On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!

<yawn> That's nice.

<snip>

On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
> <yawn> That's nice.
>
> <snip>

See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!

On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:27 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 2:20:13 AM UTC-5, W-Dockery wrote:
> > Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 02:36:45 +0000, W-Dockery @news.novabbs.com
> > > (W-Dockery ) wrote:
> >
> > >>Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 01:50:36 +0000, W-Dockery @news.novabbs.com
> > >>> (W-Dockery ) wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>>Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > >>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >>>>>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> > Michael Pendragon <michaelmale> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> George Dance wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse..
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> When you say ?My? father?s house, ?By? George J. Dance,
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you?re talking about yourself.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, ?my? recommendation is to change the title of ?your? poem from
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ?My Father?s House? to ?Our Father?s House?, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. ?Our? Father?s House allows ?you? to represent
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and speak for ?your? kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, ?Our Father, who art in heaven??, that ?My? does not.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > > Not really.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > > Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > > Look it up.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > Yes he was; ut his drinking got more "extreme" afterward.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > " Kerouac had long dealt with a drinking problem, and even by age 26 it
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > occurred to him that he should cut back. On March 22, 1948, he wrote in
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > his journal, ?I started drinking at eighteen but that?s after eight
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > years of occasional boozing, I can?t physically take it any more, nor
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > mentally. It was at the age of eighteen, too, when melancholy and
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > indecision first came over me?there?s a fair connection there.?[4] Yet
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > his alcoholism reached new extremes after the publication of On the
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > Road. In addition to losing his treasured privacy, Jack was also shocked
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > by Neal Cassady?s arrest for possession of marijuana in 1958, for which
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > Neal served two years in a California prison.[5]"
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > > https://www.beatdom.com/death-within-a-chrysalis/#:~:text=Kerouac%20had%20long%20dealt%20with,it%20any%20more%2C%20nor%20mentally.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > > But, of course, where Robert goes off course is when he claims Jack Kerouac died because people "like me" when I was just a little boy when Kerouac died in 1969.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > Your reading proficiency deficiency and lack of nuance fluency is showing through
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > As you say, what you say just looks like your opinion...
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > Firstly, no can see your flawed logic..
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> There's nothing wrong with his logic, little flunkie. Kerouac did not blame his drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery", because he didn't even know who Will Dockery was. Nor would Bobby's "Kerouac scholar" have blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery," because he doesn't know who Will Dockery is, either. The only person who blamed Kerouac's drinking problem on "people like Will Dockery" was Bobby himself.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > Secondly, no one can trust your word, not after all the lies and misrepresentations you have been caught in, all the post editing you do, all the stuff that you say is wrong for others to do, but you do it.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> The Ashtroll tries IKYABWAI for the win.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >One doesn't need to know Donkey to blame something on people like him..
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >According to Robert's friend, Kerouac blamed his drinking problems on no-talent, wanna-be poets who wrote rambling, drug-addled thought fragments about their "Bharma-Dumb" lives and pointed to him as their guru.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >IOW: On people like our resident Donkey.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >HtH & HAND
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> Hey Spike, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> > I've never pretended to be a "Bharma-Dumb," and have certainly made no pretense to admiring Kerouac's writing. He holds the dubious honor of being one of the very few writers who book I put down after having only read the first chapter or two.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> >> Nasty weather in New Jersey, eh?
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> > I'm sure I wouldn't know. You might just as well ask me about the weather in Timbucktoo.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> We already know that you grew up in New Jersey since you've described life there many times, so you moved.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> HTH and HAND.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >> Yes, I grew up in Jersey. I haven't lived in New Jersey since December of 1991. Needless to say, I don't keep abreast of the daily weather conditions there.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >You're just over the state line, right?
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> One of the Oddfather's full headers shows that his posting host is in
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> Piscataway, N.J.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >> I am not certain how the posting host relates to the IP address.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >It's fools' gold for wannabe stalkers, Jake.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >Assuming that I'm not using a VPN, it will provide you with a very rough ideal of my position: Northeastern America.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >In "The White Goddess," Robert Graves explained how the names of gods were kept secret, because knowledge of a god's name gave one power over that god.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >I'm flattered to serve as the god that you're so desperately trying to unmask.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> But all of your other web sites indicate "New Jersey", and that
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> includes information that you, yourself, have supplied.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> You, your sockpuppets and the NancyGene ( Is that XX or XY?) are not
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> the only ones who can stalk.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> >> Does the XX eat at the Y?
> > >>>>>>>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >I don't own any websites, Jake.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >I was born in NJ, and my various online biographies correctly identify NJ as such.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >I certainly make no secret of that fact.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >The "Poets & Writers" bio that I'd previously posted a link for:
> > >>>>>>>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >https://www.pw.org/directory/writers/michael_m_pendragon
> > >>>>>>>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >clearly states that I was born in NJ, but currently (that is, at the time when said biography was written) reside in New York City.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >Also, as previously noted, the information recorded in that biography is no longer up to date.
> > >>>>>>>> >> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> >FYI: Finding publicly available information *that I've chosen to supply* does not constitute "stalking"... anymore than NancyGene or I could be called "stalkers" for following links you'd provided that showed your real name, your house, and your Jaguar.
> > >>>>>>>> >> I did not supply them in here. You and XY/XX had to dig for them. And
> > >>>>>>>> >> you both used them in a deleterious manner, and that is defamation.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >No. You posted the links. All we did was follow them.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> I know who you are and how to find you.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >You're a pathetically unconvincing liar, Jake.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >But even if you could find us, what are you going to do? Come to NJ (or wherever you think I live) and whine on my doorstep?
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >How many years has it been since you've stepped outside of your house?
> > >>>>>>>> Interesting that you have multiple personalities.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Where did you get that from, Jake?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I can imagine why you don't want to be found, Oddfather.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Imagine away. Your make-believe scenarios can only add more color to my legend.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>Your lies have most likely gotten you into serious trouble.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Your problem there , Bub, that I do not lie. Oh, I tell little white
> > >>>>> lies as everybody does, "Does this dress make me look fat?" Harmless
> > >>>>> lies to be polite.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Having said this, I fight back, and I fight back with a vengeance.. You
> > >>>>> get back what you give as far as I am concerned. You are nasty with
> > >>>>> me, I will be nastier with you.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>You pretend to be successful, and here you are on Facebook causing
> > >>>>>>trouble and mayhem. Normal and well-adjusted people don't do that,
> > >>>>>>Oddfather.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Sonny-boi, I am retired. Success is behind me and part of my personal
> > >>>>> history. It cannot be erased.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Try harder next time.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Well put, Mack.
> > >>
> > >>> Something about Pendragon, he is like a Republican who projects his
> > >>> own rackets onto others.
> > >>
> > >>Pendragon was a vocal Trump supporter in 2016, even wrote poetry that he interested for Trump's swearing in ceremonies.
> > >>
> > >>> Why do these berks accuse me of causing trouble when it is part of the
> > >>> record that I posted several poems when I first started to post in
> > >>> this group? No trouble, just poems.
> > >>
> > >>> Let me understand this: So I just started to cause trouble for no
> > >>> reason at all?
> > >>
> > >>> Are they that blind? Or is it part of their malicious game?
> > >>
> > >>Their obvious agenda is to drive you from the newsgroup, as we know.
> >
> > > Why should I stay? I am not a poet, and I don't have any poetry to
> > > offer and discuss.
> >
> > > Troll groups are everywhere on Usenet. This group has become boring,
> > > and Pendragon is the biggest bore of them all.
> >
> >
> > You have a point there, and Pendragon puts all that boredom across in his dreary, sing-song, seconded handed doggerel.
>
> > And so it goes.
> Oh yes it does go and what a victory it was for me to see that response from Douchery! Yes, for once I'm declaring victory-- I love how easily the "superior" fall and how easily plans came together made this too much like child's play.
> You didn't get sMack's point-- he said he wasn't a poet and called this group a troll group, finding it boring -- he is obviously just a spiteful troll looking for an interesting "troll" group!

Ash Wurthing wrote:

> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
>> <yawn> That's nice.
>>
>> <snip>

> See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!

You seem confused again, Ash.

🙂

On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 12:35:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Ash Wurthing wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
> >> <yawn> That's nice.
> >>
> >> <snip>
>
> > See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!
> You seem confused again, Ash.

When you constantly claim that everyone else is confused, it really ought to be telling you something.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 12:35:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Ash Wurthing wrote:
>>
>> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> >> > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
>> >> <yawn> That's nice.
>> >>
>> >> <snip>
>>
>> > See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!
>> You seem confused again, Ash.

> When you constantly claim that everyone else is confused, it really ought to be telling you something.

The best I can do is try to help clear up the confusion, Pendragon

HTH and HAND.

On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 1:50:15 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 12:35:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> >> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> >> > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
> >> >> <yawn> That's nice.
> >> >>
> >> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> > See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!
> >> You seem confused again, Ash.
>
> > When you constantly claim that everyone else is confused, it really ought to be telling you something.
> The best I can do is try to help clear up the confusion, Pendragon

That's not the logical conclusion one should draw.

Ash Wurthing wrote:

> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>>> > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
>>> <yawn> That's nice.
>>>
>>> <snip>

>
> See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Like I said, Ash seems confused again.

HTH and HAND.

On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:54:18 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
> > <yawn> That's nice.
> >
> > <snip>

> See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!

Not at first glance. . Who are this "they" that you're telling me about? And what do you actually "mean" about them?

On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 5:34:25 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:54:18 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > > > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
> > > <yawn> That's nice.
> > >
> > > <snip>
>
> > See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!
> Not at first glance. . Who are this "they" that you're telling me about? And what do you actually "mean" about them?

At first glance, I'd say that "they" would be you, your Donkey, his Stink, and Mack.

He is specifically referring to your "<yawn> That's nice" comment.

It's the sort of smug attitude you tend to adopt when you mistakenly believe you've got the upper hand.

George Dance wrote:

> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:54:18 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> > > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
>> > <yawn> That's nice.
>> >
>> > <snip>

>> See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!

> Not at first glance. . Who are this "they" that you're telling me about? And what do you actually "mean" about them?

Exactly, words matter, including names.

🙂

On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 5:05:15 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> George Dance wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:54:18 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> > > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
> >> > <yawn> That's nice.
> >> >
> >> > <snip>
>
> >> See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!
>
> > Not at first glance. . Who are this "they" that you're telling me about? And what do you actually "mean" about them?
> Exactly, words matter, including names.

WTF are you braying about, you constantly confused Donkey?

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 5:05:15 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> George Dance wrote:
>>
>> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:54:18 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> >> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> >> > > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
>> >> > <yawn> That's nice.
>> >> >
>> >> > <snip>
>>
>> >> See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!
>>
>> > Not at first glance. . Who are this "they" that you're telling me about? And what do you actually "mean" about them?
>> Exactly, words matter, including names.

> WTF are you

Deflection attempt noted.

🙂

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 7:35:12 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 5:05:15 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> George Dance wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:54:18 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> >> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> >> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> >> > > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
> >> >> > <yawn> That's nice.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > <snip>
> >>
> >> >> See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!
> >>
> >> > Not at first glance. . Who are this "they" that you're telling me about? And what do you actually "mean" about them?
> >> Exactly, words matter, including names.
>
> > WTF are you
> Deflection attempt noted.

WTF are you braying about, Donkey?

Ash was obviously referring to (and responding to) George.

How stupid can one Donkey be?

George Dance wrote:

> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!

> <yawn> That's nice.

> <snip>

Seconded.

🙂

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 7:35:12 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>
>> > On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 5:05:15 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> George Dance wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:54:18 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> >> >> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >> >> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> >> >> > > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
>> >> >> > <yawn> That's nice.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > <snip>
>> >>
>> >> >> See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!
>> >>
>> >> > Not at first glance. . Who are this "they" that you're telling me about? And what do you actually "mean" about them?
>> >> Exactly, words matter, including names.
>>
>> > WTF are you
>> Deflection attempt noted.

> WTF are you

You're confused again, Pendragon?

🙂

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 10:43:04 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 7:35:12 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 5:05:15 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> George Dance wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:54:18 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:44:57 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> >> >> > On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 8:33:26 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> >> >> > > I see that my foes have kept this thread burning for me!
> >> >> >> > <yawn> That's nice.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > <snip>
> >> >>
> >> >> >> See what I mean about them thinkin' they're superior!1!
> >> >>
> >> >> > Not at first glance. . Who are this "they" that you're telling me about? And what do you actually "mean" about them?
> >> >> Exactly, words matter, including names.
> >>
> >> > WTF are you
> >> Deflection attempt noted.
>
> > WTF are you
> You're confused again, Pendragon?

I'm afraid that I'm not conversant in Donkeyspew.

I know you're better at spewing monkey shit, Pendragon.

,🙂

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 10:58:11 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> I know you're better at spewing monkey shit, Pendragon.
>
> ,🙂

Sorry, Donkey.

I'm keeping this thread open in case George wishes to discuss his poem.

Bray elsewhere.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

>

> I'm keeping this thread open in case George wishes to discuss his poem.

I'm sure George will appreciate that, if it means you'll not be spamming more poems by you and T.S. Eliot on his thread.

:)

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 12:20:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I'm keeping this thread open in case George wishes to discuss his poem.
> I'm sure George will appreciate that, if it means you'll not be spamming more poems by you and T.S. Eliot on his thread.
>
> :)

Ha ha... you nailed it, Doc....

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:14:05 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote: :
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > >>> Not really.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Look it up.
> > > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > >
> > > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > >
> > > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > >
> > > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > to accept the judgement of a "Kerouac scholar"?
> > I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
>
Even if all that is true; it does not show that the "Kerouac scholar" ever claimed that Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like Will Dockery; and in fact Robert never claimed that was anything but his own opinion.

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 12:47:10 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:14:05 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > >>> Not really.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Look it up.
> > > > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > >
> > > > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > >
> > > > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > to accept the judgement of a "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> >
> Even if all that is true; it does not show that the "Kerouac scholar" ever claimed that Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like Will Dockery; and in fact Robert never claimed that was anything but his own opinion.
>
> > I'd say that trumps having read some of his books.
>
> It's the second-oldest way to position oneself as a Usenet authority in the pre-web era: to say that you have a friend who knows all about a subject.. (The oldest, of course, is saying that you yourself know all about a subject.)

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 12:47:10 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:14:05 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote: :
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
> > > > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
> > > > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
> > > > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
> > > > >>> Not really.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Look it up.
> > > > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
> > > > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
> > > > >
> > > > > No, not really, Robert.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
> > > > >
> > > > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
> > > > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
> > > > to accept the judgement of a "Kerouac scholar"?
> > > I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
> > Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
> >
> Even if all that is true; it does not show that the "Kerouac scholar" ever claimed that Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like Will Dockery; and in fact Robert never claimed that was anything but his own opinion.
>

George Dance wrote:

> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:14:05 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 7:23:43 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > On 2022-11-30 5:51 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 9:08:25 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail..com wrote:
>> > > >> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > >>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:25:12 AM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote: :
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:39:31 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Father's House
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my father's house, although
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man died thirteen years ago.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They said it would be quite all right
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To take a drive to see it now.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And built the whole thing (from a box),
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toiling after each full day's work.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped, though I was only six.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, here's the back door I would use
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And here's where I'd remove my shoes
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enter; there I'd leave my things
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this room I'd wash many a dish,
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be so many other places.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Outside, the garden that he grew
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I would work the summers through,
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While watching my friends run and play
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mysterious games I never knew.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one chair I was let to sit?
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (For boys can be such filthy things.)
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which, the corner where boys were put?
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, if I were a millionaire
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd buy my father's house, and there
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its flames would light up all the air.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Logos and other logoi, 2021
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so the poem tells a story of remembered abuse.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The extent to which the story in the poem reflects the
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true story of your life and memory is fundamentally
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to the reader except to the extent that your
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> life experience informs your ability to write emotionally
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> convincing stories that are of interest to other people.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say “My” father’s house, “By” George J. Dance,
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are going to think you’re talking about yourself.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, “my” recommendation is to change the title of “your” poem from
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> “My Father’s House” to “Our Father’s House”, and all of the relevant pronouns
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from singular to plural possessive. “Our” Father’s House allows “you” to represent
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speak for “your” kin, those who identify with the speaker, and also provides a
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle religious connotation, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”, that “My” does not.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for giving it so much thought and effort. I have to acknowledge
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> that.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Pluralizing all the pronouns would change the poem considerably, but one
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing it wouldn't change is the confusion you mentioned. If someone
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was a poem about my own father and childhood because it was
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> titled "My Father's House," they'd be just as likely to think that if it
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> were titled "Our Father's House".
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Except, of course, for that religious connotation; some might think it
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> was a poem about God. But it's not a poem about God, and that's an
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation I wouldn't want to encourage.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lose the parentheses.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I like them. They're both interruptions in the speaker's thought process.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you are the best judge of how your poem should be presented......
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Words of wisdom from a man who chooses to live
>> > > >>>>>>>>> Key word being "chooses".
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Correct. The key word is "chooses"
>> > > >>>>>>> And, as we all know, Zod chose the path of the Dharma Bum.
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> Do you really believe that a person who was truly following what you call "the "path of the Dharma Bum" would send a minute of their time and energy in a place like aapc?
>> > > >>>>> Jack Kerouac, maybe, probably not Gary Snyder.
>> > > >>>> Discovering that his most well known book spawned acolytes like you and Zod is the main reason why Jack Kerouac drank himself to death.
>> > > >>> Not really.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Jack Kerouac was a hard drinker long before he became famous.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Look it up.
>> > > >> I don't have to look it up, Will.
>> > > >> My best friend's parents bought Kerouac's Northport house from Kerouac himself and he's a Kerouac scholar. He met Kerouac, has an unpublished Kerouac manuscript that he found in the house. He and I have spent many hours discussing Kerouac's life and work. Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like you.
>> > > >
>> > > > No, not really, Robert.
>> > > >
>> > > > Your judgement of me is /not/ me, only your biased opinion of me.
>> > > >
>> > > Oh, but Will ... Bobby Rurro has a "friend". And the friend
>> > > coincidentally just happens to be a "Kerouac scholar". Are you refusing
>> > > to accept the judgement of a "Kerouac scholar"?
>> > I've been reading Jack Kerouac since 1973, so I know a bit about the man, myself.
>> Robert's friend met him, was(is?) living in his house, and owns an unpublished manuscript by Kerouac.
>>
> Even if all that is true; it does not show that the "Kerouac scholar" ever claimed that Kerouac drank himself to death because of people like Will Dockery; and in fact Robert never claimed that was anything but his own opinion.