Again like I said earlier, you're wrong, Pendragon, you shit spewing little monkey.

I wrote "Karma Bombs", every word. No plagiarism.

I wrote "Shambles", every word. No plagiarism.

And, again, Michael Pendragon, why do you lie and misrepresent so much, you shit spewing little monkey?

HTH and HAND, monkey.

🙂

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> Again like I said earlier, you're wrong, Pendragon, you shit spewing little monkey.
> I wrote "Karma Bombs", every word. No plagiarism.
>
> I wrote "Shambles", every word. No plagiarism.
>
> And, again, Michael Pendragon, why do you lie and misrepresent so much, you shit spewing little monkey?
> HTH and HAND, monkey.

Pen is just playing stupid as he so often does....

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:51:12 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> You're a stupid little monkey, Michael Pendragon.
>
> For the sixth time, I wrote the poems, there's no way that they could be "plagiarism", Pendragon, you stupid little monkey troll.
>
> And so it goes.

Answer the question, deceitfully deflective Donkey:

Are you denying that Jim Senetto and Michael Cook made any changes to you poem in any way, shape or form?

Before you answer, remember that both are archived.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:24:40 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> > Again like I said earlier, you're wrong, Pendragon, you shit spewing little monkey.
> > I wrote "Karma Bombs", every word. No plagiarism.
> >
> > I wrote "Shambles", every word. No plagiarism.
> >
> > And, again, Michael Pendragon, why do you lie and misrepresent so much, you shit spewing little monkey?
> > HTH and HAND, monkey.
> Pen is just playing stupid as he so often does....

Pendragon is showing how much he emulates PJR.

🙂

Will Dockery wrote:

> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:24:40 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >
>> > Again like I said earlier, you're wrong, Pendragon, you shit spewing little monkey.
>> > I wrote "Karma Bombs", every word. No plagiarism.
>> >
>> > I wrote "Shambles", every word. No plagiarism.
>> >
>> > And, again, Michael Pendragon, why do you lie and misrepresent so much, you shit spewing little monkey?
>> > HTH and HAND, monkey.
>> Pen is just playing stupid as he so often does....

> Pendragon is showing how much he emulates PJR.

> 🙂

Voodoo Boy did love to slobber all over Peter... ha ha.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:54:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:24:40 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >
> > > Again like I said earlier, you're wrong, Pendragon, you shit spewing little monkey.
> > > I wrote "Karma Bombs", every word. No plagiarism.
> > >
> > > I wrote "Shambles", every word. No plagiarism.
> > >
> > > And, again, Michael Pendragon, why do you lie and misrepresent so much, you shit spewing little monkey?
> > > HTH and HAND, monkey.
> > Pen is just playing stupid as he so often does....
> Pendragon is showing how much he emulates PJR.

Answer the question, deceitfully deflective Donkey:

Are you denying that Jim Senetto and Michael Cook made any changes to you poem in any way, shape or form?

Before you answer, remember that both are archived.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:54:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:24:40 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >
> > > Again like I said earlier, you're wrong, Pendragon, you shit spewing little monkey.
> > > I wrote "Karma Bombs", every word. No plagiarism.
> > >
> > > I wrote "Shambles", every word. No plagiarism.
> > >
> > > And, again, Michael Pendragon, why do you lie and misrepresent so much, you shit spewing little monkey?
> > > HTH and HAND, monkey.
> > Pen is just playing stupid as he so often does....
> Pendragon is showing how much he emulates PJR.
>
> 🙂

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:54:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:24:40 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> > On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> > > Again, like I said earlier, you're wrong, Pendragon, you shit spewing little monkey.
>> > > I wrote "Karma Bombs", every word. No plagiarism.
>> > >
>> > > I wrote "Shambles", every word. No plagiarism.
>> > >
>> > > And, again, Michael Pendragon, why do you lie and misrepresent so much, you shit spewing little monkey?
>> > > HTH and HAND, monkey.
>> > Pen is just playing stupid as he so often does....
>> Pendragon is showing how much he emulates PJR.

>

> Are you denying that Jim Senetto and Michael Cook made any changes to you poem in any way, shape or form?

I'm not using any versions either Cook or Senetto adapted from my writing.

HTH and HAND.

General-Zod wrote:

> Will Dockery wrote:

>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:24:40 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Again like I said earlier, you're wrong, Pendragon, you shit spewing little monkey.
>>> > I wrote "Karma Bombs", every word. No plagiarism.
>>> >
>>> > I wrote "Shambles", every word. No plagiarism.
>>> >
>>> > And, again, Michael Pendragon, why do you lie and misrepresent so much, you shit spewing little monkey?
>>> > HTH and HAND, monkey.
>>> Pen is just playing stupid as he so often does....

>> Pendragon is showing how much he emulates PJR.

>

> Voodoo Boy did love to slobber all over Peter... ha ha.

Yes, that's archived.

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:17:27 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> >
>
> > You stole Michael Cook's rewrite of "Karma Bombs," and you stole Jim's edit of your "Shambles" post, so the plagiarism
> You are a stupider fool than I thought, Pen, in no way are those poems plagiarized, Doc WROTE them both, word for word...!

He sure doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the word plagiarism.

HTH and HAND.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 7:41:27 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:17:27 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > You stole Michael Cook's rewrite of "Karma Bombs," and you stole Jim's edit of your "Shambles" post, so the plagiarism
> > You are a stupider fool than I thought, Pen, in no way are those poems plagiarized, Doc WROTE them both, word for word...!
> He sure doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the word plagiarism.
>
> HTH and HAND.

Your "last man standing" nonsense won't float here, Donkey.

You *stole* the final/edited forms of the poems from Michael Cook and Jim Senetto:

Plagiarism isn't just limited to the words.

You were not responsible for the final form of either poem.

You wrote a prose message and posted it to AAPC. Jim took your prose message, and re-edited it into a poem.

The words were yours, but it took Jim's creative input to turn them into a poem.

Similarly, Michael Cook took one of your poems, and pared it down and re-edited it into a more accessible form (setting it to music as well?).

You supplied the words -- but the final product in both cases was the result of an artistic collaboration.

Legally, if you want to have full rights/credit for these poems, you are obliged to return them to their original (pre-collaborative) forms. If you want to keep them in their current form, than you must give credit to your collaborators.

When you post them without crediting your collaborators, you are committing plagiarism.

I think this is obvious enough for even a Donkey to understand.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:21:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:54:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:24:40 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> >> > On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> >> > > Again, like I said earlier, you're wrong, Pendragon, you shit spewing little monkey.
> >> > > I wrote "Karma Bombs", every word. No plagiarism.
> >> > >
> >> > > I wrote "Shambles", every word. No plagiarism.
> >> > >
> >> > > And, again, Michael Pendragon, why do you lie and misrepresent so much, you shit spewing little monkey?
> >> > > HTH and HAND, monkey.
> >> > Pen is just playing stupid as he so often does....
> >> Pendragon is showing how much he emulates PJR.
>
> >
> > Are you denying that Jim Senetto and Michael Cook made any changes to you poem in any way, shape or form?
> I'm not using any versions either Cook or Senetto adapted from my writing.

Last I checked, you were.

However, in fairness, I block all of your recent poetry threads unread, so you may have changed them back to their original form.

If so, we can call you a reformed plagiarist and let it go at that.

I've posted my versions of both poems recently.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:20:23 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> I've posted my versions of both poems recently.

I've told you, Donkey, I automatically report/block all poetry threads started by you unread.

Jim just posted both versions of "Shambles": his original edit and your re-edit.

Since your original version was a *prose* post, you owe Jim a credit.

Even if you've changed the line breaks, the *idea* to adapt your prose message into a poem was Jim's.

No, my writing is mine, I could give Senetto an editor credit, but none of the writing is his.

HTH and HAND.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 11:46:49 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> No, my writing is mine, I could give Senetto an editor credit, but none of the writing is his.
>
> HTH and HAND.

You need to give him some sort of credit. If he's okay with "edited by," that would be fine. You could also acknowledge it with a "special thanks to Jim Senetto," or a "suggested by Jim Senetto," etc. But his contribution needs to be acknowledged because if it had not been for Jim, it would have never become a poem. Rather, it would have remained one of several hundred thousand posts you've made over the past 20-odd years, and been forgotten.

No, I wrote the story, like all my stories, it was likely to become a poem or song lyric.

Senetto did an unsolicited edit, which I actually didn't use for the finished poem.

HTH and HAND.

Since my poems "Shambles" and "Karma Bombs" are on topic again, and this is a George Dance thread, here were George's thoughts on the "Shambles" poem.

Interesting reading, in my opinion:

***

George J. Dance wrote:
>
> Long Island poet Jim Senetto never ceases to amaze. On July 15, 2021 - mere hours after learning what a cento was - he had produced his first cento, entitled "Shambles," and had posted a copy to alt.arts.poetry.comments (usenet edition). Unfortunately, that first draft seems to have been withdrawn for further work, but Internet Archive has managed to save a copy for posterity:
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20210721020302/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/ZeLu697_LfA/m/94BScwCKAAAJ?hl=en
>
> Also unfortunately, in that draft Cento Senetto did not name his sources, leaving it to those of us interested in centos to track them down. I have managed to find a candidate: a poem by Will Dockery, also entitled "Shambles," which Dockery published on his own "Shadowville Mythos" blog on July 5, 2021:
>
> https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2021/07/shambles.html
>
> The similarities between the poems extend to more than the titles. I hope the following line-by-line comparison of Senetto's cento (identified as "ER") and Dockery's poem ("WD") shows the extent of the 'borrowing':
>
> ER:
> 1 Yes, that Richard Pryor looking guy
> 2 was somewhat interesting, except that he was so drunk
> 3 he drooled words
> WD:
> 1 Yes, the "Richard Pryor" looking guy was somewhat interesting,
> 2 except that he was so drunk he was drooling.
>
> ER:
> 4 thinking I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> WD:
> 3 He either thought I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
>
> ER:
> 5 as I watched it all go by on Broadway around midnight.
> WD:
> 4 sitting on the bench on Broadway at Midnight, typing.
>
> ER:
> 6 He mentioned Kentucky, was bourbon on the mind?
> WD:
> 5 He seemed to think we were from the same home area,
> 6 somewhere around Kentucky,
>
> ER:
> 7 North oats, was sour mash on the mind? Carolina,
> 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> WD:
> 7 Maybe Carolina,
> 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> 9 or maybe North Oates Avenue.
>
> ER:
> 9 then Tom Hanks was on my mind, though his dream
> 10 was shrimp.
> [not in WD]
>
> ER:
> 11 Politics reared its ugly head, drunk or sober it’s all the talk,
> 11 the out of the side of his mouth political jabs and so on,
>
> ER:
> 12 though quiet I was, being entertained, while playing the straight white guy,
> WD:
> 12 were pretty entertaining,
> 13 as I just sat there and typed,
> 14 playing the white straight man type,
> 15 like in Stir Crazy and Silver Streak,
>
> ER:
> 13 thinking, possibly, my Einstein hairdo might just have been the candle
> 14 to this drunken moth.
> WD:
> 16 wild Einstein afro hair flapping in the breeze.
>
> ER:
> 15 His stumble into me, brought it to a close,
> 16 my coffee wetting the same sidewalk he wandered off on…
> WD:
> 17 That went okay for a few minutes
> 18 until Pryor knocked over my coffee,
> 19 seemed to be embarrassed about that,
> 20 and wandered away,
> 21 on up the sidewalk.
>
> ER:
> 17 and from the other end a hooker chick approached,
> 18 she too, in shambles offering a down and dirty for five bucks
> WD:
> 22 Then when a crack hooker chick
> 23 in real shambles came along,
> 24 offered to blow me right there for five bucks,
>
> ER:
> 19 but saved, I was, a chilly breeze whispered, go home now.
> WD:
> 25 I decided that along with the chilly breeze on my back,
> 26 perhaps it was time to pack it up for the night.
>
> 27 I wanted dark, I got dark.
>
> Credits:
> ER: a cento by Edward Rochester Esq.
> WD:
> -Will Dockery (11-15-2016)
>
> So, except for Jim's LL 9-10, every line appears to be taken from Dockery's "Shambles".
>
> Jim's poem contains some interesting rewrites of lines, but nothing that substantially changes the poem; it's still a narration relating the same story about the same incident and events. In my judgement, then, this first draft fails as a cento because it's not transformative enough. Evidently Cento Senetto felt the same, which could explain the draft's sudden disappearance.

***

Again, well put, George.

HTH and HAND.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> Since my poems "Shambles" and "Karma Bombs" are on topic again, and this is a George Dance thread, here were George's thoughts on the "Shambles" poem.
>
> Interesting reading, in my opinion:
>
> ***
>
> George J. Dance wrote:
> >
> > Long Island poet Jim Senetto never ceases to amaze. On July 15, 2021 - mere hours after learning what a cento was - he had produced his first cento, entitled "Shambles," and had posted a copy to alt.arts.poetry.comments (usenet edition). Unfortunately, that first draft seems to have been withdrawn for further work, but Internet Archive has managed to save a copy for posterity:
> >
> > https://web.archive.org/web/20210721020302/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/ZeLu697_LfA/m/94BScwCKAAAJ?hl=en
> >
> > Also unfortunately, in that draft Cento Senetto did not name his sources, leaving it to those of us interested in centos to track them down. I have managed to find a candidate: a poem by Will Dockery, also entitled "Shambles," which Dockery published on his own "Shadowville Mythos" blog on July 5, 2021:
> >
> > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2021/07/shambles.html
> >
> > The similarities between the poems extend to more than the titles. I hope the following line-by-line comparison of Senetto's cento (identified as "ER") and Dockery's poem ("WD") shows the extent of the 'borrowing':
> >
> > ER:
> > 1 Yes, that Richard Pryor looking guy
> > 2 was somewhat interesting, except that he was so drunk
> > 3 he drooled words
> > WD:
> > 1 Yes, the "Richard Pryor" looking guy was somewhat interesting,
> > 2 except that he was so drunk he was drooling.
> >
> > ER:
> > 4 thinking I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > WD:
> > 3 He either thought I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> >
> > ER:
> > 5 as I watched it all go by on Broadway around midnight.
> > WD:
> > 4 sitting on the bench on Broadway at Midnight, typing.
> >
> > ER:
> > 6 He mentioned Kentucky, was bourbon on the mind?
> > WD:
> > 5 He seemed to think we were from the same home area,
> > 6 somewhere around Kentucky,
> >
> > ER:
> > 7 North oats, was sour mash on the mind? Carolina,
> > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > WD:
> > 7 Maybe Carolina,
> > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > 9 or maybe North Oates Avenue.
> >
> > ER:
> > 9 then Tom Hanks was on my mind, though his dream
> > 10 was shrimp.
> > [not in WD]
> >
> > ER:
> > 11 Politics reared its ugly head, drunk or sober it’s all the talk,
> > 11 the out of the side of his mouth political jabs and so on,
> >
> > ER:
> > 12 though quiet I was, being entertained, while playing the straight white guy,
> > WD:
> > 12 were pretty entertaining,
> > 13 as I just sat there and typed,
> > 14 playing the white straight man type,
> > 15 like in Stir Crazy and Silver Streak,
> >
> > ER:
> > 13 thinking, possibly, my Einstein hairdo might just have been the candle
> > 14 to this drunken moth.
> > WD:
> > 16 wild Einstein afro hair flapping in the breeze.
> >
> > ER:
> > 15 His stumble into me, brought it to a close,
> > 16 my coffee wetting the same sidewalk he wandered off on…
> > WD:
> > 17 That went okay for a few minutes
> > 18 until Pryor knocked over my coffee,
> > 19 seemed to be embarrassed about that,
> > 20 and wandered away,
> > 21 on up the sidewalk.
> >
> > ER:
> > 17 and from the other end a hooker chick approached,
> > 18 she too, in shambles offering a down and dirty for five bucks
> > WD:
> > 22 Then when a crack hooker chick
> > 23 in real shambles came along,
> > 24 offered to blow me right there for five bucks,
> >
> > ER:
> > 19 but saved, I was, a chilly breeze whispered, go home now.
> > WD:
> > 25 I decided that along with the chilly breeze on my back,
> > 26 perhaps it was time to pack it up for the night.
> >
> > 27 I wanted dark, I got dark.
> >
> > Credits:
> > ER: a cento by Edward Rochester Esq.
> > WD:
> > -Will Dockery (11-15-2016)
> >
> > So, except for Jim's LL 9-10, every line appears to be taken from Dockery's "Shambles".
> >
> > Jim's poem contains some interesting rewrites of lines, but nothing that substantially changes the poem; it's still a narration relating the same story about the same incident and events. In my judgement, then, this first draft fails as a cento because it's not transformative enough. Evidently Cento Senetto felt the same, which could explain the draft's sudden disappearance.
>
> ***
>
> Again, well put, George.
>
> HTH and HAND.

Indeed, I daresay QUOTE of the DAY worthy....!

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:43:48 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> > Since my poems "Shambles" and "Karma Bombs" are on topic again, and this is a George Dance thread, here were George's thoughts on the "Shambles" poem.
> >
> > Interesting reading, in my opinion:
> >
> > ***
> >
> > George J. Dance wrote:
> > >
> > > Long Island poet Jim Senetto never ceases to amaze. On July 15, 2021 - mere hours after learning what a cento was - he had produced his first cento, entitled "Shambles," and had posted a copy to alt.arts.poetry.comments (usenet edition). Unfortunately, that first draft seems to have been withdrawn for further work, but Internet Archive has managed to save a copy for posterity:
> > >
> > > https://web.archive.org/web/20210721020302/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/ZeLu697_LfA/m/94BScwCKAAAJ?hl=en
> > >
> > > Also unfortunately, in that draft Cento Senetto did not name his sources, leaving it to those of us interested in centos to track them down. I have managed to find a candidate: a poem by Will Dockery, also entitled "Shambles," which Dockery published on his own "Shadowville Mythos" blog on July 5, 2021:
> > >
> > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2021/07/shambles.html
> > >
> > > The similarities between the poems extend to more than the titles. I hope the following line-by-line comparison of Senetto's cento (identified as "ER") and Dockery's poem ("WD") shows the extent of the 'borrowing':
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 1 Yes, that Richard Pryor looking guy
> > > 2 was somewhat interesting, except that he was so drunk
> > > 3 he drooled words
> > > WD:
> > > 1 Yes, the "Richard Pryor" looking guy was somewhat interesting,
> > > 2 except that he was so drunk he was drooling.
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 4 thinking I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > WD:
> > > 3 He either thought I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 5 as I watched it all go by on Broadway around midnight.
> > > WD:
> > > 4 sitting on the bench on Broadway at Midnight, typing.
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 6 He mentioned Kentucky, was bourbon on the mind?
> > > WD:
> > > 5 He seemed to think we were from the same home area,
> > > 6 somewhere around Kentucky,
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 7 North oats, was sour mash on the mind? Carolina,
> > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > WD:
> > > 7 Maybe Carolina,
> > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > 9 or maybe North Oates Avenue.
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 9 then Tom Hanks was on my mind, though his dream
> > > 10 was shrimp.
> > > [not in WD]
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 11 Politics reared its ugly head, drunk or sober it’s all the talk,
> > > 11 the out of the side of his mouth political jabs and so on,
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 12 though quiet I was, being entertained, while playing the straight white guy,
> > > WD:
> > > 12 were pretty entertaining,
> > > 13 as I just sat there and typed,
> > > 14 playing the white straight man type,
> > > 15 like in Stir Crazy and Silver Streak,
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 13 thinking, possibly, my Einstein hairdo might just have been the candle
> > > 14 to this drunken moth.
> > > WD:
> > > 16 wild Einstein afro hair flapping in the breeze.
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 15 His stumble into me, brought it to a close,
> > > 16 my coffee wetting the same sidewalk he wandered off on…
> > > WD:
> > > 17 That went okay for a few minutes
> > > 18 until Pryor knocked over my coffee,
> > > 19 seemed to be embarrassed about that,
> > > 20 and wandered away,
> > > 21 on up the sidewalk.
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 17 and from the other end a hooker chick approached,
> > > 18 she too, in shambles offering a down and dirty for five bucks
> > > WD:
> > > 22 Then when a crack hooker chick
> > > 23 in real shambles came along,
> > > 24 offered to blow me right there for five bucks,
> > >
> > > ER:
> > > 19 but saved, I was, a chilly breeze whispered, go home now.
> > > WD:
> > > 25 I decided that along with the chilly breeze on my back,
> > > 26 perhaps it was time to pack it up for the night.
> > >
> > > 27 I wanted dark, I got dark.
> > >
> > > Credits:
> > > ER: a cento by Edward Rochester Esq.
> > > WD:
> > > -Will Dockery (11-15-2016)
> > >
> > > So, except for Jim's LL 9-10, every line appears to be taken from Dockery's "Shambles".
> > >
> > > Jim's poem contains some interesting rewrites of lines, but nothing that substantially changes the poem; it's still a narration relating the same story about the same incident and events. In my judgement, then, this first draft fails as a cento because it's not transformative enough. Evidently Cento Senetto felt the same, which could explain the draft's sudden disappearance.
> >
> > ***
> >
> > Again, well put, George.
> >
> > HTH and HAND.
> Indeed, I daresay QUOTE of the DAY worthy....!

It's definitely the hot topic of the day.

:)

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:22:08 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:43:48 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >
> > > Since my poems "Shambles" and "Karma Bombs" are on topic again, and this is a George Dance thread, here were George's thoughts on the "Shambles" poem.
> > >
> > > Interesting reading, in my opinion:
> > >
> > > ***
> > >
> > > George J. Dance wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Long Island poet Jim Senetto never ceases to amaze. On July 15, 2021 - mere hours after learning what a cento was - he had produced his first cento, entitled "Shambles," and had posted a copy to alt.arts.poetry.comments (usenet edition). Unfortunately, that first draft seems to have been withdrawn for further work, but Internet Archive has managed to save a copy for posterity:
> > > >
> > > > https://web.archive.org/web/20210721020302/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/ZeLu697_LfA/m/94BScwCKAAAJ?hl=en
> > > >
> > > > Also unfortunately, in that draft Cento Senetto did not name his sources, leaving it to those of us interested in centos to track them down. I have managed to find a candidate: a poem by Will Dockery, also entitled "Shambles," which Dockery published on his own "Shadowville Mythos" blog on July 5, 2021:
> > > >
> > > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2021/07/shambles.html
> > > >
> > > > The similarities between the poems extend to more than the titles. I hope the following line-by-line comparison of Senetto's cento (identified as "ER") and Dockery's poem ("WD") shows the extent of the 'borrowing':
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 1 Yes, that Richard Pryor looking guy
> > > > 2 was somewhat interesting, except that he was so drunk
> > > > 3 he drooled words
> > > > WD:
> > > > 1 Yes, the "Richard Pryor" looking guy was somewhat interesting,
> > > > 2 except that he was so drunk he was drooling.
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 4 thinking I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > WD:
> > > > 3 He either thought I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 5 as I watched it all go by on Broadway around midnight.
> > > > WD:
> > > > 4 sitting on the bench on Broadway at Midnight, typing.
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 6 He mentioned Kentucky, was bourbon on the mind?
> > > > WD:
> > > > 5 He seemed to think we were from the same home area,
> > > > 6 somewhere around Kentucky,
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 7 North oats, was sour mash on the mind? Carolina,
> > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > WD:
> > > > 7 Maybe Carolina,
> > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > 9 or maybe North Oates Avenue.
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 9 then Tom Hanks was on my mind, though his dream
> > > > 10 was shrimp.
> > > > [not in WD]
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 11 Politics reared its ugly head, drunk or sober it’s all the talk,
> > > > 11 the out of the side of his mouth political jabs and so on,
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 12 though quiet I was, being entertained, while playing the straight white guy,
> > > > WD:
> > > > 12 were pretty entertaining,
> > > > 13 as I just sat there and typed,
> > > > 14 playing the white straight man type,
> > > > 15 like in Stir Crazy and Silver Streak,
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 13 thinking, possibly, my Einstein hairdo might just have been the candle
> > > > 14 to this drunken moth.
> > > > WD:
> > > > 16 wild Einstein afro hair flapping in the breeze.
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 15 His stumble into me, brought it to a close,
> > > > 16 my coffee wetting the same sidewalk he wandered off on…
> > > > WD:
> > > > 17 That went okay for a few minutes
> > > > 18 until Pryor knocked over my coffee,
> > > > 19 seemed to be embarrassed about that,
> > > > 20 and wandered away,
> > > > 21 on up the sidewalk.
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 17 and from the other end a hooker chick approached,
> > > > 18 she too, in shambles offering a down and dirty for five bucks
> > > > WD:
> > > > 22 Then when a crack hooker chick
> > > > 23 in real shambles came along,
> > > > 24 offered to blow me right there for five bucks,
> > > >
> > > > ER:
> > > > 19 but saved, I was, a chilly breeze whispered, go home now.
> > > > WD:
> > > > 25 I decided that along with the chilly breeze on my back,
> > > > 26 perhaps it was time to pack it up for the night.
> > > >
> > > > 27 I wanted dark, I got dark.
> > > >
> > > > Credits:
> > > > ER: a cento by Edward Rochester Esq.
> > > > WD:
> > > > -Will Dockery (11-15-2016)
> > > >
> > > > So, except for Jim's LL 9-10, every line appears to be taken from Dockery's "Shambles".
> > > >
> > > > Jim's poem contains some interesting rewrites of lines, but nothing that substantially changes the poem; it's still a narration relating the same story about the same incident and events. In my judgement, then, this first draft fails as a cento because it's not transformative enough. Evidently Cento Senetto felt the same, which could explain the draft's sudden disappearance.
> > >
> > > ***
> > >
> > > Again, well put, George.
> > >
> > > HTH and HAND.
> > Indeed, I daresay QUOTE of the DAY worthy....!
> It's definitely the hot topic of the day.

Yep although they seem to have shut up about it today....

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 6:17:14 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:22:08 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:43:48 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Since my poems "Shambles" and "Karma Bombs" are on topic again, and this is a George Dance thread, here were George's thoughts on the "Shambles" poem.
> > > >
> > > > Interesting reading, in my opinion:
> > > >
> > > > ***
> > > >
> > > > George J. Dance wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Long Island poet Jim Senetto never ceases to amaze. On July 15, 2021 - mere hours after learning what a cento was - he had produced his first cento, entitled "Shambles," and had posted a copy to alt.arts.poetry.comments (usenet edition). Unfortunately, that first draft seems to have been withdrawn for further work, but Internet Archive has managed to save a copy for posterity:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://web.archive.org/web/20210721020302/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/ZeLu697_LfA/m/94BScwCKAAAJ?hl=en
> > > > >
> > > > > Also unfortunately, in that draft Cento Senetto did not name his sources, leaving it to those of us interested in centos to track them down. I have managed to find a candidate: a poem by Will Dockery, also entitled "Shambles," which Dockery published on his own "Shadowville Mythos" blog on July 5, 2021:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2021/07/shambles.html
> > > > >
> > > > > The similarities between the poems extend to more than the titles.. I hope the following line-by-line comparison of Senetto's cento (identified as "ER") and Dockery's poem ("WD") shows the extent of the 'borrowing':
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 1 Yes, that Richard Pryor looking guy
> > > > > 2 was somewhat interesting, except that he was so drunk
> > > > > 3 he drooled words
> > > > > WD:
> > > > > 1 Yes, the "Richard Pryor" looking guy was somewhat interesting,
> > > > > 2 except that he was so drunk he was drooling.
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 4 thinking I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > > WD:
> > > > > 3 He either thought I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 5 as I watched it all go by on Broadway around midnight.
> > > > > WD:
> > > > > 4 sitting on the bench on Broadway at Midnight, typing.
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 6 He mentioned Kentucky, was bourbon on the mind?
> > > > > WD:
> > > > > 5 He seemed to think we were from the same home area,
> > > > > 6 somewhere around Kentucky,
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 7 North oats, was sour mash on the mind? Carolina,
> > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > WD:
> > > > > 7 Maybe Carolina,
> > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > 9 or maybe North Oates Avenue.
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 9 then Tom Hanks was on my mind, though his dream
> > > > > 10 was shrimp.
> > > > > [not in WD]
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 11 Politics reared its ugly head, drunk or sober it’s all the talk,
> > > > > 11 the out of the side of his mouth political jabs and so on,
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 12 though quiet I was, being entertained, while playing the straight white guy,
> > > > > WD:
> > > > > 12 were pretty entertaining,
> > > > > 13 as I just sat there and typed,
> > > > > 14 playing the white straight man type,
> > > > > 15 like in Stir Crazy and Silver Streak,
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 13 thinking, possibly, my Einstein hairdo might just have been the candle
> > > > > 14 to this drunken moth.
> > > > > WD:
> > > > > 16 wild Einstein afro hair flapping in the breeze.
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 15 His stumble into me, brought it to a close,
> > > > > 16 my coffee wetting the same sidewalk he wandered off on…
> > > > > WD:
> > > > > 17 That went okay for a few minutes
> > > > > 18 until Pryor knocked over my coffee,
> > > > > 19 seemed to be embarrassed about that,
> > > > > 20 and wandered away,
> > > > > 21 on up the sidewalk.
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 17 and from the other end a hooker chick approached,
> > > > > 18 she too, in shambles offering a down and dirty for five bucks
> > > > > WD:
> > > > > 22 Then when a crack hooker chick
> > > > > 23 in real shambles came along,
> > > > > 24 offered to blow me right there for five bucks,
> > > > >
> > > > > ER:
> > > > > 19 but saved, I was, a chilly breeze whispered, go home now.
> > > > > WD:
> > > > > 25 I decided that along with the chilly breeze on my back,
> > > > > 26 perhaps it was time to pack it up for the night.
> > > > >
> > > > > 27 I wanted dark, I got dark.
> > > > >
> > > > > Credits:
> > > > > ER: a cento by Edward Rochester Esq.
> > > > > WD:
> > > > > -Will Dockery (11-15-2016)
> > > > >
> > > > > So, except for Jim's LL 9-10, every line appears to be taken from Dockery's "Shambles".
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim's poem contains some interesting rewrites of lines, but nothing that substantially changes the poem; it's still a narration relating the same story about the same incident and events. In my judgement, then, this first draft fails as a cento because it's not transformative enough. Evidently Cento Senetto felt the same, which could explain the draft's sudden disappearance.
> > > >
> > > > ***
> > > >
> > > > Again, well put, George.
> > > >
> > > > HTH and HAND.
> > > Indeed, I daresay QUOTE of the DAY worthy....!
> > It's definitely the hot topic of the day.
> Yep although they seem to have shut up about it today....

It probably dawned on Pendragon how stupid he was looking.

:)

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:02:36 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 6:17:14 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:22:08 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:43:48 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Since my poems "Shambles" and "Karma Bombs" are on topic again, and this is a George Dance thread, here were George's thoughts on the "Shambles" poem.
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting reading, in my opinion:
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > >
> > > > > George J. Dance wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Long Island poet Jim Senetto never ceases to amaze. On July 15, 2021 - mere hours after learning what a cento was - he had produced his first cento, entitled "Shambles," and had posted a copy to alt.arts.poetry.comments (usenet edition). Unfortunately, that first draft seems to have been withdrawn for further work, but Internet Archive has managed to save a copy for posterity:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://web.archive.org/web/20210721020302/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/ZeLu697_LfA/m/94BScwCKAAAJ?hl=en
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also unfortunately, in that draft Cento Senetto did not name his sources, leaving it to those of us interested in centos to track them down. I have managed to find a candidate: a poem by Will Dockery, also entitled "Shambles," which Dockery published on his own "Shadowville Mythos" blog on July 5, 2021:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2021/07/shambles.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The similarities between the poems extend to more than the titles. I hope the following line-by-line comparison of Senetto's cento (identified as "ER") and Dockery's poem ("WD") shows the extent of the 'borrowing':
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 1 Yes, that Richard Pryor looking guy
> > > > > > 2 was somewhat interesting, except that he was so drunk
> > > > > > 3 he drooled words
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 1 Yes, the "Richard Pryor" looking guy was somewhat interesting,
> > > > > > 2 except that he was so drunk he was drooling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 4 thinking I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 3 He either thought I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 5 as I watched it all go by on Broadway around midnight.
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 4 sitting on the bench on Broadway at Midnight, typing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 6 He mentioned Kentucky, was bourbon on the mind?
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 5 He seemed to think we were from the same home area,
> > > > > > 6 somewhere around Kentucky,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 7 North oats, was sour mash on the mind? Carolina,
> > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 7 Maybe Carolina,
> > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > > 9 or maybe North Oates Avenue.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 9 then Tom Hanks was on my mind, though his dream
> > > > > > 10 was shrimp.
> > > > > > [not in WD]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 11 Politics reared its ugly head, drunk or sober it’s all the talk,
> > > > > > 11 the out of the side of his mouth political jabs and so on,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 12 though quiet I was, being entertained, while playing the straight white guy,
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 12 were pretty entertaining,
> > > > > > 13 as I just sat there and typed,
> > > > > > 14 playing the white straight man type,
> > > > > > 15 like in Stir Crazy and Silver Streak,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 13 thinking, possibly, my Einstein hairdo might just have been the candle
> > > > > > 14 to this drunken moth.
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 16 wild Einstein afro hair flapping in the breeze.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 15 His stumble into me, brought it to a close,
> > > > > > 16 my coffee wetting the same sidewalk he wandered off on…
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 17 That went okay for a few minutes
> > > > > > 18 until Pryor knocked over my coffee,
> > > > > > 19 seemed to be embarrassed about that,
> > > > > > 20 and wandered away,
> > > > > > 21 on up the sidewalk.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 17 and from the other end a hooker chick approached,
> > > > > > 18 she too, in shambles offering a down and dirty for five bucks
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 22 Then when a crack hooker chick
> > > > > > 23 in real shambles came along,
> > > > > > 24 offered to blow me right there for five bucks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 19 but saved, I was, a chilly breeze whispered, go home now.
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 25 I decided that along with the chilly breeze on my back,
> > > > > > 26 perhaps it was time to pack it up for the night.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 27 I wanted dark, I got dark.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Credits:
> > > > > > ER: a cento by Edward Rochester Esq.
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > -Will Dockery (11-15-2016)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, except for Jim's LL 9-10, every line appears to be taken from Dockery's "Shambles".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim's poem contains some interesting rewrites of lines, but nothing that substantially changes the poem; it's still a narration relating the same story about the same incident and events. In my judgement, then, this first draft fails as a cento because it's not transformative enough. Evidently Cento Senetto felt the same, which could explain the draft's sudden disappearance.
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, well put, George.
> > > > >
> > > > > HTH and HAND.
> > > > Indeed, I daresay QUOTE of the DAY worthy....!
> > > It's definitely the hot topic of the day.
> > Yep although they seem to have shut up about it today....
> It probably dawned on Pendragon how stupid he was looking.

Yes, when proven wrong Voodoo Boy often quietly STFU...

Ha ha.

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 3:44:49 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:02:36 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 6:17:14 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:22:08 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:43:48 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since my poems "Shambles" and "Karma Bombs" are on topic again, and this is a George Dance thread, here were George's thoughts on the "Shambles" poem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Interesting reading, in my opinion:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ***
> > > > > >
> > > > > > George J. Dance wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Long Island poet Jim Senetto never ceases to amaze. On July 15, 2021 - mere hours after learning what a cento was - he had produced his first cento, entitled "Shambles," and had posted a copy to alt.arts.poetry.comments (usenet edition). Unfortunately, that first draft seems to have been withdrawn for further work, but Internet Archive has managed to save a copy for posterity:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://web.archive.org/web/20210721020302/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/ZeLu697_LfA/m/94BScwCKAAAJ?hl=en
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also unfortunately, in that draft Cento Senetto did not name his sources, leaving it to those of us interested in centos to track them down. I have managed to find a candidate: a poem by Will Dockery, also entitled "Shambles," which Dockery published on his own "Shadowville Mythos" blog on July 5, 2021:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2021/07/shambles.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The similarities between the poems extend to more than the titles. I hope the following line-by-line comparison of Senetto's cento (identified as "ER") and Dockery's poem ("WD") shows the extent of the 'borrowing':
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 1 Yes, that Richard Pryor looking guy
> > > > > > > 2 was somewhat interesting, except that he was so drunk
> > > > > > > 3 he drooled words
> > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > 1 Yes, the "Richard Pryor" looking guy was somewhat interesting,
> > > > > > > 2 except that he was so drunk he was drooling.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 4 thinking I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > 3 He either thought I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 5 as I watched it all go by on Broadway around midnight.
> > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > 4 sitting on the bench on Broadway at Midnight, typing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 6 He mentioned Kentucky, was bourbon on the mind?
> > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > 5 He seemed to think we were from the same home area,
> > > > > > > 6 somewhere around Kentucky,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 7 North oats, was sour mash on the mind? Carolina,
> > > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > 7 Maybe Carolina,
> > > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > > > 9 or maybe North Oates Avenue.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 9 then Tom Hanks was on my mind, though his dream
> > > > > > > 10 was shrimp.
> > > > > > > [not in WD]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 11 Politics reared its ugly head, drunk or sober it’s all the talk,
> > > > > > > 11 the out of the side of his mouth political jabs and so on,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 12 though quiet I was, being entertained, while playing the straight white guy,
> > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > 12 were pretty entertaining,
> > > > > > > 13 as I just sat there and typed,
> > > > > > > 14 playing the white straight man type,
> > > > > > > 15 like in Stir Crazy and Silver Streak,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 13 thinking, possibly, my Einstein hairdo might just have been the candle
> > > > > > > 14 to this drunken moth.
> > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > 16 wild Einstein afro hair flapping in the breeze.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 15 His stumble into me, brought it to a close,
> > > > > > > 16 my coffee wetting the same sidewalk he wandered off on…
> > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > 17 That went okay for a few minutes
> > > > > > > 18 until Pryor knocked over my coffee,
> > > > > > > 19 seemed to be embarrassed about that,
> > > > > > > 20 and wandered away,
> > > > > > > 21 on up the sidewalk.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 17 and from the other end a hooker chick approached,
> > > > > > > 18 she too, in shambles offering a down and dirty for five bucks
> > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > 22 Then when a crack hooker chick
> > > > > > > 23 in real shambles came along,
> > > > > > > 24 offered to blow me right there for five bucks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > 19 but saved, I was, a chilly breeze whispered, go home now.
> > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > 25 I decided that along with the chilly breeze on my back,
> > > > > > > 26 perhaps it was time to pack it up for the night.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 27 I wanted dark, I got dark.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Credits:
> > > > > > > ER: a cento by Edward Rochester Esq.
> > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > -Will Dockery (11-15-2016)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, except for Jim's LL 9-10, every line appears to be taken from Dockery's "Shambles".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim's poem contains some interesting rewrites of lines, but nothing that substantially changes the poem; it's still a narration relating the same story about the same incident and events. In my judgement, then, this first draft fails as a cento because it's not transformative enough. Evidently Cento Senetto felt the same, which could explain the draft's sudden disappearance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ***
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Again, well put, George.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HTH and HAND.
> > > > > Indeed, I daresay QUOTE of the DAY worthy....!
> > > > It's definitely the hot topic of the day.
> > > Yep although they seem to have shut up about it today....
> > It probably dawned on Pendragon how stupid he was looking.
> Yes, when proven wrong Voodoo Boy often quietly STFU...
>
> Ha ha.

My previous post still stands. There is no need for further discussion on my part, and...

oh, yeah... shut up, Todd.

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 3:51:16 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 3:44:49 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:02:36 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Since my poems "Shambles" and "Karma Bombs" are on topic again, and this is a George Dance thread, here were George's thoughts on the "Shambles" poem.
> > > > > > > Interesting reading, in my opinion:
>
> > > > > > > George J. Dance wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Long Island poet Jim Senetto never ceases to amaze. On July 15, 2021 - mere hours after learning what a cento was - he had produced his first cento, entitled "Shambles," and had posted a copy to alt.arts.poetry.comments (usenet edition). Unfortunately, that first draft seems to have been withdrawn for further work, but Internet Archive has managed to save a copy for posterity:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://web.archive.org/web/20210721020302/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/ZeLu697_LfA/m/94BScwCKAAAJ?hl=en
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also unfortunately, in that draft Cento Senetto did not name his sources, leaving it to those of us interested in centos to track them down. I have managed to find a candidate: a poem by Will Dockery, also entitled "Shambles," which Dockery published on his own "Shadowville Mythos" blog on July 5, 2021:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2021/07/shambles.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The similarities between the poems extend to more than the titles. I hope the following line-by-line comparison of Senetto's cento (identified as "ER") and Dockery's poem ("WD") shows the extent of the 'borrowing':
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 1 Yes, that Richard Pryor looking guy
> > > > > > > > 2 was somewhat interesting, except that he was so drunk
> > > > > > > > 3 he drooled words
> > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > 1 Yes, the "Richard Pryor" looking guy was somewhat interesting,
> > > > > > > > 2 except that he was so drunk he was drooling.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 4 thinking I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > 3 He either thought I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 5 as I watched it all go by on Broadway around midnight.
> > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > 4 sitting on the bench on Broadway at Midnight, typing.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 6 He mentioned Kentucky, was bourbon on the mind?
> > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > 5 He seemed to think we were from the same home area,
> > > > > > > > 6 somewhere around Kentucky,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 7 North oats, was sour mash on the mind? Carolina,
> > > > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > 7 Maybe Carolina,
> > > > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > > > > 9 or maybe North Oates Avenue.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 9 then Tom Hanks was on my mind, though his dream
> > > > > > > > 10 was shrimp.
> > > > > > > > [not in WD]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 11 Politics reared its ugly head, drunk or sober it’s all the talk,
> > > > > > > > 11 the out of the side of his mouth political jabs and so on,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 12 though quiet I was, being entertained, while playing the straight white guy,
> > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > 12 were pretty entertaining,
> > > > > > > > 13 as I just sat there and typed,
> > > > > > > > 14 playing the white straight man type,
> > > > > > > > 15 like in Stir Crazy and Silver Streak,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 13 thinking, possibly, my Einstein hairdo might just have been the candle
> > > > > > > > 14 to this drunken moth.
> > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > 16 wild Einstein afro hair flapping in the breeze.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 15 His stumble into me, brought it to a close,
> > > > > > > > 16 my coffee wetting the same sidewalk he wandered off on…
> > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > 17 That went okay for a few minutes
> > > > > > > > 18 until Pryor knocked over my coffee,
> > > > > > > > 19 seemed to be embarrassed about that,
> > > > > > > > 20 and wandered away,
> > > > > > > > 21 on up the sidewalk.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 17 and from the other end a hooker chick approached,
> > > > > > > > 18 she too, in shambles offering a down and dirty for five bucks
> > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > 22 Then when a crack hooker chick
> > > > > > > > 23 in real shambles came along,
> > > > > > > > 24 offered to blow me right there for five bucks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > 19 but saved, I was, a chilly breeze whispered, go home now..
> > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > 25 I decided that along with the chilly breeze on my back,
> > > > > > > > 26 perhaps it was time to pack it up for the night.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 27 I wanted dark, I got dark.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Credits:
> > > > > > > > ER: a cento by Edward Rochester Esq.
> > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > -Will Dockery (11-15-2016)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, except for Jim's LL 9-10, every line appears to be taken from Dockery's "Shambles".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jim's poem contains some interesting rewrites of lines, but nothing that substantially changes the poem; it's still a narration relating the same story about the same incident and events. In my judgement, then, this first draft fails as a cento because it's not transformative enough. Evidently Cento Senetto felt the same, which could explain the draft's sudden disappearance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ***
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Again, well put, George.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HTH and HAND.
> > > > > > Indeed, I daresay QUOTE of the DAY worthy....!
> > > > > It's definitely the hot topic of the day.
> > > > Yep although they seem to have shut up about it today....
> > > It probably dawned on Pendragon how stupid he was looking.
> > Yes, when proven wrong Voodoo Boy often quietly STFU...
> >
> > Ha ha.
> My previous

Shut up, Voodoo Boy.

Ha ha.