On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 10:59:51 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 7:28:13 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:13:11 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >On 2/23/2022 10:02 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > >
> > ><snip>
> > >
> > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallejo,_California>
> > >> The first line says:
> > >> "Vallejo is a waterfront city in Solano County, California..."
> > >> <https://goo.gl/maps/bq4Dbrn83vm33ggE7>
> >
> > >What's so strange is that instead of Tom simply admitting an honest
> > >mistake, of not knowing which county the city of Vallejo, and the CSU
> > >Maritime Academy are located, he decides to double down and lie yet
> > >again. To what end? There's no debate as to which county Vallejo is in..
> > I've been pondering the same question. My best guess(tm) is that Tom
> > is looking for attention. It doesn't matter if his comments are right
> > or wrong as long as he gets his daily (hourly?) dose of attention from
> > readers. A correct answer, apology, or admission of error will
> > usually result in no replies. However, a wrong answer, insult, or
> > stupid comment, will attract far more attention. So, Tom tends to be
> > chronically wrong because it works best for his goal of attracting
> > attention to himself.
> > --
> > Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> > PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> > Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
> Assume that is the case what would a smart person do?

You are quite right Lou. Jeff doesn't ride a bicycle so what is he doing on this group? If he believes that all I'm doing is looking for attention why does his entire world revolve around giving it to me? He is sick and crippled. He was never much in the way of an engineer if what he says is true (which, judging from his other statements, is questionable) and the jealousy emitted from Frank and Jeff makes you wonder why they bother unless it is mental problems. I suppose I shouldn't bother with them but Jeff's idea that the 40 mile distance from Marin City which is the Marin County center to Vallejo, which is only 40 miles is some sort of important point he is making makes it pretty plain what is going on inside of his head.

I shouldn't but I'm really going to have to rub his nose into the fact that I just bought a Colnago C50, a Bontrager wheelset and as soon as I sell one of my other bikes I will buy a Campy groupset to put on it. He, in the meantime will be posting on a bicycles.tech group as if he had some sort of business here.

Lou Holtman <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 7:28:13 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:13:11 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2022 10:02 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallejo,_California>
>>>> The first line says:
>>>> "Vallejo is a waterfront city in Solano County, California..."
>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/bq4Dbrn83vm33ggE7>
>>
>>> What's so strange is that instead of Tom simply admitting an honest
>>> mistake, of not knowing which county the city of Vallejo, and the CSU
>>> Maritime Academy are located, he decides to double down and lie yet
>>> again. To what end? There's no debate as to which county Vallejo is in.
>> I've been pondering the same question. My best guess(tm) is that Tom
>> is looking for attention. It doesn't matter if his comments are right
>> or wrong as long as he gets his daily (hourly?) dose of attention from
>> readers. A correct answer, apology, or admission of error will
>> usually result in no replies. However, a wrong answer, insult, or
>> stupid comment, will attract far more attention. So, Tom tends to be
>> chronically wrong because it works best for his goal of attracting
>> attention to himself.
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> Assume that is the case what would a smart person do?
>
> Lou
>

+1

On 2/23/2022 1:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:13:11 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What's so strange is that instead of Tom simply admitting an honest
>> mistake, of not knowing which county the city of Vallejo, and the CSU
>> Maritime Academy are located, he decides to double down and lie yet
>> again. To what end? There's no debate as to which county Vallejo is in.
>
> I've been pondering the same question. My best guess(tm) is that Tom
> is looking for attention. It doesn't matter if his comments are right
> or wrong as long as he gets his daily (hourly?) dose of attention from
> readers. A correct answer, apology, or admission of error will
> usually result in no replies. However, a wrong answer, insult, or
> stupid comment, will attract far more attention. So, Tom tends to be
> chronically wrong because it works best for his goal of attracting
> attention to himself.

I'm no psychologist, but I don't think Tom's behavior is generated by a
simple desire for attention. For one thing, if that were the case he
would be doing what I've suggested: taking his arguments to a much
bigger audience.

I think this article is much closer to Tom's truth:
https://evolutioncounseling.com/combative-attitude-explained/
"It’s hard to empathize with the combative life attitude until we look
below the surface and see it’s a protective mechanism, meant to combat
the anxiety produced from a world perceived as hostile."

Tom has constantly raged against, well, almost everyone. He feels under
threat from immigrants, liberals, communists, Democrats, medical
professionals, black protesters, police and more. Despite his frequent
bragging, he has no feelings of security; so he mounts a continuous
aggressive defense.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:17:02 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:09:55 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/22/2022 3:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:13:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >> On 2/22/2022 11:56 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 8:45:53 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>> On 2/22/2022 11:24 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> What education have you had John?
> > >>>> :-) Another day of unintentional irony from the guy without even a high
> > >>>> school diploma!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> But congratulations on the GED certificate, Tom. At least you've got
> > >>>> that, right?
> > >>>
> > >>> Why does it slip your mind that I discovered that I did graduate?
> > >> Tom, people don't "discover" that they graduated high school. That's not
> > >> how that works. And a high school diploma disqualifies you from getting
> > >> a GED, which you've claimed you have.
> > >>> And that I have an additional education in navigation from a high ranked college in Marin county?
> > >> I do remember you bragging about that. As I recall, Jeff was unable to
> > >> find the existence of such a thing. But feel free to give us
> > >> documentation, for a change from storytelling and bragging!
> > >>> Or that I have a two year degree from Chabot College in Hayward?
> > >> Hmm. I think this may be new information, although I don't take notes on
> > >> your copious flights of fancy. What I recall about you and "college" is
> > >> your tale of attending part of a term and walking out because the
> > >> socialist instructors obviously didn't know as much as you did. But hey,
> > >> feel free to give us documentation! (Is that two year degree on your
> > >> resume? I don't remember.)
> > >>> Is that because that is the only way you can infer that I didn't attain heights in my career that you couldn't even dream of?
> > >> I never dreamed of having a long, long string of temporary jobs with
> > >> most lasting less than two years, so you've got me there! The places I
> > >> worked seemed to want to keep me. Even the big firm I used for a "back
> > >> to industry" sabbatical tried to talk me in returning to them for
> > >> engineering consulting work in the summers.
> > >>> That you're so penniless that you have to make claims on other people's money as all communists do?
> > >> Dude, I'm far, far from penniless. I could buy every bike in your
> > >> ever-churning stable on a moment's notice. I could buy your house, too,
> > >> but I wouldn't want to live in that hellhole.
> > >
> > > When I discovered that diploma I published all of the information about it. If Jeff couldn't find it he was a liar plain and simple.
> > Tom, you're making even less sense than usual. If you have a diploma,
> > produce the evidence now. There are ways of doing that.
> >
> > Pretending you "remember" having a diploma is not one of those ways,
> > especially given your "memory."
> I apparently put it in my records storage and I have to intentions of digging through years and years of records for your satisfaction of wasting my time. Where is YOUR diploma? Framed in glass sitting on your wall, the most important thing in your life?

My high school diploma, I have no idea where it is at. I looked for it a few years ago but had no idea even where to begin looking. I'll have to ask my Mom some day if she knows where she put it. But my college diplomas, yes I had them framed and they hang on the wall. I never thought of a high school diploma as being something to be proud of. We are not living in the 1800s when a high school diploma was a big accomplishment. The first boy in the family to achieve that monumental accomplishment!!!!! EVERYONE (except Tommy) has a high school diploma. Big whoop. But only 37.5% of USA has a college degree. Bigger whoop.

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:29:09 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:45:49 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > >On 2/22/2022 11:24 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>
> > >> What education have you had John?
> > >
> > >:-) Another day of unintentional irony from the guy without even a high
> > >school diploma!
> > >
> > >But congratulations on the GED certificate, Tom. At least you've got
> > >that, right?
> > But did he, really?
> >
> > For some years Tommy bragged about his failure to graduate from high
> > school and then you, Frank, mentioned the GED and suddenly Tommy
> > claimed that "Oh Yes! I had one of them too!
> According to Frank, a GED isn't a high school diploma.

It isn't Tommy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Educational_Development
"The General Educational Development (GED) tests are a group of four subject tests which, when passed, provide certification that the test taker has United States or Canadian high school-level academic skills. It is an alternative to the US high school diploma, HiSET, and TASC test. The GED Testing Service website currently does not refer to the test as anything but "GED".

The American Council on Education (ACE), in Washington, D.C. (U.S.), which owns the GED trademark, coined the initialism to identify "tests of general equivalency development" that measure proficiency in science, mathematics, social studies, reading, and writing. Passing the GED test gives those who do not complete high school, or who do not meet requirements for high school diploma, the opportunity to earn their high school equivalency credential, also called a high school equivalency development or general equivalency diploma."

Also according to Frank, the test given to people entering the service isn't an IQ test and yet they put me working on the bomb/nav system on a B52 and they put you asking a tow truck operator to tow your aircraft over to a parking space. They put you holding a log book for the crew to enter their complaints and for technicians to check off.
>
> And I also said that at my high school reunion I discovered that I did have a high school graduation anyway since I had more than enough credits to graduate when I joined the Air Force 3 months before normal graduation. But you and Frank continue to show your mass jealousy of successful people because you worked very hard to become nothing.

We know Tommy. You have claimed this many times before. But as Frank pointed out, you CANNOT sit for the GED tests if you have a high school diploma.. They check on those things. So do you have a high school diploma or a GED? One or the other Tommy.

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 10:00:29 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 6:03:38 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/22/2022 8:50 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:57:12 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 2/22/2022 6:50 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:38:59 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 2/22/2022 12:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > >>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 10:11:43 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 2/22/2022 1:21 AM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> <snip>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Yes, I was being unduly sarcastic but I do maintain that Nurses are
> > >>>>>>> not qualified to either diagnose nor proscribe treatment.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Depends on the type of nurse.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> In the U.S., an LVN or LPN (Licensed Vocational Nurse/Licensed Practical
> > >>>>>> Nurse) is probably not qualified to diagnose. An experienced RN is
> > >>>>>> probably qualified, but legally can't diagnose or proscribe treatment. A
> > >>>>>> NP (Nurse practitioner) is both qualified and allowed to diagnose and
> > >>>>>> proscribe treatment, and depending on the state, is allowed to write
> > >>>>>> prescriptions.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Diagnosis is not a problem. We now have online web sites and AI
> > >>>>> algorithms that can diagnose many common ailments. For example:
> > >>>>> <https://symptoms.webmd.com>
> > >>>>> <https://www.mayoclinic.org/symptom-checker/select-symptom/itt-20009075>
> > >>>>> More:
> > >>>>> <https://openmd.com/directory/symptoms>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Treatment is a different story. The medical establishment has a very
> > >>>>> effective monopoly on drugs and procedures, which is probably a good
> > >>>>> thing from the safety standpoint. There are databases of commonly
> > >>>>> prescribed drugs and treatments, but those are not easily
> > >>>>> understandable or accessible to the GUM (great unwashed masses). The
> > >>>>> Star Trek Tricorder is a probably a decade in the future. An open
> > >>>>> source medication replicator, maybe 20 years.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm as critical as anyone of our recently diminished Medical
> > >>>> Billing Industry (formerly medical services). That said,
> > >>>> diagnosis is a refined art requiring both great skill and
> > >>>> deep knowledge, ideally after thousands of iterations. MDs
> > >>>> who are good are very good (although that group is
> > >>>> retiring/quitting at dramatic rates). The news is filled
> > >>>> with idiots who (wrongly) self-diagnose from web pages.
> > >>>> Something to keep in mind- seek an informed opinion besides
> > >>>> your own.
> > >>>
> > >>> I believe I've posted about the chap I knew -Special Forces trained
> > >>> Medic - who described some of the testing that he went through before
> > >>> he graduated from Medic Training. One was to be presented a list of
> > >>> the patients complaints and then diagnose the most likely problem.
> > >>>
> > >>> Something along the line of, A bloke comes in and with a slight fever
> > >>> and a small cough, his right hip hurts and he had loose bowels
> > >>> yesterday.
> > >>>
> > >>> What is the most likely problem and what is the recommended treatment?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Try appendicitis, most commonly seen in military age young
> > >> men and notoriously difficult to diagnose. Not slighting
> > >> Navy Medical Corpsmen but there's a lot more to this.
> > >
> > >
> > > Nope. The bloke had "had drink taken" the previous evening and the
> > > fall that hurt the hip, headache and loose bowels was the result. The
> > > treatment was two APC pills and "come back tomorrow if you don't feel
> > > better" (:-)
> > >
> > My point was that medical diagnoses can be difficult at
> > times with high stakes.
> Medics are little more than nurses without the education. More than half of the standard treatments in hospitals are performed by nurses.

I doubt that. The treatments part. Not the medics being nurses. Or nurses in training. That makes sense. The military takes volunteers or picks people to be medics. Nurses on the battlefield and front line. Then trains them to perform this task. The military trains everyone for whatever task they assign to the person. My uncle was a medic in the Navy in the 1970s and became a RN nurse with a college degree afterwards. But as for treatments in hospitals, official doctors are involved. Maybe not too involved. Maybe the nurse writes up a report and preliminary diagnosis, and the doctor looks at it and looks at the patient and says OK. But a doctor is always involved. Not a nurse only.

> My just retired sister in law ran the entire diabetes treatments for Alameda County. She had other nurses below her that would connect each patient up to the blood treatment machines for the proper period of time.

Tommy, Tommy, Tommy. Why oh why do you write about things you do not know anything at all about? You have no idea what the diabetes treatment for patients with this disease is. Why write nonsense about it? I know this is one of your trademarks. Just like you wrote about navigation and Jeff and John I believe corrected you on a sextant and how to navigate. But making up stuff on how diabetes is treated? Blood treatment machines are not used to treat diabetes.

Diabetes is an endocrine disease. The endocrine gland called the pancreas does not work. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas create insulin.. Insulin is a hormone that binds with sugar in the bloodstream and allows it to be received by the cells in the body. When diabetes is diagnosed, these cells inside the pancreas are not working. Thus allowing sugar to build up in the blood stream. Now when a diabetic is first diagnosed, or whenever they have very poor control of their diabetes, DKA Diabetic Ketoacidosis may develop. A diabetes treatment place/doctor/clinic (as you sister-in-law ran) will receive the first diagnosed patient and put him/her on an IV.. This IV will have saline (water to dilute the blood) and insulin in it. Insulin is used to get the sugar out of the blood and into the cells. Water/saline is to dilute the blood and make it less acidic. When first diagnosed and with DKA, the diabetic is literally starving to death because the body cells are not able to get any sugar from the blood. They are starving.. The body tries to fix this problem by breaking down fats and this causes acids to go into the blood. I guess breaking down fat causes acid. This can be deadly.

Thus the IV to dilute the blood with saline and the insulin to get the sugar into the cells and cause the body to stop using fat as fake fuel and putting acid into the blood. This initial diagnosis and DKA would be the ONLY time a diabetic is hooked up to a "blood treatment machine" as you stated. But I don't think anyone except you would say an IV is a machine. Diabetics do not use machines that filter the blood like kidney dialysis or chemotherapy.

Again Tommy, stop talking about stuff you are completely clueless of. Now I know that means you would have absolutely nothing on earth to talk about. Because you seem to be clueless on everything under the sun. But don't make up nonsensical lies.

>
> Idiots like Russell and Slow Johnny think that a nurse is nothing more than a receptionist.

No Tommy. I have many nurses in my family. And have met many at clinics and hospitals. I have watched what they do. Receptionist was not one of their duties. HOWEVER, I do wonder if the receptionists at the numerous clinics I have been to do have nurses working the receptionist chair. Maybe the nurses in the clinic rotate between seeing patients and working the receptionist chair. And doing the other administrative tasks in the office. Like scheduling appointments and filling out forms on the computer. Anyone know people who work at a clinic and can answer this?

On 2/23/2022 1:07 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

> It isn't Tommy.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Educational_Development
> "The General Educational Development (GED) tests are a group of four subject tests which, when passed, provide certification that the test taker has United States or Canadian high school-level academic skills. It is an alternative to the US high school diploma, HiSET, and TASC test. The GED Testing Service website currently does not refer to the test as anything but "GED".

In California it's called a "California High School Equivalency
Certificate."

You can't receive it until age 18 (17 in some instances). Most of the
students in the schools in my area could probably pass that test after
completing middle school, but that's not allowable.

It really should not be labeled as an "alternative" to a high school
diploma.

With a GED you can attend community college then you could transfer to a
four year college to get a bachelor's degree, but you'd be unlikely to
gain admission directly to a four year accredited institution with a
GED. You could also attend a proprietary, unaccredited for-profit
college like "Trump University," even without a high school diploma or GED.

<snip>

> We know Tommy. You have claimed this many times before. But as Frank pointed out, you CANNOT sit for the GED tests if you have a high school diploma. They check on those things. So do you have a high school diploma or a GED? One or the other Tommy.

Frank is correct, but I think that it would not be difficult to sit for
the GED by lying about not having a high school diploma. AFAIK, there is
no national registry of every U.S. resident with a high school diploma.

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 2:34:16 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/23/2022 1:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:13:11 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> What's so strange is that instead of Tom simply admitting an honest
> >> mistake, of not knowing which county the city of Vallejo, and the CSU
> >> Maritime Academy are located, he decides to double down and lie yet
> >> again. To what end? There's no debate as to which county Vallejo is in..
> >
> > I've been pondering the same question. My best guess(tm) is that Tom
> > is looking for attention. It doesn't matter if his comments are right
> > or wrong as long as he gets his daily (hourly?) dose of attention from
> > readers. A correct answer, apology, or admission of error will
> > usually result in no replies. However, a wrong answer, insult, or
> > stupid comment, will attract far more attention. So, Tom tends to be
> > chronically wrong because it works best for his goal of attracting
> > attention to himself.
> I'm no psychologist, but I don't think Tom's behavior is generated by a
> simple desire for attention. For one thing, if that were the case he
> would be doing what I've suggested: taking his arguments to a much
> bigger audience.
>
> I think this article is much closer to Tom's truth:
> https://evolutioncounseling.com/combative-attitude-explained/
> "It’s hard to empathize with the combative life attitude until we look
> below the surface and see it’s a protective mechanism, meant to combat
> the anxiety produced from a world perceived as hostile."
>
> Tom has constantly raged against, well, almost everyone. He feels under
> threat from immigrants, liberals, communists, Democrats, medical
> professionals, black protesters, police and more. Despite his frequent
> bragging, he has no feelings of security; so he mounts a continuous
> aggressive defense.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Frank, you left out the Hispanic roofers across the street. They stole his bike out of his shed in the backyard. They watched him put it there one day, and it was gone the next day.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 08:03:34 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/22/2022 8:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:57:12 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/22/2022 6:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:38:59 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/22/2022 12:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 10:11:43 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 1:21 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, I was being unduly sarcastic but I do maintain that Nurses are
>>>>>>>> not qualified to either diagnose nor proscribe treatment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Depends on the type of nurse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the U.S., an LVN or LPN (Licensed Vocational Nurse/Licensed Practical
>>>>>>> Nurse) is probably not qualified to diagnose. An experienced RN is
>>>>>>> probably qualified, but legally can't diagnose or proscribe treatment. A
>>>>>>> NP (Nurse practitioner) is both qualified and allowed to diagnose and
>>>>>>> proscribe treatment, and depending on the state, is allowed to write
>>>>>>> prescriptions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Diagnosis is not a problem. We now have online web sites and AI
>>>>>> algorithms that can diagnose many common ailments. For example:
>>>>>> <https://symptoms.webmd.com>
>>>>>> <https://www.mayoclinic.org/symptom-checker/select-symptom/itt-20009075>
>>>>>> More:
>>>>>> <https://openmd.com/directory/symptoms>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Treatment is a different story. The medical establishment has a very
>>>>>> effective monopoly on drugs and procedures, which is probably a good
>>>>>> thing from the safety standpoint. There are databases of commonly
>>>>>> prescribed drugs and treatments, but those are not easily
>>>>>> understandable or accessible to the GUM (great unwashed masses). The
>>>>>> Star Trek Tricorder is a probably a decade in the future. An open
>>>>>> source medication replicator, maybe 20 years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm as critical as anyone of our recently diminished Medical
>>>>> Billing Industry (formerly medical services). That said,
>>>>> diagnosis is a refined art requiring both great skill and
>>>>> deep knowledge, ideally after thousands of iterations. MDs
>>>>> who are good are very good (although that group is
>>>>> retiring/quitting at dramatic rates). The news is filled
>>>>> with idiots who (wrongly) self-diagnose from web pages.
>>>>> Something to keep in mind- seek an informed opinion besides
>>>>> your own.
>>>>
>>>> I believe I've posted about the chap I knew -Special Forces trained
>>>> Medic - who described some of the testing that he went through before
>>>> he graduated from Medic Training. One was to be presented a list of
>>>> the patients complaints and then diagnose the most likely problem.
>>>>
>>>> Something along the line of, A bloke comes in and with a slight fever
>>>> and a small cough, his right hip hurts and he had loose bowels
>>>> yesterday.
>>>>
>>>> What is the most likely problem and what is the recommended treatment?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Try appendicitis, most commonly seen in military age young
>>> men and notoriously difficult to diagnose. Not slighting
>>> Navy Medical Corpsmen but there's a lot more to this.
>>
>>
>> Nope. The bloke had "had drink taken" the previous evening and the
>> fall that hurt the hip, headache and loose bowels was the result. The
>> treatment was two APC pills and "come back tomorrow if you don't feel
>> better" (:-)
>>
>
>My point was that medical diagnoses can be difficult at
>times with high stakes.

Yes.

Your mention of appendicitis brings back the memory of a chap in the
welding shop who had been brazing galvanized "drip pans" which is a
bad thing to be doing as inhaling zinc fumes can and will result in
rather severe problems. And yes we used to do it against USAF
regulations by using a large floor fan to blow the fumes away from the
welder.

Anyway this bloke had been doing it and did get poisoning which
resulted in severe abdominal pains and we took him to the Base
Hospital all scrunched up in a ball in the back of somebody's pickup.

The doctor there diagnosed acute appendicitis and was all for rushing
him straight into the operating and the two of us who had brought him
in are almost shouting "No! Its Galvanizing poison!" And of course
being ignored by the doctors, "Who are these people with dirty
fatigues on?"

We finally holler and shout enough that one of the doctors gets the
USAF Handbook on Poisons out and Lo and Behold! Zinc poisoning!

My memory may be faulty but I have the idea that drinking a lot of
milk was the cure.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:19:04 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:22:23 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:24:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 1:25:07 AM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 16:15:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 3:58:09 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> >> On 2/21/2022 6:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > He has a Phd. in health science.
>> >> >> > What can you do with a masters in health science?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Pediatrics
>> >> >> > Physical Therapy
>> >> >> > Neurology
>> >> >> > Oncology
>> >> >> Wait! Is Tom Kunich now saying that education makes a person
>> >> >> knowledgeable, and qualified to speak on matters he's studied?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Glory be!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Now will Tom convince those without diplomas and degrees to quiet down
>> >> >> and listen to huge numbers of highly educated and trained specialists?
>> >> >
>> >> >He has a PhD Frank, and he has actually studied his subject. What do you have? If you were a real engineer you would have obtained a job as a real engineer. So tell me all about how some worthless amateur like yourself pretends to be educated?
>> >> Your argument is silly. I worked with a bloke, several of them, that
>> >> had PhD's and none of them claimed to be sufficiently well educated to
>> >> diagnose or treat sick people.
>> >
>> >What education have you had John? If must have been very great considering you parked aircraft with a tow truck and made sure that the real technicians filled out the paperwork. Impress me some more
>> What education? Well, I have a high school diploma so 1 for me and 0
>> for you. Then I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering (aeronautical)
>> so 2 for me and 0 for you. And finally I completed an apprenticeship
>> in Machine Shop Practice (as my certificate says) so 3 for me and
>> strike out for you.
>
>Well, I was making a quarter of a million dollars per year without your oh so valuable diploma. Tell us how much you were making?

Well Tommy as you lied on the first entry in your fabulous
resume one can only assume that you lied in other places also so it
seems quite likely that much of your resume is just "bull shit".

After all a "resume" is simply your listing of jobs that you claim to
have had, with no proof at all that you actually held the job. So who
knows what you were doing.

And, I might all, with all the spurious claims you have made over the
years right here on RBT it seems very likely that you are lying.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:29:04 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:45:49 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 2/22/2022 11:24 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What education have you had John?
>> >
>> >:-) Another day of unintentional irony from the guy without even a high
>> >school diploma!
>> >
>> >But congratulations on the GED certificate, Tom. At least you've got
>> >that, right?
>> But did he, really?
>>
>> For some years Tommy bragged about his failure to graduate from high
>> school and then you, Frank, mentioned the GED and suddenly Tommy
>> claimed that "Oh Yes! I had one of them too!
>
>According to Frank, a GED isn't a high school diploma. Also according to Frank, the test given to people entering the service isn't an IQ test and yet they put me working on the bomb/nav system on a B52 and they put you asking a tow truck operator to tow your aircraft over to a parking space. They put you holding a log book for the crew to enter their complaints and for technicians to check off.

No tommy they didn't "put you to working", they awarded you a 3 level
skill designation and put you to work carrying the tool box for a
skilled craftsman.

>And I also said that at my high school reunion I discovered that I did have a high school graduation anyway since I had more than enough credits to graduate when I joined the Air Force 3 months before normal graduation. But you and Frank continue to show your mass jealousy of successful people because you worked very hard to become nothing.

Yes you've told us and you've told us the moon is blue cheese and that
the world is flat. Nobody believes you any more, Tommy.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:37:25 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:57:17 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/22/2022 6:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>> > On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:38:59 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2/22/2022 12:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> >>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 10:11:43 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 2/22/2022 1:21 AM, John B. wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> <snip>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Yes, I was being unduly sarcastic but I do maintain that Nurses are
>> >>>>> not qualified to either diagnose nor proscribe treatment.
>> >>>
>> >>>> Depends on the type of nurse.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In the U.S., an LVN or LPN (Licensed Vocational Nurse/Licensed Practical
>> >>>> Nurse) is probably not qualified to diagnose. An experienced RN is
>> >>>> probably qualified, but legally can't diagnose or proscribe treatment. A
>> >>>> NP (Nurse practitioner) is both qualified and allowed to diagnose and
>> >>>> proscribe treatment, and depending on the state, is allowed to write
>> >>>> prescriptions.
>> >>>
>> >>> Diagnosis is not a problem. We now have online web sites and AI
>> >>> algorithms that can diagnose many common ailments. For example:
>> >>> <https://symptoms.webmd.com>
>> >>> <https://www.mayoclinic.org/symptom-checker/select-symptom/itt-20009075>
>> >>> More:
>> >>> <https://openmd.com/directory/symptoms>
>> >>>
>> >>> Treatment is a different story. The medical establishment has a very
>> >>> effective monopoly on drugs and procedures, which is probably a good
>> >>> thing from the safety standpoint. There are databases of commonly
>> >>> prescribed drugs and treatments, but those are not easily
>> >>> understandable or accessible to the GUM (great unwashed masses). The
>> >>> Star Trek Tricorder is a probably a decade in the future. An open
>> >>> source medication replicator, maybe 20 years.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I'm as critical as anyone of our recently diminished Medical
>> >> Billing Industry (formerly medical services). That said,
>> >> diagnosis is a refined art requiring both great skill and
>> >> deep knowledge, ideally after thousands of iterations. MDs
>> >> who are good are very good (although that group is
>> >> retiring/quitting at dramatic rates). The news is filled
>> >> with idiots who (wrongly) self-diagnose from web pages.
>> >> Something to keep in mind- seek an informed opinion besides
>> >> your own.
>> >
>> > I believe I've posted about the chap I knew -Special Forces trained
>> > Medic - who described some of the testing that he went through before
>> > he graduated from Medic Training. One was to be presented a list of
>> > the patients complaints and then diagnose the most likely problem.
>> >
>> > Something along the line of, A bloke comes in and with a slight fever
>> > and a small cough, his right hip hurts and he had loose bowels
>> > yesterday.
>> >
>> > What is the most likely problem and what is the recommended treatment?
>> >
>> Try appendicitis, most commonly seen in military age young
>> men and notoriously difficult to diagnose. Not slighting
>> Navy Medical Corpsmen but there's a lot more to this.
>
>I presently am having stress pain in my left lower abdomen and am one of the one out of 8500 to have their guts reversed. So perhaps I am developing appendicitis.

"one of the one out of 8500 to have their guts reversed"???

You mean you stick a hotdog up your arse and shit comes out of your
mouth?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:43:19 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:37:01 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:42:03 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 08:16:58 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:24:39 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>> >>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 13:44:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>> >>>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:42:11 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> >>>><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>>The only thing I can remember about it is that I was the only one
>> >>>>>that could use the Captain's Sextant to measure distance off-shore
>> >>>>>and take a noon latitude.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>More amazing facts that demonstrate you've never used a sextant. You
>> >>>>cannot measure distance with a sextant. All it does is measure the
>> >>>>elevation angle above the horizon. You can obtain the latitude with a
>> >>>>noon sight. How does one measure distance with a sextant?
>> >>>
>> >>>Oops. I just realized that it is possible to measure distance off
>> >>>short with a sextant. It's not commonly used in that manner, but it
>> >>>is possible. Tom, can you explain how it's done? If you can't, I'll
>> >>>explain (later).
>> >
>> >>I asked him in another message but you cannot measure distance with
>> >>only a sextant and no other device/thing/etc.. Perhaps a trick
>> >>question but certainly true.
>> >
>> >I beg to differ. I initially thought it couldn't be done but upon
>> >further reflection, I realized that it's quite easy. You're correct
>> >that other items are required:
>> >1. Road map or nautical chart of the area.
>> >2. Calculator and scratch pad.
>> >3. Binoculars.
>> >I will admit that it's somewhat of a trick question. However, I can't
>> >think of a hint that wouldn't also disclose the method, so I'll save
>> >that for later.
>> >
>> Read what I said - cannot measure distance with only a sextant and no
>> other device/thing/etc."
>>
>> And yes... if you have an accurate chart or you know the height of a
>> mountain or the distance between to rocks you can calculate distance
>> with a sextant but they are "other devices, things, etc." (:-)
>>
>> But having said that many nautical charts were drawn from survey data
>> perhaps a hundred years, or more, old and weren't accurate down to the
>> last nth of a whatever. I'm reminded of a good friend who's favorite
>> anchoring place at an island in the Philippines was, according to his
>> new GPS, something like a mile onto dry land.
>>
>> See
>> https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2016/06/23/accurate-nautical-charts/
>> for more information
>
>Why are you continually posting about things you know absolutely nothing about? Do you believe that ships and boats navigate anything more than crudely by navigational chart? You simply must advertise your ignorance with every push of a key don't you?

Whatever are you going on about? A ship, or an airplane, or even a guy
on a bicycle can only navigate to an accuracy depicted on the charts
or maps and no one even pretends that charts are accurate down the
last nth of a whatever. Now the newer charts all list a ZOC "Zone of
Confidence" figure.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 09:58:20 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:14:44 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 2:24:48 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 13:44:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:42:11 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>> ><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >>The only thing I can remember about it is that I was the only one
>>> >>that could use the Captain's Sextant to measure distance off-shore
>>> >>and take a noon latitude.
>
>>> >More amazing facts that demonstrate you've never used a sextant. You
>>> >cannot measure distance with a sextant. All it does is measure the
>>> >elevation angle above the horizon. You can obtain the latitude with a
>>> >noon sight. How does one measure distance with a sextant?
>
>>> Oops. I just realized that it is possible to measure distance off
>>> short with a sextant. It's not commonly used in that manner, but it
>>> is possible. Tom, can you explain how it's done? If you can't, I'll
>>> explain (later).
>
>>So suddenly you remember what trigonometry is? Amazing. You must have emailed someone that actually has an education.
>
>Actually, I struggled with the trig for about 2 hours last night and
>eventually decided that I must be doing something wrong. So, I
>cheated and used Google search to find the solution. I found several,
>all of which turned out to be quite simple.
>
>So, are you going to explain how to measure the distance off-shore
>using sextant? You claimed that "I was the only one that could use
>the Captain's Sextant to measure distance off-shore". You claim that
>you had a degree in navigation and some experience with the method(s).
>Therefore you should be able to explain how it's done. If you feel
>uncomfortable with the trig, explain how it's done with a sextant,
>nautical chart (map), drafting compass, calculator and ruler. I'll
>provide the math and trig if necessary. There are several methods and
>variations, some which require little or no math. If you need clues
>to refresh your memory, I can provide some. I'll wait until the
>weekend for your reply.
>
>Incidentally, "I was the only one that could use the Captain's
>Sextant...and take a noon latitude" seems a bit odd because it usually
>takes two sailors to do a noon sight. It can be done by one person if
>there is a radio receiver available to play the WWV time while
>counting the clicks or using a stopwatch to obtain the exact time.
>However, it's much better to record a series of sextant measurements
>to accurately determine the exact time when the sun is at the highest
>point, which requires two sailors. Something like this:
><https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2020/june/navigating-sextant>
>If you were the only one who knew how to do this, how did you manage
>to do it by yourself?

Actually people do make noon shots alone (:-) I've done it myself.
Hold the sextant and stopwatch in one hand and when you bring the sun
all the way down click the stopwatch. Then compare the stopwatch with
the chronometer to get the "exact time"

But then, any form of "navigation" on a 40 ft. yacht bobbing round in
the ocean is approximate only (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:07:36 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:19:04 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Well, I was making a quarter of a million dollars per year without your oh so valuable diploma. Tell us how much you were making?
>
>We've been here before. Which company paid you $250,000/year, which
>at the time was likely more than what they paid the company president?
>Does that include bonuses and stock options?

No of course not. I would expect that such a successful chap as tommy
wouldn't even bother with such mundane things as stock options or
bonuses. (Or know what they were).

He has already told us what he actually did - fill out forms for
homosexuals - no stock bonuses there.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:13:11 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 2/23/2022 10:02 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallejo,_California>
>> The first line says:
>> "Vallejo is a waterfront city in Solano County, California..."
>> <https://goo.gl/maps/bq4Dbrn83vm33ggE7>
>
>What's so strange is that instead of Tom simply admitting an honest
>mistake, of not knowing which county the city of Vallejo, and the CSU
>Maritime Academy are located, he decides to double down and lie yet
>again. To what end? There's no debate as to which county Vallejo is in.

Give the poor old guy the benefit of the doubt. He does suffer from
delusions so lets assume that he truly believes that Vallejo is here
when it is actually there. (Or there when it is actually here (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2/23/2022 5:03 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 08:03:34 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2/22/2022 8:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:57:12 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/22/2022 6:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:38:59 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 12:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 10:11:43 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 1:21 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I was being unduly sarcastic but I do maintain that Nurses are
>>>>>>>>> not qualified to either diagnose nor proscribe treatment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Depends on the type of nurse.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the U.S., an LVN or LPN (Licensed Vocational Nurse/Licensed Practical
>>>>>>>> Nurse) is probably not qualified to diagnose. An experienced RN is
>>>>>>>> probably qualified, but legally can't diagnose or proscribe treatment. A
>>>>>>>> NP (Nurse practitioner) is both qualified and allowed to diagnose and
>>>>>>>> proscribe treatment, and depending on the state, is allowed to write
>>>>>>>> prescriptions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Diagnosis is not a problem. We now have online web sites and AI
>>>>>>> algorithms that can diagnose many common ailments. For example:
>>>>>>> <https://symptoms.webmd.com>
>>>>>>> <https://www.mayoclinic.org/symptom-checker/select-symptom/itt-20009075>
>>>>>>> More:
>>>>>>> <https://openmd.com/directory/symptoms>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Treatment is a different story. The medical establishment has a very
>>>>>>> effective monopoly on drugs and procedures, which is probably a good
>>>>>>> thing from the safety standpoint. There are databases of commonly
>>>>>>> prescribed drugs and treatments, but those are not easily
>>>>>>> understandable or accessible to the GUM (great unwashed masses). The
>>>>>>> Star Trek Tricorder is a probably a decade in the future. An open
>>>>>>> source medication replicator, maybe 20 years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm as critical as anyone of our recently diminished Medical
>>>>>> Billing Industry (formerly medical services). That said,
>>>>>> diagnosis is a refined art requiring both great skill and
>>>>>> deep knowledge, ideally after thousands of iterations. MDs
>>>>>> who are good are very good (although that group is
>>>>>> retiring/quitting at dramatic rates). The news is filled
>>>>>> with idiots who (wrongly) self-diagnose from web pages.
>>>>>> Something to keep in mind- seek an informed opinion besides
>>>>>> your own.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe I've posted about the chap I knew -Special Forces trained
>>>>> Medic - who described some of the testing that he went through before
>>>>> he graduated from Medic Training. One was to be presented a list of
>>>>> the patients complaints and then diagnose the most likely problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Something along the line of, A bloke comes in and with a slight fever
>>>>> and a small cough, his right hip hurts and he had loose bowels
>>>>> yesterday.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the most likely problem and what is the recommended treatment?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Try appendicitis, most commonly seen in military age young
>>>> men and notoriously difficult to diagnose. Not slighting
>>>> Navy Medical Corpsmen but there's a lot more to this.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope. The bloke had "had drink taken" the previous evening and the
>>> fall that hurt the hip, headache and loose bowels was the result. The
>>> treatment was two APC pills and "come back tomorrow if you don't feel
>>> better" (:-)
>>>
>>
>> My point was that medical diagnoses can be difficult at
>> times with high stakes.
>
> Yes.
>
> Your mention of appendicitis brings back the memory of a chap in the
> welding shop who had been brazing galvanized "drip pans" which is a
> bad thing to be doing as inhaling zinc fumes can and will result in
> rather severe problems. And yes we used to do it against USAF
> regulations by using a large floor fan to blow the fumes away from the
> welder.
>
> Anyway this bloke had been doing it and did get poisoning which
> resulted in severe abdominal pains and we took him to the Base
> Hospital all scrunched up in a ball in the back of somebody's pickup.
>
> The doctor there diagnosed acute appendicitis and was all for rushing
> him straight into the operating and the two of us who had brought him
> in are almost shouting "No! Its Galvanizing poison!" And of course
> being ignored by the doctors, "Who are these people with dirty
> fatigues on?"
>
> We finally holler and shout enough that one of the doctors gets the
> USAF Handbook on Poisons out and Lo and Behold! Zinc poisoning!
>
> My memory may be faulty but I have the idea that drinking a lot of
> milk was the cure.
>

I've done that. Once. It was enough.
Yes, milk. And my brother the doc (not an internist) says
possible appendicitis is a knotty problem. If it is and you
miss it, it can be deadly. Then again opening a human
needlessly is frowned on as well.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/23/2022 4:28 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:13:11 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/23/2022 10:02 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallejo,_California>
>>> The first line says:
>>> "Vallejo is a waterfront city in Solano County, California..."
>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/bq4Dbrn83vm33ggE7>
>>
>> What's so strange is that instead of Tom simply admitting an honest
>> mistake, of not knowing which county the city of Vallejo, and the CSU
>> Maritime Academy are located, he decides to double down and lie yet
>> again. To what end? There's no debate as to which county Vallejo is in.
>
> Give the poor old guy the benefit of the doubt. He does suffer from
> delusions so lets assume that he truly believes that Vallejo is here
> when it is actually there. (Or there when it is actually here (:-)

Whatever. It's just that it's no big deal to admit that you don't know
which county a city is in, lots of people probably are unfamiliar where
county boundaries are. It's just odd that he would double-down on being
wrong when he could easily look up the correct information.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:42:23 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/23/2022 5:03 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 08:03:34 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/22/2022 8:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:57:12 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/22/2022 6:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:38:59 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 12:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 10:11:43 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 1:21 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I was being unduly sarcastic but I do maintain that Nurses are
>>>>>>>>>> not qualified to either diagnose nor proscribe treatment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Depends on the type of nurse.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the U.S., an LVN or LPN (Licensed Vocational Nurse/Licensed Practical
>>>>>>>>> Nurse) is probably not qualified to diagnose. An experienced RN is
>>>>>>>>> probably qualified, but legally can't diagnose or proscribe treatment. A
>>>>>>>>> NP (Nurse practitioner) is both qualified and allowed to diagnose and
>>>>>>>>> proscribe treatment, and depending on the state, is allowed to write
>>>>>>>>> prescriptions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Diagnosis is not a problem. We now have online web sites and AI
>>>>>>>> algorithms that can diagnose many common ailments. For example:
>>>>>>>> <https://symptoms.webmd.com>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.mayoclinic.org/symptom-checker/select-symptom/itt-20009075>
>>>>>>>> More:
>>>>>>>> <https://openmd.com/directory/symptoms>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Treatment is a different story. The medical establishment has a very
>>>>>>>> effective monopoly on drugs and procedures, which is probably a good
>>>>>>>> thing from the safety standpoint. There are databases of commonly
>>>>>>>> prescribed drugs and treatments, but those are not easily
>>>>>>>> understandable or accessible to the GUM (great unwashed masses). The
>>>>>>>> Star Trek Tricorder is a probably a decade in the future. An open
>>>>>>>> source medication replicator, maybe 20 years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm as critical as anyone of our recently diminished Medical
>>>>>>> Billing Industry (formerly medical services). That said,
>>>>>>> diagnosis is a refined art requiring both great skill and
>>>>>>> deep knowledge, ideally after thousands of iterations. MDs
>>>>>>> who are good are very good (although that group is
>>>>>>> retiring/quitting at dramatic rates). The news is filled
>>>>>>> with idiots who (wrongly) self-diagnose from web pages.
>>>>>>> Something to keep in mind- seek an informed opinion besides
>>>>>>> your own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe I've posted about the chap I knew -Special Forces trained
>>>>>> Medic - who described some of the testing that he went through before
>>>>>> he graduated from Medic Training. One was to be presented a list of
>>>>>> the patients complaints and then diagnose the most likely problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Something along the line of, A bloke comes in and with a slight fever
>>>>>> and a small cough, his right hip hurts and he had loose bowels
>>>>>> yesterday.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the most likely problem and what is the recommended treatment?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Try appendicitis, most commonly seen in military age young
>>>>> men and notoriously difficult to diagnose. Not slighting
>>>>> Navy Medical Corpsmen but there's a lot more to this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope. The bloke had "had drink taken" the previous evening and the
>>>> fall that hurt the hip, headache and loose bowels was the result. The
>>>> treatment was two APC pills and "come back tomorrow if you don't feel
>>>> better" (:-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> My point was that medical diagnoses can be difficult at
>>> times with high stakes.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> Your mention of appendicitis brings back the memory of a chap in the
>> welding shop who had been brazing galvanized "drip pans" which is a
>> bad thing to be doing as inhaling zinc fumes can and will result in
>> rather severe problems. And yes we used to do it against USAF
>> regulations by using a large floor fan to blow the fumes away from the
>> welder.
>>
>> Anyway this bloke had been doing it and did get poisoning which
>> resulted in severe abdominal pains and we took him to the Base
>> Hospital all scrunched up in a ball in the back of somebody's pickup.
>>
>> The doctor there diagnosed acute appendicitis and was all for rushing
>> him straight into the operating and the two of us who had brought him
>> in are almost shouting "No! Its Galvanizing poison!" And of course
>> being ignored by the doctors, "Who are these people with dirty
>> fatigues on?"
>>
>> We finally holler and shout enough that one of the doctors gets the
>> USAF Handbook on Poisons out and Lo and Behold! Zinc poisoning!
>>
>> My memory may be faulty but I have the idea that drinking a lot of
>> milk was the cure.
>>
>
>I've done that. Once. It was enough.
>Yes, milk. And my brother the doc (not an internist) says
>possible appendicitis is a knotty problem. If it is and you
>miss it, it can be deadly. Then again opening a human
>needlessly is frowned on as well.

Yes, I believe that when the appendix ruptures then you have a life
threatening condition and that was, I suppose, the reason for the Air
Force Doctors being concerned enough to want to rush the guy into the
operating room.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 10:44:37 PM UTC-6, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 11:22:50 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 10:02:44 AM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:34:46 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:50:20 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> >> >> On 2/22/2022 12:03 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >> > I take some notes. I was thinking of producing a web page itemizing
> >> >> > Tom's lies, amazing facts, and unanswered questions. I haven't done
> >> >> > this because I suspect Tom might enjoy the attention and I'm currently
> >> >> > a bit busy.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> What I recall about you and "college" is
> >> >> >> your tale of attending part of a term and walking out because the
> >> >> >> socialist instructors obviously didn't know as much as you did.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Something like that. I don't recall exactly what Tom claimed and am
> >> >> > too busy/lazy to search for the exact claim.
> >> >> Not to cast any aspersions on lovely Marin County, but there are not any
> >> >> "highly ranked colleges" there.
> >> >>
> >> >> In Vallejo there is the California Maritime Academy, now called CSU
> >> >> Maritime Academy. Vallejo is in Solano County. They have several courses
> >> >> in navigation. Perhaps that is what Tom was referring to and just didn't
> >> >> know what county the school is in.
> >>
> >> >So, now we know that Scharf is totally unaware that Vallejo is in Marin County. But he would like you to vote for him.
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallejo,_California>
> >> The first line says:
> >> "Vallejo is a waterfront city in Solano County, California..."
> >> <https://goo.gl/maps/bq4Dbrn83vm33ggE7>
> >
> >On the Marin peninsula.
>
> Nope. Vallejo and the Marin Peninsula are on opposite sides of San
> Pablo Bay.
> <https://goo.gl/maps/KH6w8Bocbs8qYoRi7>
> The Marin Peninsula is in Marin County. Vallejo is in Solano County.
> The California State Maritime Academy (CSU Maritime Academy), has 23
> campuses. The campus you allegedly attended and linked to is in
> Vallejo:
> <https://www.edumaritime.net/california/california-maritime-academy-vallejo>
> (Near bottom of page):
> "Residence: Cal Maritime is a residential campus. All students are
> required to live on campus and participate in a meal plan for all four
> years of their education at the university."

Completely non bicycle related. Of course. But I wonder about this requirement to live on campus for all four years. It is a state school. Government, not private. Odd they have this rule. I know many schools, including state run schools, that do require freshman to live on campus in dormitories. But after the first year, you can live anywhere you want. Pretty sure with fraternities and sororities, they do not accept freshman students. Only beginning the sophomore year can you live in the fraternity or sorority.. But that is unrelated to a state school requiring all students to live on campus for the entire college session.

> Ummm... If you lived on campus while attending the college, I would
> expect you to know in which county the college was located.
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 21:09:01 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:59:47 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
><lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 7:28:13 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:13:11 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >On 2/23/2022 10:02 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> >
>>> ><snip>
>>> >
>>> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallejo,_California>
>>> >> The first line says:
>>> >> "Vallejo is a waterfront city in Solano County, California..."
>>> >> <https://goo.gl/maps/bq4Dbrn83vm33ggE7>
>>>
>>> >What's so strange is that instead of Tom simply admitting an honest
>>> >mistake, of not knowing which county the city of Vallejo, and the CSU
>>> >Maritime Academy are located, he decides to double down and lie yet
>>> >again. To what end? There's no debate as to which county Vallejo is in.
>>> I've been pondering the same question. My best guess(tm) is that Tom
>>> is looking for attention. It doesn't matter if his comments are right
>>> or wrong as long as he gets his daily (hourly?) dose of attention from
>>> readers. A correct answer, apology, or admission of error will
>>> usually result in no replies. However, a wrong answer, insult, or
>>> stupid comment, will attract far more attention. So, Tom tends to be
>>> chronically wrong because it works best for his goal of attracting
>>> attention to himself.
>
>>Assume that is the case what would a smart person do?
>>Lou
>
>Do nothing. According to Tom, I'm not a smart person. Therefore, I'm
>not qualified to offer suggestions as to what a smart person could,
>would, or should do.
>
>Other than the "Haters" (which sounds like a good name for a rock
>band), nobody in RBT has asked Tom to stop posting political rubbish
>and hijacking cycling related threads. The only requests were
>directed at me, to cease posting off topic articles and criticizing
>Tom. I twice promised Sir Ridesalot to stop, at least temporarily, in
>the vain hope that Tom would do the same. I lasted about 1 week each
>time. Tom has also promised two or maybe three times to ignore
>comments by the "Haters" and to not respond. Tom abstained for about
>a day.
>
>If you want me to stop fact checking Tom's misinformation all that
>needs to be done is have the majority of RBT readers explain to Tom
>that his non-bicycling postings, amazing facts, and outright lies are
>not wanted or appreciated. If he stops posting these, I will have
>nothing to complain about and will therefore automatically cease
>criticizing Tom.

Goodness, you don't have to fact check, Just tell Tom he is lying and
statistically you will be right more times then you will be wrong (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 11:40:46 PM UTC-6, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:52:08 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Completely non bicycle related. Of course. But I wonder about this requirement to live on campus for all four years. It is a state school. Government, not private. Odd they have this rule. I know many schools, including state run schools, that do require freshman to live on campus in dormitories. But after the first year, you can live anywhere you want. Pretty sure with fraternities and sororities, they do not accept freshman students. Only beginning the sophomore year can you live in the fraternity or sorority. But that is unrelated to a state school requiring all students to live on campus for the entire college session.
> Looks like the Cal Maritime college is different from the rest of the
> California state college system in that it requires "cadets" to live
> on campus, while the other colleges only require the freshmen students
> to live on campus.
>
> "Cal Maritime. Housing & Residential Life"
> <https://www.csum.edu/housing/>
> "Cal Maritime is a residential campus where all cadets are required to
> live on campus and participate in a meal plan throughout the duration
> of their education at Cal Maritime."

Cadets? Sounds like this Cal Maritime is a state run military school. Similar, but at a state level, to West Point or Naval Academy or Air Force Academy in Colorado. I wonder if any one can apply and be accepted to this Cal Maritime. Or does it have various restrictions and procedures to being admitted.

>
> "A Complete Guide to Campus Housing in California"
> <https://www.campusexplorer.com/student-resources/best-college-dorms-in-california/>
> "Most freshmen are required to live on campus (space permitting)"
>
> "Off-Campus Housing Policy and Petition"
> <https://www.csum.edu/housing/off-campus-housing-policy-and-petition.html>
> "Cadets enrolled in any baccalaureate degree programs at the
> California State University Maritime Academy are required to maintain
> residency on campus and participate in a meal plan each year until
> graduation. However, cadets may be exempted from living on-campus if
> they meet eligibility, submit an off-campus petition, and is approved
> for off-campus status."
> Apparently Cal Maritime students can live off campus if they meet some
> requirements and apply for an exemption.
>
> I attended CSU Northridge and Cal Poly, Pomona. I was not required to
> live on campus at either state college. However, that was in the
> 1960's, where the rules may have been quite different.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 2/24/2022 12:09 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> Other than the "Haters" (which sounds like a good name for a rock
> band), nobody in RBT has asked Tom to stop posting political rubbish
> and hijacking cycling related threads. The only requests were
> directed at me, to cease posting off topic articles and criticizing
> Tom. I twice promised Sir Ridesalot to stop, at least temporarily, in
> the vain hope that Tom would do the same. I lasted about 1 week each
> time. Tom has also promised two or maybe three times to ignore
> comments by the "Haters" and to not respond. Tom abstained for about
> a day.
>
> If you want me to stop fact checking Tom's misinformation all that
> needs to be done is have the majority of RBT readers explain to Tom
> that his non-bicycling postings, amazing facts, and outright lies are
> not wanted or appreciated. If he stops posting these, I will have
> nothing to complain about and will therefore automatically cease
> criticizing Tom.

Good point. I suspect Tom gets perverse satisfaction, and even imagines
some aproval, each time someone complains about responses to Tom without
complaining about Tom's own posts.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/24/2022 12:17 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

> Cadets? Sounds like this Cal Maritime is a state run military school. Similar, but at a state level, to West Point or Naval Academy or Air Force Academy in Colorado. I wonder if any one can apply and be accepted to this Cal Maritime. Or does it have various restrictions and procedures to being admitted.

IIRC it used to be independent and then became a CSU campus. It's to
train for maritime careers.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 2/24/2022 12:09 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> Other than the "Haters" (which sounds like a good name for a rock
>> band), nobody in RBT has asked Tom to stop posting political rubbish
>> and hijacking cycling related threads. The only requests were
>> directed at me, to cease posting off topic articles and criticizing
>> Tom. I twice promised Sir Ridesalot to stop, at least temporarily, in
>> the vain hope that Tom would do the same. I lasted about 1 week each
>> time. Tom has also promised two or maybe three times to ignore
>> comments by the "Haters" and to not respond. Tom abstained for about
>> a day.
>>
>> If you want me to stop fact checking Tom's misinformation all that
>> needs to be done is have the majority of RBT readers explain to Tom
>> that his non-bicycling postings, amazing facts, and outright lies are
>> not wanted or appreciated. If he stops posting these, I will have
>> nothing to complain about and will therefore automatically cease
>> criticizing Tom.
>
> Good point. I suspect Tom gets perverse satisfaction, and even imagines
> some aproval, each time someone complains about responses to Tom without
> complaining about Tom's own posts.
>

Theoretically, the solution to these threads is for Tom to stop posting.
However, I’m pretty certain that’s impossible. Therefore, the practical
solution is for others to not reply. Engineering is the art of looking at
the theoretical and coming up with the practical.