On Fri, 13 May 2022 22:20:31 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 12 May 2022 22:57:59 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
><ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 6:18:36 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>> But, one of the basic tenets of the Abrahamic Religions is
>>> "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" (Exodus
>>> 20:16) is one of the Ten Commandments,[1][2] widely understood as
>>> moral imperatives by Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant scholars.
>>>
>>> Given that you break this commandment multiple times daily will you be
>>> committing suicide soon?
>>> John B.
>
>>What exactly does bearing false witness against your neighbor mean?
>>You can't lie about your neighbor? Immediate next door neighbor,
>>but not the one two houses down.
>
>Originally, that's probably what it meant. There was one's tribe, and
>there was everyone else. What one did to or for the tribe, might be
>quite different from what they did to or for someone else. This is
>somewhat illustrated by the Arab view of hospitality. A traveler
>coming across the desert is afforded the best hospitality which
>incidentally might include sexual favors from the women. However,
>when the traveler leaves the hosts tent, walks across the desert, and
>again runs into the former host, the traveler runs into a fair chance
>of getting robbed. Why? Because the law only extends to the
>immediate vicinity and situation. This makes no sense to those used
>to western interpretations, but makes quite a bit of sense in terms of
>nomadic traders, who consider their reputation as a perfect host for
>visitors important, because the visitor will spread the word of their
>generosity.
>
>[Q] What's the difference between a bribe and a commission?
>[A] A bribe is paid in advance. A commission afterwards.
>This is a key part of doing business in the middle east. Everything
>requires what we call a bribe. What's happening is that these traders
>were once nomadic, and could and would disappear on very short notice.
>A business transaction where payment to the middleman was made after
>the transaction was completed was useless. Both parties would
>disappear and the middleman would never be paid. Instead, custom
>demands that the middleman receive his bribe in advance to insure
>payment.

I have no knowledge of the Middle East but here in (what would you
call it? The Eastern East :-) what the Western world calls bribery is
commonly vied as something a bit different. Here, if come one does
something for they you owe them and should repay them in some manner.

Now then if you are caught by a policeman speeding and he doesn't give
you a ticket, that would cause you to take a day off work and drive,
perhaps 200 km in order to pay the fine, then he has done you a favor
and thus you owe him a favor in return... But how to return this
favor? After all you live in Bangkok and the Cop is stationed in
Korat, some two hundred kilometers away. So you hit him with a couple
of hundred Baht and Bingo! your obligation is neutralized.

And is it so strange an occurrence? You give your good buddy a job as
he needs the work. You loan your brother-in-law a few dollars. You
give the girl in the restaurant a tip for good service?

How large a leap is it to "award this contract to us and it's $250,000
for you"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 4:05:14 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 22:57:59 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 6:18:36 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 12 May 2022 10:16:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 9:58:47 AM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> >> >> "But today, I read in "Freakonomics" that the "nice girls" are putting the "professionals" out of business (:-)"
> >> >>
> >> >> "Nope. It's just a larger more diversified and stratified market! What a great time to be alive!"
> >> >> But Andrew, when I was young we called loose women, who would fuck on the first date, exactly what they were, and for good reason. Not at all these days, though. But just because women all want to fuck on the first date these days, and are using abortion as their birth control method, hasn't changed anything: these dirty women, who have probably fucked 100 men or more during the last year, insist that you lick their pussy before they insist on fucking, if you're stupid enough to do what they say just because you want to dip your wick. If you go for that shit, and think it represents "just a larger and more diversified and stratified market", you are displaying very poor judgment because you are going to contract a really terrible case of oral STD.
> >> >
> >> >Bill, Andrew was using sarcasm and is pretty much in alignment with you. You are entirely correct about the sexual morals of women these days and these women in fact are committing suicide in ever increasing numbers as they discover an entire world of unhappiness that they thought that they were avoiding with rank male morals. One sin leads to another.
> >> But, one of the basic tenets of the Abrahamic Religions is
> >> "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" (Exodus
> >> 20:16) is one of the Ten Commandments,[1][2] widely understood as
> >> moral imperatives by Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant scholars.
> >>
> >> Given that you break this commandment multiple times daily will you be
> >> committing suicide soon?
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> >What exactly does bearing false witness against your neighbor mean? You can't lie about your neighbor? Immediate next door neighbor, but not the one two houses down. So for Tommy, since none of us are his immediate neighbor, Thank all the Gods!!!!! He thinks he can in good conscience lie to all of us. And be sin free, if that matters to him. But Jeff lives in California like Tommy. So maybe if you expand that neighbor thing a bit, Jeff might be Tommy's neighbor. And when Tommy commits lies against Jeff, he is breaking the vows or laws or clauses. Tommy is a sinner when he lies to Jeff.
> Like most things from history it is subject to interpretation. As an
> example, the oldest known written copy of the Commandments, on a
> tablet of stone,

There is an official ancient, antique, stone tablet of the Ten Commandments? Just like the ones Charlton Hesston broke in the Ten Commandments movie. Maybe some enterprising person later on had one made by the local stone mason so he could sell tickets to see the Ten Commandments. Probably profitable.

says "thou shall not commit murder" while many modern
> Christian Bibles say "thou shall not kill". Perhaps subtle but a
> difference never the less.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 8:33:59 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 5/13/2022 4:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > Uh, I hope you know that not too long ago the recovered stone tablets of Moses were found and recent sold for $850,000.
> <sigh> No, Tom, those were not the ones Moses brought down the mountain.
> Nobody has ever claimed they were.
>
> Your wild claims continue to amaze. How can one man be so ignorant?
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things. Moses Ten Commandments tablets? The little mouses on the wheels inside Tommy's brain must be spinning at greater than the speed of sound. Or wind turbines.

On 5/14/2022 12:30 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 8:33:59 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 5/13/2022 4:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Uh, I hope you know that not too long ago the recovered stone tablets of Moses were found and recent sold for $850,000.
>> <sigh> No, Tom, those were not the ones Moses brought down the mountain.
>> Nobody has ever claimed they were.
>>
>> Your wild claims continue to amaze. How can one man be so ignorant?
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things. Moses Ten Commandments tablets? The little mouses on the wheels inside Tommy's brain must be spinning at greater than the speed of sound. Or wind turbines.

Not sure if he really believes anything that he says. I suppose it's not
impossible, but the likelihood of one person being so clueless on such a
wide variety of topics, is unlikely.

“There is nothing more annoying than somebody who is really thick but
who believes with absolute conviction that he is more intelligent than
you. In other words, they tend to be very self-contained, introspective
and deep down they’re probably striving for affection. Yet they have no
way of going about attaining this, so they tend to rub people up the
wrong way.” ― Karl Wiggins, Wrong Planet - Searching for your Tribe

On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:30:00 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things.

Yep. I noticed that. It takes effort to always be wrong. My
guess(tm) is that the problem is related to the number of postings. I
haven't counted lately, but Tom generates at least one comment to
every topic and constitutes about 1/3 of the traffic (my guess) in
RBT. I originally thought that he's trying to impress people with the
extent of his experience, knowledge, and wisdom. Today, I'm more
inclined to believe he's a Usenet graffiti artist, who has to put his
name or mark on everything. The kids and gangs do this with spray
paint. Tom does it with attention getting errors and amazing facts.
If he would reduce his prodigious output to something more manageable
and concentrate on getting things right, the accuracy might hopefully
improve.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:22:44 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>There is an official ancient, antique, stone tablet of the Ten Commandments? Just like the ones Charlton Hesston broke in the Ten Commandments movie. Maybe some enterprising person later on had one made by the local stone mason so he could sell tickets to see the Ten Commandments. Probably profitable.

The copy that sold for $850,000 was dated to between 400 and 600 AD.
Moses lived in the 13th or 14th century BCE. Tradition requires that
a damaged Torah or other religeous document should be fully destroyed
and buried. That's not such a dumb idea. Jews were very interested
in insuring that copies of the Torah (and presumably the 10
commandments) were reproduced exactly that same as the original. If
the scribe made a mistake copying the Torah, there's no erasing and
correcting. It is burned and buried and the scribe has to start over
from scratch. $25,000 to $35,000 for a new scroll from Israel.
<https://www.torahscrolls.net/index.php/cPath/1_6>

Incidentally, there were two set to tablets mentioned in Exodus. The
first were carved by God(tm) but were destroyed by Moses when he
arrived to deliver them, only to find that the people had switched
religions and now worshiped a golden calf. He threw down the tables,
which in the Cecil B DeMille movie version, opened a big hole in the
ground, which swallowed the idol worshipers and the original tablets.
No mention is made of what happened to the golden calf.

Having disposed of the idol worshipers, Moses again climbed up the
mountain to replace the broken tablets. The 3D printer was busy, so
God(tm) just hacked out the tablets, while Moses assisted with the
necessary engraving.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablets_of_Stone>
"...the second were later chiseled out by Moses and rewritten by God"
(Exodus 34:1)

Trade in counterfeit and stolen antiquities are still big business in
the middle east. In some countries, looting and grave robbing are
national pastimes.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 14 May 2022 10:19:50 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:22:44 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
><ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>There is an official ancient, antique, stone tablet of the Ten Commandments? Just like the ones Charlton Hesston broke in the Ten Commandments movie. Maybe some enterprising person later on had one made by the local stone mason so he could sell tickets to see the Ten Commandments. Probably profitable.
>
>The copy that sold for $850,000 was dated to between 400 and 600 AD.
>Moses lived in the 13th or 14th century BCE. Tradition requires that
>a damaged Torah or other religeous document should be fully destroyed
>and buried. That's not such a dumb idea. Jews were very interested
>in insuring that copies of the Torah (and presumably the 10
>commandments) were reproduced exactly that same as the original. If
>the scribe made a mistake copying the Torah, there's no erasing and
>correcting. It is burned and buried and the scribe has to start over
>from scratch. $25,000 to $35,000 for a new scroll from Israel.
><https://www.torahscrolls.net/index.php/cPath/1_6>

Has the stone been officially dated?

I read that "Michaels said the tablet probably adorned a synagogue in
Yavneh, in what is now western Israel. But the synagogue is believed
to have been destroyed by either the 11th century crusaders or by
Romans between 400 and 600 A.D."
and
"Experts dated the stone to the late Roman or Byzantine era,
approximately 300 to 500 A.D., and made their estimate based on the
style of the letters used."

Note that "Michaels" is a bloke that works for the auction company.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:44:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:30:00 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
><ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things.
>
>Yep. I noticed that. It takes effort to always be wrong. My
>guess(tm) is that the problem is related to the number of postings. I
>haven't counted lately, but Tom generates at least one comment to
>every topic and constitutes about 1/3 of the traffic (my guess) in
>RBT. I originally thought that he's trying to impress people with the
>extent of his experience, knowledge, and wisdom. Today, I'm more
>inclined to believe he's a Usenet graffiti artist, who has to put his
>name or mark on everything. The kids and gangs do this with spray
>paint. Tom does it with attention getting errors and amazing facts.
>If he would reduce his prodigious output to something more manageable
>and concentrate on getting things right, the accuracy might hopefully
>improve.

But simply being noticed is just SO satisfying to those of Tom's or
the bloke in Ireland's ilk.

"Can you imagine Mommy? Someone noticed me today!"
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 11:44:09 AM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:30:00 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things.
> Yep. I noticed that. It takes effort to always be wrong.

I'm not really talking about the wrong aspect of everything Tommy says. Which is true of course. Wrong Tommy. But what he is wrong about. Moses Ten Commandments. Environmentalists blowing up oil wells in the Gulf by lighting the off gas on fire. And so many other things I cannot even recall. The imagination Tommy uses to come up with these topics is breathtaking. I believe for pure mental activity, Tommy boy is right up there with Einstein and Tesla and Bell. Of course they thought about useful topics. And Tommy thinks about inane nonsensical topics. But the brain power Tommy puts into these topics is amazing. Of course why, I don't know.

> My
> guess(tm) is that the problem is related to the number of postings. I
> haven't counted lately, but Tom generates at least one comment to
> every topic and constitutes about 1/3 of the traffic (my guess) in
> RBT. I originally thought that he's trying to impress people with the
> extent of his experience, knowledge, and wisdom. Today, I'm more
> inclined to believe he's a Usenet graffiti artist, who has to put his
> name or mark on everything. The kids and gangs do this with spray
> paint. Tom does it with attention getting errors and amazing facts.
> If he would reduce his prodigious output to something more manageable
> and concentrate on getting things right, the accuracy might hopefully
> improve.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:48:48 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:44:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
> >On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:30:00 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> ><ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things.
> >
> >Yep. I noticed that. It takes effort to always be wrong. My
> >guess(tm) is that the problem is related to the number of postings. I
> >haven't counted lately, but Tom generates at least one comment to
> >every topic and constitutes about 1/3 of the traffic (my guess) in
> >RBT. I originally thought that he's trying to impress people with the
> >extent of his experience, knowledge, and wisdom. Today, I'm more
> >inclined to believe he's a Usenet graffiti artist, who has to put his
> >name or mark on everything. The kids and gangs do this with spray
> >paint. Tom does it with attention getting errors and amazing facts.
> >If he would reduce his prodigious output to something more manageable
> >and concentrate on getting things right, the accuracy might hopefully
> >improve.
> But simply being noticed is just SO satisfying to those of Tom's or
> the bloke in Ireland's ilk.
>
> "Can you imagine Mommy? Someone noticed me today!"
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

I thought the other idiot was in Scotland. But you think its Ireland? A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the road.

On Sat, 14 May 2022 18:28:13 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:48:48 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:44:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:30:00 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> ><ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things.
>> >
>> >Yep. I noticed that. It takes effort to always be wrong. My
>> >guess(tm) is that the problem is related to the number of postings. I
>> >haven't counted lately, but Tom generates at least one comment to
>> >every topic and constitutes about 1/3 of the traffic (my guess) in
>> >RBT. I originally thought that he's trying to impress people with the
>> >extent of his experience, knowledge, and wisdom. Today, I'm more
>> >inclined to believe he's a Usenet graffiti artist, who has to put his
>> >name or mark on everything. The kids and gangs do this with spray
>> >paint. Tom does it with attention getting errors and amazing facts.
>> >If he would reduce his prodigious output to something more manageable
>> >and concentrate on getting things right, the accuracy might hopefully
>> >improve.
>> But simply being noticed is just SO satisfying to those of Tom's or
>> the bloke in Ireland's ilk.
>>
>> "Can you imagine Mommy? Someone noticed me today!"
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>I thought the other idiot was in Scotland. But you think its Ireland? A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the road.

Well, he was in Ireland when he wrote his thrilling tale of building
an Electric Bicycle as I distinctly remember his bemoaning the
extremely high cost of the Irish road tax on a "motor scooter" as one
of the basic reasons for building it.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 15 May 2022 05:17:50 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 14 May 2022 10:19:50 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:22:44 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>><ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>There is an official ancient, antique, stone tablet of the Ten Commandments? Just like the ones Charlton Hesston broke in the Ten Commandments movie. Maybe some enterprising person later on had one made by the local stone mason so he could sell tickets to see the Ten Commandments. Probably profitable.
>>
>>The copy that sold for $850,000 was dated to between 400 and 600 AD.
>>Moses lived in the 13th or 14th century BCE. Tradition requires that
>>a damaged Torah or other religeous document should be fully destroyed
>>and buried. That's not such a dumb idea. Jews were very interested
>>in insuring that copies of the Torah (and presumably the 10
>>commandments) were reproduced exactly that same as the original. If
>>the scribe made a mistake copying the Torah, there's no erasing and
>>correcting. It is burned and buried and the scribe has to start over
>>from scratch. $25,000 to $35,000 for a new scroll from Israel.
>><https://www.torahscrolls.net/index.php/cPath/1_6>
>
>Has the stone been officially dated?

I don't know. I would assume that it would need to be authenticated
by a respected authority before anyone would spend $850,000 to posses
it. Digging deeper:
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38011205>
"The carving was discovered in 1913 during the excavation for a
railway line near the city of Yavneh, an historical Jewish centre of
learning, now in present-day Israel."

Notice how the age of the tablet keep changing. Argh.

Plenty of photos over the years:
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=10+commandments+Yavneh>

More history of the tablet:
<http://cojs.org/samaritan_ten_commandments-_7th-12th_century/>
"The date of the inscription is also uncertain. It is difficult to
date on paleographical grounds - that is, by the shape and form of the
letters. It appears to date from sometime between the seventh century
and 12th century of the Common Era."
An earlier 2,000 year old copy of the 10 commandments on goat skin
exists. Therefore, the tablet is not the oldest copy of the 10
commandments, but is probably the oldest stone tablet copy:
"One of earliest known copies of Ten Commandments sees the light of
day"
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/one-of-earliest-known-copies-of-ten-commandments-sees-the-light-of-day/2015/05/21/fdd001bb-7d43-4777-aa46-931a18a51798_story.html>

I'm not finding any mention of independent authentication. However, I
find it difficult to believe that anyone would pay that much for an
artifact which hadn't been previously authenticated.

>I read that "Michaels said the tablet probably adorned a synagogue in
>Yavneh, in what is now western Israel. But the synagogue is believed
>to have been destroyed by either the 11th century crusaders or by
>Romans between 400 and 600 A.D."
>and
>"Experts dated the stone to the late Roman or Byzantine era,
>approximately 300 to 500 A.D., and made their estimate based on the
>style of the letters used."
>
>Note that "Michaels" is a bloke that works for the auction company.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 14 May 2022 20:07:23 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 15 May 2022 05:17:50 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 14 May 2022 10:19:50 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:22:44 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>>><ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>There is an official ancient, antique, stone tablet of the Ten Commandments? Just like the ones Charlton Hesston broke in the Ten Commandments movie. Maybe some enterprising person later on had one made by the local stone mason so he could sell tickets to see the Ten Commandments. Probably profitable.
>>>
>>>The copy that sold for $850,000 was dated to between 400 and 600 AD.
>>>Moses lived in the 13th or 14th century BCE. Tradition requires that
>>>a damaged Torah or other religeous document should be fully destroyed
>>>and buried. That's not such a dumb idea. Jews were very interested
>>>in insuring that copies of the Torah (and presumably the 10
>>>commandments) were reproduced exactly that same as the original. If
>>>the scribe made a mistake copying the Torah, there's no erasing and
>>>correcting. It is burned and buried and the scribe has to start over
>>>from scratch. $25,000 to $35,000 for a new scroll from Israel.
>>><https://www.torahscrolls.net/index.php/cPath/1_6>
>>
>>Has the stone been officially dated?
>
>I don't know. I would assume that it would need to be authenticated
>by a respected authority before anyone would spend $850,000 to posses
>it. Digging deeper:
><https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38011205>
>"The carving was discovered in 1913 during the excavation for a
>railway line near the city of Yavneh, an historical Jewish centre of
>learning, now in present-day Israel."
>
>Notice how the age of the tablet keep changing. Argh.
>
>Plenty of photos over the years:
><https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=10+commandments+Yavneh>
>
>More history of the tablet:
><http://cojs.org/samaritan_ten_commandments-_7th-12th_century/>
>"The date of the inscription is also uncertain. It is difficult to
>date on paleographical grounds - that is, by the shape and form of the
>letters. It appears to date from sometime between the seventh century
>and 12th century of the Common Era."
>
>An earlier 2,000 year old copy of the 10 commandments on goat skin
>exists. Therefore, the tablet is not the oldest copy of the 10
>commandments, but is probably the oldest stone tablet copy:
>"One of earliest known copies of Ten Commandments sees the light of
>day"
><https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/one-of-earliest-known-copies-of-ten-commandments-sees-the-light-of-day/2015/05/21/fdd001bb-7d43-4777-aa46-931a18a51798_story.html>
>
>I'm not finding any mention of independent authentication. However, I
>find it difficult to believe that anyone would pay that much for an
>artifact which hadn't been previously authenticated.
>

Well... people pay some rather astonishing prices for some rather
(would one say) strange things sold for large sums of money :-)
https://businesstech.co.za/news/trending/103797/weirdest-things-sold-at-auction-for-millions/
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:24:30 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Well... people pay some rather astonishing prices for some rather
>(would one say) strange things sold for large sums of money :-)
>https://businesstech.co.za/news/trending/103797/weirdest-things-sold-at-auction-for-millions/

<https://www.foxnews.com/science/got-250000-earliest-known-10-commandments-inscription-up-for-auction>
The bidding started at $250,000 and it eventually sold for $850,000.
The video adds some interesting details.

"How to Make a Replica of the Ten Commandements on Fake Stone Tablets"
<https://www.ehow.com/how_5695382_make-commandements-fake-stone-tablets.html>

"The Mysterious Rocks from Mount Sinai"
<https://dafyomireview.com/article.php?docid=528>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 14 May 2022 20:59:42 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:24:30 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Well... people pay some rather astonishing prices for some rather
>>(would one say) strange things sold for large sums of money :-)
>>https://businesstech.co.za/news/trending/103797/weirdest-things-sold-at-auction-for-millions/
>
><https://www.foxnews.com/science/got-250000-earliest-known-10-commandments-inscription-up-for-auction>
>The bidding started at $250,000 and it eventually sold for $850,000.
>The video adds some interesting details.
>
>"How to Make a Replica of the Ten Commandements on Fake Stone Tablets"
><https://www.ehow.com/how_5695382_make-commandements-fake-stone-tablets.html>
>
>"The Mysterious Rocks from Mount Sinai"
><https://dafyomireview.com/article.php?docid=528>

Is the location of the Mt. Sinia, where the Ten Commandments were
given to Moses, known?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/14/2022 6:19 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 11:44:09 AM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:30:00 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things.
>> Yep. I noticed that. It takes effort to always be wrong.
>
> I'm not really talking about the wrong aspect of everything Tommy says. Which is true of course. Wrong Tommy. But what he is wrong about. Moses Ten Commandments. Environmentalists blowing up oil wells in the Gulf by lighting the off gas on fire. And so many other things I cannot even recall. The imagination Tommy uses to come up with these topics is breathtaking. I believe for pure mental activity, Tommy boy is right up there with Einstein and Tesla and Bell. Of course they thought about useful topics. And Tommy thinks about inane nonsensical topics. But the brain power Tommy puts into these topics is amazing. Of course why, I don't know.

There are all sorts of crazy right-wing conspiracy web sites. Pretty
sure that's where he gets these topics. He doesn't come up with them
himself, he just repeats them. Since he lacks any critical thinking
skills, he falls victim to these theories.

For the ten commandments, a 1500 year old stone inscription was found in
1913 and was sold for $850,000 in 2016. Somehow he got the idea that
these were the original ten commandments tablets, which of course are
unlikely to ever have existed, despite the story in the bible.

On 5/14/2022 6:28 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

> I thought the other idiot was in Scotland. But you think its Ireland? A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the road.

It would not be a nice place to ride a road bike because the roads are
very narrow.

Ireland is one of the few countries (Ireland, Israel, Italy) that most
credit cards exclude from Collision Damage Waiver coverage for rental
cars. World Elite Mastercard is the exception. The fact that they drive
on the left (wrong) side of the road in Ireland is another complication,
but you get used to that pretty quickly. That may change eventually
though. Sweden switched
<https://realscandinavia.com/this-day-in-history-swedish-traffic-switches-sides-september-3-1967/>
and other European countries may switch as well.

The best part of driving in Ireland, and one that Tom would appreciate,
was the service plaza we stopped at with a gas station, restaurants, and
a museum upstairs: <https://barackobamaplaza.ie/>. "The Barack Obama
Plaza is a purpose built motorway service station located at Junction 23
on the M7 Dublin to Limerick motorway. We opened our doors in 2014 and
have a vast variety of food offerings which include a Supermac’s, Papa
John’s Pizza, SuperSubs, Mac’s Place Deli and a Bewley’s Coffee Barista
station. The Obama Plaza also has a state of the art conference facility
as well as The Barack Obama visitors centre which is hugely popular with
visiting tourists."

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 9:28:14 PM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:48:48 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:44:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> > wrote:
> > >On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:30:00 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> > ><ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things.
> > >
> > >Yep. I noticed that. It takes effort to always be wrong. My
> > >guess(tm) is that the problem is related to the number of postings. I
> > >haven't counted lately, but Tom generates at least one comment to
> > >every topic and constitutes about 1/3 of the traffic (my guess) in
> > >RBT. I originally thought that he's trying to impress people with the
> > >extent of his experience, knowledge, and wisdom. Today, I'm more
> > >inclined to believe he's a Usenet graffiti artist, who has to put his
> > >name or mark on everything. The kids and gangs do this with spray
> > >paint. Tom does it with attention getting errors and amazing facts.
> > >If he would reduce his prodigious output to something more manageable
> > >and concentrate on getting things right, the accuracy might hopefully
> > >improve.
> > But simply being noticed is just SO satisfying to those of Tom's or
> > the bloke in Ireland's ilk.
> >
> > "Can you imagine Mommy? Someone noticed me today!"
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >
> > John B.
> I thought the other idiot was in Scotland. But you think its Ireland? A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the road.

Yes, it's Ireland.

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 4:53:21 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 1:15:59 PM UTC-7, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 5:05:14 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> > > Like most things from history it is subject to interpretation. As an
> > > example, the oldest known written copy of the Commandments, on a
> > > tablet of stone, says "thou shall not commit murder" while many modern
> > > Christian Bibles say "thou shall not kill". Perhaps subtle but a
> > > difference never the less.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > John B.
> > I beg to differ. (I'm splitting hairs here a bit; since you capitalized Commandments I assume you intend to refer to the classic Ten, rather than the 624 total. If not you can weasel out) The Ten Commandments say neither murder nor kill.
> >
> > We know there was something called the Ten. We get our Sunday School versions of the Ten from Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. However, if you actually look these up, you will notice something strange. First, nowhere do they claim to be the Ten. Second, there is no easy way to get Ten separate commandments out of either text. It just doesn't line up that way. Give them to someone not familiar, and usually they'll see 14 to 19. Try it yourself.
> >
> > However, there IS one place in the Old Testament that specifically lists the Ten Commandments and makes the claim. Unfortunately Exodus 34 doesn't contain the usual Ten, other than not making idols and honoring the Sabbath. This is sometimes called the Ritual Decalogue. When Ten Commandments is referred to in scripture, it is always the ritual Ten and not the modern Sunday School Ten.
> Uh, I hope you know that not too long ago the recovered stone tablets of Moses were found and recent sold for $850,000. There were supposedly ten commandments on it. Rather weather worn but you cannot invent your own religion.

Every religion was invented. Further, everyone invents their own version.

On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:48:48 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:44:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 00:30:00 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Besides the ignorance, I find it fairly amazing one person can come up with such outlandish things.
>>>
>>> Yep. I noticed that. It takes effort to always be wrong. My
>>> guess(tm) is that the problem is related to the number of postings. I
>>> haven't counted lately, but Tom generates at least one comment to
>>> every topic and constitutes about 1/3 of the traffic (my guess) in
>>> RBT. I originally thought that he's trying to impress people with the
>>> extent of his experience, knowledge, and wisdom. Today, I'm more
>>> inclined to believe he's a Usenet graffiti artist, who has to put his
>>> name or mark on everything. The kids and gangs do this with spray
>>> paint. Tom does it with attention getting errors and amazing facts.
>>> If he would reduce his prodigious output to something more manageable
>>> and concentrate on getting things right, the accuracy might hopefully
>>> improve.
>> But simply being noticed is just SO satisfying to those of Tom's or
>> the bloke in Ireland's ilk.
>>
>> "Can you imagine Mommy? Someone noticed me today!"
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
> I thought the other idiot was in Scotland. But you think its Ireland? A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the road.
>

+1
Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some
scary moments driving a rental car in Ireland.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:

>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they
>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides
>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the
>> road.

Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity must be
rather limited.

> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some scary
> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.

And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American driver!

After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and Hungarian" to
become the EU's exclusive official languages, to "further strengthen
cohesion." Now, I'm more serious than ever about it -- because I would
not have to bear hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.

--
"Die voer van bobbejane is gevaarlik en is'n misdaad volgens die wet."

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:37:15 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> AMuzi wrote:
> > On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
> >> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they
> >> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides
> >> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the
> >> road.
> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity must be
> rather limited.
> > +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some scary
> > moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American driver!
>
> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and Hungarian" to
> become the EU's exclusive official languages, to "further strengthen
> cohesion." Now, I'm more serious than ever about it -- because I would
> not have to bear hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.

Seriously, I am quite surprised that Germany would remain in an EU that is anything other than military cooperation should that ever become necessary. I think that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine has shown that will probably never become even a viable option for the Russians. Against even the Germans, Russia would not become helpless unless it was Germany invading Russia where every Russian then becomes a defender. Clearly offense is much harder than defense so Germany who have learned a very hard lesson could stop anything short of a nuclear exchange with ease.

On 5/15/2022 10:37 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except
>>> they
>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three
>>> bike rides
>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right
>>> side of the
>>> road.
>
> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity
> must be rather limited.
>
>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had
>> some scary
>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
>
> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American
> driver!
>
> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and
> Hungarian" to become the EU's exclusive official languages,
> to "further strengthen cohesion." Now, I'm more serious
> than ever about it -- because I would not have to bear
> hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
>

She's very good with manuals- my column or floor shift cars-
as she grew up on tractors. (still calls the throttle pedal
'foot-feed').

But typical traveler's signage confusion, complicated by
language and added to ass-backwards intuition is daunting.

I had the same sorts of troubles cycling in Japan. I read
slowly and with difficulty and in traffic, when a
split-second is critical, I intuitively react wrong.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/15/2022 7:12 AM, AMuzi wrote:

<snip>

> +1
> Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some scary
> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.

While left-side driving takes some getting used to, when we were in
Ireland a few years ago I don't recall any road signage not being in
English. Driving a stick and shifting with your left hand takes a little
getting used to as well. They rent automatics but they were much more
expensive and used gasoline instead of diesel, which was also more
expensive.

What takes more getting used to is the narrow roads, often with no
shoulder. Not a lot of room for lazily drifting onto on a non-existent
shoulder. Some of the most spectacular drives in Ireland are on those
roads <https://www.theirishroadtrip.com/crazy-roads-in-ireland/>.

The best part of driving in Ireland came as a bit of a surprise to us,
when we needed to stop for fuel in Moneygall. They have an awesome
service plaza there: <https://barackobamaplaza.ie/moneygall/>. We got
fuel, ate lunch, and visited the museum.

On 5/15/2022 10:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:37:15 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>> AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 5/14/2022 8:28 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>> A friend's daughter is working in Ireland right now. I
>>>> bet Ireland would be a nice place to ride a bike. Except they
>>>> drive/ride on the wrong side of the road. On my three bike rides
>>>> in Europe, I was very glad they drove/rode on the right side of the
>>>> road.
>> Another indication that russ...'s mental operating capacity must be
>> rather limited.
>>> +1 Between left side and signage in Gaelic, girlfriend had some scary
>>> moments driving a rental car in Ireland.
>> And not even a stick-shift? What an ill-prepared, American driver!
>>
>> After Brexit, I ironically expected "Gaelic, Estonian, and Hungarian" to
>> become the EU's exclusive official languages, to "further strengthen
>> cohesion." Now, I'm more serious than ever about it -- because I would
>> not have to bear hearing vonderLeyen speak, but only her interpreters.
>
> Seriously, I am quite surprised that Germany would remain in an EU that is anything other than military cooperation should that ever become necessary. I think that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine has shown that will probably never become even a viable option for the Russians. Against even the Germans, Russia would not become helpless unless it was Germany invading Russia where every Russian then becomes a defender. Clearly offense is much harder than defense so Germany who have learned a very hard lesson could stop anything short of a nuclear exchange with ease.
>

They took a miserable 2d Place to the Red Army last time.

Too many factors to call it either way.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971