Well, it turns out the shiny new purple line had a truly stealthy public
launch on 29 November last year, of the Abbey Wood to Paddington section:

<https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/civils/crossrail-high-risk-security-breach-as-first-customer-rides-train-20-01-2022/>

On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:26:55 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>Well, it turns out the shiny new purple line had a truly stealthy public
>launch on 29 November last year, of the Abbey Wood to Paddington section:
>
><https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/civils/crossrail-high-risk-security-breach-
>as-first-customer-rides-train-20-01-2022/>
>

Its about time they opened up some of the central section, they've been
testing with trains for well over a year now and clearly its all working
even if some of the stations arn't ready.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:26:55 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well, it turns out the shiny new purple line had a truly stealthy public
>> launch on 29 November last year, of the Abbey Wood to Paddington section:
>>
>> <https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/civils/crossrail-high-risk-security-breach-
>> as-first-customer-rides-train-20-01-2022/>
>>
>
> Its about time they opened up some of the central section, they've been
> testing with trains for well over a year now and clearly its all working
> even if some of the stations arn't ready.
>
>

They still have to test an intensive service, and various simulated
emergencies requiring evacuations. But the public opening of that section
could be as early as March, if the tests go to plan.

On 20/01/2022 16:26, Recliner wrote:
> Well, it turns out the shiny new purple line had a truly stealthy public
> launch on 29 November last year, of the Abbey Wood to Paddington section:
>
> <https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/civils/crossrail-high-risk-security-breach-as-first-customer-rides-train-20-01-2022/>
>

I remember before they opened ELL that they would allow individual
passers by to view the stations if they asked.

I would ask if they planned to do that at some of the Crossrail
stations, but this might be difficult as almost all the new ones are in
central London.

I did visit Canary Wharf station in 2017 on its open day, however.

Anyway, let me be certain that I understand the tentative timeline for
openings and connections.

March 2022 -- Opening of the core between Liverpool Street and Paddington.

2023 -- Connection of the western and eastern branches of with the core
and opening of Whitechapel station.

I am not clear, however, when the branch line to Abbey Wood is due to open.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 20/01/2022 16:26, Recliner wrote:
>> Well, it turns out the shiny new purple line had a truly stealthy public
>> launch on 29 November last year, of the Abbey Wood to Paddington section:
>>
>> <https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/civils/crossrail-high-risk-security-breach-as-first-customer-rides-train-20-01-2022/>
>>
>
> I remember before they opened ELL that they would allow individual
> passers by to view the stations if they asked.
>
> I would ask if they planned to do that at some of the Crossrail
> stations, but this might be difficult as almost all the new ones are in
> central London.
>
> I did visit Canary Wharf station in 2017 on its open day, however.
>
> Anyway, let me be certain that I understand the tentative timeline for
> openings and connections.
>
> March 2022 -- Opening of the core between Liverpool Street and Paddington.
>
> 2023 -- Connection of the western and eastern branches of with the core
> and opening of Whitechapel station.
>
> I am not clear, however, when the branch line to Abbey Wood is due to open.
>

The first section to open will be Abbey Wood to Paddington, possibly within
two months. Bond St station probably won't open till later, but all the
others should open, though they may not all be complete. I think the other
eastern link to Shenfield will open a few months later, with through
running between the eastern and western sections next year.

On 21/01/2022 01:03, Recliner wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 20/01/2022 16:26, Recliner wrote:
>>> Well, it turns out the shiny new purple line had a truly stealthy public
>>> launch on 29 November last year, of the Abbey Wood to Paddington section:
>>>
>>> <https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/civils/crossrail-high-risk-security-breach-as-first-customer-rides-train-20-01-2022/>
>>>
>>
>> I remember before they opened ELL that they would allow individual
>> passers by to view the stations if they asked.
>>
>> I would ask if they planned to do that at some of the Crossrail
>> stations, but this might be difficult as almost all the new ones are in
>> central London.
>>
>> I did visit Canary Wharf station in 2017 on its open day, however.
>>
>> Anyway, let me be certain that I understand the tentative timeline for
>> openings and connections.
>>
>> March 2022 -- Opening of the core between Liverpool Street and Paddington.
>>
>> 2023 -- Connection of the western and eastern branches of with the core
>> and opening of Whitechapel station.
>>
>> I am not clear, however, when the branch line to Abbey Wood is due to open.
>>
>
> The first section to open will be Abbey Wood to Paddington, possibly within
> two months. Bond St station probably won't open till later, but all the
> others should open, though they may not all be complete. I think the other
> eastern link to Shenfield will open a few months later, with through
> running between the eastern and western sections next year.

Thanks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498

On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498

The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
on a tentative opening day?

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>
> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
> on a tentative opening day?
>

As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>
>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>> on a tentative opening day?
>>
>
>As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.

The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH continues
to any great extent beyond covid.

One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the underground?

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>
>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>
>>
>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>
> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH continues
> to any great extent beyond covid.
>
> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the underground?

It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite the name,
it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level as LU, LO
and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will see roundels for each of
them.

On 26/01/2022 10:10, Recliner wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>
>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>
>>>
>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>
>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH continues
>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>
>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the und erground?
>
> It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite the name,
> it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level as LU, LO
> and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will see roundels for each of
> them.
>
Does that mean National Rail tickets with a Maltese cross or Travelcards
will not be valid?

In message <ssr6lr$ol0$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:10:03 on Wed, 26 Jan
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>
>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>
>>>
>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>
>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH
>>continues
>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>
>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the underground?
>
>It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite the name,
>it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level as LU, LO
>and the DLR.

Perhaps even more like Thameslink. Or Emirates Air.Line (is that where
you go to pump the tyres on your 777?)

>At stations like Stratford, you will see roundels for each of them.

I do love it when they have roundels like:
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dhm2h_7XcAADJqf.jpg> I picked one with
graffiti deliberately.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:15:25 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <ssr6lr$ol0$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:10:03 on Wed, 26 Jan
>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>>
>>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>>
>>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH
>>>continues
>>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>>
>>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the underground?
>>
>>It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite the name,
>>it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level as LU, LO
>>and the DLR.
>
>Perhaps even more like Thameslink.

No, not at all like Thameslink.

> Or Emirates Air.Line (is that where
>you go to pump the tyres on your 777?)

That £36m sponsorship deal is coming to an end. It looks like the new sponsor (if TfL can find one) will be able to
completely revamp it.

I wonder whose brand will soon adorn it (and Tube maps)? Apparently it can't be in "categories including tobacco, arms
and food/drink that promotes foodstuffs containing high fat, salt and sugar". So, not the Galaxy line then!

<https://www.thedrum.com/news/2021/12/07/tfl-sponsorship-boss-talks-up-cable-car-potential-36m-emirates-deal-ends>

In message <rle2vg5s6atohc45p177s71i05h942l9qr@4ax.com>, at 12:21:53 on
Wed, 26 Jan 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:15:25 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <ssr6lr$ol0$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:10:03 on Wed, 26 Jan
>>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>>>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>>>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>>>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>>>
>>>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH
>>>>continues
>>>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>>>
>>>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the
>>>>underground?
>>>
>>>It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite the name,
>>>it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level as LU, LO
>>>and the DLR.
>>
>>Perhaps even more like Thameslink.
>
>No, not at all like Thameslink.

Why not, it has a separate name (even if no roundels) and parts through
the middle of London and out either end. The "either end" being lines
with other services, and predating the core [in its current form].
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:38:48 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <rle2vg5s6atohc45p177s71i05h942l9qr@4ax.com>, at 12:21:53 on
>Wed, 26 Jan 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:15:25 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <ssr6lr$ol0$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:10:03 on Wed, 26 Jan
>>>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>>>>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>>>>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>>>>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>>>>
>>>>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH
>>>>>continues
>>>>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>>>>
>>>>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the
>>>>>underground?
>>>>
>>>>It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite the name,
>>>>it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level as LU, LO
>>>>and the DLR.
>>>
>>>Perhaps even more like Thameslink.
>>
>>No, not at all like Thameslink.
>
>Why not, it has a separate name (even if no roundels) and parts through
>the middle of London and out either end. The "either end" being lines
>with other services, and predating the core [in its current form].

The Liz Line is a distinct, branded network, Thameslink isn't. TL sprawls all over the Southern network, with many
destinations, unlike Crossrair, which mainly has segregated track and platforms, even on NR sections.

On 26/01/2022 10:10, Recliner wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>
>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>
>>>
>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>
>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH continues
>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>
>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the underground?
>
> It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite the name,
> it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level as LU, LO
> and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will see roundels for each of
> them.
>
More like RER, IMHO.

On 2022-01-26 09:58:55 +0000, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com said:

> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>
>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>
>>
>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>
> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH continues
> to any great extent beyond covid.
>
> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the underground?

In terms of ticketing, it is part of the National Rail network. It is
a concession let by TfL in the same way that London Overground is, but
the two are separate concessions.

Robin

On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 13:14:24 +0000
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:38:48 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>Why not, it has a separate name (even if no roundels) and parts through
>>the middle of London and out either end. The "either end" being lines
>>with other services, and predating the core [in its current form].
>
>The Liz Line is a distinct, branded network, Thameslink isn't. TL sprawls all
>over the Southern network, with many

You could argue crossrail sprawls over the GW and eastern region. The only
parts exclusive to it are the central tunnels and abbey wood. How is that
different to thameslink?

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 26/01/2022 10:10, Recliner wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>>
>>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>>
>>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH continues
>>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>>
>>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the underground?
>>
>> It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite the name,
>> it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level as LU, LO
>> and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will see roundels for each of
>> them.
>>
> More like RER, IMHO.
>

Yes, it's similar to the RER.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 13:14:24 +0000
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:38:48 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Why not, it has a separate name (even if no roundels) and parts through
>>> the middle of London and out either end. The "either end" being lines
>>> with other services, and predating the core [in its current form].
>>
>> The Liz Line is a distinct, branded network, Thameslink isn't. TL sprawls all
>> over the Southern network, with many
>
> You could argue crossrail sprawls over the GW and eastern region. The only
> parts exclusive to it are the central tunnels and abbey wood. How is that
> different to thameslink?
>
>

Have you actually seen a Thameslink route map? I assume not.
<http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/ThamesLink%20Network%20Map%20-%20Joe%20Andrews.jpg>

On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 16:26:16 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 13:14:24 +0000
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:38:48 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>> Why not, it has a separate name (even if no roundels) and parts through
>>>> the middle of London and out either end. The "either end" being lines
>>>> with other services, and predating the core [in its current form].
>>>
>>> The Liz Line is a distinct, branded network, Thameslink isn't. TL sprawls
>all
>>> over the Southern network, with many
>>
>> You could argue crossrail sprawls over the GW and eastern region. The only
>> parts exclusive to it are the central tunnels and abbey wood. How is that
>> different to thameslink?
>>
>>
>
>Have you actually seen a Thameslink route map? I assume not.
><http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/ThamesLink%20Network%20Map%2
>0-%20Joe%20Andrews.jpg>

So? How does that disprove my point? Most of crossrail runs on pre-existing
lines , its a collection of routes, not a system.

On 2022-01-26 10:10:03 +0000, Recliner said:

> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>
>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>
>>>
>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>
>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH continues
>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>
>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the underground?
>
> It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite the name,
> it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level as LU, LO
> and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will see roundels for each of
> them.

In terms of branding, it is its own entity.

In terms of ticketing and operating regime, it is regarded as part of
the National Rail network in the same way that London Overground and
Thameslink are.

In terms of how the operations of services are provided, it is a
concession let by the devolved London Assembly by TfL. This puts it on
the same basis as London Overground and the DLR, and also TfW Rail and
Scotrail (let by their respective devolved authorities), but it is let
as its own concession, separate from either the DLR or Overground.
(Unlike these, Thameslink is a conventional TOC, under the control of
the DfT.)

In terms of infrastructure ownership, the infrastrucutre between Old
Oak Common in the west and Abby Wood and Stratford in the East are
owned by Crossrail Ltd, owned by TfL (in the same way that the DLR is
owned by TfL). The other tracks, to Shenfield, and to Reading, are
owned by Network Rail, and the Heathrow Airport branch is woned by
Heathrow Airport.

In terms of rolling stock, the class 345s are owned directly by TfL in
the same way as tube and DLR trains, not owned and leased by a ROSCO.

Hope that clears it up a little.

Robin

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-01-26 10:10:03 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>>
>>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate exactly when
>>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more in the know
>>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to successfully
>>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>>
>>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now if WFH continues
>>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>>
>>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of the underground?
>>
>> It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite the name,
>> it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level as LU, LO
>> and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will see roundels for each of
>> them.
>
> In terms of branding, it is its own entity.
>
> In terms of ticketing and operating regime, it is regarded as part of
> the National Rail network in the same way that London Overground and
> Thameslink are.
>
> In terms of how the operations of services are provided, it is a
> concession let by the devolved London Assembly by TfL. This puts it on
> the same basis as London Overground and the DLR, and also TfW Rail and
> Scotrail (let by their respective devolved authorities), but it is let
> as its own concession, separate from either the DLR or Overground.
> (Unlike these, Thameslink is a conventional TOC, under the control of
> the DfT.)

Yes, and it's not even a TOC in its own right, and is currently just a part
of GTR.

>
> In terms of infrastructure ownership, the infrastrucutre between Old
> Oak Common in the west and Abby Wood and Stratford in the East are
> owned by Crossrail Ltd, owned by TfL (in the same way that the DLR is
> owned by TfL). The other tracks, to Shenfield, and to Reading, are
> owned by Network Rail, and the Heathrow Airport branch is woned by
> Heathrow Airport.

Even on the NR-owned sections, the Elizabeth line trains often have
dedicated platforms, unlike Thameslink.

>
> In terms of rolling stock, the class 345s are owned directly by TfL in
> the same way as tube and DLR trains, not owned and leased by a ROSCO.

Not any more.

<https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2019/03/transport-for-london-completes-sale-of-class-345-trains.html>

In message <ssrsn8$rkn$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:16 on Wed, 26 Jan
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 13:14:24 +0000
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:38:48 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>>>> Why not, it has a separate name (even if no roundels) and parts through
>>>> the middle of London and out either end. The "either end" being lines
>>>> with other services, and predating the core [in its current form].
>>>
>>> The Liz Line is a distinct, branded network, Thameslink isn't. TL
>>>sprawls all over the Southern network, with many
>>
>> You could argue crossrail sprawls over the GW and eastern region. The only
>> parts exclusive to it are the central tunnels and abbey wood. How is that
>> different to thameslink?
>
>Have you actually seen a Thameslink route map? I assume not.
><http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/ThamesLink%20Network%
>20Map%20-%20Joe%20Andrews.jpg>

It's grown a lot recently. For a long time it was just Bedford to
Brighton, plus the Sutton Loop.
--
Roland Perry