On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 1:23:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Look who's talking.
>
> You constantly repeat yourself, Pendragon.
>
> Try not to be such a hypocrite.

IKYABWAI much, Donkey?

You'll try any tactic to avoid answering my question.

Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at

1:23:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> Look who's talking.
>>
>> You constantly repeat yourself, Pendragon.
>>
>> Try not to be such a hypocrite.

> IKYABWAI much

Again, look who's talking.

🙂

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:05:12 PM UTC-5, W.Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at
>
> 1:23:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> >> Look who's talking.
> >>
> >> You constantly repeat yourself, Pendragon.
> >>
> >> Try not to be such a hypocrite.
>
> > IKYABWAI much
> Again, look who's talking.

Just answer the question, Donkey:

Try really hard and see if you can *explain* how this ridiculous piece of doggerel verse is "well crafted," and share what thoughts it has allegedly provoked.

George Dance wrote:
> On 2022-12-04 3:41 p.m., Zod wrote:
>> > George Dance wrote:
>> >> On 2022-11-26 4:02 p.m., Zod wrote:
>> >>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>> My Father's House
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This is my father's house, although
>> >>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>> >>>> They said it would be quite all right
>> >>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>> >>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>> >>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>> >>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>> >>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>> >>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>> >>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>> >>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>> >>>> To be so many other places.
>> >>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>> >>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>> >>>> While watching my friends run and play
>> >>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>> >>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>> >>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>> >>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>> >>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>> >>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>> >>>> To read or play alone, and then
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>> >>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>> >>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>> >>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>> >>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>> >>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>> >>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ~~
>> >>>> George J. Dance
>> >>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>> >>>
>> >>> Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!
>> >> Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
>> >> but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.
>> >>
>> >> The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
>> >> one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her
>> >> complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the
>> >> speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
>> >> is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
>> >> over a decade makes that much clearer.
>> >>
>> >> As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
>> >> plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the
>> >> house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
>> >> It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
>> >> was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
>> >> but I wanted to keep that hidden.
>> >
>> > Cool... cool...
>> It's interesting; writing the first draft (which is most of the finished
>> poem) took 15 or 20 minutes; but I've made little tweaks that improved
>> it. One I thought of tonight, when I reread it, was how one person,
>> Karla I think, complained about two uses of "oh" in the last stanza,
>> which she said were just padding to fit the meter. Dennis Hammes advised
>> me to add "oh" in some earlier stanzas, which would make it "voice" - so
>> I did. I do have to agree that Dennis was right. The interjections don't
>> stick out at all; after hearing the speaker talk like that throughout
>> the poem, the reader can just accept them as how he talks.

Yes, like I mentioned earlier, it's written "in character".

HTH and HAND.

Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> Try really hard and see if you can *explain* how this ridiculous piece of doggerel verse is "well crafted,"

The quality of George's poem is obvious to the casual reader:

> My Father's House

> This is my father's house, although
> The man died thirteen years ago.
> They said it would be quite all right
> To take a drive to see it now.

> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> Toiling after each full day's work.
> I helped, though I was only six.

> Look, here's the back door I would use
> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> To be so many other places.
> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

> Outside, the garden that he grew
> Where I would work the summers through,
> While watching my friends run and play
> Mysterious games I never knew.

> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> The one chair I was let to sit?
> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> Which, the corner where boys were put?

> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> After the meal, to make no noise,
> To read or play alone, and then

> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> As for my father's belt I'd wait.

> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> Its flames would light up all the air.

> ~~
> George J. Dance
> from Logos and other logoi, 2021

Granted, not as good as T.S. Eliot, but a damned good, well crafted poem with an interesting topic, and, of course, a thousand times better than your second-handed , dreary doggerel, Pendragon.

HTH and HAND.

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:45:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > Try really hard and see if you can *explain* how this ridiculous piece of doggerel verse is "well crafted,"
> The quality of George's poem is obvious to the casual reader:
> > My Father's House
>
> > This is my father's house, although
> > The man died thirteen years ago.
> > They said it would be quite all right
> > To take a drive to see it now.
>
> > Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > Toiling after each full day's work.
> > I helped, though I was only six.
>
> > Look, here's the back door I would use
> > And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>
> > In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > To be so many other places.
> > (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>
> > Outside, the garden that he grew
> > Where I would work the summers through,
> > While watching my friends run and play
> > Mysterious games I never knew.
>
> > That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > The one chair I was let to sit?
> > (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > Which, the corner where boys were put?
>
> > Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > After the meal, to make no noise,
> > To read or play alone, and then
>
> > Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>
> > Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > Its flames would light up all the air.
>
> > ~~
> > George J. Dance
> > from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> Granted, not as good as T.S. Eliot, but a damned good, well crafted poem with an interesting topic, and, of course, a thousand times better than your second-handed , dreary doggerel, Pendragon.

Agreed and seconded...!

Zod wrote:

> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:45:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >
>> > Try really hard and see if you can *explain* how this ridiculous piece of doggerel verse is "well crafted,"
>> The quality of George's poem is obvious to the casual reader:
>> > My Father's House
>>
>> > This is my father's house, although
>> > The man died thirteen years ago.
>> > They said it would be quite all right
>> > To take a drive to see it now.
>>
>> > Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>> > And built the whole thing (from a box),
>> > Toiling after each full day's work.
>> > I helped, though I was only six.
>>
>> > Look, here's the back door I would use
>> > And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>> > To enter; there I'd leave my things
>> > And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>>
>> > In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>> > Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>> > To be so many other places.
>> > (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>>
>> > Outside, the garden that he grew
>> > Where I would work the summers through,
>> > While watching my friends run and play
>> > Mysterious games I never knew.
>>
>> > That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>> > The one chair I was let to sit?
>> > (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>> > Which, the corner where boys were put?
>>
>> > Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>> > Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>> > After the meal, to make no noise,
>> > To read or play alone, and then
>>
>> > Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>> > Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>> > Face and pyjama bottoms down
>> > As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>>
>> > Oh, if I were a millionaire
>> > I'd buy my father's house, and there
>> > I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>> > Its flames would light up all the air.
>>
>> > ~~
>> > George J. Dance
>> > from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>> Granted, not as good as T.S. Eliot, but a damned good, well crafted poem with an interesting topic, and, of course, a thousand times better than your second-handed , dreary doggerel, Pendragon.

> Agreed and seconded...!

Good evening, Zod, look out, the next Michael Pendragon meltdown is coming.

🙂

Zod wrote:

> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:45:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >
>> > Try really hard and see if you can *explain* how this ridiculous piece of doggerel verse is "well crafted,"
>> The quality of George's poem is obvious to the casual reader:
>> > My Father's House
>>
>> > This is my father's house, although
>> > The man died thirteen years ago.
>> > They said it would be quite all right
>> > To take a drive to see it now.
>>
>> > Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>> > And built the whole thing (from a box),
>> > Toiling after each full day's work.
>> > I helped, though I was only six.
>>
>> > Look, here's the back door I would use
>> > And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>> > To enter; there I'd leave my things
>> > And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>>
>> > In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>> > Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>> > To be so many other places.
>> > (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>>
>> > Outside, the garden that he grew
>> > Where I would work the summers through,
>> > While watching my friends run and play
>> > Mysterious games I never knew.
>>
>> > That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>> > The one chair I was let to sit?
>> > (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>> > Which, the corner where boys were put?
>>
>> > Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>> > Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>> > After the meal, to make no noise,
>> > To read or play alone, and then
>>
>> > Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>> > Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>> > Face and pyjama bottoms down
>> > As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>>
>> > Oh, if I were a millionaire
>> > I'd buy my father's house, and there
>> > I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>> > Its flames would light up all the air.
>>
>> > ~~
>> > George J. Dance
>> > from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>> Granted, not as good as T.S. Eliot, but a damned good, well crafted poem with an interesting topic, and, of course, a thousand times better than your second-handed , dreary doggerel, Pendragon.

> Agreed and seconded...!

Pendragon is in a delusional fog.

🙂

Okay, the only Jake I've noticed lately has been the actor Jake Gyllenhaal, who starred in a movie I watched a few days ago, "Prisoners":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_(2013_film)

On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 2:45:20 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> >> >>>On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 19:47:32 -0800 (PST), Will Dockery
>> >> >>>>> >On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 9:03:52 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> >> >>>>> >> On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 17:33:17 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
>> >> >>>>> >> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:03:34 -0800 (PST), FAKE Conley Brothers forged
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > <conleybro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 11:56:33 AM UTC-5, cocodeso...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>> > >Not that I believe you possess even an associate degree in liberal arts.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>> > Then you remain stupid. 1992. My doctoral dissertion is listed in
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>> Anyone who can't spell dissertation hasn't written one.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>The same goes for an idiot who can't properly spell the name of his alma mater:
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 10:53:26 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >> > M.A. in Political Science from Lehgih University.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>The more you type, the more of a moron you look like, "Mack".
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>You should just go. Your first mistake was allowing terminally unemployed Will Dockery and
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>vagrant George Sulzbach to suck up to you in hopes they could find an ally to support their lies.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>Maybe they should look into your trail of homophobia, misogyny and fat jokes that are all over Usenet since they are always crying/virtue signaling about those subjects.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > So many mentally-ill sock puppets in this group.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > And every one of them agreeing with erroneous and ridiculous
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > information from their fantasies and lies.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > I posted a poem. This is a poetry group, numbnuts..
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > You are your ilk are the only liars in this group..
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> For the record, check out who among us has the most actual poems on the board today.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> (Pats self on back)
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >You really haven't posted anything remotely resembling a poem, Donkey.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >HtH & HAND
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> Knock it off, fella. You are a grown and, hopefully, mature man.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> Let it be. If you don't like his poems, ignore them.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> What is the matter with some of the people in this group? It is not
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> normal.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >It's not normal, Jake. It's war.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Will Donkey spams his so-called "poetry" all over this group 24/7.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >It has nothing to do with our liking or disliking his "poetry."
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Will does this to bury everyone else's poetry and discussions under his continual deluge of spam.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Robert Burrows, a talented poet, left the group today because he got fed up with Will's constant b.s. (your arrival having been the proverbial final straw).
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >J.D. Senetto, another talented poet, left the group two weeks ago because he got fed up with Will's b.s.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Fortunately, both poets are still contributing to "A Year of Sundays."
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Will Donkey and his socks (George "Stink" Sulzbach, Isaac "Jordy" Chase, and George Dance) have already run AAPC into the ground, and are attempting to drive out the rest of us.
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Here's what Will had to say the last time he shut AAPC down:
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >"There's nobody here but me, Chuck. I've driven every last one of them away..!"
>> >> >>>>> >> >> >-- Will Dockery
>> >> >>>>> >> >> It doesn't matter. All of it doesn't matter.
>> >> >>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> You are creating this discord in your own mind. You are obsessed with
>> >> >>>>> >> >> it. Stop it, man!
>> >> >>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> It doesn't mean a hill of beans. Words on a screen. And meaningless.
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >It matters when people like Ash and I are trying bring other poets into the group.
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >I realize that you don't care what happens to AAPC. It's not your group, and you're not a poet.
>> >> >>>>> >> I know a few limericks.
>> >> >>>>> >> >You're just a lonely little man who wants to pretend that he's some sort of a scholar. As such, you're happy to foist yourself upon one group after another, only to end up sharing your vast knowledge of four-letter words and links to gay porn.
>> >> >>>>> >> Not lonely. I have two cats and a few friends. I have a soul mate,
>> >> >>>>> >> too, who loves me very much and several Mexican families.
>> >> >>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> You would like to think that I am a "lonely little man", but, see,
>> >> >>>>> >> that is a BIG part of the problem in here: YOUR DELUSIONS.
>> >> >>>>> >> >Those of us who are trying to turn AAPC into a group where poets can meet to share and discuss their poetry, have a lot more invested in the outcome of this war than you.
>> >> >>>>> >> You see this poetry group as a war? That''s the locus of the problem
>> >> >>>>> >> in here.
>> >> >>>>> >> >It isn't the childish words posted by a handful of illiterate morons that bother us. It's the fact that those words keep other poets from joining AAPC, and drive those who have joined away.
>> >> >>>>> >> Oh, don't be daft. Usenet is alsmost dead. People like you killed
>> >> >>>>> >> it.
>> >> >>>>> >> >You've seen fit to make yourself part of the problem. I strongly suggest that you bow out, take some time figuring out what's actually going on here, and come back with a more civil manner and tone.
>> >> >>>>> >> Not part of the problem, but pointing OUT the problem, and that is
>> >> >>>>> >> YOU! (Really, it is, but you are blind to it).
>> >> >>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> The fighting settled down today, but here we go - you had to fan the
>> >> >>>>> >> flames. You are a sick boy.
>> >> >>>>> >
>> >> >>>>> >You've got that right, Mack.
>> >> >>>>> >
>> >> >>>>> >No way a sane person would constantly wallow in the bizarre death fantasies the way Pendragon does.
>> >> >>>>> His name is a nom de plume. His real name:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Author: Michael Malefica Pendragon. Author Record # 120444
>> >> >>>>> Legal Name: Scarlotti, Michelangelo
>> >> >>>>> Birthplace: New Jersey, USA
>> >> >>>>> Birthdate: 23 October 1963
>> >> >>>>> Language: English
>> >> >>>>> Webpages: thehypertexts.com, wikibin.org
>> >> >>>>> Used These Alternate Names: M. Malefica Grendlewolf Pendragon Le Fay,
>> >> >>>>> M. Malefica Grendelwolf Pendragon Le Fay, Michael Maleficia Pendragon,
>> >> >>>>> Michael M. Pendragon, Michael Pendragon, Michael Malificent Pendragon
>> >> >>>>> Author Tags: kafkaesque (1)
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> https://isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?120444
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>I remember reading old Usenet posts when he went by Scarlatti but I didn't think it was his real name.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Just call him "Spike".
>> >> >
>> >> >> https://www.facebook.com/michelangelospike.scarlatti/
>> >> >
>> >> >Could be, but it doesn't quite look like the photos Pendragon has posted.
>> >> >
>> >> >In those photos, Pendragon looks a bit like Frank Sutton (Sgt. Carter) with long hair.
>> >> >
>> >> >Here's Pendragon's YouTube channel:
>> >> >
>> >> >https://youtube.com/@MaleficaPendragon
>> >> That photo on the link I posted was taken a long time ago. Look at
>> >> the facial similarities in his current page.
>> >>
>> >> https://www.facebook.com/michael.pendragon.31
>> >
>> >Mack, you might want to look at the Facebook page quickly, Pendragon has me blocked there.
>> I can access it.
>>
>> Here is his profile photo from his new account. Compare it with the
>> old account.
>>
>> https://ibb.co/7pN7S0x

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 12:55:32 -0800 (PST), Zod <vhugofan@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 2:45:20 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> >> >>>On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 19:47:32 -0800 (PST), Will Dockery
>>> >> >>>>> >On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 9:03:52 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> >> >>>>> >> On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 17:33:17 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
>>> >> >>>>> >> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:03:34 -0800 (PST), FAKE Conley Brothers forged
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > <conleybro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 11:56:33 AM UTC-5, cocodeso...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>> > >Not that I believe you possess even an associate degree in liberal arts.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>> > Then you remain stupid. 1992. My doctoral dissertion is listed in
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>> Anyone who can't spell dissertation hasn't written one.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>The same goes for an idiot who can't properly spell the name of his alma mater:
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 10:53:26 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >> > M.A. in Political Science from Lehgih University.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>The more you type, the more of a moron you look like, "Mack".
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>You should just go. Your first mistake was allowing terminally unemployed Will Dockery and
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>vagrant George Sulzbach to suck up to you in hopes they could find an ally to support their lies.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>Maybe they should look into your trail of homophobia, misogyny and fat jokes that are all over Usenet since they are always crying/virtue signaling about those subjects.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > So many mentally-ill sock puppets in this group.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > And every one of them agreeing with erroneous and ridiculous
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > information from their fantasies and lies.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > I posted a poem. This is a poetry group, numbnuts.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > You are your ilk are the only liars in this group.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> For the record, check out who among us has the most actual poems on the board today.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> (Pats self on back)
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >You really haven't posted anything remotely resembling a poem, Donkey.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >HtH & HAND
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> Knock it off, fella. You are a grown and, hopefully, mature man.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> Let it be. If you don't like his poems, ignore them.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> What is the matter with some of the people in this group? It is not
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> normal.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >It's not normal, Jake. It's war.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Will Donkey spams his so-called "poetry" all over this group 24/7.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >It has nothing to do with our liking or disliking his "poetry."
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Will does this to bury everyone else's poetry and discussions under his continual deluge of spam.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Robert Burrows, a talented poet, left the group today because he got fed up with Will's constant b.s. (your arrival having been the proverbial final straw).
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >J.D. Senetto, another talented poet, left the group two weeks ago because he got fed up with Will's b.s.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Fortunately, both poets are still contributing to "A Year of Sundays."
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Will Donkey and his socks (George "Stink" Sulzbach, Isaac "Jordy" Chase, and George Dance) have already run AAPC into the ground, and are attempting to drive out the rest of us.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Here's what Will had to say the last time he shut AAPC down:
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >"There's nobody here but me, Chuck. I've driven every last one of them away..!"
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >-- Will Dockery
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> It doesn't matter. All of it doesn't matter.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> You are creating this discord in your own mind. You are obsessed with
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> it. Stop it, man!
>>> >> >>>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> >> It doesn't mean a hill of beans. Words on a screen. And meaningless.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >It matters when people like Ash and I are trying bring other poets into the group.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >
>>> >> >>>>> >> >I realize that you don't care what happens to AAPC. It's not your group, and you're not a poet.
>>> >> >>>>> >> I know a few limericks.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >You're just a lonely little man who wants to pretend that he's some sort of a scholar. As such, you're happy to foist yourself upon one group after another, only to end up sharing your vast knowledge of four-letter words and links to gay porn.
>>> >> >>>>> >> Not lonely. I have two cats and a few friends. I have a soul mate,
>>> >> >>>>> >> too, who loves me very much and several Mexican families.
>>> >> >>>>> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> You would like to think that I am a "lonely little man", but, see,
>>> >> >>>>> >> that is a BIG part of the problem in here: YOUR DELUSIONS.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >Those of us who are trying to turn AAPC into a group where poets can meet to share and discuss their poetry, have a lot more invested in the outcome of this war than you.
>>> >> >>>>> >> You see this poetry group as a war? That''s the locus of the problem
>>> >> >>>>> >> in here.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >It isn't the childish words posted by a handful of illiterate morons that bother us. It's the fact that those words keep other poets from joining AAPC, and drive those who have joined away.
>>> >> >>>>> >> Oh, don't be daft. Usenet is alsmost dead. People like you killed
>>> >> >>>>> >> it.
>>> >> >>>>> >> >You've seen fit to make yourself part of the problem. I strongly suggest that you bow out, take some time figuring out what's actually going on here, and come back with a more civil manner and tone.
>>> >> >>>>> >> Not part of the problem, but pointing OUT the problem, and that is
>>> >> >>>>> >> YOU! (Really, it is, but you are blind to it).
>>> >> >>>>> >>
>>> >> >>>>> >> The fighting settled down today, but here we go - you had to fan the
>>> >> >>>>> >> flames. You are a sick boy.
>>> >> >>>>> >
>>> >> >>>>> >You've got that right, Mack.
>>> >> >>>>> >
>>> >> >>>>> >No way a sane person would constantly wallow in the bizarre death fantasies the way Pendragon does.
>>> >> >>>>> His name is a nom de plume. His real name:
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> Author: Michael Malefica Pendragon. Author Record # 120444
>>> >> >>>>> Legal Name: Scarlotti, Michelangelo
>>> >> >>>>> Birthplace: New Jersey, USA
>>> >> >>>>> Birthdate: 23 October 1963
>>> >> >>>>> Language: English
>>> >> >>>>> Webpages: thehypertexts.com, wikibin.org
>>> >> >>>>> Used These Alternate Names: M. Malefica Grendlewolf Pendragon Le Fay,
>>> >> >>>>> M. Malefica Grendelwolf Pendragon Le Fay, Michael Maleficia Pendragon,
>>> >> >>>>> Michael M. Pendragon, Michael Pendragon, Michael Malificent Pendragon
>>> >> >>>>> Author Tags: kafkaesque (1)
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> https://isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?120444
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>I remember reading old Usenet posts when he went by Scarlatti but I didn't think it was his real name.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>Just call him "Spike".
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> https://www.facebook.com/michelangelospike.scarlatti/
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Could be, but it doesn't quite look like the photos Pendragon has posted.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >In those photos, Pendragon looks a bit like Frank Sutton (Sgt. Carter) with long hair.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Here's Pendragon's YouTube channel:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >https://youtube.com/@MaleficaPendragon
>>> >> That photo on the link I posted was taken a long time ago. Look at
>>> >> the facial similarities in his current page.
>>> >>
>>> >> https://www.facebook.com/michael.pendragon.31
>>> >
>>> >Mack, you might want to look at the Facebook page quickly, Pendragon has me blocked there.
>>> I can access it.
>>>
>>> Here is his profile photo from his new account. Compare it with the
>>> old account.
>>>
>>> https://ibb.co/7pN7S0x
>
>Perhaps...!

Mack A. Damia wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 12:55:32 -0800 (PST), Zod <vhugofan@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>>On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 2:45:20 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>> >> >>>On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 19:47:32 -0800 (PST), Will Dockery
>>>> >> >>>>> >On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 9:03:52 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>> >> On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 17:33:17 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
>>>> >> >>>>> >> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:03:34 -0800 (PST), FAKE Conley Brothers forged
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > <conleybro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 11:56:33 AM UTC-5, cocodeso...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>> > >Not that I believe you possess even an associate degree in liberal arts.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>> > Then you remain stupid. 1992. My doctoral dissertion is listed in
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>> Anyone who can't spell dissertation hasn't written one.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>The same goes for an idiot who can't properly spell the name of his alma mater:
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 10:53:26 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >> > M.A. in Political Science from Lehgih University.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>The more you type, the more of a moron you look like, "Mack".
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>You should just go. Your first mistake was allowing terminally unemployed Will Dockery and
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>vagrant George Sulzbach to suck up to you in hopes they could find an ally to support their lies.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>Maybe they should look into your trail of homophobia, misogyny and fat jokes that are all over Usenet since they are always crying/virtue signaling about those subjects.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > So many mentally-ill sock puppets in this group.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > And every one of them agreeing with erroneous and ridiculous
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > information from their fantasies and lies.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > I posted a poem. This is a poetry group, numbnuts.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> > You are your ilk are the only liars in this group.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> For the record, check out who among us has the most actual poems on the board today.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> (Pats self on back)
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >You really haven't posted anything remotely resembling a poem, Donkey.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >HtH & HAND
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> Knock it off, fella. You are a grown and, hopefully, mature man.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> Let it be. If you don't like his poems, ignore them.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> What is the matter with some of the people in this group? It is not
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> normal.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >It's not normal, Jake. It's war.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Will Donkey spams his so-called "poetry" all over this group 24/7.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >It has nothing to do with our liking or disliking his "poetry."
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Will does this to bury everyone else's poetry and discussions under his continual deluge of spam.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Robert Burrows, a talented poet, left the group today because he got fed up with Will's constant b.s. (your arrival having been the proverbial final straw).
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >J.D. Senetto, another talented poet, left the group two weeks ago because he got fed up with Will's b.s.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Fortunately, both poets are still contributing to "A Year of Sundays."
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Will Donkey and his socks (George "Stink" Sulzbach, Isaac "Jordy" Chase, and George Dance) have already run AAPC into the ground, and are attempting to drive out the rest of us.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >Here's what Will had to say the last time he shut AAPC down:
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >"There's nobody here but me, Chuck. I've driven every last one of them away..!"
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >-- Will Dockery
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> It doesn't matter. All of it doesn't matter.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> You are creating this discord in your own mind. You are obsessed with
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> it. Stop it, man!
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> It doesn't mean a hill of beans. Words on a screen. And meaningless.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >It matters when people like Ash and I are trying bring other poets into the group.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >I realize that you don't care what happens to AAPC. It's not your group, and you're not a poet.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> I know a few limericks.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >You're just a lonely little man who wants to pretend that he's some sort of a scholar. As such, you're happy to foist yourself upon one group after another, only to end up sharing your vast knowledge of four-letter words and links to gay porn.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> Not lonely. I have two cats and a few friends. I have a soul mate,
>>>> >> >>>>> >> too, who loves me very much and several Mexican families.
>>>> >> >>>>> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> You would like to think that I am a "lonely little man", but, see,
>>>> >> >>>>> >> that is a BIG part of the problem in here: YOUR DELUSIONS.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >Those of us who are trying to turn AAPC into a group where poets can meet to share and discuss their poetry, have a lot more invested in the outcome of this war than you.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> You see this poetry group as a war? That''s the locus of the problem
>>>> >> >>>>> >> in here.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >It isn't the childish words posted by a handful of illiterate morons that bother us. It's the fact that those words keep other poets from joining AAPC, and drive those who have joined away.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> Oh, don't be daft. Usenet is alsmost dead. People like you killed
>>>> >> >>>>> >> it.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> >You've seen fit to make yourself part of the problem. I strongly suggest that you bow out, take some time figuring out what's actually going on here, and come back with a more civil manner and tone.
>>>> >> >>>>> >> Not part of the problem, but pointing OUT the problem, and that is
>>>> >> >>>>> >> YOU! (Really, it is, but you are blind to it).
>>>> >> >>>>> >>
>>>> >> >>>>> >> The fighting settled down today, but here we go - you had to fan the
>>>> >> >>>>> >> flames. You are a sick boy.
>>>> >> >>>>> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >You've got that right, Mack.
>>>> >> >>>>> >
>>>> >> >>>>> >No way a sane person would constantly wallow in the bizarre death fantasies the way Pendragon does.
>>>> >> >>>>> His name is a nom de plume. His real name:
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> Author: Michael Malefica Pendragon. Author Record # 120444
>>>> >> >>>>> Legal Name: Scarlotti, Michelangelo
>>>> >> >>>>> Birthplace: New Jersey, USA
>>>> >> >>>>> Birthdate: 23 October 1963
>>>> >> >>>>> Language: English
>>>> >> >>>>> Webpages: thehypertexts.com, wikibin.org
>>>> >> >>>>> Used These Alternate Names: M. Malefica Grendlewolf Pendragon Le Fay,
>>>> >> >>>>> M. Malefica Grendelwolf Pendragon Le Fay, Michael Maleficia Pendragon,
>>>> >> >>>>> Michael M. Pendragon, Michael Pendragon, Michael Malificent Pendragon
>>>> >> >>>>> Author Tags: kafkaesque (1)
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> https://isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?120444
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>>I remember reading old Usenet posts when he went by Scarlatti but I didn't think it was his real name.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>Just call him "Spike".
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >> https://www.facebook.com/michelangelospike.scarlatti/
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Could be, but it doesn't quite look like the photos Pendragon has posted.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >In those photos, Pendragon looks a bit like Frank Sutton (Sgt. Carter) with long hair.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Here's Pendragon's YouTube channel:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >https://youtube.com/@MaleficaPendragon
>>>> >> That photo on the link I posted was taken a long time ago. Look at
>>>> >> the facial similarities in his current page.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> https://www.facebook.com/michael.pendragon.31
>>>> >
>>>> >Mack, you might want to look at the Facebook page quickly, Pendragon has me blocked there.
>>>> I can access it.
>>>>
>>>> Here is his profile photo from his new account. Compare it with the
>>>> old account.
>>>>
>>>> https://ibb.co/7pN7S0x
>>
>>Perhaps...!

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:47:12 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:11:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > >>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > >
> > > > Not really.
> > > >
> > > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > >
> > > > Look it up.
> > > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
> > >
> > > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
> > > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
> > > his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
> > > years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
> > > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
> > > indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
> > > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
> > > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
> > > by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
> > > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
> > > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
> > But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.
> Your reading proficiency deficiency and lack of nuance fluency is showing through
>
> As you say, what you say just looks like your opinion...
>
> Firstly, no can see your flawed logic..

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 6:38:34 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > > > > > If it is a true story, of course.
> > > > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
> > > > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
> > > Why should he?
> > >
> > > Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.
> > They need to prove it to the group, not just me.
> No, "they" don't. Despite your ego blowing, no one else is demanding that "they" prove their selves.
> It's called something that you do not know of. It's called respect. Due to my respect of Mr Burrows, I have no reasons to suspect what he says.

What Bobby said was that "Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you [Will] and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death." Which is nonsense, since Kerouac wouldn't have compared anyone to Will or Zod, for the simple reason that he didn't even know who Will or Zod were.

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 12:23:04 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 11:54:03 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > > On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 6:06:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> On 2022-12-04 3:41 p.m., Zod wrote:
> > >> > George Dance wrote:
> > >> >> On 2022-11-26 4:02 p.m., Zod wrote:
> > >> >>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>>> My Father's House
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> This is my father's house, although
> > >> >>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > >> >>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > >> >>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > >> >>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > >> >>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > >> >>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > >> >>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > >> >>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > >> >>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > >> >>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > >> >>>> To be so many other places.
> > >> >>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > >> >>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > >> >>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > >> >>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > >> >>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > >> >>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > >> >>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > >> >>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > >> >>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > >> >>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > >> >>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > >> >>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > >> >>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > >> >>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > >> >>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > >> >>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> ~~
> > >> >>>> George J. Dance
> > >> >>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!
> > >> >> Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
> > >> >> but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
> > >> >> one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her
> > >> >> complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the
> > >> >> speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
> > >> >> is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
> > >> >> over a decade makes that much clearer.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
> > >> >> plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the
> > >> >> house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
> > >> >> It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
> > >> >> was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
> > >> >> but I wanted to keep that hidden.
> > >> >
> > >> > Cool... cool...
> > >> It's interesting; writing the first draft (which is most of the finished
> > >> poem) took 15 or 20 minutes; but I've made little tweaks that improved
> > >> it. One I thought of tonight, when I reread it, was how one person,
> > >> Karla I think, complained about two uses of "oh" in the last stanza,
> > >> which she said were just padding to fit the meter. Dennis Hammes advised
> > >> me to add "oh" in some earlier stanzas, which would make it "voice" - so
> > >> I did. I do have to agree that Dennis was right. The interjections don't
> > >> stick out at all; after hearing the speaker talk like that throughout
> > >> the poem, the reader can just accept them as how he talks.
> >
> > > Regardless of how your rationalize them, they come across as filler.
> > Troll much, Pendragon?
>
> Constructive criticism is not trolling, Donkey.
>
> George's "Oh"s serve no purpose in his poem other than to pad out the lines for metrical purposes.

Once again I have to disagree. As Dennis was referencing, natural speech is full of interjections like 'um,'
'er,' 'ah, and 'oh',.' and recognizing that can help you write more natural-sounding speech. The only one that I think actually improves the poem is "oh so high" in the penultimate line, which for me captures the childlike voice perfectly (in a way that swapping it out for something like "very high" would not).

> That sort of padding is amateurish, and hurts what is already a severely flawed poem.
>
> As previously noted, the light verse style is ill-suited to the subject matter, and the poem should be re-written as blank verse, free verse, or prose.

On the surface, a nice children's-verse type rhyme is perfectly suited to a poem about one's childhood memories. The speaker's imagining himself as a child, thinking and responding as a child, and the verse form reflects that..

Of course, since it isn't a poem for children, there's a discord between the verse and the subject matter; the poem is dissonant, which poems are not supposed to be. But the form/content dissonance is interesting, and makes it stand out. That last isn't a comment on my own work -- I'm thinking of its use in songs like "Mack the Knife" and "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" -- but it's something I've experimented with in other poems as well, like "The Dwarf beneath the Bed" and one you published in AYOS, "Granny's Knee".

> Assuming that George is not about to scrap and rewrite it at this point, cutting out some of the padding would, at least, make the poem's flaws less glaring.

Oh, I bet you say that to all the "potential adversaries."

George Dance wrote:

> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 6:38:34 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
>> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
>> > > > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
>> > > > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
>> > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
>> > > > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
>> > > > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
>> > > > > > If it is a true story, of course.
>> > > > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
>> > > > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
>> > > Why should he?
>> > >
>> > > Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.
>> > They need to prove it to the group, not just me.
>> No, "they" don't. Despite your ego blowing, no one else is demanding that "they" prove their selves.
>> It's called something that you do not know of. It's called respect. Due to my respect of Mr Burrows, I have no reasons to suspect what he says.

> What Bobby said was that "Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you [Will] and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death." Which is nonsense, since Kerouac wouldn't have compared anyone to Will or Zod, for the simple reason that he didn't even know who Will or Zod were.

Good afternoon, George, well put.

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:28:16 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:47:12 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:11:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo..ca wrote:
> > > > On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not really.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > >
> > > > > Look it up.
> > > > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
> > > >
> > > > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
> > > > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
> > > > his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
> > > > years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
> > > > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
> > > > indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
> > > > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
> > > > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
> > > > by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
> > > > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
> > > > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
> > > But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.
> > Your reading proficiency deficiency and lack of nuance fluency is showing through
> >
> > As you say, what you say just looks like your opinion...
> >
> > Firstly, no can see your flawed logic..
>
> There's nothing wrong with his logic, little flunkie. Kerouac did not blame his drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery", because he didn't even know who Will Dockery was. Nor would Bobby's "Kerouac scholar" have blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery," because he doesn't know who Will Dockery is, either. The only person who blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery" was Bobby himself.
>
> > Secondly, no one can trust your word, not after all the lies and misrepresentations you have been caught in, all the post editing you do, all the stuff that you say is wrong for others to do, but you do it.
>
> The Ashtroll tries IKYABWAI for the win.

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 7:35:35 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 12:23:04 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 11:54:03 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 6:06:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >> On 2022-12-04 3:41 p.m., Zod wrote:
> > > >> > George Dance wrote:
> > > >> >> On 2022-11-26 4:02 p.m., Zod wrote:
> > > >> >>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>> My Father's House
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > >> >>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > >> >>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > >> >>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > >> >>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > >> >>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > >> >>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > >> >>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > >> >>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > >> >>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > >> >>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > >> >>>> To be so many other places.
> > > >> >>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > >> >>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > >> >>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > >> >>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > >> >>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > >> >>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > >> >>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > >> >>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > >> >>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > >> >>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > >> >>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > >> >>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > >> >>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > >> >>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > >> >>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > >> >>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> ~~
> > > >> >>>> George J. Dance
> > > >> >>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!
> > > >> >> Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
> > > >> >> but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
> > > >> >> one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her
> > > >> >> complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the
> > > >> >> speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
> > > >> >> is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
> > > >> >> over a decade makes that much clearer.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
> > > >> >> plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the
> > > >> >> house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
> > > >> >> It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
> > > >> >> was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
> > > >> >> but I wanted to keep that hidden.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Cool... cool...
> > > >> It's interesting; writing the first draft (which is most of the finished
> > > >> poem) took 15 or 20 minutes; but I've made little tweaks that improved
> > > >> it. One I thought of tonight, when I reread it, was how one person,
> > > >> Karla I think, complained about two uses of "oh" in the last stanza,
> > > >> which she said were just padding to fit the meter. Dennis Hammes advised
> > > >> me to add "oh" in some earlier stanzas, which would make it "voice" - so
> > > >> I did. I do have to agree that Dennis was right. The interjections don't
> > > >> stick out at all; after hearing the speaker talk like that throughout
> > > >> the poem, the reader can just accept them as how he talks.
> > >
> > > > Regardless of how your rationalize them, they come across as filler..
> > > Troll much, Pendragon?
> >
> > Constructive criticism is not trolling, Donkey.
> >
> > George's "Oh"s serve no purpose in his poem other than to pad out the lines for metrical purposes.
>
> Once again I have to disagree. As Dennis was referencing, natural speech is full of interjections like 'um,'
> 'er,' 'ah, and 'oh',.' and recognizing that can help you write more natural-sounding speech. The only one that I think actually improves the poem is "oh so high" in the penultimate line, which for me captures the childlike voice perfectly (in a way that swapping it out for something like "very high" would not).
>

Yes, interjections can be used to reflect natural speech -- provided that they seem to arise naturally within the body of the poem. However, your interjected "oh"s give this reader the distinct impression of padding.

> > That sort of padding is amateurish, and hurts what is already a severely flawed poem.
> >
> > As previously noted, the light verse style is ill-suited to the subject matter, and the poem should be re-written as blank verse, free verse, or prose.
>
> On the surface, a nice children's-verse type rhyme is perfectly suited to a poem about one's childhood memories. The speaker's imagining himself as a child, thinking and responding as a child, and the verse form reflects that.
>
> Of course, since it isn't a poem for children, there's a discord between the verse and the subject matter; the poem is dissonant, which poems are not supposed to be. But the form/content dissonance is interesting, and makes it stand out. That last isn't a comment on my own work -- I'm thinking of its use in songs like "Mack the Knife" and "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" -- but it's something I've experimented with in other poems as well, like "The Dwarf beneath the Bed" and one you published in AYOS, "Granny's Knee".
>

I agree that discordance between topic and form can work as a self-reflexive commentary on the poem. I've also employed this technique in poems like "Love They Neighbor," and "The Bang! Bang! Poem" -- but with a difference; the graphic violence in my poems are presented in an over-the-top manner (as in "Mack the Knife" and "Maxwell's Silver Hammer"), which allow the reader to participate in the dark-humored joke (and, possibly to pick up on the serious commentary implicit in the theme). Your poem's content is much too serious for the dissonance to work -- if anything, your poem seems to be making light of the child abuse the speaker was subjected to.

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:52:29 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmaleficapendragon@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:28:16 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:47:12 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:11:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > > On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > >>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > >>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
>> > > > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
>> > > > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
>> > > > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
>> > > > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Not really.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Look it up.
>> > > > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
>> > > >
>> > > > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
>> > > > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
>> > > > his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
>> > > > years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
>> > > > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
>> > > > indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
>> > > > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
>> > > > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
>> > > > by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
>> > > > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
>> > > > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
>> > > But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.
>> > Your reading proficiency deficiency and lack of nuance fluency is showing through
>> >
>> > As you say, what you say just looks like your opinion...
>> >
>> > Firstly, no can see your flawed logic..
>>
>> There's nothing wrong with his logic, little flunkie. Kerouac did not blame his drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery", because he didn't even know who Will Dockery was. Nor would Bobby's "Kerouac scholar" have blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery," because he doesn't know who Will Dockery is, either. The only person who blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery" was Bobby himself.
>>
>> > Secondly, no one can trust your word, not after all the lies and misrepresentations you have been caught in, all the post editing you do, all the stuff that you say is wrong for others to do, but you do it.
>>
>> The Ashtroll tries IKYABWAI for the win.
>
>One doesn't need to know Donkey to blame something on people like him.
>
>According to Robert's friend, Kerouac blamed his drinking problems on no-talent, wanna-be poets who wrote rambling, drug-addled thought fragments about their "Bharma-Dumb" lives and pointed to him as their guru.
>
>IOW: On people like our resident Donkey.
>
>HtH & HAND

Mack A. Damia wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:52:29 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
> <michaelmaleficapendragon@gmail.com> wrote:

>>On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:28:16 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:47:12 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>>> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:11:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>> > > > On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>>> > > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> > > > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>> > > > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> > > > >>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
>>> > > > >>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
>>> > > > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
>>> > > > >>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
>>> > > > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
>>> > > > >>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>
>>> > > > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
>>> > > > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
>>> > > > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Not really.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Look it up.
>>> > > > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
>>> > > > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
>>> > > > his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
>>> > > > years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
>>> > > > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
>>> > > > indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
>>> > > > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
>>> > > > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
>>> > > > by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
>>> > > > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
>>> > > > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
>>> > > But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.
>>> > Your reading proficiency deficiency and lack of nuance fluency is showing through
>>> >
>>> > As you say, what you say just looks like your opinion...
>>> >
>>> > Firstly, no can see your flawed logic..
>>>
>>> There's nothing wrong with his logic, little flunkie. Kerouac did not blame his drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery", because he didn't even know who Will Dockery was. Nor would Bobby's "Kerouac scholar" have blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery," because he doesn't know who Will Dockery is, either. The only person who blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery" was Bobby himself.
>>>
>>> > Secondly, no one can trust your word, not after all the lies and misrepresentations you have been caught in, all the post editing you do, all the stuff that you say is wrong for others to do, but you do it.
>>>
>>> The Ashtroll tries IKYABWAI for the win.
>>
>>One doesn't need to know Donkey to blame something on people like him.
>>
>>According to Robert's friend, Kerouac blamed his drinking problems on no-talent, wanna-be poets who wrote rambling, drug-addled thought fragments about their "Bharma-Dumb" lives and pointed to him as their guru.
>>
>>IOW: On people like our resident Donkey.
>>
>>HtH & HAND

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 2:51:01 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:52:29 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:28:16 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:47:12 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:11:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> > > > On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > > >>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse..
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> >> > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> >> > > > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> >> > > > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>
> >> > > > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> >> > > > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> >> > > > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Not really.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Look it up.
> >> > > > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
> >> > > > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
> >> > > > his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
> >> > > > years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
> >> > > > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
> >> > > > indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
> >> > > > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
> >> > > > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
> >> > > > by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
> >> > > > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
> >> > > > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
> >> > > But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.
> >> > Your reading proficiency deficiency and lack of nuance fluency is showing through
> >> >
> >> > As you say, what you say just looks like your opinion...
> >> >
> >> > Firstly, no can see your flawed logic..
> >>
> >> There's nothing wrong with his logic, little flunkie. Kerouac did not blame his drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery", because he didn't even know who Will Dockery was. Nor would Bobby's "Kerouac scholar" have blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery," because he doesn't know who Will Dockery is, either. The only person who blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery" was Bobby himself.
> >>
> >> > Secondly, no one can trust your word, not after all the lies and misrepresentations you have been caught in, all the post editing you do, all the stuff that you say is wrong for others to do, but you do it.
> >>
> >> The Ashtroll tries IKYABWAI for the win.
> >
> >One doesn't need to know Donkey to blame something on people like him.
> >
> >According to Robert's friend, Kerouac blamed his drinking problems on no-talent, wanna-be poets who wrote rambling, drug-addled thought fragments about their "Bharma-Dumb" lives and pointed to him as their guru.
> >
> >IOW: On people like our resident Donkey.
> >
> >HtH & HAND
> Hey Spike, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 2:51:01 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:52:29 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
>> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:28:16 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse..
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
>> >> > > > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
>> >> > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
>> >> > > > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
>> >> > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > >>>>
>> >> > > > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
>> >> > > > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
>> >> > > > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Not really.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Look it up.
>> >> > > > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
>> >> > > > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
>> >> > > > his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
>> >> > > > years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
>> >> > > > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
>> >> > > > indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
>> >> > > > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
>> >> > > > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
>> >> > > > by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
>> >> > > > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
>> >> > > > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
>> >> > > But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.
>> >> > Your reading proficiency deficiency and lack of nuance fluency is showing through
>> >> >
>> >> > As you say, what you say just looks like your opinion...
>> >> >
>> >> > Firstly, no can see your flawed logic..
>> >>
>> >> There's nothing wrong with his logic, little flunkie. Kerouac did not blame his drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery", because he didn't even know who Will Dockery was. Nor would Bobby's "Kerouac scholar" have blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery," because he doesn't know who Will Dockery is, either. The only person who blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery" was Bobby himself.
>> >>
>> >> > Secondly, no one can trust your word, not after all the lies and misrepresentations you have been caught in, all the post editing you do, all the stuff that you say is wrong for others to do, but you do it.
>> >>
>> >> The Ashtroll tries IKYABWAI for the win.
>> >
>> >One doesn't need to know Donkey to blame something on people like him.
>> >
>> >According to Robert's friend, Kerouac blamed his drinking problems on no-talent, wanna-be poets who wrote rambling, drug-addled thought fragments about their "Bharma-Dumb" lives and pointed to him as their guru.
>> >
>> >IOW: On people like our resident Donkey.
>> >
>> >HtH & HAND
>> Hey Spike, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 5:25:12 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 2:51:01 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >> On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:52:29 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
> >> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:28:16 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse..
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> >> >> > > > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> >> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> >> >> > > > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> >> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>>
> >> >> > > > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> >> >> > > > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> >> >> > > > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > Not really.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > Look it up.
> >> >> > > > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
> >> >> > > > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
> >> >> > > > his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
> >> >> > > > years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
> >> >> > > > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
> >> >> > > > indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
> >> >> > > > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
> >> >> > > > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
> >> >> > > > by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
> >> >> > > > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
> >> >> > > > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
> >> >> > > But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.
> >> >> > Your reading proficiency deficiency and lack of nuance fluency is showing through
> >> >> >
> >> >> > As you say, what you say just looks like your opinion...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Firstly, no can see your flawed logic..
> >> >>
> >> >> There's nothing wrong with his logic, little flunkie. Kerouac did not blame his drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery", because he didn't even know who Will Dockery was. Nor would Bobby's "Kerouac scholar" have blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery," because he doesn't know who Will Dockery is, either. The only person who blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery" was Bobby himself.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Secondly, no one can trust your word, not after all the lies and misrepresentations you have been caught in, all the post editing you do, all the stuff that you say is wrong for others to do, but you do it.
> >> >>
> >> >> The Ashtroll tries IKYABWAI for the win.
> >> >
> >> >One doesn't need to know Donkey to blame something on people like him..
> >> >
> >> >According to Robert's friend, Kerouac blamed his drinking problems on no-talent, wanna-be poets who wrote rambling, drug-addled thought fragments about their "Bharma-Dumb" lives and pointed to him as their guru.
> >> >
> >> >IOW: On people like our resident Donkey.
> >> >
> >> >HtH & HAND
> >> Hey Spike, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
>
> > I've never pretended to be a "Bharma-Dumb," and have certainly made no pretense to admiring Kerouac's writing. He holds the dubious honor of being one of the very few writers who book I put down after having only read the first chapter or two.
>
> >> Nasty weather in New Jersey, eh?
>
> > I'm sure I wouldn't know. You might just as well ask me about the weather in Timbucktoo.
> We already know that you grew up in New Jersey since you've described life there many times, so you moved.
>
> HTH and HAND.

Coco DeSockmonkey wrote:

> On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 5:25:12 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>
>> > On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 2:51:01 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:52:29 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
>> >> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:28:16 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse..
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
>> >> >> > > > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
>> >> >> > > > >>>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>>
>> >> >> > > > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
>> >> >> > > > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
>> >> >> > > > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > Not really.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > Look it up.
>> >> >> > > > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
>> >> >> > > > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
>> >> >> > > > his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
>> >> >> > > > years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
>> >> >> > > > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
>> >> >> > > > indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
>> >> >> > > > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
>> >> >> > > > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
>> >> >> > > > by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
>> >> >> > > > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
>> >> >> > > > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
>> >> >> > > But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.
>> >> >> > Your reading proficiency deficiency and lack of nuance fluency is showing through
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > As you say, what you say just looks like your opinion...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Firstly, no can see your flawed logic..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There's nothing wrong with his logic, little flunkie. Kerouac did not blame his drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery", because he didn't even know who Will Dockery was. Nor would Bobby's "Kerouac scholar" have blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery," because he doesn't know who Will Dockery is, either. The only person who blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery" was Bobby himself.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Secondly, no one can trust your word, not after all the lies and misrepresentations you have been caught in, all the post editing you do, all the stuff that you say is wrong for others to do, but you do it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The Ashtroll tries IKYABWAI for the win.
>> >> >
>> >> >One doesn't need to know Donkey to blame something on people like him..
>> >> >
>> >> >According to Robert's friend, Kerouac blamed his drinking problems on no-talent, wanna-be poets who wrote rambling, drug-addled thought fragments about their "Bharma-Dumb" lives and pointed to him as their guru.
>> >> >
>> >> >IOW: On people like our resident Donkey.
>> >> >
>> >> >HtH & HAND
>> >> Hey Spike, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
>>
>> > I've never pretended to be a "Bharma-Dumb," and have certainly made no pretense to admiring Kerouac's writing. He holds the dubious honor of being one of the very few writers who book I put down after having only read the first chapter or two.
>>
>> >> Nasty weather in New Jersey, eh?
>>
>> > I'm sure I wouldn't know. You might just as well ask me about the weather in Timbucktoo.
>> We already know that you grew up in New Jersey since you've described life there many times, so you moved.
>>
>> HTH and HAND.

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:40:12 PM UTC-5, W-Dockery wrote:
> Coco DeSockmonkey wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 5:25:12 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 2:51:01 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:52:29 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
> >> >> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:28:16 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse..
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort.. I have to acknowledge
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>>
> >> >> >> > > > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> >> >> >> > > > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> >> >> >> > > > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> >> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> >> > > > > Not really.
> >> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> >> > > > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> >> > > > > Look it up.
> >> >> >> > > > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> > > > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
> >> >> >> > > > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
> >> >> >> > > > his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
> >> >> >> > > > years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
> >> >> >> > > > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
> >> >> >> > > > indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
> >> >> >> > > > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
> >> >> >> > > > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
> >> >> >> > > > by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
> >> >> >> > > > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
> >> >> >> > > > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
> >> >> >> > > But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.
> >> >> >> > Your reading proficiency deficiency and lack of nuance fluency is showing through
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > As you say, what you say just looks like your opinion...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Firstly, no can see your flawed logic..
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> There's nothing wrong with his logic, little flunkie. Kerouac did not blame his drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery", because he didn't even know who Will Dockery was. Nor would Bobby's "Kerouac scholar" have blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery," because he doesn't know who Will Dockery is, either. The only person who blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery" was Bobby himself.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Secondly, no one can trust your word, not after all the lies and misrepresentations you have been caught in, all the post editing you do, all the stuff that you say is wrong for others to do, but you do it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The Ashtroll tries IKYABWAI for the win.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >One doesn't need to know Donkey to blame something on people like him..
> >> >> >
> >> >> >According to Robert's friend, Kerouac blamed his drinking problems on no-talent, wanna-be poets who wrote rambling, drug-addled thought fragments about their "Bharma-Dumb" lives and pointed to him as their guru.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >IOW: On people like our resident Donkey.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >HtH & HAND
> >> >> Hey Spike, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
> >>
> >> > I've never pretended to be a "Bharma-Dumb," and have certainly made no pretense to admiring Kerouac's writing. He holds the dubious honor of being one of the very few writers who book I put down after having only read the first chapter or two.
> >>
> >> >> Nasty weather in New Jersey, eh?
> >>
> >> > I'm sure I wouldn't know. You might just as well ask me about the weather in Timbucktoo.
> >> We already know that you grew up in New Jersey since you've described life there many times, so you moved.
> >>
> >> HTH and HAND.
>
> > Yes, I grew up in Jersey. I haven't lived in New Jersey since December of 1991. Needless to say, I don't keep abreast of the daily weather conditions there.
> You're just over the state line, right?