In article <t2n3n7$l93$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> >>> and that Apple never included them,
> >>
> >> yes they did with some models.
> >
> > Which iPhone model came with a fast charger?
>
> iPhone 11 Pro and 11 Pro Max came with an 18W USB-C PD fast charger and
> the appropriate USB-C to Lightning cable.

confirming that your original claim was false.

On 4/7/2022 9:07 AM, Nil wrote:
> On 6 Apr 2022, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in
> misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:
>
>>> and that Apple never included them,
>>
>> yes they did with some models.
>
> Which iPhone model came with a fast charger?
>
>>> it's
>>> understandable that they are able to make more money by omitting chargers.
>>
>> they're not making more money by omitting it.
>
> Yes they are. Lots. But it's not how you think.

nospam is wrong of course™.

The 5W charger likely cost Apple 25¢ or so, based on what they sell for
in volume (35-50¢ each).

That doesn't sound like a lot of money to save, but it adds up when
you're selling hundreds of millions of phones.

A USB-C PD 18W charger likely would cost Apple 75¢-$1.00.

It's not just the money they save by omitting the charger, whether fast
or slow, it's the money they make by selling chargers at retail price in
their stores and online. The margins on accessories are enormous. It was
a very smart business move to stop including chargers. No iPhone user is
going to switch to Android over the cost of a $20 fast charger, and now
Android manufacturers are also omitting the charge in most cases.

It's this way for a lot of consumer items. What gets decontented from
the base product sells for an order of magnitude more at retail.

In article <t2n52g$htv$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> It's not just the money they save by omitting the charger, whether fast
> or slow, it's the money they make by selling chargers at retail price in
> their stores and online.

that's a separate issue, and there's no guarantee that someone would
buy an apple charger.

In message <t2l2cv$l18$1@dont-email.me> knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/6/2022 9:21 PM, Lewis wrote:

>> You keep making very silly comparisons that are not comparisons at all.

> Washing by hand & hanging up to dry all night is better for the environment.
> Using a washer & dryer is more convenient.

That is not the only factor. Washing and line drying also takes much more
direct effort, so no relevance at all since charging, regardless of
method, takes ZERO effort.

--
"If you want to get rich from writing, write the sort of thing that's
read by persons who move their lips when they're reading to
themselves." - Don Marquis

In message <t2l2ic$q3p$1@dont-email.me> knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/6/2022 2:13 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:

>> Meh. If I ever do need one, I'm fine with purchasing it. A few bucks
>> won't break my bank, and I'm happy to contribute to overall energy and
>> environmental savings.

> The difference between a slow charger and a fast charger is the same concept
> as the difference between drying clothes on a clothes line all night (slow)
> or putting them in the dryer (fast).

Nope, no comparison at all. Drying clothes on a line takes FAR MORE
effort. It also takes having a space for the clothes line and having the
right equipment as well.

But mostly, it is that hanging clothes on a line takes quite a lot of
time in and of itself.

--
Vampires have risen from the dead, the grave and the crypt, but have
never managed it from the cat. --Witches Abroad

On 7 Apr 2022, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in
misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:

>>>> and that Apple never included them,
>>>
>>> yes they did with some models.
>>
>> Which iPhone model came with a fast charger?
>
> iPhone 11 Pro and 11 Pro Max came with an 18W USB-C PD fast charger and
> the appropriate USB-C to Lightning cable.

What's the designed fast charging wattage on the iPhone 12 & iPhone 13?

On 7 Apr 2022, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in
misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:

>>>> and that Apple never included them,
>>>
>>> yes they did with some models.
>>
>> Which iPhone model came with a fast charger?
>
> iphone 11 pro

If you have an iPhone 11 Pro which came with an 18W fast charger and then
you also buy an iPhone 12 or iPhone 13 for your spouse, are you really going
to share your one fast charger with your spouse every day and every night?

What are you going to do when you travel?
Fedex the one fast charger Apple gave you every night to each other?

Nobody shares chargers like that but you.

On 7 Apr 2022, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in
misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:

> The 5W charger likely cost Apple 25� or so, based on what they sell for
> in volume (35-50� each).

The correct fast charger for an iPhone 12 or iPhone 13 costs $19 at Apple.

> That doesn't sound like a lot of money to save, but it adds up when
> you're selling hundreds of millions of phones.

Apple makes the money when you are at the store and you talk to the
salespeople to buy the missing but "Apple recommended" accessories.

> A USB-C PD 18W charger likely would cost Apple 75�-$1.00.

That's not the charger Apple recommends for the iPhone 12 & iPhone 13.

> It's not just the money they save by omitting the charger, whether fast
> or slow, it's the money they make by selling chargers at retail price in
> their stores and online.

The correct fast charger for an iPhone 12 & iPhone 13 was never included in
any iPhone box no matter what nospam tells you.

> The margins on accessories are enormous. It was
> a very smart business move to stop including chargers.

Apple upsells the 20W charger which is the correct charger for new iPhones.

> No iPhone user is
> going to switch to Android over the cost of a $20 fast charger, and now
> Android manufacturers are also omitting the charge in most cases.

Apple tells customers not to use an 18W charger for the iPhone 12 & 13.
> It's this way for a lot of consumer items. What gets decontented from
> the base product sells for an order of magnitude more at retail.

Apple recommends the $19 fast charger for the 20W iPhone 12 & iPhone 13.

On 7 Apr 2022, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in
misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:

>> It's not just the money they save by omitting the charger, whether fast
>> or slow, it's the money they make by selling chargers at retail price in
>> their stores and online.
>
> that's a separate issue, and there's no guarantee that someone would
> buy an apple charger.

Apple makes a big deal about electrocution from non-Apple chargers.

On 2022-04-07 12:54 p.m., Nil wrote:
> On 7 Apr 2022, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in
> misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:
>
>>> It's not just the money they save by omitting the charger, whether fast
>>> or slow, it's the money they make by selling chargers at retail price in
>>> their stores and online.
>>
>> that's a separate issue, and there's no guarantee that someone would
>> buy an apple charger.
>
> Apple makes a big deal about electrocution from non-Apple chargers.

No, actually.

They don't.

On 2022-04-07 12:32 p.m., Nil wrote:
> On 7 Apr 2022, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in
> misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:
>
>>>>> and that Apple never included them,
>>>>
>>>> yes they did with some models.
>>>
>>> Which iPhone model came with a fast charger?
>>
>> iPhone 11 Pro and 11 Pro Max came with an 18W USB-C PD fast charger and
>> the appropriate USB-C to Lightning cable.
>
> What's the designed fast charging wattage on the iPhone 12 & iPhone 13?

<https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph8c1e31583/ios>

On 2022-04-07 12:36 p.m., Nil wrote:
> On 7 Apr 2022, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in
> misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:
>
>>>>> and that Apple never included them,
>>>>
>>>> yes they did with some models.
>>>
>>> Which iPhone model came with a fast charger?
>>
>> iphone 11 pro
>
> If you have an iPhone 11 Pro which came with an 18W fast charger and then
> you also buy an iPhone 12 or iPhone 13 for your spouse, are you really going
> to share your one fast charger with your spouse every day and every night?
>
> What are you going to do when you travel?
> Fedex the one fast charger Apple gave you every night to each other?
>
> Nobody shares chargers like that but you.

Oh, look: Arlen has a new posting nym!

On 2022-04-07 12:49 p.m., Nil wrote:
> On 7 Apr 2022, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in
> misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:
>
>> The 5W charger likely cost Apple 25¢ or so, based on what they sell for
>> in volume (35-50¢ each).
>
> The correct fast charger for an iPhone 12 or iPhone 13 costs $19 at Apple."

The "correct fast charger" for any iPhone that supports fast charging is
any:

"USB-C power adapter that supports USB Power Delivery (USB-PD)"

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208137>

>
>> That doesn't sound like a lot of money to save, but it adds up when
>> you're selling hundreds of millions of phones.
>
> Apple makes the money when you are at the store and you talk to the
> salespeople to buy the missing but "Apple recommended" accessories.

And do most people buy their iPhones in Apple stores?

>
>> A USB-C PD 18W charger likely would cost Apple 75¢-$1.00.
>
> That's not the charger Apple recommends for the iPhone 12 & iPhone 13.

'Fast charge your iPhone
Use fast charge with certain iPhone models. You can recharge your iPhone
up to 50 percent battery in around 30 minutes.

You can fast charge your iPhone 8 and later up to 50 percent battery in
around 30 minutes.1

Fast charging works when you use an Apple USB-C to Lightning cable and
one of these adapters:

Apple 18W, 20W,2 29W, 30W, 61W, 87W, or 96W USB-C Power Adapter
A comparable third-party USB-C power adapter that supports USB Power
Delivery (USB-PD)'

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208137>

>
>> It's not just the money they save by omitting the charger, whether fast
>> or slow, it's the money they make by selling chargers at retail price in
>> their stores and online.
>
> The correct fast charger for an iPhone 12 & iPhone 13 was never included in
> any iPhone box no matter what nospam tells you.

And never needed to be.

>
>> The margins on accessories are enormous. It was
>> a very smart business move to stop including chargers.
>
> Apple upsells the 20W charger which is the correct charger for new iPhones.

Nope. There are many correct chargers for new iPhones.

>
>> No iPhone user is
>> going to switch to Android over the cost of a $20 fast charger, and now
>> Android manufacturers are also omitting the charge in most cases.
>
> Apple tells customers not to use an 18W charger for the iPhone 12 & 13.

Now you're just flat-out lying again, Arlen.

>
>> It's this way for a lot of consumer items. What gets decontented from
>> the base product sells for an order of magnitude more at retail.
>
> Apple recommends the $19 fast charger for the 20W iPhone 12 & iPhone 13.

Cite please!

On 4/7/2022 1:00 PM, Alan wrote:

<snip>

>> Nobody shares chargers like that but you.
>
> Oh, look: Arlen has a new posting nym!
LOL, I had the same suspicion.

The reality is that people that travel often have likely purchased a
sufficient number of chargers, often with multiple outputs.

It's become even easier now with PD/QC multiple output chargers that can
fast charge and power phones, tablets, laptops, cameras, razors, etc.,
all at once with the proper cable i.e. this 100W charger
<https://www.ugreen.com/products/100w-3 c1a-gan-fast-charger> for $51.99.

Even if your laptop doesn't charge with USB-C PD, you can buy an
emulator trigger with USB-C female and the appropriate barrel connector
for your laptop, i.e. <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PHCXSLF>.

Here is a photo I took at the Dublin Ireland airport in 2015
<https://i.imgur.com/2Y1Kc9R.jpg>.

On 4/7/2022 1:03 PM, Alan wrote:

<snip>

> And do most people buy their iPhones in Apple stores?

Interesting question.

Carriers offer some very good deals on phones when you buy the phone
from them and finance it for 24-36 months since it locks you in for the
duration of the financing.

But it seems like a great many people do buy from an Apple Store or
Apple's web site because they want an unlocked phone that they can use
when they travel (or because they don't want to be locked into their
carrier), or from an authorized dealer for the carrier (like Costco).
The two iPhones that I've purchased were bought from the carrier at
substantially less than what Apple was charging for the same model, but
they were locked to that carrier for one year.

If you recall the many articles discussing the pros and cons of the
iPhone SE3 2022 versus an iPhone 11 as an entry level iPhone, you can
get the unlocked iPhone 11 for substantially less than the SE3 2022,
about $305 (including the 60 days of service for it to be unlocked by
Verizon), and IMVAIO, the iPhone 11 is much better device.

On 2022-04-07 2:06 p.m., sms wrote:
> On 4/7/2022 1:03 PM, Alan wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> And do most people buy their iPhones in Apple stores?
>
> Interesting question.
>
> Carriers offer some very good deals on phones when you buy the phone
> from them and finance it for 24-36 months since it locks you in for the
> duration of the financing.
>
> But it seems like a great many people do buy from an Apple Store or
> Apple's web site because they want an unlocked phone that they can use
> when they travel (or because they don't want to be locked into their
> carrier), or from an authorized dealer for the carrier (like Costco).
> The two iPhones that I've purchased were bought from the carrier at
> substantially less than what Apple was charging for the same model, but
> they were locked to that carrier for one year.
>
> If you recall the many articles discussing the pros and cons of the
> iPhone SE3 2022 versus an iPhone 11 as an entry level iPhone, you can
> get the unlocked iPhone 11 for substantially less than the SE3 2022,
> about $305 (including the 60 days of service for it to be unlocked by
> Verizon), and IMVAIO, the iPhone 11 is much better device.
>
>

But this is Arlen specifically talking about in-person sales where the
buyer "talk[s] to the salespeople".

So Apple website purchases don't count.

In article <t2njns$34r$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> you can
> get the unlocked iPhone 11 for substantially less than the SE3 2022,

nope. the iphone 11 is more expensive than the se 2022.

you are comparing discounted prices for the 11 with full price for the
se 2022, an invalid comparison.

In article <t2nfhs$d71$1@dont-email.me>, Nil
<rednoise9@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:

> Apple makes a big deal about electrocution from non-Apple chargers.

no they don't.

quality name brand chargers that are compliant with the usb spec are
*not* a problem whatsoever. apple even sells some of them in their
stores and online.

they do make a big deal about no-name non-compliant chargers, as do
other companies, because those carry a significant risk for both the
device and the person using it.

two very different things.

On 4/7/2022 2:29 PM, Alan wrote:

<snip>

> But this is Arlen specifically talking about in-person sales where the
> buyer "talk[s] to the salespeople".
>
> So Apple website purchases don't count.

The Apple website will also suggest accessories to purchase after you
add an iPhone to your shopping bag, specifically a MagSafe wireless
charger, with an explanation that the USB-PD power adapter for the
wireless charger is not included.

But in-person sales almost certainly result in more sales of chargers
because the buyer doesn't want to appear to be cheaping out by not
buying the suggested genuine accessories.

It would be interesting to have data on how many iPhones are sold
through each sales channel, 1) Apple website, 2) Apple stores, 3)
carrier web site, 4) carrier-owned stores, 5) carrier authorized dealers
(Best Buy, Costco, Walmart, Target). But this is not data that is being
made public. Their 2018 annual report said 29% direct, 71% indirect but
that was for revenue, not volume, and included all products, not just
iPhones <https://fourweekmba.com/apple-distribution-strategy/>. A 2017
report claimed that only 10% of iPhones were sold direct
<https://bgr.com/business/iphone-apple-store-vs-verizon-att/>.

In article <t2npkb$o24$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> But in-person sales almost certainly result in more sales of chargers
> because the buyer doesn't want to appear to be cheaping out by not
> buying the suggested genuine accessories.

that's quite a stretch, even for you.

In message <t2nft9$dab$3@dont-email.me> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-04-07 12:36 p.m., Nil wrote:
>> On 7 Apr 2022, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in
>> misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:
>>
>>>>>> and that Apple never included them,
>>>>>
>>>>> yes they did with some models.
>>>>
>>>> Which iPhone model came with a fast charger?
>>>
>>> iphone 11 pro
>>
>> If you have an iPhone 11 Pro which came with an 18W fast charger and then
>> you also buy an iPhone 12 or iPhone 13 for your spouse, are you really going
>> to share your one fast charger with your spouse every day and every night?

How long do you think charging takes, you nynshifting Arleen sockpuppet?

>> Nobody shares chargers like that but you.

You are a lonely lonely troglodyte.

> Oh, look: Arlen has a new posting nym!

Just as dumb as all the others.

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Wuh, I think so, Brain, but how will we get three pink flamingos
into one pair of Capri pants?"

In message <t2njns$34r$1@dont-email.me> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> you can get the unlocked iPhone 11 for substantially less than the SE3
> 2022,

You continue to repeat this lie, because you are a liar and a troll.

This is NOT TRUE.

It was not true then, it is not true now.

--
"There's sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin
dime and at least the trains all run on time but they don't go
anywhere."

On 7 Apr 2022, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in
misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:

>> Apple makes a big deal about electrocution from non-Apple chargers.
>
> no they don't.

Yes they do.

On 7 Apr 2022, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in
misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android:

>> But in-person sales almost certainly result in more sales of chargers
>> because the buyer doesn't want to appear to be cheaping out by not
>> buying the suggested genuine accessories.
>
> that's quite a stretch, even for you.

The sales person will make a big deal about electrocution from non Apple
chargers which Apple removed when they put the 20 W charger in the store.

In article <slrnt4ur9j.5te.g.kreme@m1mini.local>, Lewis
<g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

> In message <t2njns$34r$1@dont-email.me> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> > you can get the unlocked iPhone 11 for substantially less than the SE3
> > 2022,
>
> You continue to repeat this lie, because you are a liar and a troll.
>
> This is NOT TRUE.
>
> It was not true then, it is not true now.

it is if you compare a discounted price for the iphone 11 with full
retail price for the se.

that is of course, a completely bogus comparison.