On 15/09/2021 03.25, nospam wrote:
> In article <hdr71ix768.ln2@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Eventually stores will do away with their mag-stripe readers and then
>>>>>> support for Samsung Pay will go away.
>>>>>
>>>>> not for a *very* long time, since there are cards that only have
>>>>> magstripe and will be for the foreseeable future, which means the
>>>>> payment terminals must be able to read them.
>>>>
>>>> I have seen terminals here that can not read magnetic bands. It is
>>>> either chip or contactless.
>>>
>>> then those with cards that have only a magstripe will be shopping
>>> elsewhere.
>>>
>>
>> There are no such cards here.
>
> no gift cards?

ok, but those are not "credit/debit cards".

>
> <https://www.staterbros.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Giftcards_IMG_487
> 6_SB_600x800.jpg>
>
> nearly all gift/prepaid cards do not have chips due to the additional
> cost.
>
> some are specific to one store, while the mastercard/visa/amex prepaid
> cards can be used at any store that accepts those cards.

I have only used gift cards of one store, "El Corte Ingles", and this
one is particular because their own shopping card is magnetic. And it
fails often and has to be replaced often, so much that I don't know why
they don't upgrade to chips.

>
> <https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5c5dbb8de8ba44105ed231ec/
> 1556545928392-8BPIFJDH95ZKAA1NKLDU/visa+gift+card.JPG>
>

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 15/09/2021 09.24, nospam wrote:
>> In article <shs5mp$et6$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I still don't understand why all your bills are
>>> exactly the same size.
>>
>> better fit in wallets.
>>
>>> It must be nightmare for people with poor vision.
>>
>> if their vision is bad enough to where they can't read the money, then
>> they likely aren't shopping alone.
>
> nospam is wrong of course™.
>
> Here, you can see them selling a state raffle run by the blind people
> organization (ONCE), and they are alone. They take bills and coins.

Yes, it may be different in the US but here in EU people with poor
vision are considered to be full-fledged people worthy of living
a normal life.

On 9/14/2021 9:15 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 9/14/2021 8:25 PM, nospam wrote:
>> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>
>>> 50-50 [embossed CC] for me. Amex yes, Visa no...
>
>> for amex, it depends on the card. gold & platinum are flat, whereas
>> the more popular amex everyday and partner cards are embossed.
>
> The Amex site says ALL their cards are embossed.
>
> "American Express®Card security features
>
>  1. All American Express account numbers are embossed and start
> with “37” or “34” "
>
> >https://www.americanexpress.com/content/dam/amex/hk/en/staticassets/merchant/pdf/support-and-services/useful-information-and-downloads/GuidetoCheckingCardFaces.pdf>

Well, as you pointed out, you can't always trust that web sites, or
images, are accurate. I received a Delta Amex a few weeks ago and it is
not embossed.

On Sep 14, 2021, Joerg Lorenz wrote
(in article <shs1mt$mfa$4@dont-email.me>):

> Am 15.09.21 um 04:56 schrieb nospam:
> > In article<shrlgg$fp$1@dont-email.me>, sms<scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > > > Some place still have the old manual carbon copy slider machine
> > > > > (nicknamed a "zip-zap" machine) that require a signature, that's why
> > > > > credit cards still have raised numbers and details. :-)
> > > >
> > > > AFAIK that's credit only. No feedback, risky.
> > >
> > > Most credit cards in the US. no longer have raised numbers.
> >
> > most *do* have raised numbers. the ones that don't are mainly the
> > higher end cards, with a scattering of the lower end cards.
>
> Busllhit!
> Mine is a Gold Card directly from the issuer.

My two Amex cards are embossed, and include NF chips. My Visa, Mastercard, and bank debit/Visa cards are not embossed. My physical GS Apple Mastercard is a smooth, solid metal slab.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

In article <iq091ixulc.ln2@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> >>> then those with cards that have only a magstripe will be shopping
> >>> elsewhere.
> >>>
> >>
> >> There are no such cards here.
> >
> > no gift cards?
>
> ok, but those are not "credit/debit cards".

some are.

it even says 'debit' right on the card:

> > <https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5c5dbb8de8ba44105ed231ec/
> > 1556545928392-8BPIFJDH95ZKAA1NKLDU/visa+gift+card.JPG>
> >

mastercard/visa/amex all offer prepaid debit cards.

usually they have a preset value and once used are discarded, often
called a gift card. some can be reloaded with additional funds.

On Sep 14, 2021, Joerg Lorenz wrote
(in article <shs2hc$s74$1@dont-email.me>):

> Am 15.09.21 um 07:59 schrieb nospam:
> > In article<shs1mt$mfa$4@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz<hugybear@gmx.ch>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > most *do* have raised numbers. the ones that don't are mainly the
> > > > higher end cards, with a scattering of the lower end cards.
> > >
> > > Busllhit!
> > > Mine is a Gold Card directly from the issuer.
> >
> > gold from whom?
> >
> > amex gold is *not* embossed.
>
> BTW: AMEX is totally unpopular here in Europe anyway. Hardly any places
> that accept the cards. Even hotels.

Not in my experience. My Amex Gold has been accepted at hotels in The Netherlands, UK, Belgium, France, Germany, and even the Schweitzerhof, Zurich, and Palace Hotel, Lucerne. None of those countries seemed to be willing to refuse payment via Amex, even hotels.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

Am 15.09.21 um 15:49 schrieb Savageduck:
> On Sep 14, 2021, Joerg Lorenz wrote
> (in article <shs2hc$s74$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> Am 15.09.21 um 07:59 schrieb nospam:
>>> In article<shs1mt$mfa$4@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz<hugybear@gmx.ch>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> most *do* have raised numbers. the ones that don't are mainly the
>>>>> higher end cards, with a scattering of the lower end cards.
>>>>
>>>> Busllhit!
>>>> Mine is a Gold Card directly from the issuer.
>>>
>>> gold from whom?
>>>
>>> amex gold is *not* embossed.
>>
>> BTW: AMEX is totally unpopular here in Europe anyway. Hardly any places
>> that accept the cards. Even hotels.
>
> Not in my experience. My Amex Gold has been accepted at hotels in The Netherlands, UK, Belgium, France, Germany, and even the Schweitzerhof, Zurich, and Palace Hotel, Lucerne. None of those countries seemed to be willing to refuse payment via Amex, even hotels.

10 or 20 years ago? They all ask first whether you have alternatively a
Visa or Master. I have seen that with Amex-cards too many times. And
here in Switzerland Credit Suisse is the only major bank cooperating
with Amexco. My colleagues at CS are all pissed that they are forced to
use them by the bank.
All those leaving CS are giving theirs back and switch.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 15/09/2021 15.48, nospam wrote:
> In article <iq091ixulc.ln2@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> then those with cards that have only a magstripe will be shopping
>>>>> elsewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are no such cards here.
>>>
>>> no gift cards?
>>
>> ok, but those are not "credit/debit cards".
>
> some are.
>
> it even says 'debit' right on the card:
>
>>> <https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5c5dbb8de8ba44105ed231ec/
>>> 1556545928392-8BPIFJDH95ZKAA1NKLDU/visa+gift+card.JPG>
>>>
>
> mastercard/visa/amex all offer prepaid debit cards.
>
> usually they have a preset value and once used are discarded, often
> called a gift card. some can be reloaded with additional funds.
>

I've never seen one.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
> >>>> Maybe in the US? Addressed junk mail is on the way down here,
> >>>> and unaddressed mail can be rejected using a standard sticker
> >>>> on your mailbox, which most people have.
> >>>
> >>> That sticker would be ignored here.
> >>
> >> That is not a good idea because people can file a complaint when
> >> that happens.
> >
> > LOL, not here. No such regulation.
>
> It is a long-existing system. Recently some municipalities even tried
> to reverse the system (to get unaddressed mail you have to have a
> special sticker requesting it, when no sticker the default would be
> no unaddressed mail) but I think it was put on hold.

We - in The Hague - have that system. We actually use the sticker,
because we *want* 'junk'/commercial mail, because we get very little of
it.

BTW, I put one of them no-junk-mail stickers on SWMBO's laptop. Did
not help one damn bit!

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
[...]

> Fiber to the house, when it comes to the neighborhood, will likely be
> installed by a private company. There are 2 ISPs serving my area so I'm
> not sure exactly how they will work it out. I'm not looking forward to
> it though. My cable 50Mbps, the cheapest speed currently available,
> works just fine for me. For fiber they will likely dig up and make a
> mess out of my yard (street utility easement) and then charge me more
> when it's installed. Can't stop progress though...

Will the (HFC) 'cable' go away when they lay fibre to your house or
will it stay (and be useable)?

We have (HFC) 'cable' as well and it's 75Mbps [1] speed serves us fine
as well. We can get upto 1000Mbps if we want, but we don't.

The fibre companies are concentrating on locations where there's only
ADSL (no cable), but they're also putting fibre in the ground when
there are groundworks anyway.

[1] From 2003 to this year, the speed went from 300/64 Kbps to 75/10
Mbps, i.e. a speed increase of a factor 256 (down).

On 9/15/2021 5:54 AM, sms wrote:

<snip>

> Well, as you pointed out, you can't always trust that web sites, or
> images, are accurate. I received a Delta Amex a few weeks ago and it is
> not embossed.

I should also point out they people in the U.S. generally only get an
Amex card for specific reasons. We had been planning to buy plane
tickets on Delta and there are benefits to their Amex card that exceed
the annual fee, at least for the first a year (free checked bag, big
sign-up bonus). But then we decided on another airline and never
activated the Delta cards. In the past, Costco accepted only Amex so
tens of millions of people in the U.S. dutifully got a Costco Amex, and
when Costco dropped Amex, tens of millions of people also dropped Amex.

The problem with Amex is that it is not as widely accepted in the U.S.
as Visa or Mastercard, and in Europe it's even less accepted. An upscale
foreign hotel will accept Amex, but smaller, non-chain, local hotels
will usually not take Amex, nor will most local restaurants. We like
staying at local places when possible.

For example, in Salzburg we stayed at Hotel Alderhof which states "You
can pay for the room in cash or also with following credit cards: VISA,
Mastercard, JCB or European Bank cards (Maestro or Vpay)." OTOH, in
Shanghai I stayed at a small local hotel and they do accept Amex.

In article <sht4g0$t80$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> I should also point out they people in the U.S. generally only get an
> Amex card for specific reasons.

that's not at all true. many people use amex for their normal everyday
purchases, one reason amex named some of their cards 'everyday'.
several of their cards are *very* competitive.

some amex cards do have a specific purpose, such as platinum and its
various benefits, but that's the exception, not the rule. note that
platinum now has a $695 annual fee.

> We had been planning to buy plane
> tickets on Delta and there are benefits to their Amex card that exceed
> the annual fee, at least for the first a year (free checked bag, big
> sign-up bonus). But then we decided on another airline and never
> activated the Delta cards.

that was dumb. you forfeited a sign-up bonus plus there is an
additional card on your credit report despite it never being used.

not only that, but not activating it only means purchases might be
blocked. you still owe the annual fee unless you cancel, and amex
doesn't like when people get a card with a free first year and cancel
when the fee hits.

> In the past, Costco accepted only Amex so
> tens of millions of people in the U.S. dutifully got a Costco Amex, and
> when Costco dropped Amex, tens of millions of people also dropped Amex.

not true. although costco dropped amex because they now have an
exclusive with visa, amex is *adding* merchants.

> The problem with Amex is that it is not as widely accepted in the U.S.
> as Visa or Mastercard, and in Europe it's even less accepted.

very few places in the usa do not take amex. non-acceptance is little
higher outside of the usa, but not to where it's a significant problem.

On 9/15/2021 8:46 AM, sms wrote:

> I should also point out they people in the U.S. generally only get
> an Amex card for specific reasons.

I got mine when it was a Costco card. When I quit Costco I switched over
to a regular Amex card.

On 9/15/2021 7:52 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

>> Fiber to the house, when it comes to the neighborhood, will likely
>> be installed by a private company. There are 2 ISPs serving my
>> area so I'm not sure exactly how they will work it out.

> Will the (HFC) 'cable' go away when they lay fibre to your house or
> will it stay (and be useable)?

I don't know. There are no current plans here for fiber to the house
that I know of.

> We have (HFC) 'cable' as well and it's 75Mbps [1] speed serves us
> fine as well. We can get upto 1000Mbps if we want, but we don't.

I was at 25 Mbps and they automatically bumped me up to 50. I noticed no
difference. But there are only 2 of us using it. It may be different for
a large family.

> The fibre companies are concentrating on locations where there's only
> ADSL (no cable), but they're also putting fibre in the ground when
> there are groundworks anyway.

They're doing that here outside our walls. But everything inside is
private even the roads so once again it's up to God (the HOA).

> [1] From 2003 to this year, the speed went from 300/64 Kbps to 75/10
> Mbps, i.e. a speed increase of a factor 256 (down).

I probably wouldn't notice any difference for my use (2 streams max).
Many old people here are suckered into paying big bucks for speeds they
can't possibly need.

On 9/15/2021 6:49 AM, Savageduck wrote:

> My Amex Gold has been accepted at hotels in The Netherlands, UK,
> Belgium, France, Germany, and even the Schweitzerhof, Zurich, and
> Palace Hotel, Lucerne. None of those countries seemed to be willing
> to refuse payment via Amex, even hotels.

My Amex card isn't accepted at my wife's hair place. Or at several
stores in Coronado CA where I vacation every year. That's why I
also carry a Visa card. And cash in case the store's card system is
down. A few times I've found the WHOLE system down and nothing works.
Lots of grumbling customers walking out. One good EMP would sure
bring modern civilization to its knees...

On 9/15/2021 5:54 AM, sms wrote:
> On 9/14/2021 9:15 PM, AJL wrote:
>>> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

>> The Amex site says ALL their cards are embossed.

>> "1. All American Express account numbers are embossed..."

>>> <https://www.americanexpress.com/content/dam/amex/hk/en/staticassets/merchant/pdf/support-and-services/useful-information-and-downloads/GuidetoCheckingCardFaces.pdf>

> Well, as you pointed out, you can't always trust that web sites,
> or images, are accurate.

True. But nospam didn't prove me wrong. I said "The Amex site says ALL
their cards are embossed." And the Amex site does say that... ;)

> I received a Delta Amex a few weeks ago and it
> is not embossed.

My renewed Amex card is only a few months old and IS embossed. So I
guess it depends on the Amex card. Didn't someone post that here recently??

On 9/15/2021 5:49 AM, Rob wrote:

> it may be different in the US but here in EU people with poor
> vision are considered to be full-fledged people worthy of living
> a normal life.

Your roads must be a bit dangerous with blind people driving... ;)

On 9/15/2021 10:10 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 9/15/2021 8:46 AM, sms wrote:
>
>> I should also point out they people in the U.S. generally only get
>> an Amex card for specific reasons.
>
> I got mine when it was a Costco card. When I quit Costco I switched over
> to a regular Amex card.

I got one too, but I ended up never using it. There was no good reason
since the cashback rewards, and other benefits, were lower than my other
credit cards.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <shs5mp$et6$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I still don't understand why all your bills are
>> exactly the same size.
>
> better fit in wallets.
>
>> It must be nightmare for people with poor vision.
>
> if their vision is bad enough to where they can't read the money, then
> they likely aren't shopping alone.

That's ableist bullshit. Disabled people are perfectly capable of living
independent lives, in many ways like anyone else.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote

>> I still don't understand why all your
>> bills are exactly the same size.

> better fit in wallets.

>> It must be nightmare for people with poor vision.

> if their vision is bad enough to where they can't read
> the money, then they likely aren't shopping alone.

And should be using their phone to pay for things anyway.
That can tell them how much they paid etc to check on the
cash register monkey etc.

In article <shtceo$ojp$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

> >> It must be nightmare for people with poor vision.
> >
> > if their vision is bad enough to where they can't read the money, then
> > they likely aren't shopping alone.
>
> That's ableist bullshit. Disabled people are perfectly capable of living
> independent lives, in many ways like anyone else.

nobody said they couldn't. the point is if they can't read the numbers
on the money, they're going to have additional problems than which bill
to use.

Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote
>>> AJL wrote
>>>> Carlos E. R. wrote
>>>>> sms wrote

>>>>>> It would make sense to follow Canada's lead and drop the penny

>>>> I haven't routinely carried any change for a long long time.

>>> I need quarters for the Aldi shopping carts.

>> Our Aldi handed out free things that go on your
>> key ring with a clip that release the trolley instead
>> of a coin. And still sell them for peanuts in the stores.
> Here they give them for free when you go to the info desk
> or a cashier asking to change money into a suitable coin.

Yeah, our supermarkets do that too.

> Sort of defeats the entire purpose of having the coin lock...

Not really, it still encourages the customers to get that thing
back by returning the trolley instead of getting a new fake coin.

The Aldi one is a decent little metal thing with a badge
and a very decent thing that clips it on your keyring
and allows it to be released very quickly and easily.

Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>> The Real Bev wrote
>>>> AJL wrote
>>>>> Carlos E. R. wrote
>>
>>>>> I always hated the $1 coin. A bill is so much easier to handle.
>>>>> It was never very popular here, perhaps for that reason.
>>
>>>> We used to go to yard sales. I carried $1s and quarters, which covered
>>>> pretty much everything we wanted to buy. I was deeply resentful when
>>>> I bought stamps from a machine and was given change in $1 coins.
>>>> What idiot wants to carry $20 in coins in a pocket or purse?
>>
>>> It should be 1$ coin, 2$ coin, the 5$ bill and 10$ bill. Not 20·1$
>>> coins.
>>
>> It should take cards and phones.

> We can print our own stamps at home.

We can print the shipping label but
not everyone has a printer at home.

> You get a barcode you can print on a label or on the envelope.
> You can even write the digits of the code on the envelope by
> hand. No need to go to a machine or store for that.

On 9/15/2021 11:02 AM, Chris wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <shs5mp$et6$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I still don't understand why all your bills are
>>> exactly the same size.
>>
>> better fit in wallets.
>>
>>> It must be nightmare for people with poor vision.
>>
>> if their vision is bad enough to where they can't read the money, then
>> they likely aren't shopping alone.
>
> That's ableist bullshit. Disabled people are perfectly capable of living
> independent lives, in many ways like anyone else.

nospam is wrong of course™. Visually impaired people shop on their own
all the time. A store employee will help them pick items off the shelf.

For money, coins are easy to distinguish, but in the U.S., where all the
bills are the same size, it's harder to distinguish between bills, but
they have someone fold the edges in different ways, i.e.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_bill_folding>. But mobile wallet
should be much easier.

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
> Rob wrote
>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 14/09/2021 23.52, Rob wrote:
>>>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> Yeah, having 1$ bills is strange. The smaller we have is the 5€ bill.
>>>>> There was talk of removing the cent, but several countries refused. I
>>>>> agree with keeping the cent, removing it would cause prices to rise a
>>>>> bit.
>>>>
>>>> The 1 and 2 cent coins are rarely used here, all total amounts are
>>>> rounded to 5 cent in most stores (when paying cash).
>>>
>>> Yes, shops do that.
>>>
>>> However, there are other things that are adjusted to the cent. For
>>> example, gasoline today is 1.487€/litre at a nearby station. A person
>>> can purchase 10 litres of gasoline and pay in cash 14 euros and 87 cents
>>> exactly. If he pays 15€ exact, he can demand be given back the exact
>>> change to the cent.
>>>
>>> Thus they must have the cash available on the box. It is the law, they
>>> can not adjust to the 5 cents, unless they do so in favour of the
>>> client, paying him the excess *always*, which results in loses for the
>>> station.
>>
>> Ok, here the law is that while individual items have to be priced
>> to the cent (or in case of "liter of gasoline" it can even be .1 cent),
>> the total amount in a purchase can be rounded to 5 cents (up/down)
>> by the shop and you have to accept that, but only when paying cash.
>>
>> But stores *are* allowed to not do that rounding and return 1c/2c coins.
>> So when you buy 1 item priced 99c in most stores you have to pay
>> 1 euro, but in some (very few) stores you would get 1c back.
>>
>> I hate it when that happens, because the returned coins are often
>> not usable elsewhere (almost nobody does this) and they accumulate
>> in my wallet. Sure it is possible to give 5 1c coints when 5c has
>> to be paid, but the shops don't like it and you only get rid of them
>> when you frequently pay small amounts ending in .05
>> So more than once I have just discarded them.
>
> I just return them in a purchase when I feel like that, and as they give
> me cents when they want, they can not complain. In fact, sometimes when
> the price was adjusted to the cent, I have been asked "don't you have
> that cent"? because they don't like to pay 5.

Makes a lot more sense to scrap 1c, 2c and 5c coins.