On 08/04/2022 09:56, Graeme Wall wrote:
> There was a Suzuki (?) off-road wannabee that was very narrow and
> suffered a coupe of fatal roll-overs back in the 80s.

There were a few similar ones though I once stopped for the bogs and
elderly lady asked for help because of being in a 4WD.

She seemed to live off the main road and was quite worried with it being
so icy.

I had a look inside and it seemed to have low ratio so I suggest she put
it in low ratio bottom gear and just take her time - very unlikely to
get up to any speed because the engine would revving hard at anything
more than a couple of mph!

On 08/04/2022 10:37, Graeme Wall wrote:
> Basically yes, you get a vortex behind the vehicle that curls up from
> the road and then rotates round against the back of the car depositing
> crud as it goes.

I seem to remember I had one car where the aerodynamics kept the rear
window quite clean.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 10:52, Tweed wrote:
>> My 7 year old car has a reversing camera, a forward camera (with
>> differently selectable viewing angles) another camera to read the speed
>> limit signs, forward facing radar for the adaptive cruise control,
>> backwards facing radars for blind spot warning and umpteen ultrasonic
>> detectors. None have failed. Meanwhile I spent an awful lot getting a fuel
>> pump with a leaking seal replaced. It’s not the electronics that are
>> unreliable.
>
> Sounds to me that there are safety issues with one person trying to
> control and use that number of systems.
>
> All I tend to use on my VW is the speed limiter but it is so poorly
> designed that it is a major distraction trying to set it whilst driving.
>
> Typical of their designers, the handbook tells you to enable(?) the
> "main switch" but the "main switch" is not defined anywhere.
>
>
>

Why? The reversing camera comes on when I reverse. The front camera is
designed to be used when you are poking the car nose out of a blind
junction. (Press a button to turn on). The speed sign reader does it all
without user intervention. The blind spot radars simply illuminate a yellow
led on the appropriate wing mirror and the forward facing radar is an input
to the adaptive cruise control.

I find the speed limiter to be very well implemented. Turn on at start of
trip by pressing a button, it uses a GPS database of speed limits, which
get overridden by signs that the camera reads. If you don’t like the
maximum speed it sets you can increment/decrement it by steering wheel
buttons, or turn it off. A sharp jab on the accelerator will override the
limit as well. It manages to read the motorway variable limits and even
knows about metric speeds when I’m in France. Even the little speed limit
stickers on the back of commercial vehicles fail to confuse it.

On 08/04/2022 11:26, MB wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 10:37, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> Basically yes, you get a vortex behind the vehicle that curls up from
>> the road and then rotates round against the back of the car depositing
>> crud as it goes.
>
> I seem to remember I had one car where the aerodynamics kept the rear
> window quite clean.
>

Hatchback or saloon?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <t2khks$ts9$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:11:56 on Wed, 6 Apr 2022,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
><martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 05/04/2022 04:12, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:50:50 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t2ean5$181m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:36:53 on Mon, 4 Apr
>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>> Plus they're all shorter than my very normal estate car, and all but the
>>>>>>> 110 are shorter or the same as my very normal hatchback.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And much higher.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why does that matter?
>>>>
>>>> Multi story car parks, ferries, eurotunnel, roll over.
>>>
>>> Wait but you just suggested getting a Transit as an alternative. Which is
>>> surely even higher?
>>
>> Not only that but they're notorious for bashing bridges. Can you
>> imagine Chelsea Tractor drivers driving a Transit under a bridge
>> worrying about fitting under bridges? They're more interesting in
>> getting their children to school nine seconds earlier.
>
>I think we're talking Transit Tourneo
><https://www.ford.co.uk/cars/tourneo-custom> rather than Roland's favourite
>Luton-bodies.

Not very many of the vans I write about are Lutons, they often have just
a wind deflector over the cab, or older ones are just a just a box.
--
Roland Perry

In message <t2k7mt$184q$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:22:21 on Wed, 6 Apr
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:27:59 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <t2jgkj$1m2e$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 07:48:36 on Wed, 6 Apr
>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 08:29:02 +0100
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>In any event, I suspect many such vehicles are actually All Wheel Drive,
>>>>a poor man's 4WD that I get the impression is more about loss of
>>>
>>>There's no practical difference between 4x4/4WD/AWD in road cars, its just
>>>different marketing terminology. Some have locking diffs, some don't. Some
>>>have a centre lock, some don't.
>>
>>We know from your postings so far you don't have a clue about this
>>stuff.
>
>And you don't seem to understand that marketing depts don't care about your
>pedantic definition of the terminology and given almost all 4x4s have
>some kind of wheel slip control and power transfer the distinctions are pretty
>much redundant anyway.

When they get into difficulty, the drivers will start to understand not
to swallow the marketing material quite so easily.

>>>I doubt many transmission diffs could operate fast enough to "feather" the
>>>wheels in the sense you mean. Thats the province of the ABS system.
>>
>>The Freelander 2 feathers every 15 degrees of wheel turn. I thought I'd
>>already mentioned that.
>
>Up to what speed? 100mph for rallying?

I don't think people rally Freelanders, they don't have enough engine
power. And for road use 70mph is sufficient, although even that is too
fast if the road is slippery.

>>>>On a dry road, I don't believe modern 4x4 are worse than family cars.
>>>
>>>They will be if they're on off road tyres.
>>
>>Disagree. I've never even had the ABS kick in on my Freelander. It just
>>stops.
>
>Disagree all you want. Why do you think circuit racing cars use slicks?

Again, I'm comparing with ordinary family cars.
--
Roland Perry

In message <t2kar8$djc$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:15:52 on Wed, 6 Apr 2022,
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t2hnr5$cle$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:39:17 on Tue, 5 Apr
>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 14:59:01 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t2f0gj$7so$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:48:51 on Mon, 4 Apr
>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:47:04 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> If they'd fix the roads (both potholes and sink holes, and crumbling
>>>>>>>> edges) I'd swap it for something less thirsty. But you've still got the
>>>>>>>> Queen Adelaide level-crossings, where I sail over at 30mph[1] like it
>>>>>>>> wasn't there, whereas 20mph in a regular car feels like it's going to
>>>>>>>> fall apart.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why not just buy a Humvee and be done with it? Or get an HGV license and
>>>>>>> a 3rd hand scania with 1M miles for 10K?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now you are just being silly.
>>>>>
>>>>> And you weren't when justifying owning an SUV so you can go over a level
>>>>> crossing at speed without feeling the bumps?
>>>>
>>>> That's just one of the big bumps I'd go over on a typical journey. I
>>>> don't think you realise how bad the roads are here.
>>>
>>> I've driven on some bad roads. None of them made me think "yes, I wish I'd
>>> bought an ungainly, slow, ugly SUV with a cramped interior".
>>
>> That's OK, because I haven't either. But I do get a bit frustrated
>> sometimes when on a road I could easily do 60mph, and a car is crawling
>> along at 40mph because that's all which feels safe to them (and unless
>> you race from bump to bump and brake, that's very understandable).
>
>And considering that in your area the bumps are rarely signed, that seems
>very sensible.

They aren't individually signed, but there's often a "Dromedaries in the
road" sign at the start of a fairly long section.
--
Roland Perry

In message <t2hnh7$795$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:33:59 on Tue, 5 Apr
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 15:04:31 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <t2f0er$6qn$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:47:55 on Mon, 4 Apr
>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:46:35 +0100
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <t2eagc$14qj$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:33:16 on Mon, 4 Apr
>>>>>And happens to be much higher and also more prone to rolling over.
>>>>
>>>>I know Prince Philip's one rolled over, but that wasn't because he went
>>>>round a bend too fast.
>>>
>>>Plenty of SUVs roll in accidents. Go have a look on youtube. To get a normal
>>>car to roll usually involves hitting an obstruction, with an SUV it
>>>can simply
>>
>>>be a skid.
>>
>>Don't believe you.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkdAmyTR8TU
>
>4:10

In that case, the obstruction hit her - the police car deliberately
rammed her.

>>>>You think bumping up kerbs in a family car with low profile tyres is a
>>>>sensible thing to do?
>>>
>>>Who said anything about low profile tyres?
>>
>>I did, it's what most family cars have.
>
>No they don't. Unless you have a wierd definition of low profile.

They are everywhere.

>>>Plus plenty of SUV owners fit them too.
>>
>>If they do (and I've

Typo; Not

>>seen them on a Freelander) then they'll know to be
>
>They do. You need to get out more from your tithe village a bit more often and
>look at some of the blinged up rubbish driving around cities.

Those won't be Freelanders. Fullsize Range Rovers and Evoques, perhaps.

>>>And if you need to pull something heavy buy a pickup, they're usually
>>>rated with a higher max towing weight anyway.
>>
>>So now I need a family car, *plus* a pickup?
>
>If you cared about a decent car for the family you wouldn't buy an SUV

Why? They are roomy and comfortable. In fact my Honda Pilot was one of
the most comfortable cars I've had (which include large Mercedes
saloons, classic Volvo estates etc).

>so clearly what interests you is size and 4x4. So get a pickup. They
>all have 4 seats.

Sorry, I don't want to look like a redneck. I also prefer the load space
to be rain-proof.
--
Roland Perry

In message <arrl4htdorl3rjbqe1kja44mhpr4jnhlb9@4ax.com>, at 14:15:47 on
Mon, 4 Apr 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 14:07:30 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <t2eq1o$4n9$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:58:31 on Mon, 4 Apr 2022,
>>MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>
>>>> The thing about a Freelander 2 is it's pretty close to a normal largish
>>>> estate car (inside and to drive) but just happens to be really good on
>>>> rough/slippery roads, plus if you need to traverse the odd muddy field,
>>>> or bump up the odd kerb, it takes it completely in its stride.
>>>
>>>I had similar thoughts about our Freelander 1s (presumably 1), we had
>>>them for visiting sites up steep rough tracks so they were unsuitable.
>>>If carrying a load (which we often did) it would bottom, if you
>>>reversed up a hill then the clutch would overheat and start smoking.
>>
>>Yes, the Freelander 1 didn't get very good off-road reviews. I doubt a
>>CRV would have been any better.
>
>Probably much better built, though?

I was considering one due to Honda's reputation for reliability. But the
second gen model I was looking at (later ones are too saloon-car-ish)
were all a bit long in the tooth.
--
Roland Perry

In message <t2kik4$90j$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:36 on Wed, 6 Apr 2022,
MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 06/04/2022 14:18, Roland Perry wrote:
>> How did the Freelander 1's HDC cope?
>
>I think I only used HDC a couple of times and would not even try it on
>ice unless there was plenty of room so not likely to hit anything.

I don't think it's meant for ice. I doubt any drive train could do a
30-degree icy slope.
--
Roland Perry

In message <t2hnn3$b2v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:37:08 on Tue, 5 Apr
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 09:33:10 +0100
>martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>On 05/04/2022 04:12, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:50:50 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t2ean5$181m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:36:53 on Mon, 4 Apr
>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>> Plus they're all shorter than my very normal estate car, and all but the
>>>>>>> 110 are shorter or the same as my very normal hatchback.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And much higher.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why does that matter?
>>>>
>>>> Multi story car parks, ferries, eurotunnel, roll over.
>>>
>>> Wait but you just suggested getting a Transit as an alternative. Which is
>>> surely even higher?
>>
>>Not only that but they're notorious for bashing bridges. Can you
>
>How many bridges are there that a standard transit can't fit under?

Standard ones not, but people put roof-racks on them, or ladders; and
the second most bashed bridge locally is only 6'6"

<http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Stonea-15-Oct-2019.jpg>
--
Roland Perry

In message <u1tl4h5g6l6kk60v3hbvufe3menupg4i77@4ax.com>, at 14:36:30 on
Mon, 4 Apr 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 14:09:45 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <31ql4h5q7jcs60akhnals9f8bmah06ud9f@4ax.com>, at 13:46:02 on
>>Mon, 4 Apr 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 13:32:17 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <4ull4h59f8nqtj6iv6ov443p8j9bjat9hb@4ax.com>, at 12:35:06 on
>>>>Mon, 4 Apr 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 06:18:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In message <t2d4s2$ns8$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:50:58 on Sun, 3 Apr 2022,
>>>>>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some vehicles - the Fiat Multipla is one - have a separate
>>>>>>>>mirror segment angled down so you can see the kerb. It’s
>>>>>>>>really useful and I’ve missed it ever since our Multipla went its way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Most large, commercial vehicles have multi-segment mirrors, but it's
>>>>>>>uncommon with family cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I thought most Volvos had them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>More commonly, the nearside mirror automatically dips when you select
>>>>>>>reverse gear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Never seen one of those.
>>>>>
>>>>>Standard on my cars since 1998.
>>>>
>>>>We are rapidly proving that one person's anecdata (mine or yours) in
>>>>this regard, isn't giving a particularly broad view of the marketplace.
>>>
>>>I was simply pointing out that it's a standard feature on many modern
>>>cars (and premium cars from decades ago).
>>>
>>>And you were saying you wouldn't know, as you've never driven a modern
>>
>>I have (albeit only rentals). What's your excuse for not having seen
>>segmented mirrors?
>
>Why do I need an excuse for being right?

OK, Volvos plus whatever else has them) are "uncommon", if you wish.
--
Roland Perry

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 11:26, MB wrote:
>> On 08/04/2022 10:37, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> Basically yes, you get a vortex behind the vehicle that curls up from
>>> the road and then rotates round against the back of the car depositing
>>> crud as it goes.
>>
>> I seem to remember I had one car where the aerodynamics kept the rear
>> window quite clean.
>>
>
> Hatchback or saloon?

About 30 years ago a former colleague had a small Japanese 3-box saloon - I
can’t remember the make now but the model wasn’t a common one - and it had
a rear screen wiper. The colleague said it really needed it.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t2kar8$djc$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:15:52 on Wed, 6 Apr 2022,
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t2hnr5$cle$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:39:17 on Tue, 5 Apr
>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 14:59:01 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t2f0gj$7so$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:48:51 on Mon, 4 Apr
>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:47:04 +0100
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> If they'd fix the roads (both potholes and sink holes, and crumbling
>>>>>>>>> edges) I'd swap it for something less thirsty. But you've still got the
>>>>>>>>> Queen Adelaide level-crossings, where I sail over at 30mph[1] like it
>>>>>>>>> wasn't there, whereas 20mph in a regular car feels like it's going to
>>>>>>>>> fall apart.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why not just buy a Humvee and be done with it? Or get an HGV license and
>>>>>>>> a 3rd hand scania with 1M miles for 10K?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now you are just being silly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you weren't when justifying owning an SUV so you can go over a level
>>>>>> crossing at speed without feeling the bumps?
>>>>>
>>>>> That's just one of the big bumps I'd go over on a typical journey. I
>>>>> don't think you realise how bad the roads are here.
>>>>
>>>> I've driven on some bad roads. None of them made me think "yes, I wish I'd
>>>> bought an ungainly, slow, ugly SUV with a cramped interior".
>>>
>>> That's OK, because I haven't either. But I do get a bit frustrated
>>> sometimes when on a road I could easily do 60mph, and a car is crawling
>>> along at 40mph because that's all which feels safe to them (and unless
>>> you race from bump to bump and brake, that's very understandable).
>>
>> And considering that in your area the bumps are rarely signed, that seems
>> very sensible.
>
> They aren't individually signed, but there's often a "Dromedaries in the
> road" sign at the start of a fairly long section.

When I first visited your area a few years ago a family member had to warn
me about a particularly iffy bit near Little Downham - I think it was on
California or Main Drove heading north - which wasn’t signed. It was
suggested I should drive on the wrong side of the road for a bit.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <t2ot12$rqq$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:50:42 on Fri, 8 Apr 2022,
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>>>> Like the Honda (CR-V?) we were driving behind in the dark the other day
>>>> whose rear view mirror was clearly a video screen?
>>>
>>> Yes. Cameras are much smaller, and can be fitted at the ends of
>>>slender stalks or on the boot lid or roof. The stalk-mounted ones
>>>produce much less wind resistance than door mirrors, and a stalk
>>>can contain more than one camera. You might, for example want to see
>>>a different view when reversing than in your rear view 'mirror'
>>>when driving forwards. You might also want the view on a different screen.

>> Loads more stuff to go wrong. I bet the dealers are rubbing their
>>hands gleefully already.
>
>How often does the camera in your mobile phone fail?

Not so far. But then it's not screwed to the outside of a car, and
expected to have 15yr working life.

>Oh sorry, I forgot you don't have such a modern piece of technology.

As it happens I ordered a new one today (the battery has died on the
previous one, only about a quarter original capacity; about two years
old).

That's at least the tenth I've owned (literally lost count).

That's if we are counting smartphones. I've had a *mobile* phone since
1987 (Cellnet analogue).

First with a camera? Hmm, probably his one, 2006; I remember posting
this photo here, I think:

<http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Tea-Tanker.jpg>

(Digitally re-mastered today). A good example of "the best camera you
have, is the one you happen to have with you".
--
Roland Perry

On 08/04/2022 14:57, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 08/04/2022 11:26, MB wrote:
>>> On 08/04/2022 10:37, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> Basically yes, you get a vortex behind the vehicle that curls up from
>>>> the road and then rotates round against the back of the car depositing
>>>> crud as it goes.
>>>
>>> I seem to remember I had one car where the aerodynamics kept the rear
>>> window quite clean.
>>>
>>
>> Hatchback or saloon?
>
> About 30 years ago a former colleague had a small Japanese 3-box saloon - I
> can’t remember the make now but the model wasn’t a common one - and it had
> a rear screen wiper. The colleague said it really needed it.
>

Vaguely remember something like that, it only just had a boot, a bit
like a Riley Elf.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 14:28:24 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t2hnh7$795$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:33:59 on Tue, 5 Apr
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>Don't believe you.
>>
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkdAmyTR8TU
>>
>>4:10
>
>In that case, the obstruction hit her - the police car deliberately
>rammed her.

Irrelevant. The police car didn't make it roll, the skid did.

>>>I did, it's what most family cars have.
>>
>>No they don't. Unless you have a wierd definition of low profile.
>
>They are everywhere.

They're common, but they're not on the majority of cars.

>>They do. You need to get out more from your tithe village a bit more often and
>
>>look at some of the blinged up rubbish driving around cities.
>
>Those won't be Freelanders. Fullsize Range Rovers and Evoques, perhaps.

You'd be amazed what cars people spend money on tarting up.

>>If you cared about a decent car for the family you wouldn't buy an SUV
>
>Why? They are roomy and comfortable. In fact my Honda Pilot was one of

For their size they're almost all inverse tardises. If you want legroom get
a decent sized saloon car.

On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 14:40:16 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t2hnn3$b2v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:37:08 on Tue, 5 Apr
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 09:33:10 +0100
>>martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>On 05/04/2022 04:12, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:50:50 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t2ean5$181m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:36:53 on Mon, 4 Apr
>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>> Plus they're all shorter than my very normal estate car, and all but
>the
>>>>>>>> 110 are shorter or the same as my very normal hatchback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And much higher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why does that matter?
>>>>>
>>>>> Multi story car parks, ferries, eurotunnel, roll over.
>>>>
>>>> Wait but you just suggested getting a Transit as an alternative. Which is
>>>> surely even higher?
>>>
>>>Not only that but they're notorious for bashing bridges. Can you
>>
>>How many bridges are there that a standard transit can't fit under?
>
>Standard ones not, but people put roof-racks on them, or ladders; and
>the second most bashed bridge locally is only 6'6"
>
> <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Stonea-15-Oct-2019.jpg>

Spot the quality French welding. Unless they still use rivets. Wouldn't put
it past them.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 14:57, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 08/04/2022 11:26, MB wrote:
>>>> On 08/04/2022 10:37, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> Basically yes, you get a vortex behind the vehicle that curls up from
>>>>> the road and then rotates round against the back of the car depositing
>>>>> crud as it goes.
>>>>
>>>> I seem to remember I had one car where the aerodynamics kept the rear
>>>> window quite clean.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hatchback or saloon?
>>
>> About 30 years ago a former colleague had a small Japanese 3-box saloon - I
>> can’t remember the make now but the model wasn’t a common one - and it had
>> a rear screen wiper. The colleague said it really needed it.
>>
>
> Vaguely remember something like that, it only just had a boot, a bit
> like a Riley Elf.

Oooh, no - there must have been more than one. This was a standard small
saloon.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
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In message <t2pf7d$hh4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:01:17 on Fri, 8 Apr 2022,
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t2kar8$djc$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:15:52 on Wed, 6 Apr 2022,
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t2hnr5$cle$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:39:17 on Tue, 5 Apr
>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 14:59:01 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t2f0gj$7so$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:48:51 on Mon, 4 Apr
>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:47:04 +0100
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> If they'd fix the roads (both potholes and sink holes, and crumbling
>>>>>>>>>> edges) I'd swap it for something less thirsty. But you've
>>>>>>>>>>still got the
>>>>>>>>>> Queen Adelaide level-crossings, where I sail over at 30mph[1] like it
>>>>>>>>>> wasn't there, whereas 20mph in a regular car feels like it's going to
>>>>>>>>>> fall apart.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why not just buy a Humvee and be done with it? Or get an HGV
>>>>>>>>>license and
>>>>>>>>> a 3rd hand scania with 1M miles for 10K?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now you are just being silly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And you weren't when justifying owning an SUV so you can go over a level
>>>>>>> crossing at speed without feeling the bumps?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's just one of the big bumps I'd go over on a typical journey. I
>>>>>> don't think you realise how bad the roads are here.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've driven on some bad roads. None of them made me think "yes, I wish I'd
>>>>> bought an ungainly, slow, ugly SUV with a cramped interior".
>>>>
>>>> That's OK, because I haven't either. But I do get a bit frustrated
>>>> sometimes when on a road I could easily do 60mph, and a car is crawling
>>>> along at 40mph because that's all which feels safe to them (and unless
>>>> you race from bump to bump and brake, that's very understandable).
>>>
>>> And considering that in your area the bumps are rarely signed, that seems
>>> very sensible.
>>
>> They aren't individually signed, but there's often a "Dromedaries in the
>> road" sign at the start of a fairly long section.
>
>When I first visited your area a few years ago a family member had to warn
>me about a particularly iffy bit near Little Downham - I think it was on
>California or Main Drove heading north - which wasn’t signed. It was
>suggested I should drive on the wrong side of the road for a bit.

The level crossing on Blank Bank Rd is quite fierce.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t2khks$ts9$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:11:56 on Wed, 6 Apr 2022,
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 05/04/2022 04:12, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:50:50 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t2ean5$181m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:36:53 on Mon, 4 Apr
>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>> Plus they're all shorter than my very normal estate car, and all but the
>>>>>>>> 110 are shorter or the same as my very normal hatchback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And much higher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why does that matter?
>>>>>
>>>>> Multi story car parks, ferries, eurotunnel, roll over.
>>>>
>>>> Wait but you just suggested getting a Transit as an alternative. Which is
>>>> surely even higher?
>>>
>>> Not only that but they're notorious for bashing bridges. Can you
>>> imagine Chelsea Tractor drivers driving a Transit under a bridge
>>> worrying about fitting under bridges? They're more interesting in
>>> getting their children to school nine seconds earlier.
>>
>> I think we're talking Transit Tourneo
>> <https://www.ford.co.uk/cars/tourneo-custom> rather than Roland's favourite
>> Luton-bodies.
>
> Not very many of the vans I write about are Lutons, they often have just
> a wind deflector over the cab, or older ones are just a just a box.
>

Now you mention that, I remember you mentioning that.

Replace 'luton' with 'box' when reading my reply.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t2hnn3$b2v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:37:08 on Tue, 5 Apr
> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>> On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 09:33:10 +0100
>> martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>> On 05/04/2022 04:12, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:50:50 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t2ean5$181m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:36:53 on Mon, 4 Apr
>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>> Plus they're all shorter than my very normal estate car, and all but the
>>>>>>>> 110 are shorter or the same as my very normal hatchback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And much higher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why does that matter?
>>>>>
>>>>> Multi story car parks, ferries, eurotunnel, roll over.
>>>>
>>>> Wait but you just suggested getting a Transit as an alternative. Which is
>>>> surely even higher?
>>>
>>> Not only that but they're notorious for bashing bridges. Can you
>>
>> How many bridges are there that a standard transit can't fit under?
>
> Standard ones not, but people put roof-racks on them, or ladders; and
> the second most bashed bridge locally is only 6'6"
>
> <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Stonea-15-Oct-2019.jpg>

That van isn't going to be replacing the family Discovery, though, is it?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 08/04/2022 14:28, Roland Perry wrote:
> Sorry, I don't want to look like a redneck. I also prefer the load space
> to be rain-proof.

Even if you put one of the hard covers over the open area, they do not
look very secure - of course on other vehicles you can easily smash a
window and with earlier Range Rovers you did not even have to do that!

Someone at another company chose to have one and apparently even with
hard top, it leaked like a sieve.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t2pf7d$hh4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:01:17 on Fri, 8 Apr 2022,
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t2kar8$djc$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:15:52 on Wed, 6 Apr 2022,
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t2hnr5$cle$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:39:17 on Tue, 5 Apr
>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>> On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 14:59:01 +0100
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t2f0gj$7so$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:48:51 on Mon, 4 Apr
>>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:47:04 +0100
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> If they'd fix the roads (both potholes and sink holes, and crumbling
>>>>>>>>>>> edges) I'd swap it for something less thirsty. But you've
>>>>>>>>>>> still got the
>>>>>>>>>>> Queen Adelaide level-crossings, where I sail over at 30mph[1] like it
>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't there, whereas 20mph in a regular car feels like it's going to
>>>>>>>>>>> fall apart.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why not just buy a Humvee and be done with it? Or get an HGV
>>>>>>>>>> license and
>>>>>>>>>> a 3rd hand scania with 1M miles for 10K?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now you are just being silly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And you weren't when justifying owning an SUV so you can go over a level
>>>>>>>> crossing at speed without feeling the bumps?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's just one of the big bumps I'd go over on a typical journey. I
>>>>>>> don't think you realise how bad the roads are here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've driven on some bad roads. None of them made me think "yes, I wish I'd
>>>>>> bought an ungainly, slow, ugly SUV with a cramped interior".
>>>>>
>>>>> That's OK, because I haven't either. But I do get a bit frustrated
>>>>> sometimes when on a road I could easily do 60mph, and a car is crawling
>>>>> along at 40mph because that's all which feels safe to them (and unless
>>>>> you race from bump to bump and brake, that's very understandable).
>>>>
>>>> And considering that in your area the bumps are rarely signed, that seems
>>>> very sensible.
>>>
>>> They aren't individually signed, but there's often a "Dromedaries in the
>>> road" sign at the start of a fairly long section.
>>
>> When I first visited your area a few years ago a family member had to warn
>> me about a particularly iffy bit near Little Downham - I think it was on
>> California or Main Drove heading north - which wasn’t signed. It was
>> suggested I should drive on the wrong side of the road for a bit.
>
> The level crossing on Blank Bank Rd is quite fierce.

Ah, yes, I think I drove across that last year!

Sam

--
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Spit the dummy to reply

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 10:52, Tweed wrote:
>> My 7 year old car has a reversing camera, a forward camera (with
>> differently selectable viewing angles) another camera to read the speed
>> limit signs, forward facing radar for the adaptive cruise control,
>> backwards facing radars for blind spot warning and umpteen ultrasonic
>> detectors. None have failed. Meanwhile I spent an awful lot getting a fuel
>> pump with a leaking seal replaced. It’s not the electronics that are
>> unreliable.
>
> Sounds to me that there are safety issues with one person trying to
> control and use that number of systems.
>

Why? It's all seamless. The current speed restriction appears in the dash
display. If you indicate, and there's a car in your blind spot, the
indicator is accompanied by beeping and an orange light in the corner of
the wing mirror. If the car thinks you're not braking hard enough to avoid
collision with an object in front it beeps loudly and flashes a large
warning on the dash display. If you wander out of lane without indicating
it beeps and vibrates the steering wheel. When you select reverse, you get
the rear view camera, the 360° camera and proximity sensor beeps and colour
indication, on the centre console display. You can get the same at low
speeds by pressing the 'camera' button next to the display. There's no
workload of 'controlling and using' these systems.

Anna Noyd-Dryver