On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 11:34:03 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 1/19/2022 3:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Short version: VAERS data is crowd sourced and not reliable. Don't
>> use it to establish either Covid-19 causes or effects.
>
>OMG, please don't suggest that Tom use reliable data, he'd have to stop
>posting.
>
>We'd be done with Covid already if not for so many right-wing lunatics
>buying into all the conspiracy theories, citing fake data, promoting
>fake cures and opposing masks. Even Trump has been urging people to get
>vaccinated, probably realizing that if he wants to run again he needs
>live people to vote for him.
>
>No one should be forced to get vaccinated, but there needs to be
>consequences for those that decide to "own the libs" by contributing to
>the spread of Covid by not getting vaccinated. They can stay in their
>own homes and cars, but unvaccinated individuals should not be allowed
>to be in publicly accessible indoor locations like stores, offices,
>restaurants, hotels, hospitals, airports and airplanes, cruise ships,
>public transportation, etc. until the pandemic is completely over. They
>also should be paying more for health insurance than regular people.

But don't most, probably all, states have legally enforced
vaccination?

I distinctly remember that I had to be vaccinated before I was allowed
to enter the first grade in public school. In fact my vaccination
didn't "take" and as I had no scar on my arm I had to get a
certificate from the doctor stating that I had been vaccinated.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 14:01:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 3:17:44 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 11:37:18 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 2:34:06 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
>> > > On 1/19/2022 3:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> > >
>> > > <snip>
>> > >
>> > > > Short version: VAERS data is crowd sourced and not reliable. Don't
>> > > > use it to establish either Covid-19 causes or effects.
>> > >
>> > > OMG, please don't suggest that Tom use reliable data, he'd have to stop
>> > > posting.
>> > >
>> > > We'd be done with Covid already if not for so many right-wing lunatics
>> > > buying into all the conspiracy theories, citing fake data, promoting
>> > > fake cures and opposing masks. Even Trump has been urging people to get
>> > > vaccinated, probably realizing that if he wants to run again he needs
>> > > live people to vote for him.
>> > >
>> > > No one should be forced to get vaccinated, but there needs to be
>> > > consequences for those that decide to "own the libs" by contributing to
>> > > the spread of Covid by not getting vaccinated. They can stay in their
>> > > own homes and cars, but unvaccinated individuals should not be allowed
>> > > to be in publicly accessible indoor locations like stores, offices,
>> > > restaurants, hotels, hospitals, airports and airplanes, cruise ships,
>> > > public transportation, etc. until the pandemic is completely over. They
>> > > also should be paying more for health insurance than regular people.
>> > "no shirt
>> > no shoes
>> > no vax
>> > no service"
>>
>> Perhaps it should be no brains, not sense, no service - this identifies you perfectly. Tell me you queer - why is it that everything I've said, the CDC is now repeating almost word for word?
>
> No, they haven't, in fact the opposite is true, you've been shown repeatedly that they continue to refute every claim you've made.
>
>> Masks do not work
>
>There is no report from the CDC stating that. The report you like to trot out isn't from the CDC, you brain-dead twit, it's from a chinese college student. There is no information from the CDC stating masks don't work.
>
>> Social distancing has no effect on an airborne virus
>
>There is no report from the CDC stating that.
>
>> rather than 814,000 people killed at the very most it was 7,031 at the last count.
>
>There is no report from the CDC stating that. You don't have the capacity to understand the actual "excess deaths" data.
>
>> Vaccines have killed and permanently injured more people than they have saved from anything.
>
>Blatant lies spurted at you from the Qanon phallus that you eagerly lap up.
>
>> There hasn't been a recorded case of anyone under 21 dying from covid regardless of their health condition
>
>Blatant lie. The CDC data states 32% had no underlying conditions
>https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjL6pb79Nz1AhUpkIkEHZwFCDEQFnoECBUQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fvaccines%2Facip%2Fmeetings%2Fdownloads%2Fslides-2021-11-2-3%2F03-COVID-Jefferson-508.pdf&usg=AOvVaw020kr0pSRNZHxExt1Fh5m6
>
>> and they have not shown that children of school age can transmit the illness.
>
>Blatant lie, it's well documented,
>"a November 2021 study conducted by Harvard researchers again confirmed that children carry live virus capable of infecting others."
>https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-outbreak-and-kids
>
>> The average age of death of the few that have died from covid-19 is 82 with up to 8 comorbidities while in the USA, the average age of death is 76.
>
>It doesn't help you to make shit up, sparky.
>
>> Tell me you rotting bag of flesh - what do you suppose when this all finally sinks in and
>> you continue to shoot your mouth off like that grand expert you believe yourself to be,
>> people are going to do to you?
>
>Considering idiots like you are the only ones who buy into your bullshit, I really couldn't give a flying fuck what you people think - or what you think they are "going to do to me" - they'll probably crawl back into the little shitholes they crawled out of.
>
>>
>> Do you want to change over to man-made climate change where you're equally stupid?
>> Just a couple of days ago they were talking about the San Francisco Sea Wall that they
>> built 100 years ago so that they could place landfill and build the present Downtown
>> area. Seems as how the tide markers are the same one's placed then and haven't moved.
>
>So? What does the fact that they haven't moved a tide marker mean? I think it's more likely you read an article saying that they haven't moved them in 100 years, and they are almost constantly below water now, but you're such a deceitful shitbag you're deliberately leaving out that information.
>
>> After stupid mother's like you told us that the Marquesan Islands would be drowned by 2002.
>> Instead they are now 3 feet higher out of the water than that prediction from another of your most beloved experts - Al Gore.
>
>1) No one ever said the Marquesan Islands would be under water
>2) I'd ask you for a link explaining the alleged 3 foot rise, but I know you'll come you'll come up short like usual.
>
>> Tell me what, have you ever gotten one thing right?
>
>Yes, everytime I have any interaction with you, I'm always right, and you're always wrong (except for claiming jobst published your address).
>
>> When almost the entirety of the US and Europe were locked in a deep freeze why were your "experts" at NOAA saying that this was the hottest year forever
>
>Because it _was_ the hottest year on record, and you _still_ don't understand the difference between weather and climate.
>
>> and that the ice cover of the arctic was melting when in actuality the ice cover is more than in 2006?
>
>BZZZZT. Wrong again:"By early January 2022, Arctic sea ice extent, while well below average, was within the lowest decile of recorded extents of the 1981 to 2010 reference period."
>https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
>
>> If there is anything in your life that you could get right why don't you at least try and make it known.
>
>well, In addition to everything above, there's also the fact that PWM is not used to test cables, "light line" is a term that only exists in your deluded mind, the north won most of the civil war battels before the emancipation proclamation including the most important ones, Barack Obama did _not_ inherit a good economy, my oh my, I could go on and on.
>
>> Maybe you and Scharf - the failed politician who even the far left citizens of Los Gatos can't stand
>> for his continuous string of lies and bullshit - and have a lovechild. You two were made for each other,
>> a failed politician and and a failed technician
>
>Hmmm....still gainfully employed engineer versus a technical hack who could never keep a jon for a year....
>shut the fuck up tommy

Calm, calm. Stop, slow down, take a few deep breaths and I'm sure that
you will feel better in a minute.

You must realize that our very own Tommy is a world renown expert.
People, famous people, are standing in line, there in San Leandro to
touch his hand and receive his blessing.

You see, just like the bloke on the road to Damascus who was hit by
the bright light and after three days recovered and began to write
letters to everyone so did our Tommy fall off his bike, hit his head
on the ground, and when recovered began posting on the Internet.

A bit of protocol here. When approaching Himself the full Kowtow, the
old Chinese bowing to the ground, is not required. a simple slight
bowing of the head and the hands in a prayer like manner is sufficient
when greeting the Sage of San Leandro.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 14:32:01 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 2:01:22 PM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 3:17:44 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 11:37:18 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > > On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 2:34:06 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
>> > > > On 1/19/2022 3:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > <snip>
>> > > >
>> > > > > Short version: VAERS data is crowd sourced and not reliable. Don't
>> > > > > use it to establish either Covid-19 causes or effects.
>> > > >
>> > > > OMG, please don't suggest that Tom use reliable data, he'd have to stop
>> > > > posting.
>> > > >
>> > > > We'd be done with Covid already if not for so many right-wing lunatics
>> > > > buying into all the conspiracy theories, citing fake data, promoting
>> > > > fake cures and opposing masks. Even Trump has been urging people to get
>> > > > vaccinated, probably realizing that if he wants to run again he needs
>> > > > live people to vote for him.
>> > > >
>> > > > No one should be forced to get vaccinated, but there needs to be
>> > > > consequences for those that decide to "own the libs" by contributing to
>> > > > the spread of Covid by not getting vaccinated. They can stay in their
>> > > > own homes and cars, but unvaccinated individuals should not be allowed
>> > > > to be in publicly accessible indoor locations like stores, offices,
>> > > > restaurants, hotels, hospitals, airports and airplanes, cruise ships,
>> > > > public transportation, etc. until the pandemic is completely over. They
>> > > > also should be paying more for health insurance than regular people.
>> > > "no shirt
>> > > no shoes
>> > > no vax
>> > > no service"
>> >
>> > Perhaps it should be no brains, not sense, no service - this identifies you perfectly. Tell me you queer - why is it that everything I've said, the CDC is now repeating almost word for word?
>> No, they haven't, in fact the opposite is true, you've been shown repeatedly that they continue to refute every claim you've made.
>>
>> > Masks do not work
>>
>> There is no report from the CDC stating that. The report you like to trot out isn't from the CDC, you brain-dead twit, it's from a chinese college student. There is no information from the CDC stating masks don't work.
>>
>> > Social distancing has no effect on an airborne virus
>>
>> There is no report from the CDC stating that.
>> > rather than 814,000 people killed at the very most it was 7,031 at the last count.
>> There is no report from the CDC stating that. You don't have the capacity to understand the actual "excess deaths" data.
>> > Vaccines have killed and permanently injured more people than they have saved from anything.
>> Blatant lies spurted at you from the Qanon phallus that you eagerly lap up.
>> > There hasn't been a recorded case of anyone under 21 dying from covid regardless of their health condition
>> Blatant lie. The CDC data states 32% had no underlying conditions
>> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjL6pb79Nz1AhUpkIkEHZwFCDEQFnoECBUQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fvaccines%2Facip%2Fmeetings%2Fdownloads%2Fslides-2021-11-2-3%2F03-COVID-Jefferson-508.pdf&usg=AOvVaw020kr0pSRNZHxExt1Fh5m6
>> > and they have not shown that children of school age can transmit the illness.
>> Blatant lie, it's well documented,
>> "a November 2021 study conducted by Harvard researchers again confirmed that children carry live virus capable of infecting others."
>> https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-outbreak-and-kids
>> > The average age of death of the few that have died from covid-19 is 82 with up to 8 comorbidities while in the USA, the average age of death is 76.
>> It doesn't help you to make shit up, sparky.
>> > Tell me you rotting bag of flesh - what do you suppose when this all finally sinks in and
>> > you continue to shoot your mouth off like that grand expert you believe yourself to be,
>> > people are going to do to you?
>> Considering idiots like you are the only ones who buy into your bullshit, I really couldn't give a flying fuck what you people think - or what you think they are "going to do to me" - they'll probably crawl back into the little shitholes they crawled out of.
>> >
>> > Do you want to change over to man-made climate change where you're equally stupid?
>> > Just a couple of days ago they were talking about the San Francisco Sea Wall that they
>> > built 100 years ago so that they could place landfill and build the present Downtown
>> > area. Seems as how the tide markers are the same one's placed then and haven't moved.
>> So? What does the fact that they haven't moved a tide marker mean? I think it's more likely you read an article saying that they haven't moved them in 100 years, and they are almost constantly below water now, but you're such a deceitful shitbag you're deliberately leaving out that information.
>> > After stupid mother's like you told us that the Marquesan Islands would be drowned by 2002.
>> > Instead they are now 3 feet higher out of the water than that prediction from another of your most beloved experts - Al Gore.
>> 1) No one ever said the Marquesan Islands would be under water
>> 2) I'd ask you for a link explaining the alleged 3 foot rise, but I know you'll come you'll come up short like usual.
>> > Tell me what, have you ever gotten one thing right?
>> Yes, everytime I have any interaction with you, I'm always right, and you're always wrong (except for claiming jobst published your address).
>> > When almost the entirety of the US and Europe were locked in a deep freeze why were your "experts" at NOAA saying that this was the hottest year forever
>> Because it _was_ the hottest year on record, and you _still_ don't understand the difference between weather and climate.
>> > and that the ice cover of the arctic was melting when in actuality the ice cover is more than in 2006?
>> BZZZZT. Wrong again:"By early January 2022, Arctic sea ice extent, while well below average, was within the lowest decile of recorded extents of the 1981 to 2010 reference period."
>> https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
>> > If there is anything in your life that you could get right why don't you at least try and make it known.
>> well, In addition to everything above, there's also the fact that PWM is not used to test cables, "light line" is a term that only exists in your deluded mind, the north won most of the civil war battels before the emancipation proclamation including the most important ones, Barack Obama did _not_ inherit a good economy, my oh my, I could go on and on.
>> > Maybe you and Scharf - the failed politician who even the far left citizens of Los Gatos can't stand
>> > for his continuous string of lies and bullshit - and have a lovechild. You two were made for each other,
>> > a failed politician and and a failed technician
>> Hmmm....still gainfully employed engineer versus a technical hack who could never keep a jon for a year....
>> shut the fuck up tommy
>
>I have only explained dozens of times how to get the information from the CDC showing "Total number above average by cause" which at the latest update shows 7,031, but that is beyond your ability to comprehend. I suppose that UC Bolder should remove your so-called degree which I don't believe for one second.

Tommy, you are stupid.

Deaths due to Covid are deaths. Just like deaths from gunshots are
deaths.

Or are you arguing that the nearly 60,000 that have their names on the
Memorial in Washing for having died during the 20 years of the Vietnam
Escapade really didn't die at all as it was only an average of about
3,000 a year, far lower then the average number of normal deaths per
year from the CDC records?

An even closer look shows that actual deaths in combat amounted to
some 666,441 over a period from 1775 to 2019, certainly far less then
the "normal deaths" would have been so basically, the U.S. has had no
deaths at all in all of wars it has fought.

Tommy's theme Song
A real classic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I04kEZcqvi4

"The biggest fool that ever hit the big time
And all I gotta do is act naturally"
--
Cheers,

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 1/31/2022 1:34 PM, sms wrote:
>> On 1/19/2022 3:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Short version: VAERS data is crowd sourced and not
>>> reliable. Don't
>>> use it to establish either Covid-19 causes or effects.
>>
>> OMG, please don't suggest that Tom use reliable data, he'd
>> have to stop posting.
>>
>> We'd be done with Covid already if not for so many
>> right-wing lunatics buying into all the conspiracy theories,
>> citing fake data, promoting fake cures and opposing masks.
>> Even Trump has been urging people to get vaccinated,
>> probably realizing that if he wants to run again he needs
>> live people to vote for him.
>>
>> No one should be forced to get vaccinated, but there needs
>> to be consequences for those that decide to "own the libs"
>> by contributing to the spread of Covid by not getting
>> vaccinated. They can stay in their own homes and cars, but
>> unvaccinated individuals should not be allowed to be in
>> publicly accessible indoor locations like stores, offices,
>> restaurants, hotels, hospitals, airports and airplanes,
>> cruise ships, public transportation, etc. until the pandemic
>> is completely over. They also should be paying more for
>> health insurance than regular people.
>
> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent
> repeated contracting or spread. It does reduce mortality,
> which is a good thing. That effect is temporary. And, oh by
> the way, side effects are significant in some groups:
>
> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
>
> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
>

How do you define vaccine?

On 1/31/2022 7:44 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> On 1/31/2022 1:34 PM, sms wrote:
>>> On 1/19/2022 3:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Short version: VAERS data is crowd sourced and not
>>>> reliable. Don't
>>>> use it to establish either Covid-19 causes or effects.
>>>
>>> OMG, please don't suggest that Tom use reliable data, he'd
>>> have to stop posting.
>>>
>>> We'd be done with Covid already if not for so many
>>> right-wing lunatics buying into all the conspiracy theories,
>>> citing fake data, promoting fake cures and opposing masks.
>>> Even Trump has been urging people to get vaccinated,
>>> probably realizing that if he wants to run again he needs
>>> live people to vote for him.
>>>
>>> No one should be forced to get vaccinated, but there needs
>>> to be consequences for those that decide to "own the libs"
>>> by contributing to the spread of Covid by not getting
>>> vaccinated. They can stay in their own homes and cars, but
>>> unvaccinated individuals should not be allowed to be in
>>> publicly accessible indoor locations like stores, offices,
>>> restaurants, hotels, hospitals, airports and airplanes,
>>> cruise ships, public transportation, etc. until the pandemic
>>> is completely over. They also should be paying more for
>>> health insurance than regular people.
>>
>> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent
>> repeated contracting or spread. It does reduce mortality,
>> which is a good thing. That effect is temporary. And, oh by
>> the way, side effects are significant in some groups:
>>
>> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
>>
>> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
>>
>
> How do you define vaccine?
>

Until just now, 'vaccine' meant a preventative to infection
and transmission. mRNA shots are merely a shibboleth. Like
99% of masks*, the mRNA shot won't keep you from being
infected nor from spreading the virus to others.

https://news.yahoo.com/boston-mayor-likens-nyc-vaccination-184527878.html

What behavioral changes do you think would ensue among bums,
junkies and winos when the City offers $100 to accept the
shot? Bingo! You win, even though it was obvious from the
start:

https://iotwreport.com/video-reveals-disadvantaged-populations-taking-excessive-vaccines-for-tax-funded-gift-card-incentive/

* If you're freshly shaven, alcohol wiped, someone else
properly fits an N95 mask for you and you change it every
hour or two, the mask is doing something. For an aerosol
virus, almost all others do not.

https://cdn.notonthehighstreet.com/fs/d0/73/a8f6-4f01-4867-bffe-4ad65b7f9a19/original_washable-face-mask-soft-liberty-print-cotton.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 2:12:54 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
>
> * If you're freshly shaven, alcohol wiped, someone else
> properly fits an N95 mask for you and you change it every
> hour or two, the mask is doing something. For an aerosol
> virus, almost all others do not.
>
> https://cdn.notonthehighstreet.com/fs/d0/73/a8f6-4f01-4867-bffe-4ad65b7f9a19/original_washable-face-mask-soft-liberty-print-cotton.jpg
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
Look deep into your model's desperate eyes. She can't wait to get the thing off so she can breathe properly. -- AJ

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:11:58 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/31/2022 7:44 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 1/31/2022 1:34 PM, sms wrote:
>>>> On 1/19/2022 3:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Short version: VAERS data is crowd sourced and not
>>>>> reliable. Don't
>>>>> use it to establish either Covid-19 causes or effects.
>>>>
>>>> OMG, please don't suggest that Tom use reliable data, he'd
>>>> have to stop posting.
>>>>
>>>> We'd be done with Covid already if not for so many
>>>> right-wing lunatics buying into all the conspiracy theories,
>>>> citing fake data, promoting fake cures and opposing masks.
>>>> Even Trump has been urging people to get vaccinated,
>>>> probably realizing that if he wants to run again he needs
>>>> live people to vote for him.
>>>>
>>>> No one should be forced to get vaccinated, but there needs
>>>> to be consequences for those that decide to "own the libs"
>>>> by contributing to the spread of Covid by not getting
>>>> vaccinated. They can stay in their own homes and cars, but
>>>> unvaccinated individuals should not be allowed to be in
>>>> publicly accessible indoor locations like stores, offices,
>>>> restaurants, hotels, hospitals, airports and airplanes,
>>>> cruise ships, public transportation, etc. until the pandemic
>>>> is completely over. They also should be paying more for
>>>> health insurance than regular people.
>>>
>>> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent
>>> repeated contracting or spread. It does reduce mortality,
>>> which is a good thing. That effect is temporary. And, oh by
>>> the way, side effects are significant in some groups:
>>>
>>> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
>>>
>>> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
>>>
>>
>> How do you define vaccine?
>>
>
>Until just now, 'vaccine' meant a preventative to infection
>and transmission. mRNA shots are merely a shibboleth. Like
>99% of masks*, the mRNA shot won't keep you from being
>infected nor from spreading the virus to others.
>
>https://news.yahoo.com/boston-mayor-likens-nyc-vaccination-184527878.html
>
>What behavioral changes do you think would ensue among bums,
>junkies and winos when the City offers $100 to accept the
>shot? Bingo! You win, even though it was obvious from the
>start:
>
>https://iotwreport.com/video-reveals-disadvantaged-populations-taking-excessive-vaccines-for-tax-funded-gift-card-incentive/
>
>* If you're freshly shaven, alcohol wiped, someone else
>properly fits an N95 mask for you and you change it every
>hour or two, the mask is doing something. For an aerosol
>virus, almost all others do not.
>
>https://cdn.notonthehighstreet.com/fs/d0/73/a8f6-4f01-4867-bffe-4ad65b7f9a19/original_washable-face-mask-soft-liberty-print-cotton.jpg

From what I read the State of Illinois currently, apparently legally,
requires quite a number of immunizations prior to allowing children to
enter school
https://tinyurl.com/79pt2xw9
some 9 different diseases and (if I counted correctly) some 16
jabs" some of which are given to children less then 1 years old.

As for mRNA shots? Apparently they proved rather effective during the
2014-16 outbreak of Ebola Zaire as I read that

"Clinical efficacy of the vaccine was supported by a randomized
cluster (ring) vaccination study during the 2014–2016 outbreak in
Guinea. In this study, 3,775 people in close contact with diagnosed
EVD cases (contacts) and their close contacts (contacts of contacts)
received immediate vaccination. No one who was vaccinated immediately
developed EVD 10 or more days after vaccination."
https://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/clinicians/vaccine/index.html

--
Cheers,

John B.

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 1/31/2022 7:44 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 1/31/2022 1:34 PM, sms wrote:
>>>> On 1/19/2022 3:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Short version: VAERS data is crowd sourced and not
>>>>> reliable. Don't
>>>>> use it to establish either Covid-19 causes or effects.
>>>>
>>>> OMG, please don't suggest that Tom use reliable data, he'd
>>>> have to stop posting.
>>>>
>>>> We'd be done with Covid already if not for so many
>>>> right-wing lunatics buying into all the conspiracy theories,
>>>> citing fake data, promoting fake cures and opposing masks.
>>>> Even Trump has been urging people to get vaccinated,
>>>> probably realizing that if he wants to run again he needs
>>>> live people to vote for him.
>>>>
>>>> No one should be forced to get vaccinated, but there needs
>>>> to be consequences for those that decide to "own the libs"
>>>> by contributing to the spread of Covid by not getting
>>>> vaccinated. They can stay in their own homes and cars, but
>>>> unvaccinated individuals should not be allowed to be in
>>>> publicly accessible indoor locations like stores, offices,
>>>> restaurants, hotels, hospitals, airports and airplanes,
>>>> cruise ships, public transportation, etc. until the pandemic
>>>> is completely over. They also should be paying more for
>>>> health insurance than regular people.
>>>
>>> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent
>>> repeated contracting or spread. It does reduce mortality,
>>> which is a good thing. That effect is temporary. And, oh by
>>> the way, side effects are significant in some groups:
>>>
>>> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
>>>
>>> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
>>>
>>
>> How do you define vaccine?
>>
>
> Until just now, 'vaccine' meant a preventative to infection
> and transmission. mRNA shots are merely a shibboleth. Like
> 99% of masks*, the mRNA shot won't keep you from being
> infected nor from spreading the virus to others.

Maybe Madison was the control group. Vaccines (including the mRNA shots)
seem to be working just fine around here.

> https://news.yahoo.com/boston-mayor-likens-nyc-vaccination-184527878.html
>
> What behavioral changes do you think would ensue among bums,
> junkies and winos when the City offers $100 to accept the
> shot? Bingo! You win, even though it was obvious from the
> start:
>
> https://iotwreport.com/video-reveals-disadvantaged-populations-taking-excessive-vaccines-for-tax-funded-gift-card-incentive/
>
> * If you're freshly shaven, alcohol wiped, someone else
> properly fits an N95 mask for you and you change it every
> hour or two, the mask is doing something. For an aerosol
> virus, almost all others do not.
>
> https://cdn.notonthehighstreet.com/fs/d0/73/a8f6-4f01-4867-bffe-4ad65b7f9a19/original_washable-face-mask-soft-liberty-print-cotton.jpg
>

On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 5:32:03 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 2:01:22 PM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 3:17:44 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 11:37:18 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 2:34:06 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> > > > > On 1/19/2022 3:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > > > Short version: VAERS data is crowd sourced and not reliable. Don't
> > > > > > use it to establish either Covid-19 causes or effects.
> > > > >
> > > > > OMG, please don't suggest that Tom use reliable data, he'd have to stop
> > > > > posting.
> > > > >
> > > > > We'd be done with Covid already if not for so many right-wing lunatics
> > > > > buying into all the conspiracy theories, citing fake data, promoting
> > > > > fake cures and opposing masks. Even Trump has been urging people to get
> > > > > vaccinated, probably realizing that if he wants to run again he needs
> > > > > live people to vote for him.
> > > > >
> > > > > No one should be forced to get vaccinated, but there needs to be
> > > > > consequences for those that decide to "own the libs" by contributing to
> > > > > the spread of Covid by not getting vaccinated. They can stay in their
> > > > > own homes and cars, but unvaccinated individuals should not be allowed
> > > > > to be in publicly accessible indoor locations like stores, offices,
> > > > > restaurants, hotels, hospitals, airports and airplanes, cruise ships,
> > > > > public transportation, etc. until the pandemic is completely over.. They
> > > > > also should be paying more for health insurance than regular people.
> > > > "no shirt
> > > > no shoes
> > > > no vax
> > > > no service"
> > >
> > > Perhaps it should be no brains, not sense, no service - this identifies you perfectly. Tell me you queer - why is it that everything I've said, the CDC is now repeating almost word for word?
> > No, they haven't, in fact the opposite is true, you've been shown repeatedly that they continue to refute every claim you've made.
> >
> > > Masks do not work
> >
> > There is no report from the CDC stating that. The report you like to trot out isn't from the CDC, you brain-dead twit, it's from a chinese college student. There is no information from the CDC stating masks don't work.
> >
> > > Social distancing has no effect on an airborne virus
> >
> > There is no report from the CDC stating that.
> > > rather than 814,000 people killed at the very most it was 7,031 at the last count.
> > There is no report from the CDC stating that. You don't have the capacity to understand the actual "excess deaths" data.
> > > Vaccines have killed and permanently injured more people than they have saved from anything.
> > Blatant lies spurted at you from the Qanon phallus that you eagerly lap up.
> > > There hasn't been a recorded case of anyone under 21 dying from covid regardless of their health condition
> > Blatant lie. The CDC data states 32% had no underlying conditions
> > https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjL6pb79Nz1AhUpkIkEHZwFCDEQFnoECBUQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fvaccines%2Facip%2Fmeetings%2Fdownloads%2Fslides-2021-11-2-3%2F03-COVID-Jefferson-508.pdf&usg=AOvVaw020kr0pSRNZHxExt1Fh5m6
> > > and they have not shown that children of school age can transmit the illness.
> > Blatant lie, it's well documented,
> > "a November 2021 study conducted by Harvard researchers again confirmed that children carry live virus capable of infecting others."
> > https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-outbreak-and-kids
> > > The average age of death of the few that have died from covid-19 is 82 with up to 8 comorbidities while in the USA, the average age of death is 76.
> > It doesn't help you to make shit up, sparky.
> > > Tell me you rotting bag of flesh - what do you suppose when this all finally sinks in and
> > > you continue to shoot your mouth off like that grand expert you believe yourself to be,
> > > people are going to do to you?
> > Considering idiots like you are the only ones who buy into your bullshit, I really couldn't give a flying fuck what you people think - or what you think they are "going to do to me" - they'll probably crawl back into the little shitholes they crawled out of.
> > >
> > > Do you want to change over to man-made climate change where you're equally stupid?
> > > Just a couple of days ago they were talking about the San Francisco Sea Wall that they
> > > built 100 years ago so that they could place landfill and build the present Downtown
> > > area. Seems as how the tide markers are the same one's placed then and haven't moved.
> > So? What does the fact that they haven't moved a tide marker mean? I think it's more likely you read an article saying that they haven't moved them in 100 years, and they are almost constantly below water now, but you're such a deceitful shitbag you're deliberately leaving out that information.
> > > After stupid mother's like you told us that the Marquesan Islands would be drowned by 2002.
> > > Instead they are now 3 feet higher out of the water than that prediction from another of your most beloved experts - Al Gore.
> > 1) No one ever said the Marquesan Islands would be under water
> > 2) I'd ask you for a link explaining the alleged 3 foot rise, but I know you'll come you'll come up short like usual.
> > > Tell me what, have you ever gotten one thing right?
> > Yes, everytime I have any interaction with you, I'm always right, and you're always wrong (except for claiming jobst published your address).
> > > When almost the entirety of the US and Europe were locked in a deep freeze why were your "experts" at NOAA saying that this was the hottest year forever
> > Because it _was_ the hottest year on record, and you _still_ don't understand the difference between weather and climate.
> > > and that the ice cover of the arctic was melting when in actuality the ice cover is more than in 2006?
> > BZZZZT. Wrong again:"By early January 2022, Arctic sea ice extent, while well below average, was within the lowest decile of recorded extents of the 1981 to 2010 reference period."
> > https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
> > > If there is anything in your life that you could get right why don't you at least try and make it known.
> > well, In addition to everything above, there's also the fact that PWM is not used to test cables, "light line" is a term that only exists in your deluded mind, the north won most of the civil war battels before the emancipation proclamation including the most important ones, Barack Obama did _not_ inherit a good economy, my oh my, I could go on and on.
> > > Maybe you and Scharf - the failed politician who even the far left citizens of Los Gatos can't stand
> > > for his continuous string of lies and bullshit - and have a lovechild.. You two were made for each other,
> > > a failed politician and and a failed technician
> > Hmmm....still gainfully employed engineer versus a technical hack who could never keep a jon for a year....
> > shut the fuck up tommy
>
> I have only explained dozens of times how to get the information from the CDC showing "Total number
> above average by cause" which at the latest update shows 7,031, but that is beyond your ability to comprehend.

No, sparky, you showed how to ignore the the data called "excess deaths from covid 19" and instead look at "excess deaths from other respiratory diseases". You know for a fact that the CDC broke covid deaths out from "other causes", yet you continue to insist covid is included in 'other' you deceitful shit bag. You'll be the one crawling back into your little shithole with all the others you think will 'do something to me'.

> I suppose that UC Bolder should remove your so-called degree which I don't believe for one second.

that's fine, because I never said I had a degree from UC boulder you stupid fuck. Chalk another one up for Drop-out Tommy's reading comprehension.

shut the fuck up tommy

On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 11:56:25 PM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > On 1/31/2022 7:44 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>> On 1/31/2022 1:34 PM, sms wrote:
> >>>> On 1/19/2022 3:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> <snip>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Short version: VAERS data is crowd sourced and not
> >>>>> reliable. Don't
> >>>>> use it to establish either Covid-19 causes or effects.
> >>>>
> >>>> OMG, please don't suggest that Tom use reliable data, he'd
> >>>> have to stop posting.
> >>>>
> >>>> We'd be done with Covid already if not for so many
> >>>> right-wing lunatics buying into all the conspiracy theories,
> >>>> citing fake data, promoting fake cures and opposing masks.
> >>>> Even Trump has been urging people to get vaccinated,
> >>>> probably realizing that if he wants to run again he needs
> >>>> live people to vote for him.
> >>>>
> >>>> No one should be forced to get vaccinated, but there needs
> >>>> to be consequences for those that decide to "own the libs"
> >>>> by contributing to the spread of Covid by not getting
> >>>> vaccinated. They can stay in their own homes and cars, but
> >>>> unvaccinated individuals should not be allowed to be in
> >>>> publicly accessible indoor locations like stores, offices,
> >>>> restaurants, hotels, hospitals, airports and airplanes,
> >>>> cruise ships, public transportation, etc. until the pandemic
> >>>> is completely over. They also should be paying more for
> >>>> health insurance than regular people.
> >>>
> >>> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent
> >>> repeated contracting or spread. It does reduce mortality,
> >>> which is a good thing. That effect is temporary. And, oh by
> >>> the way, side effects are significant in some groups:
> >>>
> >>> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
> >>>
> >>> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
> >>>
> >>
> >> How do you define vaccine?
> >>
> >
> > Until just now, 'vaccine' meant a preventative to infection
> > and transmission. mRNA shots are merely a shibboleth. Like
> > 99% of masks*, the mRNA shot won't keep you from being
> > infected nor from spreading the virus to others.
> Maybe Madison was the control group. Vaccines (including the mRNA shots)
> seem to be working just fine around here.

here as well

On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 5:06:30 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 1:14:08 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:38:25 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> Listen you little boot licking cripple

Oh look, now tommy is mocking someone with a disability. Kind of ironic for someone who admits to impotence....

> you know nothing about anything so why do you insist on making comments pretending that you do know something?
> I spent 50 years in science with most of them in medical and laboratory research and development.

No, maybe half that. The other have was spent working on telephone systems - or, you're now admitting to more lies on your resume. Besides that, you were a technician with no input into actual R&D - and obviously not a very good technician at that since you couldn't keep a job more than a year.

> Not only have I been right but Dr. Scott Atlas, who quit the Presidents advisory panel because
> the only one that had a say was Fauci just gave an hour and 50 minute speech to Hillsdale
> College repeating most of what I have said.

And he was resoundingly criticized to the point that the faculty of Stanford published the following:
https://news.stanford.edu/2020/11/20/faculty-senate-condemns-actions-hoover-fellow-scott-atlas/

"A resolution, introduced by members of the Faculty Senate Steering Committee and approved by 85 percent of the senate membership, specified six actions that Atlas has taken that “promote a view of COVID-19 that contradicts medical science.”

> This is TWO years into this phony pandemic and despite you being wrong at every turn you're still striving to continue your lie in the face of ever single fact being against you.

The only person being continually caught in lies and deceit here is you - until andre pops in and plugs a nickle up your ass so you dance around a bit more.

> Let's see how accurate your prediction of no rain in the bay are in February is. I'm still chuckling how you tried to find my name on the
> NASA employees list when I worked for a subcontractor at the time and said so. You are really slow and getting worse.

And you had no input into that project at all. You found out that your company had a NASA contract so you lied on your resume and claimed you worked on the project.

>
> By the way why didn't you refer to the actual CDC page about PCR instead of "fact check"

Because it was shown to you before, and you dismissed it as a lie.
https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/08-02-2021-lab-alert-Clarifications_about_Retirement_CDC_2019_Novel_Coronavirus_1.html
"Is CDC retiring the CDC 2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel because it has produced inaccurate results?
No. There are no performance concerns with this test. The CDC 2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel is a highly accurate test. It has been used to successfully detect SARS-CoV-2 since February 2020."

> who couldn't check a fact if it was whether or not they have a venereal disease? https://www.heritage.org/public-opinion/commentary/the-facts-about-fact-checkers

lol...an op ed piece from the heritage foundation....no bias there at all.

>
> You are no better than flunky and slow johnny that have nothing but google and no personal knowledge at all

Oh, we have plenty of personal knowledge sparky, but presenting source information is how intelligent and rational people frame ideas, instead of clowns like you who pull shit out of their ass and fling it at the keyboard, then whine how you're being bullied when proven wrong. This is why you couldn't finish high school, were driven out of the the service, and could never hold a job - you have no will or capacity to learn.

> So you surf through that mass of misinformation until you find absolutely anything that will support your wilted brain.

That's funny coming from mr. "35 soccer players dropped dead on the playing field from the covid vaccine."

shut the fuck up tommy

On 1/31/2022 10:41 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:11:58 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/31/2022 7:44 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> On 1/31/2022 1:34 PM, sms wrote:
>>>>> On 1/19/2022 3:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Short version: VAERS data is crowd sourced and not
>>>>>> reliable. Don't
>>>>>> use it to establish either Covid-19 causes or effects.
>>>>>
>>>>> OMG, please don't suggest that Tom use reliable data, he'd
>>>>> have to stop posting.
>>>>>
>>>>> We'd be done with Covid already if not for so many
>>>>> right-wing lunatics buying into all the conspiracy theories,
>>>>> citing fake data, promoting fake cures and opposing masks.
>>>>> Even Trump has been urging people to get vaccinated,
>>>>> probably realizing that if he wants to run again he needs
>>>>> live people to vote for him.
>>>>>
>>>>> No one should be forced to get vaccinated, but there needs
>>>>> to be consequences for those that decide to "own the libs"
>>>>> by contributing to the spread of Covid by not getting
>>>>> vaccinated. They can stay in their own homes and cars, but
>>>>> unvaccinated individuals should not be allowed to be in
>>>>> publicly accessible indoor locations like stores, offices,
>>>>> restaurants, hotels, hospitals, airports and airplanes,
>>>>> cruise ships, public transportation, etc. until the pandemic
>>>>> is completely over. They also should be paying more for
>>>>> health insurance than regular people.
>>>>
>>>> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent
>>>> repeated contracting or spread. It does reduce mortality,
>>>> which is a good thing. That effect is temporary. And, oh by
>>>> the way, side effects are significant in some groups:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
>>>>
>>>> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
>>>>
>>>
>>> How do you define vaccine?
>>>
>>
>> Until just now, 'vaccine' meant a preventative to infection
>> and transmission. mRNA shots are merely a shibboleth. Like
>> 99% of masks*, the mRNA shot won't keep you from being
>> infected nor from spreading the virus to others.
>>
>> https://news.yahoo.com/boston-mayor-likens-nyc-vaccination-184527878.html
>>
>> What behavioral changes do you think would ensue among bums,
>> junkies and winos when the City offers $100 to accept the
>> shot? Bingo! You win, even though it was obvious from the
>> start:
>>
>> https://iotwreport.com/video-reveals-disadvantaged-populations-taking-excessive-vaccines-for-tax-funded-gift-card-incentive/
>>
>> * If you're freshly shaven, alcohol wiped, someone else
>> properly fits an N95 mask for you and you change it every
>> hour or two, the mask is doing something. For an aerosol
>> virus, almost all others do not.
>>
>> https://cdn.notonthehighstreet.com/fs/d0/73/a8f6-4f01-4867-bffe-4ad65b7f9a19/original_washable-face-mask-soft-liberty-print-cotton.jpg
>
> From what I read the State of Illinois currently, apparently legally,
> requires quite a number of immunizations prior to allowing children to
> enter school
> https://tinyurl.com/79pt2xw9
> some 9 different diseases and (if I counted correctly) some 16
> jabs" some of which are given to children less then 1 years old.
>
> As for mRNA shots? Apparently they proved rather effective during the
> 2014-16 outbreak of Ebola Zaire as I read that
>
> "Clinical efficacy of the vaccine was supported by a randomized
> cluster (ring) vaccination study during the 2014–2016 outbreak in
> Guinea. In this study, 3,775 people in close contact with diagnosed
> EVD cases (contacts) and their close contacts (contacts of contacts)
> received immediate vaccination. No one who was vaccinated immediately
> developed EVD 10 or more days after vaccination."
> https://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/clinicians/vaccine/index.html
>

Many are effective (polio, smallpox, DPT, etc), some less so
(seasonal influenza). Writes Dr Joseph Wang (Canadian
researcher for Sanofi who was among the team who developed
their SARS vaccine) 25 January, 2022: [this is an excerpt]

"A University of Cape Town study showed that long-lasting T
cell response, induced either by vaccination or natural
infection, cross-recognizes Omicron. The authors concluded
that well-preserved T cell immunity to Omicron is likely to
contribute to protection from severe COVID-19 caused by
other variants.

It turns out that not all T-cell responses are the same
however. The Cape Town study didn't distinguish the types of
T cell responses a natural infection induces versus that of
vaccination. We now know that although vaccinations with the
S protein based vaccines stimulate T cell responses, the
responses don't induce protection. That is why, even though
the world had a high vaccination rate in November, the
Omicron wave still arrived.

On January 10, the scientific journal Nature published a
peer-reviewed article titled. 'Cross reactive memory T cells
associate with protection against SARS-COV-2 infection in
COVID-19 contacts.' Submitted to Nature by Imperial College
London scientists five months ago, the article looked at T
cell epitopes (very small protein fragments) from different
SARS-COV-2 proteins (S, N, E and ORF1) in terms of their
cross reactivity to those of other species of human
coronavirus OC-43 and HKU1, which cause the common cold.

They found a pool of T cell epitopes from S, N, ORF1
proteins that were cross reactive between SARS-COV-2 and
human coronavirus (human COV). However, the specific T cell
response that induces protection is from the epitopes of the
N and ORF1 proteins, not the S protein (spike protein). They
then concluded that in the second generation of vaccines
developed against COVID-19, non-spike proteins should be
included."

Similar analyses have been published for almost a year now
ever since it was noted that the mRNA shots do not prevent
subsequent infection or transmission. The 'why' of it is
better understood of late. Eventually a second generation
jab, actually effective, will be developed. We are not there
yet. I've read all and sundry for two years; it's all very
available and very public. Nothing about this should not be
surprising to anyone now.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/31/2022 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent repeated
> contracting or spread.

That's a bad attempt at a semantic defense. Nothing in the definition of
"vaccine" demands what you claim.

> It does reduce mortality, which is a good thing.
> That effect is temporary. And, oh by the way, side effects are
> significant in some groups:
>
> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
>
>
> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/

I tend to think in terms of advantages vs. disadvantages, benefits vs.
detriments.

The disadvantages you allude to are extremely rare. (surely you can work
out the number of incidents per million?) The benefits are vastly greater.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/31/2022 9:11 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Until just now, 'vaccine' meant a preventative to infection and
> transmission. mRNA shots are merely a shibboleth. Like 99% of masks*,
> the mRNA shot won't keep you from being infected nor from spreading the
> virus to others.

You seem to be using a very unusual definition of "vaccine." Is that
original, or sourced from Fox News?

AFAIK there has never been such a thing as a 100% perfect vaccine.
Probably the easiest illustration is the annual flu vaccine. Some years
are better than others, but even if it's imperfect, it reduces the
severity of the disease. But I'm not aware of anyone saying "Then it's
not a vaccine."

Well, not yet anyway. If influenza gets tied to politics instead of
medical science, such claims wouldn't surprise me.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/1/2022 11:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/31/2022 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent
>> repeated contracting or spread.
>
> That's a bad attempt at a semantic defense. Nothing in the
> definition of "vaccine" demands what you claim.
>
>> It does reduce mortality, which is a good thing. That
>> effect is temporary. And, oh by the way, side effects are
>> significant in some groups:
>>
>> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
>>
>>
>> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
>
>
> I tend to think in terms of advantages vs. disadvantages,
> benefits vs. detriments.
>
> The disadvantages you allude to are extremely rare. (surely
> you can work out the number of incidents per million?) The
> benefits are vastly greater.
>

Deleterious side effects are rare depending on subsets and
beneficent effects depend on subsets as well.

For a guy who's 85 and obese, makes sense. For a fit 25 year
old not so much. Other factors enter as well.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/1/2022 11:32 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/31/2022 9:11 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> Until just now, 'vaccine' meant a preventative to
>> infection and transmission. mRNA shots are merely a
>> shibboleth. Like 99% of masks*, the mRNA shot won't keep
>> you from being infected nor from spreading the virus to
>> others.
>
> You seem to be using a very unusual definition of "vaccine."
> Is that original, or sourced from Fox News?
>
> AFAIK there has never been such a thing as a 100% perfect
> vaccine. Probably the easiest illustration is the annual flu
> vaccine. Some years are better than others, but even if it's
> imperfect, it reduces the severity of the disease. But I'm
> not aware of anyone saying "Then it's not a vaccine."
>
> Well, not yet anyway. If influenza gets tied to politics
> instead of medical science, such claims wouldn't surprise me.
>

Right. I'm surprised that people are surprised when I note
that there are 1 to 2 deaths per million for children with
measles vaccine. Every year, very predictable.

Then again I knew a boy who suffered extended high fevers
with measles and was brain damaged. Others were deafened.
I'm not at all opposed to vaccines in general.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 9:18:12 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/31/2022 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >
> > The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent repeated
> > contracting or spread.
> That's a bad attempt at a semantic defense. Nothing in the definition of
> "vaccine" demands what you claim.
> > It does reduce mortality, which is a good thing.
> > That effect is temporary. And, oh by the way, side effects are
> > significant in some groups:
> >
> > https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
> >
> >
> > https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
> I tend to think in terms of advantages vs. disadvantages, benefits vs.
> detriments.
>
> The disadvantages you allude to are extremely rare. (surely you can work
> out the number of incidents per million?) The benefits are vastly greater..

Frank, why do you insist on making false claims like some sort of sock puppet operated by Obama? The claim IS that the vaccines are safe and effective.. 97% effective within 26 days of the second shot. The fact are that it appears to be effective with only 22% of the population with those who have had their full vaccinations not only catching the illness but passing it on. If covid-19 were actually a dangerous disease, the true number of deaths in the US would be incredible.

The vaccines themselves are dangerous causing blood clots and both deaths and permanent health injuries. This latter I suppose is why they want to vaccinate 4 and under now. There hasn't been a documented case of anyone under 21 dying from covid-19 despite their health conditions so why are they vaccinating children?

Half of the country is anti-symptomatic IF they catch the disease 18 years ago we had the SARS-Cov-1 virus pandemic and most people in the entire world are STILL largely immune to the disease. The Omicron variant is just like a cold only a bit more violent and lasting for only 4 days.

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 10:24:22 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/1/2022 11:32 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 1/31/2022 9:11 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >> Until just now, 'vaccine' meant a preventative to
> >> infection and transmission. mRNA shots are merely a
> >> shibboleth. Like 99% of masks*, the mRNA shot won't keep
> >> you from being infected nor from spreading the virus to
> >> others.
> >
> > You seem to be using a very unusual definition of "vaccine."
> > Is that original, or sourced from Fox News?
> >
> > AFAIK there has never been such a thing as a 100% perfect
> > vaccine. Probably the easiest illustration is the annual flu
> > vaccine. Some years are better than others, but even if it's
> > imperfect, it reduces the severity of the disease. But I'm
> > not aware of anyone saying "Then it's not a vaccine."
> >
> > Well, not yet anyway. If influenza gets tied to politics
> > instead of medical science, such claims wouldn't surprise me.
> >
> Right. I'm surprised that people are surprised when I note
> that there are 1 to 2 deaths per million for children with
> measles vaccine. Every year, very predictable.
>
> Then again I knew a boy who suffered extended high fevers
> with measles and was brain damaged. Others were deafened.
> I'm not at all opposed to vaccines in general.

Although the percentages of people who had very strong negative reactions to the covid-19 vaccine is pretty low, with half of the country vaccinated the number of deaths are surprisingly high. But the left believes that they should have the right to force even little children that do not suffer any serious effects from covid-19 to take a measurably dangerous vaccine. The VAERS number is 12,000 but like everything from the left that is distorted all to hell. If you get a blood clot from the vaccine and die before 26 days after the vaccination they are claiming that you died from covid-19 even though the autopsy says it was blood clotting. And the injuries to the circulatory system from clotting can be and usually are permanent.

It is my position that every single decision on everything has been in favor of the pharmaceutical companies from protecting them entirely against any possible harm from these vaccines to fighting any possible treatments that might prove safe and effective making vaccines unnecessary. This last is in itself a crime.

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 4:09:02 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 14:06:28 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 1:14:08 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:38:25 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Here's more of Jeff's unreliable VAERS data. https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html
> >> VAERS is not mentioned in the above CDC report from July 21, 2021.
> >> >Oh, wait, didn't I say that since I designed and programmed the PCR automation I knew that you couldn't identify corona viruses using PCR and especially using a 40 cycle reproduction rate that could find a corona virus in drinking water.
> >> Has medical research and technology stopped and hasn't progressed
> >> since since you were involved in PCR automation? Good to know.
> >>
> >> "Fact check: CDC is withdrawing its PCR COVID-19 test, but not because
> >> it confuses viruses"
> >> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/12/30/fact-check-cdcs-pcr-test-withdrawn-after-dec-31/9053100002/>
> >>
> >> "Fact Check-The CDC did not say PCR tests are incapable of detecting
> >> COVID-19"
> >> <https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-cdc-testingguidance/fact-check-the-cdc-did-not-say-pcr-tests-are-incapable-of-detecting-covid-19-idUSL1N2TG0QW>
> >>
> >> "Viral Posts Misrepresent CDC Announcement on COVID-19 PCR Test"
> >> <https://www.factcheck.org/2021/07/scicheck-viral-posts-misrepresent-cdc-announcement-on-covid-19-pcr-test/>
> >> "But the CDC did not say it was no longer supporting the use of PCR
> >> tests in general, many of which have been authorized by the FDA - or
> >> that its original PCR test for SARS-CoV-2 can’t tell the difference
> >> between coronavirus and influenza - as viral posts spreading online
> >> falsely claim."
>
> >Listen you little boot licking cripple
> I'm hardly a cripple and get around just fine. There was a problem a
> few years ago which might have been fatal, but that's been resolved.
> Unfortunately, riding a bicycle has become difficult for me and a
> little risky. So, I don't ride any more.
> > - you know nothing about anything so why do you insist on making comments pretending that you do know something?
> It might be helpful if you write something worth reading.
> >I spent 50 years in science with most of them in medical and laboratory research and development.
> You lie. According to your LinkedIn resume, you spent 30 years
> programming and writing firmware (1984 to 2012).
> >Let's see how accurate your prediction of no rain in the bay are in February is.
> How soon you forget. You predicted that it would rain by the start of
> February, or something like that. I posted links to Windy.com and
> Accuweather.com showing the 10 day and 30 day forecasts, which showed
> a possibility of rain in February. Blaming me for their success or
> failure to forecast rain seems a bit of a stretch.
>
> 10 day rain forecast:
> <https://www.windy.com/-Rain-accumulation-rainAccu?rainAccu,next10d,34.778,-123.376,5>
>
> 30 day forecast:
> <https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/san-leandro/94577/february-weather/337231>
>
> Rain maybe on Feb 25 and 26. Predicting 2+ weeks ahead is mostly
> based on history from previous years and not very accurate.
> >I'm still chuckling how you tried to find my name on the NASA employees list when I worked for a subcontractor at the time and said so. You are really slow and getting worse.
> I did try to find your name on a NASA employees list but gave up when
> I discovered that NASA had outsourced it's former employee
> information:
> "NASA Removes Public Access To Its Online Employee Directory (Update)"
> <http://nasawatch.com/archives/2020/11/nasa-removes-pu.html>
> Once I determined that your worked for a sub-contractor and not for
> NASA, I was not going to confirm your NASA employment in this manner.
> The sub-contractor you mentioned was Etec Labs, possibly in Pittsburg
> CA, which does not appear on your online resume.
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>
> Note that there's very little room in your timeline for additional
> employers.
> >By the way why didn't you refer to the actual CDC page about PCR instead of "fact check" who couldn't check a fact if it was whether or not they have a venereal disease? https://www.heritage.org/public-opinion/commentary/the-facts-about-fact-checkers
> Maybe because that's not a CDC web page? Nice "conservative" source
> of information. Since you didn't bother reading the half dozen
> assorted fact check articles various people have posted, perhaps you
> prefer my personalized corrections. The CDC did NOT withdraw use of
> all COVID-19 PCR tests. It withdrew one that was operating under a
> temporary authorization and replaced it with newer and better PCR
> tests.
>
> [ 60 minutes wasted ]

If riding is dangerous for you now there's no shame in not riding. But commenting authoritatively in the bicycles.tech group should be. But that doesn't seem to stop you. Etec had an office and still does as far as I know at Lawrence Livermore Laboratories. If you don't know this why are you commenting on it? Do you like to show your own ignorance that much? And precisely why should I have any desire to know every detail possible about a company aside from whether their paychecks bounce or not?

Please do not tell me about a science you know nothing about. Dr. Kary Mullis has SAID that it doesn't operate the way you seem to think it does. He has recordings all around the net. Go find them and learn something. I'm getting very tired of your ignorance.

On 2/1/2022 1:19 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/1/2022 11:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/31/2022 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent
>>> repeated contracting or spread.
>>
>> That's a bad attempt at a semantic defense. Nothing in the
>> definition of "vaccine" demands what you claim.
>>
>>> It does reduce mortality, which is a good thing. That
>>> effect is temporary. And, oh by the way, side effects are
>>> significant in some groups:
>>>
>>> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
>>>
>>
>>
>> I tend to think in terms of advantages vs. disadvantages,
>> benefits vs. detriments.
>>
>> The disadvantages you allude to are extremely rare. (surely
>> you can work out the number of incidents per million?) The
>> benefits are vastly greater.
>>
>
> Deleterious side effects are rare depending on subsets and beneficent
> effects depend on subsets as well.
>
> For a guy who's 85 and obese, makes sense. For a fit 25 year old not so
> much. Other factors enter as well.

One can always pixellate the data until one finds a dot that reinforces
one's viewpoint, however tiny that dot.

But this popped up today about the risk you raised:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/falsehood-athletes-dying-covid-vaccines-105226617.html

"Medical research shows the risk of getting myocarditis from the
coronavirus itself is about 100 times higher than getting it from a
vaccine."

They say the rumor was generated by a right-wing Austrian group, then
picked up by the right-wing American press. (Right wing Austrians used
to have a bad reputation.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 12:18:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/31/2022 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent repeated
>> contracting or spread.
>
>That's a bad attempt at a semantic defense. Nothing in the definition of
>"vaccine" demands what you claim.
>
>> It does reduce mortality, which is a good thing.
>> That effect is temporary. And, oh by the way, side effects are
>> significant in some groups:
>>
>> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
>>
>>
>> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
>
>I tend to think in terms of advantages vs. disadvantages, benefits vs.
>detriments.
>
>The disadvantages you allude to are extremely rare. (surely you can work
>out the number of incidents per million?) The benefits are vastly greater.

Our grand daughter recently visited. When asked my wife what the Grand
Daughter was doing "up here" my wife told me that she had to come "up
here" to get shot #1 in the vaccination series as she wanted stop with
the on line school thing and to go back to a real school and in order
to do that she must show proof that she had the three shots and they
weren't giving "shot #1" in Bangkok any more as, apparently just about
everyone has had that shot.

And so far we haven't heard of a single death due to the vaccine. I'm
not saying that there haven't been but rather then no one we know has
heard of one. Our neighbor is a retired Cop, my wife's younger sister
owns a wholesale food shop in the center of town, a younger brother is
the manufactured of a very large percentage of the noodles sold in
N.E, Thailand, and another brother is a wholesale suppler cooking oil
to this part of the country. Sufficient contact "with the multitudes"
that I'm fairly sure that we would have heard about it if people were
dropping like flies.

So, additionally I checked with the government figures on the net.
Thailand (70,077,015) has about twice the population of California
(39,512,223) so it makes a fairly easy way to compare the two places,
To be technical Thailand has some 1.77 times the population of
California but California has registered some 80,366 deaths due to the
virus while Thailand has registered only 22,188. So Thailand with
nearly twice the population has only slightly over 1/3rd the deaths.
Which ought to tell someone something.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2/1/2022 3:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Frank, why do you insist on making false claims like some sort of sock puppet operated by Obama? The claim IS that the vaccines are safe and effective. 97% effective within 26 days of the second shot. The fact are that it appears to be effective with only 22% of the population with those who have had their full vaccinations not only catching the illness but passing it on. If covid-19 were actually a dangerous disease, the true number of deaths in the US would be incredible.

Well over 880,000 deaths is astonishing.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1101932/coronavirus-covid19-cases-and-deaths-number-us-americans/

But I'm not surprised you find it incredible. It's hard for people to
give credence to information that proves their own world view is bonkers.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 12:19:30 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/1/2022 11:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/31/2022 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent
>>> repeated contracting or spread.
>>
>> That's a bad attempt at a semantic defense. Nothing in the
>> definition of "vaccine" demands what you claim.
>>
>>> It does reduce mortality, which is a good thing. That
>>> effect is temporary. And, oh by the way, side effects are
>>> significant in some groups:
>>>
>>> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
>>>
>>>
>>> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
>>
>>
>> I tend to think in terms of advantages vs. disadvantages,
>> benefits vs. detriments.
>>
>> The disadvantages you allude to are extremely rare. (surely
>> you can work out the number of incidents per million?) The
>> benefits are vastly greater.
>>
>
>Deleterious side effects are rare depending on subsets and
>beneficent effects depend on subsets as well.
>
>For a guy who's 85 and obese, makes sense. For a fit 25 year
>old not so much. Other factors enter as well.

I suggest that the determining factor might better be "Does it do any
harm"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2/1/2022 1:23 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/1/2022 11:32 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/31/2022 9:11 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> Until just now, 'vaccine' meant a preventative to
>>> infection and transmission. mRNA shots are merely a
>>> shibboleth. Like 99% of masks*, the mRNA shot won't keep
>>> you from being infected nor from spreading the virus to
>>> others.
>>
>> You seem to be using a very unusual definition of "vaccine."
>> Is that original, or sourced from Fox News?
>>
>> AFAIK there has never been such a thing as a 100% perfect
>> vaccine. Probably the easiest illustration is the annual flu
>> vaccine. Some years are better than others, but even if it's
>> imperfect, it reduces the severity of the disease. But I'm
>> not aware of anyone saying "Then it's not a vaccine."
>>
>> Well, not yet anyway. If influenza gets tied to politics
>> instead of medical science, such claims wouldn't surprise me.
>>
>
> Right.  I'm surprised that people are surprised when I note that there
> are 1 to 2 deaths per million for children with measles vaccine. Every
> year, very predictable.

And in general, people are very hard at processing infinitesmal
probabilities of infinitely bad outcomes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/1/2022 7:28 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 12:19:30 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2/1/2022 11:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/31/2022 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The mRNA shot is not a vaccine, in that it doesn't prevent
>>>> repeated contracting or spread.
>>>
>>> That's a bad attempt at a semantic defense. Nothing in the
>>> definition of "vaccine" demands what you claim.
>>>
>>>> It does reduce mortality, which is a good thing. That
>>>> effect is temporary. And, oh by the way, side effects are
>>>> significant in some groups:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.physiciansweekly.com/vaers-data-confirm-myocarditis-risk-after-mrna-vaccine/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/11/army-surgeon-says-military-ignored-her-warnings-over-covid-19-vaccine-injuries/
>>>
>>>
>>> I tend to think in terms of advantages vs. disadvantages,
>>> benefits vs. detriments.
>>>
>>> The disadvantages you allude to are extremely rare. (surely
>>> you can work out the number of incidents per million?) The
>>> benefits are vastly greater.
>>>
>>
>> Deleterious side effects are rare depending on subsets and
>> beneficent effects depend on subsets as well.
>>
>> For a guy who's 85 and obese, makes sense. For a fit 25 year
>> old not so much. Other factors enter as well.
>
> I suggest that the determining factor might better be "Does it do any
> harm"?

In practice, that doesn't work. Every medicine and medical procedure
causes some amount of harm to some subset of those being treated. The
data sheets we get with our prescription medications spell those out,
often in some detail.

I recall being concerned about one particular side effect of one
particular prescription my physician was prescribing. (He's a bit unique
in that he was a pharmacist before getting his medical degree, which
makes him more knowledgeable about pharmaceuticals than the typical
doctor.) Anyway, he was aware of the side effect but said "But look at
the percentages!" And indeed, the data showed the side effect that
worried me had roughly a one percent chance of occurring. I accepted the
prescription.

As I've said, I'm a big fan of normal curves, intelligently applied. "Do
no harm" would replace the normal curve with some sort of binary
"yes/no" test. That doesn't work in the real world.

--
- Frank Krygowski