Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Perhaps railtours are planned for 75mph by default? That won't prevent them
>>> from actually running at the maximum speed of loco/stock, where
>>> appropriate.
>>
>> I think, only diesel hauled, and only with locos capable of at least that
>> speed.
>
> Yea, that's more accurately what I meant.
>
> But tours hauled by 95 or 100mph capable diesel locos appear only to be
> pathed for 75?
>
>> Steam tours, and those hauled by class 59/60 locos, are pathed for
>> 60mph.
>
> And class 20s.
>
>> Electric hauled are pathed for at least 90mph.
>>
>
> Thanks!
>

I've found an example of train hauled by 86259 (Les Ross/Peter Pan) pathed
for 100mph:
<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U63697/2022-02-26/detailed>

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> As we all know, there's a high probability that BoJo will soon be
>>> leaving politics, but he will most likely be replaced
>>> by another Brexiteer with a better chance of winning the 2024 general election.
>>
>> Don't count your chickens, Bojo is relying on Putin to do a Maggie for
>> him. When he says you will need tanks to get him out of Downing Street
>> he wasn't joking.
>
> He won't go voluntarily, but he'll still be evicted. Of course, it may
> well be Carrie who decides she's had enough (I
> wonder what the Ashcroft excerpt in tomorrow's Mail will say to annoy
> her?), and tells him to resign. It's ironic that
> it's the Mail, Telegraph and Spectator which are now the most difficult
> reading for the hapless Johnsons, not the Mirror
> and Guardian.
>

As the Brexit issue recedes into history there will cracks over other
issues,
my local MP Sir Desmond Swayne an avid supporter of Boris has acquired a
bit of reputation while not actually being an antivaxer has long supported
the idea that Covid regs are an invasion of civil liberties that destroys
commerce.
It has been quite entertaining to see after his somewhat theatrical
contributions in the House
Boris just bats him off. So much for loyalty.
Nice to see that gurning idiot Andrew Bridgen who claimed on national radio
that we could all obtain Irish Passports is under investigation for some
irregularities .

<https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/andrew-bridgen-paid-lobbying-tory-mp-b2013468.html>

GH

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 14:05, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:14:29 +0000, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:27, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <suqh0e$447$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:48 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>>>>> 2022, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Two other railtours / charters have managed to run today (19 February),
>>>>>>>>> albeit both running rather late:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Reading to Lincoln:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +137 at Banbury!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and Telford Central to Appleby:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detaile
>>>>>>>>> d#allox_id=0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are either of them kettles?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, as you can see from RTT, they're diesel-hauled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to reports elsewhere, a Class 68 to Lincoln, and a pair of 47s
>>>>>> to Appleby and back.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, the 47s were identified. I wonder why the 68 was pathed as only a
>>>>> 75mph loco? It's the most powerful diesel loco
>>>>> in service in the UK, and can easily pull a train like that at 100mph.
>>>>
>>>> What is says is that it is planned for 75mph. I don't know what the
>>>> consist is but is there a 75mph limited coach included?
>>>> I don't suppose the route beyond Banbury is cleared for much more than
>>>> 75mph anyway.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps railtours are planned for 75mph by default? That won't prevent them
>>> from actually running at the maximum speed of loco/stock, where
>>> appropriate.
>>
>> I think, only diesel hauled, and only with locos capable of at least that
>> speed.
>
> Yea, that's more accurately what I meant.
>
> But tours hauled by 95 or 100mph capable diesel locos appear only to be
> pathed for 75?
>

Here's a diesel rail tour, presumed to be hauled by a 67, pathed at 95mph:
<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64048/2022-02-26/detailed>

I'll be on it, weather permitting.

In message <sut7m1$aqg$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:12:01 on Sun, 20 Feb
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>> But that will be a very different election, because the public is
>>now much more alert to broken-pledge syndrome, so won't be so easily
>>fooled.
>
>Johnson was already well known as a proven liar, and it seemingly made no
>difference at all, presumably because most voters think that's true of all
>politicians (which it is, to a degree).

I think it was more a case of "he's promising something we are
relatively unfamiliar of, so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt
despite his track record".

Otherwise known as "New Scientist syndrome": which is where everything
they write about a subject with which you have some familiarity is
wrong, but nevertheless doggedly believe that all the others are
correct.

My alarms bells ring when someone suggests the way my car's traction
control copes with slippery conditions is to start off in 3rd gear, when
the *exact opposite* is true: it starts in 1st and doesn't change up
until much higher engine revs than it would otherwise.

If they didn't know that, what else are they bluffing about?
--
Roland Perry

In message <j7eo68F18mpU1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:49:28 on Sun, 20
Feb 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:

>What frustrates many is that they have an oil fired heating system or range
>stoves that have become useless because they won’t function without
>electric.

The gas hob on my range works without electricity, whereas the electric
oven won't even work after power has been restored unless I reset the
clock/timer.

>People really should make some back up rather than depend 100% on a mains
>supply.

UPS under the desk! Previously I've had *much* larger ones (ex
data-centre), but they are too heavy for me to heave around now.

>I made the decision when we had the Wood burner installed to keep it simple
> and have its water boiler connected using the old gravity system. No
>electrics to depend on.

>Flat topped so kettle and pots heat nicely.

While my Wood Burner is entirely non-electric (apart from the
aftermarket Peltiar fan) it's flat-topped, and even not in a power
cut my kettle sits on the hob.

I've also got solar panel in the car, intended for use by boaters, to
keep the battery topped up if I don't use it for extended periods.

And somewhere there's a camping-gas hob as a last resort (came in handy
when my builders fled at the start of lockdown, having stripped out the
old kitchen, but not begun installing the new one). Was all supposed to
take a couple of weeks - ended up being more like six months.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sut7m1$aqg$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:12:01 on Sun, 20 Feb
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> But that will be a very different election, because the public is
>>> now much more alert to broken-pledge syndrome, so won't be so easily
>>> fooled.
>>
>> Johnson was already well known as a proven liar, and it seemingly made no
>> difference at all, presumably because most voters think that's true of all
>> politicians (which it is, to a degree).
>
> I think it was more a case of "he's promising something we are
> relatively unfamiliar of, so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt
> despite his track record".
>
> Otherwise known as "New Scientist syndrome": which is where everything
> they write about a subject with which you have some familiarity is
> wrong, but nevertheless doggedly believe that all the others are
> correct.
>
> My alarms bells ring when someone suggests the way my car's traction
> control copes with slippery conditions is to start off in 3rd gear, when
> the *exact opposite* is true: it starts in 1st and doesn't change up
> until much higher engine revs than it would otherwise.
>
> If they didn't know that, what else are they bluffing about?

It was a suggestion to try, because that's how it works in some other cars.
I apologise profusely for not knowing the details of exactly how the
transmission in your elderly Ford Mondeo derivative works. Neither, btw,
did you know how your own car worked till you tried my experiment.

In message <sut7tb$c9f$3@dont-email.me>, at 11:15:55 on Sun, 20 Feb
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't even want to edit (no enhancing) video on a phone, which
>>is probably why we get aberrations like the Youtube of FS on its way
>>to London the other day, with about 10% useful content in it.
>
>Actually I find the video editing software on my phone to be far, far
>better and quicker than any such software I ever had on PC.

I surprises me that it could automatically do things like spot
scene-changes, then mix in additional audio channels, crop, and
anti-shake, export in numerous formats, much as typical PC editing
software does. But sounds like you've found a good'un.

My latest one (an add-on) does enhancement to produce things like this:

https://youtu.be/nX20gGVJkbo

A vast improvement on the 2010 original (see for example the trackside
mast at one minute in[1]), but still too shaky because there's a lot of
sky in it and anti-shake trims all the borders so you lose the track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RVmXxHbEPQ

[1] http://www.perry.co.uk/images/before-and-after.jpg
--
Roland Perry

In message <3UqQJ.92077$sga6.42831@fx10.ams1>, at 12:56:31 on Sun, 20
Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sut7m1$aqg$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:12:01 on Sun, 20 Feb
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> But that will be a very different election, because the public is
>>>> now much more alert to broken-pledge syndrome, so won't be so easily
>>>> fooled.
>>>
>>> Johnson was already well known as a proven liar, and it seemingly made no
>>> difference at all, presumably because most voters think that's true of all
>>> politicians (which it is, to a degree).
>>
>> I think it was more a case of "he's promising something we are
>> relatively unfamiliar of, so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt
>> despite his track record".
>>
>> Otherwise known as "New Scientist syndrome": which is where everything
>> they write about a subject with which you have some familiarity is
>> wrong, but nevertheless doggedly believe that all the others are
>> correct.
>>
>> My alarms bells ring when someone suggests the way my car's traction
>> control copes with slippery conditions is to start off in 3rd gear, when
>> the *exact opposite* is true: it starts in 1st and doesn't change up
>> until much higher engine revs than it would otherwise.
>>
>> If they didn't know that, what else are they bluffing about?
>
>It was a suggestion to try, because that's how it works in some other cars.

It's a method advised long ago for manually driven cars. There's no
reason at all to suppose an automatic box would have the same
characteristic, given that it also has millisecond wheel-slip detection
and response.

>I apologise profusely for not knowing the details of exactly how the
>transmission in your elderly Ford Mondeo derivative works.

It can easily be looked up. And love the old and creaky playbook, by the
way. Gets tiresome eventually. And the same innovative transmission is
still being delivered on new vehicles (just a revised branding).

>Neither, btw, did you know how your own car worked till you tried my
>experiment.

I had previously mentioned how it felt like the transmission was holding
the car back (ie not going as fast as the accelerator pressure would
invoke when in normal mode). And scepticism about the whole idea of
starting in 3rd. All I did was confirm this by a scientific observation.
--
Roland Perry

On 20/02/2022 12:25, Marland wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> As we all know, there's a high probability that BoJo will soon be
>>>> leaving politics, but he will most likely be replaced
>>>> by another Brexiteer with a better chance of winning the 2024 general election.
>>>
>>> Don't count your chickens, Bojo is relying on Putin to do a Maggie for
>>> him. When he says you will need tanks to get him out of Downing Street
>>> he wasn't joking.
>>
>> He won't go voluntarily, but he'll still be evicted. Of course, it may
>> well be Carrie who decides she's had enough (I
>> wonder what the Ashcroft excerpt in tomorrow's Mail will say to annoy
>> her?), and tells him to resign. It's ironic that
>> it's the Mail, Telegraph and Spectator which are now the most difficult
>> reading for the hapless Johnsons, not the Mirror
>> and Guardian.
>>
>
> As the Brexit issue recedes into history there will cracks over other
> issues,
> my local MP Sir Desmond Swayne an avid supporter of Boris has acquired a
> bit of reputation while not actually being an antivaxer has long supported
> the idea that Covid regs are an invasion of civil liberties that destroys
> commerce.
> It has been quite entertaining to see after his somewhat theatrical
> contributions in the House
> Boris just bats him off. So much for loyalty.
> Nice to see that gurning idiot Andrew Bridgen who claimed on national radio
> that we could all obtain Irish Passports is under investigation for some
> irregularities .
>
> <https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/andrew-bridgen-paid-lobbying-tory-mp-b2013468.html>
>

Apparently Johnson is declaring the civid crisis over next week so in a
couple of weeks it will obvious to all if covid or brexit is responsible.

On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:41:46 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <3UqQJ.92077$sga6.42831@fx10.ams1>, at 12:56:31 on Sun, 20
>Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sut7m1$aqg$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:12:01 on Sun, 20 Feb
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> But that will be a very different election, because the public is
>>>>> now much more alert to broken-pledge syndrome, so won't be so easily
>>>>> fooled.
>>>>
>>>> Johnson was already well known as a proven liar, and it seemingly made no
>>>> difference at all, presumably because most voters think that's true of all
>>>> politicians (which it is, to a degree).
>>>
>>> I think it was more a case of "he's promising something we are
>>> relatively unfamiliar of, so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt
>>> despite his track record".
>>>
>>> Otherwise known as "New Scientist syndrome": which is where everything
>>> they write about a subject with which you have some familiarity is
>>> wrong, but nevertheless doggedly believe that all the others are
>>> correct.
>>>
>>> My alarms bells ring when someone suggests the way my car's traction
>>> control copes with slippery conditions is to start off in 3rd gear, when
>>> the *exact opposite* is true: it starts in 1st and doesn't change up
>>> until much higher engine revs than it would otherwise.
>>>
>>> If they didn't know that, what else are they bluffing about?
>>
>>It was a suggestion to try, because that's how it works in some other cars.
>
>It's a method advised long ago for manually driven cars. There's no
>reason at all to suppose an automatic box would have the same
>characteristic, given that it also has millisecond wheel-slip detection
>and response.

In my car, D starts in second gear. If it had an ice mode, it probably would start in third gear.

>
>>I apologise profusely for not knowing the details of exactly how the
>>transmission in your elderly Ford Mondeo derivative works.
>
>It can easily be looked up. And love the old and creaky playbook, by the
>way. Gets tiresome eventually. And the same innovative transmission is
>still being delivered on new vehicles (just a revised branding).

The Mondeo-derivative version you have is the cheaper, simplified, early version of the full-fat original that's used in
proper Land Rovers and Range Rovers. And, yes, of course it continues to be developed. Why wouldn't it?

>
>>Neither, btw, did you know how your own car worked till you tried my
>>experiment.
>
>I had previously mentioned how it felt like the transmission was holding
>the car back (ie not going as fast as the accelerator pressure would
>invoke when in normal mode). And scepticism about the whole idea of
>starting in 3rd. All I did was confirm this by a scientific observation.

Which I suggested.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 20/02/2022 10:20, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <sus5al$fgn$10@dont-email.me>, at 01:25:41 on Sun, 20 Feb
>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>>>> space-separated characters:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> ¶
>>>
>>> This always used to be a symbol used in the locomotive allocation
>>> books for
>>> spotters! I think it meant dual braked, perhaps?
>>>
>>> I don't think I've seen it used in any other context.
>>
>> It was a "Pointless" answer on a popular [M'lud] teatime quiz show,
>> about three years ago.
>>
>> Quite pleased I knew it (while I have no ambition to go on the show; but
>> like University Challenge, from the less-stressful situation of my sofa,
>> I generally score at least as well as the winning contestants).
>>
>> In my first year at University, my College had won University Challenge
>> the previous season. Normally populated by second-years (first years not
>> yet engaged with it, third years not wanting the distraction from their
>> Finals). So seeing members of the winning team (by then third years)
>> every day, was a bit surreal.
>
> According to a 1960s era Ian Allan combine it meant "trains fitted with
> air-brake equipment" In other words, dual-braked.

I’ve always known it as “paragraph” - it was used in printings of the King
James Bible, which started each verse on a new line, as showing where a
paragraph might start (IIUC the original languages didn’t use paragraphs,
so it was always a bit speculative, but then they didn’t have other
punctuation either).

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 19:33, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 17:51, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:32:10 +0000, Graeme Wall
>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 19/02/2022 17:25, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:57:04 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <f2021hta4h84u9a0l75aj1981g3avu1aa0@4ax.com>, at
>>>>>> 14:39:11 on
>>>>>> Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll
>>>>>>>> get with
>>>>>>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling
>>>>>>>> out as
>>>>>>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to
>>>>>>>> go to my
>>>>>>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake
>>>>>>> Brexit was,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a point, because the perpetrators are still in power, and are
>>>>>> screwing up the aftermath.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, criticise them for their current incompetence, not what they
>>>>> said in 2016.
>>>>
>>>> That's all the brexiteers can do, keep harking back to what they claim
>>>> other people said 6 years ago rather than face up to reality of what is
>>>> happening now.
>>>
>>> The hardline Brexiteers want to see deregulation, Article 16 to be The
>>> triggered in NI, and taxes cut. BoJo gave them
>>> Brexit, but not the flavour of Brexit they wanted.
>>
>> As they all want different things he can't deliver. No-one outside the
>> ERG actually wants or can afford any serious deregulation.[1] Triggering
>> Article 16 doesn't solve the NI problem, in fact it makes it worse.
>> Taxes can't be cut because of the short-fall of tax income because of
>> the drop in trade caused by brexit.
>>
>> [1] Interesting quote from an Irish journo, Nick Tyrone, about Mogg's
>> new "job":
>>
>> Anyhow, it’s worth gazing into a crystal ball and wondering what will
>> happen under Rees-Mogg’s reign as Brexit Opportunities Minister. I
>> reckon he’ll do what everyone who has tried to solve this conundrum has
>> done before. He’ll ask businesses and get next to nothing back. They
>> don’t really want to change much. Then he’ll figure he needs to speak to
>> small businesses, only to find that’s really logistically difficult and
>> besides, they don’t actually want to change much either, convinced that
>> whatever the government does will almost certainly make things worse.
>> Then the stuff he’ll find using Brexity think tank types will all be
>> about the slashing of workers rights, getting rid of construction
>> safeguards, that type of thing, which will just be rejected by whomever
>> is the prime minister out of hand, or will meet with such opposition
>> from campaign groups and the public that it will all be dropped. In the
>> end, Rees-Mogg will come up as empty handed as everyone else who has
>> attempted the same exercise.
>>
>>
>
> The amusing thing is that most of the construction safeguards (and other
> health and safety) originate from HMG regulation in the first place.
>

And Integrated Pollution Prevention and Control, and lots of other things.
We were very influential when it came to making European Regulations.

--
Jeremy Double

In message
<776754751.667075660.929017.jmd.nospam-btinternet.com@news.individual.net
>, at 18:48:54 on Sun, 20 Feb 2022, Jeremy Double
<jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> remarked:

>> The amusing thing is that most of the construction safeguards (and other
>> health and safety) originate from HMG regulation in the first place.
>
>And Integrated Pollution Prevention and Control, and lots of other things.
>We were very influential when it came to making European Regulations.

Especially in the telecoms and privacy arenas, which is where I was
working. More recently Germany took the lead on privacy, but the Brits
started it with the ECHR and at the OECD.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 07:37:11 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:00:10 +0000,
>> martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>> Network
>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>> for this
>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>>> a full
>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to email
>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>> I have been in hotels where both the mobile data and hotel WiFi have
>> been next to useless.
>>
>
>Recently? Unless it’s a hotel in the middle of nowhere with no competition
>and has an overwhelming selling point, it’s not going to survive these
>days. Even the big brand hotels have had to give up trying to charge for
>WiFi.
>
I've had it with both Holiday Inn and Premier Inn but I suspect the
other guests didn't have the WiFi ay the top of their priority list.
The hotels weren't in the middle of nowhere but the signal strength
suggested that (relative to the rooms) the routers probably were.

On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 09:09:23 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 20/02/2022 06:31, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:00:10 +0000,
>> martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>> Network
>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>> for this
>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>>> a full
>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to email
>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>> I have been in hotels where both the mobile data and hotel WiFi have
>> been next to useless.
>
>In which case you are stuffed.
>
.... or have to go for a walk.
I've also been in a couple of entertainment venues in London where
plan B was to use the WiFi from the hotel next door. The worst places
for access are large football grounds during a game. Even where WiFi
is installed, the throughput tends to zero much of the time with
mobile data going the same way.

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 20/02/2022 10:20, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <sus5al$fgn$10@dont-email.me>, at 01:25:41 on Sun, 20 Feb
>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>>>>> space-separated characters:
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>> ¶
>>>>
>>>> This always used to be a symbol used in the locomotive allocation
>>>> books for
>>>> spotters! I think it meant dual braked, perhaps?
>>>>
>>>> I don't think I've seen it used in any other context.
>>>
>>> It was a "Pointless" answer on a popular [M'lud] teatime quiz show,
>>> about three years ago.
>>>
>>> Quite pleased I knew it (while I have no ambition to go on the show; but
>>> like University Challenge, from the less-stressful situation of my sofa,
>>> I generally score at least as well as the winning contestants).
>>>
>>> In my first year at University, my College had won University Challenge
>>> the previous season. Normally populated by second-years (first years not
>>> yet engaged with it, third years not wanting the distraction from their
>>> Finals). So seeing members of the winning team (by then third years)
>>> every day, was a bit surreal.
>>
>> According to a 1960s era Ian Allan combine it meant "trains fitted with
>> air-brake equipment" In other words, dual-braked.
>
> I’ve always known it as “paragraph” - it was used in printings of the King
> James Bible, which started each verse on a new line, as showing where a
> paragraph might start (IIUC the original languages didn’t use paragraphs,
> so it was always a bit speculative, but then they didn’t have other
> punctuation either).

Of course it’s the symbol used in Microsoft Word when you turn on the “show
paragraph marks” feature.

--
Jeremy Double

On 21/02/2022 04:32, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 09:09:23 +0000, Graeme Wall
> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 20/02/2022 06:31, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:00:10 +0000,
>>> martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to email
>>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>> I have been in hotels where both the mobile data and hotel WiFi have
>>> been next to useless.
>>
>> In which case you are stuffed.
>>
> ... or have to go for a walk.
> I've also been in a couple of entertainment venues in London where
> plan B was to use the WiFi from the hotel next door. The worst places
> for access are large football grounds during a game. Even where WiFi
> is installed, the throughput tends to zero much of the time with
> mobile data going the same way.

25000 people all trying to use the same cell at the same time, who would
have expected that.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <suvg6e$q4v$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:49:34 on Mon, 21 Feb
2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>> I've also been in a couple of entertainment venues in London where
>> plan B was to use the WiFi from the hotel next door. The worst places
>> for access are large football grounds during a game. Even where WiFi
>> is installed, the throughput tends to zero much of the time with
>> mobile data going the same way.
>
>25000 people all trying to use the same cell at the same time, who
>would have expected that.

Except football stadiums (stadia?), along with Oxford St etc,
were one of the first places that microcells were deployed.

You'd also hope da-management would provide a range of wifi
points aligned with the various networks that attendees would
have credentials for.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <suvg6e$q4v$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:49:34 on Mon, 21 Feb
> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>> I've also been in a couple of entertainment venues in London where
>>> plan B was to use the WiFi from the hotel next door. The worst places
>>> for access are large football grounds during a game. Even where WiFi
>>> is installed, the throughput tends to zero much of the time with
>>> mobile data going the same way.
>>
>> 25000 people all trying to use the same cell at the same time, who
>> would have expected that.
>
> Except football stadiums (stadia?), along with Oxford St etc,
> were one of the first places that microcells were deployed.
>
> You'd also hope da-management would provide a range of wifi
> points aligned with the various networks that attendees would
> have credentials for.

Stadium WiFi, and indeed any location with densely packed clients, is very
challenging and, at least initially, very very expensive. The tech has
advanced but it used to be that you needed very large numbers of low power
access points. One case study I saw showed that the number of APs had to
be approximately tripled after initial experiments. Another had the APs
fixed under the floor of the seating inside wireless absorbing enclosures
so the signal was directed upwards.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Jeremy Double <jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 20/02/2022 10:20, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <sus5al$fgn$10@dont-email.me>, at 01:25:41 on Sun, 20 Feb
>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>>>>>> space-separated characters:
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>> ¶
>>>>>
>>>>> This always used to be a symbol used in the locomotive allocation
>>>>> books for
>>>>> spotters! I think it meant dual braked, perhaps?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think I've seen it used in any other context.
>>>>
>>>> It was a "Pointless" answer on a popular [M'lud] teatime quiz show,
>>>> about three years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Quite pleased I knew it (while I have no ambition to go on the show; but
>>>> like University Challenge, from the less-stressful situation of my sofa,
>>>> I generally score at least as well as the winning contestants).
>>>>
>>>> In my first year at University, my College had won University Challenge
>>>> the previous season. Normally populated by second-years (first years not
>>>> yet engaged with it, third years not wanting the distraction from their
>>>> Finals). So seeing members of the winning team (by then third years)
>>>> every day, was a bit surreal.
>>>
>>> According to a 1960s era Ian Allan combine it meant "trains fitted with
>>> air-brake equipment" In other words, dual-braked.
>>
>> I’ve always known it as “paragraph” - it was used in printings of the King
>> James Bible, which started each verse on a new line, as showing where a
>> paragraph might start (IIUC the original languages didn’t use paragraphs,
>> so it was always a bit speculative, but then they didn’t have other
>> punctuation either).
>
> Of course it’s the symbol used in Microsoft Word when you turn on the “show
> paragraph marks” feature.

And I think in Apple word processors with “Show invisibles” before that. I
don’t know about Apple’s predecessors.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <suvqhj$u1h$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:46:11 on Mon, 21 Feb
2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <suvg6e$q4v$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:49:34 on Mon, 21 Feb
>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>> I've also been in a couple of entertainment venues in London where
>>>> plan B was to use the WiFi from the hotel next door. The worst places
>>>> for access are large football grounds during a game. Even where WiFi
>>>> is installed, the throughput tends to zero much of the time with
>>>> mobile data going the same way.
>>>
>>> 25000 people all trying to use the same cell at the same time, who
>>> would have expected that.
>>
>> Except football stadiums (stadia?), along with Oxford St etc,
>> were one of the first places that microcells were deployed.
>>
>> You'd also hope da-management would provide a range of wifi
>> points aligned with the various networks that attendees would
>> have credentials for.
>
>Stadium WiFi, and indeed any location with densely packed clients, is very
>challenging and, at least initially, very very expensive. The tech has
>advanced but it used to be that you needed very large numbers of low power
>access points. One case study I saw showed that the number of APs had to
>be approximately tripled after initial experiments. Another had the APs
>fixed under the floor of the seating inside wireless absorbing enclosures
>so the signal was directed upwards.

The Premier League has an annual income of more than 2bn, I'm sure the
can afford it. And the organisation(s) I was working for around the
Millennium invented mass-wifi at event venues - to avoid having to plumb
Cat5 to every seat, which really was a huge PITA.
--
Roland Perry

On 21/02/2022 09:20, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <suvg6e$q4v$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:49:34 on Mon, 21 Feb
> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>> I've also been in a couple of entertainment venues in London where
>>> plan B was to use the WiFi from the hotel next door. The worst places
>>> for access are large football grounds during a game. Even where WiFi
>>> is installed, the throughput tends to zero much of the time with
>>> mobile data going the same way.
>>
>> 25000 people all trying to use the same cell at the same time, who
>> would have expected that.
>
> Except football stadiums (stadia?), along with Oxford St etc,
> were one of the first places that microcells were deployed.

Thought that was Galdtonbury.

>
> You'd also hope da-management would provide a range of wifi
> points aligned with the various networks that attendees would
> have credentials for.

We are talking football here, they provide the minimum facilities they
can get away with for the maximum they can con people into paying.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 21/02/2022 12:13, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 21/02/2022 09:20, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <suvg6e$q4v$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:49:34 on Mon, 21 Feb
>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>> I've also been in a couple of entertainment venues in London where
>>>> plan B was to use the WiFi from the hotel next door. The worst places
>>>> for access are large football grounds during a game. Even where WiFi
>>>> is installed, the throughput tends to zero much of the time with
>>>> mobile data going the same way.
>>>
>>> 25000 people all trying to use the same cell at the same time, who
>>> would have expected that.
>>
>> Except football stadiums (stadia?), along with Oxford St etc,
>> were one of the first places that microcells were deployed.
>
> Thought that was Galdtonbury.

Glastonbury

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 21/02/2022 11:48, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <suvqhj$u1h$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:46:11 on Mon, 21 Feb
> 2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <suvg6e$q4v$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:49:34 on Mon, 21 Feb
>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> I've also been in a couple of entertainment venues in London where
>>>>> plan B was to use the WiFi from the hotel next door. The worst places
>>>>> for access are large football grounds during a game. Even where WiFi
>>>>> is installed, the throughput tends to zero much of the time with
>>>>> mobile data going the same way.
>>>>
>>>> 25000 people all trying to use the same cell at the same time, who
>>>> would have expected that.
>>>
>>> Except football stadiums (stadia?), along with Oxford St etc,
>>> were one of the first places that microcells were deployed.
>>>
>>> You'd also hope da-management would provide a range of wifi
>>> points aligned with the various networks that attendees would
>>> have credentials for.
>>
>> Stadium WiFi, and indeed any location with densely packed clients, is
>> very
>> challenging and, at least initially, very very expensive.  The tech has
>> advanced but it used to be that you needed very large numbers of low
>> power
>> access points.  One case study I saw showed that the number of APs had to
>> be approximately tripled after initial experiments.  Another had the APs
>> fixed under the floor of the seating inside wireless absorbing enclosures
>> so the signal was directed upwards.
>
> The Premier League has an annual income of more than 2bn, I'm sure the
> can afford it. And the organisation(s) I was working for around the
> Millennium invented mass-wifi at event venues - to avoid having to plumb
> Cat5 to every seat, which really was a huge PITA.

I thought the Premier League spent all their money on prima donnas with
little left for anyone or anything else?

In message <0hj41htighhc29luaiuk61qiu9pcai2i08@4ax.com>, at 14:23:28 on
Sun, 20 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:41:46 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <3UqQJ.92077$sga6.42831@fx10.ams1>, at 12:56:31 on Sun, 20
>>Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sut7m1$aqg$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:12:01 on Sun, 20 Feb
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> But that will be a very different election, because the public is
>>>>>> now much more alert to broken-pledge syndrome, so won't be so easily
>>>>>> fooled.
>>>>>
>>>>> Johnson was already well known as a proven liar, and it seemingly made no
>>>>> difference at all, presumably because most voters think that's true of all
>>>>> politicians (which it is, to a degree).
>>>>
>>>> I think it was more a case of "he's promising something we are
>>>> relatively unfamiliar of, so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt
>>>> despite his track record".
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise known as "New Scientist syndrome": which is where everything
>>>> they write about a subject with which you have some familiarity is
>>>> wrong, but nevertheless doggedly believe that all the others are
>>>> correct.
>>>>
>>>> My alarms bells ring when someone suggests the way my car's traction
>>>> control copes with slippery conditions is to start off in 3rd gear, when
>>>> the *exact opposite* is true: it starts in 1st and doesn't change up
>>>> until much higher engine revs than it would otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> If they didn't know that, what else are they bluffing about?
>>>
>>>It was a suggestion to try, because that's how it works in some other cars.
>>
>>It's a method advised long ago for manually driven cars. There's no
>>reason at all to suppose an automatic box would have the same
>>characteristic, given that it also has millisecond wheel-slip detection
>>and response.
>
>In my car, D starts in second gear. If it had an ice mode, it probably
>would start in third gear.

I have no idea why they'd design something as broken as that.

>>>I apologise profusely for not knowing the details of exactly how the
>>>transmission in your elderly Ford Mondeo derivative works.
>>
>>It can easily be looked up. And love the old and creaky playbook, by the
>>way. Gets tiresome eventually. And the same innovative transmission is
>>still being delivered on new vehicles (just a revised branding).
>
>The Mondeo-derivative version you have is the cheaper, simplified,
>early version of the full-fat original that's used in proper Land
>Rovers and Range Rovers. And, yes, of course it continues to be
>developed. Why wouldn't it?

That conflicts with the sources I have, which say the Terrain Control
was new for the Freelander 2.

--
Roland Perry