On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:38:38 -0400, Michael Trew <mt999999@ymail.com>
wrote:

>On 7/13/2021 6:16 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 17:01:41 -0400, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:31:38 -0400, Michael Trew<mt999999@ymail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/13/2021 7:04 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> If I was planning on keeping it I would do something like that for my
>>>>> current econobox, which does not present a flat floor with the back
>>>>> seats down.
>>>>
>>>> You could always keep it for hauling, to spare the nice vehicle.
>>>
>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>
>> M$ has proven more than once that it has no idea what it's doing in
>> the automotive industry. The Ford Sync-1 was done by them and it's so
>> bad there were several class-action suits against them. I have one in
>> my truck and it's absolute junk. I don't use any of the "advanced"
>> features (phone isn't even paired with it).
>>
>> OTOH, the Sync-3 in my wife's '19 Mustang is perfect, by comparison.
>> It's easy to use and actually does what it's supposed to do without
>> losing its mind every time you get in the car. Of course, I know who
>> designed Sync-3. ;-)
>>
>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>
>My Grandmother has a Ford Focus (I think? Whatever their small car is
>circa 2014 - purchased new), and it has that Microsoft entertainment
>thing. Of course, she never uses it, and just drives the car. I assume
>that's why it's still "working".

Well, it's still "working" because she's never tried to use it. It's
designed broken.

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:34:08 -0400, Michael Trew <mt999999@ymail.com>
wrote:

>On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>
>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>
>I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that is
>my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old stuff
>without computers and touch screens!

No, I've never had wiring fail in old cars or door posts break off,
then the bandaid (weld) attempting to put the humpty car back
together, also failed within days. Fit and finish of those cars was
*perfect* and they never rusted out before they were paid for (when a
36mo loan was long). Yep, the good ol' days.

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 12:06:17 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 07:13:46 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 6:07:29 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:11:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 11:43:09 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 18:01:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> >> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 7:19:10 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 21:46:06 -0400, ads wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 16:23:44 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> >> >> ><teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>Over the past 4 generations of the Honda Odyssey, the floor has been
> >> >> >> >>getting more and more bumpy and unlevel. It gets harder to load stuff
> >> >> >> >>with each new 5 year cycle. This is the interior of my 2017 EX-L, with the
> >> >> >> >>rear bench stowed in the floor and the 2nd row seats removed.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the floor behind the front seats is
> >> >> >> >>5" lower than the rear of the cargo area. It's not sloped either - it's
> >> >> >> >>stepped. First there's a 3.5" drop, then another 1.5" - It's a real pain to
> >> >> >> >>load compared to the 2 previous generations which were at least flat
> >> >> >> >>front to rear.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>Looking towards the rear:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/MckLWvF.jpg
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>Looking towards the front:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/2OFiPPN.jpg
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>The 2018's and beyond are even worse.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>This is what built for my 17...
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>The rear platform will stay in the Ody 99.99% of the time (roughly). We
> >> >> >> >>rarely ever use the 3rd row split bench, which stows in the floor. In this
> >> >> >> >>picture, the 2nd row seats are in,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/pZUiomv.jpg
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>I left room for side wall protection when needed.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/ETiTWdv.jpg
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>I made an opening for the rear heat duct that's in the floor.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/tT70FYq.jpg
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>This front platform can be dropped into place when the 2nd row seats
> >> >> >> >>are removed.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/P6GYd56.jpg
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>As for the infamous carpeted 2 x 4's, the one on the right was the first
> >> >> >> >>of six, the one on the left was the last. Practice helps.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/7f0S3By.jpg
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >I've always described that vehicle as "The Honda Hearse" which seemed
> >> >> >> >especially appropriate for the black versions. You just made that use
> >> >> >> >possible ;-)
> >> >> >> When we were designing some of the cabin electronics, it was known as
> >> >> >> the Honda Oddity.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >So I can blame you for the weird shit that my infotainment system does?
> >> >> Only the audio.
> >> >
> >> >Be more specific. Audio as in sound only or audio as in the song info and other stuff
> >that appears on the screen when the audio is playing?
> >
> >> The hardware that makes noise. Audio amplifiers, specifically. Some
> >> of the other guys did the radios, I think. The center stack, screen
> >> and stuff, was done by a different company.
> >
> >Well, then you are off my sh*t list, for now. ;-)
> >
> >Can you find the guy that coded this "feature" and smack him upside
> >the head for me?
> >
> >Audio Source: Bluetooth, upper screen displays the song info:
> >
> >https://i.imgur.com/XEW6MmK.jpg
> >
> >Activate the right turn signal and the upper screen displays the side camera image:
> >
> >https://i.imgur.com/0Bk4lbQ.jpg
> >
> >When the turn signal turns off, the upper screen displays a *different* song info
> >screen, showing the song title twice. It then flashes the song title that's in the lower
> >box. Once per second for about 20 seconds. After that, it returns to the original
> >song info screen:
> >
> >https://i.imgur.com/8gnPeIM.jpg
> >
> >https://i.imgur.com/eR9tpj8.jpg
> >
> >What possible purpose could that serve?
> >
> Does it ever get back to the original state (full screen)?

Yes, like I said, after the 20 seconds of flashing the song title, it goes back to the
"normal" song info screen.

> It is odd behavior.

Sure is. There are other functions that change what is displayed on the upper
screen, like making a phone call, and they all cause the flashing song title behavior.

> It looks like a selection panel with nothing to select.

The upper screen is all display. The touchscreen for the audio system is down below.

More fun stuff:

When you get a text on your smartphone, you get a message on the upper screen that
tells you who it's from and you can have the audio system read it to you. That's fine.

However, when you *send* a text, you get the same "From" message and the
same option to have it read. e.g. if I send a text to Kevin, the screen will tell me
that I *received* a text from Kevin and ask me if I want it read. It doesn't go away
until you choose Ignore, which requires a dial turn to select Ignore and then
a button press.

Have you ever parked, wanted to turn off the engine but continue listening to what's
playing on the audio system? You have to leave the van in gear and press the Start/Stop
button. The engine will shut off and the audio system will stay on (ACC mode). Now you
can put the van in Park...if you remember. ;-)

How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
it again to shut the van off.

Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.

I hate it because it's putting extra wear and tear on systems. I always let it come
to steady state in Run mode because I don't want to turn it off midway through
it's "start-up procedure". PITA just to use the ACC mode.

That's just some of the weird stuff that the infotainment system does. Terrible
design, coding, etc.

On 7/13/2021 5:20 PM, Markem618 wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 17:17:27 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/13/2021 4:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:31:38 -0400, Michael Trew <mt999999@ymail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/13/2021 7:04 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> If I was planning on keeping it I would do something like that for my
>>>>> current econobox, which does not present a flat floor with the back
>>>>> seats down.
>>>>
>>>> You could always keep it for hauling, to spare the nice vehicle.
>>>
>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>
>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>>
>>
>> The Microsoft, what ever, is in all of these vehicles. That is not the
>> problem unless YOUR's is defective. And the solution is to replace the
>> defective part.
>
> Ford dropped the alliance with Microsoft a number of version of Sync
> ago. It was crap.
>

Perhaps, but not for everyone had issues with the system.

On 7/14/2021 10:34 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> Nahh.  The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>> intervals.  Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>> minute, put the fuse back.  And of course it won't run if I just pull
>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>
>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>
> I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that is
> my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles.  I like the old stuff
> without computers and touch screens!

You have to go back to the 70's to avoid computers.

I will take the computers any day.

In 1980 Oldsmobile introduced the ECM. Suddenly V6 engines were out
performing v8's and getting better gas mileage.

On 7/14/2021 11:20 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:34:08 -0400, Michael Trew <mt999999@ymail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>
>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>
>> I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that is
>> my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old stuff
>> without computers and touch screens!
>
> No, I've never had wiring fail in old cars or door posts break off,
> then the bandaid (weld) attempting to put the humpty car back
> together, also failed within days. Fit and finish of those cars was
> *perfect* and they never rusted out before they were paid for (when a
> 36mo loan was long). Yep, the good ol' days.
>

LOL, Exactly.

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 13:31:41 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 7/13/2021 5:20 PM, Markem618 wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 17:17:27 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/13/2021 4:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:31:38 -0400, Michael Trew <mt999999@ymail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/13/2021 7:04 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> If I was planning on keeping it I would do something like that for my
>>>>>> current econobox, which does not present a flat floor with the back
>>>>>> seats down.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could always keep it for hauling, to spare the nice vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>>
>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The Microsoft, what ever, is in all of these vehicles. That is not the
>>> problem unless YOUR's is defective. And the solution is to replace the
>>> defective part.
>>
>> Ford dropped the alliance with Microsoft a number of version of Sync
>> ago. It was crap.
>>
>
>
>Perhaps, but not for everyone had issues with the system.

My wife has a 2012 Fusion, so I have experienced the wonderful Sync by
Microsoft. It has that Microsoft feel of way many controls buried in
sub menus.

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 10:00:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 12:06:17 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 07:13:46 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 6:07:29 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:11:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 11:43:09 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 18:01:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> >> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 7:19:10 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 21:46:06 -0400, ads wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 16:23:44 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> >> >> ><teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >>Over the past 4 generations of the Honda Odyssey, the floor has been
>> >> >> >> >>getting more and more bumpy and unlevel. It gets harder to load stuff
>> >> >> >> >>with each new 5 year cycle. This is the interior of my 2017 EX-L, with the
>> >> >> >> >>rear bench stowed in the floor and the 2nd row seats removed.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the floor behind the front seats is
>> >> >> >> >>5" lower than the rear of the cargo area. It's not sloped either - it's
>> >> >> >> >>stepped. First there's a 3.5" drop, then another 1.5" - It's a real pain to
>> >> >> >> >>load compared to the 2 previous generations which were at least flat
>> >> >> >> >>front to rear.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>Looking towards the rear:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/MckLWvF.jpg
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>Looking towards the front:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/2OFiPPN.jpg
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>The 2018's and beyond are even worse.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>This is what built for my 17...
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>The rear platform will stay in the Ody 99.99% of the time (roughly). We
>> >> >> >> >>rarely ever use the 3rd row split bench, which stows in the floor. In this
>> >> >> >> >>picture, the 2nd row seats are in,
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/pZUiomv.jpg
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>I left room for side wall protection when needed.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/ETiTWdv.jpg
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>I made an opening for the rear heat duct that's in the floor.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/tT70FYq.jpg
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>This front platform can be dropped into place when the 2nd row seats
>> >> >> >> >>are removed.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/P6GYd56.jpg
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>As for the infamous carpeted 2 x 4's, the one on the right was the first
>> >> >> >> >>of six, the one on the left was the last. Practice helps.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/7f0S3By.jpg
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I've always described that vehicle as "The Honda Hearse" which seemed
>> >> >> >> >especially appropriate for the black versions. You just made that use
>> >> >> >> >possible ;-)
>> >> >> >> When we were designing some of the cabin electronics, it was known as
>> >> >> >> the Honda Oddity.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >So I can blame you for the weird shit that my infotainment system does?
>> >> >> Only the audio.
>> >> >
>> >> >Be more specific. Audio as in sound only or audio as in the song info and other stuff
>> >that appears on the screen when the audio is playing?
>> >
>> >> The hardware that makes noise. Audio amplifiers, specifically. Some
>> >> of the other guys did the radios, I think. The center stack, screen
>> >> and stuff, was done by a different company.
>> >
>> >Well, then you are off my sh*t list, for now. ;-)
>> >
>> >Can you find the guy that coded this "feature" and smack him upside
>> >the head for me?
>> >
>> >Audio Source: Bluetooth, upper screen displays the song info:
>> >
>> >https://i.imgur.com/XEW6MmK.jpg
>> >
>> >Activate the right turn signal and the upper screen displays the side camera image:
>> >
>> >https://i.imgur.com/0Bk4lbQ.jpg
>> >
>> >When the turn signal turns off, the upper screen displays a *different* song info
>> >screen, showing the song title twice. It then flashes the song title that's in the lower
>> >box. Once per second for about 20 seconds. After that, it returns to the original
>> >song info screen:
>> >
>> >https://i.imgur.com/8gnPeIM.jpg
>> >
>> >https://i.imgur.com/eR9tpj8.jpg
>> >
>> >What possible purpose could that serve?
>> >
>> Does it ever get back to the original state (full screen)?
>
>Yes, like I said, after the 20 seconds of flashing the song title, it goes back to the
>"normal" song info screen.
>
>> It is odd behavior.
>
>Sure is. There are other functions that change what is displayed on the upper
>screen, like making a phone call, and they all cause the flashing song title behavior.
>
>> It looks like a selection panel with nothing to select.
>
>The upper screen is all display. The touchscreen for the audio system is down below.
>
>More fun stuff:
>
>When you get a text on your smartphone, you get a message on the upper screen that
>tells you who it's from and you can have the audio system read it to you. That's fine.
>
>However, when you *send* a text, you get the same "From" message and the
>same option to have it read. e.g. if I send a text to Kevin, the screen will tell me
>that I *received* a text from Kevin and ask me if I want it read. It doesn't go away
>until you choose Ignore, which requires a dial turn to select Ignore and then
>a button press.

Meanwhile you drive into a tree.

>Have you ever parked, wanted to turn off the engine but continue listening to what's
>playing on the audio system? You have to leave the van in gear and press the Start/Stop
>button. The engine will shut off and the audio system will stay on (ACC mode). Now you
>can put the van in Park...if you remember. ;-)

I hate start/stop. I rented a car with S/S and it just about drove me
crazy. I'd never buy one. There should be a way to disable it. I
sure wouldn't buy one. SWMBO has a push-to-start but it just acts
like a key (with the dongle in her purse).

>How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
>van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
>it again to shut the van off.
>
>Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.

Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
It was a PITA to design to, also.

>I hate it because it's putting extra wear and tear on systems. I always let it come
>to steady state in Run mode because I don't want to turn it off midway through
>it's "start-up procedure". PITA just to use the ACC mode.
>
>That's just some of the weird stuff that the infotainment system does. Terrible
>design, coding, etc.

Click here to read the complete article

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 13:31:41 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 7/13/2021 5:20 PM, Markem618 wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 17:17:27 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/13/2021 4:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:31:38 -0400, Michael Trew <mt999999@ymail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/13/2021 7:04 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> If I was planning on keeping it I would do something like that for my
>>>>>> current econobox, which does not present a flat floor with the back
>>>>>> seats down.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could always keep it for hauling, to spare the nice vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>>
>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The Microsoft, what ever, is in all of these vehicles. That is not the
>>> problem unless YOUR's is defective. And the solution is to replace the
>>> defective part.
>>
>> Ford dropped the alliance with Microsoft a number of version of Sync
>> ago. It was crap.
>>
>
>
>Perhaps, but not for everyone had issues with the system.

As I said earlier, there are enough who have to start several
class-action law suits. I have one in my truck. Absolutely useless
for anything other than an AM/FM radio. Even the Aux-In doesn't work.
Forget USB or Bluetooth.

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 10:00:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 12:06:17 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 07:13:46 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 6:07:29 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:11:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> >> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 11:43:09 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> >> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 18:01:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> >> >> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 7:19:10 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 21:46:06 -0400, ads wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 16:23:44 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> >> >> >> ><teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >>Over the past 4 generations of the Honda Odyssey, the floor has been
> >> >> >> >> >>getting more and more bumpy and unlevel. It gets harder to load stuff
> >> >> >> >> >>with each new 5 year cycle. This is the interior of my 2017 EX-L, with the
> >> >> >> >> >>rear bench stowed in the floor and the 2nd row seats removed.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the floor behind the front seats is
> >> >> >> >> >>5" lower than the rear of the cargo area. It's not sloped either - it's
> >> >> >> >> >>stepped. First there's a 3.5" drop, then another 1.5" - It's a real pain to
> >> >> >> >> >>load compared to the 2 previous generations which were at least flat
> >> >> >> >> >>front to rear.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>Looking towards the rear:
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/MckLWvF.jpg
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>Looking towards the front:
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/2OFiPPN.jpg
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>The 2018's and beyond are even worse.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>This is what built for my 17...
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>The rear platform will stay in the Ody 99.99% of the time (roughly). We
> >> >> >> >> >>rarely ever use the 3rd row split bench, which stows in the floor. In this
> >> >> >> >> >>picture, the 2nd row seats are in,
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/pZUiomv.jpg
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>I left room for side wall protection when needed.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/ETiTWdv.jpg
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>I made an opening for the rear heat duct that's in the floor.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/tT70FYq.jpg
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>This front platform can be dropped into place when the 2nd row seats
> >> >> >> >> >>are removed.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/P6GYd56.jpg
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>As for the infamous carpeted 2 x 4's, the one on the right was the first
> >> >> >> >> >>of six, the one on the left was the last. Practice helps.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/7f0S3By.jpg
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >I've always described that vehicle as "The Honda Hearse" which seemed
> >> >> >> >> >especially appropriate for the black versions. You just made that use
> >> >> >> >> >possible ;-)
> >> >> >> >> When we were designing some of the cabin electronics, it was known as
> >> >> >> >> the Honda Oddity.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >So I can blame you for the weird shit that my infotainment system does?
> >> >> >> Only the audio.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Be more specific. Audio as in sound only or audio as in the song info and other stuff
> >> >that appears on the screen when the audio is playing?
> >> >
> >> >> The hardware that makes noise. Audio amplifiers, specifically. Some
> >> >> of the other guys did the radios, I think. The center stack, screen
> >> >> and stuff, was done by a different company.
> >> >
> >> >Well, then you are off my sh*t list, for now. ;-)
> >> >
> >> >Can you find the guy that coded this "feature" and smack him upside
> >> >the head for me?
> >> >
> >> >Audio Source: Bluetooth, upper screen displays the song info:
> >> >
> >> >https://i.imgur.com/XEW6MmK.jpg
> >> >
> >> >Activate the right turn signal and the upper screen displays the side camera image:
> >> >
> >> >https://i.imgur.com/0Bk4lbQ.jpg
> >> >
> >> >When the turn signal turns off, the upper screen displays a *different* song info
> >> >screen, showing the song title twice. It then flashes the song title that's in the lower
> >> >box. Once per second for about 20 seconds. After that, it returns to the original
> >> >song info screen:
> >> >
> >> >https://i.imgur.com/8gnPeIM.jpg
> >> >
> >> >https://i.imgur.com/eR9tpj8.jpg
> >> >
> >> >What possible purpose could that serve?
> >> >
> >> Does it ever get back to the original state (full screen)?
> >
> >Yes, like I said, after the 20 seconds of flashing the song title, it goes back to the
> >"normal" song info screen.
> >
> >> It is odd behavior.
> >
> >Sure is. There are other functions that change what is displayed on the upper
> >screen, like making a phone call, and they all cause the flashing song title behavior.
> >
> >> It looks like a selection panel with nothing to select.
> >
> >The upper screen is all display. The touchscreen for the audio system is down below.
> >
> >More fun stuff:
> >
> >When you get a text on your smartphone, you get a message on the upper screen that
> >tells you who it's from and you can have the audio system read it to you. That's fine.
> >
> >However, when you *send* a text, you get the same "From" message and the
> >same option to have it read. e.g. if I send a text to Kevin, the screen will tell me
> >that I *received* a text from Kevin and ask me if I want it read. It doesn't go away
> >until you choose Ignore, which requires a dial turn to select Ignore and then
> >a button press.
> Meanwhile you drive into a tree.
> >Have you ever parked, wanted to turn off the engine but continue listening to what's
> >playing on the audio system? You have to leave the van in gear and press the Start/Stop
> >button. The engine will shut off and the audio system will stay on (ACC mode). Now you
> >can put the van in Park...if you remember. ;-)
> I hate start/stop. I rented a car with S/S and it just about drove me
> crazy. I'd never buy one. There should be a way to disable it. I
> sure wouldn't buy one. SWMBO has a push-to-start but it just acts
> like a key (with the dongle in her purse).

DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> writes:
>On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:

>> >
>> >Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
>> It was a PITA to design to, also.
>
>Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?

Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
to park facing downslope.

However, the dash mounted 'push/stop' buttons just trigger a series of
functions in the EC; mine works flawlessly.

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:34:08 -0400, Michael Trew <mt999999@ymail.com>
wrote:

>On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>
>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>
>I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that is
>my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old stuff
>without computers and touch screens!

In my case it worked out to a "free" commute--the payments on a used
plug-in were less than the cost of gas for the Jeep. To tell you the
truth though, when the thing is behaving it's nice enough that I'm
seriously thinking about plonking down the cash for a Tesla.

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:38:38 -0400, Michael Trew <mt999999@ymail.com>
wrote:

>On 7/13/2021 6:16 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 17:01:41 -0400, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:31:38 -0400, Michael Trew<mt999999@ymail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/13/2021 7:04 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> If I was planning on keeping it I would do something like that for my
>>>>> current econobox, which does not present a flat floor with the back
>>>>> seats down.
>>>>
>>>> You could always keep it for hauling, to spare the nice vehicle.
>>>
>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>
>> M$ has proven more than once that it has no idea what it's doing in
>> the automotive industry. The Ford Sync-1 was done by them and it's so
>> bad there were several class-action suits against them. I have one in
>> my truck and it's absolute junk. I don't use any of the "advanced"
>> features (phone isn't even paired with it).
>>
>> OTOH, the Sync-3 in my wife's '19 Mustang is perfect, by comparison.
>> It's easy to use and actually does what it's supposed to do without
>> losing its mind every time you get in the car. Of course, I know who
>> designed Sync-3. ;-)
>>
>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>
>My Grandmother has a Ford Focus (I think? Whatever their small car is
>circa 2014 - purchased new), and it has that Microsoft entertainment
>thing. Of course, she never uses it, and just drives the car. I assume
>that's why it's still "working".

I used to pair my phone with it (the navigation on the thing is
worthless and it's nice to hear an ebook or music on the big speakers)
but every time it craps out it resets the Bluetooth and I finally
stopped bothering to re-pair the phone.

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 6:41:07 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
> >On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>
> >> >
> >> >Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
> >> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
> >> It was a PITA to design to, also.
> >
> >Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
> Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
> to park facing downslope.
>
> However, the dash mounted 'push/stop' buttons just trigger a series of
> functions in the EC; mine works flawlessly.

I agree.

Question: How do you get in and out of ACC mode? Do you have to leave the
vehicle in gear and use the Start/Stop button? Do you then have to go through
Run mode to turn ACC off?

The Run mode portion is the part that I dislike.

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:06:43 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:38:38 -0400, Michael Trew <mt999999@ymail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 7/13/2021 6:16 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 17:01:41 -0400, J. Clarke
>>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:31:38 -0400, Michael Trew<mt999999@ymail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/13/2021 7:04 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> If I was planning on keeping it I would do something like that for my
>>>>>> current econobox, which does not present a flat floor with the back
>>>>>> seats down.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could always keep it for hauling, to spare the nice vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>
>>> M$ has proven more than once that it has no idea what it's doing in
>>> the automotive industry. The Ford Sync-1 was done by them and it's so
>>> bad there were several class-action suits against them. I have one in
>>> my truck and it's absolute junk. I don't use any of the "advanced"
>>> features (phone isn't even paired with it).
>>>
>>> OTOH, the Sync-3 in my wife's '19 Mustang is perfect, by comparison.
>>> It's easy to use and actually does what it's supposed to do without
>>> losing its mind every time you get in the car. Of course, I know who
>>> designed Sync-3. ;-)
>>>
>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>
>>My Grandmother has a Ford Focus (I think? Whatever their small car is
>>circa 2014 - purchased new), and it has that Microsoft entertainment
>>thing. Of course, she never uses it, and just drives the car. I assume
>>that's why it's still "working".
>
>I used to pair my phone with it (the navigation on the thing is
>worthless and it's nice to hear an ebook or music on the big speakers)
>but every time it craps out it resets the Bluetooth and I finally
>stopped bothering to re-pair the phone.

I just use a flash drive for music in the F 150.

On 7/14/2021 4:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 10:00:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 12:06:17 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 07:13:46 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>>> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 6:07:29 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:11:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>>>>> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 11:43:09 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 18:01:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 7:19:10 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 21:46:06 -0400, ads wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 16:23:44 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>>>>> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Over the past 4 generations of the Honda Odyssey, the floor has been
>>>>>>>>>>>> getting more and more bumpy and unlevel. It gets harder to load stuff
>>>>>>>>>>>> with each new 5 year cycle. This is the interior of my 2017 EX-L, with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> rear bench stowed in the floor and the 2nd row seats removed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the floor behind the front seats is
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5" lower than the rear of the cargo area. It's not sloped either - it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> stepped. First there's a 3.5" drop, then another 1.5" - It's a real pain to
>>>>>>>>>>>> load compared to the 2 previous generations which were at least flat
>>>>>>>>>>>> front to rear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking towards the rear:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/MckLWvF.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking towards the front:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/2OFiPPN.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The 2018's and beyond are even worse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is what built for my 17...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The rear platform will stay in the Ody 99.99% of the time (roughly). We
>>>>>>>>>>>> rarely ever use the 3rd row split bench, which stows in the floor. In this
>>>>>>>>>>>> picture, the 2nd row seats are in,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/pZUiomv.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I left room for side wall protection when needed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/ETiTWdv.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I made an opening for the rear heat duct that's in the floor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/tT70FYq.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This front platform can be dropped into place when the 2nd row seats
>>>>>>>>>>>> are removed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/P6GYd56.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the infamous carpeted 2 x 4's, the one on the right was the first
>>>>>>>>>>>> of six, the one on the left was the last. Practice helps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/7f0S3By.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've always described that vehicle as "The Honda Hearse" which seemed
>>>>>>>>>>> especially appropriate for the black versions. You just made that use
>>>>>>>>>>> possible ;-)
>>>>>>>>>> When we were designing some of the cabin electronics, it was known as
>>>>>>>>>> the Honda Oddity.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I can blame you for the weird shit that my infotainment system does?
>>>>>>>> Only the audio.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Be more specific. Audio as in sound only or audio as in the song info and other stuff
>>>>> that appears on the screen when the audio is playing?
>>>>>
>>>>>> The hardware that makes noise. Audio amplifiers, specifically. Some
>>>>>> of the other guys did the radios, I think. The center stack, screen
>>>>>> and stuff, was done by a different company.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, then you are off my sh*t list, for now. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you find the guy that coded this "feature" and smack him upside
>>>>> the head for me?
>>>>>
>>>>> Audio Source: Bluetooth, upper screen displays the song info:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/XEW6MmK.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Activate the right turn signal and the upper screen displays the side camera image:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/0Bk4lbQ.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> When the turn signal turns off, the upper screen displays a *different* song info
>>>>> screen, showing the song title twice. It then flashes the song title that's in the lower
>>>>> box. Once per second for about 20 seconds. After that, it returns to the original
>>>>> song info screen:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/8gnPeIM.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/eR9tpj8.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> What possible purpose could that serve?
>>>>>
>>>> Does it ever get back to the original state (full screen)?
>>>
>>> Yes, like I said, after the 20 seconds of flashing the song title, it goes back to the
>>> "normal" song info screen.
>>>
>>>> It is odd behavior.
>>>
>>> Sure is. There are other functions that change what is displayed on the upper
>>> screen, like making a phone call, and they all cause the flashing song title behavior.
>>>
>>>> It looks like a selection panel with nothing to select.
>>>
>>> The upper screen is all display. The touchscreen for the audio system is down below.
>>>
>>> More fun stuff:
>>>
>>> When you get a text on your smartphone, you get a message on the upper screen that
>>> tells you who it's from and you can have the audio system read it to you. That's fine.
>>>
>>> However, when you *send* a text, you get the same "From" message and the
>>> same option to have it read. e.g. if I send a text to Kevin, the screen will tell me
>>> that I *received* a text from Kevin and ask me if I want it read. It doesn't go away
>>> until you choose Ignore, which requires a dial turn to select Ignore and then
>>> a button press.
>> Meanwhile you drive into a tree.
>>> Have you ever parked, wanted to turn off the engine but continue listening to what's
>>> playing on the audio system? You have to leave the van in gear and press the Start/Stop
>>> button. The engine will shut off and the audio system will stay on (ACC mode). Now you
>>> can put the van in Park...if you remember. ;-)
>> I hate start/stop. I rented a car with S/S and it just about drove me
>> crazy. I'd never buy one. There should be a way to disable it. I
>> sure wouldn't buy one. SWMBO has a push-to-start but it just acts
>> like a key (with the dongle in her purse).
>
> Are we talking about the same thing? I am talking about Push To Start. The button is
> is a Start/Stop button. *Sort of* acts like a key with the fob nearby.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/2SunVXR.jpg
>
> How do you get in and out of ACC mode in her car? You know, to listen to the radio
> without the engine running.

On 7/14/2021 6:41 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 6:41:07 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>>>> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
>>>> It was a PITA to design to, also.
>>>
>>> Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
>> Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
>> to park facing downslope.
>>
>> However, the dash mounted 'push/stop' buttons just trigger a series of
>> functions in the EC; mine works flawlessly.
>
> I agree.
>
> Question: How do you get in and out of ACC mode? Do you have to leave the
> vehicle in gear and use the Start/Stop button? Do you then have to go through
> Run mode to turn ACC off?
>
> The Run mode portion is the part that I dislike.
>

Our Toyota and my F150 work pretty much the same.

To go to ACC mode press the button and nothing else. If you depress the
brake petal the engine will start. Just like a vehicle with a keyed
ignition switch. It only works in ACC mode too if you do not depress
the brake pedal.

To switch off, press the switch again, and do not depress the brake pedal.

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 8:06:02 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 7/14/2021 6:41 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 6:41:07 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
> >>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
> >>>> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
> >>>> It was a PITA to design to, also.
> >>>
> >>> Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
> >> Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
> >> to park facing downslope.
> >>
> >> However, the dash mounted 'push/stop' buttons just trigger a series of
> >> functions in the EC; mine works flawlessly.
> >
> > I agree.
> >
> > Question: How do you get in and out of ACC mode? Do you have to leave the
> > vehicle in gear and use the Start/Stop button? Do you then have to go through
> > Run mode to turn ACC off?
> >
> > The Run mode portion is the part that I dislike.
> >
> Our Toyota and my F150 work pretty much the same.
>
> To go to ACC mode press the button and nothing else. If you depress the
> brake petal the engine will start. Just like a vehicle with a keyed
> ignition switch. It only works in ACC mode too if you do not depress
> the brake pedal.
>
> To switch off, press the switch again, and do not depress the brake pedal.

Not in my vehicle. If I press the button again while in ACC mode, the vehicle goes
into Run mode. The mode when the vehicle does the lamp test, sets all the relays
to be where they need to be to run the vehicle, turns the HVAC system and blowers
on, and a bunch of other stuff. Basically everything the ECM needs to do to Run the
vehicle except engage the starter. I then have to Press the button *again* to shut the
vehicle down completely.
That's not how it works in a key start vehicle. To turn ACC mode off with a keyed
ignition, you simply turn it off. Move the key from ACC or 1 or whatever the vehicle
uses to designate ACC, to Off. You go from ACC to full off in one step. No Run mode
involved.

I see going through Run mode as a possible cause of premature failure of some
system or another, especially in vehicles that are so dependent on their electronics.
That's why I always pause to let the Run mode reach steady state before pressing the
button again to shut it all down. I'm not comfortable with a quick push-push which
would stop the Run mode startup process. To me, it feels like I'm turning on a computer
and then yanking the power cord before the fans and disk drives are up to full speed. The
ECU is mid-way through it's boot process and the power gets yanked. I wouldn't do that
to a PC so I don't do it to my vehicle.

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 14:49:20 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 10:00:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 12:06:17 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 07:13:46 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 6:07:29 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:11:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> >> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 11:43:09 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 18:01:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> >> >> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 7:19:10 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 21:46:06 -0400, ads wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 16:23:44 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> >> >> >> ><teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>Over the past 4 generations of the Honda Odyssey, the floor has been
>> >> >> >> >> >>getting more and more bumpy and unlevel. It gets harder to load stuff
>> >> >> >> >> >>with each new 5 year cycle. This is the interior of my 2017 EX-L, with the
>> >> >> >> >> >>rear bench stowed in the floor and the 2nd row seats removed.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the floor behind the front seats is
>> >> >> >> >> >>5" lower than the rear of the cargo area. It's not sloped either - it's
>> >> >> >> >> >>stepped. First there's a 3.5" drop, then another 1.5" - It's a real pain to
>> >> >> >> >> >>load compared to the 2 previous generations which were at least flat
>> >> >> >> >> >>front to rear.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>Looking towards the rear:
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/MckLWvF.jpg
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>Looking towards the front:
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/2OFiPPN.jpg
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>The 2018's and beyond are even worse.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>This is what built for my 17...
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>The rear platform will stay in the Ody 99.99% of the time (roughly). We
>> >> >> >> >> >>rarely ever use the 3rd row split bench, which stows in the floor. In this
>> >> >> >> >> >>picture, the 2nd row seats are in,
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/pZUiomv.jpg
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>I left room for side wall protection when needed.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/ETiTWdv.jpg
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>I made an opening for the rear heat duct that's in the floor.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/tT70FYq.jpg
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>This front platform can be dropped into place when the 2nd row seats
>> >> >> >> >> >>are removed.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/P6GYd56.jpg
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>As for the infamous carpeted 2 x 4's, the one on the right was the first
>> >> >> >> >> >>of six, the one on the left was the last. Practice helps.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>https://i.imgur.com/7f0S3By.jpg
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >I've always described that vehicle as "The Honda Hearse" which seemed
>> >> >> >> >> >especially appropriate for the black versions. You just made that use
>> >> >> >> >> >possible ;-)
>> >> >> >> >> When we were designing some of the cabin electronics, it was known as
>> >> >> >> >> the Honda Oddity.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >So I can blame you for the weird shit that my infotainment system does?
>> >> >> >> Only the audio.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Be more specific. Audio as in sound only or audio as in the song info and other stuff
>> >> >that appears on the screen when the audio is playing?
>> >> >
>> >> >> The hardware that makes noise. Audio amplifiers, specifically. Some
>> >> >> of the other guys did the radios, I think. The center stack, screen
>> >> >> and stuff, was done by a different company.
>> >> >
>> >> >Well, then you are off my sh*t list, for now. ;-)
>> >> >
>> >> >Can you find the guy that coded this "feature" and smack him upside
>> >> >the head for me?
>> >> >
>> >> >Audio Source: Bluetooth, upper screen displays the song info:
>> >> >
>> >> >https://i.imgur.com/XEW6MmK.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> >Activate the right turn signal and the upper screen displays the side camera image:
>> >> >
>> >> >https://i.imgur.com/0Bk4lbQ.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> >When the turn signal turns off, the upper screen displays a *different* song info
>> >> >screen, showing the song title twice. It then flashes the song title that's in the lower
>> >> >box. Once per second for about 20 seconds. After that, it returns to the original
>> >> >song info screen:
>> >> >
>> >> >https://i.imgur.com/8gnPeIM.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> >https://i.imgur.com/eR9tpj8.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> >What possible purpose could that serve?
>> >> >
>> >> Does it ever get back to the original state (full screen)?
>> >
>> >Yes, like I said, after the 20 seconds of flashing the song title, it goes back to the
>> >"normal" song info screen.
>> >
>> >> It is odd behavior.
>> >
>> >Sure is. There are other functions that change what is displayed on the upper
>> >screen, like making a phone call, and they all cause the flashing song title behavior.
>> >
>> >> It looks like a selection panel with nothing to select.
>> >
>> >The upper screen is all display. The touchscreen for the audio system is down below.
>> >
>> >More fun stuff:
>> >
>> >When you get a text on your smartphone, you get a message on the upper screen that
>> >tells you who it's from and you can have the audio system read it to you. That's fine.
>> >
>> >However, when you *send* a text, you get the same "From" message and the
>> >same option to have it read. e.g. if I send a text to Kevin, the screen will tell me
>> >that I *received* a text from Kevin and ask me if I want it read. It doesn't go away
>> >until you choose Ignore, which requires a dial turn to select Ignore and then
>> >a button press.
>> Meanwhile you drive into a tree.
>> >Have you ever parked, wanted to turn off the engine but continue listening to what's
>> >playing on the audio system? You have to leave the van in gear and press the Start/Stop
>> >button. The engine will shut off and the audio system will stay on (ACC mode). Now you
>> >can put the van in Park...if you remember. ;-)
>> I hate start/stop. I rented a car with S/S and it just about drove me
>> crazy. I'd never buy one. There should be a way to disable it. I
>> sure wouldn't buy one. SWMBO has a push-to-start but it just acts
>> like a key (with the dongle in her purse).
>
>Are we talking about the same thing? I am talking about Push To Start. The button is
>is a Start/Stop button. *Sort of* acts like a key with the fob nearby.
>
>https://i.imgur.com/2SunVXR.jpg

On 7/14/2021 1:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Have you ever parked, wanted to turn off the engine but continue listening to what's
> playing on the audio system? You have to leave the van in gear and press the Start/Stop
> button. The engine will shut off and the audio system will stay on (ACC mode). Now you
> can put the van in Park...if you remember.;-)
>
> How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
> van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
> it again to shut the van off.
>
> Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>
> I hate it because it's putting extra wear and tear on systems. I always let it come
> to steady state in Run mode because I don't want to turn it off midway through
> it's "start-up procedure". PITA just to use the ACC mode.
>
> That's just some of the weird stuff that the infotainment system does. Terrible
> design, coding, etc.

That's awful... I can cut the ignition key and throw the shifter into
neutral, and roll to a stop in a parking lot. Throw it back in gear,
and engage parking brake (if it works)... key out, and get moving. Key
can come out sooner if you're stopping in a straight line (wheel locks
up with the key out).

Thank God for my simple cars; I'd lose my mind with all of that madness.
I get irritated enough hopping back into an automatic transmission car
that has to be in "PARK" to remove the key, or "NEUTRAL" to start.
Radio cuts off when you cut the key off; on when the key is on. Nice
and simple!

On 7/14/2021 6:41 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
> to park facing downslope.

HAHA, that's a good one. I've gone 3 months on a battery that was bad
enough that it had to be push started every time.

I have a push-button start car now... the key in my '93 Metro doesn't do
anything when you turn it all the way, so you have to push this fancy
button hacked into the dash board to kick the ignition solenoid on.
Don't bump it when the engine's running, or you'll shear the teeth off
of the flywheel -- or the gears off of the starter - maybe both.

On 7/14/2021 8:05 PM, Leon wrote:
> If you depress the brake petal the engine will start. Just like a
> vehicle with a keyed ignition switch.

Do you have to depress the brake to start a modern key'd car? I've
driven some where the brake must be applied to shift out of park, but
never to start it.

On 7/14/2021 10:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> "Start/Stop" is no more. For some reason customers didn't like their
> engine shutting off at every stoplight.

I couldn't help but to think that those cars are rather inefficient...
in the manner that, can you think of how fast those starters are going
to wear out? What happens when that technology fails and the car fails
to restart... then you're stranded at the stop light with people laying
on their horns. No thanks, just keep my engine running for a minute.

On 7/14/2021 12:14 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:38:38 -0400, Michael Trew<mt999999@ymail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/13/2021 6:16 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 17:01:41 -0400, J. Clarke
>>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:31:38 -0400, Michael Trew<mt999999@ymail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/13/2021 7:04 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> If I was planning on keeping it I would do something like that for my
>>>>>> current econobox, which does not present a flat floor with the back
>>>>>> seats down.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could always keep it for hauling, to spare the nice vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>
>>> M$ has proven more than once that it has no idea what it's doing in
>>> the automotive industry. The Ford Sync-1 was done by them and it's so
>>> bad there were several class-action suits against them. I have one in
>>> my truck and it's absolute junk. I don't use any of the "advanced"
>>> features (phone isn't even paired with it).
>>>
>>> OTOH, the Sync-3 in my wife's '19 Mustang is perfect, by comparison.
>>> It's easy to use and actually does what it's supposed to do without
>>> losing its mind every time you get in the car. Of course, I know who
>>> designed Sync-3. ;-)
>>>
>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>
>> My Grandmother has a Ford Focus (I think? Whatever their small car is
>> circa 2014 - purchased new), and it has that Microsoft entertainment
>> thing. Of course, she never uses it, and just drives the car. I assume
>> that's why it's still "working".
>
> Well, it's still "working" because she's never tried to use it. It's
> designed broken.

Yes, that's what I said, worded differently ;)

On 7/14/2021 12:20 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:34:08 -0400, Michael Trew<mt999999@ymail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>
>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>
>> I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that is
>> my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old stuff
>> without computers and touch screens!
>
> No, I've never had wiring fail in old cars or door posts break off,
> then the bandaid (weld) attempting to put the humpty car back
> together, also failed within days. Fit and finish of those cars was
> *perfect* and they never rusted out before they were paid for (when a
> 36mo loan was long). Yep, the good ol' days.

I think you're referring to 70's cars. I've never seen one of my 90's
cars rust out that quickly.

BTW, my '75 Dart is still going strong!