djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

> (Hal Heydt)
> Los Angeles used to be described as "Fifty suburbs in search of a
> city."

Yes, when I lived there in one of those suburbs -- Van Nuys. In 1947.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On 10/16/22 18:21, Mike Spencer wrote:
> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> Los Angeles used to be described as "Fifty suburbs in search of a
>> city."
>
> Yes, when I lived there in one of those suburbs -- Van Nuys. In 1947.
>
I lived in Downey, Norwalk, Downey again, and San Gabriel in the '60s.
And San Diego, but it wasn't really a suburb of LA. Still lots of orange
groves between LA and San Diego at the time. I mostly remember San
Gabriel. It was pretty nice for a little kid. A bit like the Our Gang
comedies, but just a bit... kids running all over the neighborhood,
walking to school, playing in the wholesale nursery behind the house.
And the guy who built the trains for Disneyland had a train that he ran
every once in a while on his couple of acres of property about 1/2 mile
away.

--
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer - Stellar Solutions (Definitely Retired)

On 10/15/2022 12:14 PM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:tid5tu$2fksl$2@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>>>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>>>>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> writes:
>>>>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of
>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses --
>>>>>>>>>> and the people left behind.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are
>>>>>>>>> basically five major routes out of the basin - US101 and
>>>>>>>>> I5 heading north, I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south
>>>>>>>>> to San Diego.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph
>>>>>>>> (often less than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>>>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.
>>>>>
>>>>> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
>>>>> 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.
>>>>
>>>> Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.
>>>
>>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on any
>>> metric that matters. At least LA cleaned up its air.
>>
>> You ain't ever been here have you ? I've been to LA several
>> times. The pollution is always worse than Houston. Of course,
>> I live outside the third outer ring which is about 60 miles
>> across.
>>
> LA's air is about as clean as it's been since they started keeping
> records. The price of that is gasoline that's $2/gallon more than
> anywhere else in the US (except Hawaii, where it's brought in by
> ship), and cars that cost thousands more, and the 2nd more business
> unfriendly business environment in the US (and it rivals New York).

Is it worth it ?

Plus 100% new electric cars by 2030 ?

Lynn

On 10/14/2022 3:09 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 19:15:04 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2022 6:44 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:47:29 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Winning" in Ukraine will be shortly followed by all dying in nuclear fire.
>>>
>>> Only if Russia wants that to happen to it.
>>>
>>> John Savard
>>
>> True that.
>
> Obviously what Putin most wants is an immediate surrender and a
> victory parade in Kiev.
>
> What he wants and what he's likely to get are two quite different
> things.
>
> What >I'm< worried about is that the outcome of this war is going to
> turn Russia into a Chinese satellite that dances at Mr Xi's command.

That victory parade might have Putin in a radiation suit in a
radiologicals proof vehicle.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 10/15/2022 12:14 PM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:tid5tu$2fksl$2@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

>>>>
>>>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on any
>>>> metric that matters. At least LA cleaned up its air.
>>>
>>> You ain't ever been here have you ? I've been to LA several
>>> times. The pollution is always worse than Houston. Of course,
>>> I live outside the third outer ring which is about 60 miles
>>> across.
>>>
>> LA's air is about as clean as it's been since they started keeping
>> records. The price of that is gasoline that's $2/gallon more than
>> anywhere else in the US (except Hawaii, where it's brought in by
>> ship), and cars that cost thousands more, and the 2nd more business
>> unfriendly business environment in the US (and it rivals New York).
>
>Is it worth it ?

Yes, in spades.

>
>Plus 100% new electric cars by 2030 ?

While that might put _you_ out of business, it will be better
for everyone else. Hands down.

Note that doesn't mean there won't be gasoline vehicles
for the forseeable future, until we run out of cheap oil.
(Ooops, we're already there, and it will never get much
less expensive that it is today), and there will always
be a need for chemical feedstocks based on petroleum;
it just won't be wasted by burning it.

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:til08k$3ie20$1@dont-email.me:

> On 10/15/2022 12:14 PM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:tid5tu$2fksl$2@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>>>>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>>>>>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> writes:
>>>>>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation
>>>>>>>>>>> of Los Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of
>>>>>>>>>>> buses -- and the people left behind.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are
>>>>>>>>>> basically five major routes out of the basin - US101
>>>>>>>>>> and I5 heading north, I15 and I10 heading east and I5
>>>>>>>>>> south to San Diego.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph
>>>>>>>>> (often less than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>>>>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was
>>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which
>>>>>> was 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on any
>>>> metric that matters. At least LA cleaned up its air.
>>>
>>> You ain't ever been here have you ? I've been to LA several
>>> times. The pollution is always worse than Houston. Of
>>> course, I live outside the third outer ring which is about 60
>>> miles across.
>>>
>> LA's air is about as clean as it's been since they started
>> keeping records. The price of that is gasoline that's $2/gallon
>> more than anywhere else in the US (except Hawaii, where it's
>> brought in by ship), and cars that cost thousands more, and the
>> 2nd more business unfriendly business environment in the US
>> (and it rivals New York).
>
> Is it worth it ?

That is a different question entirely, and the answer depends on
whom you ask.
>
> Plus 100% new electric cars by 2030 ?
>
While simultaneously blocking the construction of *any* new power
genration, even while the rolling blackouts are starting again.

Not gonna happen. Gray Davis found out the hard way what happens
when you fuck with California's cars.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
news:bUx3L.585370$Ny99.159304@fx16.iad:

> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>On 10/15/2022 12:14 PM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:tid5tu$2fksl$2@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on any
>>>>> metric that matters. At least LA cleaned up its air.
>>>>
>>>> You ain't ever been here have you ? I've been to LA several
>>>> times. The pollution is always worse than Houston. Of
>>>> course, I live outside the third outer ring which is about 60
>>>> miles across.
>>>>
>>> LA's air is about as clean as it's been since they started
>>> keeping records. The price of that is gasoline that's
>>> $2/gallon more than anywhere else in the US (except Hawaii,
>>> where it's brought in by ship), and cars that cost thousands
>>> more, and the 2nd more business unfriendly business
>>> environment in the US (and it rivals New York).
>>
>>Is it worth it ?
>
> Yes, in spades.

Just saw a study the other day on how many hours people have to
work at minimum wage per week to afford the average one bedroom
apparment. In Los Angenes, it was about 100 (per *week*). In San
Jose, it's over 140. Per *week*.

Whether or not it's worth it depends on whether or not you're rich
and narcissitic enough to be among the crowd who - literally - want
homeless people to just go away and die somewhre so they don't have
look at them.
>
>>
>>Plus 100% new electric cars by 2030 ?
>
> While that might put _you_ out of business, it will be better
> for everyone else. Hands down.

Not until the generating capacity catches up with the demand, and
the grid can distribute it.

Which isn't gonna happen in our lifetime.
>
> Note that doesn't mean there won't be gasoline vehicles
> for the forseeable future, until we run out of cheap oil.
> (Ooops, we're already there, and it will never get much
> less expensive that it is today),

Take your meds, son. You're hallucinating. Again.

Or, to put it another way, then why is OPEC cutting production
specifically to raise prices on crude?

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:til0ds$3ii9d$1@dont-email.me:

> On 10/14/2022 3:09 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 19:15:04 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/12/2022 6:44 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:47:29 PM UTC-6, Lynn
>>>> McGuire wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Winning" in Ukraine will be shortly followed by all dying
>>>>> in nuclear fire.
>>>>
>>>> Only if Russia wants that to happen to it.
>>>>
>>>> John Savard
>>>
>>> True that.
>>
>> Obviously what Putin most wants is an immediate surrender and a
>> victory parade in Kiev.
>>
>> What he wants and what he's likely to get are two quite
>> different things.
>>
>> What >I'm< worried about is that the outcome of this war is
>> going to turn Russia into a Chinese satellite that dances at Mr
>> Xi's command.
>
> That victory parade might have Putin in a radiation suit in a
> radiologicals proof vehicle.
>
Do they make radiologicals proof hearses?

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:til08k$3ie20$1@dont-email.me:
>

>Not gonna happen. Gray Davis found out the hard way what happens
>when you fuck with California's cars.

It was Pete Wilson who reduced temporarily the auto registration tax rate
with a sunset. That the sunset happened during the Davis
administration doesn't make it his fault.

Nor does that have anything to do with the 2030 mandate; by
2030 gas will be likely be over USD20/gal, at the rate it is going
and given the actual known viable reserves in conjunction
with the annual consumption increase in less developed countries.

For those who are interested in a physics-based look at energy:

https://escholarship.org/uc/energy_ambitions

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>news:bUx3L.585370$Ny99.159304@fx16.iad:
>
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>On 10/15/2022 12:14 PM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:tid5tu$2fksl$2@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on any
>>>>>> metric that matters. At least LA cleaned up its air.
>>>>>
>>>>> You ain't ever been here have you ? I've been to LA several
>>>>> times. The pollution is always worse than Houston. Of
>>>>> course, I live outside the third outer ring which is about 60
>>>>> miles across.
>>>>>
>>>> LA's air is about as clean as it's been since they started
>>>> keeping records. The price of that is gasoline that's
>>>> $2/gallon more than anywhere else in the US (except Hawaii,
>>>> where it's brought in by ship), and cars that cost thousands
>>>> more, and the 2nd more business unfriendly business
>>>> environment in the US (and it rivals New York).
>>>
>>>Is it worth it ?
>>
>> Yes, in spades.
>
>Just saw a study the other day on how many hours people have to
>work at minimum wage per week to afford the average one bedroom
>apparment. In Los Angenes, it was about 100 (per *week*). In San
>Jose, it's over 140. Per *week*.

Yes, there is a shortage of housing (or an excess of population
depending on what side of the argument you are on).

One cannot attribute that to energy prices, but rather zoning and
the desirability of California to immigration from other states
and countries. Fundamentally, the large population centers
are geographically limited (i.e. surrounded by mountains or
ocean on all sides), which limits the space available.

Add that to developers who much prefer to build luxury apartments/homes
rather than more affordable flats and starter homes, and you get the
current situation.

The mild climate is also attractive for those living rough, and
when cities like Las Vegas purchase bus tickets to LA and SF for
their homeless, it doesn't help matters any.

I don't have good answers on how to address this long term, do you?

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
news:xOB3L.306687$elEa.39932@fx09.iad:

> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:til08k$3ie20$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>
>>Not gonna happen. Gray Davis found out the hard way what happens
>>when you fuck with California's cars.
>
> It was Pete Wilson who reduced temporarily the auto registration
> tax rate with a sunset. That the sunset happened during the
> Davis administration doesn't make it his fault.

Davis made the decision to not extend it. And fault isn't relevant,
only blame. He was *perceived* to be at fault, and got handed his
ass for screwing with California's cars.
>
> Nor does that have anything to do with the 2030 mandate; by
> 2030 gas will be likely be over USD20/gal, at the rate it is
> going and given the actual known viable reserves in conjunction
> with the annual consumption increase in less developed
> countries.

Take your meds. Long before that, they're going to have to deal
with the 43%+ of voters who live in rentals (and being the poorer
voters, they are the Democrat base), who are already homeless or
headed that way, when rent prices skyrocket even faster than before
to pay for charging stations.

Not gonna happen.

>
> For those who are interested in a physics-based look at energy:
>
> https://escholarship.org/uc/energy_ambitions
>
Looks like the sort of thing that fits into your hallucinations.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
news:VUB3L.306690$elEa.20835@fx09.iad:

> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>news:bUx3L.585370$Ny99.159304@fx16.iad:
>>
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>On 10/15/2022 12:14 PM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:tid5tu$2fksl$2@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on
>>>>>>> any metric that matters. At least LA cleaned up its air.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You ain't ever been here have you ? I've been to LA
>>>>>> several times. The pollution is always worse than Houston.
>>>>>> Of course, I live outside the third outer ring which is
>>>>>> about 60 miles across.
>>>>>>
>>>>> LA's air is about as clean as it's been since they started
>>>>> keeping records. The price of that is gasoline that's
>>>>> $2/gallon more than anywhere else in the US (except Hawaii,
>>>>> where it's brought in by ship), and cars that cost thousands
>>>>> more, and the 2nd more business unfriendly business
>>>>> environment in the US (and it rivals New York).
>>>>
>>>>Is it worth it ?
>>>
>>> Yes, in spades.
>>
>>Just saw a study the other day on how many hours people have to
>>work at minimum wage per week to afford the average one bedroom
>>apparment. In Los Angenes, it was about 100 (per *week*). In San
>>Jose, it's over 140. Per *week*.
>
> Yes, there is a shortage of housing

Brought about by the insane policies of a Democratic supermajority
in both houses of the legislature.

>(or an excess of population
> depending on what side of the argument you are on).

Are you willing to *personally* herd them into the showers? You
certainly seem like the type.
>
> One cannot attribute that to energy prices, but rather zoning
> and the desirability of California to immigration from other
> states and countries.

One can attribute that to Democrats controlling the state. Which is
the same reason gasoline here costs $2/gallong more than the
national average.

> Fundamentally, the large population
> centers are geographically limited (i.e. surrounded by mountains
> or ocean on all sides), which limits the space available.

Plus insane policy making by fascist lefties who, so fare as I can
tell, want to literally destroy the middle class (or at least drive
them out of the state), and reserve California exclusively for the
obscenely wealthy and their indentured servants.
>
> Add that to developers who much prefer to build luxury
> apartments/homes rather than more affordable flats and starter
> homes,

And - this is the important part - are not only *allowed* to, but
*encouraged* to by zoning officials, because more expensive
properties produce more tax revenue (for them to filter to their
union masters).

>and you get the current situation.

Put the Democrats in charge and you get the current situation.
Because how we *got* the current situation.
>
> The mild climate is also attractive for those living rough, and
> when cities like Las Vegas purchase bus tickets to LA and SF for
> their homeless, it doesn't help matters any.

Certainly doesn't help. Neither does keeping the police from
arresting criminals, and all the other insane policies the fascist
left are so fond of.
>
> I don't have good answers on how to address this long term, do
> you?
>
Vote Republican. Or *anything* but Democrat.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2022-10-18 11:16, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
> news:VUB3L.306690$elEa.20835@fx09.iad:
>
>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>> news:bUx3L.585370$Ny99.159304@fx16.iad:
>>>
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 10/15/2022 12:14 PM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:tid5tu$2fksl$2@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on
>>>>>>>> any metric that matters. At least LA cleaned up its air.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You ain't ever been here have you ? I've been to LA
>>>>>>> several times. The pollution is always worse than Houston.
>>>>>>> Of course, I live outside the third outer ring which is
>>>>>>> about 60 miles across.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> LA's air is about as clean as it's been since they started
>>>>>> keeping records. The price of that is gasoline that's
>>>>>> $2/gallon more than anywhere else in the US (except Hawaii,
>>>>>> where it's brought in by ship), and cars that cost thousands
>>>>>> more, and the 2nd more business unfriendly business
>>>>>> environment in the US (and it rivals New York).
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it worth it ?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, in spades.
>>>
>>> Just saw a study the other day on how many hours people have to
>>> work at minimum wage per week to afford the average one bedroom
>>> apparment. In Los Angenes, it was about 100 (per *week*). In San
>>> Jose, it's over 140. Per *week*.
>>
>> Yes, there is a shortage of housing
>
> Brought about by the insane policies of a Democratic supermajority
> in both houses of the legislature.
>
>> (or an excess of population
>> depending on what side of the argument you are on).
>
> Are you willing to *personally* herd them into the showers? You
> certainly seem like the type.
>>
>> One cannot attribute that to energy prices, but rather zoning
>> and the desirability of California to immigration from other
>> states and countries.
>
> One can attribute that to Democrats controlling the state. Which is
> the same reason gasoline here costs $2/gallong more than the
> national average.
>
>> Fundamentally, the large population
>> centers are geographically limited (i.e. surrounded by mountains
>> or ocean on all sides), which limits the space available.
>
> Plus insane policy making by fascist lefties who, so fare as I can
> tell, want to literally destroy the middle class (or at least drive
> them out of the state), and reserve California exclusively for the
> obscenely wealthy and their indentured servants.
>>
>> Add that to developers who much prefer to build luxury
>> apartments/homes rather than more affordable flats and starter
>> homes,
>
> And - this is the important part - are not only *allowed* to, but
> *encouraged* to by zoning officials, because more expensive
> properties produce more tax revenue (for them to filter to their
> union masters).
>
>> and you get the current situation.
>
> Put the Democrats in charge and you get the current situation.
> Because how we *got* the current situation.
>>
>> The mild climate is also attractive for those living rough, and
>> when cities like Las Vegas purchase bus tickets to LA and SF for
>> their homeless, it doesn't help matters any.
>
> Certainly doesn't help. Neither does keeping the police from
> arresting criminals, and all the other insane policies the fascist
> left are so fond of.
>>
>> I don't have good answers on how to address this long term, do
>> you?
>>
> Vote Republican. Or *anything* but Democrat.
>

You really have drunk the koolaid...

On 10/18/2022 11:45 AM, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-10-18 11:16, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>> news:VUB3L.306690$elEa.20835@fx09.iad:
>>
>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>> news:bUx3L.585370$Ny99.159304@fx16.iad:
>>>>
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On 10/15/2022 12:14 PM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:tid5tu$2fksl$2@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on
>>>>>>>>> any metric that matters.  At least LA cleaned up its air.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You ain't ever been here have you ?  I've been to LA
>>>>>>>> several times.  The pollution is always worse than Houston.
>>>>>>>>   Of course, I live outside the third outer ring which is
>>>>>>>> about 60 miles across.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LA's air is about as clean as it's been since they started
>>>>>>> keeping records. The price of that is gasoline that's
>>>>>>> $2/gallon more than anywhere else in the US (except Hawaii,
>>>>>>> where it's brought in by ship), and cars that cost thousands
>>>>>>> more, and the 2nd more business unfriendly business
>>>>>>> environment in the US (and it rivals New York).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it worth it ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, in spades.
>>>>
>>>> Just saw a study the other day on how many hours people have to
>>>> work at minimum wage per week to afford the average one bedroom
>>>> apparment. In Los Angenes, it was about 100 (per *week*). In San
>>>> Jose, it's over 140. Per *week*.
>>>
>>> Yes, there is a shortage of housing
>>
>> Brought about by the insane policies of a Democratic supermajority
>> in both houses of the legislature.
>>
>>> (or an excess of population
>>> depending on what side of the argument you are on).
>>
>> Are you willing to *personally* herd them into the showers? You
>> certainly seem like the type.
>>>
>>> One cannot attribute that to energy prices, but rather zoning
>>> and the desirability of California to immigration from other
>>> states and countries.
>>
>> One can attribute that to Democrats controlling the state. Which is
>> the same reason gasoline here costs $2/gallong more than the
>> national average.
>>
There was a study recently that found that less than a dollar of the
difference if gas price between California and the rest of the country
was due to CA laws, taxes and regulations. The oil companies have
declined to explain the rest of the difference.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
>On 10/18/2022 11:45 AM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2022-10-18 11:16, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>> news:VUB3L.306690$elEa.20835@fx09.iad:

>>>>
>>>> One cannot attribute that to energy prices, but rather zoning
>>>> and the desirability of California to immigration from other
>>>> states and countries.
>>>
>>> One can attribute that to Democrats controlling the state. Which is
>>> the same reason gasoline here costs $2/gallong more than the
>>> national average.
>>>
>There was a study recently that found that less than a dollar of the
>difference if gas price between California and the rest of the country
>was due to CA laws, taxes and regulations. The oil companies have
>declined to explain the rest of the difference.

The last refinery was built in the state in 1980, subsequent to which
the state population has doubled (albeit average fuel economy
tripled).

There are currently several refineries 'idle', such as World
Energy's Paramount refinery (capacity 50,000 BBL[*]/day).

Many have closed (there used to be six in Bakersfield, down to 1 now).

One of the oldest (Phillips) was built in 1917 (139,000 BBL/day).

The Phillips Rodeo refinery is being converted to produce 800m gal/day
of renewable and sustainable diesel, gasoline and JET-A.

The Torrance refinery was built in 1907 (151,300 BBL/day).

Marathon in Martinez is idle (166,000 bbl/day capacity)
and will soon produce only renewable diesel.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/which-us-refineries-have-shut-since-global-pandemic-why-2022-06-17/

https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/californias-petroleum-market/californias-oil-refineries/california-oil
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_a_(na)_8OO_Count_a.htm

[*] For those have wondered, why Barrel is abbreviated BBL,
that's because the 42-gal barrels were originally colored
blue.

All that said, at their base, energy prices are driven by the global
oil market, and with the idle and shutdown refineries due to falling demand in 2020/1,
and the illegal russian occupation of "little russia",
domestically we have very little control of the price of oil; aside
from releasing from the strategic petroleum reserve, something that
politically plays but may not be fundamentally wise.

On Tuesday, October 18, 2022 at 12:16:36 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
> news:VUB3L.306690$elEa....@fx09.iad:

> >(or an excess of population
> > depending on what side of the argument you are on).

> Are you willing to *personally* herd them into the showers? You
> certainly seem like the type.

Now, just stop that nonsense.

The fact that there may be too many people around for whatever resources are
available is not something that ought to be ignored. It does not automatically
follow that if you can't increase the available resources, then the only other recourse
is to go around killing people.

As is well known, people have a tendency to die naturally of old age. Decreasing the
population, therefore, can be achieved simply by making fewer *new* people.

Of course, if the electoral consequences of taking _cars_ away from the people of
California are drastic, no doubt those of telling the people of California that they can't
have sex would be even worse.

Aren't we glad, then, that they invented The Pill?

John Savard

On 10/18/2022 1:01 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
>> On 10/18/2022 11:45 AM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2022-10-18 11:16, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>> news:VUB3L.306690$elEa.20835@fx09.iad:
>
>>>>>
>>>>> One cannot attribute that to energy prices, but rather zoning
>>>>> and the desirability of California to immigration from other
>>>>> states and countries.
>>>>
>>>> One can attribute that to Democrats controlling the state. Which is
>>>> the same reason gasoline here costs $2/gallong more than the
>>>> national average.
>>>>
>> There was a study recently that found that less than a dollar of the
>> difference if gas price between California and the rest of the country
>> was due to CA laws, taxes and regulations. The oil companies have
>> declined to explain the rest of the difference.
>
> The last refinery was built in the state in 1980, subsequent to which
> the state population has doubled (albeit average fuel economy
> tripled).
>
> There are currently several refineries 'idle', such as World
> Energy's Paramount refinery (capacity 50,000 BBL[*]/day).
>
> Many have closed (there used to be six in Bakersfield, down to 1 now).
>
> One of the oldest (Phillips) was built in 1917 (139,000 BBL/day).
>
> The Phillips Rodeo refinery is being converted to produce 800m gal/day
> of renewable and sustainable diesel, gasoline and JET-A.
>
> The Torrance refinery was built in 1907 (151,300 BBL/day).
>
> Marathon in Martinez is idle (166,000 bbl/day capacity)
> and will soon produce only renewable diesel.
>
> https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/which-us-refineries-have-shut-since-global-pandemic-why-2022-06-17/
>
> https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/californias-petroleum-market/californias-oil-refineries/california-oil
> https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_a_(na)_8OO_Count_a.htm
>
> [*] For those have wondered, why Barrel is abbreviated BBL,
> that's because the 42-gal barrels were originally colored
> blue.
>
> All that said, at their base, energy prices are driven by the global
> oil market, and with the idle and shutdown refineries due to falling demand in 2020/1,
> and the illegal russian occupation of "little russia",
> domestically we have very little control of the price of oil; aside
> from releasing from the strategic petroleum reserve, something that
> politically plays but may not be fundamentally wise.
>
Part of what the study found was that the refineries in California seem
to be idle or "down for maintenance" substantially more than refineries
in the rest of the country and there is no apparent reason for it.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in
news:timtdn$3pva1$3@dont-email.me:

> On 10/18/2022 11:45 AM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2022-10-18 11:16, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>> news:VUB3L.306690$elEa.20835@fx09.iad:
>>>
>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
>>>> writes:
>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>> news:bUx3L.585370$Ny99.159304@fx16.iad:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> On 10/15/2022 12:14 PM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:tid5tu$2fksl$2@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles,
>>>>>>>>>> on any metric that matters.  At least LA cleaned up
>>>>>>>>>> its air.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You ain't ever been here have you ?  I've been to LA
>>>>>>>>> several times.  The pollution is always worse than
>>>>>>>>> Houston.   Of course, I live outside the third outer
>>>>>>>>> ring which is about 60 miles across.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LA's air is about as clean as it's been since they
>>>>>>>> started keeping records. The price of that is gasoline
>>>>>>>> that's $2/gallon more than anywhere else in the US
>>>>>>>> (except Hawaii, where it's brought in by ship), and cars
>>>>>>>> that cost thousands more, and the 2nd more business
>>>>>>>> unfriendly business environment in the US (and it rivals
>>>>>>>> New York).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it worth it ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, in spades.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just saw a study the other day on how many hours people have
>>>>> to work at minimum wage per week to afford the average one
>>>>> bedroom apparment. In Los Angenes, it was about 100 (per
>>>>> *week*). In San Jose, it's over 140. Per *week*.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, there is a shortage of housing
>>>
>>> Brought about by the insane policies of a Democratic
>>> supermajority in both houses of the legislature.
>>>
>>>> (or an excess of population
>>>> depending on what side of the argument you are on).
>>>
>>> Are you willing to *personally* herd them into the showers?
>>> You certainly seem like the type.
>>>>
>>>> One cannot attribute that to energy prices, but rather zoning
>>>> and the desirability of California to immigration from other
>>>> states and countries.
>>>
>>> One can attribute that to Democrats controlling the state.
>>> Which is the same reason gasoline here costs $2/gallong more
>>> than the national average.
>>>
> There was a study recently that found that less than a dollar of
> the difference if gas price between California and the rest of
> the country was due to CA laws, taxes and regulations. The oil
> companies have declined to explain the rest of the difference.
>
And you can, of course, provide a link to that study you claim
exists. Sure you can. Sure you can. Can you even name who conducted
this mythical study?

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2022-10-18 14:58, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in
> news:timtdn$3pva1$3@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/18/2022 11:45 AM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2022-10-18 11:16, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>> news:VUB3L.306690$elEa.20835@fx09.iad:
>>>>
>>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
>>>>> writes:
>>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>>> news:bUx3L.585370$Ny99.159304@fx16.iad:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2022 12:14 PM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:tid5tu$2fksl$2@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles,
>>>>>>>>>>> on any metric that matters.  At least LA cleaned up
>>>>>>>>>>> its air.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You ain't ever been here have you ?  I've been to LA
>>>>>>>>>> several times.  The pollution is always worse than
>>>>>>>>>> Houston.   Of course, I live outside the third outer
>>>>>>>>>> ring which is about 60 miles across.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LA's air is about as clean as it's been since they
>>>>>>>>> started keeping records. The price of that is gasoline
>>>>>>>>> that's $2/gallon more than anywhere else in the US
>>>>>>>>> (except Hawaii, where it's brought in by ship), and cars
>>>>>>>>> that cost thousands more, and the 2nd more business
>>>>>>>>> unfriendly business environment in the US (and it rivals
>>>>>>>>> New York).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it worth it ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, in spades.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just saw a study the other day on how many hours people have
>>>>>> to work at minimum wage per week to afford the average one
>>>>>> bedroom apparment. In Los Angenes, it was about 100 (per
>>>>>> *week*). In San Jose, it's over 140. Per *week*.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, there is a shortage of housing
>>>>
>>>> Brought about by the insane policies of a Democratic
>>>> supermajority in both houses of the legislature.
>>>>
>>>>> (or an excess of population
>>>>> depending on what side of the argument you are on).
>>>>
>>>> Are you willing to *personally* herd them into the showers?
>>>> You certainly seem like the type.
>>>>>
>>>>> One cannot attribute that to energy prices, but rather zoning
>>>>> and the desirability of California to immigration from other
>>>>> states and countries.
>>>>
>>>> One can attribute that to Democrats controlling the state.
>>>> Which is the same reason gasoline here costs $2/gallong more
>>>> than the national average.
>>>>
>> There was a study recently that found that less than a dollar of
>> the difference if gas price between California and the rest of
>> the country was due to CA laws, taxes and regulations. The oil
>> companies have declined to explain the rest of the difference.
>>
> And you can, of course, provide a link to that study you claim
> exists. Sure you can. Sure you can. Can you even name who conducted
> this mythical study?
>

Why should he?

You never do...

....and then lie later and claim you did.

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
news:zCD3L.351441$9Yp5.286963@fx12.iad:

> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
>>On 10/18/2022 11:45 AM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2022-10-18 11:16, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>> news:VUB3L.306690$elEa.20835@fx09.iad:
>
>>>>>
>>>>> One cannot attribute that to energy prices, but rather
>>>>> zoning and the desirability of California to immigration
>>>>> from other states and countries.
>>>>
>>>> One can attribute that to Democrats controlling the state.
>>>> Which is the same reason gasoline here costs $2/gallong more
>>>> than the national average.
>>>>
>>There was a study recently that found that less than a dollar of
>>the difference if gas price between California and the rest of
>>the country was due to CA laws, taxes and regulations. The oil
>>companies have declined to explain the rest of the difference.
>
> The last refinery was built in the state in 1980, subsequent to
> which the state population has doubled (albeit average fuel
> economy tripled).
>
> There are currently several refineries 'idle', such as World
> Energy's Paramount refinery (capacity 50,000 BBL[*]/day).
>
> Many have closed (there used to be six in Bakersfield, down to 1
> now).
>
> One of the oldest (Phillips) was built in 1917 (139,000
> BBL/day).
>
> The Phillips Rodeo refinery is being converted to produce 800m
> gal/day of renewable and sustainable diesel, gasoline and JET-A.
>
> The Torrance refinery was built in 1907 (151,300 BBL/day).
>
> Marathon in Martinez is idle (166,000 bbl/day capacity)
> and will soon produce only renewable diesel.
>
> https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/which-us-refineries-have-
> shut-since-global-pandemic-why-2022-06-17/
>
> https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/californias
> -petroleum-market/californias-oil-refineries/california-oil
> https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_a_(na)_8OO_Count_a.htm
>
> [*] For those have wondered, why Barrel is abbreviated BBL,
> that's because the 42-gal barrels were originally colored
> blue.
>
> All that said, at their base, energy prices are driven by the
> global oil market, and with the idle and shutdown refineries due
> to falling demand in 2020/1, and the illegal russian occupation
> of "little russia", domestically we have very little control of
> the price of oil; aside from releasing from the strategic
> petroleum reserve, something that politically plays but may not
> be fundamentally wise.
>
>
In California, they're also driven by the the second highest gas tax
in the US, and the regulations requiring special blends that aren't
used anywhere else, and aren't made outisde of a handful of
refineries that specialize in it.

Then, of course, there's the environmental regulations that make it
obscenely expensive to operate a gas station (with brutal fines for,
well, pretty much *anything* that looks odd). Special pumps, special
undergroundt anks, six or seven figure toxic waste cleanups if
there's a leak, and all the usual anti-business crap that makes
California second only to New York as the most hostile to business in
the US.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 10/18/2022 12:27 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:til0ds$3ii9d$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/14/2022 3:09 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 19:15:04 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/2022 6:44 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:47:29 PM UTC-6, Lynn
>>>>> McGuire wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Winning" in Ukraine will be shortly followed by all dying
>>>>>> in nuclear fire.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only if Russia wants that to happen to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Savard
>>>>
>>>> True that.
>>>
>>> Obviously what Putin most wants is an immediate surrender and a
>>> victory parade in Kiev.
>>>
>>> What he wants and what he's likely to get are two quite
>>> different things.
>>>
>>> What >I'm< worried about is that the outcome of this war is
>>> going to turn Russia into a Chinese satellite that dances at Mr
>>> Xi's command.
>>
>> That victory parade might have Putin in a radiation suit in a
>> radiologicals proof vehicle.
>>
> Do they make radiologicals proof hearses?

Yes. They are Russian LAVs and tanks in Ukraine.

Lynn

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in
news:tin7b3$3qrv7$1@dont-email.me:

> On 10/18/2022 1:01 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
>>> On 10/18/2022 11:45 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2022-10-18 11:16, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>> news:VUB3L.306690$elEa.20835@fx09.iad:
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One cannot attribute that to energy prices, but rather
>>>>>> zoning and the desirability of California to immigration
>>>>>> from other states and countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> One can attribute that to Democrats controlling the state.
>>>>> Which is the same reason gasoline here costs $2/gallong more
>>>>> than the national average.
>>>>>
>>> There was a study recently that found that less than a dollar
>>> of the difference if gas price between California and the rest
>>> of the country was due to CA laws, taxes and regulations. The
>>> oil companies have declined to explain the rest of the
>>> difference.
>>
>> The last refinery was built in the state in 1980, subsequent to
>> which the state population has doubled (albeit average fuel
>> economy tripled).
>>
>> There are currently several refineries 'idle', such as World
>> Energy's Paramount refinery (capacity 50,000 BBL[*]/day).
>>
>> Many have closed (there used to be six in Bakersfield, down to
>> 1 now).
>>
>> One of the oldest (Phillips) was built in 1917 (139,000
>> BBL/day).
>>
>> The Phillips Rodeo refinery is being converted to produce 800m
>> gal/day of renewable and sustainable diesel, gasoline and
>> JET-A.
>>
>> The Torrance refinery was built in 1907 (151,300 BBL/day).
>>
>> Marathon in Martinez is idle (166,000 bbl/day capacity)
>> and will soon produce only renewable diesel.
>>
>> https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/which-us-refineries-have
>> -shut-since-global-pandemic-why-2022-06-17/
>>
>> https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california
>> s-petroleum-market/californias-oil-refineries/california-oil
>> https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_a_(na)_8OO_Count_a.htm
>>
>> [*] For those have wondered, why Barrel is abbreviated BBL,
>> that's because the 42-gal barrels were originally colored
>> blue.
>>
>> All that said, at their base, energy prices are driven by the
>> global oil market, and with the idle and shutdown refineries
>> due to falling demand in 2020/1, and the illegal russian
>> occupation of "little russia", domestically we have very little
>> control of the price of oil; aside from releasing from the
>> strategic petroleum reserve, something that politically plays
>> but may not be fundamentally wise.
>>
> Part of what the study found was that the refineries in
> California seem to be idle or "down for maintenance"
> substantially more than refineries in the rest of the country
> and there is no apparent reason for it.

Because they chose to ignore the regulatory requirements leading to
all that downtime.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2022-10-18 15:04, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
> news:zCD3L.351441$9Yp5.286963@fx12.iad:
>
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
>>> On 10/18/2022 11:45 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2022-10-18 11:16, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>> news:VUB3L.306690$elEa.20835@fx09.iad:
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One cannot attribute that to energy prices, but rather
>>>>>> zoning and the desirability of California to immigration
>>>>>> from other states and countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> One can attribute that to Democrats controlling the state.
>>>>> Which is the same reason gasoline here costs $2/gallong more
>>>>> than the national average.
>>>>>
>>> There was a study recently that found that less than a dollar of
>>> the difference if gas price between California and the rest of
>>> the country was due to CA laws, taxes and regulations. The oil
>>> companies have declined to explain the rest of the difference.
>>
>> The last refinery was built in the state in 1980, subsequent to
>> which the state population has doubled (albeit average fuel
>> economy tripled).
>>
>> There are currently several refineries 'idle', such as World
>> Energy's Paramount refinery (capacity 50,000 BBL[*]/day).
>>
>> Many have closed (there used to be six in Bakersfield, down to 1
>> now).
>>
>> One of the oldest (Phillips) was built in 1917 (139,000
>> BBL/day).
>>
>> The Phillips Rodeo refinery is being converted to produce 800m
>> gal/day of renewable and sustainable diesel, gasoline and JET-A.
>>
>> The Torrance refinery was built in 1907 (151,300 BBL/day).
>>
>> Marathon in Martinez is idle (166,000 bbl/day capacity)
>> and will soon produce only renewable diesel.
>>
>> https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/which-us-refineries-have-
>> shut-since-global-pandemic-why-2022-06-17/
>>
>> https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/californias
>> -petroleum-market/californias-oil-refineries/california-oil
>> https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_a_(na)_8OO_Count_a.htm
>>
>> [*] For those have wondered, why Barrel is abbreviated BBL,
>> that's because the 42-gal barrels were originally colored
>> blue.
>>
>> All that said, at their base, energy prices are driven by the
>> global oil market, and with the idle and shutdown refineries due
>> to falling demand in 2020/1, and the illegal russian occupation
>> of "little russia", domestically we have very little control of
>> the price of oil; aside from releasing from the strategic
>> petroleum reserve, something that politically plays but may not
>> be fundamentally wise.
>>
>>
> In California, they're also driven by the the second highest gas tax
> in the US, and the regulations requiring special blends that aren't
> used anywhere else, and aren't made outisde of a handful of
> refineries that specialize in it.

Cites, please!

>
> Then, of course, there's the environmental regulations that make it
> obscenely expensive to operate a gas station (with brutal fines for,
> well, pretty much *anything* that looks odd). Special pumps, special
> undergroundt anks, six or seven figure toxic waste cleanups if
> there's a leak, and all the usual anti-business crap that makes
> California second only to New York as the most hostile to business in
> the US.
>

Cites!

>

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:ce4423f8-9fe6-45f5-af84-ee4dfff34bc2n@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, October 18, 2022 at 12:16:36 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>> news:VUB3L.306690$elEa....@fx09.iad:
>
>> >(or an excess of population
>> > depending on what side of the argument you are on).
>
>> Are you willing to *personally* herd them into the showers? You
>> certainly seem like the type.
>
> Now, just stop that nonsense.

I wish you lefties would.
>
> The fact that there may be too many people around for whatever
> resources are available is not something that ought to be
> ignored. It does not automatically follow that if you can't
> increase the available resources, then the only other recourse
> is to go around killing people.

It's the only other recourse that lefties like you ever pursue.
>
> As is well known, people have a tendency to die naturally of old
> age. Decreasing the population, therefore, can be achieved
> simply by making fewer *new* people.

Which is yet another - typical of the left - form of genocide.
>
> Of course, if the electoral consequences of taking _cars_ away
> from the people of California are drastic, no doubt those of
> telling the people of California that they can't have sex would
> be even worse.
>
> Aren't we glad, then, that they invented The Pill?
>
It'd be more convincing if the people telling us we have to take
cold showers in the dark - like Al Gore - didn't live in mansions
with electric bills higher than my total income, flying around in
private jets (paid for with their family's tobacco money) to pat
each other on the back about how woke they are that their farts
don't smell.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:tin7vc$3qvbd$1@dont-email.me:

> On 10/18/2022 12:27 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:til0ds$3ii9d$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 10/14/2022 3:09 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 19:15:04 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/12/2022 6:44 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:47:29 PM UTC-6, Lynn
>>>>>> McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Winning" in Ukraine will be shortly followed by all dying
>>>>>>> in nuclear fire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only if Russia wants that to happen to it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Savard
>>>>>
>>>>> True that.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously what Putin most wants is an immediate surrender and
>>>> a victory parade in Kiev.
>>>>
>>>> What he wants and what he's likely to get are two quite
>>>> different things.
>>>>
>>>> What >I'm< worried about is that the outcome of this war is
>>>> going to turn Russia into a Chinese satellite that dances at
>>>> Mr Xi's command.
>>>
>>> That victory parade might have Putin in a radiation suit in a
>>> radiologicals proof vehicle.
>>>
>> Do they make radiologicals proof hearses?
>
> Yes. They are Russian LAVs and tanks in Ukraine.
>
Well, we wouldn't want the drivers in the funeral procession to
get irradiated, I guess.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.