On 9 Feb 2023 at 8:33:11 AM EET, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

> In message <trqoes$32dj1$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:40 on Mon, 6 Feb
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why are you continuing to flog this dead horse argument? I know how to
>>> use the phones, but I can't access a facility that simply doesn't exist.
>>>
>>> And yes, for the umpteenth time, "Swipe up" does *NOTHING* on my phone.
>>
>> Why don't you configure it to do something useful then?
>
> There's no user-configurable option to achieve that. Odd you should
> still be under the misapprehension there might be.

This, at least, might well be true, given how ancient Roland's phones are.

Android didn't really get system-wide gesture support until Android 9 (wherein
it was half-baked and awful), and didn't get *good* system-wide gesture
support until Android 10, at which point they'd ditched what they did in v9
and essentially just copied what Samsung had been doing for a few years.
Since then, it's been pretty much unchanged. (Samsung were the first to drop
the dedicated apps/home/back buttons to move to "all screen" phones, and
introduced gesture support at around the same time as part of the
'replacement' of physical buttons.)

Given that the Android 6 generation (Samsung Galaxy S7 being an example) were
the last to have physical buttons, and the all-glass generation (Galaxy S8 on)
launched with Android 7, it's quite likely even Roland's Samsung is too old to
have gesture support.

However, search for an app very much is a facility that does exist, even in
Android 6, as I've demonstrated elsewhere. Roland just needs to find the
manual for his phone to learn how to use it.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
> By beef is much more with names like Demon's successor "Thus", …

Nitpick: Thus was Demon’s successor in the sense that Thus’s predecessor,
Scottish Telecom, bought Demon and then later ST changed its name to Thus
(“Let It Be Thus!” was the initial tag line, IIRC). The term “successor”
might make you think that Demon became Thus, which it didn’t.

> The CoOp's robot delivery service is called "Starship". Go figure.
>
> [snip]
>
> I suppose some might commend their enterprise, though.

:-)

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 08/02/2023 16:00, Adrian wrote:
>>> In message <ts0gbi$7tn1$3@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes
>>>> On 01/02/2023 09:17, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> The story about the anglo saxons ethnic cleansing local populations and
>>>>> pushing them to the margins is a convenient myth for various
>>>>> nationalists.
>>>>> Many DNA surveys have shown that most people in england have majority
>>>>> celtic
>>>>> blood in them. Its faily clear the saxons just like the normans
>>>>> invaded, took
>>>>> over and interbred with the locals. They didn't kill them all or turn
>>>>> them
>>>>> into refugees.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A well known TV Historian from the Borders was on a TV programme using
>>>> DNA.  He expected to be 100% Scottish but was surprised to find a high
>>>> proportion of Anglo-Saxon.  He was told that many people were brought
>>>> in from the South of England to work in the area and of course much of
>>>> the South of Scotland was part of England for a long time.
>>>
>>> And some might argue that parts of Northern England were Scottish at
>>> times (by occupation if nothing else).
>>>
>>
>> There are people claiming the Borders should be regarded as a separate
>> country, neither England or Scotland.
>>
>
> Berwick upon Tweed feels neither part of England nor Scotland. But that
> could possibly said of many places. Shetland isn’t really Scotland.

I think I’ve mentioned before hearing, a long, long time ago, a radio
program where they did a vox pop and asked people in B-u-T whether they
regarded themselves as English or Scottish. One, in a
home-counties-retired-colonel kind of accent, said, “Oh, Scotch, definitely
Scotch!”

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <trqoes$32dj1$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:40 on Mon, 6 Feb
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <qbjvthtk60pd4oqgbeortg56uigdeqd3s8@4ax.com>, at 15:39:06 on
>>> Sun, 5 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 15:11:07 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <bbdnth16gukakrofpdrpls2q0hmv37hj0g@4ax.com>, at 13:10:43 on
>>>>> Thu, 2 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Feb 2023 16:14:37 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>>>>>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <trc5i6$hic$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:43:18 on Tue, 31 Jan
>>>>>>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <6mnhthhhqrsauchfp7r1jdjdp0rpj0llqp@4ax.com>, at
>>>>>>>>>> 09:29:56 on
>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 31 Jan 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:43:19 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <tr92ca$3d25i$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:30:34 on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mon, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <tr8k1r$3ar6n$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:26:03 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mon, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On iPhone it's "swipe down on the home screen". I don't have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work phone with me right now to try on android.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've tried on two here. Zilch.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How on earth do you do an internet search on your phone? On my home
>>>>>>>>>>> screen there's a Google search box. I type, or begin to type,
>>>>>>>>>>> a search
>>>>>>>>>>> term into it and get results, whether they're apps or internet
>>>>>>>>>>> results.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I do the above[1], but it never returns any results which are apps
>>>>>>>>>> installed on my phone, …
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You’ve got a crap phone,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> $600 phones from LG and Samsung. Their marketing departments would be
>>>>>>>> mortified.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neither which has a really useful feature which every phone used by the
>>>>>>> other correspondents here has. <shrug>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Android is highly configurable, both by the manufacturer and the user,
>>>>>> so it could well be that Roland's phones don't access Drawer mode by
>>>>>> swiping up on the home screen. Mine doesn't, either, but I obviously do
>>>>>> know how to access that mode on my phone, and how to find all loaded
>>>>>> apps. Roland's problem is that, despite thinking he's an expert, he
>>>>>> doesn't know the basics of how to use an Android phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> My problem is that despite being an expert at using at least three
>>>>> mobile phone platforms for purposes other than merely finding an
>>>>> app-in-a-haystack, when I try the relevant "Basics" mentioned here they
>>>>> don't work. On my phone.
>>>>
>>>> Yup, that just proves you don't know how to use your own phone, or
>>>> Android phones in general.
>>>
>>> Why are you continuing to flog this dead horse argument? I know how to
>>> use the phones, but I can't access a facility that simply doesn't exist.
>>>
>>> And yes, for the umpteenth time, "Swipe up" does *NOTHING* on my phone.
>>
>> Why don't you configure it to do something useful then?
>
> There's no user-configurable option to achieve that. Odd you should
> still be under the misapprehension there might be.

As I don't know what vintage model you have, how could I know what normal
features are actually missing, as opposed to undiscovered by you?

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <lrn4uhl5omojh1f07s2moq4is0a42jquma@4ax.com>, at 14:31:57 on
> Tue, 7 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 19:17:44 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <qbjvthtk60pd4oqgbeortg56uigdeqd3s8@4ax.com>, at 15:39:06 on
>>>> Sun, 5 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 15:11:07 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <bbdnth16gukakrofpdrpls2q0hmv37hj0g@4ax.com>, at 13:10:43 on
>>>>>> Thu, 2 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Feb 2023 16:14:37 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>>>>>>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <trc5i6$hic$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:43:18 on Tue, 31 Jan
>>>>>>>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <6mnhthhhqrsauchfp7r1jdjdp0rpj0llqp@4ax.com>, at
>>>>>>>>>>> 09:29:56 on
>>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 31 Jan 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:43:19 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <tr92ca$3d25i$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:30:34 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <tr8k1r$3ar6n$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:26:03 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mon, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On iPhone it's "swipe down on the home screen". I don't have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work phone with me right now to try on android.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've tried on two here. Zilch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> How on earth do you do an internet search on your phone? On my home
>>>>>>>>>>>> screen there's a Google search box. I type, or begin to
>>>>>>>>>>>> type, a search
>>>>>>>>>>>> term into it and get results, whether they're apps or internet
>>>>>>>>>>>> results.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I do the above[1], but it never returns any results which are apps
>>>>>>>>>>> installed on my phone, …
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You’ve got a crap phone,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> $600 phones from LG and Samsung. Their marketing departments would be
>>>>>>>>> mortified.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Neither which has a really useful feature which every phone used by the
>>>>>>>> other correspondents here has. <shrug>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Android is highly configurable, both by the manufacturer and the user,
>>>>>>> so it could well be that Roland's phones don't access Drawer mode by
>>>>>>> swiping up on the home screen. Mine doesn't, either, but I obviously do
>>>>>>> know how to access that mode on my phone, and how to find all loaded
>>>>>>> apps. Roland's problem is that, despite thinking he's an expert, he
>>>>>>> doesn't know the basics of how to use an Android phone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My problem is that despite being an expert at using at least three
>>>>>> mobile phone platforms for purposes other than merely finding an
>>>>>> app-in-a-haystack, when I try the relevant "Basics" mentioned here they
>>>>>> don't work. On my phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yup, that just proves you don't know how to use your own phone, or
>>>>> Android phones in general.
>>>>
>>>> Why are you continuing to flog this dead horse argument? I know how to
>>>> use the phones, but I can't access a facility that simply doesn't exist.
>>>>
>>>> And yes, for the umpteenth time, "Swipe up" does *NOTHING* on my phone.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I can’t remember now, but did you tell us the manufacturer and model
>>> number?
>>
>> He's mentioned a couple of manufacturers' names, but not the model,
>> year of purchase (not that Roland would know when the first user first
>> purchased his elderly phones)
>
> The first user to buy *my* phone, was me. Looking at the photos I took,
> I'm reminded that the first outing was as a teller on Saturday May 8th
> 2021 [second day, after the Thursday vote; PCC and Mayor, on the Friday
> we counted the councillors], as a plane buff you can perhaps identify
> the location:

You managed to buy a *new* Android 6 phone in 2021? What model?

>
> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Election_2021.jpg
>
> That's closest we were allowed to get to the exhibits, because the venue
> was officially closed because of Covid.
>
> The first user to buy an example of the model, is a matter of public
> record.
>
>> or specification (other than the small 1.65mp screen size).
>
> Where did that come from?

From a screen shot you uploaded.

> Out of the red mist that so often descends,
> perhaps. Or maybe just plucked from your arse. It's a 5.7", 4.2mp
> screen.

Try multiplying the axis dimensions. It won't come to 4.2mp.

> Very slightly smaller, but twice as many pixels, as the previous
> model I had.
>
>> It's always amusing that Roland can't see the connection between his
>> boasts of buying ancient, used, low spec, very cheap phones
>
> Lies, and more lies. Every single description there is a lie.
>
>> and his subsequent problems
>
> It's not *that* much of a problem, just a side effect of me having so
> many apps, with often stupid names, that it's sometimes hard to find the
> one you want six months after installing it.
>
>> with using ancient, low spec phones, that have probably been configured
>> by the earlier users in ways he can't understand.
>
> And another pack of lies. Are you *really* that ignorant of the concept
> of "factory reset", even if that was necessary (which in this case it
> wouldn't be, but as a security measure always would be on a pre-owned
> phone). And in fact so contemptuous of the retail trade that you think
> they'd even consider selling pre-owned phones that weren't in that
> state. But as this is a first-user phone, the matter doesn't arise.
>
>> I'm also amused that someone who hardly travels anywhere has a huge
>> collection of travel apps on his phone.
>
> You are easily amused.
>
> There's a fundamental contradiction here, between your self-confessed
> obsession for the new-and-shiny, and dismissing why someone might want
> to keep up with the latest technology, despite not being an immediate
> user of the particular service.
>
> Rather than start more hares running, the most recent non-rail example
> I've been posting about is the Voi electric bike scheme in Cambridge.
>
> That's of course a "somewhere" I travel a lot. But I'm most unlikely to
> want to hire one myself. Unlike the short-lived dockless pushbike scheme
> which came before that, where I *did* hire one just to see what it was
> like (it was shit, not just the app for locating the nearest available
> one, and but the vehicle itself).
>
> Last week in Cambridge I saw (again) the grocery delivery drones, and my
> wife commented that it was just the sort of thing I'd use if it was
> available closer to home. Actually, I might in such circumstances use it
> just once, to see how well it worked in practice; but for a regular
> weekly shop it's a non-starter. Nor do I want to start doing twice-daily
> shops. That's also got a silly name, and didn't you fail to get the 1701
> reference?

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 18:43:14 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 08/02/2023 16:00, Adrian wrote:
>> In message <ts0gbi$7tn1$3@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes
>>> On 01/02/2023 09:17, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> The story about the anglo saxons ethnic cleansing local populations and
>>>> pushing them to the margins is a convenient myth for various
>>>> nationalists.
>>>> Many DNA surveys have shown that most people in england have majority
>>>> celtic
>>>> blood in them. Its faily clear the saxons just like the normans
>>>> invaded, took
>>>> over and interbred with the locals. They didn't kill them all or turn
>>>> them
>>>> into refugees.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A well known TV Historian from the Borders was on a TV programme using
>>> DNA.  He expected to be 100% Scottish but was surprised to find a high
>>> proportion of Anglo-Saxon.  He was told that many people were brought
>>> in from the South of England to work in the area and of course much of
>>> the South of Scotland was part of England for a long time.
>>
>> And some might argue that parts of Northern England were Scottish at
>> times (by occupation if nothing else).
>>
>
>There are people claiming the Borders should be regarded as a separate
>country, neither England or Scotland.

If scotland went independent I suspect the Shetland islands might have their
own vote about whether to go with holyrood or stay part of the UK and if
Sturgeon really believes in the will of the people as shes wont to proclaim
she'd accept the result whatever it is.

On Thu, 9 Feb 2023 00:26:59 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> Christ, thats a hack if I've ever heard of one! Presumably you had to design
>> the video controller to be able to float its pins rather than pull up/down
>by
>> default?
>
>Sounds like a standard tristate output as used on bus drivers (no, the
>buses in computers, silly!) e.g. 74LS244 and 74LS245, and a whole load of
>other chips, but those ones came back to me after nearly 40 years.

Analogue computers all well and good if you have a spot on power supply
voltage and good quality components, otherwise ... not so much. Unless you
don't care much about accuracy which I suppose for colour you wouldn't too
much given the TVs of the day were hardly DTP quality.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 18:43:14 +0000
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 08/02/2023 16:00, Adrian wrote:
>>> In message <ts0gbi$7tn1$3@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes
>>>> On 01/02/2023 09:17, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> The story about the anglo saxons ethnic cleansing local populations and
>>>>> pushing them to the margins is a convenient myth for various
>>>>> nationalists.
>>>>> Many DNA surveys have shown that most people in england have majority
>>>>> celtic
>>>>> blood in them. Its faily clear the saxons just like the normans
>>>>> invaded, took
>>>>> over and interbred with the locals. They didn't kill them all or turn
>>>>> them
>>>>> into refugees.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A well known TV Historian from the Borders was on a TV programme using
>>>> DNA.  He expected to be 100% Scottish but was surprised to find a high
>>>> proportion of Anglo-Saxon.  He was told that many people were brought
>>>> in from the South of England to work in the area and of course much of
>>>> the South of Scotland was part of England for a long time.
>>>
>>> And some might argue that parts of Northern England were Scottish at
>>> times (by occupation if nothing else).
>>>
>>
>> There are people claiming the Borders should be regarded as a separate
>> country, neither England or Scotland.
>
> If scotland went independent I suspect the Shetland islands might have their
> own vote about whether to go with holyrood or stay part of the UK and if
> Sturgeon really believes in the will of the people as shes wont to proclaim
> she'd accept the result whatever it is.

Sturgeon is heading for retirement from politics (she's thoight to be
angling for a UN job), and she certainly won't achieve independence before
then.

In message <trqp03$3294a$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:40:51 on Mon, 6 Feb
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 06.02.23 12:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tr8v06$3cake$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:32:54 on Mon, 30 Jan
>>2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>> On 30.01.23 16:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <tr8lnn$3aurt$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:54:47 on Mon, 30
>>>>Jan 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 30/01/2023 14:11, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <tr3nkl$2ap5m$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:56:36 on Sat, 28
>>>>>>Jan  2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 28/01/2023 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <tr10h8$1pc5c$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:10:00 on Fri,
>>>>>>>>27 Jan  2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Another* new app! This is becoming a daily phenomenon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keep up - it’s not hard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've got perhaps 300 already, I don't want to be having to
>>>>>>>>>>>>coping  with
>>>>>>>>>>>> 600 by next Xmas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Especially when the relatively tiny screen only shows 20 at
>>>>>>>>>>>>a time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Some people might decide to group them in folders.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  I have some in folders when they are tight-knit groups
>>>>>>>>>>as  car-parking-fee apps). But it's not always obvious how to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  So for example do you put Google Maps in a Google folder,
>>>>>>>>>>Maps  folder.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What works better for you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  "None of the above", but that's not an option.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes it is. Don't put it in a folder.
>>>>
>>>>>>  But then it's on one of seven or eight screenfulls to swipe
>>>>>>between;  needle in a haystack.
>>>>>
>>>>> No.  Each screen is for a specific purpose.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a travelling screen with things like ToC apps and Wetherspoons.
>>>>>
>>>>> I created a holiday screen for my recent holiday which included
>>>>>calendar, Dutch and German railway apps, and links to certain web pages.
>>
>>>>  If that works for you, then that's great. But mine has far more
>>>>"horizontal" apps than those rather scenario-specific ones. Banking
>>>> for example, is independent of what trips I might be about to
>>>>engage upon.
>>>
>>> If you need an app in more than one scenario, just put the button to
>>>open the app on more than one screen.
>> But I don't have "screens for scenarios". There'd be dozens of them,
>>were that to be the case.
>
>I find three scenario specific screens plus a fourth for apps that I
>occasionally use but not often enough to justify a place on one of the
>other three is plenty. I can imagine perhaps two or three more
>potential scenarios that I personally don't find myself in often enough
>for it to be useful but others might.
>
>The only way I could create dozens of screens with the number of apss
>on my phone is if every screen had fewer than 3 "unique" apps on it.

As I think I've hinted earlier, it's a scaling issue. Even with folders
containing 11, 6, 4, 6, 15 and 26 (for various commonalities - the four
is Parking Apps, for example) I've still got six screens (none with less
than 12 apps/folders) grouped in vague clusters of likely frequency of
use, rather than the scenarios I might use them.

There's still some work to do - I could make seventh and eighth (etc)
folders for mapping, social media, cameras and video editing, mainstream
media, airline/airports, ecommerce, banking, home appliances (yes, even
the vacuum cleaner came with an App) and so on.
--
Roland Perry

On 08/02/2023 18:48, Tweed wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 08/02/2023 16:00, Adrian wrote:
>>> In message <ts0gbi$7tn1$3@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes
>>>> On 01/02/2023 09:17, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> The story about the anglo saxons ethnic cleansing local populations and
>>>>> pushing them to the margins is a convenient myth for various
>>>>> nationalists.
>>>>> Many DNA surveys have shown that most people in england have majority
>>>>> celtic
>>>>> blood in them. Its faily clear the saxons just like the normans
>>>>> invaded, took
>>>>> over and interbred with the locals. They didn't kill them all or turn
>>>>> them
>>>>> into refugees.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A well known TV Historian from the Borders was on a TV programme using
>>>> DNA.  He expected to be 100% Scottish but was surprised to find a high
>>>> proportion of Anglo-Saxon.  He was told that many people were brought
>>>> in from the South of England to work in the area and of course much of
>>>> the South of Scotland was part of England for a long time.
>>>
>>> And some might argue that parts of Northern England were Scottish at
>>> times (by occupation if nothing else).
>>>
>>
>> There are people claiming the Borders should be regarded as a separate
>> country, neither England or Scotland.
>>
>
> Berwick upon Tweed feels neither part of England nor Scotland. But that
> could possibly said of many places. Shetland isn’t really Scotland.
>

Re: Shetland. Absolutely!

--
Colin

On 09/02/2023 09:59, Recliner wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 18:43:14 +0000
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 08/02/2023 16:00, Adrian wrote:
>>>> In message <ts0gbi$7tn1$3@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes
>>>>> On 01/02/2023 09:17, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>> The story about the anglo saxons ethnic cleansing local populations and
>>>>>> pushing them to the margins is a convenient myth for various
>>>>>> nationalists.
>>>>>> Many DNA surveys have shown that most people in england have majority
>>>>>> celtic
>>>>>> blood in them. Its faily clear the saxons just like the normans
>>>>>> invaded, took
>>>>>> over and interbred with the locals. They didn't kill them all or turn
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> into refugees.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A well known TV Historian from the Borders was on a TV programme using
>>>>> DNA.  He expected to be 100% Scottish but was surprised to find a high
>>>>> proportion of Anglo-Saxon.  He was told that many people were brought
>>>>> in from the South of England to work in the area and of course much of
>>>>> the South of Scotland was part of England for a long time.
>>>>
>>>> And some might argue that parts of Northern England were Scottish at
>>>> times (by occupation if nothing else).
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are people claiming the Borders should be regarded as a separate
>>> country, neither England or Scotland.
>>
>> If scotland went independent I suspect the Shetland islands might have their
>> own vote about whether to go with holyrood or stay part of the UK and if
>> Sturgeon really believes in the will of the people as shes wont to proclaim
>> she'd accept the result whatever it is.
>
> Sturgeon is heading for retirement from politics (she's thoight to be
> angling for a UN job), and she certainly won't achieve independence before
> then.
>

Hurrah!

--
Colin

On 09/02/2023 09:59, Recliner wrote:
> Sturgeon is heading for retirement from politics (she's thoight to be
> angling for a UN job), and she certainly won't achieve independence before
> then.

She will probably hope to follow some of the Labour Party failures and
get a highly paid job in the US or perhaps more likely retire to
Portugal :-)

I keep meaning to see what odd the online bookmakers are offering on how
long she will last in her job.

I have noticed that until recently that anyone criticising the SNP on
line would get lots of the party faithful attacking them but it does not
seem to be happening now.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 01/02/2023 10:20, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> I’m aware that many, even most, residents of England know the difference
>> between England and the UK; it’s the attitude that Muttley exemplifies that
>> really shouldn’t be left unchallenged.
>
>
>
> I keep waiting to hear what the nationalists plan to with the "Outdoor
> Capital of the UK" in the (hopefully unlikely) event of partition.
> Fortunately looking more and more unlikely.
>
> I am just hoping that the Lake District or Snowdonia is ready to jump in
> and take over the brand if it did happen - first come first served!

I’d hope any separation would be between friends, much like the way things
have ended up[1] on the island of Ireland. My fears about that not coming
about initially rested on the kind of people who would want to punish
Scotland for seeking independence. My fears are now much more with the SNP
who seem to be basing their current policy on making everything
Westminster’s fault. I do think that strategy will (or maybe has)
backfired which, as a pragmatic rather than ideological supporter of
Scottish independence, makes me sad.

[1] Yes, it’s taken a while and it’s not finished yet. I don’t see any
reason for it to come to that extreme. Maybe Czechia and Slovakia would be
a better example but I don’t know what the relationship is currently like.
I probably wouldn’t want to use Yugoslavia as a model.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Thu, 9 Feb 2023 12:00:47 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 01/02/2023 10:20, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> I’m aware that many, even most, residents of England know the difference
>>> between England and the UK; it’s the attitude that Muttley exemplifies that
>>> really shouldn’t be left unchallenged.
>>
>>
>>
>> I keep waiting to hear what the nationalists plan to with the "Outdoor
>> Capital of the UK" in the (hopefully unlikely) event of partition.
>> Fortunately looking more and more unlikely.
>>
>> I am just hoping that the Lake District or Snowdonia is ready to jump in
>> and take over the brand if it did happen - first come first served!
>
>I’d hope any separation would be between friends, much like the way things
>have ended up[1] on the island of Ireland. My fears about that not coming
>about initially rested on the kind of people who would want to punish
>Scotland for seeking independence. My fears are now much more with the SNP
>who seem to be basing their current policy on making everything
>Westminster’s fault. I do think that strategy will (or maybe has)
>backfired which, as a pragmatic rather than ideological supporter of
>Scottish independence, makes me sad.
>
>[1] Yes, it’s taken a while and it’s not finished yet. I don’t see any
>reason for it to come to that extreme. Maybe Czechia and Slovakia would be
>a better example but I don’t know what the relationship is currently like.

That was a relatively recent, short-lived union — Czechoslovakia was only created as an independent country in 1918,
forcibly split and dissolved in 1938 under the Nazis, re-formed after WWII, but under Soviet control, achieved
independence again in 1989, and finally split amicably in 1992. So it only had a grand total of 23 years as an
independent country, in two stints, at the beginning and end of its existence.

While part of Austro-Hungary, they were separate members of the empire, with the Czech side regarded as part of Austria
and the Slovak side part of Hungary. So they weren't simply one occupied country.

>I probably wouldn’t want to use Yugoslavia as a model.

That country was only held together by one charismatic dictator. But even during its existence, the constituent
countries weren't particularly united.

In message <trr8ku$35b5u$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:07:58 on Mon, 6 Feb
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 13:33:52 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <trqidt$31cbi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:48:45 on Mon, 6 Feb
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>Re Amstrad - you got what you paid for. Which generally wasn't much in either
>>>case.
>>
>>The main thing there was a lack of any plausible alternatives. In most
>
>Oh I dunno, dixons and curries did some cheap own brand crap with japanesy
>sounding names (which I can't remember) IIRC.

I remember them well. We even allowed for the CPC464 to be branded with
some of those names, but the only one which ultimately rolled out was
Schneider (a German consumer electronics brand).

>>As a bit of background, at the time I was working with an outfit that
>>one might call the "posh man's Maplin", and as well as selling a range
>
>Tandy?

No, you can't seriously expect Tandy to have got involved with customers
in the way I described.

Anyway, their UK HQ (which had very little autonomy to do anything but
import and distribution) was in Birmingham, not Brentwood. *However*
some years earlier that autonomy did extend to being permitted to source
an external floppy for the TRS-80, with a 240v power supply.

The parent company had no interest in such a small market. But the firm
I was working for back then did get the deal to supply those units. And
because I was involved in the introduction got a finders fee of 1% of
the wholesale value of the orders. Some useful extra pocket money.

>>I only entertained it as a project because I quite familiar with the
>>dogs dinner that only its mother should love [and they did], known as
>>the BBC Micro, and thought "we can do better than that".
>
>I've noticed you're a bit biased against the BBC.

It was OK when launched, but getting a bit long in the tooth by Xmas
1984.

>It was a good machine with admittedly way too many chips on the board
>but I guess they used off the shelf components. It was highly
>expandable not least with slots for extra ROMs and the BASIC was damn
>fast + it had procedures.

They should have made a Mk2 with more of the circuitry integrated into
custom chips, to bring the build cost down. We unashamedly copied the
expandability, and ensured we had a very fast BASIC.

But also made the BASIC far more elegant, no "Peeks and Pokes", or
function calls cluttered with null entries and strings of commas.

>>Some of the features which made it better than the competition were
>>incredibly cheap to manufacture. The 27 colours instead of 16 (or 8 in
>>normal and bright in most instances) cost just six resistors.
>>
>>How did that work? Well, you have an output from the video controller
>>that most designers perceived as ON or OFF, and hence RGB with two
>>states each is 2^3 or eight.
>>
>>But we added FLOAT, with a pair of resistors between 5v and ground to
>>hold the level half-way (but easily over-powered by a solid 0v or 5v
>>from the chip). So three states for each of RGB, and hence 3^3 = 27
>>colours.
>
>Christ, thats a hack if I've ever heard of one!

It was obvious once it had been suggested. I can't claim the credit - it
was the hardware guy designing that bit of the gate array who asked "why
do you only want 8 colours, when 27 would be just as easy".

>Presumably you had to design the video controller to be able to float
>its pins rather than pull up/down by default?

It's not a function of the video controller (in the normal sense such as
a 6845) which does the video memory access, vertical and horizontal
synch - but in the palette circuitry which was separate (and in our case
inside the Gate Array).

(Some light reading: http://logonsystem.fr/down/ACCC1.3-EN.pdf)

Even a computer with sixteen colours can usually only simultaneously
display eight, and four or two in higher resolution modes. But the user
ought to be able to pick *which* eight, four or two, out of the full
palette. Or in the case of the CPC, which sixteen, four or two, from 27.

In the BASIC there was provision not just to load the palette, but also
have 'flashing' colours, where it was automatically flipped between two
values. Note the famous Perry dry humour in the manual (p F3.6) where
there's an example of setting up flashing between the two colours 'sky
blue' and 'pink'.

Of course, that also requires the power to surreptitiously name two of
the colours like that. It was always a regret there wasn't a colour we
could plausibly call "Deep Purple".
--
Roland Perry

In message <ts1ekj$d7pb$1@dont-email.me>, at 00:26:59 on Thu, 9 Feb
2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 13:33:52 +0000
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <trqidt$31cbi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:48:45 on Mon, 6 Feb
>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> Re Amstrad - you got what you paid for. Which generally wasn't much
>>>>in either
>>>> case.
>>>
>>> The main thing there was a lack of any plausible alternatives. In most
>>
>> Oh I dunno, dixons and curries did some cheap own brand crap with japanesy
>> sounding names (which I can't remember) IIRC.
>>
>>> As a bit of background, at the time I was working with an outfit that
>>> one might call the "posh man's Maplin", and as well as selling a range
>>
>> Tandy?
>>
>>> I only entertained it as a project because I quite familiar with the
>>> dogs dinner that only its mother should love [and they did], known as
>>> the BBC Micro, and thought "we can do better than that".
>>
>> I've noticed you're a bit biased against the BBC. It was a good machine with
>> admittedly way too many chips on the board but I guess they used off the
>> shelf components. It was highly expandable not least with slots for extra
>> ROMs and the BASIC was damn fast + it had procedures.
>>
>>> Some of the features which made it better than the competition were
>>> incredibly cheap to manufacture. The 27 colours instead of 16 (or 8 in
>>> normal and bright in most instances) cost just six resistors.
>>>
>>> How did that work? Well, you have an output from the video controller
>>> that most designers perceived as ON or OFF, and hence RGB with two
>>> states each is 2^3 or eight.
>>>
>>> But we added FLOAT, with a pair of resistors between 5v and ground to
>>> hold the level half-way (but easily over-powered by a solid 0v or 5v
>>> from the chip). So three states for each of RGB, and hence 3^3 = 27
>>> colours.
>>
>> Christ, thats a hack if I've ever heard of one! Presumably you had to design
>> the video controller to be able to float its pins rather than pull
>>up/down by
>> default?
>
>Sounds like a standard tristate output as used on bus drivers (no, the
>buses in computers, silly!) e.g. 74LS244 and 74LS245, and a whole load of
>other chips, but those ones came back to me after nearly 40 years.

Yes, and the gate array technology basically allowed the designer to
cut-and-paste TTL equivalents like that together (in the rev 1 for the
CPC, 625 of such gates; which is few enough you can design it on a big
enough sheet of paper; CAD tools came later).

It wasn't in the CRTC LSI chip.
--
Roland Perry

On 09/02/2023 12:00, Sam Wilson wrote:
> [1] Yes, it’s taken a while and it’s not finished yet. I don’t see any
> reason for it to come to that extreme. Maybe Czechia and Slovakia would be
> a better example but I don’t know what the relationship is currently like.
> I probably wouldn’t want to use Yugoslavia as a model.

There was a report on recently on the anniversary of the Czechia /
Slovakia split and it was said to have been very amicable.

I think the danger if there is partition of Scotland is from the
Scottish side. I can't see any official restrictions from England though
I think that with all the bitterness there has been from the SNP, people
might avoid Scottish products in the shops like some avoid anything from
Southern Ireland.

Hopefully the SNP might collapse or at least they might move back from
wanting partition. Sturgeon does seem to be Dead (Wo)Man Walking.

I do hope that if they do go ahead then they should pay the full cost.
It is going to be expensive to split many functions that have been
combined and shared for years. So the whole cost of that should be paid
by Scotland.

On Thu, 9 Feb 2023 09:59:58 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> If scotland went independent I suspect the Shetland islands might have their
>> own vote about whether to go with holyrood or stay part of the UK and if
>> Sturgeon really believes in the will of the people as shes wont to proclaim
>> she'd accept the result whatever it is.
>
>Sturgeon is heading for retirement from politics (she's thoight to be
>angling for a UN job), and she certainly won't achieve independence before
>then.

She'd certainly be perfect for the UN - lots of virtue signalling and hot
air about issues most people don't care about and doing little about the ones
they do.

On Thu, 9 Feb 2023 13:22:11 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <trr8ku$35b5u$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:07:58 on Mon, 6 Feb
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>As a bit of background, at the time I was working with an outfit that
>>>one might call the "posh man's Maplin", and as well as selling a range
>>
>>Tandy?
>
>No, you can't seriously expect Tandy to have got involved with customers
>in the way I described.

I can't think of any other similar high street shops.

>>It was a good machine with admittedly way too many chips on the board
>>but I guess they used off the shelf components. It was highly
>>expandable not least with slots for extra ROMs and the BASIC was damn
>>fast + it had procedures.
>
>They should have made a Mk2 with more of the circuitry integrated into
>custom chips, to bring the build cost down. We unashamedly copied the
>expandability, and ensured we had a very fast BASIC.

Oh come come. Did the CPC have an composite out, RS423, analogue input port,
and optional econet port? Plus the BBC had proper ports for the printer and
floppy disk, not just el-cheapo Sinclair style motherboard output tracks which
were just asking to be shorted out.

Costs were definately cut on the CPC though admittedly not as much as with
Uncle Clives stuff.

>Of course, that also requires the power to surreptitiously name two of
>the colours like that. It was always a regret there wasn't a colour we
>could plausibly call "Deep Purple".

That would have been a cool name.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <trqoes$32dj1$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:40 on Mon, 6 Feb
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <qbjvthtk60pd4oqgbeortg56uigdeqd3s8@4ax.com>, at 15:39:06 on
>>>> Sun, 5 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 15:11:07 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <bbdnth16gukakrofpdrpls2q0hmv37hj0g@4ax.com>, at 13:10:43 on
>>>>>> Thu, 2 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Feb 2023 16:14:37 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>>>>>>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <trc5i6$hic$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:43:18 on Tue, 31 Jan
>>>>>>>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <6mnhthhhqrsauchfp7r1jdjdp0rpj0llqp@4ax.com>, at
>>>>>>>>>>> 09:29:56 on
>>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 31 Jan 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:43:19 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <tr92ca$3d25i$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:30:34 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mon, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <tr8k1r$3ar6n$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:26:03 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mon, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On iPhone it's "swipe down on the home screen". I don't have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work phone with me right now to try on android.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've tried on two here. Zilch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> How on earth do you do an internet search on your phone? On my home
>>>>>>>>>>>> screen there's a Google search box. I type, or begin to type,
>>>>>>>>>>>> a search
>>>>>>>>>>>> term into it and get results, whether they're apps or internet
>>>>>>>>>>>> results.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I do the above[1], but it never returns any results which are apps
>>>>>>>>>>> installed on my phone, …
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You’ve got a crap phone,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> $600 phones from LG and Samsung. Their marketing departments would be
>>>>>>>>> mortified.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Neither which has a really useful feature which every phone used by the
>>>>>>>> other correspondents here has. <shrug>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Android is highly configurable, both by the manufacturer and the user,
>>>>>>> so it could well be that Roland's phones don't access Drawer mode by
>>>>>>> swiping up on the home screen. Mine doesn't, either, but I obviously do
>>>>>>> know how to access that mode on my phone, and how to find all loaded
>>>>>>> apps. Roland's problem is that, despite thinking he's an expert, he
>>>>>>> doesn't know the basics of how to use an Android phone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My problem is that despite being an expert at using at least three
>>>>>> mobile phone platforms for purposes other than merely finding an
>>>>>> app-in-a-haystack, when I try the relevant "Basics" mentioned here they
>>>>>> don't work. On my phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yup, that just proves you don't know how to use your own phone, or
>>>>> Android phones in general.
>>>>
>>>> Why are you continuing to flog this dead horse argument? I know how to
>>>> use the phones, but I can't access a facility that simply doesn't exist.
>>>>
>>>> And yes, for the umpteenth time, "Swipe up" does *NOTHING* on my phone.
>>>
>>> Why don't you configure it to do something useful then?
>>
>> There's no user-configurable option to achieve that. Odd you should
>> still be under the misapprehension there might be.
>
> As I don't know what vintage model you have, how could I know what normal
> features are actually missing, as opposed to undiscovered by you?
>
>

Roland seems to be deliberately not revealing his phone’s make and model.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/02/2023 16:25, MB wrote:
>> On 02/02/2023 12:46, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> No, this<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetland_dialect>, and in fact the
>>> speaker at the event was Christine de Luca of whom you can see a
>>> recording
>>> of at that URL.  As it says there, “It has a large amount of unique
>>> vocabulary but as there are no standard criteria for distinguishing
>>> languages from dialects, whether or not Shetland dialect is a separate
>>> language from Scots is much debated.”  It’s also the case the the
>>> pronouciation of words common to English and mainland Scots can differ
>>> significantly.  I think Ms de Luca switches seamlessly between English
>>> and
>>> Shetlandic in that video.
>>
>>
>>
>> Relevant to here, didn't some signs need changing in Yorkshire because
>> they could be misunderstood by someone who spoke 'Yorkie' with dangerous
>> consequences
>
> Traffic light or level crossing signs with the word "while" on them.
> Means something else in GOC

And in east Lancashire. The phrase “don’t light the boiler while there’s
water in it” is alleged to have caused at least one fatality.

Sam

--
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Spit the dummy to reply

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Feb 2023 00:26:59 -0000 (UTC)
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> Christ, thats a hack if I've ever heard of one! Presumably you had to design
>>> the video controller to be able to float its pins rather than pull up/down
>> by
>>> default?
>>
>> Sounds like a standard tristate output as used on bus drivers (no, the
>> buses in computers, silly!) e.g. 74LS244 and 74LS245, and a whole load of
>> other chips, but those ones came back to me after nearly 40 years.
>
> Analogue computers all well and good if you have a spot on power supply
> voltage and good quality components, otherwise ... not so much. Unless you
> don't care much about accuracy which I suppose for colour you wouldn't too
> much given the TVs of the day were hardly DTP quality.

It’s nothing like an analogue computer but you’re probably right about the
required colour accuracy.

Sam

--
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Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
> The first user to buy *my* phone, was me. Looking at the photos I took,
> I'm reminded that the first outing was as a teller on Saturday May 8th
> 2021 [second day, after the Thursday vote; PCC and Mayor, on the Friday
> we counted the councillors], as a plane buff you can perhaps identify
> the location:
>
> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Election_2021.jpg

I don’t know the location, but I recognise most of the aircraft. From the
top and then roughly L-R:

SEPECAT Jaguar
Avro Canada CF-100 Canuck
the tail of a Bristol Blenheim or one of that family
Canberra
tail of De Havilland Comet, probably a Comet 4 given the livery
a wing and a propellor blade I don’t recognise
Avro Vulcan
something with the word Concorde on it, but I don’t think it’s a Concorde
De Havilland DH9
Panavia Tornado
there are things I don’t recognise beyond the Vulcan, including something
that looks a bit like a TSR.2
there’s something beyond the Vulcan and Tornado on the right that appears
to have training markings on it - yellow and black checks - could it be a
Jet Provost?
and there’s a missile I don’t recognise at the far left.

Sam

--
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Spit the dummy to reply

On 09.02.23 20:46, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>> The first user to buy *my* phone, was me. Looking at the photos I took,
>> I'm reminded that the first outing was as a teller on Saturday May 8th
>> 2021 [second day, after the Thursday vote; PCC and Mayor, on the Friday
>> we counted the councillors], as a plane buff you can perhaps identify
>> the location:
>>
>> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Election_2021.jpg
>
> I don’t know the location, but I recognise most of the aircraft. From the
> top and then roughly L-R:
>
> SEPECAT Jaguar
> Avro Canada CF-100 Canuck
> the tail of a Bristol Blenheim or one of that family
> Canberra
> tail of De Havilland Comet, probably a Comet 4 given the livery
> a wing and a propellor blade I don’t recognise
> Avro Vulcan
> something with the word Concorde on it, but I don’t think it’s a Concorde

It is a Concode, specifically a test airframe (that did fly), not a
production one.

> De Havilland DH9
> Panavia Tornado
> there are things I don’t recognise beyond the Vulcan, including something
> that looks a bit like a TSR.2

There is a TSR.2 there, so that's probably right.

Robin

Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
> On 09.02.23 20:46, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> The first user to buy *my* phone, was me. Looking at the photos I took,
>>> I'm reminded that the first outing was as a teller on Saturday May 8th
>>> 2021 [second day, after the Thursday vote; PCC and Mayor, on the Friday
>>> we counted the councillors], as a plane buff you can perhaps identify
>>> the location:
>>>
>>> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Election_2021.jpg
>>
>> I don’t know the location, but I recognise most of the aircraft. From the
>> top and then roughly L-R:
>>
>> SEPECAT Jaguar
>> Avro Canada CF-100 Canuck
>> the tail of a Bristol Blenheim or one of that family
>> Canberra
>> tail of De Havilland Comet, probably a Comet 4 given the livery
>> a wing and a propellor blade I don’t recognise
>> Avro Vulcan
>> something with the word Concorde on it, but I don’t think it’s a Concorde
>
> It is a Concode, specifically a test airframe (that did fly), not a
> production one.

Ah, right - 002 or 101, probably, from the livery. Thank you.

>> De Havilland DH9
>> Panavia Tornado
>> there are things I don’t recognise beyond the Vulcan, including something
>> that looks a bit like a TSR.2
>
> There is a TSR.2 there, so that's probably right.

OK, I think I know the venue, then!

Sam

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