On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
>
> Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.

Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.

> He could also relate very well to "filthy."

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:02:48 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >
> > Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.

If you don't want your poetry to be shared and discussed, you shouldn't post it here.

If you do want your poetry to be shared and discussed, you should not cast aspersions on those who choose to oblige you.

In short: WTF is your problem, George?

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
>>
>> Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.

> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.

Exactly, the poem is about much more than the narrow, malicious focus of the trolls.

HTH and HAND.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >
> > Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
> > He could also relate very well to "filthy."

George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage--she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities. Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"

Are you hearing voices or seeing strange lights?

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:43:51 PM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
> > >
> > > Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
> > Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
> > the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
> > > He could also relate very well to "filthy."
> George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage--she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities

Which is actually an example of how you're a malicious stalking liar, NancyGene.

Thanks for demonstrating that for us.

🙂

On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
>>>
>>> Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
>> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
>> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
>>> He could also relate very well to "filthy."
>
> George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage-

No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet again,
of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In this
case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted one of his
faves.

> she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities

Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have both
given it far more attention. I guess that says something about their
"proclivities".

> Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"

'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and
was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.

> Are you hearing voices or seeing strange lights?

None here, sorry.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:53:36 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:43:51 PM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
> > > Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
> > > the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
> > > > He could also relate very well to "filthy."
> > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage--she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities
> Which is actually an example of how you're a malicious stalking liar, NancyGene.
>
> Thanks for demonstrating that for us.

Since you often use "stalking" to mean that someone has looked up facts about you (or your Stink) on the internet, once can assume that NancyGene's above allegations are valid.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
> >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
> >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
> >>> He could also relate very well to "filthy."
> >
> > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage-
> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet again,
> of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In this
> case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted one of his
> faves.

Don't flatter yourself, Dance.

I find this piece of doggerel to be laughably atrocious.

I only remember it because it's "largely" autobiographical nature sheds a good deal of light on your psychological makeup.

> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities
> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have both
> given it far more attention. I guess that says something about their
> "proclivities".
> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and
> was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.

It's in keeping with what we know of Stink's character (arrested for "indecent exposure," public urination, his "bunk buddy" relationship with Dirty Mike, his latent(?) homosexual adulation of the Donkey, etc.).

> > Are you hearing voices or seeing strange lights?
> None here, sorry.

True. You suffer from paranoia, a persecution complex, a martyr complex, and NPD coupled with (and compensating for) an inferiority complex.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >> On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
>> >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
>> >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
>> >>> He could also relate very well to "filthy."
>> >
>> > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage-
>> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet again,
>> of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In this
>> case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted one of his
>> faves.

> Don't flatter yourself, Dance.

> I find this piece of doggerel to be laughably atrocious.

> I only remember it because it's "largely" autobiographical nature sheds a good deal of light on your psychological makeup.

>> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities
>> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have both
>> given it far more attention. I guess that says something about their
>> "proclivities".
>> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
>> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and
>> was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.

> It's in keeping with what we know of Stink's character (arrested for "indecent exposure," public urination, his "bunk buddy" relationship with Dirty Mike, his latent(?) homosexual adulation of

Why do you lie and misrepresent so much, Michael Pendragon?

>> > Are you hearing voices or seeing strange lights?
>> None here, sorry.

> True. You suffer from paranoia, a persecution complex, a martyr complex, and NPD coupled with (and compensating for) an inferiority complex.

Michael Pendragon in armchair psychiatrist mode, noted again.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
> >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
> >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
> >>> He could also relate very well to "filthy."
> >
> > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage-
> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet again,
> of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In this
> case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted one of his
> faves.
> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities
> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have both
> given it far more attention. I guess that says something about their
> "proclivities".

All malicious lies, Nancy G. isn't quite the stalker she wishes she was... ha ha.

> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and
> was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.
> > Are you hearing voices or seeing strange lights?
> None here, sorry.

More Voodoo Boy bogus magic tricks...?

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> >>>>>>>>>> that.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> >
> > Not really.
> >
> > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >
> > Look it up.
> Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
>
> " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
> occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
> his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
> years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
> mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
> indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
> his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
> Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
> by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
> Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
> https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote: :
> > > > > > >> >> > > On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > >> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> My Father's House
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> ~~
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > >> >> > >> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > >> >> > >> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > >> >> > >> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > >> >> > >> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > >> >> > >> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > >> >> > >> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > >> >> > >> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > >> >> > >> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > >> >> > > “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > >> >> > > from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > >> >> > > and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > >> >> > > subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > >> >> > that.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > >> >> > thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned.. If someone
> > > > > > >> >> > thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > >> >> > titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > >> >> > were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > >> >> > was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > >> >> > interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > > Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > >> >> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > >> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > Not really.
> >
> > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >
> > Look it up.
> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > > On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > >> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> My Father's House
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> ~~
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > >> >> > >> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > >> >> > >> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > >> >> > >> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > >> >> > >> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > >> >> > >> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > >> >> > >> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > >> >> > >> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > >> >> > >> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > >> >> > > “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > >> >> > > from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > >> >> > > and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > >> >> > > subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > >> >> > that.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > >> >> > thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned.. If someone
> > > > > > >> >> > thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > >> >> > titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > >> >> > were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > >> >> > was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > >> >> > interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > > Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > >> >> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > >> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > Not really.
> >
> > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >
> > Look it up.
> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 6:05:43 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> > On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> > > On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> ~~
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > >> >> > > Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > > >> >> > > “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > > >> >> > > from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > > >> >> > > and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > > >> >> > > subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> > Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > > >> >> > that.
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> > Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > > >> >> > thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > > >> >> > thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > > >> >> > titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > > >> >> > were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> > Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > > >> >> > was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > > >> >> > interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> > > Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> > I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > > >> >> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > > >> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > > And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > Not really.
> > >
> > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > >
> > > Look it up.
> > I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Oh, something of interest finally! That sounds pretty cool.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> >>>>>>>>>> that.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> >
> > Not really.
> >
> > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >
> > Look it up.
> Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
>
> " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
> occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
> his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
> years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
> mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
> indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
> his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
> Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
> by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
> Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
> https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:11:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote:
> > >>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > >>>>>>>>>> that.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > >
> > > Not really.
> > >
> > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > >
> > > Look it up.
> > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
> >
> > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
> > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
> > his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
> > years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
> > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
> > indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
> > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
> > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
> > by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
> > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
> > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
> But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:11:44 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote:
> > >>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > >>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > >>>>>>>>>> that.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > >
> > > Not really.
> > >
> > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > >
> > > Look it up.
> > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
> >
> > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
> > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
> > his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after eight
> > years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any more, nor
> > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
> > indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection there.”[4] Yet
> > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
> > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
> > by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
> > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
> > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
> But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 10:11:19 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> >> On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
> >> >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
> >> >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
> >> >>> He could also relate very well to "filthy."
> >> >
> >> > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage-
> >> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet again,
> >> of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In this
> >> case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted one of his
> >> faves.
>
> > Don't flatter yourself, Dance.
>
> > I find this piece of doggerel to be laughably atrocious.
>
> > I only remember it because it's "largely" autobiographical nature sheds a good deal of light on your psychological makeup.
>
> >> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities
> >> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have both
> >> given it far more attention. I guess that says something about their
> >> "proclivities".
> >> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
> >> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and
> >> was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.
>
> > It's in keeping with what we know of Stink's character (arrested for "indecent exposure," public urination, his "bunk buddy" relationship with Dirty Mike, his latent(?) homosexual adulation of
> Why do you lie and misrepresent so much, Michael Pendragon?

It's in the archives, Donkey.

Look it up.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:53:36 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:43:51 PM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
>
>> > > > Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
>> > > Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
>> > > the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
>> > > > He could also relate very well to "filthy."
>> > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage--she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities
>> Which is actually an example of how you're a malicious stalking liar, NancyGene.

Liar being the key word, as they say ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Thanks for demonstrating that for us.

> Since you often use "stalking" to mean that someone has looked up facts about you (or your Stink) on the internet, once can assume that NancyGene's above allegations are valid.

No, it shows that Nancy Gene is rather inept as a stalker... since none of what she wrote about me is true...

Ha ha.

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
>>>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
>>
>> Not really.
>>
>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
>>
>> Look it up.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 10:20:22 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 10:11:19 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> > >> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> >> On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
> > >> >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
> > >> >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
> > >> >>> He could also relate very well to "filthy."
> > >> >
> > >> > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage-
> > >> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet again,
> > >> of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In this
> > >> case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted one of his
> > >> faves.
> >
> > > Don't flatter yourself, Dance.
> >
> > > I find this piece of doggerel to be laughably atrocious.
> >
> > > I only remember it because it's "largely" autobiographical nature sheds a good deal of light on your psychological makeup.
> >
> > >> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities
> > >> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have both
> > >> given it far more attention. I guess that says something about their
> > >> "proclivities".
> > >> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
> > >> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and
> > >> was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.
> >
> > > It's in keeping with what we know of Stink's character (arrested for "indecent exposure," public urination, his "bunk buddy" relationship with Dirty Mike, his latent(?) homosexual adulation of
> > Why do you lie and misrepresent so much, Michael Pendragon?
> It's in the archives

Great, show us.

HTH and HAND.

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 10:11:19 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> >> On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
> >> >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
> >> >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
> >> >>> He could also relate very well to "filthy."
> >> >
> >> > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage-
> >> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet again,
> >> of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In this
> >> case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted one of his
> >> faves.
>
> > Don't flatter yourself, Dance.
>
> > I find this piece of doggerel to be laughably atrocious.
>
> > I only remember it because it's "largely" autobiographical nature sheds a good deal of light on your psychological makeup.
>
> >> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities
> >> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have both
> >> given it far more attention. I guess that says something about their
> >> "proclivities".
> >> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
> >> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and
> >> was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.
>
> > It's in keeping with what we know of Stink's character (arrested for "indecent exposure," public urination, his "bunk buddy" relationship with Dirty Mike, his latent(?) homosexual adulation of
> Why do you lie and misrepresent so much, Michael Pendragon?
> >> > Are you hearing voices or seeing strange lights?
> >> None here, sorry.
>
> > True. You suffer from paranoia, a persecution complex, a martyr complex, and NPD coupled with (and compensating for) an inferiority complex.
> Michael Pendragon in armchair psychiatrist mode, noted again.

Michael’s observations and terminology are more suggestive of pop psychology than competent psychiatric
analysis. In my experience, psychiatrists are more focused on helping their patients than arguing with them.

On 2022-12-01 1:18 a.m., W.Dockery wrote:
> George J. Dance wrote:
>
>> On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5,
>>> rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5,
>>>>> rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>>> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> “your” poem from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevant pronouns
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House
>>>>>>>>>>>>> allows “you” to represent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker, and also provides a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> heaven…”, that “My” does not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to
>>>>>>>>>>>> acknowledge
>>>>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem
>>>>>>>>>>>> considerably, but one
>>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If
>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood
>>>>>>>>>>>> because it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to
>>>>>>>>>>>> think that if it
>>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some
>>>>>>>>>>>> might think it
>>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> that's an
>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's
>>>>>>>>>>>> thought process.
>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be
>>>>>>>>>>> presented......
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
>>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
>>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what
>>>>>> you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of
>>>>>> their time and energy in a place like aapc?
>>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
>>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you
>>>> and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
>>>
>>> Not really.
>>>
>>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
>>>
>>> Look it up.
>
>> Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
>
>> " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26
>> it occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he
>> wrote in his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after
>> eight years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any
>> more, nor mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when
>> melancholy and indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection
>> there.”[4] Yet his alcoholism reached new extremes after the
>> publication of On the Road. In addition to losing his treasured
>> privacy, Jack was also shocked by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession
>> of marijuana in 1958, for which Neal served two years in a California
>> prison.[5]"
>> https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
>
> Again, good find, George.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 6:56:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-12-01 1:18 a.m., W.Dockery wrote:
> > George J. Dance wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5,
> >>> rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5,
> >>>>> rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5,
> >>>>>>>>>>> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> “your” poem from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> relevant pronouns
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> allows “you” to represent
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker, and also provides a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> acknowledge
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem
> >>>>>>>>>>>> considerably, but one
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If
> >>>>>>>>>>>> someone
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood
> >>>>>>>>>>>> because it was
> >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> think that if it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some
> >>>>>>>>>>>> might think it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that's an
> >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thought process.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be
> >>>>>>>>>>> presented......
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what
> >>>>>> you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of
> >>>>>> their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you
> >>>> and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> >>>
> >>> Not really.
> >>>
> >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >>>
> >>> Look it up.
> >
> >> Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
> >
> >> " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26
> >> it occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he
> >> wrote in his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after
> >> eight years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any
> >> more, nor mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when
> >> melancholy and indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection
> >> there.”[4] Yet his alcoholism reached new extremes after the
> >> publication of On the Road. In addition to losing his treasured
> >> privacy, Jack was also shocked by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession
> >> of marijuana in 1958, for which Neal served two years in a California
> >> prison.[5]"
> >> https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
> >
> > Again, good find, George.
> the idea that he drank more because of his loss of privacy is certainly
> plausible. Fame and the life in a fishbowl that comes with it does have
> a downside. It's uncited here, but one can look for more.
>
> Or one can believe Bobby Burro, who says it wasn't a factor and who says
> he has a "friend."

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 6:58:27 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 6:56:34 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > On 2022-12-01 1:18 a.m., W.Dockery wrote:
> > > George J. Dance wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 2022-11-30 8:30 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5,
> > >>> rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:10:26 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-5,
> > >>>>> rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:09:25 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 11:05:30 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery
> > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:05:34 AM UTC-5,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-27 7:09 a.m., Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “your” poem from
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> relevant pronouns
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> allows “you” to represent
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker, and also provides a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> acknowledge
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> considerably, but one
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> someone
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> because it was
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> think that if it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> might think it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that's an
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought process.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be
> > >>>>>>>>>>> presented......
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what
> > >>>>>> you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of
> > >>>>>> their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you
> > >>>> and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death..
> > >>>
> > >>> Not really.
> > >>>
> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > >>>
> > >>> Look it up.
> > >
> > >> Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
> > >
> > >> " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26
> > >> it occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he
> > >> wrote in his journal, “I started drinking at eighteen but that’s after
> > >> eight years of occasional boozing, I can’t physically take it any
> > >> more, nor mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when
> > >> melancholy and indecision first came over me—there’s a fair connection
> > >> there.”[4] Yet his alcoholism reached new extremes after the
> > >> publication of On the Road. In addition to losing his treasured
> > >> privacy, Jack was also shocked by Neal Cassady’s arrest for possession
> > >> of marijuana in 1958, for which Neal served two years in a California
> > >> prison.[5]"
> > >> https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
> > >
> > > Again, good find, George.
> > the idea that he drank more because of his loss of privacy is certainly
> > plausible. Fame and the life in a fishbowl that comes with it does have
> > a downside. It's uncited here, but one can look for more.
> >
> > Or one can believe Bobby Burro, who says it wasn't a factor and who says
> > he has a "friend."
> Why are you resorting to childish name calling George?