On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 11:28:43 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:

> You better instead post for us a fresh she'r which satisfies the following requirement by FG:
>
> mutrib se yeh kah do k is aNdaaz se gaaye
> har dil pe lage choT si, har aaNkh bhar aaye!

bahut Khuub RK sahib. is vaqt jo she'r be_saaKhta mere zehn meN aa rahaa hai, voh Gulnaar Afreen kaa hai:

dil pareshaan hai 'Gulnaar' to maahaul udaas
ab zaruuri hai koi mutrib-e-Khush-Khuu aaye!

so maiN haazir huuN. ab dekhiye is par 'aah' hotii hai yaa 'vaah'. :-)

> yeh alag baat k hamaari muraad yahaaN gaane se nahiiN, she'r-go'ii se hai! :-)

jii maiN samajh gayi thii. vaise bhi gaane ke liye to mujhe kahiye bhi mat, mujhe phir apne Bengali sangeet masterji yaad aa jaate haiN jo mujh se kehte the "aap ki taal to sahiiH hai, sur par dhyaan diijiye". aur phir mujhe 'paDosan' movie meN Sunil Datt kaa character 'Bholaa' yaad aa jaata hai! :)

haaN, vaise aap chaaheN to gaane ki mehfil bhi sajaaii jaa sakti hai, apne Irfan sahib haiN naa. abhi chand roz qabl, baghair farmaish ke, 'she'r-o-naghma' vaale thread meN voh yeh gaanaa sunaa rahe the:

"maiN koii aisaa giit gaauN, k aarzu jagaauN, agar tum kaho" :-)

ab aap bataaiye, she'r suneN ge ya gaanaa, yaa phir donoN? :-))

> R.K.***

________Zoya

On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 10:28:43 PM UTC-6, Raj Kumar wrote:

<snip>

>
> mutrib se yeh kah do k is aNdaaz se gaaye
> har dil pe lage choT si, har aaNkh bhar aaye!
>
> yeh alag baat k hamaari muraad yahaaN gaane se nahiiN, she'r-go'ii se hai! :-)
>
> R.K.***

RK sahib,

As I have mentioned many times before, I read ALUP fairly regularly but, your (and your chosen) ashaar compel me to come out of my self-imposed hibernation to say ... Dang, that is a good sher!!! It then goes into my "private collection" which I quote at the next apt occasion. Believe me, a BIG percentage of those have come from you and Ali Minai sahib. May God bless you with many many healthy years!

Dinesh

P.S : Since you haven't mentioned the poet's name, I am assuming this one is yours?

On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 11:38:58 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> On Saturday, 4 September 2021 at 16:23:26 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:50:11 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> > > abhi Haal hi meN maiN ne RK Qais sahib kaa ek she'r sunaa, jo mere zehn meN aTak gayaa hai, sochaa aap sab ko bhi sunaati chaluuN:
> > >
> > > ghar meN ab a'afiyat se baiThe haiN
> > > saari dunyaa ko ham Khafaa kar ke
> > >
> > > ________Zoya :)
> > ***Correction:
> > 1. yeh she'r mera nahiiN, Allama Iqbal ka hai.
> > 2. is ke pahle misr'e meN lafz "ab" ki bajaaye "kis" hai ------ ghar meN kis 'aafiyat se baiThe haiN.
> >
> > R.K.***

> Raj Kumar SaaHib, do you know which book of Iqbal this shi3r belongs to?
>
> Naseer

***janaab Naseer sahib:

mujhe qat'an ilm nahiiN k yeh she'r Allama Iqbal ki kaun si kitaab meN se hai. jaisa k aap ke savaal se vaazeH hai, yeh she'r ho sakta hai AI ka ho hi na! ab aap puuri kahaani suniye.

kuchh baras pahle maiN ne aek Ghazal kahi thi, jis ka matl'a tha:

aap shaadaaN haiN intihaa kar ke
ham pashemaaN haiN ibtidaa kar ke

aur maqt'a tha:

kitni farHat se jii rahaa hai Qais
saari maKhluuq ko Khafaa kar ke

maiN ne ye Ghazal aek maHfil meN paRhii aur Dher saari daad vusuul kii. vahaaN aek sahib ne mujhe (aek taraf kar ke) kahaa, "Qais sahib, aap ka maqt'a to Iqbal ke is she'r se bhiR gayaa hai ----- yeh kah kar unhoN ne voh she'r paRhaa jo zer-e-baHs hai. yihii nahiiN, bal-k unhoN ne aek aur she'r usi Ghazal ka sunaaya, jo nihaayat dilchasp Thaihraa:

aaj tak hai shikast ka aHsaas
aap se arz-e-mudd'aa kar ke

meri nazar meN voh dono ash'aar Khuub the. maiN ne un sahib se yihii khaa k "dekhiye, Khayaalaat ka bhiR jaana ko'i ajab baat nahiiN hai. haaN, jab duusri taraf AI hoN to phir yahaaN mere liye jaa-e-Hairat bhi hai aur maqaam-e-faKhr bhi".
baat aa'ii ga'ii ho ga'ii ------------- until today! :-)

aap ko yaad hoga, Naseer sahib, k maiN ne aek aur she'r ko (more than once) AI se mansuub kiyaa tha aur, aap ke tavassut se, voh she'r kisi aur Iqbal-naami shaa'ir ka niklaa. ho sakta hai yeh ash'aar bhi unhiiN ke hoN --- yaa kisii teesre Iqbal ke hoN. ab yeh gutthii suljhaana to aap jise muHaqqiq ka kaam hai, Khaaksaar ka nahiiN hai. :-)

niyaaz-maNd, Raj Kumar

On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 9:01:14 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 11:28:43 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
>
> > You better instead post for us a fresh she'r which satisfies the following requirement by FG:
> >
> > mutrib se yeh kah do k is aNdaaz se gaaye
> > har dil pe lage choT si, har aaNkh bhar aaye!

> bahut Khuub RK sahib. is vaqt jo she'r be_saaKhta mere zehn meN aa rahaa hai, voh Gulnaar Afreen kaa hai:
>
> dil pareshaan hai 'Gulnaar' to maahaul udaas
> ab zaruuri hai koi mutrib-e-Khush-Khuu aaye!
>
> so maiN haazir huuN. ab dekhiye is par 'aah' hotii hai yaa 'vaah'. :-)

***she'r bahut achchha hai, ise paRh kar muNh se 'waah' hi nikal rahi hai. ab kyaa kiyaa jaaye? :-)

ba-har-Haal, is she'r ke pahle misr'e ne FG ke is mash_huur she'r ki yaad dilaa di hai:

raat bhi thii dhu'aaN dhu'aaN, Husn bhi thaa udaas udaas
dil ko kayee kahaaniyaaaN yaad si aa ke rah gayeeN

R.K.***

On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 6:10:11 PM UTC-7, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 10:28:43 PM UTC-6, Raj Kumar wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> > mutrib se yeh kah do k is aNdaaz se gaaye
> > har dil pe lage choT si, har aaNkh bhar aaye!
> >
> > yeh alag baat k hamaari muraad yahaaN gaane se nahiiN, she'r-go'ii se hai! :-)
> >
> > R.K.***

> RK sahib,
>
> As I have mentioned many times before, I read ALUP fairly regularly but, your (and your chosen) ash'aar compel me to come out of my self-imposed hibernation to say ... Dang, that is a good she'r!!! It then goes into my "private collection" which I quote at the next apt occasion. Believe me, a BIG percentage of those have come from you and Ali Minai sahib. May God bless you with many many healthy years!

***Dinesh sahib, yaad-aavari ke liye shukriya. janaab, yeh aap ki fayyaazi hai k aap hamesha meri izzat-afzaa'ii karte haiN aur mere kahe huye (yaa 'quote' kiye huye) ash'aar ki dil-o-jaan se saraahanaa karne meN pesh pesh rahte haiN -------jis ke liye maiN aap ka be-Hadd mamnuun huuN.***
> P.S : Since you haven't mentioned the poet's name, I am assuming this one is yours?

***aap ne Ghaur nahiiN kiyaa, maiN ne is she'r se ain pahle likhe gaye fiqre meN vaazeH kar diyaa tha k yeh she'r FG ka hai, jis se muraad Firaq Gorakhpuri hai. Khair, ab jaate jaate un ki isi Ghazal ka aek aur she'r suniye:

barsaat ki is raat meN, ai dost, tirii yaad
ik tez chhurii hai k utartii hi chalii jaaye

dekheN, ab yeh she'r aap ki "private collection" meN jaata hai yaa nahiiN. :-)

R.K.***

On Tuesday, 7 September 2021 at 04:45:54 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:

> ***Dinesh sahib, yaad-aavari ke liye shukriya. janaab, yeh aap ki fayyaazi hai k aap hamesha meri izzat-afzaa'ii karte haiN aur mere kahe huye (yaa 'quote' kiye huye) ash'aar ki dil-o-jaan se saraahanaa karne meN pesh pesh rahte haiN -------jis ke liye maiN aap ka be-Hadd mamnuun huuN.***

> R.K.***

Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.

Can you quote any Urdu shi3r in which the word "saraahanaa" is used as a noun? I am asking this question for a good reason and there is no "catch" or any other negative intent!:-) It's rather ironic that we had a discussion on a similar sounding word "sarhaanaa" / "sarhaane"

Naseer

janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.

On Monday, 6 September 2021 at 04:56:01 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 11:38:58 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> > On Saturday, 4 September 2021 at 16:23:26 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > > On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:50:11 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> > > > abhi Haal hi meN maiN ne RK Qais sahib kaa ek she'r sunaa, jo mere zehn meN aTak gayaa hai, sochaa aap sab ko bhi sunaati chaluuN:
> > > >
> > > > ghar meN ab a'afiyat se baiThe haiN
> > > > saari dunyaa ko ham Khafaa kar ke
> > > >
> > > > ________Zoya :)
> > > ***Correction:
> > > 1. yeh she'r mera nahiiN, Allama Iqbal ka hai.
> > > 2. is ke pahle misr'e meN lafz "ab" ki bajaaye "kis" hai ------ ghar meN kis 'aafiyat se baiThe haiN.
> > >
> > > R.K.***
>
> > Raj Kumar SaaHib, do you know which book of Iqbal this shi3r belongs to?
> >
> > Naseer
> ***janaab Naseer sahib:
>
> mujhe qat'an ilm nahiiN k yeh she'r Allama Iqbal ki kaun si kitaab meN se hai. jaisa k aap ke savaal se vaazeH hai, yeh she'r ho sakta hai AI ka ho hi na! ab aap puuri kahaani suniye.
>

dar-asl maiN yaqiin se to yih kah nahiiN saktaa thaa kih zer-i-baHs shi3r Iqbal kaa hai yaa nahiiN lekin un kaa kalaam paRhte vaqt yih shi3r merii nazar se kabhii guzraa nahiiN thaa. is kaa matlab yih bhii nahiiN kih maiN Iqbal ke har shi3r se vaaqif huuN!:-)

> kuchh baras pahle maiN ne aek Ghazal kahi thi, jis ka matl'a tha:
>
> aap shaadaaN haiN intihaa kar ke
> ham pashemaaN haiN ibtidaa kar ke

bahut xuub! vaah!

> aur maqt'a tha:
>
> kitni farHat se jii rahaa hai Qais
> saari maKhluuq ko Khafaa kar ke
>

baar-i-digar vaah! kyaa shi3r aap ne kahaa hai!

> maiN ne ye Ghazal aek maHfil meN paRhii aur Dher saari daad vusuul kii. vahaaN aek sahib ne mujhe (aek taraf kar ke) kahaa, "Qais sahib, aap ka maqt'a to Iqbal ke is she'r se bhiR gayaa hai ----- yeh kah kar unhoN ne voh she'r paRhaa jo zer-e-baHs hai. yihii nahiiN, bal-k unhoN ne aek aur she'r usi Ghazal ka sunaaya, jo nihaayat dilchasp Thaihraa:
>
> aaj tak hai shikast ka aHsaas
> aap se arz-e-mudd'aa kar ke
>
> meri nazar meN voh dono ash'aar Khuub the. maiN ne un sahib se yihii khaa k "dekhiye, Khayaalaat ka bhiR jaana ko'i ajab baat nahiiN hai. haaN, jab duusri taraf AI hoN to phir yahaaN mere liye jaa-e-Hairat bhi hai aur maqaam-e-faKhr bhi".
> baat aa'ii ga'ii ho ga'ii ------------- until today! :-)
>

apnii Ghazal ke ash3aar aur yih "Iqbal" ke ash3aar ham tak pahuNchaane ke liye bahut bahut shukriyah.

> aap ko yaad hoga, Naseer sahib, k maiN ne aek aur she'r ko (more than once) AI se mansuub kiyaa tha aur, aap ke tavassut se, voh she'r kisi aur Iqbal-naami shaa'ir ka niklaa. ho sakta hai yeh ash'aar bhi unhiiN ke hoN --- yaa kisii teesre Iqbal ke hoN. ab yeh gutthii suljhaana to aap jise muHaqqiq ka kaam hai, Khaaksaar ka nahiiN hai. :-)
>
> niyaaz-maNd, Raj Kumar

bi_lkul yaad nahiiN, janaab. kyaa achchaa hotaa agar Allah ta3aalaa aap aur Afzal SaaHib kii quvvat-i-yaad-daasht kaa ek baTaa solahvaaN Hissah hamaare nasiib bhii likh detaa!:-)

aap ne bi_lkul bajaa farmaayaa...yih Ghazal ek duusre Iqbal kii hai (Iqbal Azeem) aur is kaa ta3alluq ek tiisre Iqbal se hai (Iqbal bano)!:-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxSJuVxHKXc&ab_channel=myfavoritemusicmusic

Naseer

On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 10:19:22 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:

> > dil pareshaan hai 'Gulnaar' to maahaul udaas
> > ab zaruuri hai koi mutrib-e-Khush-Khuu aaye!

> ***she'r bahut achchha hai, ise paRh kar muNh se 'waah' hi nikal rahi hai. ab kyaa kiyaa jaaye? :-)

yeh to aasaan kaam hai RK sahib, bas 'waah' kiijiye, aur kyaa. :-))
> ba-har-Haal, is she'r ke pahle misr'e ne FG ke is mash_huur she'r ki yaad dilaa di hai:
>
> raat bhi thii dhu'aaN dhu'aaN, Husn bhi thaa udaas udaas
> dil ko kayee kahaaniyaaaN yaad si aa ke rah gayeeN

> R.K.***

chhoRiye RK sahib, baqaul Faraz:

voh kahaaniyaaN adhuuri, jo na ho sakeN gi puurii
unheN maiN bhi kyuN sunaauN? unheN tum bhi kyuN sunaao??

________Zoya

On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 12:39:20 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> On Tuesday, 7 September 2021 at 04:45:54 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
>
> > ***Dinesh sahib, yaad-aavari ke liye shukriya. janaab, yeh aap ki fayyaazi hai k aap hamesha meri izzat-afzaa'ii karte haiN aur mere kahe huye (yaa 'quote' kiye huye) ash'aar ki dil-o-jaan se saraahanaa karne meN pesh pesh rahte haiN -------jis ke liye maiN aap ka be-Hadd mamnuun huuN.***
> > R.K.***
>
> Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
>
> Can you quote any Urdu shi3r in which the word "saraahanaa" is used as a noun? I am asking this question for a good reason and there is no "catch" or any other negative intent!:-)

***janaab Naseer sahib:

If there was no "catch" or "negative intent" in your question, then why didn't you state right away the "good reason" for asking it?
May be, you will give that reason after listening to a she'r that meets your specific demand: :-)

mire kalaam meN ko'ii to baat hai, yaaro!
jo aaj us ne bhi merii saraahanaa kii hai***

It's rather ironic that we had a discussion on a similar sounding word "sarhaanaa" / "sarhaane"

***Frankly, I don't remember if we ever had a discussion on the word sarhaanaa/sarhaane.
haaN, aek baar lafz sirhaanaa/sirhaane par thoRi-bahut baHs zaruur hu'ii thii. LOL

mazaaq bar-taraf, lafz "saraahanaa" ka lafz "sar" se ko'ii ta'alluq nahiiN hai; agar hotaa to yeh lafz bhi "siraahanaa" hota! :-)

Raj Kumar***

On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 8:34:36 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> On Monday, 6 September 2021 at 04:56:01 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:

> > kuchh baras pahle maiN ne aek Ghazal kahi thi, jis ka matl'a tha:
> >
> > aap shaadaaN haiN intihaa kar ke
> > ham pashemaaN haiN ibtidaa kar ke

> bahut xuub! vaah!

> > aur maqt'a tha:
> >
> > kitni farHat se jii rahaa hai Qais
> > saari maKhluuq ko Khafaa kar ke

> baar-i-digar vaah! kyaa shi3r aap ne kahaa hai!

> > maiN ne ye Ghazal aek maHfil meN paRhii aur Dher saari daad vusuul kii. vahaaN aek sahib ne mujhe (aek taraf kar ke) kahaa, "Qais sahib, aap ka maqt'a to Iqbal ke is she'r se bhiR gayaa hai ----- yeh kah kar unhoN ne voh she'r paRhaa jo zer-e-baHs hai. yihii nahiiN, bal-k unhoN ne aek aur she'r usi Ghazal ka sunaaya, jo nihaayat dilchasp Thaihraa:
> >
> > aaj tak hai shikast ka aHsaas
> > aap se arz-e-mudd'aa kar ke
> >
> > meri nazar meN voh dono ash'aar Khuub the. maiN ne un sahib se yihii khaa k "dekhiye, Khayaalaat ka bhiR jaana ko'i ajab baat nahiiN hai. haaN, jab duusri taraf AI hoN to phir yahaaN mere liye jaa-e-Hairat bhi hai aur maqaam-e-faKhr bhi".
> > baat aa'ii ga'ii ho ga'ii ------------- until today! :-)

> apnii Ghazal ke ash3aar aur yih "Iqbal" ke ash3aar ham tak pahuNchaane ke liye bahut bahut shukriyah.

***janaab Naseer sahib:

mere apne ash'aar aur mere pesh-karda IA ke ash'aar aap ko pasaNd aaye, yeh mere liye nihaayat Khushii ki baat hai.***

> > aap ko yaad hoga, Naseer sahib, k maiN ne aek aur she'r ko (more than once) AI se mansuub kiyaa tha aur, aap ke tavassut se, voh she'r kisi aur Iqbal-naami shaa'ir ka niklaa. ho sakta hai yeh ash'aar bhi unhiiN ke hoN --- yaa kisii teesre Iqbal ke hoN. ab yeh gutthii suljhaana to aap jise muHaqqiq ka kaam hai, Khaaksaar ka nahiiN hai. :-)
> >

> bi_lkul yaad nahiiN, janaab. kyaa achchaa hotaa agar Allah ta3aalaa aap aur Afzal SaaHib kii quvvat-i-yaad-daasht kaa ek baTaa solahvaaN Hissah hamaare nasiib bhii likh detaa! :-)

***ko'ii baat nahiiN, agar aap ko yaad nahiiN to, chaliye, maiN yaad dilaaye deta huuN:

voh kyaa aaye, mirii Khalvat meN mai-Khaana chalaa aayaa
qadam larziida larziida, nazar Kh(w)aabeeda Kh(w)aabeeda

Remember?***

> aap ne bi_lkul bajaa farmaayaa...yih Ghazal ek duusre Iqbal kii hai (Iqbal Azeem) aur is kaa ta3alluq ek tiisre Iqbal se hai (Iqbal bano)! :-)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxSJuVxHKXc&ab_channel=myfavoritemusicmusic

***yeh hu'ii na baat, janaaab-e-man. sach puuchhiye to muHaqqiq hoN to aap jaise! :-)

ab aek zaruuri baat:

aap ne, is Ghazal ki binaa par, jo nayaa 'thread' shur'uu kiyaa hai, us ke unvaan meN "Iqbal Azeem" ki bajaaye "Aqbal Azeez" likkhaa gayaa hai. yeh Ghalati qadre saNjaada hai aur agar aap ise abhi se durust kar deN to achchha hoga. kahne ke matlab yeh k aap is 'thread' ko mansuuKh kar ke isi mazmuun ka aek aur 'thread', jis meN unvaan saHiiH ho, shuruu' kareN. mujhe is naye thread meN do-aek zaruuri baateN kahni haiN.

niyaaz-maNd, Raj Kumar***

On Tuesday, 7 September 2021 at 23:41:53 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 12:39:20 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 7 September 2021 at 04:45:54 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> >
> > > ***Dinesh sahib, yaad-aavari ke liye shukriya. janaab, yeh aap ki fayyaazi hai k aap hamesha meri izzat-afzaa'ii karte haiN aur mere kahe huye (yaa 'quote' kiye huye) ash'aar ki dil-o-jaan se saraahanaa karne meN pesh pesh rahte haiN -------jis ke liye maiN aap ka be-Hadd mamnuun huuN.***
> > > R.K.***
> >
> > Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
> >
> > Can you quote any Urdu shi3r in which the word "saraahanaa" is used as a noun? I am asking this question for a good reason and there is no "catch" or any other negative intent!:-)
> ***janaab Naseer sahib:
>
> If there was no "catch" or "negative intent" in your question, then why didn't you state right away the "good reason" for asking it?
> May be, you will give that reason after listening to a she'r that meets your specific demand: :-)
>
> mire kalaam meN ko'ii to baat hai, yaaro!
> jo aaj us ne bhi merii saraahanaa kii hai***

> Raj Kumar***

janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.

lagtaa hai kih yih shi3r janaab-i-Qais ne fi_lbadiih kahaa hai. agar aisaa nahiiN hu'aa to yaqiin-an is shi3r ke aur bhii bhaa'ii-band hoN ge jin se vuh Ghazal mukammal hotii ho gii jis kaa yih shi3r ek bichhRaa hu'aa fard hai! agar ho sake to baqiyah ash3aar bhii 3inaayat kar diijiye.

is bazm meN aap ke sivaa kisii aur shaxs ne yih lafz is tarH isti3maal nahiiN kiyaa. is kii bhii ko'ii nah ko'ii vajh ho gii.

Naseer

On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 2:15:56 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> On Tuesday, 7 September 2021 at 23:41:53 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > mire kalaam meN ko'ii to baat hai, yaaro!
> > jo aaj us ne bhi merii saraahanaa kii hai***
> > Raj Kumar***
> janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
>
> lagtaa hai kih yih shi3r janaab-i-Qais ne fi_lbadiih kahaa hai. agar aisaa nahiiN hu'aa to yaqiin-an is shi3r ke aur bhii bhaa'ii-band hoN ge jin se vuh Ghazal mukammal hotii ho gii jis kaa yih shi3r ek bichhRaa hu'aa fard hai! agar ho sake to baqiyah ash3aar bhii 3inaayat kar diijiye.

***janaab-e-man, yeh she'r mera nahiiN ho sakta kyuuN-k mujh Ghariib meN voh taab kahaaN jo mujh se aisa she'r kahlvaa paaye --- aur voh bhi fil-badii'a!

asl meN, yeh she'r Qais Adamabaadi ka hai aur maiN koshish kar rahaa huuN k mujhe kisi suurat un ki yeh puuri Ghazal mil jaaye taake maiN use aap par nichhaavar kar sakuuN!*** ;-)
> is bazm meN aap ke sivaa kisii aur shaxs ne yih lafz is tarH isti3maal nahiiN kiyaa. is kii bhii ko'ii nah ko'ii vajh ho gii.

***zaruur ho gi, bal-k is ki aek nahiiN --- ka'ii vujuuh ho sakti haiN. maslan,

aek to yeh k aisi "jiddat-taraazii" har kisi ke bas ki baat nahiiN hi.

duusri yeh k agar yeh lafz, ba-taur-e-noun, Platts meN nahiiN milta to zaruuri nahiiN k yeh lafz matruuk hai.

teesri yeh k maiN ne apne do Hindi-daan as_Haab se raaye li hai aur un ka kahna hai k lafz "saraahnaa", batur-e-noun, aam bol chaal ka Hissa hai. Just like ---- paalnaa, upaasnaa, etc. goyaa, yeh alfaaz 'verb' aur 'noun' dono suuratoN meN ravaa haiN.

to yeh rahaa mera javaab, Naseer sahib, aage aap maalik haiN.

Raj Kumar***

On Monday, 13 September 2021 at 04:20:53 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 2:15:56 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 7 September 2021 at 23:41:53 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
>
> > > mire kalaam meN ko'ii to baat hai, yaaro!
> > > jo aaj us ne bhi merii saraahanaa kii hai***
> > > Raj Kumar***
>
> > janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
> >
> > lagtaa hai kih yih shi3r janaab-i-Qais ne fi_lbadiih kahaa hai. agar aisaa nahiiN hu'aa to yaqiin-an is shi3r ke aur bhii bhaa'ii-band hoN ge jin se vuh Ghazal mukammal hotii ho gii jis kaa yih shi3r ek bichhRaa hu'aa fard hai! agar ho sake to baqiyah ash3aar bhii 3inaayat kar diijiye.
> ***janaab-e-man, yeh she'r mera nahiiN ho sakta kyuuN-k mujh Ghariib meN voh taab kahaaN jo mujh se aisa she'r kahlvaa paaye --- aur voh bhi fil-badii'a!
>
> asl meN, yeh she'r Qais Adamabaadi ka hai aur maiN koshish kar rahaa huuN k mujhe kisi suurat un ki yeh puuri Ghazal mil jaaye taake maiN use aap par nichhaavar kar sakuuN!*** ;-)
> > is bazm meN aap ke sivaa kisii aur shaxs ne yih lafz is tarH isti3maal nahiiN kiyaa. is kii bhii ko'ii nah ko'ii vajh ho gii.
> ***zaruur ho gi, bal-k is ki aek nahiiN --- ka'ii vujuuh ho sakti haiN. maslan,
>
> aek to yeh k aisi "jiddat-taraazii" har kisi ke bas ki baat nahiiN hi.
>
> duusri yeh k agar yeh lafz, ba-taur-e-noun, Platts meN nahiiN milta to zaruuri nahiiN k yeh lafz matruuk hai.
>
> teesri yeh k maiN ne apne do Hindi-daan as_Haab se raaye li hai aur un ka kahna hai k lafz "saraahnaa", batur-e-noun, aam bol chaal ka Hissa hai. Just like ---- paalnaa, upaasnaa, etc. goyaa, yeh alfaaz 'verb' aur 'noun' dono suuratoN meN ravaa haiN.
>
> to yeh rahaa mera javaab, Naseer sahib, aage aap maalik haiN.
>
> Raj Kumar***

muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai.

maiN ne yahii sochaa thaa kih yih shi3r kisii 3adam-aabaadii shaa3ir hii kaa gaa kyoNkih jo Urdu shaa3ir is janaan-i-faanii meN haiN aur is se ho guzre haiN, unhoN ne abhii tak is lafz (saraahanaa) ko ba-taur-i-ism isti3maal nahiiN kiyaa.

ab aap kii vujuuh kii jaanib.

1) jiddat-taraazii ek bahut achchhii chiiz hai aur maiN is silsile meN aap ko daad detaa huuN.

2) aap se is baat par bhii muttafiq huuN. lekin Platts meN is kaa shaamil nah honaa ma3naa-xez hai.

3) Hindii-daanoN kii isnaad Urdu par laaguu nahiiN ho saktii. mu3aaf kiijiye gaa. is lafz kii sanad aap ko kisii Urdu shaa3ir ke kalaam se pesh karnaa ho gii.

Now to the reasoning. You will no doubt know that within English language there is a well known book called "Usage and Abusage" by Eric Partridge. A book on similar lines in Urdu is by Shansur Rahman Faruqi under the title of "LuGhaat-i-rozmarrah". Within the pages of this book is a piece on this word and he does not consider the noun usage as an Urdu usage. Hence my query.. If you wish, I can quote what he says.

By the way, Raj Kumar SaaHib, is the word as you wrote it "fil-badii'a" or "fi_lbadiiha(h)". In other words....فی البدیع or فی البدیہ , the latter normally written as فی البدیہہ?

Naseer

On Monday, 13 September 2021 at 04:20:53 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 2:15:56 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 7 September 2021 at 23:41:53 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
>
> > > mire kalaam meN ko'ii to baat hai, yaaro!
> > > jo aaj us ne bhi merii saraahanaa kii hai***
> > > Raj Kumar***
>
> > janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
> >
> > lagtaa hai kih yih shi3r janaab-i-Qais ne fi_lbadiih kahaa hai. agar aisaa nahiiN hu'aa to yaqiin-an is shi3r ke aur bhii bhaa'ii-band hoN ge jin se vuh Ghazal mukammal hotii ho gii jis kaa yih shi3r ek bichhRaa hu'aa fard hai! agar ho sake to baqiyah ash3aar bhii 3inaayat kar diijiye.
> ***janaab-e-man, yeh she'r mera nahiiN ho sakta kyuuN-k mujh Ghariib meN voh taab kahaaN jo mujh se aisa she'r kahlvaa paaye --- aur voh bhi fil-badii'a!
>
> asl meN, yeh she'r Qais Adamabaadi ka hai aur maiN koshish kar rahaa huuN k mujhe kisi suurat un ki yeh puuri Ghazal mil jaaye taake maiN use aap par nichhaavar kar sakuuN!*** ;-)
> > is bazm meN aap ke sivaa kisii aur shaxs ne yih lafz is tarH isti3maal nahiiN kiyaa. is kii bhii ko'ii nah ko'ii vajh ho gii.
> ***zaruur ho gi, bal-k is ki aek nahiiN --- ka'ii vujuuh ho sakti haiN. maslan,
>
> aek to yeh k aisi "jiddat-taraazii" har kisi ke bas ki baat nahiiN hi.
>
> duusri yeh k agar yeh lafz, ba-taur-e-noun, Platts meN nahiiN milta to zaruuri nahiiN k yeh lafz matruuk hai.
>
> teesri yeh k maiN ne apne do Hindi-daan as_Haab se raaye li hai aur un ka kahna hai k lafz "saraahnaa", batur-e-noun, aam bol chaal ka Hissa hai. Just like ---- paalnaa, upaasnaa, etc. goyaa, yeh alfaaz 'verb' aur 'noun' dono suuratoN meN ravaa haiN.
>
> to yeh rahaa mera javaab, Naseer sahib, aage aap maalik haiN.
>
> Raj Kumar***

muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai.

maiN ne yahii sochaa thaa kih yih shi3r kisii 3adam-aabaadii shaa3ir hii kaa ho gaa kyoNkih jo Urdu shaa3ir is jahaan-i-faanii meN haiN aur is se ho guzre haiN, unhoN ne abhii tak is lafz (saraahanaa) ko ba-taur-i-ism isti3maal nahiiN kiyaa.

ab aap kii vujuuh kii jaanib.

1) jiddat-taraazii ek bahut achchhii chiiz hai aur maiN is silsile meN aap ko daad detaa huuN.

2) aap se is baat par bhii muttafiq huuN. lekin Platts meN is kaa shaamil nah honaa ma3naa-xez zaruur hai.

3) Hindii-daanoN kii isnaad Urdu par laaguu nahiiN ho saktii. mu3aaf kiijiye gaa. is lafz kii sanad aap ko kisii Urdu shaa3ir ke kalaam se pesh karnaa ho gii.

Now to the reasoning. You will no doubt know that within English language there is a well-known book called "Usage and Abusage" by Eric Partridge. A book on similar lines in Urdu is by Shamsur Rahman Faruqi under the title of "LuGhaat-i-rozmarrah". Within the pages of this book is a piece on this word and he does not consider the noun usage as an Urdu usage. Hence my query.. If you wish, I can quote what he says.

By the way, Raj Kumar SaaHib, is the word as you wrote it "fil-badii'a" or "fi_lbadiiha(h)". In other words....فی البدیع or فی البدیہ , the latter normally written as فی البدیہہ?

Naseer

Friends,

Early afternoon yesterday, when I was feeling kind of gloomy listening to the alerts about the impending tropical storm about to hit our area, my phone rang. It was my friend, the eminent poet Amjad Islam Amjad sahib. He read two of his latest ghazals to me. I did not get a chance to write them down because I was focussed on listening.

Amjad sahib has promised that he will ask his son to send the written version of the ghazals to me. Meantime, let me share a couple of asha'ar that I remember, one of these has a rather unexpected contemporary qaafia. This ghazal is in the same bahr as Amjad sahib's famous ghazal:
"voh jo mil gayaa use yaad rakh, jo nahiiN milaa use bhhul jaa"

aaj ke asha'ar:

kisi raah meN, kisi moR par, maiN thakaa nahiiN, maiN rukaa nahiiN
tire Khwaab the mire hamsafar, miri raah_bar tiri yaad thii

sar-e-aam rakhte haiN khol kar voh jo vaqa'ie the chhupe hue
nahiiN vaqt saa koi saaf_go, baRi bad_lihaaz hai history!

__________Zoya

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 12:05:16 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> Friends,
>
> Early afternoon yesterday, when I was feeling kind of gloomy listening to the alerts about the impending tropical storm about to hit our area, my phone rang. It was my friend, the eminent poet Amjad Islam Amjad sahib. He read two of his latest ghazals to me. I did not get a chance to write them down because I was focussed on listening.
>
> Amjad sahib has promised that he will ask his son to send the written version of the ghazals to me. Meantime, let me share a couple of asha'ar that I remember, one of these has a rather unexpected contemporary qaafia. This ghazal is in the same bahr as Amjad sahib's famous ghazal:
> "voh jo mil gayaa use yaad rakh, jo nahiiN milaa use bhhul jaa"
>
> aaj ke asha'ar:
>
> kisi raah meN, kisi moR par, maiN thakaa nahiiN, maiN rukaa nahiiN
> tire Khwaab the mire hamsafar, miri raah_bar tiri yaad thii
>
> sar-e-aam rakhte haiN khol kar voh jo vaqa'ie the chhupe hue
> nahiiN vaqt saa koi saaf_go, baRi bad_lihaaz hai history!
>
> __________Zoya

“sar-e-aam rakhtaa hai khol kar, wo jo waaqiye thay Chhupe hu’e
nahiiN waqt saa ko’ii saaf-go, baRi bad-lihaaz hai history!”
…………………………………………………………………
Waa..h! Zoya ji! Khuub she’r darj kiyaa hai aap ne!
( shaa’ir kaa naam bhi bataa dete to achChhaa hotaa.)
🙏
=========================================

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 12:58:21 PM UTC-5, B.G. M. wrote:

> “sar-e-aam rakhtaa hai khol kar, wo jo waaqiye thay Chhupe hu’e
> nahiiN waqt saa ko’ii saaf-go, baRi bad-lihaaz hai history!”
> …………………………………………………………………
> Waa..h! Zoya ji! Khuub she’r darj kiyaa hai aap ne!
> ( shaa’ir kaa naam bhi bataa dete to achChhaa hotaa.)
> 🙏
> =========================================
BGM sahib,

I am so sorry it is not obvious from my original post, yeh she'r Amjad Islam Amjad sahib ki usii taazah ghazal kaa hai jo unhoN ne mujhe kal sunaayi thii. voh yeh bhi keh rahe the k is she'r meN unheN 'history' se behtar aur koii qaafia nahiiN lagaa. I agree, I think it is a perfect fit and makes this she'r special.

I will share the complete ghazal when I get it.

______Zoya

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 2:55:47 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 12:58:21 PM UTC-5, B.G. M. wrote:
>
> > “sar-e-aam rakhtaa hai khol kar, wo jo waaqiye thay Chhupe hu’e
> > nahiiN waqt saa ko’ii saaf-go, baRi bad-lihaaz hai history!”
> > …………………………………………………………………
> > Waa..h! Zoya ji! Khuub she’r darj kiyaa hai aap ne!
> > ( shaa’ir kaa naam bhi bataa dete to achChhaa hotaa.)
> > 🙏
> > =========================================> BGM sahib,
>
> I am so sorry it is not obvious from my original post, yeh she'r Amjad Islam Amjad sahib ki usii taazah ghazal kaa hai jo unhoN ne mujhe kal sunaayi thii. voh yeh bhi keh rahe the k is she'r meN unheN 'history' se behtar aur koii qaafia nahiiN lagaa. I agree, I think it is a perfect fit and makes this she'r special.
>

> I will share the complete ghazal when I get it.
>
> ______Zoya

“…

> I will share the complete ghazal when I get it.”

👍🙏💐

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 8:27:42 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> On Monday, 13 September 2021 at 04:20:53 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 2:15:56 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, 7 September 2021 at 23:41:53 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:
> >
> > > > mire kalaam meN ko'ii to baat hai, yaaro!
> > > > jo aaj us ne bhi merii saraahanaa kii hai***
> > > > Raj Kumar***
> >
> > > janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
> > >
> > > lagtaa hai kih yih shi3r janaab-i-Qais ne fi_lbadiih kahaa hai. agar aisaa nahiiN hu'aa to yaqiin-an is shi3r ke aur bhii bhaa'ii-band hoN ge jin se vuh Ghazal mukammal hotii ho gii jis kaa yih shi3r ek bichhRaa hu'aa fard hai! agar ho sake to baqiyah ash3aar bhii 3inaayat kar diijiye.
> > ***janaab-e-man, yeh she'r mera nahiiN ho sakta kyuuN-k mujh Ghariib meN voh taab kahaaN jo mujh se aisa she'r kahlvaa paaye --- aur voh bhi fil-badii'a!
> >
> > asl meN, yeh she'r Qais Adamabaadi ka hai aur maiN koshish kar rahaa huuN k mujhe kisi suurat un ki yeh puuri Ghazal mil jaaye taake maiN use aap par nichhaavar kar sakuuN!*** ;-)
> > > is bazm meN aap ke sivaa kisii aur shaxs ne yih lafz is tarH isti3maal nahiiN kiyaa. is kii bhii ko'ii nah ko'ii vajh ho gii.
> > ***zaruur ho gi, bal-k is ki aek nahiiN --- ka'ii vujuuh ho sakti haiN. maslan,
> >
> > aek to yeh k aisi "jiddat-taraazii" har kisi ke bas ki baat nahiiN hi.
> >
> > duusri yeh k agar yeh lafz, ba-taur-e-noun, Platts meN nahiiN milta to zaruuri nahiiN k yeh lafz matruuk hai.
> >
> > teesri yeh k maiN ne apne do Hindi-daan as_Haab se raaye li hai aur un ka kahna hai k lafz "saraahnaa", batur-e-noun, aam bol chaal ka Hissa hai. Just like ---- paalnaa, upaasnaa, etc. goyaa, yeh alfaaz 'verb' aur 'noun' dono suuratoN meN ravaa haiN.
> >
> > to yeh rahaa mera javaab, Naseer sahib, aage aap maalik haiN.
> >
> > Raj Kumar***

------------------

> muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai.
>
> maiN ne yahii sochaa thaa kih yih shi3r kisii 3adam-aabaadii shaa3ir hii kaa ho gaa kyoNkih jo Urdu shaa3ir is jahaan-i-faanii meN haiN aur is se ho guzre haiN, unhoN ne abhii tak is lafz (saraahanaa) ko ba-taur-i-ism isti3maal nahiiN kiyaa.
>
> ab aap kii vujuuh kii jaanib.
>
> 1) jiddat-taraazii ek bahut achchhii chiiz hai aur maiN is silsile meN aap ko daad detaa huuN.

***aap ki daad qubuul-e-Khaatir hu'ii. bahut bahut shukriya, Naseer sahib.***

> 2) aap se is baat par bhii muttafiq huuN. lekin Platts meN is kaa shaamil nah honaa ma3naa-xez zaruur hai.

***jii haaN, aur Platts meN lafz "sarhaanaa" bhi to nahiiN tha; goyaa, voh baat bhi to ma'ani-Khez thi naa?*** :-)
> 3) Hindii-daanoN kii isnaad Urdu par laaguu nahiiN ho saktii. mu3aaf kiijiye gaa. is lafz kii sanad aap ko kisii Urdu shaa3ir ke kalaam se pesh karnaa ho gii.

***aap inti jaldi bhuul gaye --- Huzuur, voh sanad to maiN aek Urdu shaa'ir Qais Adamabadi ke aek she'r ke Havaale se de hi chukaa huuN***. :-)
> Now to the reasoning. You will no doubt know that within English language there is a well-known book called "Usage and Abusage" by Eric Partridge. A book on similar lines in Urdu is by Shamsur Rahman Faruqi under the title of "LuGhaat-i-rozmarrah". Within the pages of this book is a piece on this word and he does not consider the noun usage as an Urdu usage. Hence my query. If you wish, I can quote what he says.

***aap yeh zaHmat mat gavaaraa kareN kyuuN-k ----- "maiN jaantaa huuN tum jo likho ge javaab meN"!*** LOL
> By the way, Raj Kumar SaaHib, is the word as you wrote it "fil-badii'a" or "fi_lbadiiha(h)". In other words....فی البدیع or فی البدیہ , the latter normally written as فی البدیہہ?

***is mu'aamale ki chhaan-been bhi zaruur kii jaaye gi, aap zaraa Hausala rakhiye.

Raj Kumar***

na Hariif-e-jaaN na shariik-e-gham, shab-e-intizaar koii to ho
kise bazm-e-shauq meN laayeN ham, dil-e-beqaraar koii to ho

yeh udaas udaas se baam-o-dar, yeh ujaaR ujaaR si rahguzar
chalo ham nahiiN, na sahii magar sar-e-kuu-e-yaar koii to ho!

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 8:04:11 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> na Hariif-e-jaaN na shariik-e-gham, shab-e-intizaar koii to ho
> kise bazm-e-shauq meN laayeN ham, dil-e-beqaraar koii to ho
>
> yeh udaas udaas se baam-o-dar, yeh ujaaR ujaaR si rahguzar
> chalo ham nahiiN, na sahii magar sar-e-kuu-e-yaar koii to ho!

***
maiN zaraa aaNkh se ojhal huuN magar huuN to sahii
de ke aavaaz kisii vaqt bulaa lo mujh ko
[RK Qais]
***

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 11:35:03 AM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:

> maiN zaraa aaNkh se ojhal huuN magar huuN to sahii
> de ke aavaaz kisii vaqt bulaa lo mujh ko
> [RK Qais]

ham to kitnoN ko mahjabiiN kehte
aap haiN, is liye nahiiN kehte! :-)

ik vehm naheeN besh miri hasti-e-mauhoom
is par bhi tiri khaatir-e-naazuk pe garaaN hooN
اک وہم نہیں بیش مری ہستی مو ہوم
اس پر بھی تری خاطر نازک پہ گراں ہوں

muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, tasliimaat.

> ------------------
> > muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai.
> >
> > maiN ne yahii sochaa thaa kih yih shi3r kisii 3adam-aabaadii shaa3ir hii kaa ho gaa kyoNkih jo Urdu shaa3ir is jahaan-i-faanii meN haiN aur is se ho guzre haiN, unhoN ne abhii tak is lafz (saraahanaa) ko ba-taur-i-ism isti3maal nahiiN kiyaa.
> >
> > ab aap kii vujuuh kii jaanib.
> >
> > 1) jiddat-taraazii ek bahut achchhii chiiz hai aur maiN is silsile meN aap ko daad detaa huuN.
> ***aap ki daad qubuul-e-Khaatir hu'ii. bahut bahut shukriya, Naseer sahib..***

> > 2) aap se is baat par bhii muttafiq huuN. lekin Platts meN is kaa shaamil nah honaa ma3naa-xez zaruur hai.
> ***jii haaN, aur Platts meN lafz "sarhaanaa" bhi to nahiiN tha; goyaa, voh baat bhi to ma'ani-Khez thi naa?*** :-)

lekin Raj Kumar SaaHib, maiN ne is "gutthii" ko is laRii kii aaxirii post meN suljhaa diyaa thaa. yih alag baat hai kih aap ne is par ko'ii tabsirah nahiiN kiyaa.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/dEmK1YhhC1A/m/vykNsnnNAAAJ

> > 3) Hindii-daanoN kii isnaad Urdu par laaguu nahiiN ho saktii. mu3aaf kiijiye gaa. is lafz kii sanad aap ko kisii Urdu shaa3ir ke kalaam se pesh karnaa ho gii.
> ***aap inti jaldi bhuul gaye --- Huzuur, voh sanad to maiN aek Urdu shaa'ir Qais Adamabadi ke aek she'r ke Havaale se de hi chukaa huuN***. :-)

> > Now to the reasoning. You will no doubt know that within English language there is a well-known book called "Usage and Abusage" by Eric Partridge. A book on similar lines in Urdu is by Shamsur Rahman Faruqi under the title of "LuGhaat-i-rozmarrah". Within the pages of this book is a piece on this word and he does not consider the noun usage as an Urdu usage. Hence my query. If you wish, I can quote what he says.

> ***aap yeh zaHmat mat gavaaraa kareN kyuuN-k ----- "maiN jaantaa huuN tum jo likho ge javaab meN"!*** LOL

> > By the way, Raj Kumar SaaHib, is the word as you wrote it "fil-badii'a" or "fi_lbadiiha(h)". In other words....فی البدیع or فی البدیہ , the latter normally written as فی البدیہہ?

> ***is mu'aamale ki chhaan-been bhi zaruur kii jaaye gi, aap zaraa Hausala rakhiye.
>

kab tak Hausalah rakhuuN janaab?

> Raj Kumar***

Naseer

On Friday, October 1, 2021 at 11:29:09 AM UTC-5, Shoaib Tanvir wrote:
> ik vehm naheeN besh miri hasti-e-mauhoom
> is par bhi tiri khaatir-e-naazuk pe garaaN hooN

Faiz zindah raheN vo haiN to sahii
kya huaa gar vafa_shi'aar nahiiN :)