhere in this sub-thread) I am a great fan of the SI system as a
>> whole. It was well thought out but, as is so often the case, it has
>> been progressively undermined by the use of derived units (and
>> renaming of others).
>>
>>   This is a, regrettable,
>> lingering hangover of the 'old' CGS system into the MKS - and even I
>> have lost track (and lost the will to live) over which of those should
>> be in capital letters and which not! :-)
>
> Capital letter if the unit is named after a person, or if it's Mega
> rather than milli?

Ah yes - I mis-forget now.
Now all I have to remember is which ones actually were real people...

Apart from the big 7 containing Ampere & Kelvin, I found this - which
maybe useful to others - although I'd never seen the kat before:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units#Derived_units

HTH etc, Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 3/30/2022 2:57 PM, ogden wrote:
> stephen...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>
>
>> Does it mean we should switch from miles and pints? Frankly I don't give a fuck
>> but how many people know how many yards there are in a mile, or come to that
>> how many inches in a yard?
>
> I have no idea, but I have a reasonable idea how big each unit is, and I'd be picking an appropriate unit for the measurement.
>
> I might measure my height in feet and inches, but who cares what fraction of a mile that is. I might have measured my commute in miles, back in the before times, but I'd have had no idea how many yards it was, or had any need for intermediate units like chains and furlongs when I could decimalise the distance in miles.
>
> For day to day use, imperial measurements make quite a bit of sense, so long as you only need to use them one at a time. They were, after all, derived from practical uses rather than applied to them. Metric units are scalable and accurate. But 30" is a much nicer measurement for the width of a door than 760mm. 4' is a niftier measurement for the width of a window than 1200mm. 17" is a better round number for the size of a wheel than 430mm. I'm from the last generation that was taught both at school in the UK - my maths textbook at primary school still referred to New Pence, ffs - and I still use a mixture of both in daily life, whichever is the best fit. It works just fine.

I don't know how many others have learned their body parts. My handspan
is 9", my wingspan is 6', my crotch is a yard off the ground. think I
could estimate a lb weight, and a cup of liquid. Metric, I'd have to
study up.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 31/03/2022 16:26, Turby wrote:
>
> I don't know how many others have learned their body parts. My handspan
> is 9", my wingspan is 6', my crotch is a yard off the ground. think I
> could estimate a lb weight, and a cup of liquid. Metric, I'd have to
> study up.

But you live in a primitive culture, so you can't be expected to be
familiar with proper units of weights and measures.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 00:08:23 -0000 (UTC), wessie
<willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

>Sqirrel99 <secret.sqirrel99@gmail.com> wrote in news:t21d2m$hok$1@dont-
>email.me:
>
>> sweller wrote:
>>> I can do it in both systems 5'9" and 175cm and 12st 3lb 77.5 kg -
>>> however I can't do my waist size or inside leg in cm (34" and 29")
>>> without doing a conversion.
>>
>> A fellow orangutan -
>> Short legs, long body (and long arms too in my case).
>> Makes buying one-piece leathers a right pain.
>>
>
>I imagine there aren't many riders left in this place who would be in the
>market for 1 piece leathers

<waves>, well, still trying to decide whether I should upgrade my
cheap 20+ year-old RST leathers. "Probably" is the answer. Come to
think of it, my track helmet is getting on a bit as well. Think it
must be well over ten years old now.

--

-Pip

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:26:23 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:

>I don't know how many others have learned their body parts. My handspan
>is 9", my wingspan is 6', my crotch is a yard off the ground. think I
>could estimate a lb weight, and a cup of liquid. Metric, I'd have to
>study up.

The only one of those that os vaguely useful is th fathom, that you
call the "wingspan". It is indeed useful for measuring rope - quite a
niche usage, but invaluable in some situations when sailing.

I think most people in the UK and Europe could estimate a kilogram, as
it's a pretty standard size for a bag of sugar - in America you can
buy milk or fruit juices by the (US) quart, which is a pretty good
approximation of a litre, hence a kilogram, so you can probably
estimate that quite well.

A cup of liquid is completely useless, a ridiculous measuring system
that makes US recipes quite hard to follow, especially when it's used
for dry ingredients,
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

Ace wrote:

> A cup of liquid is completely useless, a ridiculous measuring system
> that makes US recipes quite hard to follow, especially when it's used
> for dry ingredients,

This.

--
Simon

On 01/04/2022 07:34, Ace wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:26:23 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:

>
> A cup of liquid is completely useless, a ridiculous measuring system
> that makes US recipes quite hard to follow, especially when it's used
> for dry ingredients,

Indeed, but I do keep a "cup" just for such emergencies.

Anyone able to work out what a gill is?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

YTC#1 wrote:
> On 01/04/2022 07:34, Ace wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:26:23 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A cup of liquid is completely useless, a ridiculous measuring system
>> that makes US recipes quite hard to follow, especially when it's used
>> for dry ingredients,
>
> Indeed, but I do keep a "cup" just for such emergencies.
>
> Anyone able to work out what a gill is?

Three doubles.

On 01/04/2022 09:23, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>On 01/04/2022 07:34, Ace wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:26:23 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> A cup of liquid is completely useless, a ridiculous measuring system
>> that makes US recipes quite hard to follow, especially when it's used
>> for dry ingredients,
>
>Indeed, but I do keep a "cup" just for such emergencies.
>
>Anyone able to work out what a gill is?

Fish use them for breathing,
HTH

Chris

--
XV750SE & GS550T

sweller wrote:
> Ace wrote:
>
> > A cup of liquid is completely useless, a ridiculous measuring system
> > that makes US recipes quite hard to follow, especially when it's used
> > for dry ingredients,
>
> This.

It still amazes me, when I see this discussed on places like Reddit, when yanks defend the use of cups in recipes on the basis that "not everyone has scales". As if it's still 1850 and a set of scales is still a big bulky metal thing with separate weights, and not a little electronic slab costing about a fiver.

On Friday, 1 April 2022 at 10:54:25 UTC+1, ogden wrote:
> sweller wrote:
> > Ace wrote:
> >
> > > A cup of liquid is completely useless, a ridiculous measuring system
> > > that makes US recipes quite hard to follow, especially when it's used
> > > for dry ingredients,
> >
> > This.
> It still amazes me, when I see this discussed on places like Reddit, when yanks defend the use of cups in recipes on the basis that "not everyone has scales". As if it's still 1850 and a set of scales is still a big bulky metal thing with separate weights, and not a little electronic slab costing about a fiver.

It amazes me that you're amazed by people arguing the unarguable/defending the indefensible online.
NAHAY?

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 10:54:25 AM UTC+1, ogden wrote:
> sweller wrote:
> > Ace wrote:
> >
> > > A cup of liquid is completely useless, a ridiculous measuring system
> > > that makes US recipes quite hard to follow, especially when it's used
> > > for dry ingredients,
> >
> > This.
> It still amazes me, when I see this discussed on places like Reddit, when yanks defend the use of cups in recipes on the basis that "not everyone has scales". As if it's still 1850 and a set of scales is still a big bulky metal thing with separate weights, and not a little electronic slab costing about a fiver.

Electric kettles etc...

On 3/31/2022 11:34 PM, Ace wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:26:23 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't know how many others have learned their body parts. My handspan
>> is 9", my wingspan is 6', my crotch is a yard off the ground. think I
>> could estimate a lb weight, and a cup of liquid. Metric, I'd have to
>> study up.
>
> The only one of those that os vaguely useful is th fathom, that you
> call the "wingspan". It is indeed useful for measuring rope - quite a
> niche usage, but invaluable in some situations when sailing.
>
A fathom is a depth measurement, which I rarely, if ever, use. A
wingspan, however, is useful for rope, cable, line and occasional stuff
outside. I use a handspan even more often around the house.

> I think most people in the UK and Europe could estimate a kilogram, as
> it's a pretty standard size for a bag of sugar - in America you can
> buy milk or fruit juices by the (US) quart, which is a pretty good
> approximation of a litre, hence a kilogram, so you can probably
> estimate that quite well.

True, but I never have the need. Also, every container sold here,
whether it's tin of soup, bag of pasta, or dish soap, has both metric
and imperial units on the label.
>
> A cup of liquid is completely useless, a ridiculous measuring system
> that makes US recipes quite hard to follow, especially when it's used
> for dry ingredients,

My recipe for ice cream uses 2/3 cup of sugar. I don't even need to
measure it. down pat.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 4/1/2022 2:54 AM, ogden wrote:
> sweller wrote:
>> Ace wrote:
>>
>>> A cup of liquid is completely useless, a ridiculous measuring system
>>> that makes US recipes quite hard to follow, especially when it's used
>>> for dry ingredients,
>>
>> This.
>
> It still amazes me, when I see this discussed on places like Reddit, when yanks defend the use of cups in recipes on the basis that "not everyone has scales". As if it's still 1850 and a set of scales is still a big bulky metal thing with separate weights, and not a little electronic slab costing about a fiver.

After 26 years of living in this house, I still don't own any kitchen
scales. Never needed them. I have a set of balancing scales (of justice)
in the basement that I got for dealing drugs, but they've been gathering
dust for eons.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 5:54:25 AM UTC-4, ogden wrote:

> It still amazes me, when I see this discussed on places like Reddit, when yanks defend the use of cups in recipes on the basis that "not everyone has scales". As if it's still 1850 and a set of scales is still a big bulky metal thing with separate weights, and not a little electronic slab costing about a fiver.

<small voice>

I quite like the cup measure thing. I can't articulate why, but I can say that when I cook or bake using a recipe organized in cups and spoons it always turns out alright. Perhaps I'm more talented in the kitchen than other people.

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 04:54:57 -0700 (PDT), Ben Blaney
<benblaney@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 5:54:25 AM UTC-4, ogden wrote:
>
>> It still amazes me, when I see this discussed on places like Reddit, when yanks defend the use of cups in recipes on the basis that "not everyone has scales". As if it's still 1850 and a set of scales is still a big bulky metal thing with separate weights, and not a little electronic slab costing about a fiver.
>
><small voice>
>
>I quite like the cup measure thing. I can't articulate why, but I can say that when I cook or bake using a recipe organized in cups and spoons it always turns out alright.

Well yes, the recipes are designed that way. The problem occurs on;y
when trying to follow a yank recipe using modern equipment. It's a
hell of a lot easier when making, for example, a cake, to simply add
the ingredients to a single mixing bowl in their turn, using the same
electronic scales for each one, than measuring each one out in a
seperate measure, potentially having to clean it off each time you
switch between liquids and dry ingredients, and using still more
obscure measures as well, like half a 'stick' of butter.

>Perhaps I'm more talented in the kitchen than other people.

Haha. Some of us have seen you in a kitchen, you know...

(OK, I guess domestic life may have changed you, but let's not let
that get in the way of a stereotype, eh?)

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 03:59:05 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/31/2022 11:34 PM, Ace wrote:

>> The only one of those that os vaguely useful is th fathom, that you
>> call the "wingspan". It is indeed useful for measuring rope - quite a
>> niche usage, but invaluable in some situations when sailing.
>>
>A fathom is a depth measurement, which I rarely, if ever, use.

It used to be used for depths, for sure, but these days they're always
quoted in metres, and nobody, anywhere, uses a line and lead for depth
meauring any more. In fact it's always been a measure of length,

>A wingspan, however, is useful for rope, cable, line and occasional stuff
>outside.

Quite so. I don't actually think of it as a fathom, but I know it's
six feet, so with a little bit of slack I can quite easily measure a
line in metres with a pretty good accuracy.

>I use a handspan even more often around the house.

You don't own a tape measure?

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 01/04/2022 09:55, Sqirrel99 wrote:
> YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 01/04/2022 07:34, Ace wrote:
>>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:26:23 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A cup of liquid is completely useless, a ridiculous measuring system
>>> that makes US recipes quite hard to follow, especially when it's used
>>> for dry ingredients,
>>
>> Indeed, but I do keep a "cup" just for such emergencies.
>>
>> Anyone able to work out what a gill is?
>
> Three doubles.
>
Ah, two fingers

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 4/1/2022 7:20 AM, Ace wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 03:59:05 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I use a handspan even more often around the house.
>
> You don't own a tape measure?
>
At least 3 of them but they're down in the basement, in the office
drawer, or in the garage. If it's just a ballpark measurement...

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 08:34:11 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:26:23 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I don't know how many others have learned their body parts. My handspan
>>is 9", my wingspan is 6', my crotch is a yard off the ground. think I
>>could estimate a lb weight, and a cup of liquid. Metric, I'd have to
>>study up.
>
>The only one of those that os vaguely useful is th fathom, that you
>call the "wingspan". It is indeed useful for measuring rope - quite a
>niche usage, but invaluable in some situations when sailing.

For human body measuring, my outstretched left hand holding a line or
electrical cable in my fingertips,, to right nipple, is about 1 metre.

--

-Pip

Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote in news:debe4h5dih3jbk1pkig6b8a941im1hbf10
@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 08:34:11 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:26:23 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I don't know how many others have learned their body parts. My handspan
>>>is 9", my wingspan is 6', my crotch is a yard off the ground. think I
>>>could estimate a lb weight, and a cup of liquid. Metric, I'd have to
>>>study up.
>>
>>The only one of those that os vaguely useful is th fathom, that you
>>call the "wingspan". It is indeed useful for measuring rope - quite a
>>niche usage, but invaluable in some situations when sailing.
>
> For human body measuring, my outstretched left hand holding a line or
> electrical cable in my fingertips,, to right nipple, is about 1 metre.
>
>

so 3 foot to the middle one, and a fathom from left to right hand?

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 17:40:38 -0000 (UTC), wessie
<willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

>Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote in news:debe4h5dih3jbk1pkig6b8a941im1hbf10
>@4ax.com:
>
>> For human body measuring, my outstretched left hand holding a line or
>> electrical cable in my fingertips,, to right nipple, is about 1 metre.
>>
>>
>
>so 3 foot to the middle one,

I'm nor Scaramanga, you know.

--

-Pip

On 01/04/2022 15:15, Ace wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 04:54:57 -0700 (PDT), Ben Blaney
> <benblaney@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 5:54:25 AM UTC-4, ogden wrote:
>>
>>> It still amazes me, when I see this discussed on places like Reddit, when yanks defend the use of cups in recipes on the basis that "not everyone has scales". As if it's still 1850 and a set of scales is still a big bulky metal thing with separate weights, and not a little electronic slab costing about a fiver.
>>
>> <small voice>
>>
>> I quite like the cup measure thing. I can't articulate why, but I can say that when I cook or bake using a recipe organized in cups and spoons it always turns out alright.
>
> Well yes, the recipes are designed that way. The problem occurs on;y
> when trying to follow a yank recipe using modern equipment. It's a
> hell of a lot easier when making, for example, a cake, to simply add
> the ingredients to a single mixing bowl in their turn, using the same
> electronic scales for each one, than measuring each one out in a
> seperate measure, potentially having to clean it off each time you
> switch between liquids and dry ingredients, and using still more
> obscure measures as well, like half a 'stick' of butter.

Surely everyone has one of these in their kitchen?
<https://www.johnlewis.com/tala-1960-cooks-dry-measuring-cup/p231339404>

The main advantage over the mixing bowl approach is that if you
accidentally put too much in you can simply tip it back into the packet.

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 09:23:18 +0100, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
wrote:

>Anyone able to work out what a gill is?

A quarter of a pint.
--
Salad Dodger
1690 FLHTK;GL1800D
Previously ...
CB1300SA8;GL1800A6;GL1500SEV;CBR1100XXX;
CBR1000FL;CBX1000Z;GPz750R;Z750E1;Z650C2;
KH500A8;KH250B3;TS250c;TS185c.