On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21 Mar
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel /galley
>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>
>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>
>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>
>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>> different
>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>>>> western
>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>
>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>
>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>
>
> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at Dover)
> there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for the pax
> restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same galley staff
> etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is essentially the same.
>

IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
their jobs?

On 21/03/2022 13:47, Marland wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>
>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>
>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing different
>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to western
>> cruse ship pax).
>>
>>
>
> It has probably changed now due to increased security,different management
> ,etc but one of the perks of going on board some of cruise ships to do
> maintenance work while they were on turnaround
> was that you could go to one of the crews dining areas and get a free meal
> which I often did.
> You could always get a nice curry on P&O, and done so you could taste and
> eat it compared to those
> in some British Indian Restaurants which cater more for the Macho I want it
> as hot as molten Lava
> brigade.
>
>
> GH

I hear what you are saying, but very hot (spicy) curries also seem to
help with a cold, IME.

On 21/03/2022 13:57, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 21/03/2022 13:47, Marland wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>
>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>
>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>> different
>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>>> western
>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It has probably changed now due to increased security,different
>> management
>> ,etc  but one of the perks of going on board some of cruise ships to do
>> maintenance work while they were on turnaround
>> was that you could go to one of the crews dining areas and get a free
>> meal
>> which I often did.
>> You could always get a nice curry on P&O, and done so you could taste and
>> eat it compared to those
>> in some British Indian Restaurants which cater more for the Macho I
>> want it
>> as hot as molten Lava
>> brigade.
>
> Not at sea, but my first job was as a waiter in a West End restaurant.
> One of the perks being free meals. Most of the other waiters were
> Iberian and the food was a fairly bland affair. However the cooks were
> all Chinese so I used to eat with them, which they found highly amusing.
>

I wonder if they also appreciated that as I have found that to be the
case if I asked for a specific drink or dish in Korean restaurant.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 19:02:13 +0000, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
<hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21 Mar
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel /galley
>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>
>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>
>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>
>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>>> different
>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>>>>> western
>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>
>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>
>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at Dover)
>> there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for the pax
>> restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same galley staff
>> etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is essentially the same.
>>
>IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
>possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
>their jobs?

What if the aircrew food is contaminated and the passengers' is okay?
By your logic you would be better giving one diet to half the crew and
the other diet to the other half.

On 23/03/2022 19:02, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21 Mar
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>> /galley
>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>
>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>
>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>
>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>>> different
>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>>>>> western
>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>
>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>
>>
>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at Dover)
>> there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for the pax
>> restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same galley staff
>> etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is essentially the same.
>>
>
> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
> possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
> their jobs?

Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and book,
Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 23/03/2022 19:05, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 21/03/2022 13:57, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 21/03/2022 13:47, Marland wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>
>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>
>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>> different
>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>>>> western
>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> It has probably changed now due to increased security,different
>>> management
>>> ,etc  but one of the perks of going on board some of cruise ships to do
>>> maintenance work while they were on turnaround
>>> was that you could go to one of the crews dining areas and get a free
>>> meal
>>> which I often did.
>>> You could always get a nice curry on P&O, and done so you could taste
>>> and
>>> eat it compared to those
>>> in some British Indian Restaurants which cater more for the Macho I
>>> want it
>>> as hot as molten Lava
>>> brigade.
>>
>> Not at sea, but my first job was as a waiter in a West End restaurant.
>> One of the perks being free meals. Most of the other waiters were
>> Iberian and the food was a fairly bland affair. However the cooks were
>> all Chinese so I used to eat with them, which they found highly amusing.
>>
>
> I wonder if they also appreciated that as I have found that to be the
> case if I asked for a specific drink or dish in Korean restaurant.

I think they did, it was before Chinese takeaways really got going.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 23/03/2022 14:13, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t1f87j$l4c$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:44:20 on Wed, 23 Mar
> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 23/03/2022 12:54, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t1f0no$on3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:36:24 on Wed, 23 Mar
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> P&O claims it has saved 3,000 jobs and rescued the company
>
>>>  Those will be shore-based jobs, mainly?
>>
>> 900 from 3000 indicates 1/3rd seafarers and 2/3 shore staff, although
>> I find gthis proportion surprising.
>
> The people laid off are reportedly seafarers (to be replaced by newly
> drafted in cheap labour). If not shore staff, who are the others?

Errr, no idea what you are talking about....
My figures are self-explanatory.

--
Colin

On 23/03/2022 20:08, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 19:02, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21 Mar
>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>> /galley
>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>
>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes
>>>>>> to western
>>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at Dover)
>>> there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for the pax
>>> restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same galley staff
>>> etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is essentially the same.
>>>
>>
>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and
>> poisoning, possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely
>> performing their jobs?
>
> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and book,
> Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.
>

Don't forget "Airplane!", released in 1980.

On 23/03/2022 20:08, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 19:02, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21 Mar
>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>> /galley
>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>
>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes
>>>>>> to western
>>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at Dover)
>>> there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for the pax
>>> restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same galley staff
>>> etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is essentially the same.
>>>
>>
>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and
>> poisoning, possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely
>> performing their jobs?
>
> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and book,
> Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.
>

Does the food for crew undergo anymore rigorous examination than for
passengers?

On 23/03/2022 14:12, Tweed wrote:
> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 06:43:08 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22/03/2022 14:27, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t1ca2f$4uv$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:57:19 on Tue, 22 Mar
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t1a1jg$bf2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:20:32 o
>>>>>>>>>>> n Mon, 21 Mar 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They might be back-to-back with the public catering areas and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> served  by the  same crew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, with a British crew, that's the most likely situation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Messrooms on the main passenger deck?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Depends on the design. Some ships I have served on yes, others no. In
>>>>>>>>>>>> the "no" cases the crew messrooms are usually above the galley and food
>>>>>>>>>>>> is transferred through a lift so there will be one or two dedicated
>>>>>>>>>>>> crew servers out of a crew of potentially 100 or so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The ships we are discussing are the Dover-Calais ferries, if that helps
>>>>>>>>>>> narrow down their floor plans. And getting back to before this diversion
>>>>>>>>>>> about exactly where the crew eat, where on the ship are their sleeping
>>>>>>>>>>> quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've just had a quick scan back through the thread and I can't find any
>>>>>>>>>> such restriction of the discussion to specifically the Dover-Calais
>>>>>>>>>> route,
>>>>>>>>>> rather than any P&O car ferry route.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What other routes did the "800" work on? The Dover-Calais is the only
>>>>>>>>> one I've seen the media and government in anguish about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then you really haven't been paying attention. There's been a great fuss
>>>>>>>> in Norn Ironland because the Larne-Cairnryan route was shut. A ship on
>>>>>>>> the Hull-Rotterdam route pulled up the gangplanks and refused to allow
>>>>>>>> the "security" staff on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Much has been made about paying the staff next to nothing is legal because
>>>>>>> of the laws that cover foreign registered ship. P&O have, it appears,
>>>>>>> been cornered into their current action because others, notably Irish
>>>>>>> Ferries, got there first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there anything to stop UK government from passing a law preventing a
>>>>>>> foreign registered regular ferry service (and we can argue what constitutes
>>>>>>> a regular ferry service) from using a UK port unless the UK minimum wage is
>>>>>>> paid? Or if they couldn’t be prevented from using the port could they be
>>>>>>> prevented from discharging traffic by the denial of customs and immigration
>>>>>>> services?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We’ve prevented the race to the bottom by the introduction of the minimum
>>>>>>> wage, but ferries seem to have got around this by exploiting international
>>>>>>> maritime law.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How could international ferries be treated any differently to the many
>>>>>> other foreign-flagged, foreign-owned merchant marine vessels sailing on
>>>>>> international routes that visit the UK? We could, probably, have control
>>>>>> over ferries sailing between UK ports, but not those sailing to non-UK
>>>>>> ports.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Bilateral agreement between the governments of the ferry ports? A ferry by
>>>>> definition regularly trips between the two end points. Even if there is no
>>>>> bilateral agreement it doesn’t seem to be beyond the wit of legal drafting
>>>>> to define a ferry. Or take the pirate radio route and ban the sale of ferry
>>>>> tickets in the UK for any ferry crewed under the minimum wage.
>>>>
>>>> Presumably you'd ban the sale of all cruise line tickets in the UK on the
>>>> same basis?
>>>>
>>> No. Cruise ships call at many overseas ports. UK minimum wage legislation
>>> can’t be extended to the whole planet. (The practical effect is that cruise
>>> ships would stop calling at UK ports) However it does seem reasonable to
>>> extend it to short sea ferry crossings.
>>>
>> With ferry crews paid more than the crew of a cruise liner? This
>> would look like another anomaly..
>>
>
> Well currently the Burger King staff at Dover Ferry terminal will be
> earning more than the staff on the ferry. Just because you can’t impose
> minimum wage on cruise liners doesn’t mean you should accept exploitation
> where you do have control.
>
> This exploitation is saving the customer an average of £40 per crossing.
> Average Irish Ferries Dover Calais fares are £135 (exploited work force).
> DFDS and old P&O £175. Currently Irish Ferries are getting the traffic for
> obvious reasons. If you believe this is acceptable you might need to think
> that all UK minimum wage legislation needs to be abolished.
>

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 19:02, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21 Mar
>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>> /galley
>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>
>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>>>>>> western
>>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at Dover)
>>> there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for the pax
>>> restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same galley staff
>>> etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is essentially the same.
>>>
>>
>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
>> possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
>> their jobs?
>
> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and book,
> Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.

I wonder what happens if they’re both vegtarian? There’s often only a
single vegetarian option on the menu.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 23/03/2022 14:18, Tweed wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22/03/2022 14:27, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t1ca2f$4uv$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:57:19 on Tue, 22 Mar
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t1a1jg$bf2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:20:32 o
>>>>>>>>>>> n Mon, 21 Mar 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They might be back-to-back with the public catering areas and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> served  by the  same crew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, with a British crew, that's the most likely situation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Messrooms on the main passenger deck?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Depends on the design. Some ships I have served on yes, others no. In
>>>>>>>>>>>> the "no" cases the crew messrooms are usually above the galley and food
>>>>>>>>>>>> is transferred through a lift so there will be one or two dedicated
>>>>>>>>>>>> crew servers out of a crew of potentially 100 or so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The ships we are discussing are the Dover-Calais ferries, if that helps
>>>>>>>>>>> narrow down their floor plans. And getting back to before this diversion
>>>>>>>>>>> about exactly where the crew eat, where on the ship are their sleeping
>>>>>>>>>>> quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've just had a quick scan back through the thread and I can't find any
>>>>>>>>>> such restriction of the discussion to specifically the Dover-Calais
>>>>>>>>>> route,
>>>>>>>>>> rather than any P&O car ferry route.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What other routes did the "800" work on? The Dover-Calais is the only
>>>>>>>>> one I've seen the media and government in anguish about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then you really haven't been paying attention. There's been a great fuss
>>>>>>>> in Norn Ironland because the Larne-Cairnryan route was shut. A ship on
>>>>>>>> the Hull-Rotterdam route pulled up the gangplanks and refused to allow
>>>>>>>> the "security" staff on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Much has been made about paying the staff next to nothing is legal because
>>>>>>> of the laws that cover foreign registered ship. P&O have, it appears,
>>>>>>> been cornered into their current action because others, notably Irish
>>>>>>> Ferries, got there first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there anything to stop UK government from passing a law preventing a
>>>>>>> foreign registered regular ferry service (and we can argue what constitutes
>>>>>>> a regular ferry service) from using a UK port unless the UK minimum wage is
>>>>>>> paid? Or if they couldn’t be prevented from using the port could they be
>>>>>>> prevented from discharging traffic by the denial of customs and immigration
>>>>>>> services?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We’ve prevented the race to the bottom by the introduction of the minimum
>>>>>>> wage, but ferries seem to have got around this by exploiting international
>>>>>>> maritime law.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How could international ferries be treated any differently to the many
>>>>>> other foreign-flagged, foreign-owned merchant marine vessels sailing on
>>>>>> international routes that visit the UK? We could, probably, have control
>>>>>> over ferries sailing between UK ports, but not those sailing to non-UK
>>>>>> ports.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bilateral agreement between the governments of the ferry ports? A ferry by
>>>>> definition regularly trips between the two end points. Even if there is no
>>>>> bilateral agreement it doesn’t seem to be beyond the wit of legal drafting
>>>>> to define a ferry. Or take the pirate radio route and ban the sale of ferry
>>>>> tickets in the UK for any ferry crewed under the minimum wage.
>>>>
>>>> Presumably you'd ban the sale of all cruise line tickets in the UK on the
>>>> same basis?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> No. Cruise ships call at many overseas ports. UK minimum wage legislation
>>> can’t be extended to the whole planet. (The practical effect is that cruise
>>> ships would stop calling at UK ports) However it does seem reasonable to
>>> extend it to short sea ferry crossings.
>>
>> How could you extend it to non-UK ships that aren't based in the UK?
>> Foreign-owned, foreign-flagged, foreign crews who don't enter the UK
>> (beyond the dock), travelling to and from non-UK destinations.
>>
>> No government would get away with that.
>>
>
> Easily done. Licence the use of docks for ferry purposes and only issue
> licences to firms that conform to UK minimum wage legislation. Or apply a
> punative duty to ticket sales for non conforming companies. (Air passenger
> duty was a way round the problem that it wasn’t legally possible to tax jet
> fuel)
>

My understanding is that air passenger duty is levied on all passengers,
not just those using certain airlines. Would not solve the problem of
undercutting in gthe ferry industry.

On 23/03/2022 18:59, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 21/03/2022 09:14, Recliner wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>
>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the rest of
>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>
>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>
>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>
>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel /galley
>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>
>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>
>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>
>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>> different
>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>> western
>> cruse ship pax).
>>
> I personally would be interested in trying Indian and Filipino cuisine.
>
>

When I sailed on a ship manned by P&O Goanese staff (not sure how P&O
were involved in tghe ship's ownership) I used to often eat the Goanese
crew food as it was excellent, spicy but not stupidly hot. We were
always given a choice.

--
Colin

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21 Mar
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel /galley
>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>
>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>
>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>
>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>>> different
>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>>>>> western
>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>
>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>
>>
>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at Dover)
>> there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for the pax
>> restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same galley staff
>> etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is essentially the same.
>>
>
> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
> possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
> their jobs?
>

Not that I've noticed. I've often seen the cabin crew eating on long haul
flights, and their meals seem to be the same as the passenger meals. I've
also had crew mentioning that they particularly like one particular dish
(eg, one of the dessert choices). I think the pilots get to choose from
the business or first class menus, obviously each picking a different
choice.

I think crew have to buy their own food and drink on LoCos like Ryanair,
and perhaps they choose to bring their own, or buy food in the airport?

On 23/03/2022 21:04, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 23/03/2022 19:02, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21 Mar
>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>> /galley
>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>>>>>>> western
>>>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at Dover)
>>>> there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for the pax
>>>> restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same galley staff
>>>> etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is essentially the same.
>>>>
>>>
>>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
>>> possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
>>> their jobs?
>>
>> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
>> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and book,
>> Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.
>
> I wonder what happens if they’re both vegtarian? There’s often only a
> single vegetarian option on the menu.

I've always assumed that the food served to the crew is much better than
what the passengers suffer.

<hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:t1g1n3$da2$2@gioia.aioe.org...

>>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
>>> possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
>>> their jobs?
>>
>> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
>> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and book,
>> Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.

Is the food which is served on aeroplanes supposed to be a) palatable, b)
edible? I'm not being facetious: my experience of food on transatlantic
planes is that it is uniformly vile. I found it was better to have a meal at
home before I set off, and/or take snacks to eat on the plane.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 21:04, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 23/03/2022 19:02, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21 Mar
>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>>> /galley
>>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>>>>>>>> western
>>>>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at Dover)
>>>>> there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for the pax
>>>>> restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same galley staff
>>>>> etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is essentially the same.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>>>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
>>>> possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
>>>> their jobs?
>>>
>>> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
>>> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and book,
>>> Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.
>>
>> I wonder what happens if they’re both vegtarian? There’s often only a
>> single vegetarian option on the menu.
>
> I've always assumed that the food served to the crew is much better than
> what the passengers suffer.

I've seen no evidence of that, and I fly far more often than you do. They
do a tasty four course meal on BA short haul, with a choice of two or three
main courses. Long haul is obviously better.

ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 14:18, Tweed wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 22/03/2022 14:27, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <t1ca2f$4uv$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:57:19 on Tue, 22 Mar
>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t1a1jg$bf2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:20:32 o
>>>>>>>>>>>> n Mon, 21 Mar 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They might be back-to-back with the public catering areas and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> served  by the  same crew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, with a British crew, that's the most likely situation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Messrooms on the main passenger deck?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Depends on the design. Some ships I have served on yes, others no. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "no" cases the crew messrooms are usually above the galley and food
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is transferred through a lift so there will be one or two dedicated
>>>>>>>>>>>>> crew servers out of a crew of potentially 100 or so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The ships we are discussing are the Dover-Calais ferries, if that helps
>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow down their floor plans. And getting back to before this diversion
>>>>>>>>>>>> about exactly where the crew eat, where on the ship are their sleeping
>>>>>>>>>>>> quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've just had a quick scan back through the thread and I can't find any
>>>>>>>>>>> such restriction of the discussion to specifically the Dover-Calais
>>>>>>>>>>> route,
>>>>>>>>>>> rather than any P&O car ferry route.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What other routes did the "800" work on? The Dover-Calais is the only
>>>>>>>>>> one I've seen the media and government in anguish about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then you really haven't been paying attention. There's been a great fuss
>>>>>>>>> in Norn Ironland because the Larne-Cairnryan route was shut. A ship on
>>>>>>>>> the Hull-Rotterdam route pulled up the gangplanks and refused to allow
>>>>>>>>> the "security" staff on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Much has been made about paying the staff next to nothing is legal because
>>>>>>>> of the laws that cover foreign registered ship. P&O have, it appears,
>>>>>>>> been cornered into their current action because others, notably Irish
>>>>>>>> Ferries, got there first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there anything to stop UK government from passing a law preventing a
>>>>>>>> foreign registered regular ferry service (and we can argue what constitutes
>>>>>>>> a regular ferry service) from using a UK port unless the UK minimum wage is
>>>>>>>> paid? Or if they couldn’t be prevented from using the port could they be
>>>>>>>> prevented from discharging traffic by the denial of customs and immigration
>>>>>>>> services?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We’ve prevented the race to the bottom by the introduction of the minimum
>>>>>>>> wage, but ferries seem to have got around this by exploiting international
>>>>>>>> maritime law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How could international ferries be treated any differently to the many
>>>>>>> other foreign-flagged, foreign-owned merchant marine vessels sailing on
>>>>>>> international routes that visit the UK? We could, probably, have control
>>>>>>> over ferries sailing between UK ports, but not those sailing to non-UK
>>>>>>> ports.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bilateral agreement between the governments of the ferry ports? A ferry by
>>>>>> definition regularly trips between the two end points. Even if there is no
>>>>>> bilateral agreement it doesn’t seem to be beyond the wit of legal drafting
>>>>>> to define a ferry. Or take the pirate radio route and ban the sale of ferry
>>>>>> tickets in the UK for any ferry crewed under the minimum wage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Presumably you'd ban the sale of all cruise line tickets in the UK on the
>>>>> same basis?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No. Cruise ships call at many overseas ports. UK minimum wage legislation
>>>> can’t be extended to the whole planet. (The practical effect is that cruise
>>>> ships would stop calling at UK ports) However it does seem reasonable to
>>>> extend it to short sea ferry crossings.
>>>
>>> How could you extend it to non-UK ships that aren't based in the UK?
>>> Foreign-owned, foreign-flagged, foreign crews who don't enter the UK
>>> (beyond the dock), travelling to and from non-UK destinations.
>>>
>>> No government would get away with that.
>>>
>>
>> Easily done. Licence the use of docks for ferry purposes and only issue
>> licences to firms that conform to UK minimum wage legislation. Or apply a
>> punative duty to ticket sales for non conforming companies. (Air passenger
>> duty was a way round the problem that it wasn’t legally possible to tax jet
>> fuel)
>>
>
> My understanding is that air passenger duty is levied on all passengers,
> not just those using certain airlines. Would not solve the problem of
> undercutting in gthe ferry industry.
>

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:t1g1n3$da2$2@gioia.aioe.org...
>
>>>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>>>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
>>>> possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
>>>> their jobs?
>>>
>>> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
>>> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and book,
>>> Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.
>
> Is the food which is served on aeroplanes supposed to be a) palatable, b)
> edible? I'm not being facetious: my experience of food on transatlantic
> planes is that it is uniformly vile. I found it was better to have a meal at
> home before I set off, and/or take snacks to eat on the plane.
>

I've had delicious meals in the air. For example, I savoured a delicately
flavoured king prawn curry on Sunday afternoon, which I enjoyed a couple of
days after eating at Aponiente, one of the world's top sea food restaurants
(three Michelin stars):

https://guide.michelin.com/en/andalucia/el-puerto-de-santa-maria/restaurant/aponiente

And I still remember a delicious lobster thermidor on another BA flight.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 23/03/2022 21:04, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 23/03/2022 19:02, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21 Mar
>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>>>> /galley
>>>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>>>>>>>>> western
>>>>>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at Dover)
>>>>>> there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for the pax
>>>>>> restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same galley staff
>>>>>> etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is essentially the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>>>>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
>>>>> possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
>>>>> their jobs?
>>>>
>>>> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
>>>> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and book,
>>>> Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.
>>>
>>> I wonder what happens if they’re both vegtarian? There’s often only a
>>> single vegetarian option on the menu.
>>
>> I've always assumed that the food served to the crew is much better than
>> what the passengers suffer.
>
> I've seen no evidence of that, and I fly far more often than you do. They
> do a tasty four course meal on BA short haul, with a choice of two or three
> main courses. Long haul is obviously better.
>
>

I’ve always enjoyed business class food. Unfortunately cattle class is a
small sandwich if you are lucky these days. Often nothing.

On 23/03/2022 20:59, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 20:08, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 23/03/2022 19:02, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21
>>>>>> Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>> /galley
>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes
>>>>>>> to western
>>>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at
>>>> Dover) there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for
>>>> the pax restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same
>>>> galley staff etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is
>>>> essentially the same.
>>>>
>>>
>>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and
>>> poisoning, possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and
>>> safely performing their jobs?
>>
>> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
>> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and
>> book, Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.
>>
>
> Does the food for crew undergo anymore rigorous examination than for
> passengers?

Not as far as I know. Crew get the same as first or business class I
believe.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 23/03/2022 21:45, Recliner wrote:
> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:t1g1n3$da2$2@gioia.aioe.org...
>>
>>>>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>>>>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
>>>>> possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
>>>>> their jobs?
>>>>
>>>> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
>>>> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and book,
>>>> Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.
>>
>> Is the food which is served on aeroplanes supposed to be a) palatable, b)
>> edible? I'm not being facetious: my experience of food on transatlantic
>> planes is that it is uniformly vile. I found it was better to have a meal at
>> home before I set off, and/or take snacks to eat on the plane.
>>
>
> I've had delicious meals in the air. For example, I savoured a delicately
> flavoured king prawn curry on Sunday afternoon, which I enjoyed a couple of
> days after eating at Aponiente, one of the world's top sea food restaurants
> (three Michelin stars):
>
> https://guide.michelin.com/en/andalucia/el-puerto-de-santa-maria/restaurant/aponiente
>
> And I still remember a delicious lobster thermidor on another BA flight.

I agree. I've also had wonderful meals in the air, including in business
on BA.

The food in econo may not be anything to rave about, but it is not bad
at the same time.

On 23/03/2022 21:49, Tweed wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 23/03/2022 21:04, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 23/03/2022 19:02, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>>>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21 Mar
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20 Mar
>>>>>>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>>>>> /galley
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority are on
>>>>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys, providing
>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes to
>>>>>>>>>> western
>>>>>>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at Dover)
>>>>>>> there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for the pax
>>>>>>> restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same galley staff
>>>>>>> etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is essentially the same.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>>>>>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and poisoning,
>>>>>> possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and safely performing
>>>>>> their jobs?
>>>>>
>>>>> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
>>>>> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and book,
>>>>> Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder what happens if they’re both vegtarian? There’s often only a
>>>> single vegetarian option on the menu.
>>>
>>> I've always assumed that the food served to the crew is much better than
>>> what the passengers suffer.
>>
>> I've seen no evidence of that, and I fly far more often than you do. They
>> do a tasty four course meal on BA short haul, with a choice of two or three
>> main courses. Long haul is obviously better.
>>
>>
>
> I’ve always enjoyed business class food. Unfortunately cattle class is a
> small sandwich if you are lucky these days. Often nothing.
>

The food is generally not bad if you are flying long-distance econo --
particularly on a legacy.

As well, if you don't like it, you can normally get something else if
you politely ask.

On 23/03/2022 22:05, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 20:59, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>> On 23/03/2022 20:08, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 23/03/2022 19:02, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21
>>>>>>> Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20
>>>>>>>>> Mar
>>>>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>>> /galley
>>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority
>>>>>>>>>> are on
>>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys,
>>>>>>>> providing different
>>>>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes
>>>>>>>> to western
>>>>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at
>>>>> Dover) there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for
>>>>> the pax restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same
>>>>> galley staff etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is
>>>>> essentially the same.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>>>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and
>>>> poisoning, possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and
>>>> safely performing their jobs?
>>>
>>> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
>>> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and
>>> book, Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.
>>>
>>
>> Does the food for crew undergo anymore rigorous examination than for
>> passengers?
>
> Not as far as I know. Crew get the same as first or business class I
> believe.
>

I thought that the crew receive something completely different than
passengers -- at least flight crew.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 22:05, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 23/03/2022 20:59, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>> On 23/03/2022 20:08, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 23/03/2022 19:02, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 21/03/2022 14:07, ColinR wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> On 21/03/2022 10:00, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t19fla$34r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:14:18 on Mon, 21
>>>>>>>> Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <t17mgr$5i4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:59:19 on Sun, 20
>>>>>>>>>> Mar
>>>>>>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who are
>>>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>>>> /galley
>>>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority
>>>>>>>>>>> are on
>>>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On cruise ships, they have completely separate galleys,
>>>>>>>>> providing different
>>>>>>>>> menus (the Indian and Filipino crews have quite different tastes
>>>>>>>>> to western
>>>>>>>>> cruse ship pax).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks, that's what I thought.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I doubt that applies to short sea ferries with British crews.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly. On all the ferries I have worked on (including P&O at
>>>>>> Dover) there is a single galley but with two serving areas, one for
>>>>>> the pax restaurant and the other for the crew. Same cooks, same
>>>>>> galley staff etc. Even on those with Filipino crews this is
>>>>>> essentially the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC, air crews have meals that are completely different than
>>>>> passengers. Is this to prevent any sort of contamination and
>>>>> poisoning, possibly rendering them incapable of effectively and
>>>>> safely performing their jobs?
>>>>
>>>> Pilot and co-pilot not allowed to have the same meal in case of food
>>>> poisoning. It did happen in Canada IIRC, there's a famous film and
>>>> book, Flight Into Danger, which is a fictionalised version of the event.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Does the food for crew undergo anymore rigorous examination than for
>>> passengers?
>>
>> Not as far as I know. Crew get the same as first or business class I
>> believe.
>>
>
> I thought that the crew receive something completely different than
> passengers -- at least flight crew.
>

I don't think so. But they probably get to choose first, before the
passengers, whereas the cabin crew get what's left after the pax have
eaten.