On 2022-11-30 3:10 p.m., W.Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5,
>> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote: > On Wednesday, November
>>> 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote: >> On
>>> 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote: >>> >>> Good one, ME! We don't
>>> have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the
>>> words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant
>>> heaven. >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found
>>> that stanza in >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the
>>> reason you conjectured. >>> He could also relate very well to
>>> "filthy." > > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say
>>> that ME found that passage-
>>> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet
>>> again, of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In
>>> this case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted
>>> one of his faves.
>
>> Don't flatter yourself, Dance.
>
>> I find this piece of doggerel to be laughably atrocious.
>
>> I only remember it because it's "largely" autobiographical nature
>> sheds a good deal of light on your psychological makeup.
>
>>> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr.
>>> Zod's proclivities
>>> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have
>>> both given it far more attention. I guess that says something about
>>> their "proclivities".
>>> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
>>> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt"
>>> and was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.
>
>> It's in keeping with what we know of Stink's character (arrested for
>> "indecent exposure," public urination, his "bunk buddy" relationship
>> with Dirty Mike, his latent(?) homosexual adulation of
>
> Why do you lie and misrepresent so much, Michael Pendragon?
>

He is misrepresenting, but I don't think he's deliberately lying. The
thing is, he is obviously a bright boy (I'd say his IQ is over 120),
which means when he's he's constantly thinking and imagining, even when
he's perceiving, listening,or reading. And I think he's incapable of
distinguishing between what his perceptions and his imaginings. For him
what he imagines is as much the "truth" as what he learns.

>>> > Are you hearing voices or seeing strange lights?
>>> None here, sorry.
>
>> True.  You suffer from paranoia, a persecution complex, a martyr
>> complex, and NPD coupled with (and compensating for) an inferiority
>> complex.
>
> Michael Pendragon in armchair psychiatrist mode, noted again.

I don't like calling him an "armchair psychiatrist", which implies that
he's a psyciatrist of some kind. He's simply a guy who read Freud and
Jung decades ago, and what he remembers of their work is what he's
re-imagined (in the same way he re-imagined /Atlas Shrugged/).

On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote: :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
>>>>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
>>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
>>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
>>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
>>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
>>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
>>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
>>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
>>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
>>> Not really.
>>>
>>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
>>>
>>> Look it up.
>> I don't have to look it up, Will.
>> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
>
> No, not really, Robert.
>
> Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
>

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote: :
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> >>> Not really.
> >>>
> >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >>>
> >>> Look it up.
> >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> >
> > No, not really, Robert.
> >
> > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> >
> Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:11:07 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 3:10 p.m., W.Dockery wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5,
> >> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote: > On Wednesday, November
> >>> 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote: >> On
> >>> 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote: >>> >>> Good one, ME! We don't
> >>> have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the
> >>> words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant
> >>> heaven. >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found
> >>> that stanza in >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the
> >>> reason you conjectured. >>> He could also relate very well to
> >>> "filthy." > > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say
> >>> that ME found that passage-
> >>> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet
> >>> again, of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In
> >>> this case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted
> >>> one of his faves.
> >
> >> Don't flatter yourself, Dance.
> >
> >> I find this piece of doggerel to be laughably atrocious.
> >
> >> I only remember it because it's "largely" autobiographical nature
> >> sheds a good deal of light on your psychological makeup.
> >
> >>> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr.
> >>> Zod's proclivities
> >>> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have
> >>> both given it far more attention. I guess that says something about
> >>> their "proclivities".
> >>> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
> >>> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt"
> >>> and was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.
> >
> >> It's in keeping with what we know of Stink's character (arrested for
> >> "indecent exposure," public urination, his "bunk buddy" relationship
> >> with Dirty Mike, his latent(?) homosexual adulation of
> >
> > Why do you lie and misrepresent so much, Michael Pendragon?
> >
> He is misrepresenting, but I don't think he's deliberately lying. The
> thing is, he is obviously a bright boy (I'd say his IQ is over 120),
> which means when he's he's constantly thinking and imagining, even when
> he's perceiving, listening,or reading. And I think he's incapable of
> distinguishing between what his perceptions and his imaginings. For him
> what he imagines is as much the "truth" as what he learns.

1) Stink was arrested for "indecent exposure."
2) He claimed that he was urinating on a bush (apparently in the middle of town).
3) He has often written about how he and his buddy, Dirty Mike, have set up a separate "camp" for themselves, and the Donkey often asks how he and Dirty Mike are doing (as if they were a couple).
4) He slurps "Doc's" posts 24/7, and seems to worship the ground he waddles on.

Which of the above do you think I'm imagining?

> >>> > Are you hearing voices or seeing strange lights?
> >>> None here, sorry.
> >
> >> True. You suffer from paranoia, a persecution complex, a martyr
> >> complex, and NPD coupled with (and compensating for) an inferiority
> >> complex.
> >
> > Michael Pendragon in armchair psychiatrist mode, noted again.
> I don't like calling him an "armchair psychiatrist", which implies that
> he's a psyciatrist of some kind. He's simply a guy who read Freud and
> Jung decades ago, and what he remembers of their work is what he's
> re-imagined (in the same way he re-imagined /Atlas Shrugged/).

Everyone's memory re-imagines things, George. That's how memory works.

Your open hostility toward... everyone... makes your condition clear enough to anyone with even the most basic understanding of psychology (armchair, "pop," or licensed).

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:11:07 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-30 3:10 p.m., W.Dockery wrote:
>> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5,
>> >> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >>> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote: > On Wednesday, November
>> >>> 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote: >> On
>> >>> 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote: >>> >>> Good one, ME! We don't
>> >>> have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the
>> >>> words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant
>> >>> heaven. >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found
>> >>> that stanza in >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the
>> >>> reason you conjectured. >>> He could also relate very well to
>> >>> "filthy." > > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say
>> >>> that ME found that passage-
>> >>> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet
>> >>> again, of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In
>> >>> this case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted
>> >>> one of his faves.
>> >
>> >> Don't flatter yourself, Dance.
>> >
>> >> I find this piece of doggerel to be laughably atrocious.
>> >
>> >> I only remember it because it's "largely" autobiographical nature
>> >> sheds a good deal of light on your psychological makeup.
>> >
>> >>> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr.
>> >>> Zod's proclivities
>> >>> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have
>> >>> both given it far more attention. I guess that says something about
>> >>> their "proclivities".
>> >>> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
>> >>> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt"
>> >>> and was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.
>> >
>> >> It's in keeping with what we know of Stink's character (arrested for
>> >> "indecent exposure," public urination, his "bunk buddy" relationship
>> >> with Dirty Mike, his latent(?) homosexual adulation of
>> >
>> > Why do you lie and misrepresent so much, Michael Pendragon?
>> >
>> He is misrepresenting, but I don't think he's deliberately lying. The
>> thing is, he is obviously a bright boy (I'd say his IQ is over 120),
>> which means when he's he's constantly thinking and imagining, even when
>> he's perceiving, listening,or reading. And I think he's incapable of
>> distinguishing between what his perceptions and his imaginings. For him
>> what he imagines is as much the "truth" as what he learns.

In other words, Michael Pendragon makes it up as he goes along.

> 1) Stink was arrested for "indecent exposure."

The story of what happened is pretty funny, maybe Zod will tell it one day.

Hint to stalkers, it was actually written up in the local newspaper when it happened.

I kid you not.

> 2) He claimed that he was urinating on a bush (apparently in the middle of town).

Actually, Zod never claimed that.

I know what happened, and none of your guesses are correct.

> 3) He has often written about how he and his buddy, Dirty Mike, have set up a separate "camp" for themselves,

Yes, why would they want to live with a dozen others?

Mike and Zod both have privacy at their camp, visitors are on an invitation basis.

> often asks how he and Dirty Mike are doing (as if they were a couple).

Zod and Mike are not a "couple".

That would be like imagining you and your next door neighbor are a couple.

> 4) He slurps "Doc's" posts 24/7, and seems to worship the ground he waddles on.

So Zod likes my poetry.

You stated just today that Zod is very knowledgeable about poetry.

> Which of the above do you think I'm imagining?

Pretty much every bit of it.

>> >>> > Are you hearing voices or seeing strange lights?
>> >>> None here, sorry.
>> >
>> >> True. You suffer from

You're not a doctor, you can't make a legitimate diagnosis.

> paranoia, a persecution complex, a martyr
>> >> complex, and NPD coupled with (and compensating for) an inferiority
>> >> complex.
>> >
>> > Michael Pendragon in armchair psychiatrist mode, noted again.
>> I don't like calling him an "armchair psychiatrist", which implies that
>> he's a psyciatrist of some kind. He's simply a guy who read Freud and
>> Jung decades ago, and what he remembers of their work is what he's
>> re-imagined (in the same way he re-imagined /Atlas Shrugged/).

> Everyone's memory re-imagines things, George. That's how memory works.

> Your open hostility toward... everyone...

Against you and your thug wannabe troll friends, you mean.

HTH and HAND.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote: :
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> >>> Not really.
> >>>
> >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >>>
> >>> Look it up.
> >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> >
> > No, not really, Robert.
> >
> > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> >
> Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > >>> Not really.
> > >>>
> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > >>>
> > >>> Look it up.
> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > >
> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > >
> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > >
> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
>> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
>> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
>> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
>> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
>> > >>> Not really.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Look it up.
>> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
>> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
>> > >
>> > > No, not really, Robert.
>> > >
>> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
>> > >
>> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
>> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
>> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
>> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:38:26 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:11:07 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-30 3:10 p.m., W.Dockery wrote:
> >> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5,
> >> >> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> >>> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote: > On Wednesday, November
> >> >>> 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote: >> On
> >> >>> 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote: >>> >>> Good one, ME! We don't
> >> >>> have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the
> >> >>> words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant
> >> >>> heaven. >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found
> >> >>> that stanza in >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the
> >> >>> reason you conjectured. >>> He could also relate very well to
> >> >>> "filthy." > > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say
> >> >>> that ME found that passage-
> >> >>> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet
> >> >>> again, of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In
> >> >>> this case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted
> >> >>> one of his faves.
> >> >
> >> >> Don't flatter yourself, Dance.
> >> >
> >> >> I find this piece of doggerel to be laughably atrocious.
> >> >
> >> >> I only remember it because it's "largely" autobiographical nature
> >> >> sheds a good deal of light on your psychological makeup.
> >> >
> >> >>> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr.
> >> >>> Zod's proclivities
> >> >>> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have
> >> >>> both given it far more attention. I guess that says something about
> >> >>> their "proclivities".
> >> >>> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
> >> >>> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt"
> >> >>> and was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.
> >> >
> >> >> It's in keeping with what we know of Stink's character (arrested for
> >> >> "indecent exposure," public urination, his "bunk buddy" relationship
> >> >> with Dirty Mike, his latent(?) homosexual adulation of
> >> >
> >> > Why do you lie and misrepresent so much, Michael Pendragon?
> >> >
> >> He is misrepresenting, but I don't think he's deliberately lying. The
> >> thing is, he is obviously a bright boy (I'd say his IQ is over 120),
> >> which means when he's he's constantly thinking and imagining, even when
> >> he's perceiving, listening,or reading. And I think he's incapable of
> >> distinguishing between what his perceptions and his imaginings. For him
> >> what he imagines is as much the "truth" as what he learns.
> In other words, Michael Pendragon makes it up as he goes along.

I list the evidence that has been posted here. Over the years we have seen three arrest records, one mug shot, and a victim's account of his drunken, murderous attack. We've also witnessed his obsessive, clingy, and eyebrow-raising attachments to you and Dirty Mike.

> > 1) Stink was arrested for "indecent exposure."
> The story of what happened is pretty funny, maybe Zod will tell it one day.
>
> Hint to stalkers, it was actually written up in the local newspaper when it happened.
>
> I kid you not.

How many times has Stink been arrested, Will?

We have seen three arrest records and a mug shot. I'm guessing that for every one there are at least 5 that went under the radar.

> > 2) He claimed that he was urinating on a bush (apparently in the middle of town).
> Actually, Zod never claimed that.
>
> I know what happened, and none of your guesses are correct.

That was his story at the time.

> > 3) He has often written about how he and his buddy, Dirty Mike, have set up a separate "camp" for themselves,
> Yes, why would they want to live with a dozen others?

IOW: They got a "room."
> Mike and Zod both have privacy at their camp, visitors are on an invitation basis.

LOL! And unannounced guests are forced to wait in the hall.

> > often asks how he and Dirty Mike are doing (as if they were a couple).
> Zod and Mike are not a "couple".

You treat them like one.
> That would be like imagining you and your next door neighbor are a couple..

They are.

> > 4) He slurps "Doc's" posts 24/7, and seems to worship the ground he waddles on.
> So Zod likes my poetry.

Slurp-slurp.

> You stated just today that Zod is very knowledgeable about poetry.

I stated no such thing, Donkey.

I said that he's more knowledgeable about poetry than an illiterate, dumbass, high school drop out.

> > Which of the above do you think I'm imagining?
> Pretty much every bit of it.

It's in the archives. Look it up.

> >> >>> > Are you hearing voices or seeing strange lights?
> >> >>> None here, sorry.
> >> >
> >> >> True. You suffer from
> You're not a doctor, you can't make a legitimate diagnosis.

Dance can't afford a doctor, and should be grateful for what you can get.

> > paranoia, a persecution complex, a martyr
> >> >> complex, and NPD coupled with (and compensating for) an inferiority
> >> >> complex.
> >> >
> >> > Michael Pendragon in armchair psychiatrist mode, noted again.
> >> I don't like calling him an "armchair psychiatrist", which implies that
> >> he's a psyciatrist of some kind. He's simply a guy who read Freud and
> >> Jung decades ago, and what he remembers of their work is what he's
> >> re-imagined (in the same way he re-imagined /Atlas Shrugged/).
>
> > Everyone's memory re-imagines things, George. That's how memory works.
>
> > Your open hostility toward... everyone...
> Against you and your thug wannabe troll friends, you mean.

You're almost as delusional as he is.

Will Dockery wrote:

> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 10:12:22 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 10:07:46 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> > > > > > > > The mistake Karla Rogers wrote about that applies here.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I don't think I have to repeat it.
>> > > > > > > Okay, if you say so. Thanks for your input. Have a nice day. Go team.
>> > > > > > Have a nice day, Corey.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Yes, of course. That’s nice of you to say.
>> > > > > I plan to, because that’s just my way,
>> > > > > when someone says to have a nice day,
>> > > > > I do. Right now, I’m watching two teams play
>> > > > > on a football pitch, far, far away,
>> > > > > and when I say far, I mean Qatar.
>> > > > I saw you mention that you are watching the World Cup.
>> > > Go team.
>> > I saw about thirty seconds of the UGA vs Georgia Tech game yesterday, looked like everyone was having fun.
>> Well, there you go. Go team. Go sports.

> Spanish Bombs
> https://youtu.be/Ul0uJfhywW8

A true classic, great choice....

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-11-30 3:10 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5,
>>> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote: > On Wednesday, November
>>>> 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote: >> On
>>>> 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
>
>>> >>> Good one, ME! We don't
>>>> have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the
>>>> words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant
>>>> heaven. >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found
>>>> that stanza in >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the
>>>> reason you conjectured. >>> He could also relate very well to
>>>> "filthy." > > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say
>>>> that ME found that passage-
>>>> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet
>>>> again, of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In
>>>> this case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted
>>>> one of his faves.
>>
>>> Don't flatter yourself, Dance.
>>
>>> I find this piece of doggerel to be laughably atrocious.
>>
>>> I only remember it because it's "largely" autobiographical nature
>>> sheds a good deal of light on your psychological makeup.
>>
>>>> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr.
>>>> Zod's proclivities
>>>> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have
>>>> both given it far more attention. I guess that says something about
>>>> their "proclivities".
>>>> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
>>>> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt"
>>>> and was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.
>>
>>> It's in keeping with what we know of Stink's character (arrested for
>>> "indecent exposure," public urination, his "bunk buddy" relationship
>>> with Dirty Mike, his latent(?) homosexual adulation of
>>
>> Why do you lie and misrepresent so much, Michael Pendragon?
>>

> He is misrepresenting, but I don't think he's deliberately lying. The
> thing is, he is obviously a bright boy (I'd say his IQ is over 120),
> which means when he's he's constantly thinking and imagining, even when
> he's perceiving, listening, or reading. And I think he's incapable of
> distinguishing between what his perceptions and his imaginings. For him
> what he imagines is as much the "truth" as what he learns.

>>>> > Are you hearing voices or seeing strange lights?
>>>> None here, sorry.
>>
>>> True.  You suffer from paranoia, a persecution complex, a martyr
>>> complex, and NPD coupled with (and compensating for) an inferiority
>>> complex.
>>
>> Michael Pendragon in armchair psychiatrist mode, noted again.

> I don't like calling him an "armchair psychiatrist", which implies that
> he's a psyciatrist of some kind. He's simply a guy who read Freud and
> Jung decades ago, and what he remembers of their work is what he's
> re-imagined (in the same way he re-imagined /Atlas Shrugged/).

Or in Usenet terms:

"Making it up as he goes along."

:)

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned.. If someone
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> >> > >>> Not really.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Look it up.
> >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> >> > >
> >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> >> > >
> >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> >> > >
> >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
>
> > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
>
> > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
>
> My knowledge is fairly complete.
>
> I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse..
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > >> > >>> Not really.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me..
> > >> > >
> > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> >
> > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> >
> > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> >
> > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> >
> > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
>
> Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo..ca wrote:
> > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur....@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death..
> > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > >> > >>>
> > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous..
> > > >> > >>>
> > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > >
> > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > >
> > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > >
> > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > >
> > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> >
> > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> So, who is Robert's friend?
>
> If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur....@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > >> > >>>
> > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > >> > >>>
> > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > >
> > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > >
> > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > >
> > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > >
> > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > >
> > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > So, who is Robert's friend?
> >
> > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort.. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > >
> > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > >
> > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > >
> > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > >
> > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> If it is a true story, of course.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > >
> > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > >
> > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > If it is a true story, of course.
> Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs..
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage..
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > > >
> > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > > If it is a true story, of course.
> > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
> Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > > > If it is a true story, of course.
> > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
> > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
> Why should he?
>
> Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > >>> Not really.
> > >>>
> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > >>>
> > >>> Look it up.
> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > >
> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > >
> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > >
> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
>
> 🙂

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned.. If someone
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> >> > >>> Not really.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Look it up.
> >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> >> > >
> >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> >> > >
> >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> >> > >
> >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
>
> > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
>
> > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
>
> My knowledge is fairly complete.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:20:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:16:16 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:13:49 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:10:15 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:13:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:09:43 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote: :
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Not really.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> Look it up.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > > > > > > >> > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > > > > > > >> > to accept the judgement of "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > > > > > > > >> I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
> > > > > > > > > I've read all Jack Kerouac's published work, most of the writing of his friends and fellow Beats, and several biographies.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My knowledge is fairly complete.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I never met Kerouac, I was a child when he passed away, but I know of him, and his world.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> > > > > > > > I'd say that trumps having read all of his published books (reading an author's complete works is a prerequisite to becoming a scholar).
> > > > > > > So, who is Robert's friend?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If he's a Jack Kerouac scholar he probably has some of his thoughts online or in book form.
> > > > > > He may or may not. But having met Kerouac, lived in Kerouac's house, owned Kerouac's unpublished manuscript, puts him at a level of Kerouacian scholarship that you can only dream of.
> > > > > If it is a true story, of course.
> > > > Robert has never given us any reason not to trust him.
> > > Yes, I'm sure Robert will give more details about his friend, and where we can read his scholarly articles on Jack Kerouac.
> > Why should he?
> >
> > Neither he nor his friend need to prove anything to the likes of you.
> They need to prove it to the group, not just me.

Sure, Pendragon, Robert mentioned this Jack Kerouac scholar that he said he knows, so of course I and other members of the group would like to know more about the person.

HTH and HAND.

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 1:08:30 AM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 10:12:22 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 10:07:46 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> >> > > > > > > > The mistake Karla Rogers wrote about that applies here.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I don't think I have to repeat it.
> >> > > > > > > Okay, if you say so. Thanks for your input. Have a nice day. Go team.
> >> > > > > > Have a nice day, Corey.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Yes, of course. That’s nice of you to say.
> >> > > > > I plan to, because that’s just my way,
> >> > > > > when someone says to have a nice day,
> >> > > > > I do. Right now, I’m watching two teams play
> >> > > > > on a football pitch, far, far away,
> >> > > > > and when I say far, I mean Qatar.
> >> > > > I saw you mention that you are watching the World Cup.
> >> > > Go team.
> >> > I saw about thirty seconds of the UGA vs Georgia Tech game yesterday, looked like everyone was having fun.
> >> Well, there you go. Go team. Go sports.
>
> > Spanish Bombs
> > https://youtu.be/Ul0uJfhywW8
>
> A true classic, great choice....

I've been reading the book "We Are The Clash" by Mark Anderson and Ralph Heibutzki, and these songs have been on my mind.

Also, since yesterday was my friend Stan's birthday, this one:

My Friend Stan / Slade
https://youtu.be/YdQ3U4B2eBE

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:49:37 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Sure, Pendragon, Robert mentioned this Jack Kerouac scholar that he said he knows, so of course I and other members of the group would like to know more about the person.
>
> HTH and HAND.

What do you want to know, Will?