On 12/28/2021 10:14 AM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 11:17:45 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
>> On 12/27/2021 10:41 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Ah, now I see. For everyday life I was talking about Fahrenheit, not the
>>> elements. And I corrected myself to clarify that I meant elements that are
>>> not found in nature but were manufactured in America. Maybe I'm even wrong
>>> about that. Regardless, I was responding to America-bashers: "You fools use
>>> Fahrenheit. What idiots you are! Ha ha ha". We put 12 men on the moon, fool.
>>>
>>>
>>> I was responding to that, which I think damn well gives me the right to
>>> brag.
>> Why? Were you one of the people that visited the moon? How instrumental were
>> you in getting them there?
>
> My God, are you a computer? I was bragging about the US having gone to the moon and all you Fahrenheit-bashers not. Do I need to spell everything out in complete detail, leaving no stone unturned. Or are you just being a troll?

Perhaps before assuming ( ASS U ME ) anything about who I am and where I live,
if you can read, take a look at my sig.

>> This kind of thinking is worse than useless and is what causes problems on this
>> planet.
>
> Nonsense.

No, it is not.

>> Can this whole thread be dropped? Or "get a room" ...
>
> If you want it dropped, stop asking questions.

I have stayed away from the useless topic, for the most part. At least until I
see something totally asinine. Though, now that you've dragged me down to your
level, most won't be able to tell us apart. You sure didn't.

Hint, read sig for location.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

In article <j2u1p1Fpo8uU1@mid.individual.net>, "Michael Kraemer @ home"
<M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes:

> alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
>
> well, given you are on a patriotic trip ...
>
> > The rest of the world doesn't have several elements named after American entities: Americium, Berkelium, Californium, Tennessine, Lawrencium (a lab in California). Can any other country beat that?
>
> Easily, even if we add those you have forgotten (Sg, Lv):
> Ge Re Hs Mt Ds Rg Cn Es
> all have German context.
>
> Finding those elements with French, Russian or Swedish context I leave
> as a homework for you.

Sweden probably holds the record. Even one small Swedish town has more
elements named after it than most countries.

On 12/28/2021 11:46 AM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:09:53 AM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2021-12-28 kl. 03:04, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
>>> On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 6:50:50 PM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2021-12-27 kl. 22:28, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
>>>>> On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 4:11:52 PM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>>> alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The rest of the world doesn't have several elements named after American entities: Americium, Berkelium, Californium, Tennessine, Lawrencium (a lab in California). Can any other country beat that?
>>>>>> Russia, by a long shot. They have all the superheavy elements, even if
>>>>>> Americans have a few of the transuranics. But then Russians have a bunch
>>>>>> of weird ones like Samarium on top of that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And many of the rare earth elements are named after places in Scandinavia.
>>>>>> Holmium is named after Stockholm, Scandium and Thulium after Scandinavia
>>>>>> in general, Erbium, Terbium, Ytterbium all after the Ytterby mine in
>>>>>> Sweden.
>>>>>> --scott
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>>>>>
>>>>> I misspoke. I was thinking manufactured elements that don't exist in nature. Sorry. I misspoke. My bad.
>>>>>
>>>> Ah, OK. There you might have a point. I looked them up and most are just
>>>> made up things with low or even none at all practical use. Most of them are
>>>> also very shortlived with half-live measured from 10's of milliseconds
>>>> (tennessine) to a few hours (Lawrencium). What use do you have for them?
>>>
>>> Doesn't matter. I didn't say they were useful. For physics they are. For chemistry or direct pratical use, nothing yet. But you could have said that about Faraday's discovery of induction, Einsteins discovery in 1917 of stimulated emission, and other things.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Materials in the periodic system up to number 94 or 95 are "natural". The
>>>> rest doesn't exists in nature, only in laboratories and are usually very
>>>> short-lived.
>>>
>>> My impression has been that only up to U is found in nature.
>> Yes, 94 and 95 are debated. There has been signes of natural existance
>> way long ago after some event in Africa, but they have also been long
>> gong since they fall apart quickly.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is a list of natural elements with Swedish discovrer. I think that
>>>> you will easily recognize at least the top 12-13 on that list. Many of
>>>> them are heavily used in the everyday life today.
>>>>
>>>> Cobalt - Discovered 1732 by Georg Brandt.
>>>> Nickel - Discovered 1751 by Axel Fredrik Cronsted.
>>>> Nitrogen - Discovered 1772 by Carl Wilhelm Scheele (and Daniel Rutherford).
>>>> Oxygen - Discovered 1773 by Carl Wilhelm Scheele.
>>>> Manganese - Discovered 1774 by Johan Gottlieb Gahn.
>>>> Tantalum - Discovered 1802 by Anders Gustaf Ekeberg.
>>>> Cerium - Discovered 1803 by Jöns Jacob Berzelius & Wilhelm Hisinger (Ger.)
>>>> Selenium - Discovered 1817 by Jöns Jacob Berzelius.
>>>> Silicon - Discovered 1823 by Jöns Jacob Berzelius.
>>>> Thorium - Discovered 1829 by Jöns Jacob Berzelius.
>>>> Lithium - Discovered 1817 by Johan August Arfwedson.
>>>> Vanadium - Discovered 1830 by Nils Gabriel Sefström.
>>>> Lanthanum - Discovered 1839 by Carl Gustaf Mosander.
>>>> Praseodymium & Neodymium - Extracted from the mineral Didymium discovered
>>>> by Carl Gustaf Mosander.
>>>> Erbium - Discovered 1843 by Carl Gustaf Mosander.
>>>> Terbium - Discovered 1842 by Carl Gustaf Mosander.
>>>> Holmium - Discovered 1879 by Per Theodor Cleve.
>>>> Thulium - Discovered 1879 by Per Theodor Cleve.
>>>> Scandium - Discovered by Lars Fredrik Nilson.
>>>>
>>>> So, what was your point again?
>>>
>>> That AFAIK, the U.S. has manufactured more new elements than other countries.
>> And the practical usage is, what?
>>
>>> Maybe I'm wrong about that...
>
> We don't know yet. It may well be quite useful in the future. And physicists need the absolute best possible technology. This pushes companies to make even better technology for people than if physicists didn't do experiments like this.
>
> Oh, you'll probably reply with "And the practical usage is, what?" again, as if I didn't explain it. Are you just being a troll? What's the practical usage of sports? What's the practical usage of entertainment in general, including art, music, movies, plays, television shows and the like? No, go ahead. Completely ignore my points and come back with the same question. A good question, but it has a good answer. Troll away.
>
>> Maybe not. It is not that surprising that there were some side-effects
>> from the Manhattan project and other nuclear work. I just do not see
>> how it matters and what the real-life usage is. Apart from proving that
>> it *can* be done. That might matter for some, of course.
>
> As I said in my previous post, there are many discoveries and technical accomplishments that at the time seemed useless. I even gave examples. You also seem to be confusing my claim about usefulness of Fahrenheit with this, which I also explained.
>
> Here. Let the man, Neil deGrasse Tyson, explain it to you.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joARXZagTuM
>
> There's another video where he addresses this far more succinctly, but I can't find it at the moment, as it was part of a more general video.
>
> Yes. I am now convinced. You are being a troll. So be it. Please address my points or go silent.
>
> Alan (^_^(
>

I have never seen Jan-Erik do any troolish things ...

Though, he really doesn't like it when I use "WEENDOZE" ...

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

In article <sqcpgd$139$2@dont-email.me>,
=?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
writes:

> Den 2021-12-27 kl. 16:52, skrev Jan-Erik Söderholm:
> > Den 2021-12-27 kl. 14:47, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
> >
> >> The rest of the world doesn't have several elements named after American
> >> entities: Americium, Berkelium, Californium, Tennessine, Lawrencium (a
> >> lab in California). Can any other country beat that?
> >
> > How many did you list, 5 if I'm right? And that is for the whole of the US?
> > One single mine in Sweden (Ytterby) has 4 elements dicovered and named
> > after it, and 4 more discovered at the same place but named after
> > other Swedish locations or persons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ytterby
> >
> > Anyway... Can you, without looking it up, describe the original definition
> > of the Fahrenheit scale? I think that the definition for 0 and 100 deg C
> > is well known to anyone, and very simple to reproduce and test. And both
> > points can be easilly refered to in everyday life.
> >
> > So what did 0 deg F and 100 deg F refered to when that scale was made up?
> > Without looking it up...
> >
>
> Here is an overview of the natural elements with there country of discovery.
>
> https://www.businessinsider.com/this-brilliant-graphic-shows-you-which-country-discovered-every-element-in-the-periodic-table-2014-4?r=US&IR=T
>
>
> I think that small Sweden stands out quite well here. The top 5 are:
>
> UK: 24
> US: 21
> Sweden: 20
> Germany: 19
> France: 17
> Russia: 9
>
> Then it quickly drops down just a few or a single one discovered.
> Another point of interest is where the US flags are in that picture.
> Most seems to be weird laboratory elements with minor practical use
> today. Lowest element number is 85. Compare with the more usual
> elements with lower numbers.

Sweden does well because of the rare earths. Being chemically very
similar, they often appear together, so finding one led to finding
several more.

Note that some elements have very different names in other languages,
not just "aluminium" vs. "aluminum" (considering that most metals end in
"ium", "aluminum" is the outsider here) or small changes ("Silber"
instead of "silver"). For example, in German "sodium" is "Natrium"
(note the Na symbol for sodium). Similarly, "potassium" is "Kalium"
(symbol K). "Tungsten" is "Wolfram" (symbol W) in German. Since
"Wolfram" is a normal (but somewhat old-fashioned name), the title of
Oliver Sacks's wonderful book "Uncle Tungsten" would be lost in
translation if translated literally into German. In Swedish it is
"Morbror Volfram", so the same problem. Note that "tungsten" comes from
the Swedish "tung sten", which means "heavy stone".

In article <63def7fc-c3fc-4697-a0dd-535b886505ecn@googlegroups.com>,
"alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:

> You're pressing a trivial point. So things are easy in C to translate to
> kelvin.

I remember a usenet post where someone posted some Fortran code to
convert Hertz to cycles per second. :-)

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
> writes:
>
> > On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
> > anything else. Good enough.
> >
> > See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
>
> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".

Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.

Maybe easier to add or
> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
>
> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.

-40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that straight.)

On 12/28/2021 4:38 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
>> writes:
>>
>>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
>>> anything else. Good enough.
>>>
>>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
>>
>> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
>
> Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
>
>> Maybe easier to add or
>> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
>>
>> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
>
> -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that straight.)

-40 F is the same as -40 C

If you get to -40 K then the nobel price in physics should be sure!

:-)

Arne

In article <0fc011d0-ebb1-4fd6-8e48-1642738322e3n@googlegroups.com>,
"alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> > In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
> > writes:
> >
> > > On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
> > > anything else. Good enough.
> > >
> > > See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
> >
> > Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
>
> Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
>
> Maybe easier to add or
> > subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
> >
> > At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
>
> -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that straight.)

Nope, -40 F and -40 C are the same. Add 273.15 to C to get K.

On 12/28/21 5:05 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/28/2021 4:38 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig
>> (undress to reply) wrote:
>>> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
>>> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
>>>> anything else. Good enough.
>>>>
>>>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
>>>
>>> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
>>
>> Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
>>
>>>                                               Maybe easier to add or
>>> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
>>>
>>> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
>>
>> -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have
>> that straight.)
>
> -40 F is the same as -40 C
>
> If you get to -40 K then the nobel price in physics should be sure!
>
> :-)
>

Especially if you can achieve cold fusion there. :-)

bill

Den 2021-12-28 kl. 16:00, skrev Scott Dorsey:
> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> wrote:
>> Oxygen - Discovered 1773 by Carl Wilhelm Scheele.
>
> So they don't give credit to Priestley there? For shame.
> --scott
>

Well, that is right. History is often not a simple matter. Scheele
was one of the chemists "discovering" Oxygen in a timespan of a
few years. The details are on "the web", of course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen

Den 2021-12-28 kl. 22:38, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
>> writes:
>>
>>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
>>> anything else. Good enough.
>>>
>>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
>>
>> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
>
> Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
>
> Maybe easier to add or
>> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
>>
>> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
>
> -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that straight.)

To points.

If the temperature that is commonly known as the "absolute zero" is defined
to be 0 K, please explain how you will get to -40 K.

Then, I saw in a previous post that you asked about kelvin vs. kelvins.
I might be that you are confused by the ending s in celcius. That ending
s is neither a plurar or a genitive, the (Swedish b.t.w) scientest simply
had the last name Celcius. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Celsius.
William Thomson, 1st Baron Kelvin (or "Lord Kelvin") was simply named like
that, and a kelvin is never written with en ending s.

On 12/28/2021 7:21 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2021-12-28 kl. 22:38, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to
>> reply) wrote:
>>> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
>>> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
>>>> anything else. Good enough.
>>>>
>>>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
>>>
>>> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
>>
>> Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
>>
>> Maybe easier to add or
>>> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
>>>
>>> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
>>
>> -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that
>> straight.)
>
> To points.
>
> If the temperature that is commonly known as the "absolute zero" is defined
> to be 0 K, please explain how you will get to -40 K.

Negative heat ?

:-)

> Then, I saw in a previous post that you asked about kelvin vs. kelvins.
> I might be that you are confused by the ending s in celcius. That ending
> s is neither a plurar or a genitive, the (Swedish b.t.w) scientest simply
> had the last name Celcius. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Celsius.
> William Thomson, 1st Baron Kelvin (or "Lord Kelvin") was simply named like
> that, and a kelvin is never written with en ending s.
>

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Den 2021-12-29 kl. 01:33, skrev Dave Froble:
> On 12/28/2021 7:21 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2021-12-28 kl. 22:38, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
>>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig
>>> (undress to
>>> reply) wrote:
>>>> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
>>>> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
>>>>> anything else. Good enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
>>>>
>>>> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
>>>
>>> Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
>>>
>>> Maybe easier to add or
>>>> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
>>>>
>>>> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
>>>
>>> -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that
>>> straight.)
>>
>> To points.
>>
>> If the temperature that is commonly known as the "absolute zero" is defined
>> to be 0 K, please explain how you will get to -40 K.
>
> Negative heat ?
>
> :-)

Right, there is "antimatter", so why not? :-)

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:05:45 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/28/2021 4:38 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> >> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
> >> writes:
> >>
> >>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
> >>> anything else. Good enough.
> >>>
> >>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
> >>
> >> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
> >
> > Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
> >
> >> Maybe easier to add or
> >> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
> >>
> >> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
> >
> > -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that straight.)
> -40 F is the same as -40 C
>
> If you get to -40 K then the nobel price in physics should be sure!
>
> :-)
>
> Arne

Did I say kelvins? . . . . Yep. I goofed again.

-40 F = -40 C

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:39:05 PM UTC-5, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 12/28/21 5:05 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> > On 12/28/2021 4:38 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig
> >> (undress to reply) wrote:
> >>> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
> >>> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
> >>>> anything else. Good enough.
> >>>>
> >>>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
> >>>
> >>> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
> >>
> >> Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
> >>
> >>> Maybe easier to add or
> >>> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
> >>>
> >>> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
> >>
> >> -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have
> >> that straight.)
> >
> > -40 F is the same as -40 C
> >
> > If you get to -40 K then the nobel price in physics should be sure!
> >
> > :-)
> >
> Especially if you can achieve cold fusion there. :-)
>
> bill

Yeah, I screwed up again. Sorry. Should be C, not kelvin(s). Oops.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:33:25 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 12/28/2021 7:21 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> > Den 2021-12-28 kl. 22:38, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
> >> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to
> >> reply) wrote:
> >>> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
> >>> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
> >>>> anything else. Good enough.
> >>>>
> >>>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
> >>>
> >>> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
> >>
> >> Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
> >>
> >> Maybe easier to add or
> >>> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
> >>>
> >>> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
> >>
> >> -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that
> >> straight.)
> >
> > To points.
> >
> > If the temperature that is commonly known as the "absolute zero" is defined
> > to be 0 K, please explain how you will get to -40 K.
> Negative heat ?

Yeah, I screwed up again. Sorry. Oops.

Actually, negative temperatures _do_ exist -- for systems of spins! I am not making this up. Not sure if anyone ever reached -40 kelvins though!

>
> :-)
> > Then, I saw in a previous post that you asked about kelvin vs. kelvins.
> > I might be that you are confused by the ending s in celcius. That ending
> > s is neither a plurar or a genitive, the (Swedish b.t.w) scientest simply
> > had the last name

Nope. I think I've seen kelvins, and I checked out the NIST site and couldn't find a clarification. Has nothing to do with Celsius.

Celcius. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Celsius.
> > William Thomson, 1st Baron Kelvin (or "Lord Kelvin") was simply named like
> > that, and a kelvin is never written with en ending s.
> >
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Alan

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:42:05 PM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2021-12-29 kl. 01:33, skrev Dave Froble:
> > On 12/28/2021 7:21 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> >> Den 2021-12-28 kl. 22:38, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
> >>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig
> >>> (undress to
> >>> reply) wrote:
> >>>> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
> >>>> writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
> >>>>> anything else. Good enough.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
> >>>>
> >>>> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
> >>>
> >>> Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe easier to add or
> >>>> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
> >>>>
> >>>> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
> >>>
> >>> -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that
> >>> straight.)
> >>
> >> To points.
> >>
> >> If the temperature that is commonly known as the "absolute zero" is defined
> >> to be 0 K, please explain how you will get to -40 K.
> >
> > Negative heat ?
> >
> > :-)
> Right, there is "antimatter", so why not? :-)

BTW, there is such a think as negative temperature. And it has nothing to do with antimatter. It has to do with systems of spins. When the energy is bounded, you can get negative temperatures.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:33:25 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 12/28/2021 7:21 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> > Den 2021-12-28 kl. 22:38, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
> >> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to
> >> reply) wrote:
> >>> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
> >>> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
> >>>> anything else. Good enough.
> >>>>
> >>>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
> >>>
> >>> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
> >>
> >> Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
> >>
> >> Maybe easier to add or
> >>> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
> >>>
> >>> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
> >>
> >> -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that
> >> straight.)
> >
> > To points.
> >
> > If the temperature that is commonly known as the "absolute zero" is defined
> > to be 0 K, please explain how you will get to -40 K.
> Negative heat ?

No, but there is such a thing as negative temperature. It applies to systems of spins. So that's how you can get negative temperatures.

Look it up! Use your Google skills.

Hah!

>
> :-)
> > Then, I saw in a previous post that you asked about kelvin vs. kelvins.
> > I might be that you are confused by the ending s in celcius. That ending
> > s is neither a plurar or a genitive, the (Swedish b.t.w) scientest simply
> > had the last name Celcius. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Celsius..
> > William Thomson, 1st Baron Kelvin (or "Lord Kelvin") was simply named like
> > that, and a kelvin is never written with en ending s.

No sir. I'm not the type who thinks there are such things as a physic, or a quantum mechanic. Thanks for wasting your time on it though!

> >
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Alan (^_^(

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:05:45 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/28/2021 4:38 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> >> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
> >> writes:
> >>
> >>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
> >>> anything else. Good enough.
> >>>
> >>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
> >>
> >> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
> >
> > Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
> >
> >> Maybe easier to add or
> >> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
> >>
> >> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
> >
> > -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that straight.)
> -40 F is the same as -40 C
>
> If you get to -40 K then the nobel price in physics should be sure!
>
> :-)
>
> Arne

What? A "nobel price"? And Nobel should be capitalized. Hah!

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:16:36 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <0fc011d0-ebb1-4fd6...@googlegroups.com>,
> "alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfe...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> > > In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
> > > writes:
> > >
> > > > On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
> > > > anything else. Good enough.
> > > >
> > > > See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
> > >
> > > Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
> >
> > Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
> >
> > Maybe easier to add or
> > > subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
> > >
> > > At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
> >
> > -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that straight.)
> Nope, -40 F and -40 C are the same. Add 273.15 to C to get K.

Yep, I goofed again. Sorry. Obviously I meant C.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:21:29 PM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2021-12-28 kl. 22:38, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
> > On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:41:41 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> >> In article <j2tqdp...@mid.individual.net>, Roy Omond <r...@omond.net>
> >> writes:
> >>
> >>> On 26/12/2021 18:36, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> ... 20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86. Then just add or subtract 18 per 10 for
> >>> anything else. Good enough.
> >>>
> >>> See, you even got that wrong: "20 F is 68 C. 30 F is 86."
> >>
> >> Correct is "20 C is 68 F. 30 C is 86 F".
> >
> > Yes. Sometimes a get dyslexic, and the hour was late.
> >
> > Maybe easier to add or
> >> subtract 9 for 5. For me, a difference of 5 C is easily noticeable.
> >>
> >> At that temperature is C the same as F? -40.
> >
> > -40 deg. F is the same as -40 kelvin. (or kelvins? I still don't have that straight.)
> To points.

What was that? "To" points? It's two, not to. Hah!

>
> If the temperature that is commonly known as the "absolute zero" is defined
> to be 0 K, please explain how you will get to -40 K.

With systems of spins. Google negative temperature and you will see. Hah!

>
> Then, I saw in a previous post that you asked about kelvin vs. kelvins.
> I might be that you are confused by the ending s in celcius. That ending
> s is neither a plurar or a genitive, the (Swedish b.t.w) scientest simply
> had the last name Celcius. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Celsius.
> William Thomson, 1st Baron Kelvin (or "Lord Kelvin") was simply named like
> that, and a kelvin is never written with en ending s.

Thanks for wasting your time on this totally bogus conjecture.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:43:21 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 12/28/2021 10:14 AM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 11:17:45 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
> >> On 12/27/2021 10:41 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Ah, now I see. For everyday life I was talking about Fahrenheit, not the
> >>> elements. And I corrected myself to clarify that I meant elements that are
> >>> not found in nature but were manufactured in America. Maybe I'm even wrong
> >>> about that. Regardless, I was responding to America-bashers: "You fools use
> >>> Fahrenheit. What idiots you are! Ha ha ha". We put 12 men on the moon, fool.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I was responding to that, which I think damn well gives me the right to
> >>> brag.
> >> Why? Were you one of the people that visited the moon? How instrumental were
> >> you in getting them there?
> >
> > My God, are you a computer? I was bragging about the US having gone to the moon and all you Fahrenheit-bashers not. Do I need to spell everything out in complete detail, leaving no stone unturned. Or are you just being a troll?
> Perhaps before assuming ( ASS U ME ) anything about who I am and where I live,
> if you can read, take a look at my sig.
> >> This kind of thinking is worse than useless and is what causes problems on this
> >> planet.
> >
> > Nonsense.
> No, it is not.
> >> Can this whole thread be dropped? Or "get a room" ...
> >
> > If you want it dropped, stop asking questions.
> I have stayed away from the useless topic, for the most part. At least until I
> see something totally asinine. Though, now that you've dragged me down to your
> level, most won't be able to tell us apart. You sure didn't.
>
> Hint, read sig for location.
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Really? You write, " Why? Were you one of the people that visited the moon? How instrumental were
>> you in getting them there?"
and complain about my writings? Really? How instrumental were you in setting the Celsius scale?

Hint: No, I did not in fact assume you are a computer. But it appears you need everything spelled out in great precision, as you misinterpret my remarks badly or just make way too much of a big deal of any imprecision.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:52:00 PM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <sqcpgd$139$2...@dont-email.me>,
> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik....@telia.com>
> writes:
>
> > Den 2021-12-27 kl. 16:52, skrev Jan-Erik Söderholm:
> > > Den 2021-12-27 kl. 14:47, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
> > >
> > >> The rest of the world doesn't have several elements named after American
> > >> entities: Americium, Berkelium, Californium, Tennessine, Lawrencium (a
> > >> lab in California). Can any other country beat that?
> > >
> > > How many did you list, 5 if I'm right? And that is for the whole of the US?
> > > One single mine in Sweden (Ytterby) has 4 elements dicovered and named
> > > after it, and 4 more discovered at the same place but named after
> > > other Swedish locations or persons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ytterby
> > >
> > > Anyway... Can you, without looking it up, describe the original definition
> > > of the Fahrenheit scale? I think that the definition for 0 and 100 deg C
> > > is well known to anyone, and very simple to reproduce and test. And both
> > > points can be easilly refered to in everyday life.
> > >
> > > So what did 0 deg F and 100 deg F refered to when that scale was made up?
> > > Without looking it up...
> > >
> >
> > Here is an overview of the natural elements with there country of discovery.
> >
> > https://www.businessinsider.com/this-brilliant-graphic-shows-you-which-country-discovered-every-element-in-the-periodic-table-2014-4?r=US&IR=T
> >
> >
> > I think that small Sweden stands out quite well here. The top 5 are:
> >
> > UK: 24
> > US: 21
> > Sweden: 20
> > Germany: 19
> > France: 17
> > Russia: 9
> >
> > Then it quickly drops down just a few or a single one discovered.
> > Another point of interest is where the US flags are in that picture.
> > Most seems to be weird laboratory elements with minor practical use
> > today. Lowest element number is 85. Compare with the more usual
> > elements with lower numbers.
>
> Sweden does well because of the rare earths. Being chemically very
> similar, they often appear together, so finding one led to finding
> several more.
>
> Note that some elements have very different names in other languages,
> not just "aluminium" vs. "aluminum" (considering that most metals end in
> "ium", "aluminum" is the outsider here) or small changes ("Silber"
> instead of "silver"). For example, in German "sodium" is "Natrium"
> (note the Na symbol for sodium). Similarly, "potassium" is "Kalium"
> (symbol K). "Tungsten" is "Wolfram" (symbol W) in German. Since
> "Wolfram" is a normal (but somewhat old-fashioned name), the title of
> Oliver Sacks's wonderful book "Uncle Tungsten" would be lost in
> translation if translated literally into German. In Swedish it is
> "Morbror Volfram", so the same problem. Note that "tungsten" comes from
> the Swedish "tung sten", which means "heavy stone".

Well, I meant elements manufactured, not found lying around. And the US has quite a few under its belt. Due to disputes, Russia might actually have more. Depends on your interpretation of reports.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 3:43:21 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 12/28/2021 10:14 AM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 11:17:45 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
> >> On 12/27/2021 10:41 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Ah, now I see. For everyday life I was talking about Fahrenheit, not the
> >>> elements. And I corrected myself to clarify that I meant elements that are
> >>> not found in nature but were manufactured in America. Maybe I'm even wrong
> >>> about that. Regardless, I was responding to America-bashers: "You fools use
> >>> Fahrenheit. What idiots you are! Ha ha ha". We put 12 men on the moon, fool.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I was responding to that, which I think damn well gives me the right to
> >>> brag.
> >> Why? Were you one of the people that visited the moon? How instrumental were
> >> you in getting them there?
> >
> > My God, are you a computer? I was bragging about the US having gone to the moon and all you Fahrenheit-bashers not. Do I need to spell everything out in complete detail, leaving no stone unturned. Or are you just being a troll?
> Perhaps before assuming ( ASS U ME ) anything about who I am and where I live,
> if you can read, take a look at my sig.
> >> This kind of thinking is worse than useless and is what causes problems on this
> >> planet.
> >
> > Nonsense.
> No, it is not.
> >> Can this whole thread be dropped? Or "get a room" ...
> >
> > If you want it dropped, stop asking questions.
> I have stayed away from the useless topic, for the most part. At least until I
> see something totally asinine. Though, now that you've dragged me down to your
> level, most won't be able to tell us apart. You sure didn't.
>
> Hint, read sig for location.
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Oh, I get the location reference now. Please tell me exactly where I said you were an America-basher?

I wrote: "Regardless, I was responding to America-bashers: "You fools use
> >>> Fahrenheit. What idiots you are! Ha ha ha". We put 12 men on the moon, fool. "

Oh, you took "fool" to mean you. No, I meant the America-bashers. I probably should have made it fools or perhaps the more clear and explicit America-bashers.

You couldn't figure that out?

Greetings!

Sorry, everyone, for getting, uh, overly grumpy.

Many of you were gleefully pouncing on me and I overreacted. I made some mistakes and I must take responsibility for them. That's not to say that everything I wrote was wrong.

I do find Fahrenheit to be fine for normal ordinary everyday use when I'm wearing my layperson hat. Some think rather poorly about F. So be it. Use whatever temperature scale you want. I won't bother you about it. But if someone says Google keeps their data centers at 80 deg., I don't think it should be a big deal to realize that Fahrenheit was the scale used. And one shouldn't be disparaging about using F. And don't bring science into it. I'm talking layperson ramblings and doings here and just temperature scales, not pounds and ounces and whatnot. Sorry, I can't help myself: OpenVMS has a SYSGEN parameter whose units are micro-fortnights!

And yes, there really is such a thing as negative temperature. Look it up.

I don't care about lbs. vs. lbf. Almost no one does.

The meaning of pounds or kg or mass or weight or whatever depends on the context: If you go to the moon you will weigh less, but you won't have lost any weight! That said, I'm not interested in documenting all the subtleties about mass and weight and kg and pounds that we all already know. That's what dictionaries and encyclopedias are for. And then there's mass in relativity. That's a whole other can of worms!

Yes, 20 deg. C = 68 deg. F, and 30 deg. C = 86 deg. F. Easy! I have a Celsius thermometer and need to do such conversions from time to time. OK, there's some additional math involved. I can do it. And I don't bitch about it.

And yes, -40 deg. F is the same as -40 deg. C, not -40 kelvins.

And what's with kelvin and kelvins anyway? What was wrong with degrees kelvin or deg. K? Are we going to have Celsiuses and Fahrenheits next? I looked it up. The "plural" _is_ kelvins. So be it. Actually, there is a benefit. You don't have to delve into special-characters space to make the o superscript.

And the elements: I meant those manufactured that aren't found in nature. In that dept., the US and Russia have the most. Germany is next, then Japan. The exact counts depend on how you interpret the disputes and the multinational collaborations. If you're going to bash America over temperature scales, I'm going to respond with moon landings and manufactured elements.

I will work on improving my proofreading. I think I just convert mistakes into correct words and phrases in my head and don't realize it. One is one's own worst proofreader!

And I do greatly appreciate the help I get here in cov. . . .

Hopefully I haven't goofed yet again. Apologies in advance if I have.

Stay safe, everyone!

Alan (^_^(