On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/28/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:35:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John
>>>>> B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>> John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I
>>>>>>>>> was the one who
>>>>>>>>> changed the subject?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic
>>>>>>>> of Rape, per se.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where
>>>>>>> someone other than you
>>>>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must
>>>>>>> have missed that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se"
>>>>>> - " a Latin
>>>>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a
>>>>>> deliberate attempt to
>>>>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less
>>>>>> violent crime then
>>>>>> the U.S.?
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the
>>>>> topic of rape at the
>>>>> same time you used other words?
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>
>>>> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in
>>>> some manner
>>>> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego
>>>> requires
>>>> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
>>>>
>>>> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept.
>>>> If you can't
>>>> accept reality then just carry on with your own
>>>> dementia. After all
>>>> that's what Tom does.
>>>
>>> Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your
>>> arguments.
>>>
>>> Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S.
>>> is worse than
>>> Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've never
>>> posited a
>>> reason for the differences.
>>>
>>> Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that
>>> Americans are
>>> inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why would
>>> that be?
>>
>> Hang in there Frank and maybe you will win.
>>
>> But yes, I did point out that Canada is much more law
>> abiding then the
>> U.S. in reply to your arguments that Canada has far fewer
>> gun crimes
>> then the U.S. Of course they do, that are more law abiding.
>>
>> And now, just as Tommy does you are changing the topic to
>> argue "why
>> is Canada more law abiding the U.S."
>>
>> But lets be honest Frank, you have frequently cited Canada
>> as evidence
>> that strict, or what you view as strict, gun laws will
>> reduce gun
>> crimes in the U.S. and when I provide evidence that the
>> Canadians are
>> far more law abiding then the U.S. you then go slip
>> sliding away and
>> try to change the subject to WHY the Canadians are more
>> law abiding.
>>
>> So as I said in a previous post, if you want to slap
>> yourself on the
>> back and complement yourself that you have, yet again,
>> overcome the
>> opposition and won the argument, go right ahead. It makes no
>> difference to me as while I post facts you twist and turn
>> and post
>> suppositions.
>
> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than Americans,
> you'll have a point.
>
> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of rape and
> other violent crimes.)
>
> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot to do
> with their national policies, as implemented by their laws,
> etc.
>
> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
> difference in how people behave.
>
> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>
> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't
> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking about
> _now_.
>

When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
announced a firearm buyback program for residents of public
housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public housing
dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm themselves for
protection because their hallways and neighborhoods had
become more dangerous.

Mr Cuomo dropped the program.

(as an aside, buyback programs recover the most useless
rusted broken mess of crap and few useful weapons)

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 8:47:48 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/28/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:35:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> >>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John
> >>>>> B. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8,
> >>>>>>> John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I
> >>>>>>>>> was the one who
> >>>>>>>>> changed the subject?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Wow.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic
> >>>>>>>> of Rape, per se.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where
> >>>>>>> someone other than you
> >>>>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must
> >>>>>>> have missed that.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se"
> >>>>>> - " a Latin
> >>>>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.â€
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a
> >>>>>> deliberate attempt to
> >>>>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less
> >>>>>> violent crime then
> >>>>>> the U.S.?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the
> >>>>> topic of rape at the
> >>>>> same time you used other words?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wow.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>
> >>>> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in
> >>>> some manner
> >>>> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego
> >>>> requires
> >>>> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
> >>>>
> >>>> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept.
> >>>> If you can't
> >>>> accept reality then just carry on with your own
> >>>> dementia. After all
> >>>> that's what Tom does.
> >>>
> >>> Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your
> >>> arguments.
> >>>
> >>> Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S.
> >>> is worse than
> >>> Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've never
> >>> posited a
> >>> reason for the differences.
> >>>
> >>> Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that
> >>> Americans are
> >>> inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why would
> >>> that be?
> >>
> >> Hang in there Frank and maybe you will win.
> >>
> >> But yes, I did point out that Canada is much more law
> >> abiding then the
> >> U.S. in reply to your arguments that Canada has far fewer
> >> gun crimes
> >> then the U.S. Of course they do, that are more law abiding.
> >>
> >> And now, just as Tommy does you are changing the topic to
> >> argue "why
> >> is Canada more law abiding the U.S."
> >>
> >> But lets be honest Frank, you have frequently cited Canada
> >> as evidence
> >> that strict, or what you view as strict, gun laws will
> >> reduce gun
> >> crimes in the U.S. and when I provide evidence that the
> >> Canadians are
> >> far more law abiding then the U.S. you then go slip
> >> sliding away and
> >> try to change the subject to WHY the Canadians are more
> >> law abiding.
> >>
> >> So as I said in a previous post, if you want to slap
> >> yourself on the
> >> back and complement yourself that you have, yet again,
> >> overcome the
> >> opposition and won the argument, go right ahead. It makes no
> >> difference to me as while I post facts you twist and turn
> >> and post
> >> suppositions.
> >
> > When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
> > inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than Americans,
> > you'll have a point.
> >
> > BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
> > French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
> > fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
> > subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of rape and
> > other violent crimes.)
> >
> > Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
> > assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot to do
> > with their national policies, as implemented by their laws,
> > etc.
> >
> > Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
> > difference in how people behave.
> >
> > Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
> >
> > Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't
> > change the subject, John. This is what we are talking about
> > _now_.
> >
> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of public
> housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public housing
> dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm themselves for
> protection because their hallways and neighborhoods had
> become more dangerous.
>
> Mr Cuomo dropped the program.
>
> (as an aside, buyback programs recover the most useless
> rusted broken mess of crap and few useful weapons)

Someone should probably note to that moronic Kragowski that 1; The IRA was numbered only in the dozens and killed over 3,500 people. Often total innocents and even children and usually with bombs and not guns. 2. Poland is on the border of Russia and if the Ukraine movement is successful to any extent, Poland is the next obvious target. Frank abhors the idea that the Polish people should own personal weapons and believes that they should leave the defense of their country to the military alone. 3. In every area where they've tried this weapons buy-back they've even received flintlocks as well as completely non-working guns with the serial numbers ground off. This is the world of Frank - not even a trace of reality.

On 3/1/2022 12:29 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 8:47:48 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 2/28/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:35:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John
>>>>>>> B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>> John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I
>>>>>>>>>>> was the one who
>>>>>>>>>>> changed the subject?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic
>>>>>>>>>> of Rape, per se.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where
>>>>>>>>> someone other than you
>>>>>>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must
>>>>>>>>> have missed that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se"
>>>>>>>> - " a Latin
>>>>>>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.â€
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a
>>>>>>>> deliberate attempt to
>>>>>>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less
>>>>>>>> violent crime then
>>>>>>>> the U.S.?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the
>>>>>>> topic of rape at the
>>>>>>> same time you used other words?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in
>>>>>> some manner
>>>>>> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego
>>>>>> requires
>>>>>> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept.
>>>>>> If you can't
>>>>>> accept reality then just carry on with your own
>>>>>> dementia. After all
>>>>>> that's what Tom does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your
>>>>> arguments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S.
>>>>> is worse than
>>>>> Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've never
>>>>> posited a
>>>>> reason for the differences.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that
>>>>> Americans are
>>>>> inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why would
>>>>> that be?
>>>>
>>>> Hang in there Frank and maybe you will win.
>>>>
>>>> But yes, I did point out that Canada is much more law
>>>> abiding then the
>>>> U.S. in reply to your arguments that Canada has far fewer
>>>> gun crimes
>>>> then the U.S. Of course they do, that are more law abiding.
>>>>
>>>> And now, just as Tommy does you are changing the topic to
>>>> argue "why
>>>> is Canada more law abiding the U.S."
>>>>
>>>> But lets be honest Frank, you have frequently cited Canada
>>>> as evidence
>>>> that strict, or what you view as strict, gun laws will
>>>> reduce gun
>>>> crimes in the U.S. and when I provide evidence that the
>>>> Canadians are
>>>> far more law abiding then the U.S. you then go slip
>>>> sliding away and
>>>> try to change the subject to WHY the Canadians are more
>>>> law abiding.
>>>>
>>>> So as I said in a previous post, if you want to slap
>>>> yourself on the
>>>> back and complement yourself that you have, yet again,
>>>> overcome the
>>>> opposition and won the argument, go right ahead. It makes no
>>>> difference to me as while I post facts you twist and turn
>>>> and post
>>>> suppositions.
>>>
>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than Americans,
>>> you'll have a point.
>>>
>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of rape and
>>> other violent crimes.)
>>>
>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot to do
>>> with their national policies, as implemented by their laws,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>>> difference in how people behave.
>>>
>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>
>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't
>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking about
>>> _now_.
>>>
>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
>> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of public
>> housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public housing
>> dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm themselves for
>> protection because their hallways and neighborhoods had
>> become more dangerous.
>>
>> Mr Cuomo dropped the program.
>>
>> (as an aside, buyback programs recover the most useless
>> rusted broken mess of crap and few useful weapons)
>
> Someone should probably note to that moronic Kragowski that 1; The IRA was numbered only in the dozens and killed over 3,500 people. Often total innocents and even children and usually with bombs and not guns. 2. Poland is on the border of Russia and if the Ukraine movement is successful to any extent, Poland is the next obvious target. Frank abhors the idea that the Polish people should own personal weapons and believes that they should leave the defense of their country to the military alone. 3. In every area where they've tried this weapons buy-back they've even received flintlocks as well as completely non-working guns with the serial numbers ground off. This is the world of Frank - not even a trace of reality.
>

Eventually Poland.

The 'next obvious target' is Lithuania. They have been under
attack by Belarus for months, with waves of jihadis flown in
on the State airline, bused to the border. This also shifts
attention away from Russia, Belarus being the cat's paw here.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >
>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than Americans,
>> you'll have a point.
>>
>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of rape and
>> other violent crimes.)
>>
>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot to do
>> with their national policies, as implemented by their laws,
>> etc.
>>
>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>> difference in how people behave.
>>
>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>
>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't
>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking about
>> _now_.
>>
>
> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he announced a firearm
> buyback program for residents of public housing. Reporter asked if
> firearms made public housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to
> arm themselves for  protection because their hallways and neighborhoods
> had become more dangerous.

Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans are just
fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying that laws and
policies make no difference.

But I wonder what those public housing residents are afraid of? Is it
punks with slingshots? Or punks with some different weaponry?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/1/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> >
>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than Americans,
>>> you'll have a point.
>>>
>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of rape and
>>> other violent crimes.)
>>>
>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot to do
>>> with their national policies, as implemented by their laws,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>>> difference in how people behave.
>>>
>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>
>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't
>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking about
>>> _now_.
>>>
>>
>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
>> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of
>> public housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public
>> housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm
>> themselves for  protection because their hallways and
>> neighborhoods had become more dangerous.
>
> Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans are
> just fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying
> that laws and policies make no difference.
>
> But I wonder what those public housing residents are afraid
> of? Is it punks with slingshots? Or punks with some
> different weaponry?
>
>

What do people in violent neighborhoods fear? Knives,
beatings, assaults of various severity and yes firearms.
Get rid of firearms and you have the same vicious people
then add in an incitement to tyranny of an unarmed population.

For an elderly woman with some guy coming through her
bedroom window, a knife or club is of limited utility. When
seconds matter, 911 is just twenty minutes away.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/1/2022 3:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than Americans,
>>>> you'll have a point.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
>>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
>>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of rape and
>>>> other violent crimes.)
>>>>
>>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
>>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot to do
>>>> with their national policies, as implemented by their laws,
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>>>> difference in how people behave.
>>>>
>>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't
>>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking about
>>>> _now_.
>>>>
>>>
>>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
>>> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of
>>> public housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public
>>> housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm
>>> themselves for  protection because their hallways and
>>> neighborhoods had become more dangerous.
>>
>> Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans are
>> just fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying
>> that laws and policies make no difference.
>>
>> But I wonder what those public housing residents are afraid
>> of? Is it punks with slingshots? Or punks with some
>> different weaponry?
>>
>>
>
> What do people in violent neighborhoods fear? Knives, beatings, assaults
> of various severity and yes firearms.
> Get rid of firearms and you have the same vicious people then add in an
> incitement to tyranny of an unarmed population.
>
> For an elderly woman with some guy coming through her bedroom window, a
> knife or club is of limited utility. When seconds matter, 911 is just
> twenty minutes away.

As usual, I wonder about other countries. Do they not have the problems
you describe to the degree Americans do? If they don't, why not? Is it
genetics? Or is it laws and policies?

If they do have the problems, how do they manage them without every
elderly woman owning an AR rifle or rapid fire handgun?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/1/2022 2:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 3:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/1/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>>>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than
>>>>> Americans,
>>>>> you'll have a point.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>>>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
>>>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
>>>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of
>>>>> rape and
>>>>> other violent crimes.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
>>>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot
>>>>> to do
>>>>> with their national policies, as implemented by their
>>>>> laws,
>>>>> etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>>>>> difference in how people behave.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>>>
>>>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And
>>>>> don't
>>>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking
>>>>> about
>>>>> _now_.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
>>>> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of
>>>> public housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public
>>>> housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm
>>>> themselves for  protection because their hallways and
>>>> neighborhoods had become more dangerous.
>>>
>>> Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans are
>>> just fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying
>>> that laws and policies make no difference.
>>>
>>> But I wonder what those public housing residents are afraid
>>> of? Is it punks with slingshots? Or punks with some
>>> different weaponry?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What do people in violent neighborhoods fear? Knives,
>> beatings, assaults of various severity and yes firearms.
>> Get rid of firearms and you have the same vicious people
>> then add in an incitement to tyranny of an unarmed
>> population.
>>
>> For an elderly woman with some guy coming through her
>> bedroom window, a knife or club is of limited utility.
>> When seconds matter, 911 is just twenty minutes away.
>
> As usual, I wonder about other countries. Do they not have
> the problems you describe to the degree Americans do? If
> they don't, why not? Is it genetics? Or is it laws and
> policies?
>
> If they do have the problems, how do they manage them
> without every elderly woman owning an AR rifle or rapid fire
> handgun?
>
>

What do you mean by 'rapid fire' ? Typical home defense
pistols are revolvers and striker type 9mm (or .380 /.40).
Those all fire at the same speed[1].

I'll bet you can't find even one police or news report in
the past year in USA where a full-auto pistol was used for
home self-defense.

OTOH which of these scenarios would you prefer for your
relative or yourself?

A) This common crime?
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-wordle-mother-saved-lincolnwood-20220211-ecz5istdfrhvzdin4kibdwyrmi-story.html

B) or more like this?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/elderly-man-shoots-kills-half-naked-home-intruder-who-assaulted-his-wife

{1} in the real world.
In TeeVee world, firearms are magic lead-spraying devices
which always hit the intended target such as the bad guy's
wrist when wielded by good guy. Bad guy firearms also spray
huge quantities just over good guy's head with magic sound
effects.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 12:44:36 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
> >>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than Americans,
> >>> you'll have a point.
> >>>
> >>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
> >>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
> >>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
> >>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of rape and
> >>> other violent crimes.)
> >>>
> >>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
> >>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot to do
> >>> with their national policies, as implemented by their laws,
> >>> etc.
> >>>
> >>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
> >>> difference in how people behave.
> >>>
> >>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
> >>>
> >>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't
> >>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking about
> >>> _now_.
> >>>
> >>
> >> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
> >> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of
> >> public housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public
> >> housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm
> >> themselves for  protection because their hallways and
> >> neighborhoods had become more dangerous.
> >
> > Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans are
> > just fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying
> > that laws and policies make no difference.
> >
> > But I wonder what those public housing residents are afraid
> > of? Is it punks with slingshots? Or punks with some
> > different weaponry?
> >
> >
> What do people in violent neighborhoods fear? Knives,
> beatings, assaults of various severity and yes firearms.
> Get rid of firearms and you have the same vicious people
> then add in an incitement to tyranny of an unarmed population.
>
> For an elderly woman with some guy coming through her
> bedroom window, a knife or club is of limited utility. When
> seconds matter, 911 is just twenty minutes away.

Here you would be lucky to have a call for police answered.

On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:34:27 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 2:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/1/2022 3:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 3/1/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
> >>>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than
> >>>>> Americans,
> >>>>> you'll have a point.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
> >>>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
> >>>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
> >>>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of
> >>>>> rape and
> >>>>> other violent crimes.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
> >>>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot
> >>>>> to do
> >>>>> with their national policies, as implemented by their
> >>>>> laws,
> >>>>> etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
> >>>>> difference in how people behave.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And
> >>>>> don't
> >>>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking
> >>>>> about
> >>>>> _now_.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
> >>>> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of
> >>>> public housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public
> >>>> housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm
> >>>> themselves for  protection because their hallways and
> >>>> neighborhoods had become more dangerous.
> >>>
> >>> Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans are
> >>> just fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying
> >>> that laws and policies make no difference.
> >>>
> >>> But I wonder what those public housing residents are afraid
> >>> of? Is it punks with slingshots? Or punks with some
> >>> different weaponry?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> What do people in violent neighborhoods fear? Knives,
> >> beatings, assaults of various severity and yes firearms.
> >> Get rid of firearms and you have the same vicious people
> >> then add in an incitement to tyranny of an unarmed
> >> population.
> >>
> >> For an elderly woman with some guy coming through her
> >> bedroom window, a knife or club is of limited utility.
> >> When seconds matter, 911 is just twenty minutes away.
> >
> > As usual, I wonder about other countries. Do they not have
> > the problems you describe to the degree Americans do? If
> > they don't, why not? Is it genetics? Or is it laws and
> > policies?
> >
> > If they do have the problems, how do they manage them
> > without every elderly woman owning an AR rifle or rapid fire
> > handgun?
> >
> >
> What do you mean by 'rapid fire' ? Typical home defense
> pistols are revolvers and striker type 9mm (or .380 /.40).
> Those all fire at the same speed[1].
>
> I'll bet you can't find even one police or news report in
> the past year in USA where a full-auto pistol was used for
> home self-defense.
>
> OTOH which of these scenarios would you prefer for your
> relative or yourself?
>
> A) This common crime?
> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-wordle-mother-saved-lincolnwood-20220211-ecz5istdfrhvzdin4kibdwyrmi-story.html
>
> B) or more like this?
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/elderly-man-shoots-kills-half-naked-home-intruder-who-assaulted-his-wife
>
>
> {1} in the real world.
> In TeeVee world, firearms are magic lead-spraying devices
> which always hit the intended target such as the bad guy's
> wrist when wielded by good guy. Bad guy firearms also spray
> huge quantities just over good guy's head with magic sound
> effects.

Despite Frank's claims, the most violent areas of this country are NOT where gun controls are the lightest but the reverse. You are far less likely to see reports of homicides in Arizona or Texas where gun laws are very weak or non-existent than in places like Illinois or Maryland or Delaware.

On a world wide rate, the US is in the lower 1%. Franks lies because that is what he does.

On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 12:07:31 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 21:28:01 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 9:30:12 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 18:32:56 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 12:47:35 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:13:45 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:39:36 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another..
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> different
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> picture:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Crime
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Rape
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Assault
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
> >> >> >> >>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
> >> >> >> >>>>>> extremely rare:
> >> >> >> >>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
> >> >> >> >>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
> >> >> >> >>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>> OK.
> >> >> >> >>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
> >> >> >> >>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
> >> >> >> >>>> when you find it, THX.
> >> >> >> >>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021.. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns.. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
> >> >> >> >'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
> >> >> >> >conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
> >> >> >> >(including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
> >> >> >> >their resourcefulness.
> >> >> >> Is that from the current escapade?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I tried looking up "Deaths in Ukraine War" and found that there has
> >> >> >> been considerable unrest in the Ukraine since 2014, at least, with
> >> >> >> quite a bit of pro Russian sentiment and anti Russian sentiment
> >> >> >> occurring.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Apparently the current situation is really not as isolated an event
> >> >> >> as the news, or at least the news here, might have it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Which, of course, doesn't justify anything but it is interesting to
> >> >> >> see that the current "war" has an 8 year history of discord.
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> John B.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >As Andy replied, this week. Since last Wednesday or Thursday I believe. Crimea peninsula was taken over by Russia in 2014. I forget how much battle occurred then. And the two areas of Ukraine in the SE corner in which Putin said now belong to Russia last week, there has been fighting between pro Russia and pro Ukraine forces there for several years now. But I don't believe they have been shooting and bombing non stop every day for several years now. I think its more of a shooting breaks out every now and then situation. Not non stop shooting. I think the current invasion is non stop shooting and bombing going on. All over Ukraine. Especially Kyiv Ukraine where 3 million people live.
> >> >> The article I read talked about 2200 fatalities since 2014. And there
> >> >> are, apparently, a substantial number of people living in the Ukraine
> >> >> who would prefer to "be Russians".
> >> >
> >> >I'm pretty sure there is a substantial number of Hispanic, Mexican, people living in the California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, who would prefer to "be Mexicans".
> >> Well, if the "Hispanic, Mexican people" want to be Mexican it is only
> >> a short trip to Mexico where I'd guess they would be made welcome, so
> >> why don't they go?
> >
> >One could easily, and correctly say the exact same thing about the Donetsk and Luhansk provinces in Ukraine. They border Russia itself. Yet Putin declared the Russians living in these areas were being persecuted and sent in peace keeping troops to keep the peace and allow the regions to separate from Ukraine. There has been fighting in these regions for a number of years now. Separatists and nationalists, etc. But why didn't all the people who wanted to be Russians just walk across the border into Russia? Why did Putin send in troops? Couldn't he have just put up a Welcome sign on the border? And gotten some people with megaphones on the border yelling "Come on in!".
> I think that you are talking about two different things. Relatively
> recent immigrants in the case of the Spanish speakers in the U.S. and
> people who have lived for generations in the case of the Ukraine. The
> Ukraine was "Russian" since what? The 1920's?
> Certainly a large number were born and grew up as Russians.

On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:04:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/28/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:35:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I was the one who
>>>>>>>>> changed the subject?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic of Rape, per se.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where someone other than you
>>>>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must have missed that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se" - " a Latin
>>>>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a deliberate attempt to
>>>>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less violent crime then
>>>>>> the U.S.?
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the topic of rape at the
>>>>> same time you used other words?
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>
>>>> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in some manner
>>>> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego requires
>>>> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
>>>>
>>>> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept. If you can't
>>>> accept reality then just carry on with your own dementia. After all
>>>> that's what Tom does.
>>>
>>> Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your arguments.
>>>
>>> Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S. is worse than
>>> Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've never posited a
>>> reason for the differences.
>>>
>>> Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that Americans are
>>> inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why would that be?
>>
>> Hang in there Frank and maybe you will win.
>>
>> But yes, I did point out that Canada is much more law abiding then the
>> U.S. in reply to your arguments that Canada has far fewer gun crimes
>> then the U.S. Of course they do, that are more law abiding.
>>
>> And now, just as Tommy does you are changing the topic to argue "why
>> is Canada more law abiding the U.S."
>>
>> But lets be honest Frank, you have frequently cited Canada as evidence
>> that strict, or what you view as strict, gun laws will reduce gun
>> crimes in the U.S. and when I provide evidence that the Canadians are
>> far more law abiding then the U.S. you then go slip sliding away and
>> try to change the subject to WHY the Canadians are more law abiding.
>>
>> So as I said in a previous post, if you want to slap yourself on the
>> back and complement yourself that you have, yet again, overcome the
>> opposition and won the argument, go right ahead. It makes no
>> difference to me as while I post facts you twist and turn and post
>> suppositions.
>
>When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ... inherently?
>genetically? ... more civilized than Americans, you'll have a point.
>
>BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish, French, Swedes
>and so many other countries that have far fewer gun deaths than the U.S.
>(Since you brought up the subject, I'll rely on you to look up their
>rates of rape and other violent crimes.)
>
>Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to assume that
>differences in gun death rates have a lot to do with their national
>policies, as implemented by their laws, etc.
>
>Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big difference in how
>people behave.
>
>Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>
>Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't change the
>subject, John. This is what we are talking about _now_.

All right, if you really are set on changing the subject, we will
continue.

You say "Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
difference in how people behave."

Which is to say that your supposition is that ....

Which really means what? That you have a vivid imagination? Or that
you have conducted a multi year survey of millions of inhabitants of
both the U.S. and Canada to determine to the nth degree why they act
as they do?

I suggest that your suppositions are just that, examples of a vivid
imaginations and have nothing to do with reality.

I prefer to deal in facts... that based on reported crime rates the
Canadians are a far more law abiding nation then the U.S.

No suppositions, no imagination, no "well I think". Just facts.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 12:33:04 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 12:29 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 8:47:48 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 2/28/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:35:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John
> >>>>>>> B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8,
> >>>>>>>>> John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I
> >>>>>>>>>>> was the one who
> >>>>>>>>>>> changed the subject?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Wow.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic
> >>>>>>>>>> of Rape, per se.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where
> >>>>>>>>> someone other than you
> >>>>>>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must
> >>>>>>>>> have missed that.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se"
> >>>>>>>> - " a Latin
> >>>>>>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.â€
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a
> >>>>>>>> deliberate attempt to
> >>>>>>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less
> >>>>>>>> violent crime then
> >>>>>>>> the U.S.?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the
> >>>>>>> topic of rape at the
> >>>>>>> same time you used other words?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Wow.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in
> >>>>>> some manner
> >>>>>> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego
> >>>>>> requires
> >>>>>> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept.
> >>>>>> If you can't
> >>>>>> accept reality then just carry on with your own
> >>>>>> dementia. After all
> >>>>>> that's what Tom does.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your
> >>>>> arguments.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S.
> >>>>> is worse than
> >>>>> Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've never
> >>>>> posited a
> >>>>> reason for the differences.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that
> >>>>> Americans are
> >>>>> inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why would
> >>>>> that be?
> >>>>
> >>>> Hang in there Frank and maybe you will win.
> >>>>
> >>>> But yes, I did point out that Canada is much more law
> >>>> abiding then the
> >>>> U.S. in reply to your arguments that Canada has far fewer
> >>>> gun crimes
> >>>> then the U.S. Of course they do, that are more law abiding.
> >>>>
> >>>> And now, just as Tommy does you are changing the topic to
> >>>> argue "why
> >>>> is Canada more law abiding the U.S."
> >>>>
> >>>> But lets be honest Frank, you have frequently cited Canada
> >>>> as evidence
> >>>> that strict, or what you view as strict, gun laws will
> >>>> reduce gun
> >>>> crimes in the U.S. and when I provide evidence that the
> >>>> Canadians are
> >>>> far more law abiding then the U.S. you then go slip
> >>>> sliding away and
> >>>> try to change the subject to WHY the Canadians are more
> >>>> law abiding.
> >>>>
> >>>> So as I said in a previous post, if you want to slap
> >>>> yourself on the
> >>>> back and complement yourself that you have, yet again,
> >>>> overcome the
> >>>> opposition and won the argument, go right ahead. It makes no
> >>>> difference to me as while I post facts you twist and turn
> >>>> and post
> >>>> suppositions.
> >>>
> >>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
> >>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than Americans,
> >>> you'll have a point.
> >>>
> >>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
> >>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
> >>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
> >>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of rape and
> >>> other violent crimes.)
> >>>
> >>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
> >>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot to do
> >>> with their national policies, as implemented by their laws,
> >>> etc.
> >>>
> >>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
> >>> difference in how people behave.
> >>>
> >>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
> >>>
> >>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't
> >>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking about
> >>> _now_.
> >>>
> >> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
> >> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of public
> >> housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public housing
> >> dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm themselves for
> >> protection because their hallways and neighborhoods had
> >> become more dangerous.
> >>
> >> Mr Cuomo dropped the program.
> >>
> >> (as an aside, buyback programs recover the most useless
> >> rusted broken mess of crap and few useful weapons)
> >
> > Someone should probably note to that moronic Kragowski that 1; The IRA was numbered only in the dozens and killed over 3,500 people. Often total innocents and even children and usually with bombs and not guns. 2. Poland is on the border of Russia and if the Ukraine movement is successful to any extent, Poland is the next obvious target. Frank abhors the idea that the Polish people should own personal weapons and believes that they should leave the defense of their country to the military alone. 3. In every area where they've tried this weapons buy-back they've even received flintlocks as well as completely non-working guns with the serial numbers ground off. This is the world of Frank - not even a trace of reality.
> >
> Eventually Poland.
>
> The 'next obvious target' is Lithuania. They have been under
> attack by Belarus for months, with waves of jihadis flown in
> on the State airline, bused to the border. This also shifts
> attention away from Russia, Belarus being the cat's paw here.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 10:47:45 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/28/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:35:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John
>>>>>> B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>> John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I
>>>>>>>>>> was the one who
>>>>>>>>>> changed the subject?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic
>>>>>>>>> of Rape, per se.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where
>>>>>>>> someone other than you
>>>>>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must
>>>>>>>> have missed that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se"
>>>>>>> - " a Latin
>>>>>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.â€?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a
>>>>>>> deliberate attempt to
>>>>>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less
>>>>>>> violent crime then
>>>>>>> the U.S.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the
>>>>>> topic of rape at the
>>>>>> same time you used other words?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>
>>>>> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in
>>>>> some manner
>>>>> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego
>>>>> requires
>>>>> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
>>>>>
>>>>> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept.
>>>>> If you can't
>>>>> accept reality then just carry on with your own
>>>>> dementia. After all
>>>>> that's what Tom does.
>>>>
>>>> Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your
>>>> arguments.
>>>>
>>>> Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S.
>>>> is worse than
>>>> Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've never
>>>> posited a
>>>> reason for the differences.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that
>>>> Americans are
>>>> inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why would
>>>> that be?
>>>
>>> Hang in there Frank and maybe you will win.
>>>
>>> But yes, I did point out that Canada is much more law
>>> abiding then the
>>> U.S. in reply to your arguments that Canada has far fewer
>>> gun crimes
>>> then the U.S. Of course they do, that are more law abiding.
>>>
>>> And now, just as Tommy does you are changing the topic to
>>> argue "why
>>> is Canada more law abiding the U.S."
>>>
>>> But lets be honest Frank, you have frequently cited Canada
>>> as evidence
>>> that strict, or what you view as strict, gun laws will
>>> reduce gun
>>> crimes in the U.S. and when I provide evidence that the
>>> Canadians are
>>> far more law abiding then the U.S. you then go slip
>>> sliding away and
>>> try to change the subject to WHY the Canadians are more
>>> law abiding.
>>>
>>> So as I said in a previous post, if you want to slap
>>> yourself on the
>>> back and complement yourself that you have, yet again,
>>> overcome the
>>> opposition and won the argument, go right ahead. It makes no
>>> difference to me as while I post facts you twist and turn
>>> and post
>>> suppositions.
>>
>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than Americans,
>> you'll have a point.
>>
>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of rape and
>> other violent crimes.)
>>
>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot to do
>> with their national policies, as implemented by their laws,
>> etc.
>>
>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>> difference in how people behave.
>>
>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>
>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't
>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking about
>> _now_.
>>
>
>When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
>announced a firearm buyback program for residents of public
>housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public housing
>dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm themselves for
> protection because their hallways and neighborhoods had
>become more dangerous.
>
>Mr Cuomo dropped the program.
>
>(as an aside, buyback programs recover the most useless
>rusted broken mess of crap and few useful weapons)

Granted it is hearsay but an Australian friend assures me that when
the gun buy back program in Australia was in full swing that the
larger diameter plastic piping was in short supply as all over
Australia people were buying it to entomb their guns for burial.
(buried to keep them of the hands of the gun grabbers)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:52:49 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:34:27 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 3/1/2022 2:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 3/1/2022 3:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> On 3/1/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>> On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
> > >>>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than
> > >>>>> Americans,
> > >>>>> you'll have a point.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
> > >>>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
> > >>>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
> > >>>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of
> > >>>>> rape and
> > >>>>> other violent crimes.)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
> > >>>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot
> > >>>>> to do
> > >>>>> with their national policies, as implemented by their
> > >>>>> laws,
> > >>>>> etc.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
> > >>>>> difference in how people behave.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And
> > >>>>> don't
> > >>>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking
> > >>>>> about
> > >>>>> _now_.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
> > >>>> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of
> > >>>> public housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public
> > >>>> housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm
> > >>>> themselves for  protection because their hallways and
> > >>>> neighborhoods had become more dangerous.
> > >>>
> > >>> Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans are
> > >>> just fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying
> > >>> that laws and policies make no difference.
> > >>>
> > >>> But I wonder what those public housing residents are afraid
> > >>> of? Is it punks with slingshots? Or punks with some
> > >>> different weaponry?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> What do people in violent neighborhoods fear? Knives,
> > >> beatings, assaults of various severity and yes firearms.
> > >> Get rid of firearms and you have the same vicious people
> > >> then add in an incitement to tyranny of an unarmed
> > >> population.
> > >>
> > >> For an elderly woman with some guy coming through her
> > >> bedroom window, a knife or club is of limited utility.
> > >> When seconds matter, 911 is just twenty minutes away.
> > >
> > > As usual, I wonder about other countries. Do they not have
> > > the problems you describe to the degree Americans do? If
> > > they don't, why not? Is it genetics? Or is it laws and
> > > policies?
> > >
> > > If they do have the problems, how do they manage them
> > > without every elderly woman owning an AR rifle or rapid fire
> > > handgun?
> > >
> > >
> > What do you mean by 'rapid fire' ? Typical home defense
> > pistols are revolvers and striker type 9mm (or .380 /.40).
> > Those all fire at the same speed[1].
> >
> > I'll bet you can't find even one police or news report in
> > the past year in USA where a full-auto pistol was used for
> > home self-defense.
> >
> > OTOH which of these scenarios would you prefer for your
> > relative or yourself?
> >
> > A) This common crime?
> > https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-wordle-mother-saved-lincolnwood-20220211-ecz5istdfrhvzdin4kibdwyrmi-story.html
> >
> > B) or more like this?
> > https://www.foxnews.com/us/elderly-man-shoots-kills-half-naked-home-intruder-who-assaulted-his-wife
> >
> >
> > {1} in the real world.
> > In TeeVee world, firearms are magic lead-spraying devices
> > which always hit the intended target such as the bad guy's
> > wrist when wielded by good guy. Bad guy firearms also spray
> > huge quantities just over good guy's head with magic sound
> > effects.
> Despite Frank's claims, the most violent areas of this country are NOT where gun controls are the lightest but the reverse. You are far less likely to see reports of homicides in Arizona or Texas where gun laws are very weak or non-existent than in places like Illinois or Maryland or Delaware.
>
> On a world wide rate, the US is in the lower 1%. Franks lies because that is what he does.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country
Says USA is 4.96 per 100K murder rate. Somewhere in the upper middle of all countries. Well well well above above above all of European countries. No where near lower 1%.

On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 14:40:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> >
>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than Americans,
>>> you'll have a point.
>>>
>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of rape and
>>> other violent crimes.)
>>>
>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot to do
>>> with their national policies, as implemented by their laws,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>>> difference in how people behave.
>>>
>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>
>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't
>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking about
>>> _now_.
>>>
>>
>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he announced a firearm
>> buyback program for residents of public housing. Reporter asked if
>> firearms made public housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to
>> arm themselves for  protection because their hallways and neighborhoods
>> had become more dangerous.
>
>Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans are just
>fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying that laws and
>policies make no difference.
>

Ah but John never implied that USians were "fundamentally evil". I
simply demonstrated that Canadians were more law abiding,

Which, says nothing about the evilness or goodness of either group.

Or, to put it in simpler, perhaps easier to understand, terms the fact
that Andrew, for example, maybe taller then I does not imply shortness
on my part. I might be 6 feet tall and Andrew might be 6'1".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/1/2022 6:10 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:04:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/28/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:35:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I was the one who
>>>>>>>>>> changed the subject?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic of Rape, per se.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where someone other than you
>>>>>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must have missed that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se" - " a Latin
>>>>>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a deliberate attempt to
>>>>>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less violent crime then
>>>>>>> the U.S.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the topic of rape at the
>>>>>> same time you used other words?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>
>>>>> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in some manner
>>>>> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego requires
>>>>> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
>>>>>
>>>>> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept. If you can't
>>>>> accept reality then just carry on with your own dementia. After all
>>>>> that's what Tom does.
>>>>
>>>> Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your arguments.
>>>>
>>>> Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S. is worse than
>>>> Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've never posited a
>>>> reason for the differences.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that Americans are
>>>> inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why would that be?
>>>
>>> Hang in there Frank and maybe you will win.
>>>
>>> But yes, I did point out that Canada is much more law abiding then the
>>> U.S. in reply to your arguments that Canada has far fewer gun crimes
>>> then the U.S. Of course they do, that are more law abiding.
>>>
>>> And now, just as Tommy does you are changing the topic to argue "why
>>> is Canada more law abiding the U.S."
>>>
>>> But lets be honest Frank, you have frequently cited Canada as evidence
>>> that strict, or what you view as strict, gun laws will reduce gun
>>> crimes in the U.S. and when I provide evidence that the Canadians are
>>> far more law abiding then the U.S. you then go slip sliding away and
>>> try to change the subject to WHY the Canadians are more law abiding.
>>>
>>> So as I said in a previous post, if you want to slap yourself on the
>>> back and complement yourself that you have, yet again, overcome the
>>> opposition and won the argument, go right ahead. It makes no
>>> difference to me as while I post facts you twist and turn and post
>>> suppositions.
>>
>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ... inherently?
>> genetically? ... more civilized than Americans, you'll have a point.
>>
>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish, French, Swedes
>> and so many other countries that have far fewer gun deaths than the U.S.
>> (Since you brought up the subject, I'll rely on you to look up their
>> rates of rape and other violent crimes.)
>>
>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to assume that
>> differences in gun death rates have a lot to do with their national
>> policies, as implemented by their laws, etc.
>>
>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big difference in how
>> people behave.
>>
>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>
>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't change the
>> subject, John. This is what we are talking about _now_.
>
> All right, if you really are set on changing the subject, we will
> continue.
>
> You say "Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
> difference in how people behave."
>
> Which is to say that your supposition is that ....
>
> Which really means what? That you have a vivid imagination? Or that
> you have conducted a multi year survey of millions of inhabitants of
> both the U.S. and Canada to determine to the nth degree why they act
> as they do?
>
> I suggest that your suppositions are just that, examples of a vivid
> imaginations and have nothing to do with reality.
>
> I prefer to deal in facts... that based on reported crime rates the
> Canadians are a far more law abiding nation then the U.S.
>
> No suppositions, no imagination, no "well I think". Just facts.
>

Well, I wonder if we have a natural experiment to use in
comparison? Oh, maybe we do. The national 55mph speed limit
was imposed on the States. Even States unwilling were
coerced/bribed with the Highway Trust Fund into compliance,
more or less[1].

So, how's speed limit compliance going?

https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/s88fcy/flow_of_traffic_on_the_beltline/

That conversation is ubiquitous- any expressway, any
Interstate. So would you maintain that a change of law
effected a change in countenance?

[1] Montana and Nevada at one time issued 'energy
conservation violations', $5 fine for driving over 55. There
may have been others but I paid several to those two.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/1/2022 4:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 2:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/1/2022 3:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 3/1/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>>>>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than
>>>>>> Americans,
>>>>>> you'll have a point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>>>>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
>>>>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
>>>>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of
>>>>>> rape and
>>>>>> other violent crimes.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
>>>>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot
>>>>>> to do
>>>>>> with their national policies, as implemented by their
>>>>>> laws,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>>>>>> difference in how people behave.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> _now_.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
>>>>> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of
>>>>> public housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public
>>>>> housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm
>>>>> themselves for  protection because their hallways and
>>>>> neighborhoods had become more dangerous.
>>>>
>>>> Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans are
>>>> just fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying
>>>> that laws and policies make no difference.
>>>>
>>>> But I wonder what those public housing residents are afraid
>>>> of? Is it punks with slingshots? Or punks with some
>>>> different weaponry?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> What do people in violent neighborhoods fear? Knives,
>>> beatings, assaults of various severity and yes firearms.
>>> Get rid of firearms and you have the same vicious people
>>> then add in an incitement to tyranny of an unarmed
>>> population.
>>>
>>> For an elderly woman with some guy coming through her
>>> bedroom window, a knife or club is of limited utility.
>>> When seconds matter, 911 is just twenty minutes away.
>>
>> As usual, I wonder about other countries. Do they not have
>> the problems you describe to the degree Americans do? If
>> they don't, why not? Is it genetics? Or is it laws and
>> policies?
>>
>> If they do have the problems, how do they manage them
>> without every elderly woman owning an AR rifle or rapid fire
>> handgun?
>>
>>
>
> What do you mean by 'rapid fire' ? Typical home defense pistols are
> revolvers and striker type 9mm (or .380 /.40). Those all fire at the
> same speed[1].
>
> I'll bet you can't find even one police or news report in the past year
> in USA where a full-auto pistol was used for home self-defense.

I did not say "full auto." And I'd say even nine rounds at two rounds
per second qualifies as "rapid fire." Hunters don't do that. Target
shooters do that only if they're pretending to be in combat.

> OTOH which of these scenarios would you prefer for your relative or
> yourself?
>
> A)  This common crime?
> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-wordle-mother-saved-lincolnwood-20220211-ecz5istdfrhvzdin4kibdwyrmi-story.html
>
>
> B) or more like this?
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/elderly-man-shoots-kills-half-naked-home-intruder-who-assaulted-his-wife

"Common crime"?? Talk about a "Danger! Danger!" statement!

Somehow, the universe I live in is not nearly so scary, at least to me
and mine.

But yet again: Why is it necessary for each U.S. household to be armed
for protection? Why is it not necessary in Canada, Britain, Norway,
Portugal...

> {1} in the real world.
> In TeeVee world, firearms are magic lead-spraying devices which always
> hit the intended target such as the bad guy's wrist when wielded by good
> guy. Bad guy firearms also spray huge quantities just over good guy's
> head with magic sound effects.

I'm well aware of that silly glorification of gun culture.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 14:44:34 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/1/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than Americans,
>>>> you'll have a point.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
>>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
>>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of rape and
>>>> other violent crimes.)
>>>>
>>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
>>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot to do
>>>> with their national policies, as implemented by their laws,
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>>>> difference in how people behave.
>>>>
>>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't
>>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking about
>>>> _now_.
>>>>
>>>
>>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
>>> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of
>>> public housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public
>>> housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm
>>> themselves for  protection because their hallways and
>>> neighborhoods had become more dangerous.
>>
>> Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans are
>> just fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying
>> that laws and policies make no difference.
>>
>> But I wonder what those public housing residents are afraid
>> of? Is it punks with slingshots? Or punks with some
>> different weaponry?
>>
>>
>
>What do people in violent neighborhoods fear? Knives,
>beatings, assaults of various severity and yes firearms.
>Get rid of firearms and you have the same vicious people
>then add in an incitement to tyranny of an unarmed population.
>
>For an elderly woman with some guy coming through her
>bedroom window, a knife or club is of limited utility. When
>seconds matter, 911 is just twenty minutes away.

As I mentioned, and provided evidence, homicides with hands and feet
outnumber those with rifles. In 2019, some 364 homicides were
committed with rifles and 600 with hands and feet.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/1/2022 7:17 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> Granted it is hearsay but an Australian friend assures me that when
> the gun buy back program in Australia was in full swing that the
> larger diameter plastic piping was in short supply as all over
> Australia people were buying it to entomb their guns for burial.
> (buried to keep them of the hands of the gun grabbers)

Actually, I don't have a problem with that. That way, if Australia were
invaded by, say, New Guinea, the Ozzies could dig up their guns and ammo
and save their continent. But in the meantime, there would be far fewer
gun deaths - and indeed, that's what did happen.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australia-marks-25-years-since-worst-mass-shooting-2021-04-28/

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/1/2022 7:10 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:04:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/28/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:35:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I was the one who
>>>>>>>>>> changed the subject?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic of Rape, per se.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where someone other than you
>>>>>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must have missed that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se" - " a Latin
>>>>>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a deliberate attempt to
>>>>>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less violent crime then
>>>>>>> the U.S.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the topic of rape at the
>>>>>> same time you used other words?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>
>>>>> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in some manner
>>>>> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego requires
>>>>> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
>>>>>
>>>>> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept. If you can't
>>>>> accept reality then just carry on with your own dementia. After all
>>>>> that's what Tom does.
>>>>
>>>> Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your arguments.
>>>>
>>>> Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S. is worse than
>>>> Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've never posited a
>>>> reason for the differences.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that Americans are
>>>> inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why would that be?
>>>
>>> Hang in there Frank and maybe you will win.
>>>
>>> But yes, I did point out that Canada is much more law abiding then the
>>> U.S. in reply to your arguments that Canada has far fewer gun crimes
>>> then the U.S. Of course they do, that are more law abiding.
>>>
>>> And now, just as Tommy does you are changing the topic to argue "why
>>> is Canada more law abiding the U.S."
>>>
>>> But lets be honest Frank, you have frequently cited Canada as evidence
>>> that strict, or what you view as strict, gun laws will reduce gun
>>> crimes in the U.S. and when I provide evidence that the Canadians are
>>> far more law abiding then the U.S. you then go slip sliding away and
>>> try to change the subject to WHY the Canadians are more law abiding.
>>>
>>> So as I said in a previous post, if you want to slap yourself on the
>>> back and complement yourself that you have, yet again, overcome the
>>> opposition and won the argument, go right ahead. It makes no
>>> difference to me as while I post facts you twist and turn and post
>>> suppositions.
>>
>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ... inherently?
>> genetically? ... more civilized than Americans, you'll have a point.
>>
>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish, French, Swedes
>> and so many other countries that have far fewer gun deaths than the U.S.
>> (Since you brought up the subject, I'll rely on you to look up their
>> rates of rape and other violent crimes.)
>>
>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to assume that
>> differences in gun death rates have a lot to do with their national
>> policies, as implemented by their laws, etc.
>>
>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big difference in how
>> people behave.
>>
>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>
>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't change the
>> subject, John. This is what we are talking about _now_.
>
> All right, if you really are set on changing the subject, we will
> continue.
>
> You say "Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
> difference in how people behave."
>
> Which is to say that your supposition is that ....
>
> Which really means what? That you have a vivid imagination? Or that
> you have conducted a multi year survey of millions of inhabitants of
> both the U.S. and Canada to determine to the nth degree why they act
> as they do?
>
> I suggest that your suppositions are just that, examples of a vivid
> imaginations and have nothing to do with reality.
>
> I prefer to deal in facts... that based on reported crime rates the
> Canadians are a far more law abiding nation then the U.S.
>
> No suppositions, no imagination, no "well I think". Just facts.

OK, John, let's return to some "facts" you've repeatedly reported.

On many occasions, you've discussed with apparent approval the extremely
strict laws of Singapore, everything from spitting on sidewalks to
dealing drugs. Each time you've done that, you ended with statements
like "And in Singapore, people don't do those things."

Your implication was NOT that Singaporeans are genetically prone to be
well behaved people. Your implication was that properly enforced laws DO
cause people to change their behavior.

But you work just as hard to imply that the differences between American
crime data and that of Canada, Britain, Ireland etc. are _not_ the legal
policies and other government and social policies. And when I ask for
details, YOU change the subject.

Care to tell me why what works for Singapore, Canada, France, Germany
and more would not work in the U.S.? Is it American genetics? Really?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/1/2022 6:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 4:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/1/2022 2:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/1/2022 3:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 3/1/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>>>>>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than
>>>>>>> Americans,
>>>>>>> you'll have a point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>>>>>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
>>>>>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
>>>>>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of
>>>>>>> rape and
>>>>>>> other violent crimes.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm
>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot
>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>> with their national policies, as implemented by their
>>>>>>> laws,
>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>>>>>>> difference in how people behave.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> _now_.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
>>>>>> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of
>>>>>> public housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public
>>>>>> housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm
>>>>>> themselves for  protection because their hallways
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> neighborhoods had become more dangerous.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans
>>>>> are
>>>>> just fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying
>>>>> that laws and policies make no difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I wonder what those public housing residents are
>>>>> afraid
>>>>> of? Is it punks with slingshots? Or punks with some
>>>>> different weaponry?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do people in violent neighborhoods fear? Knives,
>>>> beatings, assaults of various severity and yes firearms.
>>>> Get rid of firearms and you have the same vicious people
>>>> then add in an incitement to tyranny of an unarmed
>>>> population.
>>>>
>>>> For an elderly woman with some guy coming through her
>>>> bedroom window, a knife or club is of limited utility.
>>>> When seconds matter, 911 is just twenty minutes away.
>>>
>>> As usual, I wonder about other countries. Do they not have
>>> the problems you describe to the degree Americans do? If
>>> they don't, why not? Is it genetics? Or is it laws and
>>> policies?
>>>
>>> If they do have the problems, how do they manage them
>>> without every elderly woman owning an AR rifle or rapid fire
>>> handgun?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What do you mean by 'rapid fire' ? Typical home defense
>> pistols are revolvers and striker type 9mm (or .380 /.40).
>> Those all fire at the same speed[1].
>>
>> I'll bet you can't find even one police or news report in
>> the past year in USA where a full-auto pistol was used for
>> home self-defense.
>
> I did not say "full auto." And I'd say even nine rounds at
> two rounds per second qualifies as "rapid fire." Hunters
> don't do that. Target shooters do that only if they're
> pretending to be in combat.
>
>> OTOH which of these scenarios would you prefer for your
>> relative or yourself?
>>
>> A)Â This common crime?
>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-wordle-mother-saved-lincolnwood-20220211-ecz5istdfrhvzdin4kibdwyrmi-story.html
>>
>>
>> B) or more like this?
>> https://www.foxnews.com/us/elderly-man-shoots-kills-half-naked-home-intruder-who-assaulted-his-wife
>
>
> "Common crime"?? Talk about a "Danger! Danger!" statement!
>
> Somehow, the universe I live in is not nearly so scary, at
> least to me and mine.
>
> But yet again: Why is it necessary for each U.S. household
> to be armed for protection? Why is it not necessary in
> Canada, Britain, Norway, Portugal...
>
>
>> {1} in the real world.
>> In TeeVee world, firearms are magic lead-spraying devices
>> which always hit the intended target such as the bad guy's
>> wrist when wielded by good guy. Bad guy firearms also
>> spray huge quantities just over good guy's head with magic
>> sound effects.
>
> I'm well aware of that silly glorification of gun culture.
>

Hunters ideally stalk in stealth, carefully positioned
downwind and from occlusion, and take great pains to
accurately sight in a lethal shot at the right moment[1].

A woman awakened to the sound of breaking glass at 3 in the
morning needs the second, third, nth shot. Utterly different
situation.

Oh by the way do you have some fixation with hunting? I'm
not a hunter myself but you sure reference that a lot.

[1]Hunters of possibly-lethal-when wounded game, from deer
to moose, and hunters in areas of probable danger from
wolves, etc (Heck, even cyclists on the tundra, as 3 friends
who rode north out of Inuvik learned regarding polar bears)
ought to damned well have a sidearm handy. Those are
frequently M1911A1 in .45ACP.

Then again, some guys don't. Not far from here recently:
https://dailydodge.com/columbia-county-hunter-rescued/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/1/2022 6:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 7:17 PM, John B. wrote:
>>
>> Granted it is hearsay but an Australian friend assures me
>> that when
>> the gun buy back program in Australia was in full swing
>> that the
>> larger diameter plastic piping was in short supply as all
>> over
>> Australia people were buying it to entomb their guns for
>> burial.
>> (buried to keep them of the hands of the gun grabbers)
>
> Actually, I don't have a problem with that. That way, if
> Australia were invaded by, say, New Guinea, the Ozzies could
> dig up their guns and ammo and save their continent. But in
> the meantime, there would be far fewer gun deaths - and
> indeed, that's what did happen.
>
> https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australia-marks-25-years-since-worst-mass-shooting-2021-04-28/
>
>

As your second grade teacher did. One jerk acted up and so
the rest get collective punishment. Great.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 15:34:25 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/1/2022 2:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/1/2022 3:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 3/1/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>>>>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than
>>>>>> Americans,
>>>>>> you'll have a point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>>>>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that have far
>>>>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought up the
>>>>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of
>>>>>> rape and
>>>>>> other violent crimes.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
>>>>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a lot
>>>>>> to do
>>>>>> with their national policies, as implemented by their
>>>>>> laws,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>>>>>> difference in how people behave.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are talking
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> _now_.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
>>>>> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of
>>>>> public housing. Reporter asked if firearms made public
>>>>> housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm
>>>>> themselves for  protection because their hallways and
>>>>> neighborhoods had become more dangerous.
>>>>
>>>> Which doesn't address John's implication that Americans are
>>>> just fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of saying
>>>> that laws and policies make no difference.
>>>>
>>>> But I wonder what those public housing residents are afraid
>>>> of? Is it punks with slingshots? Or punks with some
>>>> different weaponry?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> What do people in violent neighborhoods fear? Knives,
>>> beatings, assaults of various severity and yes firearms.
>>> Get rid of firearms and you have the same vicious people
>>> then add in an incitement to tyranny of an unarmed
>>> population.
>>>
>>> For an elderly woman with some guy coming through her
>>> bedroom window, a knife or club is of limited utility.
>>> When seconds matter, 911 is just twenty minutes away.
>>
>> As usual, I wonder about other countries. Do they not have
>> the problems you describe to the degree Americans do? If
>> they don't, why not? Is it genetics? Or is it laws and
>> policies?
>>
>> If they do have the problems, how do they manage them
>> without every elderly woman owning an AR rifle or rapid fire
>> handgun?
>>
>>
>
>What do you mean by 'rapid fire' ? Typical home defense
>pistols are revolvers and striker type 9mm (or .380 /.40).
>Those all fire at the same speed[1].
>
>I'll bet you can't find even one police or news report in
>the past year in USA where a full-auto pistol was used for
>home self-defense.
>
>OTOH which of these scenarios would you prefer for your
>relative or yourself?
>
>A) This common crime?
>https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-wordle-mother-saved-lincolnwood-20220211-ecz5istdfrhvzdin4kibdwyrmi-story.html
>
>B) or more like this?
>https://www.foxnews.com/us/elderly-man-shoots-kills-half-naked-home-intruder-who-assaulted-his-wife
>
>
>{1} in the real world.
>In TeeVee world, firearms are magic lead-spraying devices
>which always hit the intended target such as the bad guy's
>wrist when wielded by good guy. Bad guy firearms also spray
>huge quantities just over good guy's head with magic sound
>effects.

Somewhere I read a study of "gun fights" involving police. The most
common distance is something like 3 feet and all parties empty their
weapons and a very low, something like only 10%, resulted in injuries
(:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/1/2022 6:53 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 7:10 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:04:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/28/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:35:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>> John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank
>>>>>>>> Krygowski
>>>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>> John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says
>>>>>>>>>>> I was the one who
>>>>>>>>>>> changed the subject?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic
>>>>>>>>>> of Rape, per se.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite
>>>>>>>>> where someone other than you
>>>>>>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must
>>>>>>>>> have missed that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per
>>>>>>>> se" - " a Latin
>>>>>>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.”
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a
>>>>>>>> deliberate attempt to
>>>>>>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less
>>>>>>>> violent crime then
>>>>>>>> the U.S.?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the
>>>>>>> topic of rape at the
>>>>>>> same time you used other words?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in
>>>>>> some manner
>>>>>> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your
>>>>>> ego requires
>>>>>> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept.
>>>>>> If you can't
>>>>>> accept reality then just carry on with your own
>>>>>> dementia. After all
>>>>>> that's what Tom does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your
>>>>> arguments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S.
>>>>> is worse than
>>>>> Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've
>>>>> never posited a
>>>>> reason for the differences.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that
>>>>> Americans are
>>>>> inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why
>>>>> would that be?
>>>>
>>>> Hang in there Frank and maybe you will win.
>>>>
>>>> But yes, I did point out that Canada is much more law
>>>> abiding then the
>>>> U.S. in reply to your arguments that Canada has far
>>>> fewer gun crimes
>>>> then the U.S. Of course they do, that are more law abiding.
>>>>
>>>> And now, just as Tommy does you are changing the topic
>>>> to argue "why
>>>> is Canada more law abiding the U.S."
>>>>
>>>> But lets be honest Frank, you have frequently cited
>>>> Canada as evidence
>>>> that strict, or what you view as strict, gun laws will
>>>> reduce gun
>>>> crimes in the U.S. and when I provide evidence that the
>>>> Canadians are
>>>> far more law abiding then the U.S. you then go slip
>>>> sliding away and
>>>> try to change the subject to WHY the Canadians are more
>>>> law abiding.
>>>>
>>>> So as I said in a previous post, if you want to slap
>>>> yourself on the
>>>> back and complement yourself that you have, yet again,
>>>> overcome the
>>>> opposition and won the argument, go right ahead. It
>>>> makes no
>>>> difference to me as while I post facts you twist and
>>>> turn and post
>>>> suppositions.
>>>
>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ...
>>> inherently?
>>> genetically? ... more civilized than Americans, you'll
>>> have a point.
>>>
>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish,
>>> French, Swedes
>>> and so many other countries that have far fewer gun
>>> deaths than the U.S.
>>> (Since you brought up the subject, I'll rely on you to
>>> look up their
>>> rates of rape and other violent crimes.)
>>>
>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to
>>> assume that
>>> differences in gun death rates have a lot to do with
>>> their national
>>> policies, as implemented by their laws, etc.
>>>
>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>>> difference in how
>>> people behave.
>>>
>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>
>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And
>>> don't change the
>>> subject, John. This is what we are talking about _now_.
>>
>> All right, if you really are set on changing the subject,
>> we will
>> continue.
>>
>> You say "Briefly, my view is that national policies make a
>> big
>> difference in how people behave."
>>
>> Which is to say that your supposition is that ....
>>
>> Which really means what? That you have a vivid
>> imagination? Or that
>> you have conducted a multi year survey of millions of
>> inhabitants of
>> both the U.S. and Canada to determine to the nth degree
>> why they act
>> as they do?
>>
>> I suggest that your suppositions are just that, examples
>> of a vivid
>> imaginations and have nothing to do with reality.
>>
>> I prefer to deal in facts... that based on reported crime
>> rates the
>> Canadians are a far more law abiding nation then the U.S.
>>
>> No suppositions, no imagination, no "well I think". Just
>> facts.
>
> OK, John, let's return to some "facts" you've repeatedly
> reported.
>
> On many occasions, you've discussed with apparent approval
> the extremely strict laws of Singapore, everything from
> spitting on sidewalks to dealing drugs. Each time you've
> done that, you ended with statements like "And in Singapore,
> people don't do those things."
>
> Your implication was NOT that Singaporeans are genetically
> prone to be well behaved people. Your implication was that
> properly enforced laws DO cause people to change their
> behavior.
>
> But you work just as hard to imply that the differences
> between American crime data and that of Canada, Britain,
> Ireland etc. are _not_ the legal policies and other
> government and social policies. And when I ask for details,
> YOU change the subject.
>
> Care to tell me why what works for Singapore, Canada,
> France, Germany and more would not work in the U.S.? Is it
> American genetics? Really?
>

On 3/1/2022 7:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/1/2022 6:10 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:04:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/28/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:35:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I was the
>>>>>>>>>>> one who
>>>>>>>>>>> changed the subject?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic of Rape,
>>>>>>>>>> per se.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where someone
>>>>>>>>> other than you
>>>>>>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must have missed
>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se" - " a Latin
>>>>>>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.”
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a deliberate
>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less violent
>>>>>>>> crime then
>>>>>>>> the U.S.?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the topic of
>>>>>>> rape at the
>>>>>>> same time you used other words?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in some manner
>>>>>> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego requires
>>>>>> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept. If you can't
>>>>>> accept reality then just carry on with your own dementia. After all
>>>>>> that's what Tom does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your arguments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S. is worse than
>>>>> Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've never posited a
>>>>> reason for the differences.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that Americans are
>>>>> inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why would that be?
>>>>
>>>> Hang in there Frank and maybe you will win.
>>>>
>>>> But yes, I did point out that Canada is much more law abiding then the
>>>> U.S. in reply to your arguments that Canada has far fewer gun crimes
>>>> then the U.S. Of course they do, that are more law abiding.
>>>>
>>>> And now, just as Tommy does you are changing the topic to argue "why
>>>> is Canada more law abiding the U.S."
>>>>
>>>> But lets be honest Frank, you have frequently cited Canada as evidence
>>>> that strict, or what you view as strict, gun laws will reduce gun
>>>> crimes in the U.S. and when I provide evidence that the Canadians are
>>>> far more law abiding then the U.S. you then go slip sliding away and
>>>> try to change the subject to WHY the Canadians are more law abiding.
>>>>
>>>> So as I said in a previous post, if you want to slap yourself on the
>>>> back and complement yourself that you have, yet again, overcome the
>>>> opposition and won the argument, go right ahead. It makes no
>>>> difference to me as while I post facts you twist and turn and post
>>>> suppositions.
>>>
>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians are ... inherently?
>>> genetically? ... more civilized than Americans, you'll have a point.
>>>
>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits, Irish, French, Swedes
>>> and so many other countries that have far fewer gun deaths than the U.S.
>>> (Since you brought up the subject, I'll rely on you to look up their
>>> rates of rape and other violent crimes.)
>>>
>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm going to assume that
>>> differences in gun death rates have a lot to do with their national
>>> policies, as implemented by their laws, etc.
>>>
>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big difference in how
>>> people behave.
>>>
>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>
>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different. And don't change the
>>> subject, John. This is what we are talking about _now_.
>>
>> All right, if you really are set on changing the subject, we will
>> continue.
>>
>> You say "Briefly, my view is that national policies make a big
>> difference in how people behave."
>>
>> Which is to say that your supposition is that ....
>>
>> Which really means what? That you have a vivid imagination? Or that
>> you have conducted a multi year survey of millions of inhabitants of
>> both the U.S. and Canada to determine to the nth degree why they act
>> as they do?
>>
>> I suggest that your suppositions are just that, examples of a vivid
>> imaginations and have nothing to do with reality.
>>
>> I prefer to deal in facts... that based on reported crime rates the
>> Canadians are a far more law abiding nation then the U.S.
>>
>> No suppositions, no imagination, no "well I think". Just facts.
>>
>
> Well, I wonder if we have a natural experiment to use in comparison? Oh,
> maybe we do. The national 55mph speed limit was imposed on the States.
> Even States unwilling were coerced/bribed with the Highway Trust Fund
> into compliance, more or less[1].
>
> So, how's speed limit compliance going?
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/s88fcy/flow_of_traffic_on_the_beltline/
>
>
> That conversation is ubiquitous- any expressway, any Interstate. So
> would you maintain that a change of law effected a change in countenance?

Speed limits absolutely make a difference. No, they are not perfect -
and Andrew, you really need to drop the idea that imperfect results are
the same as zero results.

Some cases in point: According to Wikipedia, the German Autobahn has
reported average speeds of 88 mph in its unrestricted zones. It has 72
mph in its 75 mph (120 kph) zones.

In the U.S., Wyoming is noted for zero, or very lax speed enforcement
plus high speed limits (up to 80 mph). South Dakota also allows speeds
up to 80, and New Mexico allows up to 75mph. Which states have the
fastest drivers? "#1 Wyoming: 21.09% of drivers exceed 70 mph. #2
South Dakota: 17.07% #3 New Mexico: 16.50% ."

And in my own nearby city: For a couple years, the twisty inner city
freeway long had a bad reputation for both speeding and serious crashes.
Then came enforcement - sort of. The city began using speed cameras, and
I say "sort of" because no ticket could be issued until the limit was
exceeded by 10 mph. The result? Speeding became a far smaller problem,
and serious crashes dropped even more.