On 2022-04-05, John McGaw <Nobody@Nowh.ere> wrote:
>>
>> How long does it take _you_ to charge your phone from dead to full?
>
> No idea. I've never had my Pixel 6 Pro get below maybe 40% after a
> full day of use and I can't see any reason to drain it on purpose.

Same with my iPhones for the past several years. I charge them at night
while I sleep, they are fully charged when I wake up, and they last all
day every day without needing a recharge. The fast charging craze is
mostly overblown hype to those of us who rarely if ever need such a
thing.

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On 2022-04-05, John McGaw <Nobody@Nowh.ere> wrote:
>
> At home I just put the phone on the bedside wireless charger every
> night and forget about it until I get up in the morning and almost
> never look at the battery level.

It's quite nice, right? There's a certain amount of stress related to
constantly worrying about your battery that I am perfectly happy not to
hold day to day. There are way better things to stress about.

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On 2022-04-05 3:50 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Meh. They all charge my iPhone, which is what actually matters.
>
> The only reason Apple removed the charger is because Apple's strategy is to
> remove a key functionality each year from the entire iPhone model lineup.
>
> Frog. Boiling. Water. === Apple. Customer. iPhone.

For a "man" who claims he only speaks the facts, that's a very strange
assertion to be making.

Where are your facts to back it up?

On 4/5/2022 2:50 PM, John McGaw wrote:
> On 4/5/2022 4:21 PM, sms wrote:
>> On 4/5/2022 12:44 PM, John McGaw wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> No idea. I've never had my Pixel 6 Pro get below maybe 40% after a
>>> full day of use and I can't see any reason to drain it on purpose.
>>
>> I try not to let my phones get below 20%.
>>
>> When I do charging measurements I let it go from 20% to 100% and I
>> monitor the AC WH <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RNFQTL9> and a USB-C
>> PD tester <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000349886468.html>.
>
> I guess that you have _way_ more curiosity about it than I do then.

I do. One reason was to prove that the amount of extra electricity used
for wireless charging is so minuscule that it has no effect on climate
change.

In article <t2ime0$5t9$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> One reason was to prove that the amount of extra electricity used
> for wireless charging is so minuscule that it has no effect on climate
> change.

multiplied by a couple of billion phones, it absolutely does.

On 4/5/2022 4:04 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-04-05 3:50 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> Jolly Roger wrote:
>>
>>> Meh. They all charge my iPhone, which is what actually matters.
>>
>> The only reason Apple removed the charger is because Apple's strategy
>> is to
>> remove a key functionality each year from the entire iPhone model lineup.
>>
>> Frog. Boiling. Water. === Apple. Customer. iPhone.
>
> For a "man" who claims he only speaks the facts, that's a very strange
> assertion to be making.

It's also wrong.

Sure there have been a few things removed over the years, specifically
the headphone jack, 3D Touch, TouchID, and the included charger, but
it's been twp years since they stopped including chargers. The reason
they stopped including the charger was to save money and increase sales
of high-power wired and wireless chargers but no functionality was
removed, it just increased the cost to iPhone buyers.

The only key functionality that appears to have been removed between the
12 and 13 is noise cancellation for phone calls
<https://www.idropnews.com/news/did-apple-deliberately-remove-noise-cancellation-from-the-iphone-13/177417/>.

One minor annoyance I noticed when going from my 6s Plus to my Xr was
the loss of the battery percentage indicator in the top-right corner of
the screen, but that went away beginning with the X and apparently was
related t the loss of screen real estate due to the notch. As the notch
shrinks in future iPhones, perhaps that indicator will come back.

On 2022-04-05 5:33 p.m., nospam wrote:
> In article <t2ime0$5t9$1@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> One reason was to prove that the amount of extra electricity used
>> for wireless charging is so minuscule that it has no effect on climate
>> change.
>
> multiplied by a couple of billion phones, it absolutely does.

In the larger context of how much electricity is used overall...

....I very much doubt it.

Total world electrical consumption was nearly 24,000 terawatt-hours in 2019.

In 2020, there were about 14 billion mobile devices.

If each one had the 5,000 milliwatt-hour battery that Arlen likes to
pretend comes in all modern smartphones...

....and if each one were completely drained and recharged each day...

....that would consume about 25.5 terawatt-hours of electricity...

....or just about one TENTH of 1% of all the electrical consumption on
the planet...

Assume that wireless charging cuts the efficiency in half, and we're
still only talking about two tenths of one percent of all the world's
electrical consumption.

And that is only with 14 BILLION 5 watt-hour battery smartphones!

If we just go down to your "couple of billion" but still keep the
ridiculous battery size and usage, and we're looking at 3 ONE-HUNDREDTHS
of one percent.

I can only suggest you learn to do sanity checking before you begin to
pontificate.

:-)

In article <t2incv$bv7$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> >>
> >> The only reason Apple removed the charger is because Apple's strategy
> >> is to
> >> remove a key functionality each year from the entire iPhone model lineup.
> >>
> >> Frog. Boiling. Water. === Apple. Customer. iPhone.
> >
> > For a "man" who claims he only speaks the facts, that's a very strange
> > assertion to be making.
>
> It's also wrong.

both it and what you wrote below are wrong.

> Sure there have been a few things removed over the years, specifically
> the headphone jack, 3D Touch, TouchID, and the included charger, but
> it's been twp years since they stopped including chargers.

apple also *added* numerous features that are more widely used than
what you listed above (except for touch id which has not been removed),
including multi-lens cameras, truedepth camera, lidar, magsafe, wide
gamut colour-managed displays, hdr and xdr displays, variable rate
refresh, uwb, esim cinematic mode, spatial audio, hardware accelerated
heif/hevc, thread, walking steadiness and a lot more i can't think of
right now.

as for touch id, last *month*, apple released a new iphone with touch
id. so much for removing it.

lastly, all iphones have a headphone jack. the only difference is that
it's now digital, making it more reliable and with more features than
the older analog headphone jack.

> The reason
> they stopped including the charger was to save money and increase sales
> of high-power wired and wireless chargers but no functionality was
> removed, it just increased the cost to iPhone buyers.

false. first of all, it saves users money by removing it since they
don't have to pay for something they won't be using.

second, apple did *not* remove it to increase sales of 'high-power
chargers', which don't even need to be from apple. if someone is going
to buy such a charger, which relatively few do, there are many
*non-apple* options, so apple is actually driving revenue to their
competitors, the very opposite of what you claim.

> The only key functionality that appears to have been removed between the
> 12 and 13 is noise cancellation for phone calls

also false. noise cancellation has not been removed and works quite
well.

nospam wrote:

>> It's also wrong.
>
> both it and what you wrote below are wrong.

First off, you shouldn't reply to Alan Baker because then we have to wade
through what a kindergarten kid's brain sounds like when it's also stupid.

An _educated_ person would know the difference between a fact and an opinion
where all iKooks are so extremely uneducated, you can't tell the difference.

Here is an example of a _fact_:
*Apple removed the charger*

Here is an example of an _opinion_:
*Apple did it to force a buying decision that you used to not need to make*

After that, if you uneducated low-IQ low-self-esteem iKook morons still
can't tell the difference between a fact and an opinion, don't blame me.

Blame your parents.

sms wrote:

> It's also wrong.

Steve isn't an iKook because he's actually educated and his self esteem
isn't indelibly tied into Apple slogans but Steve is incredibly stupid.

Someone tell Steve what the difference is between a FACT & an OPINION.

The fact is Apple removed the charger.
It's also a fact that Apple "said" they did it for the kids (so to speak).

But it's an opinion as to whether Apple lied about why they did it.
And it's an opinion as to why I think Apple did it.

You can't say my opinion is an incorrect fact unless you're too stupid
to know what the difference between a fact and an opinion is.

And if you are that stupid, well, then you just prove my point, don't you.

It's not shocking that Alan Baker doesn't know the difference between a fact
and an opinion - but I would expect Steve to not be as stupid as Alan is.

On 2022-04-05 6:24 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> It's also wrong.
>>
>> both it and what you wrote below are wrong.
>
> First off, you shouldn't reply to Alan Baker because then we have to wade
> through what a kindergarten kid's brain sounds like when it's also stupid.
>
> An _educated_ person would know the difference between a fact and an
> opinion
> where all iKooks are so extremely uneducated, you can't tell the
> difference.
>
> Here is an example of a _fact_:
> *Apple removed the charger*

That is a fact.

Very good.

>
> Here is an example of an _opinion_:
> *Apple did it to force a buying decision that you used to not need to make*

Here is another fact:

You have claimed that you never post anything except facts...

....and that is clearly a lie.

On 2022-04-05 6:28 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> sms wrote:
>
>> It's also wrong.
>
> Steve isn't an iKook because he's actually educated and his self esteem
> isn't indelibly tied into Apple slogans but Steve is incredibly stupid.
>
> Someone tell Steve what the difference is between a FACT & an OPINION.
>
> The fact is Apple removed the charger.

That is a fact.

> It's also a fact that Apple "said" they did it for the kids (so to speak).

No. Apple did not say that.

>
> But it's an opinion as to whether Apple lied about why they did it.
> And it's an opinion as to why I think Apple did it.

And yet you have stated that you only post facts.

>
> You can't say my opinion is an incorrect fact unless you're too stupid
> to know what the difference between a fact and an opinion is.

I can say that it's an opinion that you haven't supported.

>
> And if you are that stupid, well, then you just prove my point, don't you.
>
> It's not shocking that Alan Baker doesn't know the difference between a
> fact
> and an opinion - but I would expect Steve to not be as stupid as Alan is.

On 4/6/2022 1:51 AM, nospam wrote:

> because most of the time, fast charging is not needed, for any phone,
> not just iphones. charge it overnight and it lasts at least a day,
> often longer.

Just like having credit cards in your pocket, a fast charger is convenient
when you need it & you don't have all day or all night to charge the phone.

On 4/5/2022 7:00 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Same with my iPhones for the past several years. I charge them at night
> while I sleep, they are fully charged when I wake up, and they last all
> day every day without needing a recharge. The fast charging craze is
> mostly overblown hype to those of us who rarely if ever need such a
> thing.

Sometimes you use the iPhone more than you normally do or you forget to
charge it or you're out all night or you check into your hotel late and you
have early meetings the next morning or any of a million things that could
prevent you from enjoying your full night every night slow charging cycle.

There's a great amount of convenience to fast charging that's really useful.

You don't want that convenience but if you ever needed it, it would be nice
convenience to have for free.

On 4/6/2022 1:55 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:

>>>> Most people upgrading their iPhone to one that supports fast
>>>> charging don't already own a fast charger.
>>>
>>> most people don't need a fast charger. they charge overnight, where
>>> how long it takes does not matter.
>>
>> If you paid dearly for a fancy iPhone that can fast charge why
>> wouldn't you want your fancy iPhone to charge at the fast speeds you
>> already paid for?
>
> Because faster charging generates more heat, which lessens the overall
> lifespan of a battery. And if my routine is already to charge my device
> while I sleep, there's literally no benefit in needlessly decreasing the
> overall lifespan of my battery simply "because I can". Also, I'd have
> to spend money on a fast charge power adapter for no real gain. No
> thanks.

There are times you're in a rush and with the slow charger you don't get
anywhere near those fast charging speeds that you already paid for.

On 4/6/2022 1:51 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Most people don't need a fast charge power adapter when they have
> existing power adapters that they use to charge their devices overnight
> while they sleep.

The fast charger is just like more memory, more RAM, faster refresh rates &
faster cpu's in that you can always use faster and better charging speeds.

On 4/5/2022 6:38 PM, knuttle wrote:

<snip>

> There are times you're in a rush and with the slow charger you don't get
> anywhere near those fast charging speeds that you already paid for.

Actually there is no downside to high power wired charging. The phone
manages the voltage, current, and wattage, charging at a high-rate when
the battery state-of-charge is low, then tapering off as the battery
state-of-charge approaches 100%.

Remember, we're not talking about 120W charging like the Xiaomi 12 Pro,
we're talking about only 20 watt charging. The same applies for wireless
charging, we're not talking about 50W wireless charging like Xiaomi.

In article <t2iqsr$3h1$1@dont-email.me>, knuttle
<keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> > because most of the time, fast charging is not needed, for any phone,
> > not just iphones. charge it overnight and it lasts at least a day,
> > often longer.
>
> Just like having credit cards in your pocket, a fast charger is convenient
> when you need it & you don't have all day or all night to charge the phone.

there is no need to carry a charger all the time. you might want to get
a phone with much better battery life than what you have now.

On 2022-04-06, knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/6/2022 1:55 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>>>> Most people upgrading their iPhone to one that supports fast
>>>>> charging don't already own a fast charger.
>>>>
>>>> most people don't need a fast charger. they charge overnight, where
>>>> how long it takes does not matter.
>>>
>>> If you paid dearly for a fancy iPhone that can fast charge why
>>> wouldn't you want your fancy iPhone to charge at the fast speeds you
>>> already paid for?
>>
>> Because faster charging generates more heat, which lessens the
>> overall lifespan of a battery. And if my routine is already to charge
>> my device while I sleep, there's literally no benefit in needlessly
>> decreasing the overall lifespan of my battery simply "because I can".
>> Also, I'd have to spend money on a fast charge power adapter for no
>> real gain. No thanks.
>
> There are times you're in a rush

No there aren't. You're desperately trying to speak for me and many
others due to your bias, but it's clear you know nothing about my use
cases.

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On 2022-04-06, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 4/5/2022 6:38 PM, knuttle wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> There are times you're in a rush and with the slow charger you don't
>> get anywhere near those fast charging speeds that you already paid
>> for.
>
> Actually there is no downside to high power wired charging

Wrong. Extra heat is definitely a downside, and will decrease overall
lifespan of a batter in the long run.

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On 2022-04-05, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Meh. They all charge my iPhone, which is what actually matters.
>
> The only reason Apple...

Blah blah blah. Arlen can't address the point, so he tries to derail the
thread instead. Lame troll.

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In misc.phone.mobile.iphone Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2022-04-05, John McGaw <Nobody@Nowh.ere> wrote:
> >>
> >> How long does it take _you_ to charge your phone from dead to full?
> >
> > No idea. I've never had my Pixel 6 Pro get below maybe 40% after a
> > full day of use and I can't see any reason to drain it on purpose.

> Same with my iPhones for the past several years. I charge them at night
> while I sleep, they are fully charged when I wake up, and they last all
> day every day without needing a recharge. The fast charging craze is
> mostly overblown hype to those of us who rarely if ever need such a
> thing.

I have to charge my old, used iPhones (6 + and 4S) and new 12 mini. I
use them a lot! Also, it doens't help when cellular coverage is really
bad here even if I disable cellular data. :(
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On 4/5/2022 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-04-05 5:33 p.m., nospam wrote:
>> In article <t2ime0$5t9$1@dont-email.me>, sms
>> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>      One reason was to prove that the amount of extra electricity used
>>> for wireless charging is so minuscule that it has no effect on climate
>>> change.
>>
>> multiplied by a couple of billion phones, it absolutely does.
>
> In the larger context of how much electricity is used overall...
>
> ...I very much doubt it.

nospam is wrong of course™.

You're correct, in the context of world electricity use the extra KWH
used for wireless charging is lost in the noise.

On the two phones that I ran comparison tests on, the difference per day
ranged from 3.51WH to 4.23WH, which worked out to a range of 1.28 to
1.55 KWH per year per device. For the estimated 6.38 billion devices
this translates to 8.17 to 9.89 billion KWH per year. This sounds like a
lot, because billion is a big number, but worldwide electricity
consumption is about 24 trillion KWH. Thus works out to 0.0340% extra
electricity. But of course that's not looking at the whole picture of
the advantages of wireless charging.

See <https://i.imgur.com/kMmot3f.jpg>

On 4/6/2022 3:53 AM, nospam wrote:

>> Just like having credit cards in your pocket, a fast charger is convenient
>> when you need it & you don't have all day or all night to charge the phone.
>
> there is no need to carry a charger all the time. you might want to get
> a phone with much better battery life than what you have now.

You misunderstood.
I was saying the great thing about a fast charger is that it's convenient.

Much like having pockets in your pants are convenient, a fast charger is
convenient when you need it. You can live without it. But it's convenient.

Convenience is cup holders. Convenience is credit cards. Convenience is a
shoe rack. Convenience is a night light. Convenience is a flash light.

Nobody must have convenience.
It's convenient to have the convenience of a fast charger when you need it.

On 4/5/2022 11:21 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:

>> There are times you're in a rush
>
> No there aren't. You're desperately trying to speak for me and many
> others due to your bias, but it's clear you know nothing about my use
> cases.

A quick charger is convenient when you need it because the phone is charged
in no time flat, but if you don't mind waiting all day or all night for the
phone to slowly charge, then you don't need a quick charger.

What's the disadvantage of the convenience of a quick charger that makes you
dislike quick chargers so much?