On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 2:35:39 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

> Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. Namely, those who
> advocate it want to control all the guns, so they can kill at will
> without fear of consequence.

While I think this statement is false on at least one level:

Most of the people advocating gun control are sincerely concerned about
mass shootings, and they see that these happen much less often in countries
with gun controls, and therefore they conclude it is likely an effective measure.

But that what you state might be the "real" goal of some sinister figures who
are leading or encouraging the movement... is at least possible.

Where there _is_ a genuine need for self-defense, concealed carry laws are indeed
likely to do more to reduce the kinds of crime that most people fear than any gun
control measures.

Thus, I would like to have both...

a concealed carry law for the sensible law-abiding citizen,

but restrictions on who can have a gun similar to your country's existing ones
for fully-automatic weapons to keep guns out of the hands of those who are
unsuited for them. Just without the $200 application fee.

But the real cause of the United States having so much more crime than some
other countries is, of course, the existence of a large group of people
experiencing inequality. A natioinal commitment to correct this problem,
however, is lacking.

John Savard

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 10:15:34 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:qnvmcghu36v1eicpcfhjbv5lv0hji2rbao@4ax.com:
>
>> And now it is being investigated as a criminal organization, and
>> gives off all the classic signs of an organization run for the
>> benefit of the leaders.
>>
>Or so claims the political appointee with a very overt agenda in New
>York State. If he claimed there are seven days in the week, I'd toss
>all my calandars under the assumption they're liberal propaganda.

It is my impression that a certain Bankruptcy Court judge in Texas
reached much the same conclusion when the NRA tried to declare
bankruptcy there to hide assets from the guy in New York.

BTW, I think the NRA /should/ relocate to Texas. It would be a much
better fit for them than New York.

Well, provided some part of it survives the current storm, anyway.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 07:43:29 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
<hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 3:01:59 AM UTC+10, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 05:21:48 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
>> <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> Jonathan
>> >>
>> >> Yet, republicans go on and on like the right
>> >> might evaporate tomorrow. It's called a
>> >> wedge issue, used only to rile up the
>> >> uninformed base, but has no basis in reality.
>> >
>> >Because the 2nd Amendment is continually under attack.
>> >
>> >Prior to the early 1980s, the NRA was strictly a hobbyist
>> >organization, they were forced to become politically active
>> >because of the ever more draconian gun control laws being
>> >passed at the time (despite these laws having no effect on
>> >crime).
>>
>> And now it is being investigated as a criminal organization, and gives
>> off all the classic signs of an organization run for the benefit of
>> the leaders.
>>
>> I don't like gun nuts; they are boring. But they deserve better than
>> to see the NRA self-destruct.
>>
>> >And everytime a Dem gets in the White House, they propose
>> >a whole raft of back-door (and up-front) gun bans, Biden did
>> >just that when he entered the race for President.
>> >
>> >https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/
>> >
>> >There is no point where anti-gun fundies will ever say;
>> >"that's enough gun control".
>>
>> Now /that/ I agree with.
>>
>> Not that there aren't a few restrictions (such as on "ghost guns" and
>> weapon shops that regularly supply local criminals) that might not
>> reasonably be applied.
>>
>> But, really, 18 people can be stabbed to death and there is no major
>> outcry. Three get shot and its a national disaster.
>
>Might have something to do with the fact that there's been 247 mass shootings in the USA so far in 2021

But only if you count the small ones that are /not/ by a nutter
shooting people for no discernable reason.

Thus obscuring the various types of incidents and inhibiting any
remediation efforts aimed at prevention. Because that might benefit
"them", and We Can't Have That.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 10:14:38 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>"edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:62488d91-7af7-4fff-b687-53ae4bdd31c7n@googlegroups.com:
>
>> There is no point where anti-gun fundies will ever say;
>> "that's enough gun control".
>>
>That's simply not true. "Enough gun control" is when they have all
>teh guns, and can kill anyone they want at any time for no reason
>without fear of any consequences. They've made that *very* clear.

Ah.

Texas.

Good point.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 09:57:23 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote in
>news:np-dnfBIVeorXlb9nZ2dnUU7-dHNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> On 6/17/2021 12:55 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>
>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and
>>> so could this one be, at least in theory.
>>>
>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>>> "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>>
>>
>> "...shall not be infringed" isn't ambiguous in the slightest.
>>
>Neither the Supreme Court's authority to interpret the Constitution
>and its amendments.
>
>At this point, dumbass, Alan Baker is making you look stupid.

Sadly, that is a low bar.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 18:18:52 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 1:49:29 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in
>> news:saim7e$rt3$1...@dont-email.me:
>> > On 2021-06-18 9:59 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> > wrote:
>> >> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> news:4c5034ad-bc9b-4c2c...@googlegroups.com:
>> >>
>> >>>> Alan Baker
>> >>>>> Lynn McGuire
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Texas is now the 21st Constitutional Carry State.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Let the carnage commence.
>> >>>
>> >>> We’ve been hearing the same thing ever since Florida
>> >>> introduce “shall issue” concealed carry back in 1987, yet
>> >>> the U.S. murder rate continues to go down despite over 19
>> >>> million Americans now carrying a concealed handgun.
>> >>
>> >> Except in places like New York City, where Democrats are in
>> >> charge, and wipe their ass with the Contitution, especially the
>> >> 2nd Amendment.
>> >>
>> >> There's shootings are up 70% since the pandemic started.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Not that you'll ever offer proof of that...
>> >
>> It's in the news every day. And you have *never* admitted when
>> proof has been offered. You *always* lie, literally *every*
>> *single* *time*.
>>
>> Go play your insane, childish games with somebody as stupid as you
>> are, retard. Your stance advocating for more violent crime makes
>> you, like Quaddie, literally a subhuman animal who should be put
>> down as a matter of public safety.
>
>Much as I hold my nose to support Terry, the stats are there.
>
>Shootings in NYC
>
>May 2018: 77
>May 2019: 61
>May 2020: 100
>May 2021: 173
>
>Sources:
>
>https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/p0604b/city-achieves-new-record-low-may-murder-shooting-incident-categories#/0
>
>https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/pr0603/nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-may-2021

But does this correlate to new Gun Laws?

Or is it possible that /something else/ is causing this?

Cabin fever from the pandemic, perhaps?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 17:00:44 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 6/18/2021 11:19 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 07:31:01 -0700, Alan Baker
>> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-06-18 7:27 a.m., Jay E. Morris wrote:
>>>> On 6/18/2021 12:35 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-06-17 7:32 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/17/2021 11:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and so could
>>>>>>> this one be, at least in theory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to "clarify" it,
>>>>>>> if that appears to be needed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which seems unlikely,
>>>>>>> I'll admit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Texas became the 21st Constitutional Carry State today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting
>>>>>> Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott signs permitless carry bill into law”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.texastribune.org/2021/06/16/texas-constitutional-carry-greg-abbott/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting
>>>>>> Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott on Wednesday signed the permitless
>>>>>> carry bill into law.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Texas is now the 21st Constitutional Carry State.  I thought that
>>>>>> this would never happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.nraila.org/articles/20210525/alabama-texas-beats-alabama-to-become-21st-constitutional-carry-state
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>
>>>>> Let the carnage commence.
>>>>
>>>> People said that in 1995 when concealed carry passed and were shown to
>>>> be full of shit. People said that in 2016 when the open carry bill
>>>> passed and were shown to be full of shit. People said that in every
>>>> state where permitless or constitutional carry passed and were shown to
>>>> be full of shit.
>>>>
>>>> Welcome to the club.
>>>
>>> Ask yourself what is going to happen when there is an active shooter,
>>> and then 6 other people take out their guns...
>>>
>>> ...and then the trigger-happy police show up.
>>
>> Myself, I'm waiting for them to decide that age limits are
>> unconstitional, and then start to arm grade-schoolers.
>>
>> Won't /that/ be fun!
>
>When I was in high school in Texas, half of the kids had rifles or
>shotguns inside their trucks out in the high school parking lot. That
>was over 40 years ago though.

I don't doubt it, and they were either old enough or had parental
permission (no doubt), but were they allowed to take them into the
school so they could shoot back if necessary?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 15:19:30 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:saj574$rka$3@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 6/18/2021 12:09 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Texas is the*twenty* *first* state to do this. That means
>>> there are*twenty* other states that have*already* done it,
>>> some of them decades ago. There's nothing*new* here.
>>> There's*decades* of data on how it turns out.
>>
>> Nevada and Vermont have always been Constitutional Carry states.
>> Not sure about the others.
>
>"Always been" means "has been this way for a *long* fucking time,
>with the predicted carnage" rather than "been this way for a shorter
>time without the predicted carnage."
>
>The left doesn't even *try* to lie convincingly any more. Not that
>they were ever very good at it.

Yes, the Republicans are /much/ better at it.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 12:16:03 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Friday, 18 June 2021 at 15:31:05 UTC+1, Alan Baker wrote:

[snip]

> > ...and then the trigger-happy police show up.
> Kind of like this story.
>
> <https://notalwaysright.com/loyalty-thy-name-is-dog/237505/>
>
> Local police collect a student from school and take him
> to his home. It turns out that a burglar got chased up a
> tree in the yard by the family dog - on his way /out/ of
> the house, so, good dog, but...
>
> The neighbour has called the police, and one officer goes
> to arrest the guy in the tree. The dog isn't on the same
> page and he chases the officer up the tree.
>
> The student is brought in just in time to prevent another
> police officer from shooting his dog.
>
> Tagged "Funny".

Wow. In a larger town, the cops would have shot the dog.

--
Kevin R

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 10:11:41 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:vkhpcg93pale3vuipm9gjvi23uslbkj2bo@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 21:32:43 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 6/17/2021 11:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>>
>>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and
>>>> so could this one be, at least in theory.
>>>>
>>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>>>> "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>>>>
>>>> And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which seems
>>>> unlikely, I'll admit.
>>>
>>>Texas became the 21st Constitutional Carry State today.
>>>
>>>“Texans can carry handguns without a license or training
>>>starting Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott signs permitless carry
>>>bill into law”
>>>
>>>https://www.texastribune.org/2021/06/16/texas-constitutional-carr
>>>y-greg-abbott/
>>>
>>>“Texans can carry handguns without a license or training
>>>starting Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott on Wednesday signed the
>>>permitless carry bill into law.”
>>>
>>>Texas is now the 21st Constitutional Carry State. I thought
>>>that this would never happen.
>>>
>>>https://www.nraila.org/articles/20210525/alabama-texas-beats-alab
>>>ama-to-become-21st-constitutional-carry-state
>>
>> Kinda makes you sorry the Usual Suspects kept pulling out their
>> favorite Gun Control Measures every time a shooting happened --
>> without checking to see if what they were proposing would have
>> in any way impeded that particular event.
>>
>> A State full of armed people whose Gov has stated he believes
>> should be free to do anything they like. Any bets he's under the
>> delusion that only White Republican Males have guns?
>>
>That Texas is the 21st state to do this means there's *twenty*
>otehr states that already have.
>
>Do you have any reason, other than your own insane hallucinations,
>that this time will turn out differently? Or are you so
>disconnected from reality that you're literally hallucinating a
>world in which those other 20 states have had mass carnage that
>simpely doesn't exist in the real world?
>
>The only places with rising murder rates these days are liberal
>paradises, like New York City, and Portland, where the authorities
>literally protect violent felons from any possible consequences,
>including prosecution.

I've read this stuff elsethread today.

Running out of material, are we?

Do the other 20 States have a Guv who stated that citizens of his
State should be able to do whatever they want?

Like going into Austin and shooting a bunch of people, for example?

This Guv is reaching the Duterte level of abominableness.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 22:34:42 -0700, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

>In article <XnsAD4D6470411E7taustingmail@85.12.62.232>,
> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>> news:rbvmcgh362gtsbee86tjvkm5scci71j4j4@4ax.com:
>>
>> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>> >>gives us the right to bear arms.
>> >
>> > It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and so
>> > could this one be, at least in theory.
>> >
>> > And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to "clarify"
>> > it, if that appears to be needed.
>> >
>> > And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which seems
>> > unlikely, I'll admit.
>>
>> A point he made later on in his post, in the part you snipped out.
>> And he's right. The odds of getting 2/3 of the states to agree to an
>> amendment that does not *expand* the right during our lifetimes is
>> zero.
>
>Terry, it takes 2/3rds of both the House of Representatives and the
>Senate to propose a constitutional amendment and3/4ths of the states to
>ratify it. And in this case, that is about as likely as the Sun rising
>in West.

Agreed.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On 6/18/2021 12:57 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote in
> news:np-dnfBIVeorXlb9nZ2dnUU7-dHNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> On 6/17/2021 12:55 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>
>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and
>>> so could this one be, at least in theory.
>>>
>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>>> "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>>
>>
>> "...shall not be infringed" isn't ambiguous in the slightest.
>>
> Neither the Supreme Court's authority to interpret the Constitution
> and its amendments.
>
> At this point, dumbass, Alan Baker is making you look stupid.
>

You two were saying...?

District of Columbia v. Heller
From Wikipedia,

U.S. Const. amend. II; D.C. Code §§ 7-2502.02(a)(4), 22–4504,
7–2507.02 District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008),
was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court ruling
that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution
protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms,
*unconnected with service in a militia*...

It was the first Supreme Court case to decide whether the
Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and
bear arms for self-defense or if the right was intended
for state militias.[2]

Because of the District of Columbia's status as a federal
enclave (it is not in any state), the decision did not
address the question of whether the Second Amendment's
protections are incorporated by the Due Process Clause
of the Fourteenth Amendment against the states.[3]
This point was addressed two years later by McDonald v.
City of Chicago (2010), in which it was found that
they are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 09:52:24 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:rbvmcgh362gtsbee86tjvkm5scci71j4j4@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>gives us the right to bear arms.
>>
>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and so
>> could this one be, at least in theory.
>>
>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to "clarify"
>> it, if that appears to be needed.
>>
>> And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which seems
>> unlikely, I'll admit.
>
>A point he made later on in his post, in the part you snipped out.
>And he's right. The odds of getting 2/3 of the states to agree to an
>amendment that does not *expand* the right during our lifetimes is
>zero.

Yes he did.

And yet his response was not to point that out.

How odd.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On 6/19/2021 12:41 PM, Jonathan wrote:
> On 6/18/2021 12:57 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote in
>> news:np-dnfBIVeorXlb9nZ2dnUU7-dHNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>
>>> On 6/17/2021 12:55 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>>
>>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and
>>>> so could this one be, at least in theory.
>>>>
>>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>>>> "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>>>
>>>
>>> "...shall not be infringed" isn't ambiguous in the slightest.
>>>
>> Neither the Supreme Court's authority to interpret the Constitution
>> and its amendments.
>>
>> At this point, dumbass, Alan Baker is making you look stupid.
>>
>
>
> You two were saying...?
>
>
> District of Columbia v. Heller
> From Wikipedia,
>
> U.S. Const. amend. II; D.C. Code §§ 7-2502.02(a)(4), 22–4504,
> 7–2507.02 District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008),
> was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court ruling
> that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution
> protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms,
> *unconnected with service in a militia*...
>
> It was the first Supreme Court case to decide whether the
> Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and
> bear arms for self-defense or if the right was intended
> for state militias.[2]
>
> Because of the District of Columbia's status as a federal
> enclave (it is not in any state), the decision did not
> address the question of whether the Second Amendment's
> protections are incorporated by the Due Process Clause
> of the Fourteenth Amendment against the states.[3]
> This point was addressed two years later by McDonald v.
> City of Chicago (2010), in which it was found that
> they are.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
>
>
>

And btw SCOTUS was a 5 - 4 conservative court at the time
it's now 6 - 3.

It'll be 20 or 30 years before any of the conservative
justices die or retire.

So what is your basis for concern the above decision
could be changed in the foreseeable future?

>
>
>

--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 08:16:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Saturday, June 19, 2021 at 7:55:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 23:38:51 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
>> <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>> >Here's a general answer:
>> ><https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2018/october/tough-laws-prevent-gun-deaths>
>> >- "“In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in 2016".
>
>> In other words you went from nothing to nothing. You didn't have a
>> problem that needed to be fixed but you fixed it anyway.
>
>Since every single human life is of immense value, they did, in fact, address a major and
>serious problem. The fact that some other countries have an even worse problem, but
>refuse to take action against it is not a valid criticism of Australia.

That they walked all over the civil liberties of their citizens is
valid criticism.

The US also experienced a marked decline in the incidence of fatal
shootings over the same time period, which in absolute numbers is
masked by a substantial population increase that did not occur in
Australia.

I'm sorry, but the Australians bragging about how they "fixed" their
"problem" is exactly that, bragging.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:36:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 12:16:03 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On Friday, 18 June 2021 at 15:31:05 UTC+1, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> > ...and then the trigger-happy police show up.
>> Kind of like this story.
>>
>> <https://notalwaysright.com/loyalty-thy-name-is-dog/237505/>
>>
>> Local police collect a student from school and take him
>> to his home. It turns out that a burglar got chased up a
>> tree in the yard by the family dog - on his way /out/ of
>> the house, so, good dog, but...
>>
>> The neighbour has called the police, and one officer goes
>> to arrest the guy in the tree. The dog isn't on the same
>> page and he chases the officer up the tree.
>>
>> The student is brought in just in time to prevent another
>> police officer from shooting his dog.
>>
>> Tagged "Funny".
>
>Wow. In a larger town, the cops would have shot the dog.

And if they were feds they'd have shot the kid too.

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:b17scgpligqogi8cnehj1lv1hpp3e2tqn2@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 15:19:30 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:saj574$rka$3@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 6/18/2021 12:09 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>>> wrote:
>>>> Texas is the*twenty* *first* state to do this. That means
>>>> there are*twenty* other states that have*already* done it,
>>>> some of them decades ago. There's nothing*new* here.
>>>> There's*decades* of data on how it turns out.
>>>
>>> Nevada and Vermont have always been Constitutional Carry
>>> states.
>>> Not sure about the others.
>>
>>"Always been" means "has been this way for a *long* fucking
>>time, with the predicted carnage" rather than "been this way for
>>a shorter time without the predicted carnage."
>>
>>The left doesn't even *try* to lie convincingly any more. Not
>>that they were ever very good at it.
>
> Yes, the Republicans are /much/ better at it.

The right has the advantage of the facts supporting teir claims.

The point remains: This is the twenty first state to do this, and
none of the other twenty have had the predicted carnage. You can,
and will, hallucinate otherwise, but that says far more about your
mental illness than it does about guns or gun laws.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2021 Jun 19, J. Clarke wrote
(in article<6a9scgd8qtfq244pvcfdacko5g2bf285d8@4ax.com>):

> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:36:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob<kevrob@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 12:16:03 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > > On Friday, 18 June 2021 at 15:31:05 UTC+1, Alan Baker wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > > ...and then the trigger-happy police show up.
> > > Kind of like this story.
> > >
> > > <https://notalwaysright.com/loyalty-thy-name-is-dog/237505/>
> > >
> > > Local police collect a student from school and take him
> > > to his home. It turns out that a burglar got chased up a
> > > tree in the yard by the family dog - on his way /out/ of
> > > the house, so, good dog, but...
> > >
> > > The neighbour has called the police, and one officer goes
> > > to arrest the guy in the tree. The dog isn't on the same
> > > page and he chases the officer up the tree.
> > >
> > > The student is brought in just in time to prevent another
> > > police officer from shooting his dog.
> > >
> > > Tagged "Funny".
> >
> > Wow. In a larger town, the cops would have shot the dog.
>
> And if they were feds they'd have shot the kid too.

only if the kid was black.

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:r57scg5ag0t1t6j7l44vtp50nhv6tk0868@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 10:11:41 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>news:vkhpcg93pale3vuipm9gjvi23uslbkj2bo@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 21:32:43 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 6/17/2021 11:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed,
>>>>> and so could this one be, at least in theory.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>>>>> "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which seems
>>>>> unlikely, I'll admit.
>>>>
>>>>Texas became the 21st Constitutional Carry State today.
>>>>
>>>>�Texans can carry handguns without a license or training
>>>>starting Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott signs permitless
>>>>carry bill into law�
>>>>
>>>>https://www.texastribune.org/2021/06/16/texas-constitutional-ca
>>>>rr y-greg-abbott/
>>>>
>>>>�Texans can carry handguns without a license or training
>>>>starting Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott on Wednesday signed
>>>>the permitless carry bill into law.�
>>>>
>>>>Texas is now the 21st Constitutional Carry State. I thought
>>>>that this would never happen.
>>>>
>>>>https://www.nraila.org/articles/20210525/alabama-texas-beats-al
>>>>ab ama-to-become-21st-constitutional-carry-state
>>>
>>> Kinda makes you sorry the Usual Suspects kept pulling out
>>> their favorite Gun Control Measures every time a shooting
>>> happened -- without checking to see if what they were
>>> proposing would have in any way impeded that particular event.
>>>
>>> A State full of armed people whose Gov has stated he believes
>>> should be free to do anything they like. Any bets he's under
>>> the delusion that only White Republican Males have guns?
>>>
>>That Texas is the 21st state to do this means there's *twenty*
>>otehr states that already have.
>>
>>Do you have any reason, other than your own insane
>>hallucinations, that this time will turn out differently? Or are
>>you so disconnected from reality that you're literally
>>hallucinating a world in which those other 20 states have had
>>mass carnage that simpely doesn't exist in the real world?
>>
>>The only places with rising murder rates these days are liberal
>>paradises, like New York City, and Portland, where the
>>authorities literally protect violent felons from any possible
>>consequences, including prosecution.
>
> I've read this stuff elsethread today.
>
> Running out of material, are we?

I find that when dealing with prfoundly stupid people who suffer
from hallucinations - like you - one has to repreat the most basic
facts over and over before they sink in. (More complicated than
basic facts are, of course, completely beyond your ability.)
>
> Do the other 20 States have a Guv who stated that citizens of
> his State should be able to do whatever they want?
>
> Like going into Austin and shooting a bunch of people, for
> example?
>
> This Guv is reaching the Duterte level of abominableness.

And yet, the facts remain: None of the states that have done this
have had the massive carnage predicted by the hallucinations of the
left.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote in
news:robertaw-DD3A05.22344218062021@news.individual.net:

> In article <XnsAD4D6470411E7taustingmail@85.12.62.232>,
> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>> news:rbvmcgh362gtsbee86tjvkm5scci71j4j4@4ax.com:
>>
>> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>> >>gives us the right to bear arms.
>> >
>> > It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and
>> > so could this one be, at least in theory.
>> >
>> > And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>> > "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>> >
>> > And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which seems
>> > unlikely, I'll admit.
>>
>> A point he made later on in his post, in the part you snipped
>> out. And he's right. The odds of getting 2/3 of the states to
>> agree to an amendment that does not *expand* the right during
>> our lifetimes is zero.
>
> Terry, it takes 2/3rds of both the House of Representatives and
> the Senate to propose a constitutional amendment and3/4ths of
> the states to ratify it. And in this case, that is about as
> likely as the Sun rising in West.
>
Which is to say, the odds of it happening are zero. As I said.

What is it with the left, anyway? Why do you feel that you *must*
argue with stuff you agree with? Behavior like that is what
convinces people that you're literally mentally ill.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:sg7scg9qris2oi72ct5bg0o7ob5cmga7t7@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 09:52:24 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>news:rbvmcgh362gtsbee86tjvkm5scci71j4j4@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>
>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and
>>> so could this one be, at least in theory.
>>>
>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>>> "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>>>
>>> And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which seems
>>> unlikely, I'll admit.
>>
>>A point he made later on in his post, in the part you snipped
>>out. And he's right. The odds of getting 2/3 of the states to
>>agree to an amendment that does not *expand* the right during
>>our lifetimes is zero.
>
> Yes he did.
>
> And yet his response was not to point that out.

Why would he point out what he's already said? I mean, clearly he's
not smart enough to realize that, being as stupid and crazy as you
are, repeating basic facts is necessary before they'll sink in.
>
> How odd.

Like you, he's an idiot with little interaction with reality. But
it was his turn to be the stopped clock.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:md6scg5h7ab8j6e22k7hr042cie2dgcdob@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 09:57:23 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote in
>>news:np-dnfBIVeorXlb9nZ2dnUU7-dHNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>
>>> On 6/17/2021 12:55 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>>
>>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and
>>>> so could this one be, at least in theory.
>>>>
>>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>>>> "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>>>
>>>
>>> "...shall not be infringed" isn't ambiguous in the slightest.
>>>
>>Neither the Supreme Court's authority to interpret the
>>Constitution and its amendments.
>>
>>At this point, dumbass, Alan Baker is making you look stupid.
>
> Sadly, that is a low bar.

So you're claiming Baker is very smart, thus meaning that looking
stupider than him is easy? That *is* what you're implying here.

Dumbass.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote in
news:DM6dnfBlbfW9g1P9nZ2dnUU7-SfNnZ2d@giganews.com:

> On 6/18/2021 12:57 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote in
>> news:np-dnfBIVeorXlb9nZ2dnUU7-dHNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>
>>> On 6/17/2021 12:55 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>>
>>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and
>>>> so could this one be, at least in theory.
>>>>
>>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>>>> "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>>>
>>>
>>> "...shall not be infringed" isn't ambiguous in the slightest.
>>>
>> Neither the Supreme Court's authority to interpret the
>> Constitution and its amendments.
>>
>> At this point, dumbass, Alan Baker is making you look stupid.
>>
>
>
> You two were saying...?
>
>
> District of Columbia v. Heller
> From Wikipedia,

You appear to believe that we disagree. This is because you are
*stupid*.

Nobody will be surprised by this revelation.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote in
news:FZqdnYb50PlOglP9nZ2dnUU7-cfNnZ2d@giganews.com:

> On 6/19/2021 12:41 PM, Jonathan wrote:
>> On 6/18/2021 12:57 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote in
>>> news:np-dnfBIVeorXlb9nZ2dnUU7-dHNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>
>>>> On 6/17/2021 12:55 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed,
>>>>> and so could this one be, at least in theory.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>>>>> "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "...shall not be infringed" isn't ambiguous in the slightest.
>>>>
>>> Neither the Supreme Court's authority to interpret the
>>> Constitution and its amendments.
>>>
>>> At this point, dumbass, Alan Baker is making you look stupid.
>>>
>>
>>
>> You two were saying...?
>>
>>
>> District of Columbia v. Heller
>> From Wikipedia,
>>
>> U.S. Const. amend. II; D.C. Code §§ 7-2502.02(a)(4),
>> 22–4504, 7–2507.02 District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S.
>> 570 (2008), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court
>> ruling that the Second Amendment to the United States
>> Constitution protects an individual's right to keep and bear
>> arms, *unconnected with service in a militia*...
>>
>> It was the first Supreme Court case to decide whether the
>> Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and
>> bear arms for self-defense or if the right was intended
>> for state militias.[2]
>>
>> Because of the District of Columbia's status as a federal
>> enclave (it is not in any state), the decision did not
>> address the question of whether the Second Amendment's
>> protections are incorporated by the Due Process Clause
>> of the Fourteenth Amendment against the states.[3]
>> This point was addressed two years later by McDonald v.
>> City of Chicago (2010), in which it was found that
>> they are.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> And btw SCOTUS was a 5 - 4 conservative court at the time
> it's now 6 - 3.
>
> It'll be 20 or 30 years before any of the conservative
> justices die or retire.
>
> So what is your basis for concern the above decision
> could be changed in the foreseeable future?

What is your basis for the hallucination that I ever claimed it
would be?

Dumbass.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

We may live to see the end of this thread.

But I'm getting up there..
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..