On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 3:50:56 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:40:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 5/15/2022 1:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:19:38 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > >> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >>> On 5/15/2022 10:37 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> > >>>> AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
> > >>>>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except
> > >>>>>> they
> > >>>>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three
> > >>>>>> bike rides
> > >>>>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right
> > >>>>>> side of the
> > >>>>>> road.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity
> > >>>> must be rather limited.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had
> > >>>>> some scary
> > >>>>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American
> > >>>> driver!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and
> > >>>> Hungarian" to become the EU's exclusive official languages,
> > >>>> to "further strengthen cohesion." Now, I'm more serious
> > >>>> than ever about it -- because I would not have to bear
> > >>>> hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> She's very good with manuals- my column or floor shift cars-
> > >>> as she grew up on tractors. (still calls the throttle pedal
> > >>> 'foot-feed').
> > >>>
> > >>> But typical traveler's signage confusion, complicated by
> > >>> language and added to ass-backwards intuition is daunting.
> > >>>
> > >>> I had the same sorts of troubles cycling in Japan. I read
> > >>> slowly and with difficulty and in traffic, when a
> > >>> split-second is critical, I intuitively react wrong.
> > >>>
> > >> I avoided cycling in Scotland and London for the brief time I was there for
> > >> the same reason. You can logically figure out what to do, but all your
> > >> instincts are completely wrong.
> > >
> > > Never depend on the English to EVER do anything obvious. Why would you drive on the left hand side of the road when the overwhelming majority of people are right handed and their instinct is always turn away from their right side?
> > >
> > That's learned behavior.
> >
> > IIRC the English adopted 'everyone stays on this side of the
> > public way' rules before others. Neither is 'best'.
> Andrew, there is a REASON that the entire world save for Britain drives on the right side of the road.

Tommy, since you are untraveled and not knowledgeable, I will point out to you that JAPAN, also drives on the left side of the road. Japan has a population of 125 million. United Kingdom has a population of 67 million. Japan was never colonized or invaded by Britain. Unlike India which was. India also drives on the left side of the road. India has a population of 1.4 billion.

Tommy, you really really really need to at least attempt to get your basic facts right. Basic facts. Like up down, left right, black white, hot cold.. Not the big facts. Just the basic facts.

> It has nothing to do with who did what first but human behavior. In any case of danger you discover yourself attempting to protect your favored side.. Since 88-90% of the world is right handed that means that they will turn right. This is not a learned behavior because how often do you get in wrecks?

On Sun, 15 May 2022 07:04:30 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 4:53:21 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 1:15:59 PM UTC-7, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 5:05:14 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> > > Like most things from history it is subject to interpretation. As an
>> > > example, the oldest known written copy of the Commandments, on a
>> > > tablet of stone, says "thou shall not commit murder" while many modern
>> > > Christian Bibles say "thou shall not kill". Perhaps subtle but a
>> > > difference never the less.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Cheers,
>> > >
>> > > John B.
>> > I beg to differ. (I'm splitting hairs here a bit; since you capitalized Commandments I assume you intend to refer to the classic Ten, rather than the 624 total. If not you can weasel out) The Ten Commandments say neither murder nor kill.
>> >
>> > We know there was something called the Ten. We get our Sunday School versions of the Ten from Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. However, if you actually look these up, you will notice something strange. First, nowhere do they claim to be the Ten. Second, there is no easy way to get Ten separate commandments out of either text. It just doesn't line up that way. Give them to someone not familiar, and usually they'll see 14 to 19. Try it yourself.
>> >
>> > However, there IS one place in the Old Testament that specifically lists the Ten Commandments and makes the claim. Unfortunately Exodus 34 doesn't contain the usual Ten, other than not making idols and honoring the Sabbath. This is sometimes called the Ritual Decalogue. When Ten Commandments is referred to in scripture, it is always the ritual Ten and not the modern Sunday School Ten.
>> Uh, I hope you know that not too long ago the recovered stone tablets of Moses were found and recent sold for $850,000. There were supposedly ten commandments on it. Rather weather worn but you cannot invent your own religion.
>
>Every religion was invented. Further, everyone invents their own version.

Yes, which is the problem in discussing religion. Everybody "knows"
that he/she/it is Right! and if you disagree you are Wrong!
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 16 May 2022 05:48:57 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:57:08 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>>"A Christian Apologetics Ministry Dedicated to Demonstrating the
>>Historical Reliability of the Bible through Archaeological and
>>Biblical Research." (2001)
>><https://biblearchaeology.org/research/exodus-from-egypt/2264-mount-sinai-is-not-jebel-allawz-in-saudi-arabia>

>Or to phrase it a bit differently, "Nobody knows" (:-)

Yep, and that will probably be the permanent situation. Think about
what it would take to "harmonize" all the various holy books,
writings, interpretations, exaggerations, archaeological finds, map
errors, politically inspired changes, etc. For example, the Exodus
story appears in the Torah, the Quran, various bibles, various bible
translations, clerical in interpretations, pontifical adjustments,
myths, and contemporary history books. At the other extreme, there
are those who proclaim that it never happened. I don't see any way
that anything better than a probabilistic consensus can be reached.
Worse, the various factions all have a vested interest in insuring
that their interpretations, chronologies and locations are the
accepted ones. Since nobody is going to risk having a new discovery
undermine the basis of their religion, the various factions are not
going to cooperate or change their beliefs. More likely, they would
prefer to destroy any newly discovered evidence or perhaps fight a
holy war over the details.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:12:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:48:48 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:44:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:30:00 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things.
>>>>
>>>> Yep. I noticed that. It takes effort to always be wrong. My
>>>> guess(tm) is that the problem is related to the number of postings. I
>>>> haven't counted lately, but Tom generates at least one comment to
>>>> every topic and constitutes about 1/3 of the traffic (my guess) in
>>>> RBT. I originally thought that he's trying to impress people with the
>>>> extent of his experience, knowledge, and wisdom. Today, I'm more
>>>> inclined to believe he's a Usenet graffiti artist, who has to put his
>>>> name or mark on everything. The kids and gangs do this with spray
>>>> paint. Tom does it with attention getting errors and amazing facts.
>>>> If he would reduce his prodigious output to something more manageable
>>>> and concentrate on getting things right, the accuracy might hopefully
>>>> improve.
>>> But simply being noticed is just SO satisfying to those of Tom's or
>>> the bloke in Ireland's ilk.
>>>
>>> "Can you imagine Mommy? Someone noticed me today!"
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> John B.
>>
>> I thought the other idiot was in Scotland. But you think its Ireland? A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the road.
>>
>
>+1
>Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some
>scary moments driving a rental car in Ireland.

(:-) I drove on the left side in several countries and never had any
problems... but when I returned to the U.S. and tried driving on the
right side I got all confused. The worst was heading into a "rotary"
circle....Which Way Do I Turn???
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:58:41 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:19:38 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> > On 5/15/2022 10:37 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>> >> AMuzi wrote:
>> >>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
>> >>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except
>> >>>> they
>> >>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three
>> >>>> bike rides
>> >>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right
>> >>>> side of the
>> >>>> road.
>> >>
>> >> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity
>> >> must be rather limited.
>> >>
>> >>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had
>> >>> some scary
>> >>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
>> >>
>> >> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American
>> >> driver!
>> >>
>> >> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and
>> >> Hungarian" to become the EU's exclusive official languages,
>> >> to "further strengthen cohesion." Now, I'm more serious
>> >> than ever about it -- because I would not have to bear
>> >> hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
>> >>
>> >
>> > She's very good with manuals- my column or floor shift cars-
>> > as she grew up on tractors. (still calls the throttle pedal
>> > 'foot-feed').
>> >
>> > But typical traveler's signage confusion, complicated by
>> > language and added to ass-backwards intuition is daunting.
>> >
>> > I had the same sorts of troubles cycling in Japan. I read
>> > slowly and with difficulty and in traffic, when a
>> > split-second is critical, I intuitively react wrong.
>> >
>> I avoided cycling in Scotland and London for the brief time I was there for
>> the same reason. You can logically figure out what to do, but all your
>> instincts are completely wrong.
>
>Never depend on the English to EVER do anything obvious. Why would you drive on the left hand side of the road when the overwhelming majority of people are right handed and their instinct is always turn away from their right side?

Probably because that is how you drive a team of oxen. You drive with
the team and wagon on the left side of the road, on your right side.
Even today the "Near Side" is the L.H. side of the horse or ox and the
"Far Side" is the R.H. side.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/15/2022 7:13 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:12:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:48:48 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:44:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:30:00 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep. I noticed that. It takes effort to always be wrong. My
>>>>> guess(tm) is that the problem is related to the number of postings. I
>>>>> haven't counted lately, but Tom generates at least one comment to
>>>>> every topic and constitutes about 1/3 of the traffic (my guess) in
>>>>> RBT. I originally thought that he's trying to impress people with the
>>>>> extent of his experience, knowledge, and wisdom. Today, I'm more
>>>>> inclined to believe he's a Usenet graffiti artist, who has to put his
>>>>> name or mark on everything. The kids and gangs do this with spray
>>>>> paint. Tom does it with attention getting errors and amazing facts.
>>>>> If he would reduce his prodigious output to something more manageable
>>>>> and concentrate on getting things right, the accuracy might hopefully
>>>>> improve.
>>>> But simply being noticed is just SO satisfying to those of Tom's or
>>>> the bloke in Ireland's ilk.
>>>>
>>>> "Can you imagine Mommy? Someone noticed me today!"
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> John B.
>>>
>>> I thought the other idiot was in Scotland. But you think its Ireland? A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the road.
>>>
>>
>> +1
>> Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some
>> scary moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
>
>
> (:-) I drove on the left side in several countries and never had any
> problems... but when I returned to the U.S. and tried driving on the
> right side I got all confused. The worst was heading into a "rotary"
> circle....Which Way Do I Turn???
>

My answer is either left or right as soon as I see one in
the distance. I hate those antipersonnel devices.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 15 May 2022 16:31:58 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/15/2022 3:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:32:12 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 5/15/2022 12:31 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:01:32 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 5/15/2022 10:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:37:15 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
>>>>>>>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they
>>>>>>>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides
>>>>>>>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the
>>>>>>>>> road.
>>>>>>> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity must be
>>>>>>> rather limited.
>>>>>>>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some scary
>>>>>>>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
>>>>>>> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American driver!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and Hungarian" to
>>>>>>> become the EU's exclusive official languages, to "further strengthen
>>>>>>> cohesion." Now, I'm more serious than ever about it -- because I would
>>>>>>> not have to bear hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seriously, I am quite surprised that Germany would remain in an EU that is anything other than military cooperation should that ever become necessary. I think that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine has shown that will probably never become even a viable option for the Russians. Against even the Germans, Russia would not become helpless unless it was Germany invading Russia where every Russian then becomes a defender. Clearly offense is much harder than defense so Germany who have learned a very hard lesson could stop anything short of a nuclear exchange with ease.
>>>>>>
>>>>> They took a miserable 2d Place to the Red Army last time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Too many factors to call it either way.
>>>>
>>>> Andrew, at that time the Germans were invaders and not defenders. In cases like that history tells us that the invading force must have an overwhelming majority and the Ukraine has shown us that they do not. Let's remember that the Ukraine has inflicted heavy loses on the Russians despite being led by a somewhat corrupt TV actor. He and his generals have caused complete retreat of the Russians from their capital city and presently the Russians are suffering heavy loses trying to find a pathway to the Sea of Azov. Plus, naval forces of Russia are having a lot of trouble as NATO (meaning American) naval forces are flooding that area and restricting access.
>>>>
>>>> With that much trouble with a small economically depressed Ukraine, who could Russia possibly do with a military might of Germany, who, if anything, is more powerful than in WW II and with much better generals. The Allies at the time of invasion had 10 times as many troops to field as the Germans. And because they were invaders their supply lines were stretched thin and easily broken.
>>>>
>>> To have a better grasp, read current military analysis,
>>> besides theory, for a few years. Or more.
>>>
>>> Retired US military are quite knowledgeable and talented in
>>> after action analysis all over the world and their insights
>>> are mostly free online. Enhance that with the occasional
>>> hardcover and you'll get a better feel for the assets,
>>> maintenance, development programs, training, logistics,
>>> retention rates and morale of the players in any given theater.
>>>
>>> Even so, uncertainties, timing, fortune all play an outsize
>>> role so humility in analysis helps as well.
>>
>> Unless these military officers were in the office of strategic planning their analysis are no better than that of anyone else. People's opinions are only as good as their data and the real data is very tightly controlled. My very good friend worked 30 years in the pentagon and had access to a lot of classified information but there isn't a chance that I would take the information from a Marine as worth any more than from an ambassador.
>>
>
>If you recall in early March here I wrote that the Russian
>attack would encounter great difficulties as the number of
>attacking points was too large for the available resources.
> My prime tutors in these matters are a 1990s Army tank
>captain and a retired Seal. Both noted the Russia's severe
>lack of competent career line officers and noncoms, which
>can be disastrous in an army of 2-year conscripts.

There are many intangibles.

The Russian troops may to be poorly trained and led.
The Russians have something like 10 times as many aircraft as the
Ukrainians but don't seem to be using them.
Russia has a great many missals, from 2012 and as of December 2020,
the number of long-range land-, sea-, and air-launched cruise missiles
increased by 37 times. The number of their cruise missile carriers was
also increased by 13 times, but they don't seem to be using them.
The Russians have a number of TU-160 bombers with a total munitions
load of 88,000 lbs, but they don't seem to be using them.
What is Russia's plans for the East Ukraine, if conquered.

And, and, and.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 15 May 2022 13:50:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:40:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/15/2022 1:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:19:38 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> >> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >>> On 5/15/2022 10:37 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>> >>>> AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
>> >>>>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except
>> >>>>>> they
>> >>>>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three
>> >>>>>> bike rides
>> >>>>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right
>> >>>>>> side of the
>> >>>>>> road.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity
>> >>>> must be rather limited.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had
>> >>>>> some scary
>> >>>>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American
>> >>>> driver!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and
>> >>>> Hungarian" to become the EU's exclusive official languages,
>> >>>> to "further strengthen cohesion." Now, I'm more serious
>> >>>> than ever about it -- because I would not have to bear
>> >>>> hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> She's very good with manuals- my column or floor shift cars-
>> >>> as she grew up on tractors. (still calls the throttle pedal
>> >>> 'foot-feed').
>> >>>
>> >>> But typical traveler's signage confusion, complicated by
>> >>> language and added to ass-backwards intuition is daunting.
>> >>>
>> >>> I had the same sorts of troubles cycling in Japan. I read
>> >>> slowly and with difficulty and in traffic, when a
>> >>> split-second is critical, I intuitively react wrong.
>> >>>
>> >> I avoided cycling in Scotland and London for the brief time I was there for
>> >> the same reason. You can logically figure out what to do, but all your
>> >> instincts are completely wrong.
>> >
>> > Never depend on the English to EVER do anything obvious. Why would you drive on the left hand side of the road when the overwhelming majority of people are right handed and their instinct is always turn away from their right side?
>> >
>> That's learned behavior.
>>
>> IIRC the English adopted 'everyone stays on this side of the
>> public way' rules before others. Neither is 'best'.
>
>Andrew, there is a REASON that the entire world save for Britain drives on the right side of the road. It has nothing to do with who did what first but human behavior. In any case of danger you discover yourself attempting to protect your favored side. Since 88-90% of the world is right handed that means that they will turn right. This is not a learned behavior because how often do you get in wrecks?

"that the entire world save for Britain drives on the right side of
the road"?????

And Tommy Strikes(out) yet again!

Reality has it that there are some
75 places drive on the Left.
https://www.aceable.com/blog/countries-that-drive-on-the-left-side-of-the-road/
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 15 May 2022 13:38:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:37:51 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/15/2022 1:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> > On Sun, 15 May 2022 12:00:03 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 14 May 2022 20:59:42 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:24:30 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Well... people pay some rather astonishing prices for some rather
>> >>>> (would one say) strange things sold for large sums of money :-)
>> >>>> https://businesstech.co.za/news/trending/103797/weirdest-things-sold-at-auction-for-millions/
>> >>>
>> >>> <https://www.foxnews.com/science/got-250000-earliest-known-10-commandments-inscription-up-for-auction>
>> >>> The bidding started at $250,000 and it eventually sold for $850,000.
>> >>> The video adds some interesting details.
>> >>>
>> >>> "How to Make a Replica of the Ten Commandements on Fake Stone Tablets"
>> >>> <https://www.ehow.com/how_5695382_make-commandements-fake-stone-tablets.html>
>> >>>
>> >>> "The Mysterious Rocks from Mount Sinai"
>> >>> <https://dafyomireview.com/article.php?docid=528>
>> >
>> >> Is the location of the Mt. Sinia, where the Ten Commandments were
>> >> given to Moses, known?
>> >
>> > Nope. Nobody is certain that the biblical Mt Sinai is the same as the
>> > modern Mt Sinai. There are numerous stories, books, and videos on the
>> > topic of finding Mt Sinai. For example:
>> > <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mt+sinai+location>
>> > <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=exodus+story>
>> > The problem is that the description in Exodus does not match with the
>> > modern location. There are also inconsistencies in the Exodus route,
>> > location of various biblical cities, biblical timelines, etc. Almost
>> > everything is in doubt with little help from archaeologists and
>> > governments. Just about everyone has a personal favorite version of
>> > the Exodus, including me. The most common alternative location is
>> > Jebel al-Lawz, which is in the middle of a military zone in Saudi
>> > Arabia. It's a better match the modern Mt Sinai, but not perfect. Of
>> > course, the Saudi's are not cooperating.
>> >
>> > A problem with building anything in Israel is that it doesn't matter
>> > where you dig, you're going to find artifacts:
>> > "Israel to move prison sitting atop earliest mosaic dedicated to
>> > Jesus"
>> > <https://www.jpost.com/christianworld/article-702712>
>> > "This structure is interpreted as the oldest Christian prayer house in
>> > the world".
>> >
>> Not only Israel:
>>
>> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/iraq-ap-baghdad-british-b2079474.html
>
>I hope that by this time you don't accept anything from the Slime Stream Media as being true or even an attempt at being true, Nothing goes out without being gone through by 2 editors who put out opinion and not fact. If you actually sat in the courtroom and heard it for yourself what do you want to bet that you couldn't recognize that case in these stories?

"who put out opinion and not fact"???

Oh! I See. You are referring to Tom Kunich?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/15/2022 4:02 PM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> When were you in Thailand?

Early 1990's.

On 5/15/2022 8:10 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 07:04:30 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Every religion was invented. Further, everyone invents their own version.
>
> Yes, which is the problem in discussing religion. Everybody "knows"
> that he/she/it is Right! and if you disagree you are Wrong!

That "everybody" should not be so absolute. One can have a very
intelligent and enlightening conversation with an expert on comparative
religion.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 15 May 2022 17:10:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 05:48:57 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:57:08 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>wrote:
>>>"A Christian Apologetics Ministry Dedicated to Demonstrating the
>>>Historical Reliability of the Bible through Archaeological and
>>>Biblical Research." (2001)
>>><https://biblearchaeology.org/research/exodus-from-egypt/2264-mount-sinai-is-not-jebel-allawz-in-saudi-arabia>
>
>>Or to phrase it a bit differently, "Nobody knows" (:-)
>
>Yep, and that will probably be the permanent situation. Think about
>what it would take to "harmonize" all the various holy books,
>writings, interpretations, exaggerations, archaeological finds, map
>errors, politically inspired changes, etc. For example, the Exodus
>story appears in the Torah, the Quran, various bibles, various bible
>translations, clerical in interpretations, pontifical adjustments,
>myths, and contemporary history books. At the other extreme, there
>are those who proclaim that it never happened. I don't see any way
>that anything better than a probabilistic consensus can be reached.
>Worse, the various factions all have a vested interest in insuring
>that their interpretations, chronologies and locations are the
>accepted ones. Since nobody is going to risk having a new discovery
>undermine the basis of their religion, the various factions are not
>going to cooperate or change their beliefs. More likely, they would
>prefer to destroy any newly discovered evidence or perhaps fight a
>holy war over the details.

And even more illogical the three Abrahamic religions merrily
slaughter each other, "in the name of God".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 15 May 2022 19:01:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/15/2022 6:17 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:01:24 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/15/2022 10:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:37:15 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
>>>>>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they
>>>>>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides
>>>>>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the
>>>>>>> road.
>>>>> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity must be
>>>>> rather limited.
>>>>>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some scary
>>>>>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
>>>>> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American driver!
>>>>>
>>>>> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and Hungarian" to
>>>>> become the EU's exclusive official languages, to "further strengthen
>>>>> cohesion." Now, I'm more serious than ever about it -- because I would
>>>>> not have to bear hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
>>>>
>>>> Seriously, I am quite surprised that Germany would remain in an EU that is anything other than military cooperation should that ever become necessary. I think that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine has shown that will probably never become even a viable option for the Russians. Against even the Germans, Russia would not become helpless unless it was Germany invading Russia where every Russian then becomes a defender. Clearly offense is much harder than defense so Germany who have learned a very hard lesson could stop anything short of a nuclear exchange with ease.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They took a miserable 2d Place to the Red Army last time.
>>>
>>> Too many factors to call it either way.
>>
>> Has anyone conquered Russia? Well, in the 600 years or so?
>>
>
>Besides the Bolsheviks? Not yet.

I was going to ask, "But is a civil war being conquered" but then I
remember when I live in Georgia and Alabama
(Save your Confederate money. the South will rise again)
(:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 15 May 2022 22:49:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 5/15/2022 8:10 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 07:04:30 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Every religion was invented. Further, everyone invents their own version.
>>
>> Yes, which is the problem in discussing religion. Everybody "knows"
>> that he/she/it is Right! and if you disagree you are Wrong!
>
>That "everybody" should not be so absolute. One can have a very
>intelligent and enlightening conversation with an expert on comparative
>religion.

Of course you can have a discussion but do you change his.her/it's
beliefs? I've had discussion about the Shintoism ( Japanese
traditional religion), Buddhism, Muslim and even Christianity, in
various forms. I can't say that I ever changed anyone's beliefs, nor
had mine changed.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:54:35 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 19:01:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 5/15/2022 6:17 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:01:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 5/15/2022 10:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:37:15 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> >>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
> >>>>>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they
> >>>>>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides
> >>>>>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the
> >>>>>>> road.
> >>>>> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity must be
> >>>>> rather limited.
> >>>>>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some scary
> >>>>>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
> >>>>> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American driver!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and Hungarian" to
> >>>>> become the EU's exclusive official languages, to "further strengthen
> >>>>> cohesion." Now, I'm more serious than ever about it -- because I would
> >>>>> not have to bear hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
> >>>>
> >>>> Seriously, I am quite surprised that Germany would remain in an EU that is anything other than military cooperation should that ever become necessary. I think that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine has shown that will probably never become even a viable option for the Russians. Against even the Germans, Russia would not become helpless unless it was Germany invading Russia where every Russian then becomes a defender. Clearly offense is much harder than defense so Germany who have learned a very hard lesson could stop anything short of a nuclear exchange with ease.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> They took a miserable 2d Place to the Red Army last time.
> >>>
> >>> Too many factors to call it either way.
> >>
> >> Has anyone conquered Russia? Well, in the 600 years or so?
> >>
> >
> >Besides the Bolsheviks? Not yet.
> I was going to ask, "But is a civil war being conquered" but then I
> remember when I live in Georgia and Alabama
> (Save your Confederate money. the South will rise again)
> (:-)
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

Concerning your comment above. I recall hearing a story about George Patton. And him saying the USA had never been defeated in a war. The person writing the story brought up the fact Patton's grandfather served in the Confederacy during the Civil War. And the south did lose the Civil War. So either Patton did not know his own family history. Not credible. Since his father and grandfather and he himself all went to Virginia Military Institute. Or Patton used very selective memory, like our Tommy boy, to wipe away the fact his own grandpa fought on the losing side of the Civil War. Now I realize George Patton was born twenty years after the Civil War ended, 1885, so he himself had no direct connection to the Civil War. So its possible in his mind he did not think of the Civil War as a real war since no foreign power was involved. So his grandpa and his dad being on the Confederate side was not really a loss. And the USA, his country, won.

On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:43:43 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:54:35 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 19:01:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 5/15/2022 6:17 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:01:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 5/15/2022 10:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:37:15 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>> >>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
>> >>>>>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they
>> >>>>>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides
>> >>>>>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the
>> >>>>>>> road.
>> >>>>> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity must be
>> >>>>> rather limited.
>> >>>>>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some scary
>> >>>>>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
>> >>>>> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American driver!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and Hungarian" to
>> >>>>> become the EU's exclusive official languages, to "further strengthen
>> >>>>> cohesion." Now, I'm more serious than ever about it -- because I would
>> >>>>> not have to bear hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Seriously, I am quite surprised that Germany would remain in an EU that is anything other than military cooperation should that ever become necessary. I think that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine has shown that will probably never become even a viable option for the Russians. Against even the Germans, Russia would not become helpless unless it was Germany invading Russia where every Russian then becomes a defender. Clearly offense is much harder than defense so Germany who have learned a very hard lesson could stop anything short of a nuclear exchange with ease.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> They took a miserable 2d Place to the Red Army last time.
>> >>>
>> >>> Too many factors to call it either way.
>> >>
>> >> Has anyone conquered Russia? Well, in the 600 years or so?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Besides the Bolsheviks? Not yet.
>> I was going to ask, "But is a civil war being conquered" but then I
>> remember when I live in Georgia and Alabama
>> (Save your Confederate money. the South will rise again)
>> (:-)
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>Concerning your comment above. I recall hearing a story about George Patton. And him saying the USA had never been defeated in a war. The person writing the story brought up the fact Patton's grandfather served in the Confederacy during the Civil War. And the south did lose the Civil War. So either Patton did not know his own family history. Not credible. Since his father and grandfather and he himself all went to Virginia Military Institute. Or Patton used very selective memory, like our Tommy boy, to wipe away the fact his own grandpa fought on the losing side of the Civil War. Now I realize George Patton was born twenty years after the Civil War ended, 1885, so he himself had no direct connection to the Civil War. So its possible in his mind he did not think of the Civil War as a real war since no foreign power was involved. So his grandpa and his dad being on the Confederate side was not really a loss. And the USA, his country, won.

Well, it is likely a matter of semantics, but No. The Unites States of
America wasn't conquered. A country named the "Confederate States of
America" was defeated. So Patton was correct.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:50:23 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>And even more illogical the three Abrahamic religions merrily
>slaughter each other, "in the name of God".

Yes, but each religion pronounces and spells their names differently.
If only they would agree on a common name, maybe there would be fewer
wars over such trivial issues.

Well, maybe 3 names isn't so bad:

"Over 100 Biblical Names Of God"
<https://urbanareas.net/info/100-biblical-names-god/>

"The Nine Billion Names of God"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Billion_Names_of_God>

Hmmmm, the moon seems to be getting dimmer or turning off.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 15 May 2022 22:20:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 09:50:23 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>And even more illogical the three Abrahamic religions merrily
>>slaughter each other, "in the name of God".
>
>Yes, but each religion pronounces and spells their names differently.
>If only they would agree on a common name, maybe there would be fewer
>wars over such trivial issues.
>
>Well, maybe 3 names isn't so bad:
>
>"Over 100 Biblical Names Of God"
><https://urbanareas.net/info/100-biblical-names-god/>
>
>"The Nine Billion Names of God"
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Billion_Names_of_God>
>
>Hmmmm, the moon seems to be getting dimmer or turning off.

Perhaps, but I doubt it. Take one "branch". The Christians, for
example.
During The Thirty Years' War, basically a war between "Catholic" and
"Protestant" mobs. It is estimated that some 4.5 to 8 million died
and some regions, largely in Germany, lost more then 50% of the
inhabitants.
The northern colonies in "America" were largely settled by
"Christians" who disagreed with the "Christians" in England.

But, not to be left out, the Muslims have had their differences,
although they were, originally, largely a matter of politics.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:19:30 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:43:43 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:54:35 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 19:01:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 5/15/2022 6:17 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:01:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> On 5/15/2022 10:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:37:15 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> >> >>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >> >>>>>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
> >> >>>>>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they
> >> >>>>>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides
> >> >>>>>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the
> >> >>>>>>> road.
> >> >>>>> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity must be
> >> >>>>> rather limited.
> >> >>>>>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some scary
> >> >>>>>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
> >> >>>>> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American driver!
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and Hungarian" to
> >> >>>>> become the EU's exclusive official languages, to "further strengthen
> >> >>>>> cohesion." Now, I'm more serious than ever about it -- because I would
> >> >>>>> not have to bear hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Seriously, I am quite surprised that Germany would remain in an EU that is anything other than military cooperation should that ever become necessary. I think that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine has shown that will probably never become even a viable option for the Russians. Against even the Germans, Russia would not become helpless unless it was Germany invading Russia where every Russian then becomes a defender. Clearly offense is much harder than defense so Germany who have learned a very hard lesson could stop anything short of a nuclear exchange with ease.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> They took a miserable 2d Place to the Red Army last time.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Too many factors to call it either way.
> >> >>
> >> >> Has anyone conquered Russia? Well, in the 600 years or so?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Besides the Bolsheviks? Not yet.
> >> I was going to ask, "But is a civil war being conquered" but then I
> >> remember when I live in Georgia and Alabama
> >> (Save your Confederate money. the South will rise again)
> >> (:-)
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> >Concerning your comment above. I recall hearing a story about George Patton. And him saying the USA had never been defeated in a war. The person writing the story brought up the fact Patton's grandfather served in the Confederacy during the Civil War. And the south did lose the Civil War. So either Patton did not know his own family history. Not credible. Since his father and grandfather and he himself all went to Virginia Military Institute. Or Patton used very selective memory, like our Tommy boy, to wipe away the fact his own grandpa fought on the losing side of the Civil War. Now I realize George Patton was born twenty years after the Civil War ended, 1885, so he himself had no direct connection to the Civil War. So its possible in his mind he did not think of the Civil War as a real war since no foreign power was involved. So his grandpa and his dad being on the Confederate side was not really a loss. And the USA, his country, won.
> Well, it is likely a matter of semantics, but No. The Unites States of
> America wasn't conquered. A country named the "Confederate States of
> America" was defeated. So Patton was correct.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

Here is the Patton quote. Made June 5, 1944 to troops in England. Day before D-day.
https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0666567/quotes
"I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American."

Yes semantics. His grandpa died in battle as a Colonel fighting for the Confederacy.

On 5/15/2022 10:43 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:54:35 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 19:01:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/15/2022 6:17 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:01:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/15/2022 10:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:37:15 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
>>>>>>>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they
>>>>>>>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides
>>>>>>>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the
>>>>>>>>> road.
>>>>>>> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity must be
>>>>>>> rather limited.
>>>>>>>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some scary
>>>>>>>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
>>>>>>> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American driver!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and Hungarian" to
>>>>>>> become the EU's exclusive official languages, to "further strengthen
>>>>>>> cohesion." Now, I'm more serious than ever about it -- because I would
>>>>>>> not have to bear hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seriously, I am quite surprised that Germany would remain in an EU that is anything other than military cooperation should that ever become necessary. I think that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine has shown that will probably never become even a viable option for the Russians. Against even the Germans, Russia would not become helpless unless it was Germany invading Russia where every Russian then becomes a defender. Clearly offense is much harder than defense so Germany who have learned a very hard lesson could stop anything short of a nuclear exchange with ease.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They took a miserable 2d Place to the Red Army last time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Too many factors to call it either way.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone conquered Russia? Well, in the 600 years or so?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Besides the Bolsheviks? Not yet.
>> I was going to ask, "But is a civil war being conquered" but then I
>> remember when I live in Georgia and Alabama
>> (Save your Confederate money. the South will rise again)
>> (:-)
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
> Concerning your comment above. I recall hearing a story about George Patton. And him saying the USA had never been defeated in a war. The person writing the story brought up the fact Patton's grandfather served in the Confederacy during the Civil War. And the south did lose the Civil War. So either Patton did not know his own family history. Not credible. Since his father and grandfather and he himself all went to Virginia Military Institute. Or Patton used very selective memory, like our Tommy boy, to wipe away the fact his own grandpa fought on the losing side of the Civil War. Now I realize George Patton was born twenty years after the Civil War ended, 1885, so he himself had no direct connection to the Civil War. So its possible in his mind he did not think of the Civil War as a real war since no foreign power was involved. So his grandpa and his dad being on the Confederate side was not really a loss. And the USA, his country, won.
>

??
The defeat of CSA relates in what way to 'USA had never been
defeated in a war' ?

You might have just as well asked the same question
regarding Shay's Rebellion or Philadelphia MOVE or Weather
Underground...

A better case might have been made about burning the White
House and sacking DC in 1814 although 'defeat' is a stronger
word than 'chastisement'.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 7:23:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/15/2022 10:43 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:54:35 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 19:01:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 5/15/2022 6:17 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:01:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 5/15/2022 10:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:37:15 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> >>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
> >>>>>>>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they
> >>>>>>>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides
> >>>>>>>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the
> >>>>>>>>> road.
> >>>>>>> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity must be
> >>>>>>> rather limited.
> >>>>>>>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some scary
> >>>>>>>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
> >>>>>>> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American driver!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and Hungarian" to
> >>>>>>> become the EU's exclusive official languages, to "further strengthen
> >>>>>>> cohesion." Now, I'm more serious than ever about it -- because I would
> >>>>>>> not have to bear hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Seriously, I am quite surprised that Germany would remain in an EU that is anything other than military cooperation should that ever become necessary. I think that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine has shown that will probably never become even a viable option for the Russians. Against even the Germans, Russia would not become helpless unless it was Germany invading Russia where every Russian then becomes a defender. Clearly offense is much harder than defense so Germany who have learned a very hard lesson could stop anything short of a nuclear exchange with ease.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They took a miserable 2d Place to the Red Army last time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Too many factors to call it either way.
> >>>>
> >>>> Has anyone conquered Russia? Well, in the 600 years or so?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Besides the Bolsheviks? Not yet.
> >> I was going to ask, "But is a civil war being conquered" but then I
> >> remember when I live in Georgia and Alabama
> >> (Save your Confederate money. the South will rise again)
> >> (:-)
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> > Concerning your comment above. I recall hearing a story about George Patton. And him saying the USA had never been defeated in a war. The person writing the story brought up the fact Patton's grandfather served in the Confederacy during the Civil War. And the south did lose the Civil War. So either Patton did not know his own family history. Not credible. Since his father and grandfather and he himself all went to Virginia Military Institute. Or Patton used very selective memory, like our Tommy boy, to wipe away the fact his own grandpa fought on the losing side of the Civil War. Now I realize George Patton was born twenty years after the Civil War ended, 1885, so he himself had no direct connection to the Civil War. So its possible in his mind he did not think of the Civil War as a real war since no foreign power was involved. So his grandpa and his dad being on the Confederate side was not really a loss. And the USA, his country, won.
> >
> ??
> The defeat of CSA relates in what way to 'USA had never been
> defeated in a war' ?
>
> You might have just as well asked the same question
> regarding Shay's Rebellion or Philadelphia MOVE or Weather
> Underground...
>
> A better case might have been made about burning the White
> House and sacking DC in 1814 although 'defeat' is a stronger
> word than 'chastisement'.

In order to be defeated in a war first you have to be in a declared war. After WW II what wars were declared? Certainly none of the middle eastern wars. Korea WAS NOT a declared war despite a favorable outcome. The last time that Congress declare war was in 1942. But I'm sure that the Google Genius John will discover differently.

On 5/15/2022 11:15 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 22:49:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 5/15/2022 8:10 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 07:04:30 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>> <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Every religion was invented. Further, everyone invents their own version.
>>>
>>> Yes, which is the problem in discussing religion. Everybody "knows"
>>> that he/she/it is Right! and if you disagree you are Wrong!
>>
>> That "everybody" should not be so absolute. One can have a very
>> intelligent and enlightening conversation with an expert on comparative
>> religion.
>
> Of course you can have a discussion but do you change his.her/it's
> beliefs? I've had discussion about the Shintoism ( Japanese
> traditional religion), Buddhism, Muslim and even Christianity, in
> various forms. I can't say that I ever changed anyone's beliefs, nor
> had mine changed.

In my discussions, I wasn't trying to change his or anyone else's
beliefs, and neither was he. But he was remarkably tolerant of others'
beliefs, pretty much the polar opposite of "I'm right and anyone else is
wrong."

My point here is that at least some people can discuss religion
intelligently. They can go far, far beyond simple proselytizing.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 5/16/2022 1:20 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>
> Hmmmm, the moon seems to be getting dimmer or turning off.

Yes, that was quite nice. Our predicted cloudiness held off and the view
from our backyard was excellent.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:10:39 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 07:04:30 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 4:53:21 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 1:15:59 PM UTC-7, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 5:05:14 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >> > > Like most things from history it is subject to interpretation. As an
> >> > > example, the oldest known written copy of the Commandments, on a
> >> > > tablet of stone, says "thou shall not commit murder" while many modern
> >> > > Christian Bibles say "thou shall not kill". Perhaps subtle but a
> >> > > difference never the less.
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Cheers,
> >> > >
> >> > > John B.
> >> > I beg to differ. (I'm splitting hairs here a bit; since you capitalized Commandments I assume you intend to refer to the classic Ten, rather than the 624 total. If not you can weasel out) The Ten Commandments say neither murder nor kill.
> >> >
> >> > We know there was something called the Ten. We get our Sunday School versions of the Ten from Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. However, if you actually look these up, you will notice something strange. First, nowhere do they claim to be the Ten. Second, there is no easy way to get Ten separate commandments out of either text. It just doesn't line up that way. Give them to someone not familiar, and usually they'll see 14 to 19. Try it yourself.
> >> >
> >> > However, there IS one place in the Old Testament that specifically lists the Ten Commandments and makes the claim. Unfortunately Exodus 34 doesn't contain the usual Ten, other than not making idols and honoring the Sabbath. This is sometimes called the Ritual Decalogue. When Ten Commandments is referred to in scripture, it is always the ritual Ten and not the modern Sunday School Ten.
> >> Uh, I hope you know that not too long ago the recovered stone tablets of Moses were found and recent sold for $850,000. There were supposedly ten commandments on it. Rather weather worn but you cannot invent your own religion.
> >
> >Every religion was invented. Further, everyone invents their own version..
> Yes, which is the problem in discussing religion. Everybody "knows"
> that he/she/it is Right! and if you disagree you are Wrong!
> --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNX_XiuA78

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 10:49:15 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 5/15/2022 8:10 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Sun, 15 May 2022 07:04:30 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> > <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Every religion was invented. Further, everyone invents their own version.
> >
> > Yes, which is the problem in discussing religion. Everybody "knows"
> > that he/she/it is Right! and if you disagree you are Wrong!
> That "everybody" should not be so absolute. One can have a very
> intelligent and enlightening conversation with an expert on comparative
> religion.
>

You don't need to be an expert, just don't an arrogant asshole about it (aka tom/andre).