On Saturday, August 7, 2021 at 9:24:10 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:

> Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
>
> In his compilation "baaGh-o-bahaar" ( by Mir Amman), the scholar Rasheed Hasan Khan quotes this shi'r with "ko'ii nah bolo" when he is commenting on the word "sarhaane". What I found interesting is, and no doubt you will already know this, that the word is سرھانے .......
>
> "Urdu shu3araa ne bi_l3umuum is lafz ko ma3 haa-i-maxluutu_ttalaffuz naz kiyaa hai..
>
> ek misaal
>
> aage kisii kisii ke kyaa kareN dast-i-tam3 daraaz
> vuh haath so gayaa hai sa-rhaane dhare dhare

***janaab Naseer sahib, aap jis lafz ki baat kar rahe haiN maiN us ke hijje aur talaffuz donoN se vaaqif huuN magar mujhe lagta hai k aap is lafz ke talaffuz ke saath insaaf nahiiN kar rahe. Huzuur, is lafz ka ta'alluq Hindi lafz "sir" se hai, na k Faarsi lafz "sar" se. nateejatan, ise "sirhaane" likhna chaahiye, na k "sarhaane"!
The same holds for the word "sir-khapaa'ii", which shouldn't be spoken/written as "sar-khapaa'ii".

aur jahaaN tak lafz "sirhaane" ke vazn ki baat hai, harf 'h' be-vazn hai.***

> yaa Mir hii kaa yih shi3r:
>
> sa-rhaane Mir ke ko'ii nah bolo
> abhii Tuk rote rote so gayaa hai...."

> According to Dr. Akbar Haidari, the compiler of diivan-i-Meer, nusxah-i-Mahmoodaba, where nusxah-i-Mahmoodaba is said to be the oldest manuscript, he adds that Mir lived for another 30 years after this nusxah. So, it seems to be "ustaadoN kii islaaH" by a member of general public!:-)
>
***meri raaye meN yeh islaaH, chaahe kisi ne bhi ki ho, qaabil-e-sad-taHseen hai.

Raj Kumar***

On Monday, August 9, 2021 at 11:30:44 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:

> ***janaab Naseer sahib, aap jis lafz ki baat kar rahe haiN maiN us ke hijje aur talaffuz donoN se vaaqif huuN magar mujhe lagta hai k aap is lafz ke talaffuz ke saath insaaf nahiiN kar rahe. Huzuur, is lafz ka ta'alluq Hindi lafz "sir" se hai, na k Faarsi lafz "sar" se. nateejatan, ise "sirhaane" likhna chaahiye, na k "sarhaane"!

salaamat hai sar to sirhaane bahut haiN
mujhe dil_lagii ke Thikaane bahut haiN :)

On Sunday, 1 August 2021 at 22:58:00 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 3:05:38 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
>
> > Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab
> >
> > guzashta se paivasta ham-chuniin!
> >
> > In your post, Raj Kumar SaaHib, you mentioned the epitaph on Meer's grave being this particular shi3r with "aahistah bolo". This is indeed a very fine epitaph, if the story is true. Now, please allow me to tell you about an epitaph that is definitely true!
> >
> > Spike Milligan (1918-2002) was a British comedian of Irish descent. He was born in India, in Ahmednagar, as a matter of interest.
> >
> > Because of his Irish roots, he chose to have his epitaph engraved in Gaelic. Below is a link to the photo of this epitaph.
> >
> > https://www.alamy.com/spike-milligans-gravestone-with-the-epitaph-i-told-you-i-was-ill-written-image158055784.html
> >
> > The most relevant part of this epitaph, "Dúirt mé leat go raibh mé breoite", when translated into English, is "I told you, I was ill"! Now, is n't this a wonderful epitaph?
> ***Very nice, Naseer sahib, --------------"I told you, I was ill (but you didn't do anything about it)"! :-)
>
> Now let me tell you another beautiful epitaph which didn't happen to be.
>
> When Jhonny Carson retired from his long-lasting comedy show, someone asked him:
> "John, today you are retiring from this show. When you retire from this world, what should be written on you tombstone"?
> "I'll be right back", came the quick reply. :-)
>
> Raj Kumar***

The same Spike Milligan, Raj Kumar SaaHib, uttered the following gem.

“Condoms should be used on all conceivable occasions”!

Naseer

On Thursday, August 12, 2021 at 10:08:36 AM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:

> The same Spike Milligan, Raj Kumar SaaHib, uttered the following gem.
>
> “Condoms should be used on all conceivable occasions”!
>
> Naseer

I have been debating whether to ignore this distasteful post completely or say something regarding it. With no intention of adding anything further to it, I consider it my moral duty to mention that such 'gems' do not belong in this forum, or in this thread.

That is all I have to say.

Thank you.

________Zoya

On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 12:44:22 AM UTC+5:30, Zoya wrote:
> On Monday, August 9, 2021 at 11:30:44 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
>
> > ***janaab Naseer sahib, aap jis lafz ki baat kar rahe haiN maiN us ke hijje aur talaffuz donoN se vaaqif huuN magar mujhe lagta hai k aap is lafz ke talaffuz ke saath insaaf nahiiN kar rahe. Huzuur, is lafz ka ta'alluq Hindi lafz "sir" se hai, na k Faarsi lafz "sar" se. nateejatan, ise "sirhaane" likhna chaahiye, na k "sarhaane"!
> salaamat hai sar to sirhaane bahut haiN
> mujhe dil_lagii ke Thikaane bahut haiN :)

the one written on Ghalib's tomb

hue marr ke hum jo ruswa, hue kyuN na ghaq-e-dariya,
na kabhi janaaza uthhta, na kaheeN mazaar hota...

On Friday, 13 August 2021 at 00:40:33 UTC+1, Zoya wrote:
> On Thursday, August 12, 2021 at 10:08:36 AM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
>
> > The same Spike Milligan, Raj Kumar SaaHib, uttered the following gem.
> >
> > “Condoms should be used on all conceivable occasions”!
> >
> > Naseer
> I have been debating whether to ignore this distasteful post completely or say something regarding it. With no intention of adding anything further to it, I consider it my moral duty to mention that such 'gems' do not belong in this forum, or in this thread.
>
> That is all I have to say.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ________Zoya

I conceive this remark as a witty comment and a useful advice at the same time. I don’t find it distasteful.

There was a debate in the British parliament when an MP in her speech repeatedly used the phrase “I conceive”. Another MP in his speech said “The honorable member conceived three times but has produced nothing”!. I find this very amusing! LOL or should I say ROL!:-

As for the honourable ALUP member's consideration that this kind of comment does not belong in ALUP and whether it should be included in this thread is her prerogative to which other honourable members of ALUP are not bound.

Naseer

On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 3:26:14 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> On Friday, 13 August 2021 at 00:40:33 UTC+1, Zoya wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 12, 2021 at 10:08:36 AM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
> >
> > > The same Spike Milligan, Raj Kumar SaaHib, uttered the following gem.
> > >
> > > “Condoms should be used on all conceivable occasions”!
> > >
> > > Naseer
> > I have been debating whether to ignore this distasteful post completely or say something regarding it. With no intention of adding anything further to it, I consider it my moral duty to mention that such 'gems' do not belong in this forum, or in this thread.
> >
> > That is all I have to say.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > ________Zoya
> I conceive this remark as a witty comment and a useful advice at the same time. I don’t find it distasteful.
>
> There was a debate in the British parliament when an MP in her speech repeatedly used the phrase “I conceive”. Another MP in his speech said “The honorable member conceived three times but has produced nothing”!. I find this very amusing! LOL or should I say ROL!:-
>
> As for the honourable ALUP member's consideration that this kind of comment does not belong in ALUP and whether it should be included in this thread is her prerogative to which other honourable members of ALUP are not bound..
>
> Naseer

***janaab Naseer sahib:

I have followed (with distress) the comment of ZS on your post of Aug. 12 and more so your doubling-up of your stand via your post of Aug.13. Since we are a very small group of people trying to sustain this Newsgroup as best as we can, we shouldn't say or do anything that another member of the group finds distasteful or hurtful. In fact, we should try to accommodate one another as far as possible.

In order to avoid the possibility of turning anyone off or away from ALUP, I suggest --- in fact, request --- that you kindly delete your posts of the 12th and the 13th. If you'll do so, I'll expect ZS to delete hers, following which I'll delete the present one of mine.

Looking forward to your cooperation,
Raj Kumar***

On Sunday, 15 August 2021 at 01:08:47 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 3:26:14 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> > On Friday, 13 August 2021 at 00:40:33 UTC+1, Zoya wrote:
> > > On Thursday, August 12, 2021 at 10:08:36 AM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
> > >
> > > > The same Spike Milligan, Raj Kumar SaaHib, uttered the following gem.
> > > >
> > > > “Condoms should be used on all conceivable occasions”!
> > > >
> > > > Naseer
> > > I have been debating whether to ignore this distasteful post completely or say something regarding it. With no intention of adding anything further to it, I consider it my moral duty to mention that such 'gems' do not belong in this forum, or in this thread.
> > >
> > > That is all I have to say.
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > ________Zoya
> > I conceive this remark as a witty comment and a useful advice at the same time. I don’t find it distasteful.
> >
> > There was a debate in the British parliament when an MP in her speech repeatedly used the phrase “I conceive”. Another MP in his speech said “The honorable member conceived three times but has produced nothing”!. I find this very amusing! LOL or should I say ROL!:-
> >
> > As for the honourable ALUP member's consideration that this kind of comment does not belong in ALUP and whether it should be included in this thread is her prerogative to which other honourable members of ALUP are not bound.
> >
> > Naseer
> ***janaab Naseer sahib:
>
> I have followed (with distress) the comment of ZS on your post of Aug. 12 and more so your doubling-up of your stand via your post of Aug.13. Since we are a very small group of people trying to sustain this Newsgroup as best as we can, we shouldn't say or do anything that another member of the group finds distasteful or hurtful. In fact, we should try to accommodate one another as far as possible.
>
> In order to avoid the possibility of turning anyone off or away from ALUP, I suggest --- in fact, request --- that you kindly delete your posts of the 12th and the 13th. If you'll do so, I'll expect ZS to delete hers, following which I'll delete the present one of mine.
>
> Looking forward to your cooperation,
> Raj Kumar***

muHtaram Raj Kumar Sahib, aadaab.

I have expressed my views in a private communication to you.

Naseer

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 8:08:47 PM UTC-4, Raj Kumar wrote:

> ***janaab Naseer sahib:
>
> I have followed (with distress) the comment of ZS on your post of Aug. 12 and more so your doubling-up of your stand via your post of Aug.13. Since we are a very small group of people trying to sustain this Newsgroup as best as we can, we shouldn't say or do anything that another member of the group finds distasteful or hurtful. In fact, we should try to accommodate one another as far as possible.
>
> In order to avoid the possibility of turning anyone off or away from ALUP, I suggest --- in fact, request --- that you kindly delete your posts of the 12th and the 13th. If you'll do so, I'll expect ZS to delete hers, following which I'll delete the present one of mine.
>
> Looking forward to your cooperation,
> Raj Kumar***

I am came here after a long absence because of illness and was hoping to forget about life for a while. Instead, I came across this thread.

Without assigning blame, or pointing fingers, I must say RK sahib's suggestion lets all parties move past this *incident* without losing face.

I hope decency and good taste prevail over one's vanity and false ego.

Shoaib Tanvir Shoaib

On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 9:27:44 AM UTC-5, Shoaib Tanvir wrote:

> I am came here after a long absence because of illness and was hoping to forget about life for a while. Instead, I came across this thread.

> Shoaib Tanvir Shoaib

Shoaib sahib, so good to have you back. :-)

Hoping to forget about life? ok, to phir aap Parveen Shakir kaa yeh she'r suniye:

aamad pe teri itr-o-charaagh-o-subuu na hoN
itnaa bhi buud-o-baash ko saadah nahiiN kiyaa :-))

ab aa hii gayeN haiN to koii marne maarne vaala she'r bhi sunaate jaaiye. taa k mujhe "jiite rahiye" kehne kaa mauqa mil jaaye. vaise aap kii ghair_haaziri meN Irfan Abid sahib bhi aisii vaisii ghazaleN kehte rahe haiN, aap ne un kii taazah ghazal nahiiN dekhi, jis kaa pehlaa lafz hii 'murdah' hai! Khuda Khair kare.

Always great to see you here.

______Zoya

On Thursday, August 12, 2021 at 9:34:38 PM UTC-5, Mohit wrote:

> the one written on Ghalib's tomb

> hue mar ke hum jo ruswa, hue kyuN na gharq-e-dariya,
> na kabhi janaaza uthhta, na kaheeN mazaar hota...

Hi Mohit,

Thanks for this reminder, I remember it from the Ghalib documentary that you had recorded and shared with us on Alup. This she'r is a perfect fit for Ghalib's tomb, which is on my list of places to visit next time I am in Delhi. I've been wanting to do this for years, just never got around to it, now who knows when it will be due to the long lasting pandemic.

One more thing I want to share, without going into too many details. Several years ago, one of the students in my Calculus class was a young man who was a US navy veteran. A wonderful person, very respectful, a great student, one of my favorites. During his deployment, he had served on Navy ships stationed in several different parts of the world. Once while in my office, he told me about a sea burial they had to perform from his ship. The story gave me goose bumps, and does even now. This Ghalib she'r immediately came to mind at that time, and still does whenever I think of that incident.

That's my life, Urdu poetry to fit all occasions!

_______Zoya

Hello mam,
let me know when you are in Delhi, might be able to suggest you some more places to visit/eat here, Delhi ( specially old delhi ) should be declared as street food capital of the world :)

aaj ka sher
rooh ko shaad kare, dil ko jo pur-nuur kare,
har nazaare meiN ye tanveer kahaN hoti hai - Saahir Hoshiyaarpuri

On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 9:25:08 PM UTC+5:30, Zoya wrote:
> On Thursday, August 12, 2021 at 9:34:38 PM UTC-5, Mohit wrote:
>
> > the one written on Ghalib's tomb
> > hue mar ke hum jo ruswa, hue kyuN na gharq-e-dariya,
> > na kabhi janaaza uthhta, na kaheeN mazaar hota...
> Hi Mohit,
>
> Thanks for this reminder, I remember it from the Ghalib documentary that you had recorded and shared with us on Alup. This she'r is a perfect fit for Ghalib's tomb, which is on my list of places to visit next time I am in Delhi. I've been wanting to do this for years, just never got around to it, now who knows when it will be due to the long lasting pandemic.
>
> One more thing I want to share, without going into too many details. Several years ago, one of the students in my Calculus class was a young man who was a US navy veteran. A wonderful person, very respectful, a great student, one of my favorites. During his deployment, he had served on Navy ships stationed in several different parts of the world. Once while in my office, he told me about a sea burial they had to perform from his ship. The story gave me goose bumps, and does even now. This Ghalib she'r immediately came to mind at that time, and still does whenever I think of that incident.
>
> That's my life, Urdu poetry to fit all occasions!
>
> _______Zoya

On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 11:09:28 PM UTC-5, Mohit wrote:

> Hello mam,
> let me know when you are in Delhi, might be able to suggest you some more places to visit/eat here, Delhi ( specially old delhi ) should be declared as street food capital of the world :)

Thanks Mohit, I surely will. Who knows when though, I've cancelled my ticket to India three times in the last year and a half. I have some wonderful memories of my past visits to Delhi. I'd love to try out some street food, but no gol gappas for me, I am paranoid about the water! :)

Talking about food in old Delhi, one restaurant is special. A few years ago, when my older son and I were in Delhi for a couple of days, Amjad Islam Amjad sahib also happened to be there for a mushaira. Together, we visited Lal Qila and Jama masjid, Amjad sahib told my son that he will take us to one of his favorite places to eat in the area, "Kareem's." The food was really good and since then every time we are in Delhi, my son wants to eat there! I am not sure if you are a vegetarian, which I am also most of the time, but you must have heard about Kareem's. Good times.

One of the items on my Delhi bucket list is to attend jashn-e-Rekhta in person. I had talked about it with some friends and also my dad. Wish we had done it earlier, everything is so uncertain in near future. Let us hope for better times when we may be able to resume some degree of normalcy in our lives.

> aaj ka sher
> rooh ko shaad kare, dil ko jo pur-nuur kare,
> har nazaare meiN ye tanveer kahaN hoti hai - Saahir Hoshiyaarpuri

Beautiful. I also love this she'r.

Today being Rakhi, one of my favorite days of the year, I have this one song playing in my head. So, aaj kaa geet, dedicated to my younger and only brother:

mere bhaiya, mere chanda, mere anmol ratan
tere badle maiN zamaane ki koii chiiz na luuN. :-))

More on Rakhi later. I will share a beautiful, heart warming story.

________Zoya

That's my fear mam... Karim is overhyped ( my non vegetarian friends have told me, and they don't like Karim at all ), there is one restaurant in Chitli Kabar ( Jama Masjid ) Al-Jawahar, people have told me it is better than Karim, but I am not sure about this... also few learned men told me that the Karim falsely claims the Mughal name as the real Karim was an old guy on the stairs of Jama Masjid selling Kebabs, he passed away and some people claimed his name... not sure about the authenticity.

The area is also the heaven of vegetarians too, you won't be disappointed at all

aaj ka sher

dilli ke kooche na the auraaq-e-musawwir the,
jo shakl nazar aayi, tasweer nazar aayi - Meer

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:25:12 PM UTC+5:30, Zoya wrote:
> On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 11:09:28 PM UTC-5, Mohit wrote:
>
> > Hello mam,
> > let me know when you are in Delhi, might be able to suggest you some more places to visit/eat here, Delhi ( specially old delhi ) should be declared as street food capital of the world :)
> Thanks Mohit, I surely will. Who knows when though, I've cancelled my ticket to India three times in the last year and a half. I have some wonderful memories of my past visits to Delhi. I'd love to try out some street food, but no gol gappas for me, I am paranoid about the water! :)
>
> Talking about food in old Delhi, one restaurant is special. A few years ago, when my older son and I were in Delhi for a couple of days, Amjad Islam Amjad sahib also happened to be there for a mushaira. Together, we visited Lal Qila and Jama masjid, Amjad sahib told my son that he will take us to one of his favorite places to eat in the area, "Kareem's." The food was really good and since then every time we are in Delhi, my son wants to eat there! I am not sure if you are a vegetarian, which I am also most of the time, but you must have heard about Kareem's. Good times.
>
> One of the items on my Delhi bucket list is to attend jashn-e-Rekhta in person. I had talked about it with some friends and also my dad. Wish we had done it earlier, everything is so uncertain in near future. Let us hope for better times when we may be able to resume some degree of normalcy in our lives.
> > aaj ka sher
> > rooh ko shaad kare, dil ko jo pur-nuur kare,
> > har nazaare meiN ye tanveer kahaN hoti hai - Saahir Hoshiyaarpuri
> Beautiful. I also love this she'r.
>
> Today being Rakhi, one of my favorite days of the year, I have this one song playing in my head. So, aaj kaa geet, dedicated to my younger and only brother:
>
> mere bhaiya, mere chanda, mere anmol ratan
> tere badle maiN zamaane ki koii chiiz na luuN. :-))
>
> More on Rakhi later. I will share a beautiful, heart warming story.
>
> ________Zoya

On Monday, 30 August 2021 at 06:36:08 UTC+1, Mohit wrote:
> That's my fear mam... Karim is overhyped ( my non vegetarian friends have told me, and they don't like Karim at all ), there is one restaurant in Chitli Kabar ( Jama Masjid ) Al-Jawahar, people have told me it is better than Karim, but I am not sure about this... also few learned men told me that the Karim falsely claims the Mughal name as the real Karim was an old guy on the stairs of Jama Masjid selling Kebabs, he passed away and some people claimed his name... not sure about the authenticity.
>
> The area is also the heaven of vegetarians too, you won't be disappointed at all
>
> aaj ka sher
>
> dilli ke kooche na the auraaq-e-musawwir the,
> jo shakl nazar aayi, tasweer nazar aayi - Meer

One correction Mohit SaaHib, if you don't mind...

"musawwir" ought to be "musawwar" (illustrated).

Naseer

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 1:10:01 PM UTC+5:30, Naseer wrote:
> On Monday, 30 August 2021 at 06:36:08 UTC+1, Mohit wrote:
> > That's my fear mam... Karim is overhyped ( my non vegetarian friends have told me, and they don't like Karim at all ), there is one restaurant in Chitli Kabar
> "musawwir" ought to be "musawwar" (illustrated).
>
> Naseer

sir not arguing but I believe this too is due to the different script I can read ( devnaagri ), also in the ghazal

aap se mil ke hum kuchh badal se gaye, sher padhne lage gungunane lage,

https://youtu.be/B-u95Ejor5w?t=198

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan sa'b too pronounces it as musawwir... so was not aware about it...

On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 10:50:00 UTC+1, Mohit wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 1:10:01 PM UTC+5:30, Naseer wrote:
> > On Monday, 30 August 2021 at 06:36:08 UTC+1, Mohit wrote:
> > > That's my fear mam... Karim is overhyped ( my non vegetarian friends have told me, and they don't like Karim at all ), there is one restaurant in Chitli Kabar
> > "musawwir" ought to be "musawwar" (illustrated).
> >
> > Naseer
> sir not arguing but I believe this too is due to the different script I can read ( devnaagri ), also in the ghazal
>
> aap se mil ke hum kuchh badal se gaye, sher padhne lage gungunane lage,
>
> https://youtu.be/B-u95Ejor5w?t=198
>
> Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan sa'b too pronounces it as musawwir... so was not aware about it...

janaab, Mohit SaaHib. Whatever the script, "musavvir" is a "painter" i.e tasviir banaane vaalaa whereas ""musavvar" is "banii hu'ii tasviir". In Mir's couplet...

dilli ke nah the kuuche, auraaq-e-musawwir the....

he is saying...they were n't lanes of Delhi but were pages of illustrations or illustrated pages.

Rekhta.org in Devanagri has...

दिल्ली के न थे कूचे औराक़-ए-मुसव्वर थे
जो शक्ल नज़र आई तस्वीर नज़र आई

A lot of people are likely to be familiar with the word "musavvir" as the Muhammad Rafi song..

ai musavvir mere maHbuub kii tasviir banaa

but not with "musavvar".

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan is no no doubt among those people.

Naseer

when I used this sher for one of my documentary, I consulted a person who could read Urdu, he told me the word musawwir, that's why I thought it was musawwir... thanks very much for imparting this knowledge

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 5:25:07 PM UTC+5:30, Naseer wrote:
> On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 10:50:00 UTC+1, Mohit wrote:
> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 1:10:01 PM UTC+5:30, Naseer wrote:
> > > On Monday, 30 August 2021 at 06:36:08 UTC+1, Mohit wrote:
> > > > That's my fear mam... Karim is overhyped ( my non vegetarian friends have told me, and they don't like Karim at all ), there is one restaurant in Chitli Kabar
> > > "musawwir" ought to be "musawwar" (illustrated).
> > >
> > > Naseer
> > sir not arguing but I believe this too is due to the different script I can read ( devnaagri ), also in the ghazal
> >
> > aap se mil ke hum kuchh badal se gaye, sher padhne lage gungunane lage,
> >
> > https://youtu.be/B-u95Ejor5w?t=198
> >
> > Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan sa'b too pronounces it as musawwir... so was not aware about it...
> janaab, Mohit SaaHib. Whatever the script, "musavvir" is a "painter" i.e tasviir banaane vaalaa whereas ""musavvar" is "banii hu'ii tasviir". In Mir's couplet...
>
> dilli ke nah the kuuche, auraaq-e-musawwir the....
>
> he is saying...they were n't lanes of Delhi but were pages of illustrations or illustrated pages.
>
> Rekhta.org in Devanagri has...
>
> दिल्ली के न थे कूचे औराक़-ए-मुसव्वर थे
> जो शक्ल नज़र आई तस्वीर नज़र आई
>
> A lot of people are likely to be familiar with the word "musavvir" as the Muhammad Rafi song..
>
> ai musavvir mere maHbuub kii tasviir banaa
>
> but not with "musavvar".
>
> Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan is no no doubt among those people.
>
> Naseer

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 12:36:08 AM UTC-5, Mohit wrote:

> That's my fear mam... Karim is overhyped ( my non vegetarian friends have told me, and they don't like Karim at all ), there is one restaurant in Chitli Kabar ( Jama Masjid ) Al-Jawahar, people have told me it is better than Karim, but I am not sure about this... also few learned men told me that the Karim falsely claims the Mughal name as the real Karim was an old guy on the stairs of Jama Masjid selling Kebabs, he passed away and some people claimed his name... not sure about the authenticity.

Really? How interesting. You do have a point, probably overhyped. We'll have to try Al-Jawahar some time.
> The area is also the heaven of vegetarians too, you won't be disappointed at all

What are your favorite veg places in the area? My younger son is partial to Haldiram's, seems like a safe choice usually. Oh, and I like it because of the clean washrooms. :)

> aaj ka sher
>
> dilli ke kooche na the auraaq-e-musawwir the,
> jo shakl nazar aayi, tasweer nazar aayi - Meer

Classic. Did you use it in the documentary that you shared with us? I have a vague recollection.

________Zoya

abhi Haal hi meN maiN ne RK Qais sahib kaa ek she'r sunaa, jo mere zehn meN aTak gayaa hai, sochaa aap sab ko bhi sunaati chaluuN:

ghar meN ab a'afiyat se baiThe haiN
saari dunyaa ko ham Khafaa kar ke

________Zoya :)

On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:50:11 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> abhi Haal hi meN maiN ne RK Qais sahib kaa ek she'r sunaa, jo mere zehn meN aTak gayaa hai, sochaa aap sab ko bhi sunaati chaluuN:
>
> ghar meN ab a'afiyat se baiThe haiN
> saari dunyaa ko ham Khafaa kar ke
>
> ________Zoya :)

***Correction:
1. yeh she'r mera nahiiN, Allama Iqbal ka hai.
2. is ke pahle misr'e meN lafz "ab" ki bajaaye "kis" hai ------ ghar meN kis 'aafiyat se baiThe haiN.

R.K.***

On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 10:23:26 AM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:

> ***Correction:
> 1. yeh she'r mera nahiiN, Allama Iqbal ka hai.

RK sahib,

Right, mujhe kehnaa chaahiye tha "RK sahib se".
chaliye is bahaane aap mehfil meN lauT to aaye. :-)

> 2. is ke pahle misr'e meN lafz "ab" ki bajaaye "kis" hai ------ ghar meN kis 'aafiyat se baiThe haiN.

> R.K.***

Thanks, this one I will own for sure, but you should still be proud that ek baar sun lene par aise she'r mujhe yaad reh jaate haiN. isii liye to aap ki 'favorite pupil' huuN. :-)

________Zoya

On Saturday, 4 September 2021 at 16:23:26 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:50:11 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> > abhi Haal hi meN maiN ne RK Qais sahib kaa ek she'r sunaa, jo mere zehn meN aTak gayaa hai, sochaa aap sab ko bhi sunaati chaluuN:
> >
> > ghar meN ab a'afiyat se baiThe haiN
> > saari dunyaa ko ham Khafaa kar ke
> >
> > ________Zoya :)
> ***Correction:
> 1. yeh she'r mera nahiiN, Allama Iqbal ka hai.
> 2. is ke pahle misr'e meN lafz "ab" ki bajaaye "kis" hai ------ ghar meN kis 'aafiyat se baiThe haiN.
>
> R.K.***

Raj Kumar SaaHib, do you know which book of Iqbal this shi3r belongs to?

Naseer

On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 9:09:29 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 10:23:26 AM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
>
> > ***Correction:
> > 1. yeh she'r mera nahiiN, Allama Iqbal ka hai.

> RK sahib,
>
> Right, mujhe kehnaa chaahiye tha "RK sahib se".

***That would have been better!***

> chaliye is bahaane aap mehfil meN lauT to aaye. :-)

***Correction:

ZS, maiN is maHfil se uTh to nahiiN gayaa tha jo aap mere "lauT aane" ki kah rahi haiN. bas, pichhle dinoN tabii'at kuchh naasaaz si rahne lagii thi jis ki vajah se mujhe gosha-nishiinii iKhtiyaar karna paRii thi.***

> > 2. is ke pahle misr'e meN lafz "ab" ki bajaaye "kis" hai ------ ghar meN kis 'aafiyat se baiThe haiN.
>
> > R.K.***
> Thanks, this one I will own for sure, but you should still be proud that ek baar sun lene par aise she'r mujhe yaad reh jaate haiN. isii liye to aap ki 'favorite pupil' huuN. :-)

***Correction:

ZS, kisi bhi she'r ko fauran azbar kar lenaa baRii Khuubii ki baat hai BA-SHART-K aap ki yaad-kardagii 100% saHiiH ho. adabii liHaaz se, aek bhi lafz ka her-pher naa-ravaa hai. is liye k ---------------

1. agar aap paaNch-saat baras ba'ad yeh she'r kisi ko isii suurat sunaa'eN aur voh shaKhs kahe k yeh she'r aise nahiiN, aise hai to aap kyaa kaheN gi? yihii naa k "maiN ne to jaise kisii se sunaa thaa, vaise hi aap ko sunaa rahi huuN". goyaa, qusuur she'r sunaane vaale ka tha, na k aap ki "slippery" yaad-daasht ka.

2. That is why this particular event is no reason for me to feel proud of you, though there have been many events in the past (and, I am sure, there will be many in the future) for me to feel so. :-)

3. Even so, I am glad that the version you gave to this she'r was at least in baHr, though that I have come to expect of you on all occasions.

Finally, please don't bother to respond to each and every point in this post --- please don't. You better instead post for us a fresh she'r which satisfies the following requirement by FG:

mutrib se yeh kah do k is aNdaaz se gaaye
har dil pe lage choT si, har aaNkh bhar aaye!

yeh alag baat k hamaari muraad yahaaN gaane se nahiiN, she'r-go'ii se hai! :-)

R.K.***

On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 11:28:43 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:

> ZS, maiN is maHfil se uTh to nahiiN gayaa tha jo aap mere "lauT aane" ki kah rahi haiN. bas, pichhle dinoN tabii'at kuchh naasaaz si rahne lagii thi jis ki vajah se mujhe gosha-nishiinii iKhtiyaar karna paRii thi.***

RK sahib,

I am so glad you are feeling better. salaamat rahiye.

> ZS, kisi bhi she'r ko fauran azbar kar lenaa baRii Khuubii ki baat hai BA-SHART-K aap ki yaad-kardagii 100% saHiiH ho. adabii liHaaz se, aek bhi lafz ka her-pher naa-ravaa hai. is liye k ---------------
>
> 1. agar aap paaNch-saat baras ba'ad yeh she'r kisi ko isii suurat sunaa'eN aur voh shaKhs kahe k yeh she'r aise nahiiN, aise hai to aap kyaa kaheN gi? yihii naa k "maiN ne to jaise kisii se sunaa thaa, vaise hi aap ko sunaa rahi huuN". goyaa, qusuur she'r sunaane vaale ka tha, na k aap ki "slippery" yaad-daasht ka.
>
> 2. That is why this particular event is no reason for me to feel proud of you, though there have been many events in the past (and, I am sure, there will be many in the future) for me to feel so. :-)
>
> 3. Even so, I am glad that the version you gave to this she'r was at least in baHr, though that I have come to expect of you on all occasions.
>
> Finally, please don't bother to respond to each and every point in this post --- please don't.

I won't. :) But please at least allow me to say that I agree with you 100%. I apologize. I should not be making even minor errors when quoting such asha'ar. As a puritan, and more so as an academic, it also bothers me tremendously when such errors get propagated.

You better instead post for us a fresh she'r which satisfies the following requirement by FG:
>
> mutrib se yeh kah do k is aNdaaz se gaaye
> har dil pe lage choT si, har aaNkh bhar aaye!
>
> yeh alag baat k hamaari muraad yahaaN gaane se nahiiN, she'r-go'ii se hai! :-)
>
> R.K.***

I have the perfect she'r for you, let me post it separately.

Be right back,

_______Zoya