On 2021-09-13 23:46:22 +0000, Rob said:

> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2021-09-13 04:12, Rob wrote:
>>
>>> Stamps do not even have their monetary value on them anymore, they
>>> are just "stamp for mailing a letter" because the price is increasing
>>> all the time (on the other hand that means you can save some money
>>> by keeping a stock).
>>
>> The price of stamps goes up because of inflation.
>
> Of course, it always did. But now it also goes up because of decreasing
> demand. As I explained before: the stamp price appears to be calculated
> from the desired turnover and the expected number of letters sent.
> That is sort of reasonable, because below a certain number of letters
> sent the total cost of the system does not depend much on the number
> of letters sent.

The prices also go up because ot moronically silly decisions by post
company management.

Thney always complain about demand going down, yet here in New Zealand
the idiots in management decided ...
1. to buy a load of electric mail delivery vehicles (similar to
a van version of a golf cart) to replace the postman's peddle
bikes. Many times more expensive and continual cost to keep
recharging them.

2. and now they've "rebranded", which means an expensive payout
to a marketing company, plus changing all their signage,
letterheads, delivery vehicle paint work, etc.

:-\

>> So whether you bought stamps 5 years ago when your money was worth more,
>> or buy the stamps now when your money is worth less, it all washes out
>> in the end.
>> I buy rolls of 100 stamps. Last for years.
>
> Before this "stamp for mailing a letter" thing was introduced here,
> we had stamps with a monetary value and a tariff list for each service
> (sending a card, a letter, printed matter, etc).
> When you had bought 50c stamps and the rate for a letter was increased
> to 55c, you had to buy separate 5c stamps to be able to use your
> existing stock of 50c stamps.

Over recent years, I have noticed some people using stamps from their
stamp collections. A letter arrives with multiple stamps on them to
make the current postage value, some being things like Christmas 1970
stamp issues.

> Now, you can buy stamps and use them 5 years later, at a time when
> they cost a lot more when bought new.
> (and believe me, the rate at which they increase is much much higher
> than the interest on your bank account)

Could be a good idea ... here in New Zealand I could stockpile
KiwiStamps (which do not have a monetary value printed on them) and
then resell them in five years time when post prices have risen. Even
undercutting the then NZ Post prices I might still make a profit bigger
then regular bank interest rates.

Of course, it's a bit of a gamble that there will actually still be a
postal system by then. The management at NZ Post keep saying letter
post is declining dramatically (while parcel delivery is going up
dramatically, partly due to Covid lockdown deliveries of internet
shopping purchases).

>> (Of course if you had inside knowledge that the price was about to go
>> up, that would be a different thing.)
>
> The knowledge that the price is about to go up is not exactly well
> hidden, maybe the knowledge by how much it is going up this time.

New Zealand Post always says that they will be raising the stamp price
on, for example, "1 July". So everyone rushes out beforehand to buy the
boxes of KiwiStamps.

On 9/13/2021 5:07 PM, Rob wrote:

> During the entire time the Euro has been in circulatoon, over 15
> years now, I have never had a note of more than 50 euro in my
> posession, and the past 3 years or so never more than 20 euro.
> Because amounts larger than 50 euro are never paid in cash.

Many of the stores in my area won't accept any cash over a $20 bill US.

> Addressed junk mail is on the way down here, and unaddressed mail can
> be rejected using a standard sticker on your mailbox, which most
> people have.

Don't I wish I had such a sticker. But on the other hand I still get
mail delivered to my house mailbox. Newer subdivisions now have
community mailboxes which are a PITA. So if junk mail pays for my
private delivery I guess I shouldn't complain.

> The postal system is not a government controlled operation here, it
> is just a commercial company.

Here the PO is a government agency but isn't supposed to use any
taxpayer funds.

> But such a system cannot operate based on the requirements of just a
> small group of users...

Commercial radio and TV still survives on ads. Maybe the PO too?

> (and even there, the fixed-line Phone network is mostly being
> replaced by the mobile network.

Yup. I got rid of my landline awhile back and now only use mobile(s).

> and the "fixed lines" that remain more and more are VoIP service on
> internet)

My original landline here (20 years ago) was still twisted pair but only
to the local neighborhood box. My cable company landline was VoIP of course.

On 14/09/2021 01.38, Rob wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think the reason that bank account numbers can't be moved is that they
>> are linked to a physical branch.
>
> But that used to be the same for telephone numbers, which described
> the extension's location in the hierarchy of exchanges.
>
> However today the numbers are first looked up in a number location
> database and that can route the call to any operator of any exchange.

It is a bit complicated in land line telephone...

- first the call goes to where it would originally be.
- that exchange says "it is not here anymore".
- the call is goes back and then rerouted to another exchange that can
do database queries. The number gets prefixed with another number (five
digits?) that tells the current location.
- the call is finally rerouted to the current location.

All because the number system was not originally designed as
"intelligent" and "movable".

>
> The same could be done for bank numbers, it is only the banks that
> do not want it, and the stupid financial authority that allowed that.

Maybe. Almost anything can be done if really wanted.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>> Probably we are a bit ahead of the curve
>>> due to wide adoption of new technology.

>> That’s very arguable with poor adoption of apple pay etc.

> Adaption of technology is not the same as adaption of US technology!

Its actually better technology than your current technology.

>> How does the dearth of a decent postal
>> service affect the elderly who find it much
>> harder to communicate electronically ?

> But they don't...

Corse they do if they don’t know how to do it
electronically or find it more difficult than by post.

> the elderly find it convenient to be able to communicate
> (and order things) from the safety of their homes instead
> of having to go on the street. Especially in winter.

Only if they find electronic communication easier.

Many don’t, even with the most simple like SMSs.

>>> But I think it will happen everwhere.

>> Change certainly will but I cant see the postal service
>> dying completely any time soon. Or the use of cash either.

> Cash will probably die sooner than the postal system, yes.

Yes, because the postal system will continue
forever because of parcel delivery.

Cant see cash disappearing any time soon either,
particularly for kids and some of the elderly and
the dregs of society that use cash for casual work
etc and illegal activity like illegal drugs.

> Other European countries are further ahead in that.
> We already entered the phase where posession of
> large amounts of (and large denominations of) cash is
> considered suspicious and likely to point to criminal activity.

But not with normal amounts.

> During the entire time the Euro has been in circulatoon,
> over 15 years now, I have never had a note of more than
> 50 euro in my posession, and the past 3 years or so never
> more than 20 euro.

But you aren't one of the dinosaurs
who prefer the anonymity of cash.

I'm not either and only use cash for garage/yard/car
boot sales even tho I can pay those using my phone.
Its not worth holding things up convincing the seller
that it’s as good as cash and isn't for some of those.

> Because amounts larger than 50
> euro are never paid in cash.

I don’t believe that with stuff like illegal drugs
or stuff like second hand bikes. cars etc or
even stuff like casual labor to avoid having
to pay tax on that transaction.

>>> The postal system is a labor-intensive system for a
>>> purpose that is being replaced by other technologies,

>> Yes, but that clearly hasn’t stopped the massive boom
>> in the parcel service where that is even more the case.

> Ok but let's be clear: I am only talking about
> the letter system and not the parcel system.
> These are completely separate things here.

That isn't the case in very many other places at all.

>>> and in an economic system that can only flourish in the
>>> presence of growth, it gets in a rapid downward spiral.

>> That clearly isn't true of junk mail.

> Maybe in the US?

Not just in the US.

> Addressed junk mail is on the way down here, and
> unaddressed mail can be rejected using a standard
> sticker on your mailbox, which most people have.

Irrelevant to those that don’t and still provide a
significant revenue stream for the postal service.

>>> Stamps do not even have their monetary value on them
>>> anymore, they are just "stamp for mailing a letter" because
>>> the price is increasing all the time (on the other hand that
>>> means you can save some money by keeping a stock).

>> Our price doesn’t, because the federal govt has
>> to approve the increase in the price of the stamp.

> The postal system is not a government controlled
> operation here, it is just a commercial company.

That’s rare world wide.

> That originates back in the day that the neoliberals
> believed that any state companies had to be split
> and sold off, because operating things commercially
> was so much more efficient and cheaper for the user.
> Of course it wasn't, but this move (partly mandated
> by the EU) was never turned back.

The EU has never mandated the selling off
of all postal services in member states.

> Before this, most European countries had a state-operated company
> for Post, Telegraphy and Telephone. That was then split in a
> Post and a Telecom company, and competition was allowed on each
> of those. So we got the Post companies from other countries and
> some new private operations competing in an ever shrinking market.

> In Telecom that worked slightly better as that was an
> expanding market, but still we had some undesirable
> effects as a result, it still means the internet speed
> we can get is lower than it could be in some areas.

We had that even before the telecoms service was privatised.

>>> I think the postal system will go the same way
>>> as the steam locomotive and the tow barge.

>> I doubt it, because everyone doesn’t have
>> some way of communicating electronically.

> But such a system cannot operate based on
> the requirements of just a small group of users...

Corse it can if its part of the parcel service.

> The Telegram and Telex services also ceased to be.

Sure, but that’s a different issue.

>>> Things that were established when there was a
>>> demand, and phased out when the demand ceased.

>> But demand wont cease with a postal
>> service. In fact its booming with parcels.

> As mentioned above, I am discussing letter service.

In most jurisdictions they are provided by the one service.

> Parcel service is booming, but it is a different operation.
> Compare it to Telex vs Phone service. We have no Telex
> network anymore, but we do have a Phone network.

In fact two, the landline and mobile phone service.

> (and even there, the fixed-line Phone network is mostly being
> replaced by the mobile network. and the "fixed lines" that
> remain more and more are VoIP service on internet)

Sure, but its still a phone service done differently.

On 13/09/2021 23.32, 72y33 wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>> On 13/09/2021 22.17, 72y33 wrote:
>>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>> On 13/09/2021 14.28, Mayayana wrote:
>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> | >> Having a minor working is considered an abuse and the employer
>>>>> could be
>>>>> | >> jailed.
>>>>> | >
>>>>> | > Really?! No one can get a job before they're 18? Not even casual
>>>>> work?
>>>>> |
>>>>> | Really. One exception: kid actors, and with a strict regulation,
>>>>> they
>>>>> | can not miss classes. Means that a theatrical spectacle with two
>>>>> | sessions a day need double (or more) kid cast.
>>>>> |
>>>>>    That's a good one. You can't mow lawns, but you can be in
>>>>> a movie where sex addicts get chopped to bits by a psychotic,
>>>>> pedophile Nazi. :)
>>>>
>>>> LOL
>>>>
>>>> I'm almost sure that children are mostly shielded from the actual
>>>> content of the movie, and they find out years later what they really
>>>> did :-D
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> | It wasn't always this way. When I was a kid, the sons of a shop
>>>>> owner
>>>>> | would work there, albeit often for free. Learning the job. A pal of
>>>>> mine
>>>>> | worked as a waiter at the family hotel/restaurant, for free
>>>>> AFAIK. The
>>>>> | money went into the family pocket, being able to keep the hotel
>>>>> running.
>>>>> |
>>>>> | However, the culture was that if a minor worked, it meant that the
>>>>> | family was poor. Often it would be considered a disgrace and
>>>>> dishonour
>>>>> | to the family, if it was not the family business and, for example,
>>>>> mowed
>>>>> | the grass on the neighbourhood or waited at a restaurant.
>>>>> |
>>>>>
>>>>>   I wonder if that's more a class thing? In the US, rich kids
>>>>> are likely to be making connections rather than working.
>>>>> They might spend their time doing things like sailing with other
>>>>> rich kids. There isn't an expectation that they'd ever be required
>>>>> to do actual labor.
>>>>>
>>>>>   But for the average kid, a job is a way to be independent and
>>>>> learn about the idea of making their own living. My first job was
>>>>> at 13. I worked for old ladies, cleaning their houses and doing
>>>>> minor repairs. Then I had a paper route. Then McDonalds hired
>>>>> me. (Illegal, technically, because I wasn't quite 16. But work, in the
>>>>> US, is next to godliness. Any authorities who caught me would have
>>>>> thought I was a good kid with healthy ambition. The US has been
>>>>> heavily affected by Christian sexual perversion from both the Puritan
>>>>> and Catholic streams. If you're working you can't be masturbating
>>>>> or indulging in sensual pleasures.)
>>>>
>>>> I'm familiar with the reasoning in other countries.
>>>>
>>>> But the reasoning here when children work was allowed was that if the
>>>> son was working, the father (no talk of the mother) was a useless man
>>>> not able to support his family, it would be a shame on all of them.
>>>> Worse if it was a girl.
>>>>
>>>> The exception was working on the family business: that was learning the
>>>> family business.
>>>>
>>>> I remember when my mother, who was a teacher before marrying, wanted to
>>>> go back to school when I was about 12 or 14, that my father was very
>>>> angry and there were rows for the first time at home. And he was much
>>>> more modern, tolerant and "European" than average, imagine a typical
>>>> macho man.
>>>>
>>>> Years later, they were both happy about my mother decision, but at the
>>>> time it was a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Neither of them would accept me having a job, "wasting time working
>>>> at a
>>>> job" instead of studying full time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another factor here against teenagers working is that they steal jobs
>>>> from grown ups supporting a family. The teenager may work for a little
>>>> money that can not pay the cost of living on his own, would be seen in
>>>> bad light, similar to paperless inmigrants. In a country where we have
>>>> close to 20% unemployment, that's important.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What is normal in a country can be bonkers in another country, and we
>>>> have to accept that. Learn and accept the differences ;-)
>>>
>>> Or realise that it makes no sense to ban kids from working.
>>
>> That will not happen. It makes full sense to us. It is you who are
>> bonkers. :-P
>>
>> And it happens to be in agreement with the UN recommendations or
>> decisions.
>
> There never has been any UN recommendation or decision that no kids
> should ever be allowed to do any work like baby sitting, dog walking,
> washing cars, lawn mowing or working in their parent's business or farm.

Oh, yes, the UN said "kid no work". It is up to the legislation to
define "no work". Rather than a complex definition prone to abuse, say
"absolutely no work". Deal. Done.
>
>>> There is a reason you lot have a 20% unemployment rate
>>> and better organised countries don’t.
>>
>> LOL
>
>

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote
> Rob wrote
>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
>>> Rob wrote

>>>> Stamps do not even have their monetary value on them anymore, they
>>>> are just "stamp for mailing a letter" because the price is increasing
>>>> all the time (on the other hand that means you can save some money
>>>> by keeping a stock).
>>>
>>> The price of stamps goes up because of inflation.
>>
>> Of course, it always did. But now it also goes up because of decreasing
>> demand. As I explained before: the stamp price appears to be calculated
>> from the desired turnover and the expected number of letters sent.
>> That is sort of reasonable, because below a certain number of letters
>> sent the total cost of the system does not depend much on the number
>> of letters sent.
>
> The prices also go up because ot moronically silly decisions by post
> company management.
>
> Thney always complain about demand going down, yet here in New Zealand the
> idiots in management decided ...

> 1. to buy a load of electric mail delivery vehicles (similar to a van
> version of a golf cart) to replace the postman's peddle bikes.

Jeezus, we haven't used peddle bikes for more than 50 years.

We use small motorbikes. Australia.

> Many times more expensive and continual cost to keep recharging
> them.

> 2. and now they've "rebranded", which means an expensive payout
> to a marketing company, plus changing all their signage,
> letterheads, delivery vehicle paint work, etc.

> :-\
>
>
>
>>> So whether you bought stamps 5 years ago when your money was worth more,
>>> or buy the stamps now when your money is worth less, it all washes out
>>> in the end.
>>> I buy rolls of 100 stamps. Last for years.
>>
>> Before this "stamp for mailing a letter" thing was introduced here,
>> we had stamps with a monetary value and a tariff list for each service
>> (sending a card, a letter, printed matter, etc).
>> When you had bought 50c stamps and the rate for a letter was increased
>> to 55c, you had to buy separate 5c stamps to be able to use your
>> existing stock of 50c stamps.
>
> Over recent years, I have noticed some people using stamps from their
> stamp collections. A letter arrives with multiple stamps on them to make
> the current postage value, some being things like Christmas 1970 stamp
> issues.
>
>
>
>> Now, you can buy stamps and use them 5 years later, at a time when
>> they cost a lot more when bought new.
>> (and believe me, the rate at which they increase is much much higher
>> than the interest on your bank account)
>
> Could be a good idea ... here in New Zealand I could stockpile KiwiStamps
> (which do not have a monetary value printed on them) and then resell them
> in five years time when post prices have risen. Even undercutting the then
> NZ Post prices I might still make a profit bigger then regular bank
> interest rates.
>
> Of course, it's a bit of a gamble that there will actually still be a
> postal system by then. The management at NZ Post keep saying letter post
> is declining dramatically (while parcel delivery is going up dramatically,
> partly due to Covid lockdown deliveries of internet shopping purchases).
>
>
>
>>> (Of course if you had inside knowledge that the price was about to go
>>> up, that would be a different thing.)
>>
>> The knowledge that the price is about to go up is not exactly well
>> hidden, maybe the knowledge by how much it is going up this time.
>
> New Zealand Post always says that they will be raising the stamp price on,
> for example, "1 July". So everyone rushes out beforehand to buy the boxes
> of KiwiStamps.

On 9/13/2021 3:13 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote

>>> But plenty with no HOA haven't turned into a ghetto.

>> Worldwide? Definitely a true statement.

> Given that no one else is actually stupid enough to have HOAs that
> can tell you that you can't leave a hose on the tap when not in
> use.

We're up to around 6000+ homes here now so there are a few others
besides me that will put up with a little BS to live in a nice place.

>> Locally? Not so much...

> That's bullshit.

Ah. You know my locale then. You from my old neighborhood by any chance?

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
> On 13/09/2021 23.32, 72y33 wrote:
>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>> On 13/09/2021 22.17, 72y33 wrote:
>>>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>> On 13/09/2021 14.28, Mayayana wrote:
>>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> | >> Having a minor working is considered an abuse and the employer
>>>>>> could be
>>>>>> | >> jailed.
>>>>>> | >
>>>>>> | > Really?! No one can get a job before they're 18? Not even casual
>>>>>> work?
>>>>>> |
>>>>>> | Really. One exception: kid actors, and with a strict regulation,
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> | can not miss classes. Means that a theatrical spectacle with two
>>>>>> | sessions a day need double (or more) kid cast.
>>>>>> |
>>>>>> That's a good one. You can't mow lawns, but you can be in
>>>>>> a movie where sex addicts get chopped to bits by a psychotic,
>>>>>> pedophile Nazi. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm almost sure that children are mostly shielded from the actual
>>>>> content of the movie, and they find out years later what they really
>>>>> did :-D
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> | It wasn't always this way. When I was a kid, the sons of a shop
>>>>>> owner
>>>>>> | would work there, albeit often for free. Learning the job. A pal of
>>>>>> mine
>>>>>> | worked as a waiter at the family hotel/restaurant, for free
>>>>>> AFAIK. The
>>>>>> | money went into the family pocket, being able to keep the hotel
>>>>>> running.
>>>>>> |
>>>>>> | However, the culture was that if a minor worked, it meant that the
>>>>>> | family was poor. Often it would be considered a disgrace and
>>>>>> dishonour
>>>>>> | to the family, if it was not the family business and, for example,
>>>>>> mowed
>>>>>> | the grass on the neighbourhood or waited at a restaurant.
>>>>>> |
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if that's more a class thing? In the US, rich kids
>>>>>> are likely to be making connections rather than working.
>>>>>> They might spend their time doing things like sailing with other
>>>>>> rich kids. There isn't an expectation that they'd ever be required
>>>>>> to do actual labor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But for the average kid, a job is a way to be independent and
>>>>>> learn about the idea of making their own living. My first job was
>>>>>> at 13. I worked for old ladies, cleaning their houses and doing
>>>>>> minor repairs. Then I had a paper route. Then McDonalds hired
>>>>>> me. (Illegal, technically, because I wasn't quite 16. But work, in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> US, is next to godliness. Any authorities who caught me would have
>>>>>> thought I was a good kid with healthy ambition. The US has been
>>>>>> heavily affected by Christian sexual perversion from both the Puritan
>>>>>> and Catholic streams. If you're working you can't be masturbating
>>>>>> or indulging in sensual pleasures.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm familiar with the reasoning in other countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the reasoning here when children work was allowed was that if the
>>>>> son was working, the father (no talk of the mother) was a useless man
>>>>> not able to support his family, it would be a shame on all of them.
>>>>> Worse if it was a girl.
>>>>>
>>>>> The exception was working on the family business: that was learning
>>>>> the
>>>>> family business.
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember when my mother, who was a teacher before marrying, wanted
>>>>> to
>>>>> go back to school when I was about 12 or 14, that my father was very
>>>>> angry and there were rows for the first time at home. And he was much
>>>>> more modern, tolerant and "European" than average, imagine a typical
>>>>> macho man.
>>>>>
>>>>> Years later, they were both happy about my mother decision, but at the
>>>>> time it was a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Neither of them would accept me having a job, "wasting time working
>>>>> at a
>>>>> job" instead of studying full time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another factor here against teenagers working is that they steal jobs
>>>>> from grown ups supporting a family. The teenager may work for a little
>>>>> money that can not pay the cost of living on his own, would be seen in
>>>>> bad light, similar to paperless inmigrants. In a country where we have
>>>>> close to 20% unemployment, that's important.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What is normal in a country can be bonkers in another country, and we
>>>>> have to accept that. Learn and accept the differences ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Or realise that it makes no sense to ban kids from working.
>>>
>>> That will not happen. It makes full sense to us. It is you who are
>>> bonkers. :-P
>>>
>>> And it happens to be in agreement with the UN recommendations or
>>> decisions.
>>
>> There never has been any UN recommendation or decision that no kids
>> should ever be allowed to do any work like baby sitting, dog walking,
>> washing cars, lawn mowing or working in their parent's business or farm.
>
> Oh, yes, the UN said "kid no work".

They never said it that absolutely or the briefly, the UN never does that.

It is up to the legislation to
> define "no work". Rather than a complex definition prone to abuse, say
> "absolutely no work". Deal. Done.

Fraid not.

>>>> There is a reason you lot have a 20% unemployment rate
>>>> and better organised countries don’t.
>>>
>>> LOL

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> But plenty with no HOA haven't turned into a ghetto.

>>> Worldwide? Definitely a true statement.

>> Given that no one else is actually stupid enough to have HOAs that can
>> tell you that you can't leave a hose on the tap when not in use.

> We're up to around 6000+ homes here now so there are a few others
> besides me that will put up with a little BS to live in a nice place.

You don’t have to be in a HOA to live in a nice place.

>>> Locally? Not so much...

>> That's bullshit.

> Ah. You know my locale then.

You didn’t say what you meant by locally.

> You from my old neighborhood by any chance?

Nope.

On 09/13/2021 06:00 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 13/09/2021 23.32, 72y33 wrote:
>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>> On 13/09/2021 22.17, 72y33 wrote:
>>>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>> On 13/09/2021 14.28, Mayayana wrote:
>>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> | >> Having a minor working is considered an abuse and the employer
>>>>>> could be
>>>>>> | >> jailed.
>>>>>> | >
>>>>>> | > Really?! No one can get a job before they're 18? Not even casual
>>>>>> work?
>>>>>> |
>>>>>> | Really. One exception: kid actors, and with a strict regulation,
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> | can not miss classes. Means that a theatrical spectacle with two
>>>>>> | sessions a day need double (or more) kid cast.
>>>>>> |
>>>>>> That's a good one. You can't mow lawns, but you can be in
>>>>>> a movie where sex addicts get chopped to bits by a psychotic,
>>>>>> pedophile Nazi. :)

I just noticed this...

A friend used to teach at a special campus of Malibu High School for for
kid actors. He taught everything to maybe a dozen kids on an individual
basis, almost like tutoring. He did a really good job, according to the
glowing thankyou letters his students received after getting into
Stanford, Yale, etc., but he was a total dunce at doing the required
paperwork and they were too cheap to get him a secretary.

--
Cheers, Bev
Save the whales for dessert

On 2021-09-14 00:45:34 +0000, AJL said:
> On 9/13/2021 5:07 PM, Rob wrote:
>
>> During the entire time the Euro has been in circulatoon, over 15
>> years now, I have never had a note of more than 50 euro in my
>> posession, and the past 3 years or so never more than 20 euro.
>> Because amounts larger than 50 euro are never paid in cash.
>
> Many of the stores in my area won't accept any cash over a $20 bill US.
>
>> Addressed junk mail is on the way down here, and unaddressed mail can
>> be rejected using a standard sticker on your mailbox, which most
>> people have.
>
> Don't I wish I had such a sticker. But on the other hand I still get
> mail delivered to my house mailbox. Newer subdivisions now have
> community mailboxes which are a PITA. So if junk mail pays for my
> private delivery I guess I shouldn't complain.

Those stickers / signs are availabale here in New Zealand. Most junk
mail deliverers take notice, but some simply ignore them. They're also
no real use for unaddressed mail delivered by NZ Post (such as
political pamphlets around election time).

>> The postal system is not a government controlled operation here, it
>> is just a commercial company.
>
> Here the PO is a government agency but isn't supposed to use any
> taxpayer funds.

Similar here for New Zealand Post.

Telecom New Zealand used to be a government-owned company, but was sold
off many years ago. Slightly more recently it was slpit into two
(supposedly) completely companies - Spark for providing landlines,
mobile phone connections, and various internet options, and the
separate Chorus who owns all the exchanges, copper cabnling, fibre
cabling, etc. The split was meant to mean better competition in prices
from the various internet and phone service providers, but as usualy
didn't really achieve much.

>> But such a system cannot operate based on the requirements of just a
>> small group of users...
>
> Commercial radio and TV still survives on ads. Maybe the PO too?

NZ Post does letter and parcel deelivery. They also do courier
deliveries. Plus they do mail drops for the government (local and
national) - things like political parties around election time,
electoral roll confirmation, postal voting papers some public
referendums, etc.

For some idiotic reason New Zealand Post and Telecom New Zealand also
have offices in other countries and does work there too.

>> (and even there, the fixed-line Phone network is mostly being
>> replaced by the mobile network.
>
> Yup. I got rid of my landline awhile back and now only use mobile(s).

I don't have any mobile phone. The other person living here has one,
but we also have a landline phone via a copper line and completely
separate to our internet connection which uses a home 4G modem. We did
get the fibre cabling to the house and the connection box installed for
free a while back as part of the government fibre roll-out, but haven't
signed up for a modem and plan.

>> and the "fixed lines" that remain more and more are VoIP service on
>> internet)
>
> My original landline here (20 years ago) was still twisted pair but only
> to the local neighborhood box. My cable company landline was VoIP of course.

Am 13.09.21 um 20:00 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 13/09/2021 19.51, nospam wrote:
>> what make/model is this 'thing' and are you using a custom rom?
>>
>
> No, I mean I don't like to use Google for money things, like Google pay.
> I might set it up for a trip, for backup, then disable it perhaps.

Same here. Both do not add value. No, they distract privacy.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 9/13/2021 10:11 PM, Your Name wrote:
> On 2021-09-14 00:45:34 +0000, AJL said:

>> I got rid of my landline awhile back and now only use mobile(s).

> I don't have any mobile phone.

Mobile phones are pretty ubiquitous here. Mine is a necessity for me.

> The other person living here has one, but we also have a landline
> phone via a copper line and completely separate to our internet
> connection which uses a home 4G modem.

I still have copper line to and through the house but it's now unused.

> We did get the fibre cabling to the house and the connection box
> installed for free a while back as part of the government fibre
> roll-out, but haven't signed up for a modem and plan.

Fiber to the house, when it comes to the neighborhood, will likely be
installed by a private company. There are 2 ISPs serving my area so I'm
not sure exactly how they will work it out. I'm not looking forward to
it though. My cable 50Mbps, the cheapest speed currently available,
works just fine for me. For fiber they will likely dig up and make a
mess out of my yard (street utility easement) and then charge me more
when it's installed. Can't stop progress though...

On 2021-09-14 06:11:31 +0000, AJL said:

> On 9/13/2021 10:11 PM, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2021-09-14 00:45:34 +0000, AJL said:
>
>>> I got rid of my landline awhile back and now only use mobile(s).
>
>> I don't have any mobile phone.
>
> Mobile phones are pretty ubiquitous here. Mine is a necessity for me.
>
>> The other person living here has one, but we also have a landline
>> phone via a copper line and completely separate to our internet
>> connection which uses a home 4G modem.
>
> I still have copper line to and through the house but it's now unused.

When our house was built they put phone and TV jack points in every
room, except the bathrooms, and there's a switch-hub panel in the
garage.

We will have to ditch the copper landline - partly because New Zealand
is going to drop the services (eventually) and partly because it's
expensive having the two services separate. We currently pay about
NZ$60 per month for the internet and another NZ$60 per month for the
copper landline. I'm not keen on combining them (if the internet is
down, so is your landline!), but it would mean paying just NZ$10 per
month on the internet connection to include VoIP landline, so saving
NZ$50 each month.

>> We did get the fibre cabling to the house and the connection box
>> installed for free a while back as part of the government fibre
>> roll-out, but haven't signed up for a modem and plan.
>
> Fiber to the house, when it comes to the neighborhood, will likely be
> installed by a private company. There are 2 ISPs serving my area so I'm
> not sure exactly how they will work it out. I'm not looking forward to
> it though. My cable 50Mbps, the cheapest speed currently available,
> works just fine for me. For fiber they will likely dig up and make a
> mess out of my yard (street utility easement) and then charge me more
> when it's installed. Can't stop progress though...

Fibre cabling here is being done by contractors to the Chorus phoneline
company ... some contractors are better than others though. Some of
them make a real mess of the installation, and there have been a couple
of cases where they (or someone else) was forced to come back and redo
it.

Our installers wanted to lazily just run the cable along the driveway
fence until I told them to bury it under the pebble edging instead.
It's a long-ish driveway with about six houses, but some of them were
already done a while back, so most of the work was there and our house
only required a fairly short new stretch from an existing connection
point along the fence line and under the drive (via the same cabling
trench the as the copper line) to the house.

The Chorus company owns all the sreet-level phonelines, both copper and
fibre, as well as the exchanges and roadside cabinets, and they simply
"rent" the connections to whichever ISP you choose. The monthly ISP
plan fees includes that cost passed on to the customer.

On 14/09/2021 00:38, Rob wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think the reason that bank account numbers can't be moved is that they
>> are linked to a physical branch.
>
> But that used to be the same for telephone numbers, which described
> the extension's location in the hierarchy of exchanges.
>
> However today the numbers are first looked up in a number location
> database and that can route the call to any operator of any exchange.

Not here for landlines. You can't move your landline outside of its
exhange.

That will be changing soon, I believe, as we're moving to IP telephony
in a couple of years.

Mobile phone numbers can be moved as they've never been linked with a
physical location. I've only ever had one mobile number in over 20 years.

> The same could be done for bank numbers, it is only the banks that
> do not want it, and the stupid financial authority that allowed that.

Is it really such a bother to change bank account numbers? I move my
account about once a year and it's not a huge deal.

On 13/09/2021 20:47, Rod Speed wrote:
> Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote
>> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote
>>> Rob wrote
>
>>>> Here, banks (and lots of other businesses) don't care at all about
>>>> existing customers. Only new customers are important.
>>>
>>> Existing customers often become someone's new customers if the wanted
>>> services are lacking...
>>
>> With the banking system as it is here, that is only a small risk.
>> It is so much effort to move everything to a new bank and new account
>> number,
>
> Minimal effort here particularly if the mortgage is fully paid off.
>
> I did it a lot when they were still paying substantial interest rates.
>
>> and the situation will be the same at that other bank.
>
> That’s wrong too, some do much better than others.
>
> One of mine, which provides a fee free credit card is
> currently the third best rated in the entire country.
>
>> So most customers stay at the same bank for life.
>
> That’s not the case here.

The regulatory authorities in the UK have been trying to persuade
customers to shop around for decades yet we're more likely to get
divorced than change banks:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/sep/07/switching-banks-seven-day

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 14/09/2021 00:38, Rob wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think the reason that bank account numbers can't be moved is that they
>>> are linked to a physical branch.
>>
>> But that used to be the same for telephone numbers, which described
>> the extension's location in the hierarchy of exchanges.
>>
>> However today the numbers are first looked up in a number location
>> database and that can route the call to any operator of any exchange.
>
> Not here for landlines. You can't move your landline outside of its
> exhange.

Here about 20-25 years ago (I do not remember exactly) the numbering
plan was changed (an extra digit) and from then it became mandatory
for numbers to be portable between providers. So when I have an
existing line at KPN (the incumbent provider) I could ask it to
be migrated to another competing provider.
With that in place, it also became easy to migrate numbers between
exchanges of the same provider. Formally only when the number is
in the same region, but e.g. when moving within a city and its suburbs
one can keep the same number.
With the move to VoIP it has become even easier. I have migrated
my fixed number to a VoIP account, and when I now would move to another
area in the country I would not have to tell anyone and can just keep
that number. Formally when I tell the provider they would still have
to change it to a new number local to my new address, but I think most
of the providers no longer bother.
It is also possible to get a "location independent number" that you
can take wherever you like.

>> The same could be done for bank numbers, it is only the banks that
>> do not want it, and the stupid financial authority that allowed that.
>
> Is it really such a bother to change bank account numbers? I move my
> account about once a year and it's not a huge deal.

All direct debit accounts would have to be changed, and the linkage
between the account number and savings account(s) at other banks.
Plus, like a phone number or e-mail address, others may have your number
on file and use it at an unpredictable moment. It is impossible to
inform everyone.

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> The prices also go up because ot moronically silly decisions by post
> company management.
>
> Thney always complain about demand going down, yet here in New Zealand
> the idiots in management decided ...
> 1. to buy a load of electric mail delivery vehicles (similar to
> a van version of a golf cart) to replace the postman's peddle
> bikes. Many times more expensive and continual cost to keep
> recharging them.
>
> 2. and now they've "rebranded", which means an expensive payout
> to a marketing company, plus changing all their signage,
> letterheads, delivery vehicle paint work, etc.
>
> :-\

Here the government made some silly decisions as well... originally
there was only a single company authorized to deliver letters (we
always had several different companies delivering packages).
But some time ago the government decided that it would be a good idea
to allow competition on this market. Companies from abroad and newly
started companies started to compete, each sending out their own
delivery persons. For practical reasons they only did commercial
mail, like invoices and other business communication. That of course
further cut into the economy of scale for the incumbent company, and
it took only a couple of years for this system to blow up.
(ending in some takeovers and some companies terminating activity)

Completely ridiculous operation in a shrinking market, but the neoliberals
think their system is the best so they still enforced it...

> Over recent years, I have noticed some people using stamps from their
> stamp collections. A letter arrives with multiple stamps on them to
> make the current postage value, some being things like Christmas 1970
> stamp issues.

That cannot be done here, because we changed currency from the Guilder
to the Euro and after 10 years the original Guilder stamps became
invalid for postage use.
We still can use the older Euro stamps with a value, but in that case
you need to affix the stamps up to the amount a new stamp currently
costs. So often with one or two letters you go through your whole
supply of old stamps :-)

On 14/09/2021 02.07, Rob wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Probably we are a bit ahead of the curve
>>> due to wide adoption of new technology.
>>
>> That’s very arguable with poor adoption of apple pay etc.
>
> Adaption of technology is not the same as adaption of US technology!
>
>> How does the dearth of a decent postal service affect
>> the elderly who find it much harder to communicate
>> electronically ?
>
> But they don't... the elderly find it convenient to be able
> to communicate (and order things) from the safety of their homes
> instead of having to go on the street. Especially in winter.
>
>>> But I think it will happen everwhere.
>>
>> Change certainly will but I cant see the postal service
>> dying completely any time soon. Or the use of cash either.
>
> Cash will probably die sooner than the postal system, yes.
> Other European countries are further ahead in that.
> We already entered the phase where posession of large amounts of
> (and large denominations of) cash is considered suspicious and likely
> to point to criminal activity. During the entire time the Euro
> has been in circulatoon, over 15 years now, I have never had a
> note of more than 50 euro in my posession,

No?

> and the past 3 years
> or so never more than 20 euro. Because amounts larger than 50
> euro are never paid in cash.

I had a few 500€ notes once. I took photos :-D

I had 50€ notes pretty often.

>>> The postal system is a labor-intensive system for a
>>> purpose that is being replaced by other technologies,
>>
>> Yes, but that clearly hasn’t stopped the massive boom
>> in the parcel service where that is even more the case.
>
> Ok but let's be clear: I am only talking about the letter system
> and not the parcel system. These are completely separate things here.

Ah? In Spain the post office does both letters and parcels.

>>> and in an economic system that can only flourish in the
>>> presence of growth, it gets in a rapid downward spiral.
>>
>> That clearly isn't true of junk mail.
>
> Maybe in the US? Addressed junk mail is on the way down here,
> and unaddressed mail can be rejected using a standard sticker
> on your mailbox, which most people have.

That sticker would be ignored here.

What works, on buildings of flats with a concierge on duty at the door,
is that they are not allowed inside and have to deliver their papers to
a common box where the residents can pick them if they want.

They also have a nuisance custom, which is to leave the leaflets half in
the box, sticking half out, so that any passer by can notice how many
days you have not picked the mail because you are not home.

>>> Stamps do not even have their monetary value on them
>>> anymore, they are just "stamp for mailing a letter" because
>>> the price is increasing all the time (on the other hand that
>>> means you can save some money by keeping a stock).
>>
>> Our price doesn’t, because the federal govt has
>> to approve the increase in the price of the stamp.
>
> The postal system is not a government controlled operation here,
> it is just a commercial company. That originates back in the day
> that the neoliberals believed that any state companies had to be
> split and sold off, because operating things commercially was so
> much more efficient and cheaper for the user. Of course it wasn't,
> but this move (partly mandated by the EU) was never turned back.
>

Yeah :-(

> Before this, most European countries had a state-operated company
> for Post, Telegraphy and Telephone. That was then split in a
> Post and a Telecom company, and competition was allowed on each
> of those. So we got the Post companies from other countries and
> some new private operations competing in an ever shrinking market.
>
> In Telecom that worked slightly better as that was an expanding
> market, but still we had some undesirable effects as a result,
> it still means the internet speed we can get is lower than it could
> be in some areas.
>
>>> I think the postal system will go the same way
>>> as the steam locomotive and the tow barge.
>>
>> I doubt it, because everyone doesn’t have
>> some way of communicating electronically.
>
> But such a system cannot operate based on the requirements of just
> a small group of users...
> The Telegram and Telex services also ceased to be.
>

I think we nominally have telegram, but is not actually telegram. I
would have to check.

>>> Things that were established when there was a
>>> demand, and phased out when the demand ceased.
>>
>> But demand wont cease with a postal
>> service. In fact its booming with parcels.
>
> As mentioned above, I am discussing letter service.
> Parcel service is booming, but it is a different operation.
> Compare it to Telex vs Phone service. We have no Telex network
> anymore, but we do have a Phone network.
> (and even there, the fixed-line Phone network is mostly being
> replaced by the mobile network. and the "fixed lines" that remain
> more and more are VoIP service on internet)
>

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 13/09/2021 23.27, Chris wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 13/09/2021 19.51, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <sho2ft$ipt$1@gioia.aioe.org>, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Another neighbour can call the police, when he sees a kid mowing
>>>>>> the grass not at his home.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's un-American!
>>>>
>>>> In my jurisdiction we used to call them neighbor disputes. We had a
>>>> unique police radio code for them which I don't remember now. I've been
>>>> retired for 31 years so things have likely changed a bit anyway. But we
>>>> sure used to get a LOT of calls for them. And for the dumbest things.
>>>> Like family fights they were mostly (but not always) civil in nature but
>>>> police responded anyway to try to keep the peace. So neighbors calling
>>>> the cops to complain about neighbors was definitely an American pastime...
>>>
>>> it just became much more than a pastime in texas, where people can make
>>> $10,000 by reporting their neighbors...
>>>
>>
>> Why? I suppose it means reporting that turns out to be on something big,
>> like the next secret lab of Walter White?
>
> It's far, far worse :(
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58406496

Bonkers. :-(

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 14/09/2021 10.35, Rob wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 14/09/2021 00:38, Rob wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I think the reason that bank account numbers can't be moved is that they
>>>> are linked to a physical branch.
>>>
>>> But that used to be the same for telephone numbers, which described
>>> the extension's location in the hierarchy of exchanges.
>>>
>>> However today the numbers are first looked up in a number location
>>> database and that can route the call to any operator of any exchange.
>>
>> Not here for landlines. You can't move your landline outside of its
>> exhange.
>
> Here about 20-25 years ago (I do not remember exactly) the numbering
> plan was changed (an extra digit) and from then it became mandatory
> for numbers to be portable between providers. So when I have an
> existing line at KPN (the incumbent provider) I could ask it to
> be migrated to another competing provider.
> With that in place, it also became easy to migrate numbers between
> exchanges of the same provider. Formally only when the number is
> in the same region, but e.g. when moving within a city and its suburbs
> one can keep the same number.
> With the move to VoIP it has become even easier. I have migrated
> my fixed number to a VoIP account, and when I now would move to another
> area in the country I would not have to tell anyone and can just keep
> that number. Formally when I tell the provider they would still have
> to change it to a new number local to my new address, but I think most
> of the providers no longer bother.
> It is also possible to get a "location independent number" that you
> can take wherever you like.

That one could also be had previously, but were more expensive. I never
saw one, though. It was an special number, like 901, 902, 903... but I
don't remember the exact one. I thought 905 but google says no.

>>> The same could be done for bank numbers, it is only the banks that
>>> do not want it, and the stupid financial authority that allowed that.
>>
>> Is it really such a bother to change bank account numbers? I move my
>> account about once a year and it's not a huge deal.
>
> All direct debit accounts would have to be changed, and the linkage
> between the account number and savings account(s) at other banks.
> Plus, like a phone number or e-mail address, others may have your number
> on file and use it at an unpredictable moment. It is impossible to
> inform everyone.

When any bank internal application receives an IBAN to do any operation,
it would have to check first it the number had moved, and if so,
transfer to another specialized application to handle that situation,
and if not, continue.

That means reprogramming maybe thousand of existing internal
applications, or routines, or however you want to call them. And on
every bank.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 14/09/2021 09.07, Your Name wrote:

....

> We will have to ditch the copper landline - partly because New Zealand
> is going to drop the services (eventually) and partly because it's
> expensive having the two services separate. We currently pay about NZ$60
> per month for the internet and another NZ$60 per month for the copper
> landline. I'm not keen on combining them (if the internet is down, so is
> your landline!), but it would mean paying just NZ$10 per month on the
> internet connection to include VoIP landline, so saving NZ$50 each month

You also lose service if power goes down. Meaning neighbourhood or just
a fuse at your home.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 14/09/2021 02.43, Your Name wrote:
> On 2021-09-13 23:46:22 +0000, Rob said:

....

>> Before this "stamp for mailing a letter" thing was introduced here,
>> we had stamps with a monetary value and a tariff list for each service
>> (sending a card, a letter, printed matter, etc).
>> When you had bought 50c stamps and the rate for a letter was increased
>> to 55c, you had to buy separate 5c stamps to be able to use your
>> existing stock of 50c stamps.
>
> Over recent years, I have noticed some people using stamps from their
> stamp collections. A letter arrives with multiple stamps on them to make
> the current postage value, some being things like Christmas 1970 stamp
> issues.

My father did that for ages.

Say the fare was 15 pesetas, then raise to 16 pesetas. So he would buy a
bunch of one peseta stamps. A few more raises, and our post could go out
with for or five stamps :-D

I should still have the box somewhere.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 14/09/2021 02.43, Your Name wrote:

....

> The prices also go up because ot moronically silly decisions by post
> company management.
>
> Thney always complain about demand going down, yet here in New Zealand
> the idiots in management decided ...
>   1.  to buy a load of electric mail delivery vehicles (similar to
>       a van version of a golf cart) to replace the postman's peddle
>       bikes. Many times more expensive and continual cost to keep
>       recharging them.

What's a peddle bike? Google insists I'm mistaken and shows "pedal bike"
instead.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> We already entered the phase where posession of large amounts of
>> (and large denominations of) cash is considered suspicious and likely
>> to point to criminal activity. During the entire time the Euro
>> has been in circulatoon, over 15 years now, I have never had a
>> note of more than 50 euro in my posession,
>
> No?

Really! Our ATMs issue only 50, 20 and sometimes 10 euro notes and
so I never had 100, 200 or 500 euro notes, I would have no way to
get them.

>> and the past 3 years
>> or so never more than 20 euro. Because amounts larger than 50
>> euro are never paid in cash.
>
> I had a few 500€ notes once. I took photos :-D
>
> I had 50€ notes pretty often.

500 euro notes are considered "drugs money" here.
When I still paid in cash at the supermarket, I usually had some
50 euro notes. But I stopped doing that, and now I get only some
20 euro notes (and 10 when available, not at my usual ATM unfortunately)
for use for small amounts.
And even that becomes less and less used, as paying small amounts
using the debit card has become possible everywhere.
(in the days when there as a transaction cost, there often was a
minimum amount on debit card payments, but that is gone)

> Ah? In Spain the post office does both letters and parcels.

We have no more post offices! All have been closed years ago.
When we still had them, they were busy places with an ever expanding
number of services.

>> Maybe in the US? Addressed junk mail is on the way down here,
>> and unaddressed mail can be rejected using a standard sticker
>> on your mailbox, which most people have.
>
> That sticker would be ignored here.

That is not a good idea because people can file a complaint when
that happens. Unaddressed mail is usually distributed by a separate
company that gets leaflets from local stores and other advertisements
and makes them into bundles that are put in the mailboxes.
The sticker has 2 fields, one for "local newspapers" (that have some
local news, announcements from the municipality, and of course ads)
and another for pure advertisement material. I only allow the local
newspapers but reject the advertisements. When I get an advertisement
bundle I could call the company distributing it and complain.
Unfortunately what they are starting to do now is combine the different
advertisement flyers in a single "magazine", maybe put a single editorial
article in it, and distribute it as "local newspaper". Bummer.

>> The Telegram and Telex services also ceased to be.
>>
>
> I think we nominally have telegram, but is not actually telegram. I
> would have to check.

Yes we have some service resembling telegram but it is not like
what it was before, a service of the PTT state company. It is more
like those "electronic birthday card" services (Hallmark etc) that also
allow you to request a physical card to be sent to the destination.
I think it is also possible to send a telex to a country where that
still works.