On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 8:36:01 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:

> You are absolutely right Prof RK, this one subtle change has put the sh'er in a completely different BaHr. I am listing below both the original and the modified versions of the she'r in the respective baHrs.
> --------------------
> Original:
> baHr: "Khafiif" musaddas maKhbuun mahzuuf maqtuu
>
> 2* 1 2 2 / 1 2 1 2 / 2 2
> ap ni DeRh iiN/T kii ju dii/mas jid
> ki sii vii raa/ne meN ba naa/iye gaa
> --------------------
> Modified:
> baHr: "ramal" musaddas maKhbuun mahzuuf maqtuu
>
> 2* 1 2 2 / 1 1 2 2 / 2 2
> ap ni DeRh iiN/T ki jad dii/mas jid
> ki si vii raa/ne meN ban vaa/iye gaa
>
> *Interestingly, both of these baHrs allow the freedom for the first syllable to be either long or short.
>
> Prof RK, Thanks for another excellent lesson. Priceless.
***You are most welcome, ZS.
Now, here is an excellent follow-up on this excellent lesson.

jis tarteeb meN aap ne yeh do she'r likkhe haiN aur un ki baHroN ke naam bhi bataaye haiN to, chaliye, ham pahli baHr ko baHr A kah lete haiN aur duusri baHr ko baHr B. ab aap yeh do misr'e dekhiye jin meN maHz ratti bhar ka farq hai:

(i) kar ke beemaar davaa dii tuu ne

(ii) kar ke beemaar dii davaa tuu ne

You will note that the first misr'a is in baHr A and the second one in baHr B!!!

ab kahiye, kuchh baat hu'ii naa? :-)

R.K.***

patthar ke khuda, patthar ke sanam, patthar ke hi insaaN paaye haiN,
tum Shehr-e-Muhabbat kehte ho, hum jaan bacha kar aaye haiN... - Sudershan Faaqir

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 12:35:55 AM UTC-7, Mohit wrote:

> patthar ke khuda, patthar ke sanam, patthar ke hi insaaN paaye haiN,
> tum Shehr-e-Muhabbat kehte ho, hum jaan bacha kar aaye haiN... - Sudershan Faaqir

***
moR moR par bijlii lapkii, manzil manzil teer giray
mar mar kar is raah meN ham ne apnii jaan bachaa'ii hai
[RK Qais]
***

> jis tarteeb meN aap ne yeh do she'r likkhe haiN aur un ki baHroN ke naam bhi bataaye haiN to, chaliye, ham pahli baHr ko baHr A kah lete haiN aur duusri baHr ko baHr B. ab aap yeh do misr'e dekhiye jin meN maHz ratti bhar ka farq hai:
>
> (i) kar ke beemaar davaa dii tuu ne
>
> (ii) kar ke beemaar dii davaa tuu ne
>
> You will note that the first misr'a is in baHr A and the second one in baHr B!!!
>
> ab kahiye, kuchh baat hu'ii naa? :-)

> R.K.***

Absolutely brilliant examples Prof RK. Simple, subtle and right on the mark.

Thanks a bunch. Another great lesson.

________Zoya

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 2:35:55 AM UTC-5, Mohit wrote:

> patthar ke khuda, patthar ke sanam, patthar ke hi insaaN paaye haiN,
> tum Shehr-e-Muhabbat kehte ho, hum jaan bacha kar aaye haiN... - Sudershan Faakir

Mohit, it is such a relief to see you back in the forum. Thanks. I have been thinking about you and wanted to check on your welfare, but did not have the contact info. I hope you and your family are doing well under the circumstances all around you in Delhi.

der lagii aane meN tum ko, shukr hai phir bhii aaye to
aas ne dil kaa saath na chhoRaa, vaise ham ghabraaye to

Wishing the best for you and those around you,

_______Zoya

On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 at 16:05:40 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 12:35:55 AM UTC-7, Mohit wrote:
>
> > patthar ke khuda, patthar ke sanam, patthar ke hi insaaN paaye haiN,
> > tum Shehr-e-Muhabbat kehte ho, hum jaan bacha kar aaye haiN... - Sudershan Faaqir
> ***
> moR moR par bijlii lapkii, manzil manzil teer giray
> mar mar kar is raah meN ham ne apnii jaan bachaa'ii hai
> [RK Qais]
> ***

muqaddar meN yih likhaa hai kaTe gii 3umr mar mar kar
abhii se mar ga'e ham, dekhiye ab 3umr bhar kyaa ho

Nazm Tabatabaa'ii

Naseer

On Monday, 24 May 2021 at 19:15:05 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 2:12:37 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> > On Friday, 21 May 2021 at 02:06:37 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > > On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 4:26:10 PM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 23:43:25 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 7:39:50 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't recall the source where I had first read this Meer ghazal but this particular she'r had stayed with me. I always had some issue with this particular word. Oh, how I wish they would use zer-zabar-pesh in printed Urdu! And yes, I did double check it in Rekhta after posting, especially the Nagari version, and sure enough they had it written with a 1.5 'd' in Hindi too.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ***By 1.5 'd', I think, you mean a 'daal with tashdeed'. If so, I am prompted to say, "Rekhta vaaloN ki jai"! :-)***
> > >
> > > > > > Prof RK, I am owning this one and not trying to pass the buck. I am also admitting that once I had a hard time fitting 'jaddii' as 12, I should have realized that perhaps it was a slightly different word and branched out rather than forcing it 'as is' in the meter.
> > > > > R.K.***
> > > >
> > > > Raj Kumar SaaHib, even I know what a 1.5 "d" is! I am surprised someone with your vast Hindi and Devanagri knowledge has n't cottoned on;) It is half a "da" and a full "da" combination as in जद्दी.
> > > >
> > > > Naseer
> > > ***Huzuur, aap Khaaksaar ki kam-maa'igii se vaaqif nahiiN haiN. maiN ne apne daur-e-tadrees meN, Urdu 12 baras pRhii thi, Angrezi 9 baras, Punjabi ba-Haruuf Gur-mukhii 4 baras, Faarsi 2 baras aur Hindi ba-Huruuf Devanaagari 0 baras!
> > > goyaa, jo "maaRii-moTii" Hindi mujhe aati hai, voh maHz sunii-sunaa'ii hai. aur Devanagaari ke jo akshar mere palle paRte haiN, maHz ishtihaaraat ki ba-daulat yaa apni bahnoN ke Khutuut ki ba-daulat. agar mujhe lafz "jaddi" Devanaagari meN likhna paRay to mujhe kisi bahn-bhaa'ii ki madad leni paRe gi!
> > >
> > > To make matter clearer, my education in written Hindi is closely equivalent to my education in ilm-e-baHr-o-vazn. However, while in the latter I can sense the finest of subtleties, in the former I am totally clean.
> > >
> > > In any case, for better or for worse, we all have to play our game with the cards we have in hand.
> > >
> > > R.K.***
> > You are of course fully aware that my comment was meant in jest, Raj Kumar SaaHib.
> >
> > Now, please allow me to show you my cards so that we can deduce who has the upper/better hand!:-)
> >
> > Urdu - 6 years
> > Farsi - <1 year (and "skived"a lot of it!)
> > English - 4 years
> > Hindi - 0 years (knowledge of the Devanagri is "maaRii-moTii)
> > Punjabi- 0 years (Shahmukhi or Gurmukhi- Knowledge for the latter - "maaRii-moTii)
> > 3ilm-i-3aruuz - 0 years (knowledge- "sifr baTaa sifr". I know, mathematicians would say...."but this is undefined"!)
> >
> > Total = <11
> >
> > Your total is 27!:-) aap kaamil Hakiim haiN aur meraa Hisaab niim-Hakiim ko bhii nahiiN chhuutaa!;) shukr hai meraa majmu3ah saaRhe terah nahiiN banaa varnah aap ko ma3luum hii hai kih "niim Hakiim xatar-i-jaan" hotaa hai aur aap kii jaan ham sab ke liye jaan se bhii 3aziiz-tar hai!:-)
> >
> > Naseer
> ***itni ma'amuulii si ta'aliim aur aisi Ghair-ma'amuulii 'ilmiiyat?
> There must be a God ----- somewhere! :-)
>
> R.K.***

kahte haiN kih achchhe vaqtoN kii ta3liim achchhii hu'aa kartii thii jab ustaad ustaad the aur shaagird un ke qadr-daan. vaise bhii "peNDu'oN ko xvaah-maxvaah badnaam kiyaa gayaa hai. vuh itne bhii jaahil nahiiN hote jitnaa unheN samjhaa jaataa hai!:-)

Naseer

On Monday, 24 May 2021 at 19:07:43 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 5:08:00 PM UTC-7, GA wrote:
> > On Friday, 21 May 2021 at 02:26:51 UTC+1, Zoya wrote:
> > > On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 5:43:25 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Now that I have had a day to ponder over this, I have a comment and a question. I believe the main reason it didn't even occur to me that the word under discussion could be 'judii' is because I had never actually read this word until now. You know I have explored my fair share of Urdu poetry, classic as well as contemporary, but I have never come across 'judii'.
> > > 'judaa' and 'judaaii' of course, but never 'judii'.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > I have heard this sher as ‘apni deRh eent kii juRi (assembled) masjid, meaning the masjid assembled from a brick and a half.
> >
> > GhosnA
> ***All the PRINTED sources we have examined --- ReKhta, Naseer sahib's and mine --- spell this word with 'daal'; none spells it with "Re". So, I don't see any room for the word "juRii" here.
>
> Conclusion: is lafz ka "juRii" hona imkaan ku Huduud se baahar hai.
>
> R.K.***
Not that you need any consolation Raj Kumar SaaHib but my source even has a pesh over the daal and a Re is no where to be seen. At least three further kulliyaats that I have taken a look at, also have a pesh over the daal.

"juRii" while meaningful is still non-sensical.

Here is the entry in Urdu LuGhat when one searches under "DeRh iiNT"

ڈیڑھ اِینٹ کی مَسْجِد / اَلَگ / جُدا / جُدی بنانا

DeRh iiNT kii masjid alag/judaa/judii banaanaa

For reference, Miir's shi3r under discussion (1810) is provided, "judii" carrying a pesh on the daal.

ahl-i-ka3bah ko tanaffur, mujh se bezaar ahl-i-dair
ab judaa DeRh iiNT kii masjid banaayaa chaahiye

From diivaan-i-Rind (1832)

in idaaroN meN baa-hamii ittiHaad aur irtibaat nahiiN hai. har ek ne apnii DeRh iiNT kii masjid alag banaa rakhii hai.

xutbaat-i-Abdul Haq 1936

Naseer

Hello Mam,
it was tough being in Delhi and seeing so many people dying though I am fine and the family is safe but too many people around me went away... and it has impacted me forever I believe. I did my bit to help anyone I could with the help of friends and I hope I was successful, I can't forget what happened around me, it was just way beyond I could handle emotionally. Now things appear to be limping back to the normalcy here in my beloved city. As Meer once wrote

dilli jo ek shehar tha aalam meiN iNtekhaab,
rehte the jahaN muntakhib hi rozgaar ke,
usko falaq ne loot ke paamaal kar diya,
hum rehne wale haiN usi ujde dayar ke...

PS:
( the rekhta says it is barbad instead of paamaal, i remember hearing it paamaal from a learned man few years ago, as I used it in my documentary on old delhi as well )

> Mohit, it is such a relief to see you back in the forum. Thanks. I have been thinking about you and wanted to check on your welfare, but did not have the contact info. I hope you and your family are doing well under the circumstances all around you in Delhi.
>
> der lagii aane meN tum ko, shukr hai phir bhii aaye to
> aas ne dil kaa saath na chhoRaa, vaise ham ghabraaye to
>
> Wishing the best for you and those around you,
>
> _______Zoya

Hello Naseer Sir, Qais sir

hath rakh kar jo wo poochhe dil-e-betaab ka haal,
ho bhi aaraam to keh dooN mujhe aaraam nahiN... - Daagh

> > moR moR par bijlii lapkii, manzil manzil teer giray
> > mar mar kar is raah meN ham ne apnii jaan bachaa'ii hai
> > [RK Qais]
> > ***
> muqaddar meN yih likhaa hai kaTe gii 3umr mar mar kar
> abhii se mar ga'e ham, dekhiye ab 3umr bhar kyaa ho
>
> Nazm Tabatabaa'ii
>
> Naseer

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-5, Mohit wrote:
> Hello Mam,
> it was tough being in Delhi and seeing so many people dying though I am fine and the family is safe but too many people around me went away... and it has impacted me forever I believe. I did my bit to help anyone I could with the help of friends and I hope I was successful, I can't forget what happened around me, it was just way beyond I could handle emotionally. Now things appear to be limping back to the normalcy here in my beloved city.

Mohit, It is a relief to know that you and the family are safe. I can not even begin to imagine what you must have gone through having witnessed first hand the devastation all around you and actually losing people in this manner. Just watching the images and listening to the details from friends and relatives going through it has effected me tremendously, but it can be nowhere near the emotional impact that you are experiencing.

It is admirable that you and your friends were able to help others in such trying times. These acts of kindness will bring you peace and solace in the the long run. Bless you.

As Meer once wrote
>
> dilli jo ek shehar tha aalam meiN iNtekhaab,
> rehte the jahaN muntakhib hi rozgaar ke,
> usko falaq ne loot ke paamaal kar diya,
> hum rehne wale haiN usi ujde dayar ke...

So apt. Heart breaking.

Reminds me of this she'r by JaaN Nisaar Akhtar:

Dillii kahaaN gayiiN tire kuuchoN ki raunqeN
galioN se sar jhukaa ke guzarne lagaa huuN maiN

I hope that the worst is over now, and the situation will keep on improving.. Please take care of your physical and emotional health, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your loved ones.

Try to stay in touch,

_________Zoya

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 11:31:12 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> On Monday, 24 May 2021 at 19:07:43 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 5:08:00 PM UTC-7, GA wrote:
> > > On Friday, 21 May 2021 at 02:26:51 UTC+1, Zoya wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 5:43:25 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Now that I have had a day to ponder over this, I have a comment and a question. I believe the main reason it didn't even occur to me that the word under discussion could be 'judii' is because I had never actually read this word until now. You know I have explored my fair share of Urdu poetry, classic as well as contemporary, but I have never come across 'judii'.
> > > > 'judaa' and 'judaaii' of course, but never 'judii'.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I have heard this sher as ‘apni deRh eent kii juRi (assembled) masjid, meaning the masjid assembled from a brick and a half.
> > >
> > > GhosnA
> > ***All the PRINTED sources we have examined --- ReKhta, Naseer sahib's and mine --- spell this word with 'daal'; none spells it with "Re". So, I don't see any room for the word "juRii" here.
> >
> > Conclusion: is lafz ka "juRii" hona imkaan ku Huduud se baahar hai.
> >
> > R.K.***

------------------

> Not that you need any consolation Raj Kumar SaaHib but my source even has a pesh over the daal and a Re is no where to be seen. At least three further kulliyaats that I have taken a look at, also have a pesh over the daal.
>
> "juRii", while meaningful, is still non-sensical.

***yeh bhi Khair guzrii, janaab-e-man, k is zimn meN lafz "juRii" ko qat'an maqaam na mil paayaa, varna voh she'r jo maiN ne ZS ki nazr kiyaa thaa, namely,

tuu sab se alag, sab se judii, sab se anokhii
lagtii hai mujhe Qais ke she'roN ki taraH tuu

ka kyaa bantaa? yihii naa k

tuu sab se alag, sab se juRii, sab se -------- ? sab se 'alag' aur ab se 'juRii'???

kyaa be-tukii bak raho ho, Qais miyaaN? hamaari maano to, ba-qaul-e-Faraaz,

"shaa'irii chhoR ke ab bojh uThaane lag jaa'o!"

samajh gaye naa?

samajh gayaa jii.***
> Here is the entry in Urdu LuGhat when one searches under "DeRh iiNT"
>
> ڈیڑھ اِینٹ کی مَسْجِد / اَلَگ / جُدا / جُدی بنانا
>
> DeRh iiNT kii masjid alag/judaa/judii banaanaa
>
> For reference, Miir's shi3r under discussion (1810) is provided, "judii" carrying a pesh on the daal.
>
> ahl-i-ka3bah ko tanaffur, mujh se bezaar ahl-i-dair
> ab judaa DeRh iiNT kii masjid banaayaa chaahiye
>
> From diivaan-i-Rind (1832)
>
> in idaaroN meN baa-hamii ittiHaad aur irtibaat nahiiN hai. har ek ne apnii DeRh iiNT kii masjid alag banaa rakhii hai.
>
> xutbaat-i-Abdul Haq 1936

***waah, waah! yeh hu'iiN na aihl-e-uluum ki baateN; goyaa,

ham voh haiN k --- "jo bhi parda(h) nazar aayaa, use sarkaa ke rahe"! ;-)
aap KA hiteshii, Raj Kumar***

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:51:18 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
>
> ***yeh bhi Khair guzrii, janaab-e-man, k is zimn meN lafz "juRii" ko qat'an maqaam na mil paayaa, varna voh she'r jo maiN ne ZS ki nazr kiyaa thaa, namely,

> tuu sab se alag, sab se judii, sab se anokhii
> lagtii hai mujhe Qais ke she'roN ki taraH tuu

Raj uncle,

yeh sh'er aap ne Khaas meri nazr kiyaa tha? mujhe lagaa to kuchh aisaa hii thaa, thanks for the confirmation. What a lovely compliment. shukriyah! :-))

> ka kyaa bantaa? yihii naa k
>
> tuu sab se alag, sab se juRii, sab se -------- ? sab se 'alag' aur ab se 'juRii'???

Well, I am putting a positive spin on this variation too. I am reading it as 'connected' with everyone, but (gracefuly) 'distant' and still very 'unique'. Sounds like someone you may know Prof RK. :-))

Now, please may we move past 'DeRh iiNT"? Enough flogging!

______Zoya

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 9:55:43 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:51:18 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> >
> > ***yeh bhi Khair guzrii, janaab-e-man, k is zimn meN lafz "juRii" ko qat'an maqaam na mil paayaa, varna voh she'r jo maiN ne ZS ki nazr kiyaa thaa, namely,
>
> > tuu sab se alag, sab se judii, sab se anokhii
> > lagtii hai mujhe Qais ke she'roN ki taraH tuu
> Raj uncle,
>
> yeh sh'er aap ne Khaas meri nazr kiyaa tha? mujhe lagaa to kuchh aisaa hii thaa, thanks for the confirmation. What a lovely compliment. shukriyah! :-))
> > ka kyaa bantaa? yihii naa k
> >
> > tuu sab se alag, sab se juRii, sab se -------- ? sab se 'alag' aur ab se 'juRii'???

> Well, I am putting a positive spin on this variation too. I am reading it as 'connected' with everyone, but (gracefuly) 'distant' and still very 'unique'. Sounds like someone you may know, Prof RK. :-))
>

***I was well aware of this positive spin, Zoya Rani, but left it 'under cover' for you to uncover! :)

vaise, aap se pahle, Maulana Haali ne bhi kuchh aisi hi 'positive spin' ka zikr kiyaa tha:

baatoN meN tirii, suufii, gar nuur-e-safaa hotaa
tuu sab se milaa rahtaa aur sab se judaa hotaa!

hai naa vuhii baat jo aap ne kahii hai? :-)

aur is zimn meN aap Firaq sahib ka yeh she'r bhi dekhiye:

shaadii ki aNjuman ho k maatam ki bazm ho
shaamil haiN ik adaa-e-kinaaraa-kashii se ham!***

>
> Now, please may we move past 'DeRh iiNT"? Enough flogging!
>
***tamhiid hi se aap to bezaar ho gaye
sun_naa jo chaahiye, voh sunaayaa nahiiN hunuuz! :-)

R.K.***

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 12:48:51 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:

> ***I was well aware of this positive spin, Zoya Rani, but left it 'under cover' for you to uncover! :)

aaKhir aap ki shaagird huuN Prof RK, thoRaa bahut 'under cover' kaam to ab maiN bhi siikh gayii huuN. :)

> vaise, aap se pahle, Maulana Haali ne bhi kuchh aisi hi 'positive spin' ka zikr kiyaa tha:
>
> baatoN meN tirii, suufii, gar nuur-e-safaa hotaa
> tuu sab se milaa rahtaa aur sab se judaa hotaa!
>
> hai naa vuhii baat jo aap ne kahii hai? :-)
>
> aur is zimn meN aap Firaq sahib ka yeh she'r bhi dekhiye:
>
> shaadii ki aNjuman ho k maatam ki bazm ho
> shaamil haiN ik adaa-e-kinaaraa-kashii se ham!***

bahut Khuub RK sahib, donoN asha'ar ek se baRh kar ek haiN. The Firaq she'r is familiar, Haali's was unfamiliar for me. Thank you so much.

> > Now, please may we move past 'DeRh iiNT"? Enough flogging!
> >
> ***tamhiid hi se aap to bezaar ho gaye
> sun_naa jo chaahiye, voh sunaayaa nahiiN hunuuz! :-)
>
> R.K.***

Oh God! yeh sirf tamhiid thii? kahaani abhii baaqii hai? chaliye Thhiik hai, to aap phir se zara 'inflation' kiijiye, back to 2.5 iiNTs? Khuda Khair kare! :)

sab se alag, sab se judii,

________Zoya

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 4:28:49 PM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:

> > >
> > ***tamhiid hi se aap to bezaar ho gaye
> > sun_naa jo chaahiye, voh sunaayaa nahiiN hunuuz! :-)
> >
> > R.K.***

> Oh God! yeh sirf tamhiid thii? kahaani abhii baaqii hai? chaliye Thhiik hai, to aap phir se zara 'inflation' kiijiye, back to 2.5 iiNTs?

Khuda Khair kare! :) ---------------
------------------

***aaj shaam ka she'r:

aaj phir raNg pe hai shaam, Khudaa Khair kare
phir mire haath meN hai jaam, Khudaa Khair kare!

R.K.***

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 11:48:51 AM UTC-6, Raj Kumar wrote:

<snip>

>
> vaise, aap se pahle, Maulana Haali ne bhi kuchh aisi hi 'positive spin' ka zikr kiyaa tha:
>
> baatoN meN tirii, suufii, gar nuur-e-safaa hotaa
> tuu sab se milaa rahtaa aur sab se judaa hotaa!
>

<snip>

>
> R.K.***
RK Sahib,

I marvel at (and am extremely jealous of) your innate talent at composing Urdu poetry, understanding the behr, and "elephant-like" memory, not to mention the patience with which you impart your knowledge to others in this group with a touch of humor. "Each and every" sher that you quote makes me say ... daaammn that is such a good sher, and I log it into my personal collection. The one above reminds me of Rudyard Kipling's "If" and Gita sloka "karmaNeyava adhikaaraste" ...

Like Zoya sahiba, and many others have repeatedly said, your contribution here is priceless! I routinely go back to read your (and Ali Minai sahib's) posts. May God bless you with good health for decades to come.

Dinesh

On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:14:44 AM UTC-7, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 11:48:51 AM UTC-6, Raj Kumar wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> > vaise, aap se pahle, Maulana Haali ne bhi kuchh aisi hi 'positive spin' ka zikr kiyaa tha:
> >
> > baatoN meN tirii, suufii, gar nuur-e-safaa hotaa
> > tuu sab meN milaa rahtaa aur sab se judaa hotaa!
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > R.K.***
>
> RK Sahib,
>
> I marvel at (and am extremely jealous of)

***azeez-e-man, aap be-shak jii bhar kar "marvel" keejiye magar, ba-Khudaa, 'jealous' mat ho'iiye, is liye k Hasad insaan ki siHat ke liye muzir hai. haaN, agar hona hi hai to 'envious' ho'iiye, is liye k rashk insaan ki zehni quvvat ko tez se tez-tar karta hai!***

> your innate talent at composing Urdu poetry, understanding the bahr, and "elephant-like" memory, not to mention the patience with which you impart your knowledge to others in this group with a touch of humor.

***You must be in a great mood today, Dinesh sahib, ------ varna aap ke muNh se aisi dhu'aaN-dhaar ta'areef ke liye Khaaksaar qat'an taiyaar na tha. Huzuur, Urdu poetry 'compose' karna aur, aisa karte huye baHr/vazn ko iHaate meN rakhna mere liye ma'amuuli baateN haiN.

haaN, "elephant-like memory" Ghaaliban qudrat ki den hai, jab-k "elephant-like peT" meri apni bad-parhez'ii ka nateeja hai! :-)

rahii baat 'touch of humor' ki to kyaa karuuN --- ba-qaul-e-shaKhse, dunyaa meN sirf do qism ke log haiN:

1. jo sub'H-o-shaam kisi baaraat meN shaamil haiN
2. jo sub'H-o-shaam kisi janaaze meN shaamil haiN

Luckily, I happen to be in category 1. :-)***

> "Each and every" she'r that you quote makes me say ... daaammn that is such a good she'r, and I log it into my personal collection.

***Thanks for the compliment, Dinesh sahib, but (as I have said before), I always quote ash'aar from memory and, in doing so, I rarely make a mistake ---- but if some time I do make a mistake and someone points it out, I readily admit it and correct it.

In any case, the crux of the matter is that one should quote a she'r such that it fits the situation perfectly well and, at the same time, is good enough to dive right into the depths of the listener's heart. I am lucky that, more often than not, I succeed in doing so.***

> The one above reminds me of Rudyard Kipling's "If" and Gita sloka "karmaNeyava adhikaaraste" ...

***Come on, yaar jii, you are now beginning to intimidate me ---- for I have never read Rudyard Kipling's "If" or this unpronounceable shloka of Gita.. To be truthful,

"yeh baateN daanaa'oN ki haiN, in meN mujhe mat saaniye"! :-)***
> Like Zoya sahiba, and many others have repeatedly said, your contribution here is priceless!

***Dinesh sahib, Khaaksaar to to aisa ko'ii gumaaN nahiiN hai, phir bhi agar

"log kahte haiN to phir Theek hi kahte hoN ge"! :-) ***

> May God bless you with good health for decades to come.

***mujhe ziNdagii kii du'aa dene vaale
haNsii aa rahii hai tirii saadagii par!

R.K.***

On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:54:56 PM UTC-6, Raj Kumar wrote:

<snip>

> >
> > I marvel at (and am extremely jealous of)
> ***azeez-e-man, aap be-shak jii bhar kar "marvel" keejiye magar, ba-Khudaa, 'jealous' mat ho'iiye, is liye k Hasad insaan ki siHat ke liye muzir hai.. haaN, agar hona hi hai to 'envious' ho'iiye, is liye k rashk insaan ki zehni quvvat ko tez se tez-tar karta hai!***
>

Raj Kumar sahib, yes, I meant envious :)

<snip>

> > The one above reminds me of Rudyard Kipling's "If" and Gita sloka "karmaNeyava adhikaaraste" ...
> ***Come on, yaar jii, you are now beginning to intimidate me ---- for I have never read Rudyard Kipling's "If" or this unpronounceable shloka of Gita. To be truthful,
>

Since this is a Urdu forum, let me send you the angrezi poem and Sanskrit sloka in a private email :)

<snip>

> R.K.***

Dinesh

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 11:30:47 AM UTC-5, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:

> Since this is a Urdu forum, let me send you the angrezi poem and Sanskrit sloka in a private email :)

Dinesh sahib,

I want to read the 'angrezi poem' and the 'Geeta sloka' too!

If you are actually concerned about posting them in Alup, we can always find some relevant asha'ar to go along with the good stuff, so no worries. At least no worries in this thread!

RK sahib will understand, he usually does, right Prof? :-))

________Zoya

A couple of days ago, my friend Amardeep Singh, a young Urdu poet from Patiala, sent me one of his ghazals. A particular sh'er has stayed with me. It is what I call "my kind of she'r":

is Khush_gumaanii par tujhe aaKhir kahuuN bhi kyaa
tuu Khuub hai to tujh se koii Khuub_tar na ho!

Khuub sh'er ha naa?! :-)

______Zoya

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 12:35:41 PM UTC-6, Zoya wrote:
> On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 11:30:47 AM UTC-5, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
>
> > Since this is a Urdu forum, let me send you the angrezi poem and Sanskrit sloka in a private email :)
> Dinesh sahib,
>
> I want to read the 'angrezi poem' and the 'Geeta sloka' too!
>
> If you are actually concerned about posting them in Alup, we can always find some relevant asha'ar to go along with the good stuff, so no worries. At least no worries in this thread!
>
> RK sahib will understand, he usually does, right Prof? :-))
>
> ________Zoya

Here you go Zoya sahiba ...

Here are the 2 pieces I had mentioned ...

कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन |
मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भूर्मा ते सङ्गोऽस्त्वकर्मणि

You have the right to perform your prescribed duties, but you are not entitled to the fruits of your actions.
Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities, nor be attached to inaction.

IF

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

Dinesh

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 9:43:42 PM UTC-5, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 12:35:41 PM UTC-6, Zoya wrote:
> > On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 11:30:47 AM UTC-5, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> >
> > > Since this is a Urdu forum, let me send you the angrezi poem and Sanskrit sloka in a private email :)
> > Dinesh sahib,
> >
> > I want to read the 'angrezi poem' and the 'Geeta sloka' too!
> >
> > If you are actually concerned about posting them in Alup, we can always find some relevant asha'ar to go along with the good stuff, so no worries. At least no worries in this thread!
> >
> > RK sahib will understand, he usually does, right Prof? :-))
> >
> > ________Zoya
> Here you go Zoya sahiba ...
>
> Here are the 2 pieces I had mentioned ...
>
> कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन |
> मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भूर्मा ते सङ्गोऽस्त्वकर्मणि
>
> You have the right to perform your prescribed duties, but you are not entitled to the fruits of your actions.
> Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities, nor be attached to inaction.
>
> IF
>
> If you can keep your head when all about you
> Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
> If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
> But make allowance for their doubting too;
> If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
> Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
> Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
> And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
>
> If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
> If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
> If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
> And treat those two impostors just the same;
> If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
> Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
> Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
> And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
>
> If you can make one heap of all your winnings
> And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
> And lose, and start again at your beginnings
> And never breathe a word about your loss;
> If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
> To serve your turn long after they are gone,
> And so hold on when there is nothing in you
> Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
>
> If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
> Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
> If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
> If all men count with you, but none too much;
> If you can fill the unforgiving minute
> With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
> Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
> And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
>
> Dinesh

Wow! Times two.

Thank you so much Dinesh sahib, such amazing pieces. Brilliant. Classic. Life altering.

I have read this sloka previously. If we could follow the true essence of Geeta, life would be so much better.

It is been a while since I've read Kipling, and could only recall bits and pieces of 'If'. The best advice ever. Again, if only we could follow even some of it!

I will be revisiting this poem more than once, need to dwell on it, and try to absorb it.

Really appreciate you sharing these two gems.

G N,

_________Zoya

On Tuesday, 1 June 2021 at 03:43:42 UTC+1, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
>
>>
> कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन |
> मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भूर्मा ते सङ्गोऽस्त्वकर्मणि
>
> You have the right to perform your prescribed duties, but you are not entitled to the fruits of your actions.
> Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities, nor be attached to inaction.
>
> Dinesh
Dinesh SaaHib, aadaab.
Thank you for these words of profound wisdom.
What do you think of this rendition?
You have the right to action alone, and not to the results of your action. Neither should you be attached to the results of your action, nor should you have attachment to inaction.
You did n't know ALUP members also have access to knowledge of Sanskrit, did you?:-)
Naseer

On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 8:20:37 AM UTC-6, Naseer wrote:
> On Tuesday, 1 June 2021 at 03:43:42 UTC+1, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> >
> >>
> > कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन |
> > मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भूर्मा ते सङ्गोऽस्त्वकर्मणि
> >
> > You have the right to perform your prescribed duties, but you are not entitled to the fruits of your actions.
> > Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities, nor be attached to inaction.
> >
> > Dinesh
>
> Dinesh SaaHib, aadaab.
>
> Thank you for these words of profound wisdom.
>
> What do you think of this rendition?
>
> You have the right to action alone, and not to the results of your action.. Neither should you be attached to the results of your action, nor should you have attachment to inaction.
>
> You did n't know ALUP members also have access to knowledge of Sanskrit, did you?:-)
>
> Naseer

Naseer sahib,

I am not sure if you have a question for me here?

Like Zoya sahiba said, I try to follow the essence of this sloka (my favorite from the Gita) as much as possible ... with limited success if I might add :)

Dinesh