On 07/03/2023 10:08, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:02:08 +0000
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 07/03/2023 09:25, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 22:18:29 +0000
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 06/03/2023 17:11, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>> There's a reason they, and everybody else, only fought in summer.
>>>>>
>>>>> *sigh*
>>>>>
>>>>> 1066.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kept being postponed because of bad weather. Once again England lost on
>>>> penalties.
>>>
>>> Actually Harold won the battle against Hardrarda - at the end of september.
>>> Hardly summer.
>>
>> Summer is a moveable feast, dependant on the weather at the time.
>
> Ah, the usual uk.railway goalpost shuffle.

You've not heard of an "Indian summer" then?

>
>>> Its quite likely if it hadn't been for that and Harolds army having to march
>>> 200 miles down to hastings so being totally knackered by the time they got
>>> there history would have been very different. I've never seen any mention
>>> of the invasions being co-ordinated but it would hardly be a shock to me if
>> that
>>> was the case.
>>>
>>
>> Unlikely, the timing of the Norman invasion was totally dependant on the
>> weather in the Channel. The reason Harold had to make a forced march
>> northwards in the first place was that he was waiting in the south most
>> of the summer in anticipation of William the Bastard's arrival
>
> The vikings could have been delayed too. And don't forget the normans were
> simply naturalised vikings - clues in their name - and no doubt had plenty of
> connections back in denmark and norway.
>

No doubt did, but this was an age where communications could take weeks
between Caen and Norway, making coordinated attacks except in broad
terms, highly unlikely.

Ships of the era could only really sail downwind so were far more
dependant on favourable weather than, say, in the Napoleonic wars. The
easterly winds that kept the Bastard's fleet in port would have been
favourable for Hardrada's crossing of the North Sea.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 07.03.23 12:11, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tu73bo$cbtg$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:23:52 on Tue, 7 Mar
> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:02:50 +0000
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tu702b$brht$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:27:39 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 02:23:06 +0000
>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> That "below 40%" is when the don't knows/don't cares/FOAMYOB are
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IOW a standard poll.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>>>> vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>>>> counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>>>> something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>>>> trying to prevent.
>>>>
>>>> You had your "once in a generation" vote. A generation is at least
>>>> 20-25
>>> years.
>>>> You don't keep having referendums until you get the vote you want.
>>>
>>> I vote for proper plurals, so multiple referenda, please.
>>
>> Proper plurals in English generally have an 's' applied, sheep
>> notwithstanding.
>> Using an 'a' instead is just being a latin snob :)
>
> Panini (singular is Panino).

In Italian, yes. The word has, however, been absorbed into English as an
English word in the signular.

Robin

On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 11:22:41 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 07/03/2023 10:08, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> Summer is a moveable feast, dependant on the weather at the time.
>>
>> Ah, the usual uk.railway goalpost shuffle.
>
>You've not heard of an "Indian summer" then?

Was there one in 1066?

>> The vikings could have been delayed too. And don't forget the normans were
>> simply naturalised vikings - clues in their name - and no doubt had plenty of
>
>> connections back in denmark and norway.
>>
>
>No doubt did, but this was an age where communications could take weeks
>between Caen and Norway, making coordinated attacks except in broad
>terms, highly unlikely.

It only needed to be in broad terms. Whoever gets there first kills the king
and then England gets partitioned once again as it was under the danelaw times.
It took the normans years to pacify the north of england so having cousin
Hardrada doing if for him would probably have suited William. For a while
anyway. They'd have fought in the end as the normans loved conquest as the
welsh and irish found out later on.

On 07/03/2023 09:29, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 08:53:17 +0000
> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 07/03/2023 02:23, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>> wrote:
>>> Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>> vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>> counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>> something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>> trying to prevent.
>>
>> Yes. Voter suppression is something the UK conservatives have in common
>> with the US Republicans. Both has their roots in racism.
>
> Racism? Thats a new one. Are the scots a seperate race from the english then?
> I suspect genealogists (not to mention geneticists) would disagree.
>

Not at all. The voter suppression in this case is that the parties are
trying to prevent groups of people who don't support them. In many
cases this will ethnic minorities particularly the young.

On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:23:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:02:50 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <tu702b$brht$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:27:39 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 02:23:06 +0000
>>>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>That "below 40%" is when the don't knows/don't cares/FOAMYOB are
>>>>>
>>>>>IOW a standard poll.
>>>>>
>>>>Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>>>vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>>>counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>>>something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>>>trying to prevent.
>>>
>>>You had your "once in a generation" vote. A generation is at least 20-25
>>years.
>>>You don't keep having referendums until you get the vote you want.
>>
>>I vote for proper plurals, so multiple referenda, please.
>
>Proper plurals in English generally have an 's' applied, sheep notwithstanding.
>Using an 'a' instead is just being a latin snob :)

Children, children... please be, er...!

On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:21:48 +0000
Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>On 07/03/2023 09:29, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 08:53:17 +0000
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 07/03/2023 02:23, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>>> vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>>> counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>>> something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>>> trying to prevent.
>>>
>>> Yes. Voter suppression is something the UK conservatives have in common
>>> with the US Republicans. Both has their roots in racism.
>>
>> Racism? Thats a new one. Are the scots a seperate race from the english then?
>
>> I suspect genealogists (not to mention geneticists) would disagree.
>>
>
>Not at all. The voter suppression in this case is that the parties are
>trying to prevent groups of people who don't support them. In many

Bollocks. In this case its whiny nationalists who just like some remainers can't
get over the fact that they lost.

>cases this will ethnic minorities particularly the young.

Why not LGBTQRSTUVWXY++ and the disabled too while you're chucking in
special interest groups?

On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:34:28 -0800
Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:23:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:02:50 +0000
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <tu702b$brht$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:27:39 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 02:23:06 +0000
>>>>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>That "below 40%" is when the don't knows/don't cares/FOAMYOB are
>>>>>>
>>>>>>IOW a standard poll.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>>>>vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>>>>counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>>>>something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>>>>trying to prevent.
>>>>
>>>>You had your "once in a generation" vote. A generation is at least 20-25
>>>years.
>>>>You don't keep having referendums until you get the vote you want.
>>>
>>>I vote for proper plurals, so multiple referenda, please.
>>
>>Proper plurals in English generally have an 's' applied, sheep
>notwithstanding.
>>Using an 'a' instead is just being a latin snob :)
>
>Children, children... please be, er...!

I said generally, not all the time. There are no doubt quite a few exceptions
in english such as children.

On 07/03/2023 16:06, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 11:22:41 +0000
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 07/03/2023 10:08, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> Summer is a moveable feast, dependant on the weather at the time.
>>>
>>> Ah, the usual uk.railway goalpost shuffle.
>>
>> You've not heard of an "Indian summer" then?
>
> Was there one in 1066?
>
>>> The vikings could have been delayed too. And don't forget the normans were
>>> simply naturalised vikings - clues in their name - and no doubt had plenty of
>>
>>> connections back in denmark and norway.
>>>
>>
>> No doubt did, but this was an age where communications could take weeks
>> between Caen and Norway, making coordinated attacks except in broad
>> terms, highly unlikely.
>
> It only needed to be in broad terms. Whoever gets there first kills the king
> and then England gets partitioned once again as it was under the danelaw times.
> It took the normans years to pacify the north of england so having cousin
> Hardrada doing if for him would probably have suited William. For a while
> anyway. They'd have fought in the end as the normans loved conquest as the
> welsh and irish found out later on.
>

William's claim was to be King of all England (fsvo) not sure he would
have contemplated sharing it even with a cousin.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 07/03/2023 16:34, Nobody wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:23:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:02:50 +0000
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tu702b$brht$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:27:39 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 02:23:06 +0000
>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> That "below 40%" is when the don't knows/don't cares/FOAMYOB are
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IOW a standard poll.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>>>> vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>>>> counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>>>> something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>>>> trying to prevent.
>>>>
>>>> You had your "once in a generation" vote. A generation is at least 20-25
>>> years.
>>>> You don't keep having referendums until you get the vote you want.
>>>
>>> I vote for proper plurals, so multiple referenda, please.
>>
>> Proper plurals in English generally have an 's' applied, sheep notwithstanding.
>> Using an 'a' instead is just being a latin snob :)
>
> Children, children... please be, er...!

subtle :-)
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 07/03/2023 17:01, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:21:48 +0000
> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 07/03/2023 09:29, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 08:53:17 +0000
>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 07/03/2023 02:23, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>>>> vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>>>> counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>>>> something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>>>> trying to prevent.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. Voter suppression is something the UK conservatives have in common
>>>> with the US Republicans. Both has their roots in racism.
>>>
>>> Racism? Thats a new one. Are the scots a seperate race from the english then?
>>
>>> I suspect genealogists (not to mention geneticists) would disagree.
>>>
>>
>> Not at all. The voter suppression in this case is that the parties are
>> trying to prevent groups of people who don't support them. In many
>
> Bollocks. In this case its whiny nationalists who just like some remainers can't
> get over the fact that they lost.

Strangely it's the leavers who are continuously moaning. You won, live
with it.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 07/03/2023 16:21, Coffee wrote:
> Not at all. The voter suppression in this case is that the parties are
> trying to prevent groups of people who don't support them. In many
> cases this will ethnic minorities particularly the young.

Which vote are you claiming is being suppressed?

Do you want all votes open to anyone to vote in, whatever their
nationality and residence?

Perhaps you believe in the Irish principle of 'Vote Early, Vote Often'?

In message <tu7nbt$faau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:05:15 on Tue, 7 Mar
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 07.03.23 12:11, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tu73bo$cbtg$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:23:52 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:02:50 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tu702b$brht$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:27:39 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 02:23:06 +0000
>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> That "below 40%" is when the don't knows/don't cares/FOAMYOB are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IOW a standard poll.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>>>>> vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>>>>> counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>>>>> something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>>>>> trying to prevent.
>>>>>
>>>>> You had your "once in a generation" vote. A generation is at least
>>>>>20-25
>>>> years.
>>>>> You don't keep having referendums until you get the vote you want.
>>>>
>>>> I vote for proper plurals, so multiple referenda, please.
>>>
>>> Proper plurals in English generally have an 's' applied, sheep
>>>notwithstanding.

>>> Using an 'a' instead is just being a latin snob :)

>> Panini (singular is Panino).
>
>In Italian, yes. The word has, however, been absorbed into English as
>an English word in the signular.

Only because people are lazy about their grammar.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:04:07 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 07/03/2023 16:06, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 11:22:41 +0000
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 07/03/2023 10:08, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> Summer is a moveable feast, dependant on the weather at the time.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, the usual uk.railway goalpost shuffle.
>>>
>>> You've not heard of an "Indian summer" then?
>>
>> Was there one in 1066?
>>
>>>> The vikings could have been delayed too. And don't forget the normans were
>>>> simply naturalised vikings - clues in their name - and no doubt had plenty
>of
>>>
>>>> connections back in denmark and norway.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No doubt did, but this was an age where communications could take weeks
>>> between Caen and Norway, making coordinated attacks except in broad
>>> terms, highly unlikely.
>>
>> It only needed to be in broad terms. Whoever gets there first kills the king
>> and then England gets partitioned once again as it was under the danelaw
>times.
>> It took the normans years to pacify the north of england so having cousin
>> Hardrada doing if for him would probably have suited William. For a while
>> anyway. They'd have fought in the end as the normans loved conquest as the
>> welsh and irish found out later on.
>>
>
>William's claim was to be King of all England (fsvo) not sure he would
>have contemplated sharing it even with a cousin.

Even when Harold was king englands northern borders were a bit fuzzy as
northumberland was still quite powerful.

Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
> On 07.03.23 12:11, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tu73bo$cbtg$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:23:52 on Tue, 7 Mar
>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:02:50 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tu702b$brht$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:27:39 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 02:23:06 +0000
>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> That "below 40%" is when the don't knows/don't cares/FOAMYOB are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IOW a standard poll.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>>>>> vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>>>>> counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>>>>> something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>>>>> trying to prevent.
>>>>>
>>>>> You had your "once in a generation" vote. A generation is at least
>>>>> 20-25
>>>> years.
>>>>> You don't keep having referendums until you get the vote you want.
>>>>
>>>> I vote for proper plurals, so multiple referenda, please.
>>>
>>> Proper plurals in English generally have an 's' applied, sheep
>>> notwithstanding.
>>> Using an 'a' instead is just being a latin snob :)
>>
>> Panini (singular is Panino).
>
> In Italian, yes. The word has, however, been absorbed into English as an
> English word in the signular.

My Italian friend tells me, with a slight air of despair, that even in
Italy “panini” has become a singular.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:04:54 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 07/03/2023 16:34, Nobody wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:23:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:02:50 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tu702b$brht$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:27:39 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 02:23:06 +0000
>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> That "below 40%" is when the don't knows/don't cares/FOAMYOB are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IOW a standard poll.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>>>>> vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>>>>> counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>>>>> something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>>>>> trying to prevent.
>>>>>
>>>>> You had your "once in a generation" vote. A generation is at least 20-25
>>>> years.
>>>>> You don't keep having referendums until you get the vote you want.
>>>>
>>>> I vote for proper plurals, so multiple referenda, please.
>>>
>>> Proper plurals in English generally have an 's' applied, sheep notwithstanding.
>>> Using an 'a' instead is just being a latin snob :)
>>
>> Children, children... please be, er...!
>
>subtle :-)

I was trying to be kinder to kinder...

Now, it's time to go out into the garten... to pick some cauliflower.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 07/03/2023 16:21, Coffee wrote:
>> Not at all. The voter suppression in this case is that the parties are
>> trying to prevent groups of people who don't support them. In many
>> cases this will ethnic minorities particularly the young.
>
>
> Which vote are you claiming is being suppressed?
>
> Do you want all votes open to anyone to vote in, whatever their
> nationality and residence?
>
> Perhaps you believe in the Irish principle of 'Vote Early, Vote Often'?

No, it’s that voter ID is being introduced to solve a problem that doesn’t
exist - there are almost no examples of fraudulent voting under the current
system and yet legislation is being proposed to make it more difficult for
some people to vote, people who will find it more difficult to present
relevant ID.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 07/03/2023 09:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> My school history lessons said it was coordinated, and so did the Ladybird
>> book I used to have, but Wikipedia doesn’t seem to mention it. Perhaps,
>> like many English historical certainties it’s turned out to be a myth.
>
>
> Why limit to "English historical certainties"? Doesn't the same apply
> to many "Scottish historical certainties", probably worse because of the
> nationalists promoting many myths.

Apologies; no sectarian slurs intended. I grew up in England, was taught
English history with any Welsh or Scottish events only ones involving the
English, and no Irish history at all as far as I can remember. I’m sure
history as taught in other nations is just as likely to include certainties
that have later been disproved or doubted.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 07/03/2023 17:20, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:04:07 +0000
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 07/03/2023 16:06, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 11:22:41 +0000
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 07/03/2023 10:08, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>> Summer is a moveable feast, dependant on the weather at the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, the usual uk.railway goalpost shuffle.
>>>>
>>>> You've not heard of an "Indian summer" then?
>>>
>>> Was there one in 1066?
>>>
>>>>> The vikings could have been delayed too. And don't forget the normans were
>>>>> simply naturalised vikings - clues in their name - and no doubt had plenty
>> of
>>>>
>>>>> connections back in denmark and norway.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No doubt did, but this was an age where communications could take weeks
>>>> between Caen and Norway, making coordinated attacks except in broad
>>>> terms, highly unlikely.
>>>
>>> It only needed to be in broad terms. Whoever gets there first kills the king
>>> and then England gets partitioned once again as it was under the danelaw
>> times.
>>> It took the normans years to pacify the north of england so having cousin
>>> Hardrada doing if for him would probably have suited William. For a while
>>> anyway. They'd have fought in the end as the normans loved conquest as the
>>> welsh and irish found out later on.
>>>
>>
>> William's claim was to be King of all England (fsvo) not sure he would
>> have contemplated sharing it even with a cousin.
>
> Even when Harold was king englands northern borders were a bit fuzzy as
> northumberland was still quite powerful.
>

The borders are still a bit fuzzy!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
> On 07.03.23 10:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <ttl9ti$3l4n4$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:25:21 on Tue, 28 Feb
>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>> On 28.02.23 15:59, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <ttj56n$3bo8t$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:52:39 on Mon, 27 Feb
>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/02/2023 18:39, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes. But you could ignore it. Being an EU citizen imposed no personal
>>>>>>> obligations on you. Losing my citizenship removes real practical rights
>>>>>>> from me, such as being able to work in any EU country or being
>>>>>>> able to stay
>>>>>>> in other EU countries for lengthy periods.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will the SNP have as much support in the future? It seems to have
>>>>>> dropped since Sturgeon's resignation and will it fall further now we
>>>>>> seem to know why she resigned.
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m told by young people I know in Glasgow that the desire for
>>>>> independence is very strong amongst the young, and figures I have
>>>>> seen confirm this. Now this can go two ways - these people remain
>>>>> of that view as they age and more independence minded youngsters
>>>>> come up behind them. On the other hand perhaps they change their
>>>>> mind with age and the status quo remains.
>>
>>>> The problem with "the young" is they don't understand where the
>>>> money has come from to featherbed them most of their life so far.
>>>> When they grow up and have kids asking to borrow from bank-of-mum-
>>>> and-dad, or get a role as councillor having to decide which 10% of
>>>> deserving community applications gets to be awarded a grant this
>>>> year, the perspective changes.
>>>
>>> Conversely the problem with "the old" is that they have completely lost
>>> touch with how much the world has changed since their youth, and don't
>>> realise that the opportunities they were able to take advantage of in
>>> getting a start in life don't exist anymore.
>>
>> Old opportunities have been replaced by new. We didn't have Linked-In
>> back then.
>>
>> The most significant chilling factor has undoubtedly been increased
>> regulation, not that some of it isn't necessary to protect the
>> vulnerable from predators.
>>
>>> When young people realise that, while their parents could afford a
>>> deposit on a house and get a mortgage on a single working class income
>>> in their 20s, today the deposit on a modest house is more than a full
>>> year's graduate income,
>>
>> Of course, houses are more sophisticated nowadays. My parents' fairly
>> new build when I was a University student didn't have central heating,
>> double glazing hadn't been invented, a fridge was a luxury and no such
>> thing as a fitted kitchen (we had a cupboard under the sink and one
>> wall-hanging unit). Let alone all the TVs, computers and other
>> paraphernalia will fill our houses with.
>
> From about 1915 to about 1992, with the exception of a a few brief
> peaks, the average house price in the UK was 4 to 5 times the average
> annual income. It is now 9 times. Fitting central heating, a modern
> kitchen, and all the modern gadgetry to a normal house does not cost
> 150,000 pounds, so the increase in price can not be explained on those
> grounds.

We moved house in suburban Manchester in 1968. My mother, who was a
teacher, complained that when she started teaching some 20 years before a 3
bedroom terraced house cost approximately 1 year’s salary. Now it was
around 3 years’s salary. We eventually bought a 5/6 bedroom Victorian semi
for £3,500. Typical teacher’s basic salaries were still under £1,000 IIUC.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 2023-03-07 17:41:32, Sam Wilson wrote:
> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps you believe in the Irish principle of 'Vote Early, Vote Often'?
>
> No, it’s that voter ID is being introduced to solve a problem that doesn’t
> exist - there are almost no examples of fraudulent voting under the current
> system

We don't know that. The current system isn't set up to detect it so we don't
know if there's fraudulent voting or not. If a fraudulent voter chooses to
vote in the name of someone they know won't vote it will never be detected.

Even if they pick a random name off the electoral register in most elections
there's a 2/3rds chance of the fraud not being detected. There's little
chance of finding the fraudster either - there's no CCTV at two polling
stations I'm familiar with.

> and yet legislation is being proposed to make it more difficult for
> some people to vote, people who will find it more difficult to present
> relevant ID.

People can get free ID online or from their local authority office, if
they haven't already got qualifying ID:
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/voter/voter-id/accepted-forms-photo-id

--
Graham Nye
news(a)thenyes.org.uk

On 07/03/2023 17:10, MB wrote:
> On 07/03/2023 16:21, Coffee wrote:
>> Not at all.  The voter suppression in this case is that the parties are
>> trying to prevent groups of people who don't support them.  In many
>> cases this will ethnic minorities particularly the young.
>
>
> Which vote are you claiming is being suppressed?
>
> Do you want all votes open to anyone to vote in, whatever their
> nationality and residence?
>
> Perhaps you believe in the Irish principle of 'Vote Early, Vote Often'?

The conservatives are requiring voters to show a photo ID when they
vote. It's not been well publicised anyway as you've not heard of it
until now you are living proof.

It's the young and the ethnic minorities who are least likely to have a
photo ID.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tu702b$brht$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:27:39 on Tue, 7 Mar
> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>> On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 02:23:06 +0000
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>> wrote:
>>>>> That "below 40%" is when the don't knows/don't cares/FOAMYOB are
>>>>
>>>> IOW a standard poll.
>>>>
>>> Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>> vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>> counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>> something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>> trying to prevent.
>>
>> You had your "once in a generation" vote. A generation is at least 20-25 years.
>> You don't keep having referendums until you get the vote you want.
>
> I vote for proper plurals, so multiple referenda, please.
>

Wrong I’m afraid. * added by me to make the point about the bit contained
within them.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/ps-political-science-and-politics/article/referendum-conundrum-referenda-or-referendums/FF2D4AAE426D7FCB68FE0056A1D4C78E

Scholars often use referenda as the plural for referendum. This choice is a
hypercorrection—it may sound like proper Latin, but it is not. Referendums
is always the correct choice. However, we maintain that there is value in
using referendums for multiple events and referenda for multiple
propositions.

…..

By choosing referenda over referendums, writers are using a
hypercorrection, or a construction that mistakenly uses a grammatical rule
in an effort to be correct. *Hypercorrection often occurs when a speaker
wants to use a rule that is commonly used by individuals with more power,
education, or prestige. * Writers who use referenda are employing
hypercorrection by using a pluralization that follows a rule applied to
similar words (e.g., agenda and memoranda) but is in fact incorrect,
because the rule does not apply to gerunds. Even if a scholar chooses the
term referendums, he or she may encounter a reviewer or editor who
hypercorrects the author's grammar.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tu73bo$cbtg$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:23:52 on Tue, 7 Mar
> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 10:02:50 +0000
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tu702b$brht$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:27:39 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 02:23:06 +0000
>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 09:26:52 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> That "below 40%" is when the don't knows/don't cares/FOAMYOB are
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IOW a standard poll.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Those who don't vote don't count; those who tell you to FOAMYOB might
>>>>> vote either way. There is also the aspect that the only poll which
>>>>> counts is the one which all voters have the opportunity to attend,
>>>>> something which only the Westminster government has been actively
>>>>> trying to prevent.
>>>>
>>>> You had your "once in a generation" vote. A generation is at least 20-25
>>> years.
>>>> You don't keep having referendums until you get the vote you want.
>>>
>>> I vote for proper plurals, so multiple referenda, please.
>>
>> Proper plurals in English generally have an 's' applied, sheep notwithstanding.
>> Using an 'a' instead is just being a latin snob :)
>
> Panini (singular is Panino).

Only in Italian. English has a long history of nicking other language’s
words. It doesn’t necessarily simultaneously nick the grammar rules.

According to Graham Nye <news@thenyes.org.uk>:
>> No, it’s that voter ID is being introduced to solve a problem that doesn’t
>> exist - there are almost no examples of fraudulent voting under the current
>> system
>
>We don't know that. The current system isn't set up to detect it so we don't
>know if there's fraudulent voting or not. If a fraudulent voter chooses to
>vote in the name of someone they know won't vote it will never be detected.

If I were trying to come up with the absolutely least effective way of
stealing an election, casting fake votes in person one at a time would
be it. A few milliseconds of thought should reveal that if a handful
of people did it, it would be unlikely to make any difference, while
if there were organized mass fake voting, it would be obvious that
something was wrong. Dunno how it works where you are, but here in the
U.S. the poll officials are mostly grey haired ladies from the
community who know a lot of the voters.

The way you steal an election is to stuff lots of ballots into the box,
preferably right after the polls close so you know how many you need.

We have this same stupid voter ID issue in the US, with people making
exactly the same stupid arguments, with the same goal of
disenfranchising the wrong kind of voter. In this partcular case, I
think you got the idea from us.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

According to Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>:
>> Panini (singular is Panino).
>
>Only in Italian. English has a long history of nicking other language’s
>words. It doesn’t necessarily simultaneously nick the grammar rules.

You're right. The data is clear about that.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly