On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 10:00:54 AM UTC-7, Paul S Person wrote:

> Depending on who -- or what [1] -- he is replaced with, it might not
> be a good thing.

> [1] The military could seize power. Can you say "Banana Republic"?
> With nukes?

Anything that leads to a Russian withdrawal from the Ukraine
will be welcomed by its people.

Certainly, though, it is more likely that Putin will simply be overthrown
from within his own "inner circle", that will continue corrupt, oligarchic,
and anti-Western rule in Russia than by a popular revolution that will
return Russia to the heady days of Boris Yeltsin - say, under Navalny.

Instead of something worse than Putin, though, this is likely to just lead
to something we won't like, but can at least live with. If the Ukrainian
people can rebuild, and the next crisis is a long way off, because the new
government will have no appetite for adventurism - that will be a big
improvement.

John Savard

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 10:00:54 AM UTC-7, Paul S Person wrote:

> [1] The military could seize power. Can you say "Banana Republic"?
> With nukes?

Although Putin _has_ packed the Russian military with his cronies,
if the Russian military seizes power, instead of Putin and Medvedev
being assassinated by their fellow oligarchs, the chances are still
actually quite good that the military will hold free elections and step
down.

The question is whether the Russian public can be brought to vote for
someone like Navalny or Kasparov, to put the country on the right track.

The Harvard economists who toppled Yeltsin... are also the sort that helped
put Trump in power. We need to start thinking of economics as though
people mattered. But that sounds like Bernie Sanders - who I agree is
dangerously mistaken about Venezuela.

John Savard

On 2/26/2022 8:42 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 01:30:06 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 12:49:18 AM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> The simple fact is that neither the Russians nor the Chinese have the
>>> means of conducting an invasion across an ocean. That is a greater
>>> protection than all the nuclear weapons in the universe.
>>
>> It is true that the conquest of a country is not complete until you can
>> put boots on the ground in it.
>>
>> However, if the United States did not have nuclear weapons, it could
>> be easily conquered.
>
> How?
>
>> It's true that after all its big cities were nuked, one couldn't steal its
>> factories or technology. But there would still be all that farmland,
>> and all those mineral resources.
>
> What mineral resources? Seems to have escaped your notice that the US
> mines are mostly played out. And what good is radioactive farmland?

The mines in the USA have not played out at all. But most of the easy
to reach minerals are mined already. Deep mines are expensive.
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/07112021/lithium-mining-thacker-pass-nevada-electric-vehicles-climate/

There are also massive amounts of uranium, silver, and gold. Plus there
is the crude oil and natural gas.

Lynn

On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:55:16 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 14:49:07 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 2:24:49 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>>Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>> news:54c6cf66-b0af-4d0f...@googlegroups.com:
>>> > On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 9:30:35 AM UTC-7, Paul S Person
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Just keep rallying and chanting "Putin!" while saluting,
>>> >> Republicans. See what /that/ gets you next November!
>>> >
>>> > Fortunately, the Republicans appear to have learned which way the
>>> > wind is blowing, and have changed their tune.
>>> >
>>> Or they've always sung the same tune, despite the fiction that people
>>> call the news media.
>>
>>You are partly right. While the Republican Party has been obsequious
>>towards Trump... praising Putin as a really clever guy was his own idea,
>>which came as a surprise to the GOP, and only a very few Republicans
>>ever supported him with that.
>
> That /any/ "Republican" supported him on that helps to identify the
> RINOs -- that is, the Trump RINOs.
>
> But until they formally and forever Dump Trump, keeping their heads down
> will not help them.
>
>>Like the one who said the U.S. should forget about the Ukraine, and
>>instead consider liberating that wretched dicatatorship to the North
>>where the heroic "Freedom Convoy" was crushed... one Candace Owens.
>
> Isn't that the one that (or, rather, one of the ones that), when the
> alt-right takes control and sets up their Final Solution Centers, will
> find herself in the first cattle car sent to one?
>
>>While the Republican Party in general is not distancing itself enough
>>from its nutjobs, it's still true that most of its members are not
>>nutjobs themselves, they are only to blame for keeping silent.
>
> Ah, the "Silent Majority".
>
> Didn't work in 64, won't work today.

You do know there are not enough actual alt-right in the US to take over
a state not to mention the country?

On Thursday, 3 March 2022 at 22:36:25 UTC, Magewolf wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:55:16 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 14:49:07 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 2:24:49 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> >>Kujisalimisha wrote:
> >>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
> >>> news:54c6cf66-b0af-4d0f...@googlegroups.com:
> >>> > On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 9:30:35 AM UTC-7, Paul S Person
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Just keep rallying and chanting "Putin!" while saluting,
> >>> >> Republicans. See what /that/ gets you next November!
> >>> >
> >>> > Fortunately, the Republicans appear to have learned which way the
> >>> > wind is blowing, and have changed their tune.
> >>> >
> >>> Or they've always sung the same tune, despite the fiction that people
> >>> call the news media.
> >>
> >>You are partly right. While the Republican Party has been obsequious
> >>towards Trump... praising Putin as a really clever guy was his own idea,
> >>which came as a surprise to the GOP, and only a very few Republicans
> >>ever supported him with that.
> >
> > That /any/ "Republican" supported him on that helps to identify the
> > RINOs -- that is, the Trump RINOs.
> >
> > But until they formally and forever Dump Trump, keeping their heads down
> > will not help them.
> >
> >>Like the one who said the U.S. should forget about the Ukraine, and
> >>instead consider liberating that wretched dicatatorship to the North
> >>where the heroic "Freedom Convoy" was crushed... one Candace Owens.
> >
> > Isn't that the one that (or, rather, one of the ones that), when the
> > alt-right takes control and sets up their Final Solution Centers, will
> > find herself in the first cattle car sent to one?
> >
> >>While the Republican Party in general is not distancing itself enough
> >>from its nutjobs, it's still true that most of its members are not
> >>nutjobs themselves, they are only to blame for keeping silent.
> >
> > Ah, the "Silent Majority".
> >
> > Didn't work in 64, won't work today.
> You do know there are not enough actual alt-right in the US to take over
> a state not to mention the country?

How many are required, is it 218?

On 2/27/2022 10:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:35:32 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 17:24:46 -0500, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:17:25 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 7:44:34 AM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What leads you to believe that the Russian troops are going to leave?
>>>>
>>>> After the 2008 invasion, the Russian troops _did_ leave Georgia, except for
>>>> the chunk they grabbed.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not suggesting the U.S. try invading _that_; I'm trying to prevent
>>>> World War III, not provoke it.
>>>
>>> With friends like you, WWIII doesn't need enemies.
>>>
>>>>> And are you proposing forcing Ukraine to join NATO even if it doesn't
>>>>> want to?
>>>>
>>>> No. But I really don't think that's an issue. I'm sure the government of
>>>> the Ukraine did very much want to prevent... what is going on in the
>>>> Ukraine right now.
>>>
>>> That's nice. What leads you to believe that the government that the
>>> Russians are going to put into place will want the same thing?
>>
>> Presumably any government that Putin would want to install would
>> welcome "friendly and fraternal" (I think that was the 1917-91 era
>> term) relations with Russia.
>
> I suspect it would rejoin Russia.
>
> Putin, IMHO, pretty clearly wants to be Tsar.

Putin wants to be Stalin who built Russia into the USSR.

Lynn

On 3/2/2022 10:58 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 17:00:31 -0500, J. Clarke
> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 13:42:18 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 08:45:08 -0800, Paul S Person
>>> <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
> <snippo>
>
>>>> As an example of "whiplash", it appears that the war has shown that
>>>> drones, even Turkish [1] drones, equipped with anti-tank missiles,
>>>> even Turkish [1] anti-tank missiles, can do a lot of damage to tanks
>>>> and other armored vehicles.
>>>
>>> And while other countries haven't been sending troops they HAVE been
>>> sending anti-tank missiles - both NATO countries and the Swedes.
>>>
>> It's rather surprising that the drones work given Russia's alleged
>> prowess at hacking. Maybe they aren't as good as everybody thinks
>> they are, or may the hackers don't work for the government like
>> everybody thinks they do. I would have expected the Russians to have
>> little difficulty either jamming the com links or overriding control.
>
> I see very little connection between hacking the Internet and either
> jamming or overriding drones. Although I suppose if a country were
> daft enough to actually put their drones on the Internet (that is,
> give them an IP address and associated software), they would deserve
> what they got. As I have noted elsewhere, the "Internet of Things" is
> not, in point of fact, a sane idea.
>
> My new ISP uses a cellphone embedded in my optic fiber modem (it could
> be in the router which is then used to control the modem as well over
> the Ethernet cable) to examine, run diagnostics on, and set things on
> the equipment Not the Internet, a cell phone. There is more to the
> world than the Internet, and hacking the Internet does not apply to
> everything.
>
>> This is looking more and more like a blunder--if the Russians are
>> having this much trouble taking Ukraine, NATO would eat them for
>> breakfast.
>
> The Russians need to withdraw their troops and those of their
> supporters in the Eastern Ukraine and the Crimea who wish to go back
> to Russia, reverse all their bogus decrees on the Eastern Ukraine and
> the Crimea and start discussing how much the reparations required to
> get the sanctions lifted will be. And hope that abandoning Kaliningrad
> and paying to clean /it/ up isn't part of the deal. And, yes, I am
> being a bit optimistic again.
>
> But I don't think Putin is any more capable of such an action than
> Trump, his sock puppet, would be.
>
> At least Trump had enough sense to not actually /invade/ [1] another
> country!
>
> [1] It occurred to me back in 2016 that Trump /could/ get Mexico to
> pay for the wall by invading it and seizing its treasury. Thankfully,
> this never occurred to anyone who mattered.

Putin is deadly worried that Ukraine will eventually join NATO and have
German troops there. The last time Russia fought Germany in Ukraine in
1941, Russia lost 600,000 fighting men in Ukraine alone ! 26 million
Soviet deaths including 9 million fighting men dead across the eastern
front. The Russians have long memories of that war. Putin will never
allow Ukraine to join NATO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa

How you can make this about Trump is amazing. Trump has nothing to do
with Ukraine at all. It is Biden's son Hunter who took millions of
dollars in bribes in the kleptocracy known as Ukraine. And 10% for the
Big Guy.

BTW, Russia and Ukraine grow 29% of the wheat in the world. Do you like
bread ? Get ready to pay $10 for loaf of bread.

Lynn

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote in
news:9to02h1o5fcer4tq4tpk2rp2km0gkcetsq@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 15:34:01 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote in
>>news:2ttv1hpst6e8nepnorbghdak6tf8eo126k@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 08:33:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>>> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>So far as I can tell, the entirety of the left are, yes,
>>>>fascists. their goal is to control other people's lives, to
>>>>the point of being able to choose who lives and who dies.
>>>
>>> I don't know about that necessarily but no question the early
>>> Nazi party was both national and socialist in the sense of
>>> both those two words are normally understood.
>>>
>>> Their 1920 platform makes that clear:
>>> https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-party-pl
>>> at form (the third word describing this is racist though this
>>> is NOT terribly "out there" compared to socialists of the time
>>> particularly in Germany and Austria.
>>>
>>> (I would also argue that this document says clearly that the
>>> Nazi party was anti-semitic long before the average German
>>> had ever heard of them)
>>>
>>> Later on in order to reach power Hitler made a devil's deal
>>> with German industrialists that essentially removed all the
>>> pro-labor clauses in their party's platform but that was much
>>> later (e.g. 1931-32 and later)
>>>
>>> But no question the 1920 document is both more nationalist
>>> than the German Social Democratic party but still definitely
>>> socialist.
>>>
>>None of which has anything to do with what I said.
>>
>>You should smoke less dope while posting.
>
> Au contraire - you were making the point that fascism was not
> intrinsically left or right

Smoke less dope. Seriously.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote in
news:j9p02h1e929auojr78o94vpuauq5vslac1@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 15:44:24 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote in
>>news:1auv1hh388hlnvhffeeucs8fgrrguhdjoo@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 09:38:45 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>>> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>The topic intended was "Belarus rejoining Russia". Like the
>>>>>>>war itself, these threads are moving so fast its easy to
>>>>>>>get whiplash.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Since Belarus has now (it appears) attacked Ukraine, does
>>>>>>>that not mean that Ukraine could, once Russia has left
>>>>>>>(yes, I am being optimistic here), invade Belarus and
>>>>>>>rectify it? Or does the idiot-in-charge of Belarus /really/
>>>>>>>represent the people, in which leaving them to their own
>>>>>>>devices would be preferable?
>>>
>>> Has Belarus actually sent their troops into Ukraine?
>>
>>That is what is being reported, yes. As of yesterday. Haven't
>>seen much in the way of independent confirmation so far, though.
>>
>>> First of
>>> heard of that.
>>
>>You should pay more attention. It was covered is some pretty
>>mainstream outlets.
>>
>>> What Belarus definitely HAS done is given Putin
>>> jump off points in Belarus to attack Ukraine (the attack on
>>> Chernobyl was entirely from Belorussian territory.)
>>
>>That was obvious weeks ago. Lukashenko is a Putin sock puppet.
>>>
>>> I'm not at all convinced Belarus intends to rejoin Russia.
>>
>>It already did, when Lukashenko was installed.
>
> I know what you are saying but that doesn't make it true.

What makes it true is that it's true.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 10:16:08 PM UTC-7, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote in
> news:j9p02h1e929auojr7...@4ax.com:
> > On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 15:44:24 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> > Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>> I'm not at all convinced Belarus intends to rejoin Russia.

> >>It already did, when Lukashenko was installed.

> > I know what you are saying but that doesn't make it true.

> What makes it true is that it's true.

Belarus is aligned with Russia. It is controlled by Russia,
since Lukashenko is one of Putin's cronies.

That does _not_ mean that Belarus is *part of* Russia.

That is a different matter. Thus, in the sense in which the other participant
is referring to the matter, your statement is not true.

John Savard

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 3/2/2022 10:58 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

>How you can make this about Trump is amazing. Trump has nothing to do
>with Ukraine at all. It is Biden's son Hunter who took millions of
>dollars in bribes in the kleptocracy known as Ukraine.

Only in your fevered imagination. You need to vet your news sources
more carefully - Alex Jones doesn't write news.

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:65736eae-884c-490c-b8e7-4303a43e4c57n@googlegroups.com:

> On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 10:16:08 PM UTC-7, Ninapenda
> Jibini wrote:
>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote in
>> news:j9p02h1e929auojr7...@4ax.com:
>> > On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 15:44:24 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>> > Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >>> I'm not at all convinced Belarus intends to rejoin Russia.
>
>> >>It already did, when Lukashenko was installed.
>
>> > I know what you are saying but that doesn't make it true.
>
>> What makes it true is that it's true.
>
> Belarus is aligned with Russia. It is controlled by Russia,
> since Lukashenko is one of Putin's cronies.
>
> That does _not_ mean that Belarus is *part of* Russia.

You're arguing nits. There is no practical level at which is isn't.
Presumably in an attempt to try to distract from the reality that you
approve of fascism.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote in
news:svrft4$9o$1@dont-email.me:

> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:55:16 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 14:49:07 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 2:24:49 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula
>>>Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>> news:54c6cf66-b0af-4d0f...@googlegroups.com:
>>>> > On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 9:30:35 AM UTC-7, Paul S
>>>> > Person wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Just keep rallying and chanting "Putin!" while saluting,
>>>> >> Republicans. See what /that/ gets you next November!
>>>> >
>>>> > Fortunately, the Republicans appear to have learned which
>>>> > way the wind is blowing, and have changed their tune.
>>>> >
>>>> Or they've always sung the same tune, despite the fiction
>>>> that people call the news media.
>>>
>>>You are partly right. While the Republican Party has been
>>>obsequious towards Trump... praising Putin as a really clever
>>>guy was his own idea, which came as a surprise to the GOP, and
>>>only a very few Republicans ever supported him with that.
>>
>> That /any/ "Republican" supported him on that helps to identify
>> the RINOs -- that is, the Trump RINOs.
>>
>> But until they formally and forever Dump Trump, keeping their
>> heads down will not help them.
>>
>>>Like the one who said the U.S. should forget about the Ukraine,
>>>and instead consider liberating that wretched dicatatorship to
>>>the North where the heroic "Freedom Convoy" was crushed... one
>>>Candace Owens.
>>
>> Isn't that the one that (or, rather, one of the ones that),
>> when the alt-right takes control and sets up their Final
>> Solution Centers, will find herself in the first cattle car
>> sent to one?
>>
>>>While the Republican Party in general is not distancing itself
>>>enough from its nutjobs, it's still true that most of its
>>>members are not nutjobs themselves, they are only to blame for
>>>keeping silent.
>>
>> Ah, the "Silent Majority".
>>
>> Didn't work in 64, won't work today.
>
> You do know there are not enough actual alt-right in the US to
> take over a state not to mention the country?
>
There were not, in fact, enough to take over a single building. As
they found out.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:tqg42hp953tc312svpcmf01jdeehov8qq0@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 22:36:21 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
> <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:55:16 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 14:49:07 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 2:24:49 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula
>>>>Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>> news:54c6cf66-b0af-4d0f...@googlegroups.com:
>>>>> > On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 9:30:35 AM UTC-7, Paul S
>>>>> > Person wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Just keep rallying and chanting "Putin!" while saluting,
>>>>> >> Republicans. See what /that/ gets you next November!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Fortunately, the Republicans appear to have learned which
>>>>> > way the wind is blowing, and have changed their tune.
>>>>> >
>>>>> Or they've always sung the same tune, despite the fiction
>>>>> that people call the news media.
>>>>
>>>>You are partly right. While the Republican Party has been
>>>>obsequious towards Trump... praising Putin as a really clever
>>>>guy was his own idea, which came as a surprise to the GOP, and
>>>>only a very few Republicans ever supported him with that.
>>>
>>> That /any/ "Republican" supported him on that helps to
>>> identify the RINOs -- that is, the Trump RINOs.
>>>
>>> But until they formally and forever Dump Trump, keeping their
>>> heads down will not help them.
>>>
>>>>Like the one who said the U.S. should forget about the
>>>>Ukraine, and instead consider liberating that wretched
>>>>dicatatorship to the North where the heroic "Freedom Convoy"
>>>>was crushed... one Candace Owens.
>>>
>>> Isn't that the one that (or, rather, one of the ones that),
>>> when the alt-right takes control and sets up their Final
>>> Solution Centers, will find herself in the first cattle car
>>> sent to one?
>>>
>>>>While the Republican Party in general is not distancing itself
>>>>enough from its nutjobs, it's still true that most of its
>>>>members are not nutjobs themselves, they are only to blame for
>>>>keeping silent.
>>>
>>> Ah, the "Silent Majority".
>>>
>>> Didn't work in 64, won't work today.
>>
>>You do know there are not enough actual alt-right in the US to
>>take over a state not to mention the country?
>
> Well, we /hope/ not, anyway.
>
> But with Trump's demagogic abilities ... this what the military
> call a "force multiplier".
>
> I can see it now -- the entire Republican National Convention
> shouting "Putin!" and saluting.

You see a lot of things that aren't there. The word for it is
"hallucination."

Take your meds. Seriously.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:57t12hpahp873cmlgsv18u3boflfsfpfck@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 15:14:16 -0800, The Horny Goat
> <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 09:38:45 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>>Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>The topic intended was "Belarus rejoining Russia". Like the
>>>>>>war itself, these threads are moving so fast its easy to get
>>>>>>whiplash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Since Belarus has now (it appears) attacked Ukraine, does
>>>>>>that not mean that Ukraine could, once Russia has left (yes,
>>>>>>I am being optimistic here), invade Belarus and rectify it?
>>>>>>Or does the idiot-in-charge of Belarus /really/ represent
>>>>>>the people, in which leaving them to their own devices would
>>>>>>be preferable?
>>
>>Has Belarus actually sent their troops into Ukraine? First of
>>heard of that. What Belarus definitely HAS done is given Putin
>>jump off points in Belarus to attack Ukraine (the attack on
>>Chernobyl was entirely from Belorussian territory.)
>
> To be honest, I am not at all certain they have. I have seen
> various references, but they could all have been allowing the
> Russians to attack from their territory and/or air actions
> rather than ground troops.
>
It seems increasingly likely that people who *look* like
Belarusians have entered Ukraine. Whether or not they are is a
different question.

> Anyway, I doubt that the Ukraine, even after it wins, would want
> to waste more time and effort on Belarus. Letting them stew in
> their own juices might be even more satisfactory.

Once Putin is out of the way. Belarus doesn't matter any more.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On 2022-03-04 8:07 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote in
> news:svrft4$9o$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:55:16 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 14:49:07 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 2:24:49 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula
>>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>> news:54c6cf66-b0af-4d0f...@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 9:30:35 AM UTC-7, Paul S
>>>>>> Person wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just keep rallying and chanting "Putin!" while saluting,
>>>>>>> Republicans. See what /that/ gets you next November!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fortunately, the Republicans appear to have learned which
>>>>>> way the wind is blowing, and have changed their tune.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Or they've always sung the same tune, despite the fiction
>>>>> that people call the news media.
>>>>
>>>> You are partly right. While the Republican Party has been
>>>> obsequious towards Trump... praising Putin as a really clever
>>>> guy was his own idea, which came as a surprise to the GOP, and
>>>> only a very few Republicans ever supported him with that.
>>>
>>> That /any/ "Republican" supported him on that helps to identify
>>> the RINOs -- that is, the Trump RINOs.
>>>
>>> But until they formally and forever Dump Trump, keeping their
>>> heads down will not help them.
>>>
>>>> Like the one who said the U.S. should forget about the Ukraine,
>>>> and instead consider liberating that wretched dicatatorship to
>>>> the North where the heroic "Freedom Convoy" was crushed... one
>>>> Candace Owens.
>>>
>>> Isn't that the one that (or, rather, one of the ones that),
>>> when the alt-right takes control and sets up their Final
>>> Solution Centers, will find herself in the first cattle car
>>> sent to one?
>>>
>>>> While the Republican Party in general is not distancing itself
>>>> enough from its nutjobs, it's still true that most of its
>>>> members are not nutjobs themselves, they are only to blame for
>>>> keeping silent.
>>>
>>> Ah, the "Silent Majority".
>>>
>>> Didn't work in 64, won't work today.
>>
>> You do know there are not enough actual alt-right in the US to
>> take over a state not to mention the country?
>>
> There were not, in fact, enough to take over a single building. As
> they found out.
>

Ummmmm... ...no.

What they found out was that it wasn't as easy as they'd been lied to to
believe.

On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 11:59:32 AM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 11:38:26 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 09:11:29 -0800, Paul S Person
> ><pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 15:14:16 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 09:38:45 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> >>><taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>I'm not at all convinced Belarus intends to rejoin Russia. No question
> >>>they are closely linked but Canada has been closely linked to the
> >>>United States for most of her history and they're still separate
> >>>nations despite the fact that everybody knows they're very close.
> >>>
> >>>Simply being close allies does not imply likelihood of political
> >>>union.
> >>
> >>Belarus was part of the Soviet Union -- and the Russian Empire before
> >>it. So, they /were/ part of "Russia" within living memory.
> >
> >So were Poland (mostly), the Baltic states and Finland. Does that
> >justify Putin grabbing for them?
> Nothing "justifies" Putin grabbing for them.
>
> But you may be outlining his long-term plan, who can say?

To a Western viewpoint, certainly nothing 'justifies' Putin
grabbing the Baltics. NATO has zero intention of invading
Russia, and MAD is still in place if they did.

However, Russian autocrats have long hankered to have a
layer of at worst neutral, at best compliant border states
between Russia and the West, partially because of the lack
of geographic barriers - WW2 and Napoleon are still remembered.

The post-1990 changes brought NATO right up to the Russian
border. Putin wants to restore the buffer. That justifies it in his
mind.

pt

On 3/4/2022 10:08 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
> news:tqg42hp953tc312svpcmf01jdeehov8qq0@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 22:36:21 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
>> <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:55:16 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 14:49:07 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 2:24:49 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula
>>>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>>> news:54c6cf66-b0af-4d0f...@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 9:30:35 AM UTC-7, Paul S
>>>>>>> Person wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just keep rallying and chanting "Putin!" while saluting,
>>>>>>>> Republicans. See what /that/ gets you next November!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fortunately, the Republicans appear to have learned which
>>>>>>> way the wind is blowing, and have changed their tune.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or they've always sung the same tune, despite the fiction
>>>>>> that people call the news media.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are partly right. While the Republican Party has been
>>>>> obsequious towards Trump... praising Putin as a really clever
>>>>> guy was his own idea, which came as a surprise to the GOP, and
>>>>> only a very few Republicans ever supported him with that.
>>>>
>>>> That /any/ "Republican" supported him on that helps to
>>>> identify the RINOs -- that is, the Trump RINOs.
>>>>
>>>> But until they formally and forever Dump Trump, keeping their
>>>> heads down will not help them.
>>>>
>>>>> Like the one who said the U.S. should forget about the
>>>>> Ukraine, and instead consider liberating that wretched
>>>>> dicatatorship to the North where the heroic "Freedom Convoy"
>>>>> was crushed... one Candace Owens.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't that the one that (or, rather, one of the ones that),
>>>> when the alt-right takes control and sets up their Final
>>>> Solution Centers, will find herself in the first cattle car
>>>> sent to one?
>>>>
>>>>> While the Republican Party in general is not distancing itself
>>>>> enough from its nutjobs, it's still true that most of its
>>>>> members are not nutjobs themselves, they are only to blame for
>>>>> keeping silent.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, the "Silent Majority".
>>>>
>>>> Didn't work in 64, won't work today.
>>>
>>> You do know there are not enough actual alt-right in the US to
>>> take over a state not to mention the country?
>>
>> Well, we /hope/ not, anyway.
>>
>> But with Trump's demagogic abilities ... this what the military
>> call a "force multiplier".
>>
>> I can see it now -- the entire Republican National Convention
>> shouting "Putin!" and saluting.
>
> You see a lot of things that aren't there. The word for it is
> "hallucination."
>
> Take your meds. Seriously.

He is getting worse.

Lynn

On 3/4/2022 1:49 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 11:59:32 AM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 11:38:26 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 09:11:29 -0800, Paul S Person
>>> <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 15:14:16 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 09:38:45 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>>>>> <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not at all convinced Belarus intends to rejoin Russia. No question
>>>>> they are closely linked but Canada has been closely linked to the
>>>>> United States for most of her history and they're still separate
>>>>> nations despite the fact that everybody knows they're very close.
>>>>>
>>>>> Simply being close allies does not imply likelihood of political
>>>>> union.
>>>>
>>>> Belarus was part of the Soviet Union -- and the Russian Empire before
>>>> it. So, they /were/ part of "Russia" within living memory.
>>>
>>> So were Poland (mostly), the Baltic states and Finland. Does that
>>> justify Putin grabbing for them?
>> Nothing "justifies" Putin grabbing for them.
>>
>> But you may be outlining his long-term plan, who can say?
>
> To a Western viewpoint, certainly nothing 'justifies' Putin
> grabbing the Baltics. NATO has zero intention of invading
> Russia, and MAD is still in place if they did.
>
> However, Russian autocrats have long hankered to have a
> layer of at worst neutral, at best compliant border states
> between Russia and the West, partially because of the lack
> of geographic barriers - WW2 and Napoleon are still remembered.
>
> The post-1990 changes brought NATO right up to the Russian
> border. Putin wants to restore the buffer. That justifies it in his
> mind.
>
> pt

When you cut out a cancer, you establish clear margins. NATO was
considering taking over the clear margins.

Lynn

On Friday, 4 March 2022 at 20:29:21 UTC, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/4/2022 1:49 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 11:59:32 AM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 11:38:26 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 09:11:29 -0800, Paul S Person
> >>> <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 15:14:16 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 09:38:45 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> >>>>> <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not at all convinced Belarus intends to rejoin Russia. No question
> >>>>> they are closely linked but Canada has been closely linked to the
> >>>>> United States for most of her history and they're still separate
> >>>>> nations despite the fact that everybody knows they're very close.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Simply being close allies does not imply likelihood of political
> >>>>> union.
> >>>>
> >>>> Belarus was part of the Soviet Union -- and the Russian Empire before
> >>>> it. So, they /were/ part of "Russia" within living memory.
> >>>
> >>> So were Poland (mostly), the Baltic states and Finland. Does that
> >>> justify Putin grabbing for them?
> >> Nothing "justifies" Putin grabbing for them.
> >>
> >> But you may be outlining his long-term plan, who can say?
> >
> > To a Western viewpoint, certainly nothing 'justifies' Putin
> > grabbing the Baltics. NATO has zero intention of invading
> > Russia, and MAD is still in place if they did.
> >
> > However, Russian autocrats have long hankered to have a
> > layer of at worst neutral, at best compliant border states
> > between Russia and the West, partially because of the lack
> > of geographic barriers - WW2 and Napoleon are still remembered.
> >
> > The post-1990 changes brought NATO right up to the Russian
> > border. Putin wants to restore the buffer. That justifies it in his
> > mind.
> >
> > pt
> When you cut out a cancer, you establish clear margins. NATO was
> considering taking over the clear margins.

NATO doesn't "take over". NATO is a mutual defence treaty.
It /does/ have an effect: NATO membership requires having
self defence capability. Apparently President Putin doesn't
like neighbours who can defend their home.

And you seem to be casting Russia as the cancer. Do you
want it to get radiation treatment? The catch is it's difficult
to cast radiation where you want it to go, and not elsewhere
as well.

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:svtsnu$qlc$4@dont-email.me:

> On 3/4/2022 10:08 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>> news:tqg42hp953tc312svpcmf01jdeehov8qq0@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 22:36:21 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
>>> <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:55:16 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 14:49:07 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 2:24:49 PM UTC-7, Jibini
>>>>>> Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>>>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:54c6cf66-b0af-4d0f...@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 9:30:35 AM UTC-7, Paul S
>>>>>>>> Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just keep rallying and chanting "Putin!" while saluting,
>>>>>>>>> Republicans. See what /that/ gets you next November!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fortunately, the Republicans appear to have learned which
>>>>>>>> way the wind is blowing, and have changed their tune.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or they've always sung the same tune, despite the fiction
>>>>>>> that people call the news media.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are partly right. While the Republican Party has been
>>>>>> obsequious towards Trump... praising Putin as a really
>>>>>> clever guy was his own idea, which came as a surprise to
>>>>>> the GOP, and only a very few Republicans ever supported him
>>>>>> with that.
>>>>>
>>>>> That /any/ "Republican" supported him on that helps to
>>>>> identify the RINOs -- that is, the Trump RINOs.
>>>>>
>>>>> But until they formally and forever Dump Trump, keeping
>>>>> their heads down will not help them.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Like the one who said the U.S. should forget about the
>>>>>> Ukraine, and instead consider liberating that wretched
>>>>>> dicatatorship to the North where the heroic "Freedom
>>>>>> Convoy" was crushed... one Candace Owens.
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't that the one that (or, rather, one of the ones that),
>>>>> when the alt-right takes control and sets up their Final
>>>>> Solution Centers, will find herself in the first cattle car
>>>>> sent to one?
>>>>>
>>>>>> While the Republican Party in general is not distancing
>>>>>> itself enough from its nutjobs, it's still true that most
>>>>>> of its members are not nutjobs themselves, they are only to
>>>>>> blame for keeping silent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, the "Silent Majority".
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't work in 64, won't work today.
>>>>
>>>> You do know there are not enough actual alt-right in the US
>>>> to take over a state not to mention the country?
>>>
>>> Well, we /hope/ not, anyway.
>>>
>>> But with Trump's demagogic abilities ... this what the
>>> military call a "force multiplier".
>>>
>>> I can see it now -- the entire Republican National Convention
>>> shouting "Putin!" and saluting.
>>
>> You see a lot of things that aren't there. The word for it is
>> "hallucination."
>>
>> Take your meds. Seriously.
>
> He is getting worse.
>
Desperation will do that. And the left is getting pretty
desperate.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 1:55:13 PM UTC-7, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> And you seem to be casting Russia as the cancer. Do you
> want it to get radiation treatment?

That is very definitely not what he wants. He seems to feel that the best
way to isolate Russia is to let it do what it wants with its immediate neighbors,
like Belarus, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. Instead, standing by people who,
having become free, want to remain free, doesn't seem to be appealing to him.

John Savard

On 3/4/2022 4:45 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 1:55:13 PM UTC-7, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>
>> And you seem to be casting Russia as the cancer. Do you
>> want it to get radiation treatment?
>
> That is very definitely not what he wants. He seems to feel that the best
> way to isolate Russia is to let it do what it wants with its immediate neighbors,
> like Belarus, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. Instead, standing by people who,
> having become free, want to remain free, doesn't seem to be appealing to him.
>
> John Savard

John, the Russians lost 25,000,000 people in 1941 fighting off the
Germans. The Russians are not going to allow any of their buffer
countries like Ukraine invite the Germans back in. Not gonna happen and
Ukraine knew it. Instead Ukraine was dancing around the place trying to
get NATO in.

Lynn

On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 6:17:42 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> John, the Russians lost 25,000,000 people in 1941 fighting off the
> Germans. The Russians are not going to allow any of their buffer
> countries like Ukraine invite the Germans back in. Not gonna happen and
> Ukraine knew it. Instead Ukraine was dancing around the place trying to
> get NATO in.

The Russian people are not responsible for the aggression that the
Ukrainian people are suffering. The decision to invade the Ukraine
was made by one man, Vladimir Putin.

The people of the Ukraine are human beings. Therefore, they have the
right to live under a democratic government. And that right should be
absolutely secure. It should no more be a possibility that Russia would
invade the Ukraine than that Russia would invade Texas.

Yes, there is indeed a historical strategic doctrine held in some quarters
in Russia that it needs buffer states. But this should properly be viewed
as a hallucination in the disordered mind of Vladimir Putin, not as anything
with any merit or validity.

Russia invaded. If NATO had been in the Ukraine, Russia would not have invaded;
you don't see it invading any of the countries in NATO, do you?

So don't be an apologist for tyranny.

Don't suggest, in any way, that either the Ukraine or the United States
(through its support of the Ukraine, as opposed to its failure to support
the Ukraine strongly enough) is responsible for what is going on in the
Ukraine at this time.

Although the nations of the Free World cannot take up arms against
Russia, and I have no quarrel with discretion and restraint for the
purpose of avoiding global thermonuclear war, let us make no mistake
about it: in every other way, we are now at war with Russia and with
Belarus, and our every word and action should be guided by this fact.
Because we can expect to be held accountable if we fail to meet this
standard.

John Savard

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 7:16:33 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> How you can make this about Trump is amazing. Trump has nothing to do
> with Ukraine at all. It is Biden's son Hunter who took millions of
> dollars in bribes in the kleptocracy known as Ukraine. And 10% for the
> Big Guy.

Ukraine _was_ a kleptocracy under its former leader, who had his own
private zoo. But in the Orange Revolution, he was overthrown, and
it is now a democracy, with a leader who is a hero, not a thief.
As for Hunter Biden, he was in Ukraine on behalf of the U.S. Government
to support democracy there, and all this stuff about bribes is a total
Trump fabrication, like the so-called election steal.
Otherwise, while Trump was definitely too close to Putin for comfort,
I do agree this invasion is not about Trump.

John Savard