J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
news:jt7g2htirs5os8025alusi10f78uhhcv5u@4ax.com:

> You still don't get it. The US does _not_ own or control NATO
> and if the US starts bulling its way into NATO members pretty
> soon there won't be any more NATO.
>
Which would leave the rest of NATO completely helpless against
Russian (or Chinese) agression, and arguably be of benefit to the US.

Speaking of not getting it.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:8a06a2a8-7424-4928-995d-cb4e572e8faen@googlegroups.com:

> 1) Although not actively engaged in hostilities, *we are
> at war*. That is the first thing to remember.
>
Ukraine is at war. The US and Canada are not.

You've really lost yoru shit, son. You need help. Seriously.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:0omh2h1a5is0o775adnumllugce30afqm2@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 01:21:00 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 9:07:25 PM UTC-7, Hamish Laws
>>wrote:
>>
>>> By invading the Ukraine now Russia has started discussions of
>>> Finland and Sweden joining NATO...
>>
>>But as the experience of Ukraine shows, this discussion needs to
>>be converted to actual membership for Finland very quickly, or
>>Finland will be invaded. The same applies to Georgia.
>
> Russia defeated the Swedes centuries ago. Well, per /Alexander
> Nevski/, anyway.
>
> The Soviet Union lost the Winter War to Finland just after
> gobbling up Eastern Poland and the Baltic States.
>
> Russia doesn't appear to be doing all /that/ well in the
> Ukraine, although it I suspect that, if they went to full
> mobilization, they would eventually wear them down. They have,
> after all, a much larger population. Might take a few years,
> though.
>
> But we shall see what we shall see.

In the long run, Russia has the resources to win militarily. If it
lasts that long.

The sanctions are aimed more and more at the billionarie oligarchs
who keep Putin in power, many of whom could field their own
military forces if necessary to depose him. Ukraine doesn't need to
win militarily, they only need to hold out long enough, and make
the invasion painful enough, for Putin to be deposed (probably
fatally). And regardless of what's happening on the ground (or in
the air), they're clearing winning the propaganda battle. Russia's
economy isn't the house of cards the China's has always been, but
that's mostly because they don't pretend otherwise as much.

It won't last much longer, one way or another.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:ovmh2hpsaqknok0vgtus9shmcpfm62uc9g@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 01:19:21 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 8:42:03 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 17:43:46 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> >So if the United States had put its troops on the Ukraine's
>>> >borders, and announces that while Ukraine is waiting to get
>>> >into NATO, it will still have the full ability to call on the
>>> >United States if it were attacked - we wouldn't be seeing the
>>> >current invasion. It would be no less insane to invade
>>> >Ukraine than to invade a NATO member, since the consequences
>>> >would be essentially the same.
>>
>>> So you're saying that Biden should go conquer Poland,
>>> Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, and/or Moldova? Because he doesn't
>>> get to station US troops on the borders of those countries
>>> until they agree to it. You think they're going to agree to
>>> some Yankee shithead starting a war in their back yard?
>>
>>No. I would have thought that what I was saying was not hard to
>>understand.
>>
>>When the U.S. prevented a Russian invasion of the German Federal
>>Republic by stationing troops on West Germany's border with East
>>Germany, they did not invade and conquer the German Democratic
>>Republic to station their troops inside East Germany. The troops
>>protecting West Germany were stationed inside West Germany.
>
> They were there as part of the NATO plan for defending Western
> Europe fromt the Soviet Union. It was /not/ a USA-only plan.
>
> You really don't have /any/ idea what you are nattering on
> about, do you.

Quddie: You're making Person, drooling moron that he is, look like
the smart one. Give it up.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> writes:
>On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 17:17:28 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>>On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:07:49 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>This attitude of intrinsic superiority over everyone is precisely what
>>>makes the alledged goal of having friendly nations on their borders
>>>unachievable. Centuries of pride and abuse and made them loathed by
>>>everybody who lives near them.
>>
>>Actually, for the last four centuries, the Russians have had a
>>huge inferiority complex when compared to the empire-builders
>>of that time (Spain, Portugal, England, France, Netherlands);
>>primarily due to their lack of warm-water ports. They didn't
>>sell Alaska to Seward because they liked the US, the did it to
>>poke the British in the eye and to thwart British ambitions on
>>the west coast of North America (Britian had claimed Oregon
>>and points north).
>
>In terms of International Empire Acquisition, yes.
>
>In terms of being a century or so behind the West, yes.
>
>But that didn't stop them from lording over the untermenschen (to
>borrow a phrase and apply it here) -- and it doesn't make the Poles,
>Baltic State residents, Ukrainians, and so on friends of the Great
>Russians.

I think you're being a bit disingenous here. The continuous
encroachment of NATO into Russian border states has enhanced
the Russian paranoia/Inferiority Complex (at least on the part of the cold-war
ex KGB agent leading the country).

Since the end of the cold war, the following countries have acceeded to NATO
voluntarily:

1997 Czech Republic
1997 Poland
2003 Bulgaria
2003 Estonia
2003 Latvia
2003 Lithuania
2003 Romania
2003 Slovak Republic
2003 Slovenia
2009 Albania
2009 Croatia
2016 Montenegro
2019 North Macedonia

The Russian in charge see that as threatening his
ability to acquire "empire".

>
>If they want friends on their borders, they have to start /treating/
>their neighbors as friends and as equals, not as inferiors.

That's just a start of the changes they need to make. Primarily, however,
they need a government that represents the people, not Putin's rich buddies.

On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 10:42:03 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:

[snip]

> "The Parties may, by unanimous agreement, invite any other European
> State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to
> contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area to accede to
> this Treaty."
>

During the de-Communization of what was to become the Russian
Federation, there were hints that, given sober and sane leadership
in Moscow, Russia could eventually join NATO, or at least the
"Partnership for Peace."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_Peace

Russia did join the "Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council,"

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro-Atlantic_Partnership_Council#The_USSR_at_the_North_Atlantic_Cooperation_Council

> See that word "unanimous"? What do you think it means?

That the US is still Athens before it seized the treasury of the Delian
League?

--
Kevin R

On 3/9/2022 10:00 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
> news:8a06a2a8-7424-4928-995d-cb4e572e8faen@googlegroups.com:
>
>> 1) Although not actively engaged in hostilities, *we are
>> at war*. That is the first thing to remember.
>>
> Ukraine is at war. The US and Canada are not.
>
> You've really lost yoru shit, son. You need help. Seriously.

John wants the USA to be what we are continuously accused of being, the
world's policeman.

We have played that game and spent most of our accumulated blood and
money. Now we are broke and tired and he wants us to stand up again and
take another punch. Screw you John ! Send your children to bleed for
the world, mine already went ! Twice !

And the long accumulated bills for Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan
will be coming due soon. I'll bet that John stands up and yells "you
people should be ashamed of yourselves !".

Lynn

On 2022-03-09 9:04 a.m., J. Clarke wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 01:19:21 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 8:42:03 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 17:43:46 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> So if the United States had put its troops on the Ukraine's borders,
>>>> and announces that while Ukraine is waiting to get into NATO,
>>>> it will still have the full ability to call on the United States if it were
>>>> attacked - we wouldn't be seeing the current invasion. It would be
>>>> no less insane to invade Ukraine than to invade a NATO member,
>>>> since the consequences would be essentially the same.
>>
>>> So you're saying that Biden should go conquer Poland, Slovakia,
>>> Hungary, Romania, and/or Moldova? Because he doesn't get to station
>>> US troops on the borders of those countries until they agree to it.
>>> You think they're going to agree to some Yankee shithead starting a
>>> war in their back yard?
>>
>> No. I would have thought that what I was saying was not hard to
>> understand.
>>
>> When the U.S. prevented a Russian invasion of the German Federal
>> Republic by stationing troops on West Germany's border with East
>> Germany, they did not invade and conquer the German Democratic
>> Republic to station their troops inside East Germany. The troops
>> protecting West Germany were stationed inside West Germany.
>
> Did he have the permission of West Germany to place them there?
>
> This is what you don't get--Biden can't just roll tanks into Poland
> without the permission of the Poles.
>
>> So what I am saying is: the United States does not need the permission
>> of other NATO countries to station U.S. troops inside Ukraine, with the
>> permission of the government of Ukraine, on its borders with:
>
> No, he need the permission of the government of Ukraine to do that,
> and of the countries surrounding Ukraine to move through them.

Did you read what you just replied to?

>> with the
>> permission of the government of Ukraine

On 3/9/2022 8:11 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> schrieb:
>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 6:28:55 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>>> Dude, you really have a bad case of TDS. Have you thought about taking
>>> anything for it ?
>>
>> If Trump, de Santis, or someone of that ilk gets elected in November of 2024,
>> my homeland, Canada, will be in essentially the same position as the Ukraine
>> just prior to the invasion... given that Trump was rescued from his most recent
>> bankruptcy by Russian oligarchs, it is difficult to take it seriously that he sees
>> Russia as any kind of threat.
>
> Assuming Trump is indeed in Russia's pocket, why did he berate
> Germany (and Merkel personally) for not doing more for its defense?
> Would it be in Russia's interest to have a well-armed Germany?
>
> (Scholz, Merkel's successor, has now agreed to do what Merkel would
> not do for Trump, by the way.)

Because the USA was shouldering the majority of the cost for NATO.
Trump's thoughts were that we should just dissolve NATO rather than
fight about the financing of NATO. After all, the USA does not really
have a dog in protecting central Europe from the Russians.

Lynn

J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 01:19:21 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
> wrote:

>>When the U.S. prevented a Russian invasion of the German Federal
>>Republic by stationing troops on West Germany's border with East
>>Germany, they did not invade and conquer the German Democratic
>>Republic to station their troops inside East Germany. The troops
>>protecting West Germany were stationed inside West Germany.

There was also the Bundeswehr at the time - a strength of
500 k, 11 divisions of them of land forces (in 1985, when
I was there).

At that time, the number of US troops in Germany was around
250 k in 1985. While the contribution of the US was certainly
significant (especially with nuclear weapons and with the ICBMs in
the background) the main strength of the defence of West Germany,
was, in fact, German.

There were also sectors assigned to other NATO members such as
the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands or Belgium.

> Did he have the permission of West Germany to place them there?

Yes.

> This is what you don't get--Biden can't just roll tanks into Poland
> without the permission of the Poles.

He certainly has that.

On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 2:06:35 PM UTC-5, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> J Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> schrieb:
> > On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 01:19:21 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
> > wrote:
>
> >>When the U.S. prevented a Russian invasion of the German Federal
> >>Republic by stationing troops on West Germany's border with East
> >>Germany, they did not invade and conquer the German Democratic
> >>Republic to station their troops inside East Germany. The troops
> >>protecting West Germany were stationed inside West Germany.
> There was also the Bundeswehr at the time - a strength of
> 500 k, 11 divisions of them of land forces (in 1985, when
> I was there).
>
> At that time, the number of US troops in Germany was around
> 250 k in 1985. While the contribution of the US was certainly
> significant (especially with nuclear weapons and with the ICBMs in
> the background) the main strength of the defence of West Germany,
> was, in fact, German.
>
> There were also sectors assigned to other NATO members such as
> the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands or Belgium.
> > Did he have the permission of West Germany to place them there?
> Yes.
> > This is what you don't get--Biden can't just roll tanks into Poland
> > without the permission of the Poles.
> He certainly has that.

Slight change in topic.

Here's Yakov Kedm and Vladimir Solovyov, two major Russian TV
propagandists, discussing the invasion (Yesterday evening, I suspect).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGmQAXfh4tk (2 minutes)

Here's the same pair discussing the topic 3 weeks ago:
https://www.facebook.com/nikola.repin/videos/a-sample-of-russian-propaganda-in-15-minutes-1322022en-subtitlesi-have-a-request/479208830525873/
(30 minutes)

The change in tone is remarkable. These two *know* the invasion
is going very badly.

pt

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:t0at76$cgt$1@dont-email.me:

> On 3/9/2022 10:00 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>> news:8a06a2a8-7424-4928-995d-cb4e572e8faen@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> 1) Although not actively engaged in hostilities, *we are
>>> at war*. That is the first thing to remember.
>>>
>> Ukraine is at war. The US and Canada are not.
>>
>> You've really lost yoru shit, son. You need help. Seriously.
>
> John wants the USA to be what we are continuously accused of
> being, the world's policeman.

What he really wants is a) to nuke brown people, and b) girls who
will let him touch their boobies without screaming in terror. Sadly,
for him, neither is likely to ever happen.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On 3/9/2022 4:22 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:t0at76$cgt$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 3/9/2022 10:00 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>> news:8a06a2a8-7424-4928-995d-cb4e572e8faen@googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> 1) Although not actively engaged in hostilities, *we are
>>>> at war*. That is the first thing to remember.
>>>>
>>> Ukraine is at war. The US and Canada are not.
>>>
>>> You've really lost yoru shit, son. You need help. Seriously.
>>
>> John wants the USA to be what we are continuously accused of
>> being, the world's policeman.
>
> What he really wants is a) to nuke brown people, and b) girls who
> will let him touch their boobies without screaming in terror. Sadly,
> for him, neither is likely to ever happen.

Wow, that is sad. My maternal grandmother was light brown with very
black eyes.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:t0bioi$o0n$1@dont-email.me:

> On 3/9/2022 4:22 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:t0at76$cgt$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 3/9/2022 10:00 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>> news:8a06a2a8-7424-4928-995d-cb4e572e8faen@googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>> 1) Although not actively engaged in hostilities, *we are
>>>>> at war*. That is the first thing to remember.
>>>>>
>>>> Ukraine is at war. The US and Canada are not.
>>>>
>>>> You've really lost yoru shit, son. You need help. Seriously.
>>>
>>> John wants the USA to be what we are continuously accused of
>>> being, the world's policeman.
>>
>> What he really wants is a) to nuke brown people, and b) girls
>> who will let him touch their boobies without screaming in
>> terror. Sadly, for him, neither is likely to ever happen.
>
> Wow, that is sad. My maternal grandmother was light brown with
> very black eyes.
>
You weren't aware of that already?

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 3/9/2022 9:49 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:t08vsj$t1s$4@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 3/8/2022 10:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:02:02 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 9:43:24 AM UTC-7, Paul S Person
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And, since Trump is a Putin sock puppet, those calling Putin
>>>>> "fascist" are saying the Republican Party is /still/ the
>>>>> Party of Hitler. But I am not.
>>>>
>>>> Putin's the Hitler. Trump is only the Mussolini. Or maybe even
>>>> the Franco.
>>>
>>> Well, Trump was as funny as Mussolini. That is, both were jokes
>>> as leaders go.
>>>
>>>> Trump as Franco - that would be a plus. That would mean that
>>>> while Xi and Putin were carving up the world, the U.S. would
>>>> actually decline to invade Canada.
>>
>> Dude, you really have a bad case of TDS. Have you thought about
>> taking anything for it ?
>>
> Perhaps it's being caused by what he's taking. Maybe something like
> LSD, or some sort of muchroom.

I do know this, many of the socalled experts think that the USA will
park all of the carriers before 2030 due to our inability to run a
budget without a two trillion dollar deficit. They think that we will
sacrifice the DOD to pay for Social Security and Medicare. So, we will
not be able to project any power beyond our shores.

Lynn

On 3/10/2022 12:57 AM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:t0bioi$o0n$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 3/9/2022 4:22 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:t0at76$cgt$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 3/9/2022 10:00 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>> news:8a06a2a8-7424-4928-995d-cb4e572e8faen@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Although not actively engaged in hostilities, *we are
>>>>>> at war*. That is the first thing to remember.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ukraine is at war. The US and Canada are not.
>>>>>
>>>>> You've really lost yoru shit, son. You need help. Seriously.
>>>>
>>>> John wants the USA to be what we are continuously accused of
>>>> being, the world's policeman.
>>>
>>> What he really wants is a) to nuke brown people, and b) girls
>>> who will let him touch their boobies without screaming in
>>> terror. Sadly, for him, neither is likely to ever happen.
>>
>> Wow, that is sad. My maternal grandmother was light brown with
>> very black eyes.
>>
> You weren't aware of that already?

Not really.

Lynn

On Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 12:45:45 AM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> I do know this, many of the socalled experts think that the USA will
> park all of the carriers before 2030 due to our inability to run a
> budget without a two trillion dollar deficit. They think that we will
> sacrifice the DOD to pay for Social Security and Medicare. So, we will
> not be able to project any power beyond our shores.

The United States is perfectly capable of having a balanced budget
while keeping Social Security and other social programs. It is only political
obstructionists who make it difficult to raise taxes to the level required to
cover government spending.

Of course, the U.S. defense budget should not be paid for by U.S. taxpayers.
It is countries like Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and China that have made it
necessary to _have_ one, so clearly the U.S. is owed quite a bit of money by
those countries.

At present, getting Russia and China to pay their share, of course, looks
somewhat more impractical than getting Mexico to pay for a border wall.
But someday that will change.

John Savard

On Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 12:54:34 AM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> Not really.

Surely you realize that Terry Austin is not a credible source.

Nuke brown people?

Certainly I support America against terrorism, and Israel against its
enemies. And the Coptic Christians against persecution in Egypt.

How the Coptic Christians are treated in Egypt shows what the Jews
of Israel could expect under Arab rule - at best - and explains why a
"one-state solution" is completely untenable.

After 9/11, I believe that allowing _any_ Muslim country to deny total
First Amendment-level equality to non-Muslims is to allow the mindset
that leads to terrorism to grow and fester.

So my wrath is directed at evil people who persecute minorities,
and do aggression against allies of the United States.

John Savard

On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 09:10:38 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:0omh2h1a5is0o775adnumllugce30afqm2@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 01:21:00 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 9:07:25 PM UTC-7, Hamish Laws
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> By invading the Ukraine now Russia has started discussions of
>>>> Finland and Sweden joining NATO...
>>>
>>>But as the experience of Ukraine shows, this discussion needs to
>>>be converted to actual membership for Finland very quickly, or
>>>Finland will be invaded. The same applies to Georgia.
>>
>> Russia defeated the Swedes centuries ago. Well, per /Alexander
>> Nevski/, anyway.
>>
>> The Soviet Union lost the Winter War to Finland just after
>> gobbling up Eastern Poland and the Baltic States.
>>
>> Russia doesn't appear to be doing all /that/ well in the
>> Ukraine, although it I suspect that, if they went to full
>> mobilization, they would eventually wear them down. They have,
>> after all, a much larger population. Might take a few years,
>> though.
>>
>> But we shall see what we shall see.
>
>In the long run, Russia has the resources to win militarily. If it
>lasts that long.
>
>The sanctions are aimed more and more at the billionarie oligarchs
>who keep Putin in power, many of whom could field their own
>military forces if necessary to depose him. Ukraine doesn't need to
>win militarily, they only need to hold out long enough, and make
>the invasion painful enough, for Putin to be deposed (probably
>fatally). And regardless of what's happening on the ground (or in
>the air), they're clearing winning the propaganda battle. Russia's
>economy isn't the house of cards the China's has always been, but
>that's mostly because they don't pretend otherwise as much.

IIRC, that worked with Serbia. With actually /bombing/ the rich
cronies assets (dams, power stations, etc) so they could watch their
wealth ... disappear. That got them to get Milesovich (IIRC) to
surrender (or to stop, it's been a while and details are fuzzy).

>It won't last much longer, one way or another.

It's already lasted too long for me. Two seconds would have been two
seconds too long.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 10:05:42 -0800 (PST), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 10:42:03 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> "The Parties may, by unanimous agreement, invite any other European
>> State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to
>> contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area to accede to
>> this Treaty."
>>
>
>During the de-Communization of what was to become the Russian
>Federation, there were hints that, given sober and sane leadership
>in Moscow, Russia could eventually join NATO, or at least the
>"Partnership for Peace."
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_Peace
>
>Russia did join the "Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council,"

I have long thought that Russia joining NATO would solve many
problems.

But, of course, the devil is in the details, and Putin's not
interested.

Makes me wonder to what extent invading Ukraine (and seizing the
Crimea before that) was intended to distract from pressing local
problems. Problems no doubt exacerbated by the sanctions.

>See:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro-Atlantic_Partnership_Council#The_USSR_at_the_North_Atlantic_Cooperation_Council
>
>> See that word "unanimous"? What do you think it means?
>
>That the US is still Athens before it seized the treasury of the Delian
>League?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 17:55:34 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 17:17:28 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>>>On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:07:49 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>This attitude of intrinsic superiority over everyone is precisely what
>>>>makes the alledged goal of having friendly nations on their borders
>>>>unachievable. Centuries of pride and abuse and made them loathed by
>>>>everybody who lives near them.
>>>
>>>Actually, for the last four centuries, the Russians have had a
>>>huge inferiority complex when compared to the empire-builders
>>>of that time (Spain, Portugal, England, France, Netherlands);
>>>primarily due to their lack of warm-water ports. They didn't
>>>sell Alaska to Seward because they liked the US, the did it to
>>>poke the British in the eye and to thwart British ambitions on
>>>the west coast of North America (Britian had claimed Oregon
>>>and points north).
>>
>>In terms of International Empire Acquisition, yes.
>>
>>In terms of being a century or so behind the West, yes.
>>
>>But that didn't stop them from lording over the untermenschen (to
>>borrow a phrase and apply it here) -- and it doesn't make the Poles,
>>Baltic State residents, Ukrainians, and so on friends of the Great
>>Russians.
>
>I think you're being a bit disingenous here. The continuous
>encroachment of NATO into Russian border states has enhanced
>the Russian paranoia/Inferiority Complex (at least on the part of the cold-war
>ex KGB agent leading the country).
>
>Since the end of the cold war, the following countries have acceeded to NATO
>voluntarily:
>
>1997 Czech Republic
>1997 Poland
>2003 Bulgaria
>2003 Estonia
>2003 Latvia
>2003 Lithuania
>2003 Romania
>2003 Slovak Republic
>2003 Slovenia
>2009 Albania
>2009 Croatia
>2016 Montenegro
>2019 North Macedonia

I think you mean "chose to join NATO". I doubt very much that NATO
pressured them into joining; what possible good could that do? If they
aren't enthusiastic members, they are just a drag on resources.

>The Russian in charge see that as threatening his
>ability to acquire "empire".

The Age of Empire is dead. The last to try were the Japanese, in WW2.

After that, it was all downhill for the existing empires.

>>If they want friends on their borders, they have to start /treating/
>>their neighbors as friends and as equals, not as inferiors.
>
>That's just a start of the changes they need to make. Primarily, however,
>they need a government that represents the people, not Putin's rich buddies.

Even with a democracy they would not get friendly neighbors without
mending their behavior. And removing structurally-embedded prejudice
is difficult, as we are finding out ourselves.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:t0carm$osf$1@dont-email.me:

> On 3/10/2022 12:57 AM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:t0bioi$o0n$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 3/9/2022 4:22 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:t0at76$cgt$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/9/2022 10:00 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>>> news:8a06a2a8-7424-4928-995d-cb4e572e8faen@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) Although not actively engaged in hostilities, *we are
>>>>>>> at war*. That is the first thing to remember.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ukraine is at war. The US and Canada are not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've really lost yoru shit, son. You need help.
>>>>>> Seriously.
>>>>>
>>>>> John wants the USA to be what we are continuously accused of
>>>>> being, the world's policeman.
>>>>
>>>> What he really wants is a) to nuke brown people, and b) girls
>>>> who will let him touch their boobies without screaming in
>>>> terror. Sadly, for him, neither is likely to ever happen.
>>>
>>> Wow, that is sad. My maternal grandmother was light brown
>>> with very black eyes.
>>>
>> You weren't aware of that already?
>
> Not really.
>
What Usenet have you been reading for the last couple of decades?

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:53566e22-f9e5-4367-8749-fde2f89dbf0dn@googlegroups.com:

> On Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 12:54:34 AM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire
> wrote:
>
>> Not really.
>
> Surely you realize that Terry Austin is not a credible source.
>
I'm sure he realizes that you're not a credible source of anything,
including whether or not I'm a credible source.

<Racist crap snipped>

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:t0cab4$c1v$1@dont-email.me:

> On 3/9/2022 9:49 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:t08vsj$t1s$4@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 3/8/2022 10:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:02:02 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 9:43:24 AM UTC-7, Paul S Person
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And, since Trump is a Putin sock puppet, those calling
>>>>>> Putin "fascist" are saying the Republican Party is /still/
>>>>>> the Party of Hitler. But I am not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Putin's the Hitler. Trump is only the Mussolini. Or maybe
>>>>> even the Franco.
>>>>
>>>> Well, Trump was as funny as Mussolini. That is, both were
>>>> jokes as leaders go.
>>>>
>>>>> Trump as Franco - that would be a plus. That would mean that
>>>>> while Xi and Putin were carving up the world, the U.S. would
>>>>> actually decline to invade Canada.
>>>
>>> Dude, you really have a bad case of TDS. Have you thought
>>> about taking anything for it ?
>>>
>> Perhaps it's being caused by what he's taking. Maybe something
>> like LSD, or some sort of muchroom.
>
> I do know this, many of the socalled experts think that the USA
> will park all of the carriers before 2030 due to our inability
> to run a budget without a two trillion dollar deficit. They
> think that we will sacrifice the DOD to pay for Social Security
> and Medicare. So, we will not be able to project any power
> beyond our shores.
>
It's possible. It's also possible we'll sacrifice old people. One
never knows what politicians will do, often even after they've done
it.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> writes:
>On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 17:55:34 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)

>>Since the end of the cold war, the following countries have acceeded to NATO
>>voluntarily:
>>
>>1997 Czech Republic
>>1997 Poland
>>2003 Bulgaria
>>2003 Estonia
>>2003 Latvia
>>2003 Lithuania
>>2003 Romania
>>2003 Slovak Republic
>>2003 Slovenia
>>2009 Albania
>>2009 Croatia
>>2016 Montenegro
>>2019 North Macedonia
>
>I think you mean "chose to join NATO".

Do look up the word 'accession'.