In article <tq7fp1$17oe$1@gioia.aioe.org>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> I also added "AirTags" as

even more unsubstantiated and easily refuted claims.

In article <tq7fs1$17oe$2@gioia.aioe.org>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > Android 12 phones have a "Protect Battery" capability which will stop
> > charging at a set percent to prolong the long term life of the phone.
>
> Are you sure that this is an Android feature, or is it just a Samsung
> feature?

it's not android, although may be more than just samsung, and not
necessarily identical to what samsung did.

On 1/17/2023 2:10 PM, JAB wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 02:28:40 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think that it's time to stop complaining about this. It's over. Apple
>> saved over $6 billion by not including chargers
>
> Not only did Apple save a lot of money by not including chargers, but they
> sell at least a stock of their branded chargers now to every store chain.
>
> Do you know if those Apple or Samsung chargers support PD and QC standards?

I don't know.

I thought that I read somewhere that USB-C PD 3.0 included QC 3.0
compatibility so a USB-C PD 3.0 charger would fast-charge a QC 3.0
device, but not vice-versa. But I can't find where I read that so it may
not be true.

All of the USB-C PD 3.0 chargers that I have do support QC3.0 as well,
but none of those are Apple or Samsung chargers. I know that Anker's
"Power IQ 3.0" supports both USB-C PD 3.0 and QC 3.0.

On 1/17/2023 4:03 PM, Heron wrote:
> On 1/17/2023 5:07 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>> Regardless - this is a fairly trivial thing to implement and would
>> please many.  It probably simply offends someone at Apple who's
>> "invested" in the current scheme of things.
>
> Probably Apple doesn't want to call attention to their small batteries.

I think that it's more an issue of not wanting an excessive number of
settings and the philosophy that the user should not have to worry about
this kind of thing.

The _one_ setting that I most wish that iOS would implement is the
ability to set different volumes for different things. For example, on
Android you can have different volumes for media, ringtones, and
notifications. For iOS this has only ever been available on jailbroken
devices. Genius Bar employees have stated that this is one of the
most-asked questions asked by iPhone users that have switched from
Android. It may be the case that Google or Samsung has a patent on this
functionality and that Apple is not able to add it to iOS. However if
you Jailbreak your iPhone there are apps you can install that will allow
separate volume settings.

On 1/17/2023 4:50 PM, sms wrote:

> I think that it's [automatic charging stop to save battery] a Samsung-only
> feature. I have no phone with Android 12, but on a phone with Android 13
> it's not there (nor is it there on my old Samsung Galaxy Note 9 with
> Android 10).

On my Samsung Galaxy S10+ (Android 12):
Settings > Battery and device care > Battery > More battery settings >
Protect battery switch to ON"
Caption under switch: "To extend the lifespan of your battery limit the
charge to 85%".

In article <tq7hhi$1obc$1@gioia.aioe.org>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> >> Regardless - this is a fairly trivial thing to implement and would
> >> please many.  It probably simply offends someone at Apple who's
> >> "invested" in the current scheme of things.
> >
> > Probably Apple doesn't want to call attention to their small batteries.

hi arlen.

> I think that it's more an issue of not wanting an excessive number of
> settings and the philosophy that the user should not have to worry about
> this kind of thing.

apple's solution is using machine learning to manage charging so that
the user doesn't need to babysit anything, which is a better option for
most people.

> The _one_ setting that I most wish that iOS would implement is the
> ability to set different volumes for different things.

that's entirely under the control of each individual app.

try learning something about ios before commenting, for a change.

> Genius Bar employees have stated that this is one of the
> most-asked questions asked by iPhone users that have switched from
> Android.

bullshit they have. that is not the type of thing they would disclose
to the public, and if it was true, apple would have added additional
options, which is further proof that your claim is false.

> It may be the case that Google or Samsung has a patent on this
> functionality and that Apple is not able to add it to iOS.

there you go with your usual bogus patent claim, which is also false
since it as noted above, it's implemented on a per-app basis.

AJL wrote:

> On my Samsung Galaxy S10+ (Android 12):
> Settings > Battery and device care > Battery > More battery settings >
> Protect battery switch to ON"
> Caption under switch: "To extend the lifespan of your battery limit the
> charge to 85%".

Hi AJL,

Does your setting look something like this on my free Samsung phone?
<https://i.postimg.cc/VL6HGPGc/battery01.jpg> Android Battery Settings

My el cheapo (actually free) Samsung came with a fast charger and a modern
5 amp hour battery, which, if you compare to today's laughably puny iPhone
batteries, means Apple needs this setting more than we do.

*The iPhone owner should be _embarrassed_ about their baby batteries*

If you lose, as is often documented, 20% of your capacity after 500 cycles,
then 20% of the laughably puny iPhone baby batteries drops them way below
threshold far sooner than 20% of the huge modern Android batteries does.

*Apple designed the iPhone baby batteries to die _sooner_ than Android*

It's plain jane physics why iPhone batteries fail sooner than Androids.

nospam wrote:

>>> Android 12 phones have a "Protect Battery" capability which will stop
>>> charging at a set percent to prolong the long term life of the phone.
>>
>> Are you sure that this is an Android feature, or is it just a Samsung
>> feature?
>
> it's not android, although may be more than just samsung, and not
> necessarily identical to what samsung did.

This is the settings page on my el cheapo (free) samsung from T-Mobile.
<https://i.postimg.cc/VL6HGPGc/battery01.jpg> Android Battery Settings

nospam wrote:

> once again, you demonstrate how little you know about ios.

I realize, nospam, you've been told you're stupid your whole life...

But...

Why is it, nospam, that you are almost always wrong about what iOS can do
and what it can't do, and yet you claim everyone else is who is clueless?

Do you want me to even _begin_ to list all the things about iOS you don't
know, and which you _fabricated_ existing, nospam?

Like, oh, say, graphical wi-fi signal strength debugging, or automatic call
recording, or, oh, say, on-device system wide firewalls, and, oh, say,
on-device gps spoofing, and the real tor browser, and oh, graphical
cellular signal strength debugging, etc....

All of those (and much more) you were _ignorant_ of, nospam, when you
claimed that there were existing apps for each on the app store.

In fact, you _still_ do not know the difference between a decibel and a
megabit per second, just like Jolly Roger, Alan Baker, and Snit!

<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo> iKooks can't even see the fatal flaw!
REFERENCE: Oct 10, 2017, 8:50:05 AM
*It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/PZuec56EWB0>

Why is it that you _think_ you know so much - and yet you're often wrong?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 17:14:07 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>>> I think that it's time to stop complaining about this. It's over. Apple
>>> saved over $6 billion by not including chargers
>>
>> Not only did Apple save a lot of money by not including chargers, but they
>> sell at least a stock of their branded chargers now to every store chain.
>>
>> Do you know if those Apple or Samsung chargers support PD and QC standards?
>
> I don't know.
>
> I thought that I read somewhere that USB-C PD 3.0 included QC 3.0
> compatibility so a USB-C PD 3.0 charger would fast-charge a QC 3.0
> device, but not vice-versa. But I can't find where I read that so it may
> not be true.
>
> All of the USB-C PD 3.0 chargers that I have do support QC3.0 as well,
> but none of those are Apple or Samsung chargers. I know that Anker's
> "Power IQ 3.0" supports both USB-C PD 3.0 and QC 3.0.

It's likely nobody wants the Apple charger because it's only PD.

Not QC.

That belongs in your document.

Because it matters.

A lot.

The Samsung charger is both.

On 1/17/2023 6:59 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> AJL wrote:

>> On my Samsung Galaxy S10+ (Android 12): Settings > Battery and
>> device care > Battery > More battery settings > Protect battery
>> switch to ON" Caption under switch: "To extend the lifespan of
>> your battery limit the charge to 85%".

> Does your setting look something like this on my free Samsung phone?
> <https://i.postimg.cc/VL6HGPGc/battery01.jpg> Android Battery
> Settings

Only your 1st and 4th pages are the same as mine. On my 1st page I found
it easy to miss the 'Battery' button since it looks more like an
battery information diagram than a button to press (to me). Thus it was
awhile before I discovered I could actually push it and found all that
stuff behind it...

AJL wrote:

>>> On my Samsung Galaxy S10+ (Android 12): Settings > Battery and
>>> device care > Battery > More battery settings > Protect battery
>>> switch to ON" Caption under switch: "To extend the lifespan of
>>> your battery limit the charge to 85%".
>
>> Does your setting look something like this on my free Samsung phone?
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/VL6HGPGc/battery01.jpg> Android Battery
>> Settings
>
> Only your 1st and 4th pages are the same as mine. On my 1st page I found
> it easy to miss the 'Battery' button since it looks more like an
> battery information diagram than a button to press (to me). Thus it was
> awhile before I discovered I could actually push it and found all that
> stuff behind it...

Thanks for responding as that's interesting because it means you don't have
the "Auto optimize daily" and "Auto restart at set times" and "Adaptive
Power Saving" options in that third screen, I guess.
<https://i.postimg.cc/VL6HGPGc/battery01.jpg> Android 12 Battery Settings

The only entry of those three that has an explanation is the last, which
says "Turn power saving on and off automatically based on your usage
pattern".

But at least you have "Adaptive battery", which says "Extend battery life
based on your phone usage", and the ability to turn "Fast charging" on or
off, and, of course, the "protect battery" feature which says "To extend
the lifespan of your battery, limit the maximum charge to 85%".

There are a whole bunch of other default battery settings on my el cheapo
(actually free) Samsung such as a battery setting for each & every app.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8Cm6hqWZ/battery07.jpg> Settings for every app

The more I look, the more battery care settings are in my battery settings
such as this "More battery settings" for "Sleeping apps" where there is an
option to "Put unused apps to sleep" as shown in this screenshot below.
<https://i.postimg.cc/0y9qM0hc/battery17.jpg> Background Usage Limits

I made all of these screenshots just now to show you what options I have
on my el cheapo (free) Samsung of low Total Cost of Ownership because if I
ever sell it, I will get back "something" which is always more than I paid.

Here you can see which apps are sleeping, and which are deep sleeping, and
which apps are be in the never sleeping apps listing as shown here.
<https://i.postimg.cc/28QDSK91/battery18.jpg> Control sleeping apps

Here you can see more power saving options, which changes the screen
refresh rate, and background network usage, syncing and location checking
is curtailed if necessary, and there are even additional limits such as
limiting the CPU speed to 70% and decreasing brightness by 10% and limit
apps and home screen which is described as "For maximum power saving, allow
only selected apps, limit all background activity, turn off Edge panels,
and change to a dark theme", which is grayed out for some reason on mine.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Bv69NQSF/battery19.jpg> Limit CPU Speed to 70%

Is that last option grayed out for you too?

What happens if you go to Android 12 > Settings > Battery and device care
and then you _longpress_ on any given item to bring up these extra screens?

I wonder how many of these nice features, if any, are on the iPhone?

*Steve should be adding all of this to his comparison document* because
Android gives you the control that nospam says nobody wants (which is his
way of saying Apple didn't give these options to their hapless customers).

On 2023-01-17 18:59, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> AJL wrote:
>
>> On my Samsung Galaxy S10+ (Android 12):
>> Settings > Battery and device care > Battery > More battery settings >
>> Protect battery switch to ON"
>> Caption under switch: "To extend the lifespan of your battery limit
>> the charge to 85%".
>
> Hi AJL,
>
> Does your setting look something like this on my free Samsung phone?
> <https://i.postimg.cc/VL6HGPGc/battery01.jpg> Android Battery Settings
>
> My el cheapo (actually free) Samsung came with a fast charger and a modern
> 5 amp hour battery, which, if you compare to today's laughably puny iPhone
> batteries, means Apple needs this setting more than we do.
>
> *The iPhone owner should be _embarrassed_ about their baby batteries*
>
> If you lose, as is often documented, 20% of your capacity after 500 cycles,
> then 20% of the laughably puny iPhone baby batteries drops them way below
> threshold far sooner than 20% of the huge modern Android batteries does.
>
> *Apple designed the iPhone baby batteries to die _sooner_ than Android*
>
> It's plain jane physics why iPhone batteries fail sooner than Androids.

Again:

Battery SIZE doesn't matter—matter LIFE matters.

AJL wrote:

>>> On my Samsung Galaxy S10+ (Android 12): Settings > Battery and
>>> device care > Battery > More battery settings > Protect battery
>>> switch to ON" Caption under switch: "To extend the lifespan of
>>> your battery limit the charge to 85%".
>
>> Does your setting look something like this on my free Samsung phone?
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/VL6HGPGc/battery01.jpg> Android Battery
>> Settings
>
> Only your 1st and 4th pages are the same as mine. On my 1st page I found
> it easy to miss the 'Battery' button since it looks more like an
> battery information diagram than a button to press (to me). Thus it was
> awhile before I discovered I could actually push it and found all that
> stuff behind it...

Thanks for responding as that's interesting because it means you don't have
the "Auto optimize daily" and "Auto restart at set times" and "Adaptive
Power Saving" options in that third screen, I guess.
<https://i.postimg.cc/VL6HGPGc/battery01.jpg> Android 12 Battery Settings

The only entry of those three that has an explanation is the last, which
says "Turn power saving on and off automatically based on your usage
pattern".

But at least you have "Adaptive battery", which says "Extend battery life
based on your phone usage", and the ability to turn "Fast charging" on or
off, and, of course, the "protect battery" feature which says "To extend
the lifespan of your battery, limit the maximum charge to 85%".

There are a whole bunch of other default battery settings on my el cheapo
(actually free) Samsung such as a battery setting for each & every app.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8Cm6hqWZ/battery07.jpg> Settings for every app

The more I look, the more battery care settings are in my battery settings
such as this "More battery settings" for "Sleeping apps" where there is an
option to "Put unused apps to sleep" as shown in this screenshot below.
<https://i.postimg.cc/0y9qM0hc/battery17.jpg> Background Usage Limits

I made all of these screenshots just now to show you what options I have
on my el cheapo (free) Samsung of low Total Cost of Ownership because if I
ever sell it, I will get back "something" which is always more than I paid.

Here you can see which apps are sleeping, and which are deep sleeping, and
which apps are be in the never sleeping apps listing as shown here.
<https://i.postimg.cc/28QDSK91/battery18.jpg> Control sleeping apps

Here you can see more power saving options, which changes the screen
refresh rate, and background network usage, syncing and location checking
is curtailed if necessary, and there are even additional limits such as
limiting the CPU speed to 70% and decreasing brightness by 10% and limit
apps and home screen which is described as "For maximum power saving, allow
only selected apps, limit all background activity, turn off Edge panels,
and change to a dark theme", which is grayed out for some reason on mine.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Bv69NQSF/battery19.jpg> Limit CPU Speed to 70%

Is that last option grayed out for you too?

What happens if you go to Android 12 > Settings > Battery and device care
and then you _longpress_ on any given item to bring up these extra screens?

I wonder how many of these nice features, if any, are on the iPhone?

*Steve should be adding all of this to his comparison document* because
Android gives you the control that nospam says nobody wants (which is his
way of saying Apple didn't give these options to their hapless customers).

On 2023-01-17 19:03, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>>> Android 12 phones have a "Protect Battery" capability which will stop
>>>> charging at a set percent to prolong the long term life of the phone.
>>>
>>> Are you sure that this is an Android feature, or is it just a Samsung
>>> feature?
>>
>> it's not android, although may be more than just samsung, and not
>> necessarily identical to what samsung did.
>
> This is the settings page on my el cheapo (free) samsung from T-Mobile.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/VL6HGPGc/battery01.jpg> Android Battery Settings

"what is adaptive battery"

'Reducing performance

One of the subtler ways Adaptive battery improves battery life is by
slightly reducing performance. Chips take a lot of power, and your
battery can last much longer if that power is reduced to match your
current needs.'

<https://www.androidauthority.com/android-adaptive-battery-explained-3223097/>

But what would a site called "Android Authority" know?

;-)

In article <tq7sf9$3jg6p$2@dont-email.me>, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

> "what is adaptive battery"
>
> 'Reducing performance
>
> One of the subtler ways Adaptive battery improves battery life is by
> slightly reducing performance. Chips take a lot of power, and your
> battery can last much longer if that power is reduced to match your
> current needs.'
>
> <https://www.androidauthority.com/android-adaptive-battery-explained-3223097/>

i think i've heard about slightly reducing performance before as part
of battery management before...

perhaps france might be interested in this...

In article <tq7o84$1iuf$1@gioia.aioe.org>, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

>
> It's likely nobody wants the Apple charger because it's only PD.
>
> Not QC.

it's the other way around.

pd is an industry standard.

qc is qualcomm proprietary and is being replaced by pd.

On 1/17/2023 8:10 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:

> <https://i.postimg.cc/Bv69NQSF/battery19.jpg> Is that last option
> grayed out for you too?

I don't have a Power Saving switch on screen 2 thus nothing grayed out
on a later screen. I do have a Wireless power sharing switch on that
screen that I don't see on yours. Apparently I can wireless charge
another phone by putting them back to back if needed but have never
needed or tried it.

> What happens if you go to Android 12 > Settings > Battery and device
> care and then you _longpress_ on any given item to bring up these
> extra screens?

Long press does nothing extra over what a short press does...

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 23:50:27 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> It's likely nobody wants the Apple charger because it's only PD.
>>
>> Not QC.
>
> it's the other way around.
>
> pd is an industry standard.
>
> qc is qualcomm proprietary and is being replaced by pd.

But why then did you say the opposite about lightning connectors?

Which one is the industry standard, lightning or usb-c?
And which cable is being replaced because it's not proprietary?

On 1/17/2023 6:56 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 1/17/2023 4:50 PM, sms wrote:
>
>> I think that it's [automatic charging stop to save battery] a
>> Samsung-only
>> feature. I have no phone with Android 12, but on a phone with Android 13
> > it's not there (nor is it there on my old Samsung Galaxy Note 9 with
> > Android 10).
>
> On my Samsung Galaxy S10+ (Android 12):
> Settings > Battery and device care > Battery > More battery settings >
> Protect battery switch to ON"
> Caption under switch: "To extend the lifespan of your battery limit the
> charge to 85%".

I checked my wife's S10E with Android 12 and it has that setting. Need
to keep that phone going since there are no new smaller Android devices
with a headphone jack and a MicroSD card slot.

On 1/17/2023 7:15 PM, JAB wrote:

<snip>

> It's likely nobody wants the Apple charger because it's only PD.

Why would an iPhone owner care if an Apple charger supports QC 3.0? They
aren't likely to be wanting to use it on an older Android device that is
QC3.0. Newer Android devices are USB-C PD/

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 23:17:23 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>> It's likely nobody wants the Apple charger because it's only PD.
>
> Why would an iPhone owner care if an Apple charger supports QC 3.0? They
> aren't likely to be wanting to use it on an older Android device that is
> QC3.0. Newer Android devices are USB-C PD/

Simple.
A charger that only supports half the devices is a substandard charger.

Maybe you don't own both Android & Apple devices, but many people do.
Maybe your family doesn't own both types of devices, but may others do.

Maybe you plan to forever own only Apple devices, but others might buy any
type of device in the future, whether it supports PD or QC or more likely
both.

You can pay $20 for a Samsung charger that charges all the fast charging PD
& QC devices out there any time you need it to, or, you pay $20 for a
half-spec substandard Apple charger that only charges half your devices.

Why buy a substandard Apple charger that doesn't even work for half your
devices when for the same price you can get a much better Samsung charger
that charges all your fast charging devices, not just half of them.

On 1/17/2023 7:15 PM, JAB wrote:

<snip>

> The Samsung charger is both.

Are you sure? The Samsung spec says "Power Delivery 3.0 PPS" at
<https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/mobile-accessories/phones/25w-travel-adapter-white-ep-ta800nwegus/#specs>.
It doesn't mention QC, but it may support it.

You have to be really careful here because Samsung sells both USB-C PD
chargers and QC3.0 chargers. Their newer phones are USB-C PD. Their
older models are QC.

QC4.0 is now USB-C PD compatible. I don't think that there is such a
thing as a USB-A QC4.0 charger, but I could be wrong, I think that all
the QC4.0 chargers are USB-C, and all of them are really USB-C PD
chargers that support QC4.0.

The best option is to buy after-market chargers, with a USB-C port, that
support both QC3.0 (or QC4.0) plus USB-C PD.

Other than proprietary chargers from Apple and Samsung, most newer,
non-OEM, USB-C PD chargers also support QC3.0 (or QC4.0) through the
USB-C port. But not all. Notably, some older Anker USB-C PD chargers
don't support QC). For Anker, it needs to say "PowerIQ 3.0" for it to
work with both PD and QC. Confusingly, Anker has multiple 511 Nano
products: the original 511 Nano, the 511 Nano Pro, and the 511 Nano 3.
The 511 Nano 3 is Power IQ3.0, the others are not. Further confusing
things are USB-C PD chargers that claim to support Samsung devices but
only support the newer USB-C PD Samsung phones, not the older USB-C QC
Samsung phones.

Name brand devices with a single USB-C port, that support both PD and QC
include the 20W UGreen 60449
<https://www.ugreen.com/products/20w-pd-usb-c-charger> ($8.44 at
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R7K2QMW>) and the 30W Anker 511 Nano 3
<https://www.anker.com/nano3> ($22.99 at
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B2MM1W65>). The latter is probably the
better choice if you have an iPhone Pro that is capable of 27W charging
or a Samsung S22 (though the S22 supports up to 45W charging). The
former is fine for iPhones that support only 18W charging.

Be especially careful of the no-name chargers that carrier stores try to
push as an alternative to OEM chargers. The sales people are unlikey to
know the intricacies of USB-C PD and Qualcomm QC.

On 1/18/2023 2:11 AM, sms wrote:

> Need
> to keep that phone going since there are no new smaller Android devices
> with a headphone jack and a MicroSD card slot.

There are 305 new Android 2022+ phones with both the sdslot & 3.5mm jack.
https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2022&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1

You can't find one phone you will like in over three hundred new models?

nospam wrote:

> i think i've heard about slightly reducing performance before as part
> of battery management before...
>
> perhaps france might be interested in this...

Your whole life people have been calling you stupid, nospam.
And statements like that are part of the reason why.

Your IQ is so low, nospam, you can't see the huge difference in a
manual setting to improve the lifetime of the battery versus a sleazy
attempt to throttle the CPU because of Apple's atrocious power design.

First, Apple designed iPhones with astoundingly atrocious flaws.

Then Apple _secretly_ throttled performance to make people buy new iPhones.
Furthermore, Apple was caught secretly backporting the release notes too.

Apple publicly lied about everything until they could lie no more, nospam.
Apple paid over a billion dollars for that so their lies weren't cost free.

That you can't see the difference is how I know your IQ is below normal.
You have no concept of what Apple did.

You're completely ignorant when it comes to everything about Apple.