Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:08kedgppc31ok3kkupqmn7ha7kl5mv8t2j@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:11:49 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
> <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Quadibloc
>
> <snippo ranting>
>
>>The ONLY purpose for registration is so the authorities can then
>>round up the guns and imprison the law abiding owners when the
>>gun control laws reach that point.
>
> That's not true.
>
> They can also use the info to identify gun shops that sell guns
> to criminals -- not occasionally (anybody can be fooled, from
> time to time), but deliberately, repeatedly, intentionally.

No, they really can't. Faking the records is a less serious crime
than the sale itself.

As usual, the retard gun grabber parrot believes that new laws will
be enforced when existing laws being broken are not.

Idiot.
>
>>And they inevitably will reach that point, as there is no point
>>when anti-gun fundies will ever say "that�s enough gun control".
>
> That's true of most fanatics.

With as many *decades* of peer reviewed research showing how
useless (at best) gun control laws are, only fanatics (and ones
particularly disconnected from reality in one way or another) still
advocate for gun control.
>
> Indeed, that attitude is one way to detect fanaticism.

Indeed, advocating for gun control law is a 100% accurate say to
detect fanaticism.
>
> But, yes, some of the gun-control people do appear to be
> fanatics.

100% of the. Every. Single. One. It is not possible to hold those
beliefs with a serious disconnect from reality.
>
>>> If that is over-optimistic, we may have to implement controls
>>> on things like blacksmith's anvils or milling machines.
>>
>>Indeed and now with the advent of 3D printing tech, most of the
>>gun components can be made in anyone�s garage.
>>
>>https://theconversation.com/the-legal-minefield-of-3d-printed-gun
>>s-71878
>
> The last I read, such guns are good for one shot. And not very
> accurate.

It only takes one shot to kill a cop and take his gun.

And every competent machinest (there are about 400,000 in the US,
according to Google) can make a firearm within a few hours, that is
identical to what's being factory manufactured today. Even with a
serial number, if they choose. Ban machine shops, and civilization
collapses. Literally. No cars, no electricity, no regrigeration, no
mass production of any kind.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote in
news:5bd48bcc-ef31-4fcb-bc35-c6e96b983182n@googlegroups.com:

> On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 6:52:23 PM UTC-4,
> edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > Paul S Person
>> > > Ed Stasiak
>> > >
>> > > The ONLY purpose for registration is so the authorities can
>> > > then round up the guns and imprison the law abiding owners
>> > > when the gun control laws reach that point.
>> >
>> > That's not true.
>> >
>> > They can also use the info to identify gun shops that sell
>> > guns to criminals -- not occasionally (anybody can be fooled,
>> > from time to time), but deliberately, repeatedly,
>> > intentionally.
>> There are 54,000 licensed gun dealers in the U.S. and only a
>> tiny fraction of them commit any crimes, this is a non-issue
>> because criminals don’t buy legal guns, they steal them or
>> get them off t
> he
>> black market, where there are fuckloads of them floating
>> around.
>
> It has occurred to me that trying to understand he place have
> guns in American culture by watching America popular media and
> what appears on the news is a bit like trying to understand cars
> and their place in American culture by the Fast and the Furious
> films.
>
Which is to, it's all fiction, including the news.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

> pete...@gmail.com
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > There are 54,000 licensed gun dealers in the U.S. and only a tiny
> > fraction of them commit any crimes, this is a non-issue because
> > criminals don’t buy legal guns, they steal them or get them off the
> > black market, where there are fuckloads of them floating around.
>
> It has occurred to me that trying to understand he place have guns in American
> culture by watching America popular media and what appears on the news is
> a bit like trying to understand cars and their place in American culture by the
> Fast and the Furious films.

That's because the media's representation of guns is almost always
wrong, either thru ignorance or malice.

For example, up-thread silencers (suppressors) are mentioned and
if we go by what Hollywood has taught us, they render a gun whisper
quiet allowing Bad Guys to murder people even in the midst of a
crowd with no-one the wiser;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOQlhdzcrA

This is of course nonsense, a silencer only decreases the sound to
the point the gun is safe to shoot without ear plugs, a pistol fired
with a silencer is still roughly as loud as a firecracker and further
more, like CPLs, most states have legalized owning a silencer with
no criminal repercussions.

https://lodge-cdn.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/wp-content/uploads/ATG_Silencer-State-Map-1-1024x769.jpg

States have also relaxed regulations for NFA weapons (i.e. machine
guns and such) and last I heard, the only time a legally owned full-
auto weapon was used in a crime, it was by a cop moonlighting as
a bank robber.

https://www.globalsistersreport.org/sites/default/files/stories/images/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-08%20at%2011.17.57%20PM.png

Most states even allow switch-blades.

https://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/sitrep-akti-knives-01.jpg

Anti-gun fundies, their Democrat allies and co-conspirators in the
Mainstream Media are lying thru their teeth.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 06:05:06 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
<edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>> pete...@gmail.com
>> > Ed Stasiak
>> >
>> > There are 54,000 licensed gun dealers in the U.S. and only a tiny
>> > fraction of them commit any crimes, this is a non-issue because
>> > criminals don’t buy legal guns, they steal them or get them off the
>> > black market, where there are fuckloads of them floating around.
>>
>> It has occurred to me that trying to understand he place have guns in American
>> culture by watching America popular media and what appears on the news is
>> a bit like trying to understand cars and their place in American culture by the
>> Fast and the Furious films.
>
>That's because the media's representation of guns is almost always
>wrong, either thru ignorance or malice.
>
>For example, up-thread silencers (suppressors) are mentioned and
>if we go by what Hollywood has taught us, they render a gun whisper
>quiet allowing Bad Guys to murder people even in the midst of a
>crowd with no-one the wiser;
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOQlhdzcrA
>
>This is of course nonsense, a silencer only decreases the sound to
>the point the gun is safe to shoot without ear plugs, a pistol fired
>with a silencer is still roughly as loud as a firecracker and further
>more, like CPLs, most states have legalized owning a silencer with
>no criminal repercussions.
>
>https://lodge-cdn.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/wp-content/uploads/ATG_Silencer-State-Map-1-1024x769.jpg
>
>States have also relaxed regulations for NFA weapons (i.e. machine
>guns and such) and last I heard, the only time a legally owned full-
>auto weapon was used in a crime, it was by a cop moonlighting as
>a bank robber.
>
>https://www.globalsistersreport.org/sites/default/files/stories/images/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-08%20at%2011.17.57%20PM.png
>
>Most states even allow switch-blades.
>
>https://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/sitrep-akti-knives-01.jpg
>
>Anti-gun fundies, their Democrat allies and co-conspirators in the
>Mainstream Media are lying thru their teeth.

States may have but NFA is Federal so it's like legalizing marijuana,
if the Feds want you they can still get you, and unlike pot dealers,
firearms dealers are Federally licensed.

With regard to suppressors, SEALs and other SpecOps use subsonic
rounds in conjunction with suppressors so that the major sound is the
working of the mechanism. I have heard the term "hush-puppy" applied
to such, referring to their utility in dealing with guard dogs, but I
suspect that that was something an author made up. I remember much
noise among the ignorant about how much more lethal subsonic rounds
are, based on the notion that the only thing SpecOps cares about is
lethality.

> J. Clarke
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > Anti-gun fundies, their Democrat allies and co-conspirators in the
> > Mainstream Media are lying thru their teeth.
>
> States may have but NFA is Federal so it's like legalizing marijuana,
> if the Feds want you they can still get you, and unlike pot dealers,
> firearms dealers are Federally licensed.

And in these cases, the states used to have _stricter_ regulations then
the Feds (including outright bans) but now these have been rolled back
with no crime issues.

The Federal process for NFA items consists of paying $200 and filing
the necessary paperwork and waiting for the bureaucrats to sign-off
on it. That's it.

https://thegunstudy.com/how-to/how-to-buy-a-suppressor-paperwork-included/

> With regard to suppressors, SEALs and other SpecOps use subsonic
> rounds in conjunction with suppressors so that the major sound is the
> working of the mechanism. I have heard the term "hush-puppy" applied
> to such, referring to their utility in dealing with guard dogs, but I
> suspect that that was something an author made up. I remember much
> noise among the ignorant about how much more lethal subsonic rounds
> are, based on the notion that the only thing SpecOps cares about is
> lethality.

Even the best suppressor isn't anywhere near whisper silent like
Hollywood portrays them, the shot can still be heard from quite a
distance away.

I've been to machine-gun shoots here in Michigan where suppressors
were also used and even a suppressed .22 can be heard from 100 yards
away. Fire one off in a home at night and everybody WILL wake up.

And their use by the military is to protect the operator's hearing and allow
them to easily communicate with each other and hear the enemy, along
with the effect of making it harder to locate the shooter at night by changing
the nature and apparent direction of the shot.

Hollywood has been lying to you.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 11:11:09 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 12:16:38 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:11:49 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
>> <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> Quadibloc
>> <snippo ranting>
>> >The ONLY purpose for registration is so the authorities can then
>> >round up the guns and imprison the law abiding owners when the
>> >gun control laws reach that point.
>> That's not true.
>>
>> They can also use the info to identify gun shops that sell guns to
>> criminals -- not occasionally (anybody can be fooled, from time to
>> time), but deliberately, repeatedly, intentionally.
>> >And they inevitably will reach that point, as there is no point when
>> >anti-gun fundies will ever say "that’s enough gun control".
>> That's true of most fanatics.
>>
>> Indeed, that attitude is one way to detect fanaticism.
>>
>> But, yes, some of the gun-control people do appear to be fanatics.
>> >> If that is over-optimistic, we may have to implement controls on
>> >> things like blacksmith's anvils or milling machines.
>> >
>> >Indeed and now with the advent of 3D printing tech, most of the
>> >gun components can be made in anyone’s garage.
>> >
>> >https://theconversation.com/the-legal-minefield-of-3d-printed-guns-71878
>> The last I read, such guns are good for one shot. And not very
>> accurate.
>>
>> IOW, they are the modern equivalent of the "zip guns" rumored to exist
>> in the 50s and 60s.
>>
>> Of course, as 3D printing improves, this will change. Indeed, for all
>> I know, it already has.
>
>Yes , it has, nearly a decade ago.
>https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_Concepts_1911_DMLS
>
>This was a printer demo piece, a fully functional 1911 handgun. The
>printer used at the time was way out of hobbyist price range.
>
>But it is NOT a 'zip gun'.

Well, of course it isn't.

But those made on more ... plebeian ... printers may still be
one-shots, /as/ zip-guns were said to be.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:54:17 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 11:11:09 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
><petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 12:16:38 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:11:49 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
>>> <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> Quadibloc
>>> <snippo ranting>
>>> >The ONLY purpose for registration is so the authorities can then
>>> >round up the guns and imprison the law abiding owners when the
>>> >gun control laws reach that point.
>>> That's not true.
>>>
>>> They can also use the info to identify gun shops that sell guns to
>>> criminals -- not occasionally (anybody can be fooled, from time to
>>> time), but deliberately, repeatedly, intentionally.
>>> >And they inevitably will reach that point, as there is no point when
>>> >anti-gun fundies will ever say "that’s enough gun control".
>>> That's true of most fanatics.
>>>
>>> Indeed, that attitude is one way to detect fanaticism.
>>>
>>> But, yes, some of the gun-control people do appear to be fanatics.
>>> >> If that is over-optimistic, we may have to implement controls on
>>> >> things like blacksmith's anvils or milling machines.
>>> >
>>> >Indeed and now with the advent of 3D printing tech, most of the
>>> >gun components can be made in anyone’s garage.
>>> >
>>> >https://theconversation.com/the-legal-minefield-of-3d-printed-guns-71878
>>> The last I read, such guns are good for one shot. And not very
>>> accurate.
>>>
>>> IOW, they are the modern equivalent of the "zip guns" rumored to exist
>>> in the 50s and 60s.
>>>
>>> Of course, as 3D printing improves, this will change. Indeed, for all
>>> I know, it already has.
>>
>>Yes , it has, nearly a decade ago.
>>https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_Concepts_1911_DMLS
>>
>>This was a printer demo piece, a fully functional 1911 handgun. The
>>printer used at the time was way out of hobbyist price range.
>>
>>But it is NOT a 'zip gun'.
>
>The one-shots are made to be undetectable.

Which is a related issue: they can be smuggled past security onto
airplanes.

Note that it really doesn't matter if a gun that can evade security
has a serial number or not, it's still a problem.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 15:52:20 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
<edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Paul S Person
>> > Ed Stasiak
>> >
>> > The ONLY purpose for registration is so the authorities can then
>> > round up the guns and imprison the law abiding owners when the
>> > gun control laws reach that point.
>>
>> That's not true.
>>
>> They can also use the info to identify gun shops that sell guns to
>> criminals -- not occasionally (anybody can be fooled, from time to
>> time), but deliberately, repeatedly, intentionally.
>
>There are 54,000 licensed gun dealers in the U.S. and only a tiny
>fraction of them commit any crimes, this is a non-issue because
>criminals don’t buy legal guns, they steal them or get them off the
>black market, where there are fuckloads of them floating around.

Actually, a report I read several years ago asserted that there was,
in each major metropolitan center, one gun shop that criminals
patronized. (Note possible oversimplification.)

The type of shop where the same 20-something female could come in and
buy a gun /every week for a year/ for cash and nobody would think
twice about it.

But you are correct: the number of bad 'uns is small, but criminals
are pursued even when the crimes they commit are quite rare. There is
no "rareness" exception to being prosecuted.

The point of the article, BTW, was that when the Feds announced an
effort to identify them and put them out of business, the NRA squealed
like a stuck pig. Well, they know their members best, I suppose.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 06:05:06 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
<edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>> pete...@gmail.com
>> > Ed Stasiak
>> >
>> > There are 54,000 licensed gun dealers in the U.S. and only a tiny
>> > fraction of them commit any crimes, this is a non-issue because
>> > criminals don’t buy legal guns, they steal them or get them off the
>> > black market, where there are fuckloads of them floating around.
>>
>> It has occurred to me that trying to understand he place have guns in American
>> culture by watching America popular media and what appears on the news is
>> a bit like trying to understand cars and their place in American culture by the
>> Fast and the Furious films.
>
>That's because the media's representation of guns is almost always
>wrong, either thru ignorance or malice.
>
>For example, up-thread silencers (suppressors) are mentioned and
>if we go by what Hollywood has taught us, they render a gun whisper
>quiet allowing Bad Guys to murder people even in the midst of a
>crowd with no-one the wiser;
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOQlhdzcrA
>
>This is of course nonsense, a silencer only decreases the sound to
>the point the gun is safe to shoot without ear plugs, a pistol fired
>with a silencer is still roughly as loud as a firecracker and further
>more, like CPLs, most states have legalized owning a silencer with
>no criminal repercussions.
>
>https://lodge-cdn.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/wp-content/uploads/ATG_Silencer-State-Map-1-1024x769.jpg
>
>States have also relaxed regulations for NFA weapons (i.e. machine
>guns and such) and last I heard, the only time a legally owned full-
>auto weapon was used in a crime, it was by a cop moonlighting as
>a bank robber.
>
>https://www.globalsistersreport.org/sites/default/files/stories/images/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-08%20at%2011.17.57%20PM.png
>
>Most states even allow switch-blades.
>
>https://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/sitrep-akti-knives-01.jpg
>
>Anti-gun fundies, their Democrat allies and co-conspirators in the
>Mainstream Media are lying thru their teeth.

Ah.

Like Republicans.

Well, sauce for the goose ...
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 06:22:48 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:08kedgppc31ok3kkupqmn7ha7kl5mv8t2j@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:11:49 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
>> <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Quadibloc
>>
>> <snippo ranting>
>>
>>>The ONLY purpose for registration is so the authorities can then
>>>round up the guns and imprison the law abiding owners when the
>>>gun control laws reach that point.
>>
>> That's not true.
>>
>> They can also use the info to identify gun shops that sell guns
>> to criminals -- not occasionally (anybody can be fooled, from
>> time to time), but deliberately, repeatedly, intentionally.
>
>No, they really can't. Faking the records is a less serious crime
>than the sale itself.

Depends on the records.

Cops look up gun serial numbers.

Cops find the /manufacturer/ sold all of those guns to a single store
(or business entity with multiple stores).

The store either has the guns, reported them stolen, or is in deep
doo-doo.

Case closed.

<bottalk and related drivel snipped>
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 09:56:07 -0700, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

>In article <7qkedg9mds94avhpg26qb49dhc8a1kij4u@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 09:57:01 -0700, Robert Woodward
>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <gl0cdgp5q28kg9otb07eghspnff33oq4gv@4ax.com>,
>> > Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:07:05 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 25/06/21 3:27 pm, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 8:08:41 PM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
>> >> >>> On 25/06/21 3:27 am, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >>>>> David Johnston
>> >> >>>>>> Ed Stasiak
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> What does that even mean?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> It means that that endemic social problems are never the product
>> >> >>>>> of a single causative factor.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Sure, I agree with that. What I disagree with, is that banning guns
>> >> >>>> and/or imposing harsh regulations on ALL Americans will have any
>> >> >>>> effect on this.
>> >> >>> I am not American and know little of your gun laws but don't you
>> >> >>> already
>> >> >>> have a form of gun control in that you have to have a licence to carry
>> >> >>> one in public? Isn't that a complete violation of your civil liberties
>> >> >>> if not also, yet again, the possible end of the free world?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Firearms laws in the US are mostly decided at the state level, with an
>> >> >> overlay of Federal regulation, and some county or city level
>> >> >> regulations.
>> >> >> They also distinguish between carrying long guns, carrying a handgun
>> >> >> openly, or carrying concealed.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> They vary greatly from place to place. In Hawaii or New York City, it's
>> >> >> extremely difficult to get a permit,
>> >> >
>> >> >Great. I will advise my clients to invade Hawaii and New York City where
>> >> >there will be a greater chance of success due to a lack of well armed
>> >> >freedom loving local civilian militia with pop guns.
>> >> >
>> >> > while many states have 'Constitutional
>> >> >> Carry', where any adult who is not otherwise forbidden from possessing
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> firearm
>> >> >> (convicted felon, on parole, or under a restraining order), can legally
>> >> >> carry
>> >> >> concealed without license or training.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_carry
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There's been a lot of recent anti gun angst that Texas is moving to
>> >> >> Constitutional
>> >> >> Carry, but there's little correlation between that and rates of gun
>> >> >> violence; the state
>> >> >> with the lowest gun violence rate in the country, Vermont, has had CC
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> a very long
>> >> >> time.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Im in MA, a pretty seriously anti gun state, but have a concealed carry
>> >> >> permit, obtained with some hoop jumping. That included a safety course,
>> >> >> providing references, and an interview with the chief of police.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I think the safety course (which included training on the laws of using
>> >> >> firearms
>> >> >> In MA) was extremely valuable.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Pt
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Thank you for your serious and informative answer which appears to
>> >> >confirm that all Americans are currently subject to some form of gun
>> >> >control. I am finding it difficult to take Ed seriously.
>> >>
>> >> Well, of course they are.
>> >>
>> >> If nothing else, they are usually subjected to:
>> >>
>> >> -- minimum age for unsupervised use requirements
>> >> -- hunting season requirements
>> >> -- hunting licence requirelement
>> >> -- bag limits
>> >> -- tag limits
>> >>
>> >> to list only the ones that come to mind.
>> >>
>> >> If you follow the logic of the anti-gun-law crowd to its logical
>> >> conclusion, these are /all/ unconstitutional.
>> >
>> >I can't see how hunting restrictions interfere with the 2nd Amendment.
>>
>> Because the 2nd Amendment clearly states that the right to keep and
>> bear arms /shall not be restricted/.
>>
>> And those are all restrictions.
>>
>
>So are laws against murder (note that homicide is not necessarily
>criminal).

Indeed. I missed an /entire category/ of restrictions.

Kind of like "religious freedom" as applied to the Thuggee Cult and
similar operations.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:r5ahdgh1vvhbqnkedo3onfda7dqmc0jqqb@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 06:22:48 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>news:08kedgppc31ok3kkupqmn7ha7kl5mv8t2j@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:11:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Quadibloc
>>>
>>> <snippo ranting>
>>>
>>>>The ONLY purpose for registration is so the authorities can
>>>>then round up the guns and imprison the law abiding owners
>>>>when the gun control laws reach that point.
>>>
>>> That's not true.
>>>
>>> They can also use the info to identify gun shops that sell
>>> guns to criminals -- not occasionally (anybody can be fooled,
>>> from time to time), but deliberately, repeatedly,
>>> intentionally.
>>
>>No, they really can't. Faking the records is a less serious
>>crime than the sale itself.
>
> Depends on the records.
>
> Cops look up gun serial numbers.
>
> Cops find the /manufacturer/ sold all of those guns to a single
> store (or business entity with multiple stores).
>
> The store either has the guns, reported them stolen, or is in
> deep doo-doo.
>
> Case closed.
>
> <bottalk and related drivel snipped>

"The buyers showed US ID, and each ID passed the background check.
We have the records to prove it. And since you run the backround
check system, so do you."

The thing about organized crime is that it's *organized.*

You, on the other hand, are an idiot.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

"edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote in
news:882857d0-d11b-48f3-9a93-5a699be4a759n@googlegroups.com:

>> pete...@gmail.com
>> > Ed Stasiak
>> >
>> > There are 54,000 licensed gun dealers in the U.S. and only a
>> > tiny fraction of them commit any crimes, this is a non-issue
>> > because criminals don’t buy legal guns, they steal them or
>> > get them off
> the
>> > black market, where there are fuckloads of them floating
>> > around.
>>
>> It has occurred to me that trying to understand he place have
>> guns in Ame
> rican
>> culture by watching America popular media and what appears on
>> the news is
>
>> a bit like trying to understand cars and their place in
>> American culture
> by the
>> Fast and the Furious films.
>
> That's because the media's representation of guns is almost
> always wrong, either thru ignorance or malice.
>
> For example, up-thread silencers (suppressors) are mentioned and
> if we go by what Hollywood has taught us, they render a gun
> whisper quiet allowing Bad Guys to murder people even in the
> midst of a crowd with no-one the wiser;
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOQlhdzcrA
>
> This is of course nonsense, a silencer only decreases the sound
> to the point the gun is safe to shoot without ear plugs, a
> pistol fired with a silencer is still roughly as loud as a
> firecracker and further more, like CPLs, most states have
> legalized owning a silencer with no criminal repercussions.

Except, of course, people get convicted under federal law on a
regular basis. I agree they shouldn't, but the Supreme Court does
not.

https://www.kake.com/story/40655193/2-kansas-men-collateral-damage-
in-gun-control-dispute

https://tinyurl.com/2jtbsk2z

> Anti-gun fundies, their Democrat allies and co-conspirators in
> the Mainstream Media are lying thru their teeth.
>
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

"edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote in
news:8202fa96-9333-4e8b-99f2-6b530fb96e43n@googlegroups.com:

>> J. Clarke
>> > Ed Stasiak
>> >
>> > Anti-gun fundies, their Democrat allies and co-conspirators
>> > in the Mainstream Media are lying thru their teeth.
>>
>> States may have but NFA is Federal so it's like legalizing
>> marijuana, if the Feds want you they can still get you, and
>> unlike pot dealers, firearms dealers are Federally licensed.
>
> And in these cases, the states used to have _stricter_
> regulations then the Feds (including outright bans) but now
> these have been rolled back with no crime issues.
>
> The Federal process for NFA items consists of paying $200 and
> filing the necessary paperwork and waiting for the bureaucrats
> to sign-off on it. That's it.
>
> https://thegunstudy.com/how-to/how-to-buy-a-suppressor-paperwork-
> included/
>
>> With regard to suppressors, SEALs and other SpecOps use
>> subsonic rounds in conjunction with suppressors so that the
>> major sound is the working of the mechanism. I have heard the
>> term "hush-puppy" applied to such, referring to their utility
>> in dealing with guard dogs, but I suspect that that was
>> something an author made up. I remember much noise among the
>> ignorant about how much more lethal subsonic rounds are, based
>> on the notion that the only thing SpecOps cares about is
>> lethality.
>
> Even the best suppressor isn't anywhere near whisper silent like
> Hollywood portrays them, the shot can still be heard from quite
> a distance away.

You are completely, utterly, *dagernously* wrong.

https://www.kake.com/story/40655193/2-kansas-men-collateral-damage-
in-gun-control-dispute

https://tinyurl.com/2jtbsk2z
>
> I've been to machine-gun shoots here in Michigan where
> suppressors were also used and even a suppressed .22 can be
> heard from 100 yards away. Fire one off in a home at night and
> everybody WILL wake up.

Machine-gun shoots are usually with legally own weapons. And
suppressors aren't illegal, they're illegal *without a tax stamp*
just like machineguns.
>
> And their use by the military is to protect the operator's
> hearing and allow them to easily communicate with each other and
> hear the enemy, along with the effect of making it harder to
> locate the shooter at night by changing the nature and apparent
> direction of the shot.
>
> Hollywood has been lying to you.
>
Hollywood likes to everyone about everything, including -
especially - themselves.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:q89hdghtgu3db45d7jf726vvme8hm8lmri@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:54:17 -0400, J. Clarke
> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 11:11:09 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
>><petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 12:16:38 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person
>>>wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:11:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> Quadibloc
>>>> <snippo ranting>
>>>> >The ONLY purpose for registration is so the authorities can
>>>> >then round up the guns and imprison the law abiding owners
>>>> >when the gun control laws reach that point.
>>>> That's not true.
>>>>
>>>> They can also use the info to identify gun shops that sell
>>>> guns to criminals -- not occasionally (anybody can be fooled,
>>>> from time to time), but deliberately, repeatedly,
>>>> intentionally.
>>>> >And they inevitably will reach that point, as there is no
>>>> >point when anti-gun fundies will ever say "that�s enough gun
>>>> >control".
>>>> That's true of most fanatics.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, that attitude is one way to detect fanaticism.
>>>>
>>>> But, yes, some of the gun-control people do appear to be
>>>> fanatics.
>>>> >> If that is over-optimistic, we may have to implement
>>>> >> controls on things like blacksmith's anvils or milling
>>>> >> machines.
>>>> >
>>>> >Indeed and now with the advent of 3D printing tech, most of
>>>> >the gun components can be made in anyone�s garage.
>>>> >
>>>> >https://theconversation.com/the-legal-minefield-of-3d-printed
>>>> >-guns-71878
>>>> The last I read, such guns are good for one shot. And not
>>>> very accurate.
>>>>
>>>> IOW, they are the modern equivalent of the "zip guns" rumored
>>>> to exist in the 50s and 60s.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, as 3D printing improves, this will change. Indeed,
>>>> for all I know, it already has.
>>>
>>>Yes , it has, nearly a decade ago.
>>>https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_Concepts_1911_DMLS
>>>
>>>This was a printer demo piece, a fully functional 1911 handgun.
>>>The printer used at the time was way out of hobbyist price
>>>range.
>>>
>>>But it is NOT a 'zip gun'.
>>
>>The one-shots are made to be undetectable.
>
> Which is a related issue: they can be smuggled past security
> onto airplanes.

Based on the testing done regularly by the TSA, so can regular
guns. With ease.

And nobody has come up with a working 3D printed plastic *bullet*
yet. If they can pick up the change in my pocket, they can pick up
a single bullet. (But again, the miss actual firearms far more
often than not. The *best* tests I've seen are that they miss 70%.)
>
> Note that it really doesn't matter if a gun that can evade
> security has a serial number or not, it's still a problem.

People who have tried to do bad things on board airplanes haven't
fared well recently. In fact, they are more likely to need the crew
to protect them from being killed by the other passengers than they
are to succeed.

But the problem still isn't the *gun*, it's the *criminal*.

Why are you so intent on protecting criminals?

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:ac9hdghm242ti8via748fe50uo3m55gos1@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 15:52:20 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
> <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Paul S Person
>>> > Ed Stasiak
>>> >
>>> > The ONLY purpose for registration is so the authorities can
>>> > then round up the guns and imprison the law abiding owners
>>> > when the gun control laws reach that point.
>>>
>>> That's not true.
>>>
>>> They can also use the info to identify gun shops that sell
>>> guns to criminals -- not occasionally (anybody can be fooled,
>>> from time to time), but deliberately, repeatedly,
>>> intentionally.
>>
>>There are 54,000 licensed gun dealers in the U.S. and only a
>>tiny fraction of them commit any crimes, this is a non-issue
>>because criminals don�t buy legal guns, they steal them or get
>>them off the black market, where there are fuckloads of them
>>floating around.
>
> Actually, a report I read several years ago asserted that there
> was, in each major metropolitan center, one gun shop that
> criminals patronized. (Note possible oversimplification.)
>
> The type of shop where the same 20-something female could come
> in and buy a gun /every week for a year/ for cash and nobody
> would think twice about it.

But, of course, you can't remember the source for that, or any
actual details. Only the bullshit propaganda. As you were trained
to do by your masters.
>
> But you are correct: the number of bad 'uns is small, but
> criminals are pursued even when the crimes they commit are quite
> rare. There is no "rareness" exception to being prosecuted.

There are, however, established rules for restricting
constitutional rights. The Supreme Court has ruled that the 2nd
amendment is an individual right, and the rules are very strict. In
fact, it's called the "strict scrutiny test."

"To pass strict scrutiny, the legislature must have passed the law
to further a "compelling governmental interest," and must have
narrowly tailored the law to achieve that interest."

Since is is thoroughly proven that gun control laws do not reduce
crime, the only way such laws can pass the strict scrutiny test is
if the people passing it *claim* that there is a compelling
government interest in disarming law-abiding citizens.
>
> The point of the article, BTW, was that when the Feds announced
> an effort to identify them and put them out of business, the NRA
> squealed like a stuck pig. Well, they know their members best, I
> suppose.

But, again, you can't remember where you saw it, or any actual
details. As usual. Was this article written by your uncle's
sister's hairdresser's best's friends pet goldfish?

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 6/18/2021 11:40 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
> news:c04d4d91-8830-4206-9ae5-e0931373dcaen@googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 11:01:59 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
>> wrote:
>>
>>> But, really, 18 people can be stabbed to death and there is no
>>> major outcry. Three get shot and its a national disaster.
>>
>> Guns make it a lot easier for people to kill people.
>
> Guns make it a lot easier to protect yourself. But, being a Canadian,
> you don't believe in self defense because you're not allowed to.

Hi there! What exactly do you think THIS "good guy with a gun" should
have done differently in order to still be alive?

<https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/27/arvada-shooting-guns-self-defense/>

I, rather than you, am the one who MIGHT be OK with there not existing
any cops TO shoot him, but then he might just get shot by ANOTHER "good
guy with a gun" who got to the scene a bit too late.

Also, as asked above, where does this end?

Should we have not scrapped the F-14s as they were retired, but instead
sold them to whichever would-be feudal lord wished to equip his air
force with them?

Should Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos have the option of buying a Gerald R.
Ford--or even "just" a Nimitz-Class--aircraft carrier to defend against
potential Federal overreach?

Not to mention that they have PLENTY of money to buy a nuclear bomb if
it weren't perfectly clear that it's at least frowned upon.

>>
>> So if people are killed by the use of guns, these deaths could
>> perhaps have been *prevented* if the killer had not had any
>> access to a gun. Of course there is an outcry when people die
>> as a result of government negligence.
>
> According to the science you don't believe in, guns are used 2-10
> times as often to prevent crime as to commit it.
> > You've been told that before. Clearly, you *want* to cause *more*
> violent crime.
>>
>> A ban on knives would create problems for law-abiding citizens;
>
> A ban on guns *has* caused problems for law-abiding citizens.
>

--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:17:08 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
<edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>> J. Clarke
>> > Ed Stasiak
>> >
>> > Anti-gun fundies, their Democrat allies and co-conspirators in the
>> > Mainstream Media are lying thru their teeth.
>>
>> States may have but NFA is Federal so it's like legalizing marijuana,
>> if the Feds want you they can still get you, and unlike pot dealers,
>> firearms dealers are Federally licensed.
>
>And in these cases, the states used to have _stricter_ regulations then
>the Feds (including outright bans) but now these have been rolled back
>with no crime issues.
>
>The Federal process for NFA items consists of paying $200 and filing
>the necessary paperwork and waiting for the bureaucrats to sign-off
>on it. That's it.
>
>https://thegunstudy.com/how-to/how-to-buy-a-suppressor-paperwork-included/
>
>> With regard to suppressors, SEALs and other SpecOps use subsonic
>> rounds in conjunction with suppressors so that the major sound is the
>> working of the mechanism. I have heard the term "hush-puppy" applied
>> to such, referring to their utility in dealing with guard dogs, but I
>> suspect that that was something an author made up. I remember much
>> noise among the ignorant about how much more lethal subsonic rounds
>> are, based on the notion that the only thing SpecOps cares about is
>> lethality.
>
>Even the best suppressor isn't anywhere near whisper silent like
>Hollywood portrays them, the shot can still be heard from quite a
>distance away.
>
>I've been to machine-gun shoots here in Michigan where suppressors
>were also used and even a suppressed .22 can be heard from 100 yards
>away. Fire one off in a home at night and everybody WILL wake up.
>
>And their use by the military is to protect the operator's hearing and allow
>them to easily communicate with each other and hear the enemy, along
>with the effect of making it harder to locate the shooter at night by changing
>the nature and apparent direction of the shot.
>
>Hollywood has been lying to you.

I think you're missing the point about subsonic rounds. A .22 is not
subsonic. A subsonic round produces no shock wave.

And what is your source for the notion that the military uses
suppressors to protect the hearing of soldiers? And if that is the
case why are they only used by SpecOps?

Chrysi Cat <chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote in
news:C83CI.863330$nn2.286629@fx48.iad:

> On 6/18/2021 11:40 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>> news:c04d4d91-8830-4206-9ae5-e0931373dcaen@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 11:01:59 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But, really, 18 people can be stabbed to death and there is
>>>> no major outcry. Three get shot and its a national disaster.
>>>
>>> Guns make it a lot easier for people to kill people.
>>
>> Guns make it a lot easier to protect yourself. But, being a
>> Canadian, you don't believe in self defense because you're not
>> allowed to.
>
> Hi there! What exactly do you think THIS "good guy with a gun"
> should have done differently in order to still be alive?
>
> <https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/27/arvada-shooting-guns-self-
> defense/>
>
> I, rather than you, am the one who MIGHT be OK with there not
> existing any cops TO shoot him, but then he might just get shot
> by ANOTHER "good guy with a gun" who got to the scene a bit too
> late.

The same thing I think about the scientific research that has
pretty conclusively proven that guns are used 2-10 times as often
to prevent crime as to commit it.

Ban guns, and you make the life and career of violent criminals
safter.

"Gun control is the premise that a woman who is found raped and
murdered in an alley is morally superior to that same woman
explaining to the cops how her attacker got those bullet holes in
his chest."

Why do *you*, personally, want to make violent criminals safer?
What vested personal interest do *you*, personally, have in making
it safer for rapists?
>
> Also, as asked above, where does this end?

Hopefully, with the left institutionalized in homes for the
mentally deranged, but that seems unlikely.

Come up with all the outlier tales you want, the facts remain
facts:

Guns are used 2-10 times as often to prevent crimes as to commit
them, and what you advocate is disarming the victims for the
specific purpose of making violent criminals safer.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
news:bjfhdgdhv3dc7590lftr5qp3rlgehns3mh@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:17:08 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
> <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> J. Clarke
>>> > Ed Stasiak
>>> >
>>> > Anti-gun fundies, their Democrat allies and co-conspirators
>>> > in the Mainstream Media are lying thru their teeth.
>>>
>>> States may have but NFA is Federal so it's like legalizing
>>> marijuana, if the Feds want you they can still get you, and
>>> unlike pot dealers, firearms dealers are Federally licensed.
>>
>>And in these cases, the states used to have _stricter_
>>regulations then the Feds (including outright bans) but now
>>these have been rolled back with no crime issues.
>>
>>The Federal process for NFA items consists of paying $200 and
>>filing the necessary paperwork and waiting for the bureaucrats
>>to sign-off on it. That's it.
>>
>>https://thegunstudy.com/how-to/how-to-buy-a-suppressor-paperwork-
>>included/
>>
>>> With regard to suppressors, SEALs and other SpecOps use
>>> subsonic rounds in conjunction with suppressors so that the
>>> major sound is the working of the mechanism. I have heard the
>>> term "hush-puppy" applied to such, referring to their utility
>>> in dealing with guard dogs, but I suspect that that was
>>> something an author made up. I remember much noise among the
>>> ignorant about how much more lethal subsonic rounds are, based
>>> on the notion that the only thing SpecOps cares about is
>>> lethality.
>>
>>Even the best suppressor isn't anywhere near whisper silent like
>>Hollywood portrays them, the shot can still be heard from quite
>>a distance away.
>>
>>I've been to machine-gun shoots here in Michigan where
>>suppressors were also used and even a suppressed .22 can be
>>heard from 100 yards away. Fire one off in a home at night and
>>everybody WILL wake up.
>>
>>And their use by the military is to protect the operator's
>>hearing and allow them to easily communicate with each other and
>>hear the enemy, along with the effect of making it harder to
>>locate the shooter at night by changing the nature and apparent
>>direction of the shot.
>>
>>Hollywood has been lying to you.
>
> I think you're missing the point about subsonic rounds. A .22
> is not subsonic. A subsonic round produces no shock wave.
>
> And what is your source for the notion that the military uses
> suppressors to protect the hearing of soldiers? And if that is
> the case why are they only used by SpecOps?
>
At this point, he's so completely full of shit that I'm beginning
to wonder if he's a plant from the gun grabber side trying to make
people who have actual facts look bad.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 7:05:08 AM UTC-6, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:

> For example, up-thread silencers (suppressors) are mentioned and
> if we go by what Hollywood has taught us, they render a gun whisper
> quiet allowing Bad Guys to murder people even in the midst of a
> crowd with no-one the wiser;

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOQlhdzcrA

> This is of course nonsense, a silencer only decreases the sound to
> the point the gun is safe to shoot without ear plugs, a pistol fired
> with a silencer is still roughly as loud as a firecracker and further
> more, like CPLs, most states have legalized owning a silencer with
> no criminal repercussions.

That explains New Zealand.

However, if silencers were legal, perhaps they could build better
silencers.

And, in fact, I remember reading a book about the OSS (in World
War II) which noted that one of the ingenious inventions they made
_was_ a silencer that not only rendered a gun whisper quiet, but also
even concealed the flash of light from its firing.

John Savard

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 12:08:37 PM UTC-6, Chrysi Cat wrote:

> Not to mention that they have PLENTY of money to buy a nuclear bomb if
> it weren't perfectly clear that it's at least frowned upon.

Couldn't they just buy the division of General Electric that makes them
for the U.S. arsenal?

John Savard

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:08:33 -0600, Chrysi Cat <chrysicat@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 6/18/2021 11:40 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>> news:c04d4d91-8830-4206-9ae5-e0931373dcaen@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 11:01:59 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But, really, 18 people can be stabbed to death and there is no
>>>> major outcry. Three get shot and its a national disaster.
>>>
>>> Guns make it a lot easier for people to kill people.
>>
>> Guns make it a lot easier to protect yourself. But, being a Canadian,
>> you don't believe in self defense because you're not allowed to.
>
>Hi there! What exactly do you think THIS "good guy with a gun" should
>have done differently in order to still be alive?
>
><https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/27/arvada-shooting-guns-self-defense/>
>
>I, rather than you, am the one who MIGHT be OK with there not existing
>any cops TO shoot him, but then he might just get shot by ANOTHER "good
>guy with a gun" who got to the scene a bit too late.
>
>Also, as asked above, where does this end?

In this case it ended with a cop, one of those people who gun control
advocates tell us can be trusted with weapons because of their
wonderful "training", shooting first and asking questions later, thus
killing the person who had actually stopped the active shooter. If he
had not been there and it was up to the cops how many people would
have died? Cops do not have a sterling record in such matters you
know.

As to what Johnny Hurley could have done, he could have put his own
firearm back into concealment once he had dealt with the shooter and
not picked up the shooter's firearm.

>Should we have not scrapped the F-14s as they were retired, but instead
>sold them to whichever would-be feudal lord wished to equip his air
>force with them?

The issue with F-14s is that a real feudal lord had a quantity of them
in service you know. And the feudal lord was not a US citizen or
friendly to the US. F-15s and F-16s do not get destroyed you know.
And there are people in the US who own Sukhoi and MiG fighter aircraft
that are just as capable.

>Should Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos have the option of buying a Gerald R.
>Ford--or even "just" a Nimitz-Class--aircraft carrier to defend against
>potential Federal overreach?

Why should they be any different from anybody else who wants one and
has the money to pay for it?

>Not to mention that they have PLENTY of money to buy a nuclear bomb if
>it weren't perfectly clear that it's at least frowned upon.
>
>>>
>>> So if people are killed by the use of guns, these deaths could
>>> perhaps have been *prevented* if the killer had not had any
>>> access to a gun. Of course there is an outcry when people die
>>> as a result of government negligence.
>>
>> According to the science you don't believe in, guns are used 2-10
>> times as often to prevent crime as to commit it.
>> > You've been told that before. Clearly, you *want* to cause *more*
>> violent crime.
>>>
>>> A ban on knives would create problems for law-abiding citizens;
>>
>> A ban on guns *has* caused problems for law-abiding citizens.
>>

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:14:45 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 7:05:08 AM UTC-6, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> For example, up-thread silencers (suppressors) are mentioned and
>> if we go by what Hollywood has taught us, they render a gun whisper
>> quiet allowing Bad Guys to murder people even in the midst of a
>> crowd with no-one the wiser;
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOQlhdzcrA
>
>> This is of course nonsense, a silencer only decreases the sound to
>> the point the gun is safe to shoot without ear plugs, a pistol fired
>> with a silencer is still roughly as loud as a firecracker and further
>> more, like CPLs, most states have legalized owning a silencer with
>> no criminal repercussions.
>
>That explains New Zealand.
>
>However, if silencers were legal, perhaps they could build better
>silencers.
>
>And, in fact, I remember reading a book about the OSS (in World
>War II) which noted that one of the ingenious inventions they made
>_was_ a silencer that not only rendered a gun whisper quiet, but also
>even concealed the flash of light from its firing.
>

The problem with making a silencer quiet is that the bullet, long
after it has left the silencer, trails a sonic boom. You can't fix
that with a silencer.

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:3d8c3363-c2a5-4b39-b7c1-f1573a1b093cn@googlegroups.com:

> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 7:05:08 AM UTC-6,
> edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> For example, up-thread silencers (suppressors) are mentioned
>> and if we go by what Hollywood has taught us, they render a gun
>> whisper quiet allowing Bad Guys to murder people even in the
>> midst of a crowd with no-one the wiser;
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOQlhdzcrA
>
>> This is of course nonsense, a silencer only decreases the sound
>> to the point the gun is safe to shoot without ear plugs, a
>> pistol fired with a silencer is still roughly as loud as a
>> firecracker and further more, like CPLs, most states have
>> legalized owning a silencer with no criminal repercussions.
>
> That explains New Zealand.
>
> However, if silencers were legal, perhaps they could build
> better silencers.

There's no such thing as a silencer. The proper term is suppressor.
And they do make better suppressors.
>
> And, in fact, I remember reading a book about the OSS (in World
> War II) which noted that one of the ingenious inventions they
> made _was_ a silencer that not only rendered a gun whisper
> quiet, but also even concealed the flash of light from its
> firing.
>
And, of course, you don't recall what the source was, or any of the
details.

The closest you get is a suppressor with subsonic ammunition, to
avoid the supersonic crack. Those are pretty quiet, especially with
the designs that have the suppressor built in by design, for small
caliber ammo (usually .22 LR).

Suppressors reduce the sounds of a gunshot (without masking the
fact that it *is* a gunshot in any way) by an average of 30-40 db.
Considering that even an unspressed .22 LR is well above the pain
threshold, but most firearms it's the difference between "permanent
hearing damage if you're not wearing protection" and "physically
painful if you're not wearing protection, but your hearing will -
eventually - return to normal."

As for flash suppressors, that is a separate function from noise
suppressors, but it's one that's nearly inherent to a noise
suppressor (since the actual function of a noise suppressor is to
redirect and slow down the muzzle flash).

You are, as usual, gobbling down the utter bullshit that Hollywood
spoon feeds you.

If you are interested in being less ignorant, there's a decent
overview here:

https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/silencer-guide-with-decibel-
level-testing/

https://tinyurl.com/t28ewfz9

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.