On Friday, July 9, 2021 at 10:22:55 AM UTC+5:30, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 7, 2021 at 9:45:27 PM UTC-7, Mohit wrote:
> >
> > ( Rekhta in it's hindi section writes Alaava, so readers like me would always believe it to be alaava )
> ***Mohit sahib, this time a question unrelated to Urdu poetry.
>
> Is it legit to write it's for its? As I understand it, it's is a contraction of "it is" or "it has"; as such, it shouldn't be used as an alternative to the pronoun "its".
>
> R.K.***

yes sir, apologies this time for wrong english grammer

Another Riyaz Majeed gem, from one of my all time favorite ghazals:

mere she'roN meN tirii bechaargi ka dukh bhi ho
kaash jo tuu sochtaa hai, voh bhii maiN likhkhaa karuuN!

wo chaaNdni ka badan, khushbuoN ka saaya hai,
bahut azeez humeiN hai, magar paraaya hai... - Bashir Badr...

On Wednesday, July 28, 2021 at 9:43:54 PM UTC-7, Mohit wrote:
> wo chaaNdni ka badan, khushbuoN ka saaya hai,
> bahut azeez humeiN hai, magar paraaya hai... - Bashir Badr...

------------

ziNdagii meN suruur hai tujh se
ghup aNdhere meN nuur hai tujh se
tuu paraa'ii sahii magar phir bhii
ko'ii rishta zaruur hai tujh se!
[Qais]

> > wo chaaNdni ka badan, khushbuoN ka saaya hai,
> > bahut azeez humeiN hai, magar paraaya hai... - Bashir Badr...
> ------------
> ziNdagii meN suruur hai tujh se
> ghup aNdhere meN nuur hai tujh se
> tuu paraa'ii sahii magar phir bhii
> ko'ii rishta zaruur hai tujh se!
> [Qais]

Mohit/RK sahib,

is baat par meri ek puraani ghazal kaa yeh she'r dekhiye:

kehne ko voh ik ghair hai, begaana hai lekin
sab apnoN meN vaisaa koii apnaa bhi nahiiN hai :-)

vaise yeh puuri ghazal Ibn-e-Insha ke is she'r se 'inspire' huii thii:

ham se nahiiN rishtaa bhi, ham se nahiiN miltaa bhi
hai paas voh baiThaa bhi, dhokaa ho to aisaa ho!

> ziNdagii meN suruur hai tujh se
> ghup aNdhere meN nuur hai tujh se
> tuu paraa'ii sahii magar phir bhii
> ko'ii rishta zaruur hai tujh se!
> [Qais]

beautiful sir...

> Mohit/RK sahib,
>
> is baat par meri ek puraani ghazal kaa yeh she'r dekhiye:
>
> kehne ko voh ik ghair hai, begaana hai lekin
> sab apnoN meN vaisaa koii apnaa bhi nahiiN hai :-)

superb mam...

> vaise yeh puuri ghazal Ibn-e-Insha ke is she'r se 'inspire' huii thii:
>
> ham se nahiiN rishtaa bhi, ham se nahiiN miltaa bhi
> hai paas voh baiThaa bhi, dhokaa ho to aisaa ho!

Allah kare 'meer' ka jannat mein makaaN ho,
marhuum ne har baat humari hi bayaaN ki... - Ibn-e-insha

aaj ka sher

sirhaane 'meer' ke ahista bolo,
abhi tuk rote rote ho gaya hai

( query... I remember reading this sher this way... but Rekhta quotes it differently infact both ways

as sher it quotes
sirhaane 'meer' ke koi na bolo,
abhi tuk rote rote ho gaya hai..

in trivia section it quotes,
sirhaane 'meer' ke ahista bolo,
abhi tuk rote rote ho gaya hai

Ref: https://www.rekhta.org/couplets/sirhaane-miir-ke-koii-na-bolo-meer-taqi-meer-couplets?lang=hi
)

On Thursday, July 29, 2021 at 8:14:29 PM UTC-7, Mohit wrote:
> > ziNdagii meN suruur hai tujh se
> > ghup aNdhere meN nuur hai tujh se
> > tuu paraa'ii sahii magar phir bhii
> > ko'ii rishta zaruur hai tujh se!
> > [Qais]

> beautiful sir...

***shukriya, janaab!

R.K.***

On Thursday, July 29, 2021 at 8:21:45 PM UTC-7, Mohit wrote:
> > Mohit/RK sahib,
> >
> > is baat par meri ek puraani ghazal kaa yeh she'r dekhiye:
> >
> > kehne ko voh ik ghair hai, begaana hai lekin
> > sab apnoN meN vaisaa koii apnaa bhi nahiiN hai :-)
> superb mam...
> > vaise yeh puuri ghazal Ibn-e-Insha ke is she'r se 'inspire' huii thii:
> >
> > ham se nahiiN rishtaa bhi, ham se nahiiN miltaa bhi
> > hai paas voh baiThaa bhi, dhokaa ho to aisaa ho!
> Allah kare 'meer' ka jannat mein makaaN ho,
> marhuum ne har baat humari hi bayaaN ki... - Ibn-e-insha
>
> aaj ka sher
>
> sirhaane 'meer' ke ahista bolo,
> abhi tuk rote rote ho gaya hai
>
> ( query... I remember reading this sher this way... but Rekhta quotes it differently infact both ways
>
> as sher it quotes
> sirhaane 'meer' ke koi na bolo,
> abhi tuk rote rote ho gaya hai..
>
> in trivia section it quotes,
>
> sirhaane 'meer' ke ahista bolo,
> abhi tuk rote rote ho gaya hai
>
> Ref: https://www.rekhta.org/couplets/sirhaane-miir-ke-koii-na-bolo-meer-taqi-meer-couplets?lang=hi
> )

***"ho gayaa" nahiiN, "so gayaa" hai!

R.K.***

> > sirhaane 'meer' ke ahista bolo,
> > abhi Tuk rote rote so gaya hai
> >
> > ( query... I remember reading this sher this way... but Rekhta quotes it differently infact both ways

> ***"ho gayaa" nahiiN, "so gayaa" hai!

> R.K.***

I have also always heard it as 'ahistaa bolo'. Why Rekhta would quote 'koii na bolo' needs further investigation. Interesting. Let us see what others might say.

behr kaif, baat sone sulaane kii hai to yeh bhi sunte jaaiye, by the one and only Jaun Eliya, aisaa bhi hotaa hai:

gham-e-furqat ka shikvaa karne vaalii
mirii maujuudagii meN so rahii hai!

On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 15:25:38 UTC+1, Zoya wrote:
> > > sirhaane 'meer' ke ahista bolo,
> > > abhi Tuk rote rote so gaya hai
> > >
> > > ( query... I remember reading this sher this way... but Rekhta quotes it differently infact both ways
> > ***"ho gayaa" nahiiN, "so gayaa" hai!
>
> > R.K.***
> I have also always heard it as 'ahistaa bolo'. Why Rekhta would quote 'koii na bolo' needs further investigation. Interesting. Let us see what others might say.
>
> behr kaif, baat sone sulaane kii hai to yeh bhi sunte jaaiye, by the one and only Jaun Eliya, aisaa bhi hotaa hai:
>
> gham-e-furqat ka shikvaa karne vaalii
> mirii maujuudagii meN so rahii hai!

Truth of the matter is that Mir did not wish anyone to be speaking at all in his presense, let alone quietly, when he has fallen asleep!:-) That's why he said...

sarhaane Mir ke ko'ii nah bolo
abhii Tuk rote rote so gayaa hai

............................................................

Naseer

On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 7:25:38 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> > > sirhaane 'meer' ke ahista bolo,
> > > abhi Tuk rote rote so gaya hai
> > >
> > > ( query... I remember reading this sher this way... but Rekhta quotes it differently infact both ways
> > ***"ho gayaa" nahiiN, "so gayaa" hai!
>
> > R.K.***

> I have also always heard it as 'ahistaa bolo'. Why Rekhta would quote 'koii na bolo' needs further investigation. Interesting. Let us see what others might say.

***ZS, like you, I too have always read and heard --- "aahista bolo". "ko'ii na bolo" is another feather in ReKhta's cap! :-)

I have four different books on Meer's poetry. They all say: "aahisat bolo". The one I trust most is a concise "intiKhaab-e-kalaam-e-Meer" by Maulavi Abdul Haq. In the "ibtidaa'ia" of this book, AQ gives half-a-page to discuss this she'r. There too the word is "aahista".

As a notable piece of information, a friend of mine who hails from Lucknow tells me that this very she'r is written as an epitaph on Meer's tombstone there, and he too recited it with the word "aahista". B/W, what an epitaph!***

> behr kaif, baat sone sulaane kii hai to yeh bhi sunte jaaiye

*** A correction, if you don't mind. Your "behr kaif" should be "ba-har-kaif", just like "ba-har-Haal".

R.K.***

On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 21:01:34 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 7:25:38 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> > > > sirhaane 'meer' ke ahista bolo,
> > > > abhi Tuk rote rote so gaya hai
> > > >
> > > > ( query... I remember reading this sher this way... but Rekhta quotes it differently infact both ways
> > > ***"ho gayaa" nahiiN, "so gayaa" hai!
> >
> > > R.K.***
>
> > I have also always heard it as 'ahistaa bolo'. Why Rekhta would quote 'koii na bolo' needs further investigation. Interesting. Let us see what others might say.
> ***ZS, like you, I too have always read and heard --- "aahista bolo". "ko'ii na bolo" is another feather in ReKhta's cap! :-)
>
> I have four different books on Meer's poetry. They all say: "aahisat bolo". The one I trust most is a concise "intiKhaab-e-kalaam-e-Meer" by Maulavi Abdul Haq. In the "ibtidaa'ia" of this book, AQ gives half-a-page to discuss this she'r. There too the word is "aahista".
>
> As a notable piece of information, a friend of mine who hails from Lucknow tells me that this very she'r is written as an epitaph on Meer's tombstone there, and he too recited it with the word "aahista". B/W, what an epitaph!***
> > behr kaif, baat sone sulaane kii hai to yeh bhi sunte jaaiye
> *** A correction, if you don't mind. Your "behr kaif" should be "ba-har-kaif", just like "ba-har-Haal".
>
> R.K.***

muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.

It seems my post has not been taken seriously!:-)

I have looked at three kulliyaat-i-Meer whose details are as below and in all of them the shi3r in question has "ko'ii nah bolo".

1. kulliyaat-i-Meer jild avval ma3 muqaddimah Sayyid IHtishaam Hussain- published in Ilahabad 1972

2. kulliyaat-i-Miir- murattabah - Zill-i-3abbaas 3abbaasii- This one has contributions from Rasheed Siddiqui, Qazi Abdul Wadduud, Professor Aal-i-Ahmad Suroor and Professor Raghupai Sahayi Firaq Gorakhpuri - Published by taraqqi-i-Urdu bureau in 1983

3. kulliyaat-i-Meer- murattabah Dr. Ibat Barelvi- Urdu dunyaa Karachi 1958, muqaddimah Abdul Bari Aasi- 1940 - Munish Nawal Kishore Lucknow.

diivan-i-Meer, nusxah-i-Mahmoodabad, apparently is the oldest manuscript (1203 hijri = 1788) and this also has "ko'ii nah bolo". (tartiib-o-tadviin Dr. Akbar Haidari, Srinagar 1973

About this shi3r, the compiler of the book says, "tabaqaatu_shshu3araa', 3umdah-i-muntaxabah aur maxtuut-i-gulshan-i-be-xaar meN shi3r isii tarH hai. suxan-i-shu3araa (1291 hijri = 1874) meN misra3ah-i-avval yuuN hai

sarhaane Meer ke aahistah bolo".

This is indeed the case as I've checked this book.

So, in conclusion the evidence is more towards "ko'ii nah bolo" than "aahistah bolo".

Naseer

On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 23:59:58 UTC+1, Naseer wrote:
> On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 21:01:34 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 7:25:38 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> > > > > sirhaane 'meer' ke ahista bolo,
> > > > > abhi Tuk rote rote so gaya hai
> > > > >
> > > > > ( query... I remember reading this sher this way... but Rekhta quotes it differently infact both ways
> > > > ***"ho gayaa" nahiiN, "so gayaa" hai!
> > >
> > > > R.K.***
> >
> > > I have also always heard it as 'ahistaa bolo'. Why Rekhta would quote 'koii na bolo' needs further investigation. Interesting. Let us see what others might say.
> > ***ZS, like you, I too have always read and heard --- "aahista bolo". "ko'ii na bolo" is another feather in ReKhta's cap! :-)
> >
> > I have four different books on Meer's poetry. They all say: "aahisat bolo". The one I trust most is a concise "intiKhaab-e-kalaam-e-Meer" by Maulavi Abdul Haq. In the "ibtidaa'ia" of this book, AQ gives half-a-page to discuss this she'r. There too the word is "aahista".
> >
> > As a notable piece of information, a friend of mine who hails from Lucknow tells me that this very she'r is written as an epitaph on Meer's tombstone there, and he too recited it with the word "aahista". B/W, what an epitaph!***
> > > behr kaif, baat sone sulaane kii hai to yeh bhi sunte jaaiye
> > *** A correction, if you don't mind. Your "behr kaif" should be "ba-har-kaif", just like "ba-har-Haal".
> >
> > R.K.***
> muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
>
> It seems my post has not been taken seriously!:-)
>
> I have looked at three kulliyaat-i-Meer whose details are as below and in all of them the shi3r in question has "ko'ii nah bolo".
>
> 1. kulliyaat-i-Meer jild avval ma3 muqaddimah Sayyid IHtishaam Hussain- published in Ilahabad 1972
>
> 2. kulliyaat-i-Miir- murattabah - Zill-i-3abbaas 3abbaasii- This one has contributions from Rasheed Siddiqui, Qazi Abdul Wadduud, Professor Aal-i-Ahmad Suroor and Professor Raghupai Sahayi Firaq Gorakhpuri - Published by taraqqi-i-Urdu bureau in 1983
>
> 3. kulliyaat-i-Meer- murattabah Dr. Ibat Barelvi- Urdu dunyaa Karachi 1958, muqaddimah Abdul Bari Aasi- 1940 - Munish Nawal Kishore Lucknow.
>
> diivan-i-Meer, nusxah-i-Mahmoodabad, apparently is the oldest manuscript (1203 hijri = 1788) and this also has "ko'ii nah bolo". (tartiib-o-tadviin Dr. Akbar Haidari, Srinagar 1973
>
> About this shi3r, the compiler of the book says, "tabaqaatu_shshu3araa', 3umdah-i-muntaxabah aur maxtuut-i-gulshan-i-be-xaar meN shi3r isii tarH hai.. suxan-i-shu3araa (1291 hijri = 1874) meN misra3ah-i-avval yuuN hai
>
> sarhaane Meer ke aahistah bolo".
>
> This is indeed the case as I've checked this book.
>
> So, in conclusion the evidence is more towards "ko'ii nah bolo" than "aahistah bolo".
>
> Naseer

Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab

guzashta se paivasta ham-chuniin!

In your post, Raj Kumar SaaHib, you mentioned the epitaph on Meer's grave being this particular shi3r with "aahistah bolo". This is indeed a very fine epitaph, if the story is true. Now, please allow me to tell you about an epitaph that is definitely true!

Spike Milligan (1918-2002) was a British comedian of Irish descent. He was born in India, in Ahmednagar, as a matter of interest.

Because of his Irish roots, he chose to have his epitaph is engraved in Gaelic. Below is a link to the photo of this epitaph.

https://www.alamy.com/spike-milligans-gravestone-with-the-epitaph-i-told-you-i-was-ill-written-image158055784.html

The most relevant part of this epitaph, when translated in England, is "I told you, I was ill"! Now, is n't this a wonderful epitaph?

Naseer

On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 23:59:58 UTC+1, Naseer wrote:
> On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 21:01:34 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 7:25:38 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> > > > > sirhaane 'meer' ke ahista bolo,
> > > > > abhi Tuk rote rote so gaya hai
> > > > >
> > > > > ( query... I remember reading this sher this way... but Rekhta quotes it differently infact both ways
> > > > ***"ho gayaa" nahiiN, "so gayaa" hai!
> > >
> > > > R.K.***
> >
> > > I have also always heard it as 'ahistaa bolo'. Why Rekhta would quote 'koii na bolo' needs further investigation. Interesting. Let us see what others might say.
> > ***ZS, like you, I too have always read and heard --- "aahista bolo". "ko'ii na bolo" is another feather in ReKhta's cap! :-)
> >
> > I have four different books on Meer's poetry. They all say: "aahisat bolo". The one I trust most is a concise "intiKhaab-e-kalaam-e-Meer" by Maulavi Abdul Haq. In the "ibtidaa'ia" of this book, AQ gives half-a-page to discuss this she'r. There too the word is "aahista".
> >
> > As a notable piece of information, a friend of mine who hails from Lucknow tells me that this very she'r is written as an epitaph on Meer's tombstone there, and he too recited it with the word "aahista". B/W, what an epitaph!***
> > > behr kaif, baat sone sulaane kii hai to yeh bhi sunte jaaiye
> > *** A correction, if you don't mind. Your "behr kaif" should be "ba-har-kaif", just like "ba-har-Haal".
> >
> > R.K.***
> muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
>
> It seems my post has not been taken seriously!:-)
>
> I have looked at three kulliyaat-i-Meer whose details are as below and in all of them the shi3r in question has "ko'ii nah bolo".
>
> 1. kulliyaat-i-Meer jild avval ma3 muqaddimah Sayyid IHtishaam Hussain- published in Ilahabad 1972
>
> 2. kulliyaat-i-Miir- murattabah - Zill-i-3abbaas 3abbaasii- This one has contributions from Rasheed Siddiqui, Qazi Abdul Wadduud, Professor Aal-i-Ahmad Suroor and Professor Raghupai Sahayi Firaq Gorakhpuri - Published by taraqqi-i-Urdu bureau in 1983
>
> 3. kulliyaat-i-Meer- murattabah Dr. Ibat Barelvi- Urdu dunyaa Karachi 1958, muqaddimah Abdul Bari Aasi- 1940 - Munish Nawal Kishore Lucknow.
>
> diivan-i-Meer, nusxah-i-Mahmoodabad, apparently is the oldest manuscript (1203 hijri = 1788) and this also has "ko'ii nah bolo". (tartiib-o-tadviin Dr. Akbar Haidari, Srinagar 1973
>
> About this shi3r, the compiler of the book says, "tabaqaatu_shshu3araa', 3umdah-i-muntaxabah aur maxtuut-i-gulshan-i-be-xaar meN shi3r isii tarH hai.. suxan-i-shu3araa (1291 hijri = 1874) meN misra3ah-i-avval yuuN hai
>
> sarhaane Meer ke aahistah bolo".
>
> This is indeed the case as I've checked this book.
>
> So, in conclusion the evidence is more towards "ko'ii nah bolo" than "aahistah bolo".
>
> Naseer

Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab

guzashta se paivasta ham-chuniin!

In your post, Raj Kumar SaaHib, you mentioned the epitaph on Meer's grave being this particular shi3r with "aahistah bolo". This is indeed a very fine epitaph, if the story is true. Now, please allow me to tell you about an epitaph that is definitely true!

Spike Milligan (1918-2002) was a British comedian of Irish descent. He was born in India, in Ahmednagar, as a matter of interest.

Because of his Irish roots, he chose to have his epitaph is engraved in Gaelic. Below is a link to the photo of this epitaph.

https://www.alamy.com/spike-milligans-gravestone-with-the-epitaph-i-told-you-i-was-ill-written-image158055784.html

The most relevant part of this epitaph, "Dúirt mé leat go raibh mé breoite", when translated in England, is "I told you, I was ill"! Now, is n't this a wonderful epitaph?

Naseer

On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 23:59:58 UTC+1, Naseer wrote:
> On Friday, 30 July 2021 at 21:01:34 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 7:25:38 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> > > > > sirhaane 'meer' ke ahista bolo,
> > > > > abhi Tuk rote rote so gaya hai
> > > > >
> > > > > ( query... I remember reading this sher this way... but Rekhta quotes it differently infact both ways
> > > > ***"ho gayaa" nahiiN, "so gayaa" hai!
> > >
> > > > R.K.***
> >
> > > I have also always heard it as 'ahistaa bolo'. Why Rekhta would quote 'koii na bolo' needs further investigation. Interesting. Let us see what others might say.
> > ***ZS, like you, I too have always read and heard --- "aahista bolo". "ko'ii na bolo" is another feather in ReKhta's cap! :-)
> >
> > I have four different books on Meer's poetry. They all say: "aahisat bolo". The one I trust most is a concise "intiKhaab-e-kalaam-e-Meer" by Maulavi Abdul Haq. In the "ibtidaa'ia" of this book, AQ gives half-a-page to discuss this she'r. There too the word is "aahista".
> >
> > As a notable piece of information, a friend of mine who hails from Lucknow tells me that this very she'r is written as an epitaph on Meer's tombstone there, and he too recited it with the word "aahista". B/W, what an epitaph!***
> > > behr kaif, baat sone sulaane kii hai to yeh bhi sunte jaaiye
> > *** A correction, if you don't mind. Your "behr kaif" should be "ba-har-kaif", just like "ba-har-Haal".
> >
> > R.K.***
> muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
>
> It seems my post has not been taken seriously!:-)
>
> I have looked at three kulliyaat-i-Meer whose details are as below and in all of them the shi3r in question has "ko'ii nah bolo".
>
> 1. kulliyaat-i-Meer jild avval ma3 muqaddimah Sayyid IHtishaam Hussain- published in Ilahabad 1972
>
> 2. kulliyaat-i-Miir- murattabah - Zill-i-3abbaas 3abbaasii- This one has contributions from Rasheed Siddiqui, Qazi Abdul Wadduud, Professor Aal-i-Ahmad Suroor and Professor Raghupai Sahayi Firaq Gorakhpuri - Published by taraqqi-i-Urdu bureau in 1983
>
> 3. kulliyaat-i-Meer- murattabah Dr. Ibat Barelvi- Urdu dunyaa Karachi 1958, muqaddimah Abdul Bari Aasi- 1940 - Munish Nawal Kishore Lucknow.
>
> diivan-i-Meer, nusxah-i-Mahmoodabad, apparently is the oldest manuscript (1203 hijri = 1788) and this also has "ko'ii nah bolo". (tartiib-o-tadviin Dr. Akbar Haidari, Srinagar 1973
>
> About this shi3r, the compiler of the book says, "tabaqaatu_shshu3araa', 3umdah-i-muntaxabah aur maxtuut-i-gulshan-i-be-xaar meN shi3r isii tarH hai.. suxan-i-shu3araa (1291 hijri = 1874) meN misra3ah-i-avval yuuN hai
>
> sarhaane Meer ke aahistah bolo".
>
> This is indeed the case as I've checked this book.
>
> So, in conclusion the evidence is more towards "ko'ii nah bolo" than "aahistah bolo".
>
> Naseer

Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab

guzashta se paivasta ham-chuniin!

In your post, Raj Kumar SaaHib, you mentioned the epitaph on Meer's grave being this particular shi3r with "aahistah bolo". This is indeed a very fine epitaph, if the story is true. Now, please allow me to tell you about an epitaph that is definitely true!

Spike Milligan (1918-2002) was a British comedian of Irish descent. He was born in India, in Ahmednagar, as a matter of interest.

Because of his Irish roots, he chose to have his epitaph engraved in Gaelic.. Below is a link to the photo of this epitaph.

https://www.alamy.com/spike-milligans-gravestone-with-the-epitaph-i-told-you-i-was-ill-written-image158055784.html

The most relevant part of this epitaph, "Dúirt mé leat go raibh mé breoite", when translated into English, is "I told you, I was ill"! Now, is n't this a wonderful epitaph?

Naseer

Now I am even more confused, so what is the verdict? "aahista bolo" yaa "koii na bolo"??

If we get to vote, then I'll go with "koii na bolo", for strictly personal reasons. You see, I am the type who likes no noise, not even soft whispers, when I am sleeping. Or studying, or watching TV, or even typing Alup posts for that matter! :)

Yup, I was the one who would go yell at the neighborhood kids playing outside if I was trying to study. Oh and a few years ago, one semester, we had a liberal arts class next door to my classroom. They used to play videos all the time, and I found that noise, penetrating a thick wall in between, so distracting that every so often I would walk over to the other professor and tell him to turn the volume down. Excuse being that my Calculus students couldn't focus, even though none of them ever complained! The poor Drama professor made sure that his class was not scheduled in the room next to mine ever again! :-)

One last true story, once in the middle of a trans Atlantic flight, a man three rows behind me started snoring, of course I asked to be moved to a whole different cabin! Maybe the flight attendant obliged readily because she felt that I may actually go shake the other passenger awake. :-))

So, Prof RK, I am good with "koii na bolo", if you are.

Nap time now. Hush everyone. :-))))

_______Zoya

On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 3:59:58 PM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:

> muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
>
> It seems my post has not been taken seriously!:-)

***Yes, Naseer sahib, you are right. I cannot speak for others but I, for one, did think that that post of yours was written in jest. We can blame it partly on your emoji!***
> I have looked at three kulliyaat-i-Meer whose details are as below and in all of them the shi3r in question has "ko'ii nah bolo".
>
> 1. kulliyaat-i-Meer jild avval ma3 muqaddimah Sayyid IHtishaam Hussain- published in Ilahabad 1972
>
> 2. kulliyaat-i-Miir- murattabah - Zill-i-3abbaas 3abbaasii- This one has contributions from Rasheed Siddiqui, Qazi Abdul Wadduud, Professor Aal-i-Ahmad Suroor and Professor Raghupai Sahayi Firaq Gorakhpuri - Published by taraqqi-i-Urdu bureau in 1983
>
> 3. kulliyaat-i-Meer- murattabah Dr. Ibat Barelvi- Urdu dunyaa Karachi 1958, muqaddimah Abdul Bari Aasi- 1940 - Munish Nawal Kishore Lucknow.
>
> diivan-i-Meer, nusxah-i-Mahmoodabad, apparently is the oldest manuscript (1203 hijri = 1788) and this also has "ko'ii nah bolo". (tartiib-o-tadviin Dr. Akbar Haidari, Srinagar 1973
>
> About this shi3r, the compiler of the book says, "tabaqaatu_shshu3araa', 3umdah-i-muntaxabah aur maxtuut-i-gulshan-i-be-xaar meN shi3r isii tarH hai.. suxan-i-shu3araa (1291 hijri = 1874) meN misra3ah-i-avval yuuN hai
>
> sarhaane Meer ke aahistah bolo".
>
> This is indeed the case as I've checked this book.
>
> So, in conclusion the evidence is more towards "ko'ii nah bolo" than "aahistah bolo".

***Thank you very much for taking so much trouble in pursuing this matter. My hunch is that Meer's original might have been "ko'ii na bolo" but later on someone --- Meer himself or someone else --- changed it into "aahista bolo". In my view, this change is a considerable improvement over the original and, not surprisingly, became better known and better quoted.

meri naa-cheez raaye meN, jo lataafat lafz "aahista bolo" meN hai, voh "ko'ii na bolo" meN hargiz nahiiN hai. More on this --- in my reply to ZS.

Raj Kumar***

On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 3:05:38 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:

> Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab
>
> guzashta se paivasta ham-chuniin!
>
> In your post, Raj Kumar SaaHib, you mentioned the epitaph on Meer's grave being this particular shi3r with "aahistah bolo". This is indeed a very fine epitaph, if the story is true. Now, please allow me to tell you about an epitaph that is definitely true!
>
> Spike Milligan (1918-2002) was a British comedian of Irish descent. He was born in India, in Ahmednagar, as a matter of interest.
>
> Because of his Irish roots, he chose to have his epitaph engraved in Gaelic. Below is a link to the photo of this epitaph.
>
> https://www.alamy.com/spike-milligans-gravestone-with-the-epitaph-i-told-you-i-was-ill-written-image158055784.html
>
> The most relevant part of this epitaph, "Dúirt mé leat go raibh mé breoite", when translated into English, is "I told you, I was ill"! Now, is n't this a wonderful epitaph?

***Very nice, Naseer sahib, --------------"I told you, I was ill (but you didn't do anything about it)"! :-)

Now let me tell you another beautiful epitaph which didn't happen to be.

When Jhonny Carson retired from his long-lasting comedy show, someone asked him:
"John, today you are retiring from this show. When you retire from this world, what should be written on you tombstone"?
"I'll be right back", came the quick reply. :-)

Raj Kumar***

On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 10:49:22 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> Now I am even more confused, so what is the verdict? "aahista bolo" yaa "koii na bolo"??
>
> If we get to vote, then I'll go with "koii na bolo", for strictly personal reasons. You see, I am the type who likes no noise, not even soft whispers, when I am sleeping. Or studying, or watching TV, or even typing Alup posts for that matter! :)
>
> Yup, I was the one who would go yell at the neighborhood kids playing outside if I was trying to study. Oh and a few years ago, one semester, we had a liberal arts class next door to my classroom. They used to play videos all the time, and I found that noise, penetrating a thick wall in between, so distracting that every so often I would walk over to the other professor and tell him to turn the volume down. Excuse being that my Calculus students couldn't focus, even though none of them ever complained! The poor Drama professor made sure that his class was not scheduled in the room next to mine ever again! :-)
>
> One last true story, once in the middle of a trans Atlantic flight, a man three rows behind me started snoring, of course I asked to be moved to a whole different cabin! Maybe the flight attendant obliged readily because she felt that I may actually go shake the other passenger awake. :-))
>
> So, Prof RK, I am good with "koii na bolo", if you are.

***Sorry, Ma'am, I am not with you on this one. :-(

When you are trying to sleep but haven't yet fallen asleep, you can wish --- you can even tell others --- "ko'ii na bolo".
Once you have fallen asleep, you no longer have any say in the matter. Now it is others who advise one another to "speak softly"; they will hardly ever say "ko'ii na bolo, bichaari Zoya Rani ki abhi abhi aaNkh lagi hai". In fact, the world is not going to come to an 'acoustic halt' because you are having a nap. :-)

Please note that, in the she'r under discussion, Meer appears in the third person. After considerable struggle, he has just fallen asleep, he is in no position to say what others may or may not do while he is sleeping. It is his well-wishers who are suggesting to one another to "speak softly" because the poor guy is taking a well-needed nap. Nobody is going to so "ko'ii na bolo", only "aahista bolo"!

From a sheer poetic point view, the true effectiveness of this she'r comes from the words "aahista bolo", "Tuk" and "rote rote". Replace "aahista bolo" by ko'ii na bolo" and a significant part of that effectiveness will be lost. Just my opinion!

R.K.***

On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 2:30:22 PM UTC-4, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 10:49:22 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> > Now I am even more confused, so what is the verdict? "aahista bolo" yaa "koii na bolo"??
> >
> > If we get to vote, then I'll go with "koii na bolo", for strictly personal reasons. You see, I am the type who likes no noise, not even soft whispers, when I am sleeping. Or studying, or watching TV, or even typing Alup posts for that matter! :)
> >
> > Yup, I was the one who would go yell at the neighborhood kids playing outside if I was trying to study. Oh and a few years ago, one semester, we had a liberal arts class next door to my classroom. They used to play videos all the time, and I found that noise, penetrating a thick wall in between, so distracting that every so often I would walk over to the other professor and tell him to turn the volume down. Excuse being that my Calculus students couldn't focus, even though none of them ever complained! The poor Drama professor made sure that his class was not scheduled in the room next to mine ever again! :-)
> >
> > One last true story, once in the middle of a trans Atlantic flight, a man three rows behind me started snoring, of course I asked to be moved to a whole different cabin! Maybe the flight attendant obliged readily because she felt that I may actually go shake the other passenger awake. :-))
> >
> > So, Prof RK, I am good with "koii na bolo", if you are.
> ***Sorry, Ma'am, I am not with you on this one. :-(
>
> When you are trying to sleep but haven't yet fallen asleep, you can wish --- you can even tell others --- "ko'ii na bolo".
> Once you have fallen asleep, you no longer have any say in the matter. Now it is others who advise one another to "speak softly"; they will hardly ever say "ko'ii na bolo, bichaari Zoya Rani ki abhi abhi aaNkh lagi hai". In fact, the world is not going to come to an 'acoustic halt' because you are having a nap. :-)
>
> Please note that, in the she'r under discussion, Meer appears in the third person. After considerable struggle, he has just fallen asleep, he is in no position to say what others may or may not do while he is sleeping. It is his well-wishers who are suggesting to one another to "speak softly" because the poor guy is taking a well-needed nap. Nobody is going to so "ko'ii na bolo", only "aahista bolo"!
>
> From a sheer poetic point view, the true effectiveness of this she'r comes from the words "aahista bolo", "Tuk" and "rote rote". Replace "aahista bolo" by ko'ii na bolo" and a significant part of that effectiveness will be lost. Just my opinion!
>
> R.K.***

“dar-e-yaar par baRii dhuum hai.. wahaaN aashiqoN kaa hujuum hai
abhi neeNd aa’ii hai Husn ko.. ko’ii shor kar ke jagaa nah de!”
~Shakeel Badayuni
=================================================

On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 1:30:22 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:

> > So, Prof RK, I am good with "koii na bolo", if you are.
> ***Sorry, Ma'am, I am not with you on this one. :-(

But I am with you Prof RK, please notice that my original statement was conditional. So, all good. :-)

> When you are trying to sleep but haven't yet fallen asleep, you can wish --- you can even tell others --- "ko'ii na bolo".
> Once you have fallen asleep, you no longer have any say in the matter. Now it is others who advise one another to "speak softly"; they will hardly ever say "ko'ii na bolo, bichaari Zoya Rani ki abhi abhi aaNkh lagi hai". In fact, the world is not going to come to an 'acoustic halt' because you are having a nap. :-)

Oh how I wish I had that kind of power! But you are right, the reality is different. sach meN aaj tak to mujhe aisaa koii pehredaar nahiiN milaa! But I can still wish. And meantime, while awake, still 'boss around' people to be quiet, yes? :)

> Please note that, in the she'r under discussion, Meer appears in the third person. After considerable struggle, he has just fallen asleep, he is in no position to say what others may or may not do while he is sleeping. It is his well-wishers who are suggesting to one another to "speak softly" because the poor guy is taking a well-needed nap. Nobody is going to so "ko'ii na bolo", only "aahista bolo"!
>
> From a sheer poetic point view, the true effectiveness of this she'r comes from the words "aahista bolo", "Tuk" and "rote rote". Replace "aahista bolo" by ko'ii na bolo" and a significant part of that effectiveness will be lost. Just my opinion!

Well put. I am in total agreement, jo baat 'aahistaa bolo' meN hai, voh 'koii na bolo' meN kahaaN! Regardless of the original version, this modification by Meer himself, or most likely by someone else, has made this she'r really memorable. aur 'Tuk' to hai hii laajavaab.
> R.K.***

Thank you.

_______Zoya

On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 2:49:14 PM UTC-7, B.G. M. wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 2:30:22 PM UTC-4, Raj Kumar wrote:

> > ***Sorry, Ma'am, I am not with you on this one. :-(
> >
> > When you are trying to sleep but haven't yet fallen asleep, you can wish --- you can even tell others --- "ko'ii na bolo".
> > Once you have fallen asleep, you no longer have any say in the matter. Now it is others who advise one another to "speak softly"; they will hardly ever say "ko'ii na bolo, bichaari Zoya Rani ki abhi abhi aaNkh lagi hai". In fact, the world is not going to come to an 'acoustic halt' because you are having a nap. :-)
> >
> > Please note that, in the she'r under discussion, Meer appears in the third person. After considerable struggle, he has just fallen asleep, he is in no position to say what others may or may not do while he is sleeping. It is his well-wishers who are suggesting to one another to "speak softly" because the poor guy is taking a well-needed nap. Nobody is going to so "ko'ii na bolo", only "aahista bolo"!
> >
> > From a sheer poetic point view, the true effectiveness of this she'r comes from the words "aahista bolo", "Tuk" and "rote rote". Replace "aahista bolo" by ko'ii na bolo" and a significant part of that effectiveness will be lost. Just my opinion!
> >
> > R.K.***

> “dar-e-yaar par baRii dhuum hai.. wahaaN aashiqoN kaa hujuum hai
> abhi neeNd aa’ii hai Husn ko.. ko’ii shor kar ke jagaa nah de!”
> ~Shakeel Badayuni

*** goyaa,

dheere dheere aa re
baadal, dheere aa re
baadal, dheere dheere aa
mera bulbul so rahaa hai
mera bulbul so rahaa hai
shor-o-Ghul na machaa! :-)

R.K.***

> =================================================

On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 9:05:05 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 2:49:14 PM UTC-7, B.G. M. wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 2:30:22 PM UTC-4, Raj Kumar wrote:
>
> > > ***Sorry, Ma'am, I am not with you on this one. :-(
> > >
> > > When you are trying to sleep but haven't yet fallen asleep, you can wish --- you can even tell others --- "ko'ii na bolo".
> > > Once you have fallen asleep, you no longer have any say in the matter.. Now it is others who advise one another to "speak softly"; they will hardly ever say "ko'ii na bolo, bichaari Zoya Rani ki abhi abhi aaNkh lagi hai".. In fact, the world is not going to come to an 'acoustic halt' because you are having a nap. :-)
> > >
> > > Please note that, in the she'r under discussion, Meer appears in the third person. After considerable struggle, he has just fallen asleep, he is in no position to say what others may or may not do while he is sleeping. It is his well-wishers who are suggesting to one another to "speak softly" because the poor guy is taking a well-needed nap. Nobody is going to so "ko'ii na bolo", only "aahista bolo"!
> > >
> > > From a sheer poetic point view, the true effectiveness of this she'r comes from the words "aahista bolo", "Tuk" and "rote rote". Replace "aahista bolo" by ko'ii na bolo" and a significant part of that effectiveness will be lost. Just my opinion!
> > >
> > > R.K.***
>
> > “dar-e-yaar par baRii dhuum hai.. wahaaN aashiqoN kaa hujuum hai
> > abhi neeNd aa’ii hai Husn ko.. ko’ii shor kar ke jagaa nah de!”
> > ~Shakeel Badayuni
> *** goyaa,
>
> dheere dheere aa re
> baadal, dheere aa re
> baadal, dheere dheere aa
> mera bulbul so rahaa hai
> mera bulbul so rahaa hai
> shor-o-Ghul na machaa! :-)
>
> R.K.***
>
> > =================================================
What a beautiful she'r BGM sahib. Just lovely. Thanks.

And RK sahib, this is exactly the song that immediately came to my mind when I read the Shakeel Badayuni she'r a couple of hours ago. Perhaps this song was fresh in my mind because Afzal sahib had mentioned it in another thread recently. As per Afzal sahib, the 'bulbul' here is Mumtaz Shanti in the movie Kismet.

What a perfect she'r-o-nghma combination! I would request Irfan sahib to sing this song, but not sure if this is quite up his alley. :)

______Zoya

On Sunday, 1 August 2021 at 22:43:56 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 3:59:58 PM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
>
> > muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
> >
> > It seems my post has not been taken seriously!:-)
> ***Yes, Naseer sahib, you are right. I cannot speak for others but I, for one, did think that that post of yours was written in jest. We can blame it partly on your emoji!***
> > I have looked at three kulliyaat-i-Meer whose details are as below and in all of them the shi3r in question has "ko'ii nah bolo".
> >
> > 1. kulliyaat-i-Meer jild avval ma3 muqaddimah Sayyid IHtishaam Hussain- published in Ilahabad 1972
> >
> > 2. kulliyaat-i-Miir- murattabah - Zill-i-3abbaas 3abbaasii- This one has contributions from Rasheed Siddiqui, Qazi Abdul Wadduud, Professor Aal-i-Ahmad Suroor and Professor Raghupai Sahayi Firaq Gorakhpuri - Published by taraqqi-i-Urdu bureau in 1983
> >
> > 3. kulliyaat-i-Meer- murattabah Dr. Ibat Barelvi- Urdu dunyaa Karachi 1958, muqaddimah Abdul Bari Aasi- 1940 - Munish Nawal Kishore Lucknow.
> >
> > diivan-i-Meer, nusxah-i-Mahmoodabad, apparently is the oldest manuscript (1203 hijri = 1788) and this also has "ko'ii nah bolo". (tartiib-o-tadviin Dr. Akbar Haidari, Srinagar 1973
> >
> > About this shi3r, the compiler of the book says, "tabaqaatu_shshu3araa', 3umdah-i-muntaxabah aur maxtuut-i-gulshan-i-be-xaar meN shi3r isii tarH hai. suxan-i-shu3araa (1291 hijri = 1874) meN misra3ah-i-avval yuuN hai
> >
> > sarhaane Meer ke aahistah bolo".
> >
> > This is indeed the case as I've checked this book.
> >
> > So, in conclusion the evidence is more towards "ko'ii nah bolo" than "aahistah bolo".
> ***Thank you very much for taking so much trouble in pursuing this matter.. My hunch is that Meer's original might have been "ko'ii na bolo" but later on someone --- Meer himself or someone else --- changed it into "aahista bolo". In my view, this change is a considerable improvement over the original and, not surprisingly, became better known and better quoted.
>
> meri naa-cheez raaye meN, jo lataafat lafz "aahista bolo" meN hai, voh "ko'ii na bolo" meN hargiz nahiiN hai. More on this --- in my reply to ZS.
>
> Raj Kumar***

Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.

In his compilation "baaGh-o-bahaar" ( by Mir Amman), the scholar Rasheed Hasan Khan quotes this shi'r with "ko'ii nah bolo" when he is commenting on the word "sarhaane". What I found interesting is, and no doubt you will already know this, that the word is سرھانے ......

"Urdu shu3araa ne bi_l3umuum is lafz ko ma3 haa-i-maxluutu_ttalaffuz naz kiyaa hai..

ek misaal

aage kisii kisii ke kyaa kareN dast-i-tam3 daraaz
vuh haath so gayaa hai sa-rhaane dhare dhare

Mir

yaa Mir hii kaa yih shi3r:

sa-rhaane Mir ke ko'ii nah bolo
abhii Tuk rote rote so gayaa hai...."

According to Dr. Akbar Haidari, the compiler of diivan-i-Meer, nusxah-i-Mahmoodaba, where nusxah-i-Mahmoodaba is said to be the oldest manuscript, he adds that Mir lived for another 30 years after this nusxah. So, it seems to be "ustaadoN kii islaaH" by a member of general public!:-)

Naseer