On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > > > > If it is a true story, of course.
> > > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
> > > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
> > Why should he?
> >
> > Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.
> They need to prove it to the group, not just me.
>
> 🙂
The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work..
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > > > > > If it is a true story, of course.
> > > > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
> > > > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
> > > Why should he?
> > >
> > > Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.
> > They need to prove it to the group, not just me.
> >
> > 🙂
> The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 5:01:55 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait..
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive.. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > > > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > > > > > > If it is a true story, of course.
> > > > > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
> > > > > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
> > > > Why should he?
> > > >
> > > > Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.
> > > They need to prove it to the group, not just me.
> > >
> > > 🙂
> > The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
> I sincerely doubt that the person in question would be unhappy with you for what you’ve mentioned about him.
> Everything you’ve posted has been complimentary, without divulging names or any confidential information.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 5:01:55 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait..
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive.. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > > > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > > > > > > If it is a true story, of course.
> > > > > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
> > > > > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
> > > > Why should he?
> > > >
> > > > Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.
> > > They need to prove it to the group, not just me.
> > >
> > > 🙂
> > The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
> I sincerely doubt that the person in question would be unhappy with you for what you’ve mentioned about him.
> Everything you’ve posted has been complimentary, without divulging names or any confidential information.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 6:05:11 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 5:01:55 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books..
> > > > > > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > > > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > > > > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > > > > > > > If it is a true story, of course.
> > > > > > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
> > > > > > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
> > > > > Why should he?
> > > > >
> > > > > Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.
> > > > They need to prove it to the group, not just me.
> > > >
> > > > 🙂
> > > The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
> > I sincerely doubt that the person in question would be unhappy with you for what you’ve mentioned about him.
> > Everything you’ve posted has been complimentary, without divulging names or any confidential information.
> Thanks, Corey, I sincerely appreciate that.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work..
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021

[...]

> > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.

> The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.

Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have....?

What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?

Zod wrote:

> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work..
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021

> [...]

>> > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.

>> The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.

> Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have....?

> What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?

Yes, the unpublished Kerouac manuscript is the most interesting detail.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > > On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > >> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> My Father's House
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> ~~
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > >> >> > >> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > >> >> > >> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > >> >> > >> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > >> >> > >> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > >> >> > >> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > >> >> > >> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > >> >> > >> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > >> >> > >> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > >> >> > > “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > >> >> > > from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > >> >> > > and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > >> >> > > subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > >> >> > that.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > >> >> > thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned.. If someone
> > > > > > >> >> > thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > >> >> > titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > >> >> > were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > >> >> > was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > >> >> > interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > > Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > >> >> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > >> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > Not really.
> >
> > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >
> > Look it up.
> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work..
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > > > > > If it is a true story, of course.
> > > > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
> > > > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
> > > Why should he?
> > >
> > > Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.
> > They need to prove it to the group, not just me.
> >
> > 🙂
> The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:49:37 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Sure, Pendragon, Robert mentioned this Jack Kerouac scholar that he said he knows, so of course I and other members of the group would like to know more about the person.

Don't speak for me, Trump of this dump. We're not as stupid as you lead yourself to believe-- we know you only want to know so to smear and belittle your foe.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > > > > If it is a true story, of course.
> > > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
> > > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
> > Why should he?
> >
> > Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.
> They need to prove it to the group, not just me.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:26:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 3:58:02 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > [...]
> > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
> > Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have....?
> That's big news, if true.
> > What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?

Ash Wurthing wrote:

> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:49:37 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Sure, Pendragon, Robert mentioned this Jack Kerouac scholar that he said he knows, so of course I and other members of the group would like to know more about the person.

> Don't speak for me

I didn't.

🙂

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 8:09:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:32:25 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:26:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 3:58:02 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places..
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > [...]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
> > > > Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have.....?
> > > That's big news, if true.
> > > > What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?
> > If true?
> Sure, unpunished Kerouac would be fantastic, if it exists.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 8:09:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:32:25 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:26:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 3:58:02 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places..
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > [...]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
> > > > Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have.....?
> > > That's big news, if true.
> > > > What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?
> > If true?
> Sure, unpunished Kerouac would be fantastic, if it exists.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 8:40:50 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 8:19:06 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 8:09:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:32:25 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:26:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 3:58:02 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords.. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
> > > > > > Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have....?
> > > > > That's big news, if true.
> > > > > > What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?
> > > > If true?
> > > Sure, unpublished Jack Kerouac would be fantastic, if it exists.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> > Unpunished? Funny.
>
> Autocorrect typo, now corrected.

Ash Wurthing wrote:

> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 8:09:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:32:25 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:26:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 3:58:02 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places..
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>> > > > [...]
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
>> > > > > The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
>> > > > Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have.....?
>> > > That's big news, if true.
>> > > > What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?
>> > If true?
>> Sure, unpublished Kerouac would be fantastic, if it exists.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 8:09:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:32:25 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:26:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 3:58:02 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places..
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > [...]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
> > > > Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have.....?
> > > That's big news, if true.
> > > > What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?
> > If true?
> Sure, unpunished Kerouac would be fantastic, if it exists.

On 2022-12-02 3:58 p.m., Zod wrote:
> [...]
>
>>>>>>>>>> Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
>
>> The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
>
> Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have....?
>
> What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?

Wdll, you'll learn that everything in the books is wrong. For example,
books will tell you that Kerouac turned to heavy drinking after /OTR/
because he lost his privacy. It's only Bobby Burro's "friend" who'll let
you know the real reason: that "Discovering that his most well known
book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack
Kerouac drank himself to death." (Yes, the "friend" specifically
mentioned you and Will.) That's something you'll never read in a book,
at least as long as the "unpublished manuscript" stays unpublished.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 10:19:29 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-12-02 3:58 p.m., Zod wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >>>>>>>>>> Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> >
> >> The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
> >
> > Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have....?
> >
> > What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?
> Wdll, you'll learn that everything in the books is wrong. For example,
> books will tell you that Kerouac turned to heavy drinking after /OTR/
> because he lost his privacy. It's only Bobby Burro's "friend" who'll let
> you know the real reason: that "Discovering that his most well known
> book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack
> Kerouac drank himself to death." (Yes, the "friend" specifically
> mentioned you and Will.) That's something you'll never read in a book,
> at least as long as the "unpublished manuscript" stays unpublished.

Amazing, Jack Kerouac had to be a time traveler.

🙂

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 10:19:29 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-12-02 3:58 p.m., Zod wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >>>>>>>>>> Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> >
> >> The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
> >
> > Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have....?
> >
> > What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?
> Wdll, you'll learn that everything in the books is wrong. For example,
> books will tell you that Kerouac turned to heavy drinking after /OTR/
> because he lost his privacy. It's only Bobby Burro's "friend" who'll let
> you know the real reason: that "Discovering that his most well known
> book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack
> Kerouac drank himself to death." (Yes, the "friend" specifically
> mentioned you and Will.) That's something you'll never read in a book,
> at least as long as the "unpublished manuscript" stays unpublished.

His friend did not specifically mention the Donkey and his Stink, George. Kerouac died before the Donkey and his Stink had "published" any of their work.

He turned to drink because a lot of illiterate, drug-addled drop-outs began imitating his work (which, from what I've read of it, would require no more than a grade school education).

A writer is judged, in part, by his audience.

I would rather my work was admired by one intelligent person than by 7.8 billion idiots.

Apparently, Jack drew the line at illiterate, sub-moronic pissbums.

Go figure.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 10:19:29 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-12-02 3:58 p.m., Zod wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >>>>>>>>>> Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> >
> >> The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
> >
> > Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have....?
> >
> > What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?
> Wdll, you'll learn that everything in the books is wrong. For example,
> books will tell you that Kerouac turned to heavy drinking after /OTR/
> because he lost his privacy. It's only Bobby Burro's "friend" who'll let
> you know the real reason: that "Discovering that his most well known
> book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack
> Kerouac drank himself to death." (Yes, the "friend" specifically
> mentioned you and Will.) That's something you'll never read in a book,
> at least as long as the "unpublished manuscript"

I'm seriously thinking about visiting a friend in Kingston, Ontario sometime in early January 2023, George, perhaps we can discuss it then, face to face, man to man.

Ash Wurthing wrote:

> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish, p
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
>> > > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
>> > > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
>> > > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
>> > > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
>> > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
>> > > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
>> > > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
>> > > > > If it is a true story, of course.
>> > > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
>> > > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
>> > Why should he?
>> >
>> > Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.
>> They need to prove it to the group, not just me.

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:39:22 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Zod wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago..
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work..
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six..
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > [...]
> >> > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> >> The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
>
> > Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have....?
>
> > What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?
> Yes, the unpublished Kerouac manuscript is the most interesting detail.
I'm through treating you as anything but the retarded Donkey that you prove yourself to be with every word that you type. Your fate is sealed, and your end will be lingering, and lonesome. Your one and only epiphany will be a realization, at the very end, of the utter waste that your entire life has been. Then darkness forever in a pauper's unmarked, unvisited grave. Goodbye, Will.

Robert Burrows wrote:

> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 10:19:29 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-12-02 3:58 p.m., Zod wrote:
>> > [...]
>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>> Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
>> >
>> >> The person in question is a very private person who wouldn't be happy knowing that I mentioned anything about him in this forum. I'll tell you that I met him at a record show in 1986 and that he approached me about taping the copy of the 10 disc vinyl Dylan bootleg called Ten Of Swords. He has a mind-boggling record collection, and it's because of him that my musical world encompasses everyone from Benny Goodman to Albert Ayler, Dean Martin to Tuvan Throat Singers. I owe him a lot.
>> >
>> > Cool.... which "unpublished" Jack Kerouac manuscript does he have....?
>> >
>> > What did he learn about Kerouac when they were friends that we don't know from the massive amoun of autobiographical information on J.K. that we already have...?
>> Wdll, you'll learn that everything in the books is wrong. For example,
>> books will tell you that Kerouac turned to heavy drinking after /OTR/
>> because he lost his privacy. It's only Bobby Burro's "friend" who'll let
>> you know the real reason: that "Discovering that his most well known
>> book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack
>> Kerouac drank himself to death." (Yes, the "friend" specifically
>> mentioned you and Will.) That's something you'll never read in a book,
>> at least as long as the "unpublished manuscript"

> I'm seriously thinking about visiting a friend in Kingston, Ontario sometime in early January 2023, George, perhaps we can discuss it then, face to face, man to man.

Great, hopefully George Dance will ask you for details on the allegedly unpublished Jack Kerouac manuscript, Robert.