On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 09:12:14 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <st3ojc$o12$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:05:00 on Sat, 29 Jan
>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Those would require the intermediate stations to be completely fitted
>>> out, but what is about them which isn't fitted out and thus causing the
>>> delay?
>>
>>That's only one station now. The rest have been handed over.
>
>I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>if the shops there are go-to destination any more.

I was down in oxford street last month and it was heaving so don't believe
the whole 28 Days Later guff the media loves to put out about city centres.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 01:32:20 +0000
"hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Besides Crossrail coming on stream soon, another project that is decades
>behind schedule and well, well over budget is New York's East Side Access.
>
>This project gives the Long Island Rail Road direct access to Grand
>Central Terminal, via Sunnyside and the 63rd Street Tunnel's lower level.
>
>Testing has already begun and it is tentatively due to open later this year.
>
>Penn Station is on the west side of Manhattan, and so those commuters
>from Long Island who work closer to the east side have to get on the New
>York City Subway or walk a longer distance.
>
>It is possible for those working on the east to get an LIRR train to
>Atlantic Terminal, but that is in Brooklyn and requires an even longer
>subway trip. (It is useful, however, for those working in Lower Manhattan.)
>
>Some LIRR trains run into Long Island City, on the Lower Montauk Branch,
>where you have to transfer to the Hunters Point Avenue station, but
>service at the LIRR station is rather limited.

Just out of interest, is the LIRR considered a metro system or a main line
railway?

On 2022-01-31 06:39:16 +0000, Roland Perry said:

> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>
>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it basically
>>>> serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would think that not having a
>>>> station there would be advantageous.
>>>
>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>
>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and Stratford/Canary
>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>
> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.

The point of crossrail is to spread out where people coming into London
from the suburbs chagne onto the tube. Taking out Bond St removes the
ability to connect with the Jubilee line, which is important for both
releiving the Central line of passengers from the Stanmore direction
heading for the city, and also for passengers from the GW direction
heading for Westminster and Southwark. For the later, the Bakerloo via
Oxford Circus would be an option, but giving people the choice will
spread the load.

Robin

Am 31.01.2022 um 08:18 schrieb Tweed:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it basically
>>>>> serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would think that not having a
>>>>> station there would be advantageous.
>>>>
>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>
>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and Stratford/Canary
>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>
>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
>> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
>> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>
> You need frequent stops in the central core otherwise you won’t get the
> desired numbers of passengers using it. Have a look at the Munich S-Bahn
> core. The tunnel through the middle of the city has very closely spaced
> stations.
>
But the seocnd Munich Tunnel currently being built has a lot fewer stops.

In message <st82g0$ij7$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:18:24 on Mon, 31 Jan
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>basically serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would
>>>>>think that not having a station there would be advantageous.
>>>>
>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>
>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and Stratford/Canary
>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>
>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
>> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
>> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>
>You need frequent stops in the central core otherwise you won’t get the
>desired numbers of passengers using it. Have a look at the Munich S-Bahn
>core. The tunnel through the middle of the city has very closely spaced
>stations.

That rather depends what one thinks the purpose of the line is. If it's
to get people in one hop from Docklands to Heathrow (or even Maidenhead
to Romford) then stops in the core are more of a hindrance.

And doesn't each station have an exit each end anyway, and is therefore
almost two-in-one.

Random anecdote: I once had a meeting with someone at Didcot, who
commuted there daily from Romford (I forget how the subject cropped up,
but possibly they previously worked at QM Uni in Mile End Road), so
Crossrail would have been a significant improvement.

I'm not so sure why Didcot is unattractive, but another person I knew,
working at the same site, used to commute from just on the Welsh side of
the Bristol Channel.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <st82g0$ij7$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:18:24 on Mon, 31 Jan
> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>> basically serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would
>>>>>> think that not having a station there would be advantageous.
>>>>>
>>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>>
>>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and Stratford/Canary
>>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>>
>>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
>>> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
>>> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>>
>> You need frequent stops in the central core otherwise you won’t get the
>> desired numbers of passengers using it. Have a look at the Munich S-Bahn
>> core. The tunnel through the middle of the city has very closely spaced
>> stations.
>
> That rather depends what one thinks the purpose of the line is. If it's
> to get people in one hop from Docklands to Heathrow (or even Maidenhead
> to Romford) then stops in the core are more of a hindrance.
>

As you well know, providing through services from the east to the west is
just one of its multiple roles. One of its other major roles is to relieve
the Central line, and that requires multiple stops in central London. It
also needs to connect with north-south Tube lines.

> And doesn't each station have an exit each end anyway, and is therefore
> almost two-in-one.
>
> Random anecdote: I once had a meeting with someone at Didcot, who
> commuted there daily from Romford (I forget how the subject cropped up,
> but possibly they previously worked at QM Uni in Mile End Road), so
> Crossrail would have been a significant improvement.
>
> I'm not so sure why Didcot is unattractive, but another person I knew,
> working at the same site, used to commute from just on the Welsh side of
> the Bristol Channel.

In message <st8ftg$tdp$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:28 on Mon, 31 Jan
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <st82g0$ij7$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:18:24 on Mon, 31 Jan
>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>>>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>>> basically serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would
>>>>>>> think that not having a station there would be advantageous.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and
>>>>>Stratford/Canary
>>>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>>>
>>>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
>>>> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
>>>> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>>>
>>> You need frequent stops in the central core otherwise you won’t get the
>>> desired numbers of passengers using it. Have a look at the Munich S-Bahn
>>> core. The tunnel through the middle of the city has very closely spaced
>>> stations.
>>
>> That rather depends what one thinks the purpose of the line is. If it's
>> to get people in one hop from Docklands to Heathrow (or even Maidenhead
>> to Romford) then stops in the core are more of a hindrance.
>
>As you well know, providing through services from the east to the west is
>just one of its multiple roles. One of its other major roles is to relieve
>the Central line, and that requires multiple stops in central London.

The relief of the Central Line is mainly for interchanges at Liverpool
St to/from GEML. I doubt they are expecting to abstract many passengers
between Chancery Lane, Holborn and Queensway, let alone further west
like Shepherds Bush.

>It also needs to connect with north-south Tube lines.

Which it could do at Oxford Circus. Currently it doesn't interchange
with the Piccadilly, Victoria, or Northern City-branch, so choose your
poison!

--
Roland Perry

In message <st8ddp$8jt$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:24:57 on Mon, 31 Jan
2022, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>On 2022-01-31 06:39:16 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>
>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's
>>>>>>not as
>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>basically
>>>>> serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would think that not
>>>>>having a
>>>>> station there would be advantageous.
>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and
>>>Stratford/Canary
>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in
>>the middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St
>>and TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>
>The point of crossrail is to spread out where people coming into London
>from the suburbs chagne onto the tube. Taking out Bond St removes the
>ability to connect with the Jubilee line, which is important for both
>releiving the Central line of passengers from the Stanmore direction
>heading for the city, and also for passengers from the GW direction
>heading for Westminster and Southwark. For the later, the Bakerloo via
>Oxford Circus would be an option, but giving people the choice will
>spread the load.

You've picked a few of the many flows, but I contend that picking
different ones via Oxford Circus could be more beneficial.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <st8ftg$tdp$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:28 on Mon, 31 Jan
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <st82g0$ij7$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:18:24 on Mon, 31 Jan
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>>>>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>>>> basically serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would
>>>>>>>> think that not having a station there would be advantageous.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and
>>>>>> Stratford/Canary
>>>>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>>>>
>>>>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
>>>>> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
>>>>> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>>>>
>>>> You need frequent stops in the central core otherwise you won’t get the
>>>> desired numbers of passengers using it. Have a look at the Munich S-Bahn
>>>> core. The tunnel through the middle of the city has very closely spaced
>>>> stations.
>>>
>>> That rather depends what one thinks the purpose of the line is. If it's
>>> to get people in one hop from Docklands to Heathrow (or even Maidenhead
>>> to Romford) then stops in the core are more of a hindrance.
>>
>> As you well know, providing through services from the east to the west is
>> just one of its multiple roles. One of its other major roles is to relieve
>> the Central line, and that requires multiple stops in central London.
>
> The relief of the Central Line is mainly for interchanges at Liverpool
> St to/from GEML. I doubt they are expecting to abstract many passengers
> between Chancery Lane, Holborn and Queensway, let alone further west
> like Shepherds Bush.

It serves many of the same areas in central London, with some of the same
stations, as the Central Line. People heading to those area from east or
west will switch to the EL, leaving more space on the CL for others.

>
>> It also needs to connect with north-south Tube lines.
>
> Which it could do at Oxford Circus. Currently it doesn't interchange
> with the Piccadilly, Victoria, or Northern City-branch, so choose your
> poison!
>

It obviously interchanges with both Northern Line branches.

Bond St provides the link to the Piccadilly and Victoria lines. It also,
via the JL, provides a good western link to the Met, in addition to the
Farringdon connection.

<https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/crossrail-confirms-bond-street-will-miss-the-elizabeth-line-opening-51018/>

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <st8ddp$8jt$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:24:57 on Mon, 31 Jan
> 2022, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>> On 2022-01-31 06:39:16 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>>
>>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's
>>>>>>> not as
>>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>> basically
>>>>>> serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would think that not
>>>>>> having a
>>>>>> station there would be advantageous.
>>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and
>>>> Stratford/Canary
>>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in
>>> the middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St
>>> and TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>>
>> The point of crossrail is to spread out where people coming into London
>> from the suburbs chagne onto the tube. Taking out Bond St removes the
>> ability to connect with the Jubilee line, which is important for both
>> releiving the Central line of passengers from the Stanmore direction
>> heading for the city, and also for passengers from the GW direction
>> heading for Westminster and Southwark. For the later, the Bakerloo via
>> Oxford Circus would be an option, but giving people the choice will
>> spread the load.
>
> You've picked a few of the many flows, but I contend that picking
> different ones via Oxford Circus could be more beneficial.

Strangely enough, even without your unique understanding of London
commuting and novel definition of central London, the Crossrail planners
actually did consider connecting to Oxford Circus:

Bond Street will not be a cathedral station but deserves a mention because
it will become Oxford Circus' 'second station by default'.

When Crossrail was first being planned, there were plans for it to stop at
Oxford Circus, one of the busiest stations on the Tube network. Planners
decided against it because Oxford Circus station is already too busy and
would not be able to handle the extra passengers without massive work,
which would be difficult and costly to build because of the amount of
historic and listed buildings that surround the station.

Instead, the Elizabeth line station will have an exit onto Hanover Square,
with a giant ticket hall for passengers.

Those astute shoppers and Soho-goers will know that Hanover Square is right
behind Oxford Circus (in the side turning between the Microsoft and Apple
stores).

This will help decongest that station, where 16 people were seriously
injured in a stampede that happened there in 2017.

It also will provide the quickest link between the Victoria line and
Elizabeth line trains.

<https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/crossrail-giant-new-cathedral-stations-21775892>

On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 21:51:50 +0000, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 13:24:07 +0000, Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>>On 29/01/2022 12:52, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:52:25 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <st36ib$kkq$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:57:15 on Sat, 29 Jan
>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 10:12:16 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Not sure why that matters. If I get off a Thameslink train at
>>>>>>>>> Farringdon, I probably haven't been trough any before, either.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Presumably we expect a TfL gateline at Paddington unless there's an
>>>>>>>>> "airside" walking route from every platform, which seems unlikely.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The EL will have its own gateline at Paddington, plus there's a new
>>>>>>>> underground passageway to the Bakerloo line (presumably with pink
>>>>>>>> validators).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What could possibly go wrong. No doubt many PAYG users will forget to tap
>>>>>>> and get ripped off by TfL for the max fare. One can only hope there's some
>>>>>>> joined up thinking and if someone taps in at Reading then they can hop onto
>>>>>>> a tube in central london and exit at a tube station elsewhere
>>>>>>> without having to
>>>>>>> do TfLs job for it by telling them the route they took.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, that should be OK, but what happens if a GWR passenger from, say,
>>>>>> Oxford changes to the EL at Reading and leaves at Tottenham Court Road?
>>>>>> There's no gateline to pass through at Reading, and it's easy to miss the
>>>>>> pink validators.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not living in London I’m not overly familiar with the pink validators. Is
>>>>> there any downside to tapping my credit card on one whenever I see one,
>>>>> assuming that I am making an intentional journey on the system?
>>>>
>>>> As far as I'm aware the Pink validators are to leave an audit trail of
>>>> having travelled across London *not* through the central zone(s) and
>>>> thus potentially get a cheaper PAYG fare.
>>>
>>> Yes, that's the idea, but I can think of at least one case where using a validator would increase the fare you pay.
>>
>All day or part of the day?

All day.

>
>>Is using the validator mandatory in such cases, or just a stupidity tax?
>>
>AFAIAA using the pink validators isn't mandatory anywhere as the
>underlying general intent is, where appropriate, to discount the
>default/maximum fare; i.e. the penalty is intended to be financial
>rather than criminal. There are routes with them (e.g. the WLL) where
>(off-peak at least) ignoring them either makes no difference or costs
>you more depending on the end points of your journey.

In message <st8k7o$n78$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:21:12 on Mon, 31 Jan
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

><https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/crossrail-confirms-bond-street-wil
>l-miss-the-elizabeth-line-opening-51018/>

I love these railway schedules.

"Bond Street had been running a whopping 18-months behind schedule two
years ago but had managed to catch up to being roughly 3-months
behind schedule now."

Given that the original schedule was 2019.

They tried to pull this trick at Cambridge North, claiming it opened
"ahead of schedule", but that was the schedule that had been
significantly postponed three times already.
--
Roland Perry

On 31/01/2022 10:12, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 01:32:20 +0000
> "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Besides Crossrail coming on stream soon, another project that is decades
>> behind schedule and well, well over budget is New York's East Side Access.
>>
>> This project gives the Long Island Rail Road direct access to Grand
>> Central Terminal, via Sunnyside and the 63rd Street Tunnel's lower level.
>>
>> Testing has already begun and it is tentatively due to open later this year.
>>
>> Penn Station is on the west side of Manhattan, and so those commuters
>>from Long Island who work closer to the east side have to get on the New
>> York City Subway or walk a longer distance.
>>
>> It is possible for those working on the east to get an LIRR train to
>> Atlantic Terminal, but that is in Brooklyn and requires an even longer
>> subway trip. (It is useful, however, for those working in Lower Manhattan.)
>>
>> Some LIRR trains run into Long Island City, on the Lower Montauk Branch,
>> where you have to transfer to the Hunters Point Avenue station, but
>> service at the LIRR station is rather limited.
>
> Just out of interest, is the LIRR considered a metro system or a main line
> railway?
>

Commuter rail. Runs in all directions at all times.

On 31/01/2022 15:16, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 31/01/2022 10:12, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 01:32:20 +0000
>> "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Besides Crossrail coming on stream soon, another project that is decades
>>> behind schedule and well, well over budget is New York's East Side
>>> Access.
>>>
>>> This project gives the Long Island Rail Road direct access to Grand
>>> Central Terminal, via Sunnyside and the 63rd Street Tunnel's lower
>>> level.
>>>
>>> Testing has already begun and it is tentatively due to open later
>>> this year.
>>>
>>> Penn Station is on the west side of Manhattan, and so those commuters
>>> from Long Island who work closer to the east side have to get on the
>>> New York City Subway or walk a longer distance.
>>>
>>> It is possible for those working on the east to get an LIRR train to
>>> Atlantic Terminal, but that is in Brooklyn and requires an even longer
>>> subway trip. (It is useful, however, for those working in Lower
>>> Manhattan.)
>>>
>>> Some LIRR trains run into Long Island City, on the Lower Montauk Branch,
>>> where you have to transfer to the Hunters Point Avenue station, but
>>> service at the LIRR station is rather limited.
>>
>> Just out of interest, is the LIRR considered a metro system or a main
>> line
>> railway?
>>
>
> Commuter rail. Runs in all directions at all times.

It's also worth noting that Metro-North Railroad's proper name is
Metro-North Commuter Railroad, and that it simply trades under the
former -- just like Amtrak's proper name is the National Railroad
Passenger Corporation.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <st8k7o$n78$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:21:12 on Mon, 31 Jan
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/crossrail-confirms-bond-street-wil
>> l-miss-the-elizabeth-line-opening-51018/>
>
> I love these railway schedules.
>
> "Bond Street had been running a whopping 18-months behind schedule two
> years ago but had managed to catch up to being roughly 3-months
> behind schedule now."
>
> Given that the original schedule was 2019.
>
> They tried to pull this trick at Cambridge North, claiming it opened
> "ahead of schedule", but that was the schedule that had been
> significantly postponed three times already.

Yes, I think it was less of a case of Bond St catching up than the other
stations suffering their own delays.

On 31/01/2022 10:22, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <st82g0$ij7$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:18:24 on Mon, 31 Jan
> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's
>>>>>>> not as
>>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>> basically  serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would
>>>>>> think that not having a  station there would be advantageous.
>>>>>
>>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>>
>>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and
>>>> Stratford/Canary
>>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>>
>>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
>>> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
>>> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>>
>> You need frequent stops in the central core otherwise you won’t get the
>> desired numbers of passengers using it. Have a look at the Munich S-Bahn
>> core. The tunnel through the middle of the city has very closely spaced
>> stations.
>
> That rather depends what one thinks the purpose of the line is. If it's
> to get people in one hop from Docklands to Heathrow (or even Maidenhead
> to Romford) then stops in the core are more of a hindrance.
>
> And doesn't each station have an exit each end anyway, and is therefore
> almost two-in-one.
>
> Random anecdote: I once had a meeting with someone at Didcot, who
> commuted there daily from Romford (I forget how the subject cropped up,
> but possibly they previously worked at QM Uni in Mile End Road), so
> Crossrail would have been a significant improvement.
>
> I'm not so sure why Didcot is unattractive, but another person I knew,
> working at the same site, used to commute from just on the Welsh side of
> the Bristol Channel.

Apparently the Oxford Mail reckons it is one of the worst places to live
in England:
<https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18987575.didcot-named-one-worst-places-live-england/>

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 2022-01-31 11:42:21 +0000, Roland Perry said:

> In message <st8ftg$tdp$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:28 on Mon, 31 Jan
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <st82g0$ij7$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:18:24 on Mon, 31 Jan
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>>>>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>>>> basically serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would
>>>>>>>> think that not having a station there would be advantageous.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and Stratford/Canary
>>>>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>>>>
>>>>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
>>>>> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
>>>>> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>>>>
>>>> You need frequent stops in the central core otherwise you won’t get the
>>>> desired numbers of passengers using it. Have a look at the Munich S-Bahn
>>>> core. The tunnel through the middle of the city has very closely spaced
>>>> stations.
>>>
>>> That rather depends what one thinks the purpose of the line is. If it's
>>> to get people in one hop from Docklands to Heathrow (or even Maidenhead
>>> to Romford) then stops in the core are more of a hindrance.
>>
>> As you well know, providing through services from the east to the west is
>> just one of its multiple roles. One of its other major roles is to relieve
>> the Central line, and that requires multiple stops in central London.
>
> The relief of the Central Line is mainly for interchanges at Liverpool
> St to/from GEML. I doubt they are expecting to abstract many passengers
> between Chancery Lane, Holborn and Queensway, let alone further west
> like Shepherds Bush.

A lot of stations have overlapping catchment areas based on how close
they are, and thre are likely people who will chose to use a nearby
Crossrail station rather than a Central line station for their journey
depending on the actual start/end points. Looking at Crossrail
stations that have the potential to abstract journeys from the Central
line, I'd suggest the following cases West Ealing (Ealing Broadway),
Ealing Broadway (both lines), Acton Mainline (North Acton), Paddington
(Lancaster Gate), Bond Street, Tottenham Court Road (both lines),
Farrigndon (Chancery Lane), Liverpool St (both), Whitechappel (Bethnal
Green), Stratford (both), Maryland (Leyton), Ilford (Gants Hill), Seven
Kings (Newbury Park).

Robin

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-01-31 11:42:21 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>
>> In message <st8ftg$tdp$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:28 on Mon, 31 Jan
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <st82g0$ij7$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:18:24 on Mon, 31 Jan
>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>>>>>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>>>>> basically serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would
>>>>>>>>> think that not having a station there would be advantageous.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and Stratford/Canary
>>>>>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
>>>>>> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
>>>>>> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>>>>>
>>>>> You need frequent stops in the central core otherwise you won’t get the
>>>>> desired numbers of passengers using it. Have a look at the Munich S-Bahn
>>>>> core. The tunnel through the middle of the city has very closely spaced
>>>>> stations.
>>>>
>>>> That rather depends what one thinks the purpose of the line is. If it's
>>>> to get people in one hop from Docklands to Heathrow (or even Maidenhead
>>>> to Romford) then stops in the core are more of a hindrance.
>>>
>>> As you well know, providing through services from the east to the west is
>>> just one of its multiple roles. One of its other major roles is to relieve
>>> the Central line, and that requires multiple stops in central London.
>>
>> The relief of the Central Line is mainly for interchanges at Liverpool
>> St to/from GEML. I doubt they are expecting to abstract many passengers
>> between Chancery Lane, Holborn and Queensway, let alone further west
>> like Shepherds Bush.
>
> A lot of stations have overlapping catchment areas based on how close
> they are, and thre are likely people who will chose to use a nearby
> Crossrail station rather than a Central line station for their journey
> depending on the actual start/end points. Looking at Crossrail
> stations that have the potential to abstract journeys from the Central
> line, I'd suggest the following cases West Ealing (Ealing Broadway),

West Ealing?

> Ealing Broadway (both lines), Acton Mainline (North Acton), Paddington
> (Lancaster Gate), Bond Street,

The new Bond St EL station entrance in Hanover Square will also divert CL
pax from Oxford Circus.

> Tottenham Court Road (both lines),
> Farringdon (Chancery Lane), Liverpool St (both), Whitechapel (Bethnal
> Green), Stratford (both), Maryland (Leyton), Ilford (Gants Hill), Seven
> Kings (Newbury Park).
>
>

On 2022-01-31 17:03:53 +0000, Recliner said:

> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-01-31 11:42:21 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>>
>>> In message <st8ftg$tdp$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:28 on Mon, 31 Jan
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <st82g0$ij7$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:18:24 on Mon, 31 Jan
>>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>>>>>>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>>>>>> basically serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would
>>>>>>>>>> think that not having a station there would be advantageous.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and Stratford/Canary
>>>>>>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
>>>>>>> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
>>>>>>> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You need frequent stops in the central core otherwise you won’t get the
>>>>>> desired numbers of passengers using it. Have a look at the Munich S-Bahn
>>>>>> core. The tunnel through the middle of the city has very closely spaced
>>>>>> stations.
>>>>>
>>>>> That rather depends what one thinks the purpose of the line is. If it's
>>>>> to get people in one hop from Docklands to Heathrow (or even Maidenhead
>>>>> to Romford) then stops in the core are more of a hindrance.
>>>>
>>>> As you well know, providing through services from the east to the west is
>>>> just one of its multiple roles. One of its other major roles is to relieve
>>>> the Central line, and that requires multiple stops in central London.
>>>
>>> The relief of the Central Line is mainly for interchanges at Liverpool
>>> St to/from GEML. I doubt they are expecting to abstract many passengers
>>> between Chancery Lane, Holborn and Queensway, let alone further west
>>> like Shepherds Bush.
>>
>> A lot of stations have overlapping catchment areas based on how close
>> they are, and thre are likely people who will chose to use a nearby
>> Crossrail station rather than a Central line station for their journey
>> depending on the actual start/end points. Looking at Crossrail
>> stations that have the potential to abstract journeys from the Central
>> line, I'd suggest the following cases West Ealing (Ealing Broadway),
>
> West Ealing?

West Ealing is currently served by the 4 tph ex-Heathrow Connect route,
plus the Greenford shuttle. Neither of those offers a useful service
places in the City or the West End, as they all involve changing
trains. Ealing Broadway has a 9 tph service on the Central line and
offers a one seat ride. The distance between the stations is less than
a mile. I expect a lot of people who are closer to West Ealing than
Ealing Broadway today take the longer walk to Broadway for the better
service, but when Crossrail opens, West Ealing becomes a much more
useful proposition.

Robin

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-01-31 17:03:53 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-01-31 11:42:21 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>>>
>>>> In message <st8ftg$tdp$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:28 on Mon, 31 Jan
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <st82g0$ij7$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:18:24 on Mon, 31 Jan
>>>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>>>>>>>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>>>>>>> basically serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would
>>>>>>>>>>> think that not having a station there would be advantageous.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and Stratford/Canary
>>>>>>>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
>>>>>>>> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
>>>>>>>> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You need frequent stops in the central core otherwise you won’t get the
>>>>>>> desired numbers of passengers using it. Have a look at the Munich S-Bahn
>>>>>>> core. The tunnel through the middle of the city has very closely spaced
>>>>>>> stations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That rather depends what one thinks the purpose of the line is. If it's
>>>>>> to get people in one hop from Docklands to Heathrow (or even Maidenhead
>>>>>> to Romford) then stops in the core are more of a hindrance.
>>>>>
>>>>> As you well know, providing through services from the east to the west is
>>>>> just one of its multiple roles. One of its other major roles is to relieve
>>>>> the Central line, and that requires multiple stops in central London.
>>>>
>>>> The relief of the Central Line is mainly for interchanges at Liverpool
>>>> St to/from GEML. I doubt they are expecting to abstract many passengers
>>>> between Chancery Lane, Holborn and Queensway, let alone further west
>>>> like Shepherds Bush.
>>>
>>> A lot of stations have overlapping catchment areas based on how close
>>> they are, and thre are likely people who will chose to use a nearby
>>> Crossrail station rather than a Central line station for their journey
>>> depending on the actual start/end points. Looking at Crossrail
>>> stations that have the potential to abstract journeys from the Central
>>> line, I'd suggest the following cases West Ealing (Ealing Broadway),
>>
>> West Ealing?
>
> West Ealing is currently served by the 4 tph ex-Heathrow Connect route,
> plus the Greenford shuttle. Neither of those offers a useful service
> places in the City or the West End, as they all involve changing
> trains. Ealing Broadway has a 9 tph service on the Central line and
> offers a one seat ride. The distance between the stations is less than
> a mile. I expect a lot of people who are closer to West Ealing than
> Ealing Broadway today take the longer walk to Broadway for the better
> service, but when Crossrail opens, West Ealing becomes a much more
> useful proposition.

OK, thanks for the explanation.

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-01-31 17:03:53 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-01-31 11:42:21 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>>>
>>>> In message <st8ftg$tdp$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:28 on Mon, 31 Jan
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <st82g0$ij7$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:18:24 on Mon, 31 Jan
>>>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <st6ede$8ku$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:29:34 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <st614b$2d0$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:52 on Sun, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if they regret having a station at Bond St at all? It's not as
>>>>>>>>>>>> if the shops there are go-to destination any more.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's one of the two main city centre stations, and one end of it
>>>>>>>>>>> basically serves Oxford Circus. I'm not sure why anyone would
>>>>>>>>>>> think that not having a station there would be advantageous.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Saving a few billion quid, for starters.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Might as well cut out all the stops between Paddington and Stratford/Canary
>>>>>>>>> Wharf then, save a few more?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You definitely need Farringdon for interchange, and one station in the
>>>>>>>> middle. Oxford Circus would be OK to substitute for both Bond St and
>>>>>>>> TCR. Suggesting scrapping the Liverpool St stop is simply bizarre.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You need frequent stops in the central core otherwise you won’t get the
>>>>>>> desired numbers of passengers using it. Have a look at the Munich S-Bahn
>>>>>>> core. The tunnel through the middle of the city has very closely spaced
>>>>>>> stations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That rather depends what one thinks the purpose of the line is. If it's
>>>>>> to get people in one hop from Docklands to Heathrow (or even Maidenhead
>>>>>> to Romford) then stops in the core are more of a hindrance.
>>>>>
>>>>> As you well know, providing through services from the east to the west is
>>>>> just one of its multiple roles. One of its other major roles is to relieve
>>>>> the Central line, and that requires multiple stops in central London.
>>>>
>>>> The relief of the Central Line is mainly for interchanges at Liverpool
>>>> St to/from GEML. I doubt they are expecting to abstract many passengers
>>>> between Chancery Lane, Holborn and Queensway, let alone further west
>>>> like Shepherds Bush.
>>>
>>> A lot of stations have overlapping catchment areas based on how close
>>> they are, and thre are likely people who will chose to use a nearby
>>> Crossrail station rather than a Central line station for their journey
>>> depending on the actual start/end points. Looking at Crossrail
>>> stations that have the potential to abstract journeys from the Central
>>> line, I'd suggest the following cases West Ealing (Ealing Broadway),
>>
>> West Ealing?
>
> West Ealing is currently served by the 4 tph ex-Heathrow Connect route,
> plus the Greenford shuttle. Neither of those offers a useful service
> places in the City or the West End, as they all involve changing
> trains. Ealing Broadway has a 9 tph service on the Central line and
> offers a one seat ride. The distance between the stations is less than
> a mile. I expect a lot of people who are closer to West Ealing than
> Ealing Broadway today take the longer walk to Broadway for the better
> service, but when Crossrail opens, West Ealing becomes a much more
> useful proposition.
>

It also occurs to me that many of the people who currently catch the
Greenford shuttle to join the Central line at Greenford for destinations in
central London might instead switch to joining Crossrail at West Ealing.

In message <st92uc$9b1$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:32:12 on Mon, 31 Jan
2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>> I'm not so sure why Didcot is unattractive, but another person I
>>knew, working at the same site, used to commute from just on the
>>Welsh side of the Bristol Channel.
>
>Apparently the Oxford Mail reckons it is one of the worst places to
>live in England:
><https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18987575.didcot-named-one-worst-place
>s-live-england/>

Interesting that Peterborough tops the list. And it has a good train
service to London!

Being crowd-sourced, perhaps what it's really measuring is a gap between
hope and experience. No-one from Peterborough would rate it worst, if
they'd previously lived in Luton (admittedly #7)

--
Roland Perry

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-01-31 17:03:53 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> A lot of stations have overlapping catchment areas based on how close
>>> they are, and thre are likely people who will chose to use a nearby
>>> Crossrail station rather than a Central line station for their journey
>>> depending on the actual start/end points. Looking at Crossrail
>>> stations that have the potential to abstract journeys from the Central
>>> line, I'd suggest the following cases West Ealing (Ealing Broadway),
>>
>> West Ealing?
>
> West Ealing is currently served by the 4 tph ex-Heathrow Connect route,
> plus the Greenford shuttle. Neither of those offers a useful service
> places in the City or the West End, as they all involve changing
> trains. Ealing Broadway has a 9 tph service on the Central line and
> offers a one seat ride. The distance between the stations is less than
> a mile. I expect a lot of people who are closer to West Ealing than
> Ealing Broadway today take the longer walk to Broadway for the better
> service, but when Crossrail opens, West Ealing becomes a much more
> useful proposition.
>

Will the Crossrail service there increase, or will it be the same 4tph but
now running through the centre?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 14:20:39 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-01-31 17:03:53 +0000, Recliner said:
>>
>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A lot of stations have overlapping catchment areas based on how close
>>>> they are, and thre are likely people who will chose to use a nearby
>>>> Crossrail station rather than a Central line station for their journey
>>>> depending on the actual start/end points. Looking at Crossrail
>>>> stations that have the potential to abstract journeys from the Central
>>>> line, I'd suggest the following cases West Ealing (Ealing Broadway),
>>>
>>> West Ealing?
>>
>> West Ealing is currently served by the 4 tph ex-Heathrow Connect route,
>> plus the Greenford shuttle. Neither of those offers a useful service
>> places in the City or the West End, as they all involve changing
>> trains. Ealing Broadway has a 9 tph service on the Central line and
>> offers a one seat ride. The distance between the stations is less than
>> a mile. I expect a lot of people who are closer to West Ealing than
>> Ealing Broadway today take the longer walk to Broadway for the better
>> service, but when Crossrail opens, West Ealing becomes a much more
>> useful proposition.
>>
>
>Will the Crossrail service there increase, or will it be the same 4tph but
>now running through the centre?

Obviously the dates, have slipped, but if the plans are otherwise little changed, West Ealing is supposed to get 10 tph
in the peaks.

<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2018/crossrail-timetable-for-success/>