On 08.02.23 17:32, MB wrote:
> On 03/02/2023 11:46, Bob wrote:
>> I just asked a Swedish colleauge, and he tells me he can understand
>> Norwegian without any difficulty, so that would suggest they are
>> mutually understandable.
>
>
> Probably depends on the person, you often hear people claiming they
> cannot understand a particular English accent whilst others will have no
> problem.
>
> I wrote just now that people around Aberdeen were surprised that I could
> understand them.

I also asked the same guy about this sort of thing. He is from Skåne,
and suggested that people from Stockholm have quite a hard time with
that accent, indeed it is often easier for him to communicate with
someone from Oslo than from Stockholm.

Robin

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 17:16:33 +0000
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>On 08/02/2023 16:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> The Admiralty?
>
>
>
>South East England around London.
>
>
>https://twitter.com/MikeLingPilot/status/1260156647999184897/photo/1

Probably there is a real purpose in the naming in that the SE has by far
and away the highest level of civil air traffic in the UK and you don't want
to mix your fighter jet in with that.

On 08.02.23 16:55, MB wrote:
> On 01/02/2023 10:49, Bob wrote:
>> There are two main factors that led to the survival and resurgance of
>> English. One is that the Norman dialect of French was not the prestige
>> Parisian dialect, so although the nobility initially spoke "French", it
>> was not the prestige form of the language. The other aspect is that as
>> is often the case with the higher echelons of society, the duties of
>> childcare were handed off to hired help, who tended to be English
>> speaking, so the subsequent generations were often brought up with
>> English as their first language, Norman French second, and then had to
>> learn "proper" French if they wanted to be respecable.  In this
>> environment, the Norman French was squeezed out, and (by then Middle)
>> English came to dominate.
>
>
>
> Don't forget that the effect of the Danelaw must have lasted a long time
> - it still has a big influence on the English language.

Sure, there are tons of really common English words from Norse.

they, them, their come from Norse, as well as "hi" as a greeting and
"ta" for expressing thanks, and sky (the Anglo Saxon for sky became
"heaven")

The really obvious ones are sk- words, especially where there are
related sh- words:
shirt/skirt
shuttle/skuttle
scat/shat
scare/share (the relation is a little less obvious, but to make things
go in different or directions is the connection)
score/shore (the root is to mark the edge: edge of the water, mark a
line with a knife)
skiff/ship (and hence skipper, the person in charge of a ship, as
opposed to shipper, a person who moves things by ship)

West Germanic (the root of Anglo Saxon) had a sk to sh sound change that
Norse did not when they diverged from proto-germanic.

Robin

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 16:07:08 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 01/02/2023 16:26, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> Something that amuses me is the scottish governments promotion of gaelic
>> as a national language whereas in fact it was a dialect of welsh spoken in the
>> central belt before scots supplanted it. Gaelic was spoken in the glens and
>> western isles.
>
>
>
>There was a lot of resistance to it in the Northern Isles and Caithness
>
>I hate to think how much was spent, they claimed to only change road
>signs that were "worn out" but in fact they changed them all. There
>were lots of teams of people going around.
>
Tourist signs (the brown ones) would be changed when it was desired to
modify the information on them rather than when worn out or incorrect.
Other signs might sometimes be changed in batches to avoid revisits
later.

>I know lots of Gaelic speakers but despite living here for years, I have
>never heard anyone speaking Gaelic on the street which quite different
>from Wales. But they throw more money at it.
>
I was out in my front garden a few years back and 300 miles south of
the border when I realised the two ladies walking past were having a
conversation in Gaelic. Some of the stats only concern "Gaelic
speaking" areas while ignoring more disparate speakers.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 18:35:16 +0100, Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:

>On 08.02.23 16:55, MB wrote:
>> On 01/02/2023 10:49, Bob wrote:
>>> There are two main factors that led to the survival and resurgance of
>>> English. One is that the Norman dialect of French was not the prestige
>>> Parisian dialect, so although the nobility initially spoke "French", it
>>> was not the prestige form of the language. The other aspect is that as
>>> is often the case with the higher echelons of society, the duties of
>>> childcare were handed off to hired help, who tended to be English
>>> speaking, so the subsequent generations were often brought up with
>>> English as their first language, Norman French second, and then had to
>>> learn "proper" French if they wanted to be respecable.  In this
>>> environment, the Norman French was squeezed out, and (by then Middle)
>>> English came to dominate.
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't forget that the effect of the Danelaw must have lasted a long time
>> - it still has a big influence on the English language.
>
>Sure, there are tons of really common English words from Norse.
>
>they, them, their come from Norse, as well as "hi" as a greeting and
>"ta" for expressing thanks,
>
That might also be a contraction of the Gaelic "tapadh leat".

>and sky (the Anglo Saxon for sky became "heaven")
<snip>

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 17:07:41 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 16:41:51 +0000
>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>On 08/02/2023 15:58, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> Part of the kingdom of northumbria. England didn't exist yet.
>>
>>Did Scotland?
>
>Don't know TBH. I do know the scottish kings were de facto only kings of the
>lowlands for a long time because the powerful clans in the glens and the
>isles did pretty much what they liked.
>
Scotland from 843.
Northumbria to 954.
England either 927 or "definitely" by 953.
Says Wonkypaedia.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 16:10:01 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 01/02/2023 19:17, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> The point missed by those whose historical knowledge doesn't go back
>> far enough is that "Southern Ireland" is not just a geographical term
>> with proper relevant use but also a politically sensitive one for a UK
>> entity which existed only in 1922 before becoming the Irish Free
>> State. See also Malvinas versus Falkand Islands.
>
>Good way to wind them up, they often like to talk as if Northern Ireland
>is part of their country. Just as the people in the West Falklands like
>to talk of the Malvinas.
>
It doesn't wind them up generally; it makes the person describing the
Republic as "Southern Ireland" appear somewhat misinformed and out of
date, especially when they are clearly referring to the East, West or
the far North of the Republic. In current times, "Malvinas" has the
sort of loading that "Southern Ireland" would have had in the 1920s.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 16:02:23 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 15:53:30 +0000
>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>On 01/02/2023 10:20, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> I’m aware that many, even most, residents of England know the difference
>>> between England and the UK; it’s the attitude that Muttley exemplifies that
>>
>>> really shouldn’t be left unchallenged.
>>
>>
>>
>>I keep waiting to hear what the nationalists plan to with the "Outdoor
>>Capital of the UK" in the (hopefully unlikely) event of partition.
>>Fortunately looking more and more unlikely.
>>
>>I am just hoping that the Lake District or Snowdonia is ready to jump in
>>and take over the brand if it did happen - first come first served!
>
>Snowdonia is going to be renamed by the well worth the money and not at all
>ideological driven bullshit merchant Welsh Assembly to Yr Wyddf apparently.
>Or at least I assume thats the name unless someone sneezed just when it was
>being announced.
>
Yr Wyddfa, the name it already has; it isn't a renaming. Just like
many places on OS maps for Wales and Scotland which might seem to be
renamings but are usually corrections of Victorian surveyors'
cock-ups, e.g. Bod an Deamhain, incorrectly translated as the Devil's
Point.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 16:34:38 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 05/02/2023 15:27, Roland Perry wrote:
>> By beef is much more with names like Demon's successor "Thus", and as I
>> mentioned earlier apps like "Bolt" and "Bright".
>
>
>Was Thus originally Scottish Telecom?
>
Yes. The name changed in 1999.

>We had them as site sharers and it
>was always difficult to refer to the company name in conversation.
>

On 08/02/2023 16:00, Adrian wrote:
> In message <ts0gbi$7tn1$3@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes
>> On 01/02/2023 09:17, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> The story about the anglo saxons ethnic cleansing local populations and
>>> pushing them to the margins is a convenient myth for various
>>> nationalists.
>>> Many DNA surveys have shown that most people in england have majority
>>> celtic
>>> blood in them. Its faily clear the saxons just like the normans
>>> invaded, took
>>> over and interbred with the locals. They didn't kill them all or turn
>>> them
>>> into refugees.
>>
>>
>>
>> A well known TV Historian from the Borders was on a TV programme using
>> DNA.  He expected to be 100% Scottish but was surprised to find a high
>> proportion of Anglo-Saxon.  He was told that many people were brought
>> in from the South of England to work in the area and of course much of
>> the South of Scotland was part of England for a long time.
>
> And some might argue that parts of Northern England were Scottish at
> times (by occupation if nothing else).
>

There are people claiming the Borders should be regarded as a separate
country, neither England or Scotland.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 08/02/2023 16:25, MB wrote:
> On 02/02/2023 12:46, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> No, this<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetland_dialect>, and in fact the
>> speaker at the event was Christine de Luca of whom you can see a
>> recording
>> of at that URL.  As it says there, “It has a large amount of unique
>> vocabulary but as there are no standard criteria for distinguishing
>> languages from dialects, whether or not Shetland dialect is a separate
>> language from Scots is much debated.”  It’s also the case the the
>> pronouciation of words common to English and mainland Scots can differ
>> significantly.  I think Ms de Luca switches seamlessly between English
>> and
>> Shetlandic in that video.
>
>
>
> Relevant to here, didn't some signs need changing in Yorkshire because
> they could be misunderstood by someone who spoke 'Yorkie' with dangerous
> consequences

Traffic light or level crossing signs with the word "while" on them.
Means something else in GOC
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/02/2023 16:00, Adrian wrote:
>> In message <ts0gbi$7tn1$3@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes
>>> On 01/02/2023 09:17, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> The story about the anglo saxons ethnic cleansing local populations and
>>>> pushing them to the margins is a convenient myth for various
>>>> nationalists.
>>>> Many DNA surveys have shown that most people in england have majority
>>>> celtic
>>>> blood in them. Its faily clear the saxons just like the normans
>>>> invaded, took
>>>> over and interbred with the locals. They didn't kill them all or turn
>>>> them
>>>> into refugees.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A well known TV Historian from the Borders was on a TV programme using
>>> DNA.  He expected to be 100% Scottish but was surprised to find a high
>>> proportion of Anglo-Saxon.  He was told that many people were brought
>>> in from the South of England to work in the area and of course much of
>>> the South of Scotland was part of England for a long time.
>>
>> And some might argue that parts of Northern England were Scottish at
>> times (by occupation if nothing else).
>>
>
> There are people claiming the Borders should be regarded as a separate
> country, neither England or Scotland.
>

Berwick upon Tweed feels neither part of England nor Scotland. But that
could possibly said of many places. Shetland isn’t really Scotland.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 18:43:14 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 08/02/2023 16:00, Adrian wrote:
>> In message <ts0gbi$7tn1$3@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes
>>> On 01/02/2023 09:17, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> The story about the anglo saxons ethnic cleansing local populations and
>>>> pushing them to the margins is a convenient myth for various
>>>> nationalists.
>>>> Many DNA surveys have shown that most people in england have majority
>>>> celtic
>>>> blood in them. Its faily clear the saxons just like the normans
>>>> invaded, took
>>>> over and interbred with the locals. They didn't kill them all or turn
>>>> them
>>>> into refugees.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A well known TV Historian from the Borders was on a TV programme using
>>> DNA.  He expected to be 100% Scottish but was surprised to find a high
>>> proportion of Anglo-Saxon.  He was told that many people were brought
>>> in from the South of England to work in the area and of course much of
>>> the South of Scotland was part of England for a long time.
>>
>> And some might argue that parts of Northern England were Scottish at
>> times (by occupation if nothing else).
>>
>
>There are people claiming the Borders should be regarded as a separate
>country, neither England or Scotland.
>
You mean nobody wants them?
;-)

On 08/02/2023 17:16, MB wrote:
> On 08/02/2023 16:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> The Admiralty?
>
>
>
> South East England around London.
>
>
> https://twitter.com/MikeLingPilot/status/1260156647999184897/photo/1
>
>
>

Great! Must send it to my sister, ex ATC
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 08/02/2023 18:51, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 18:43:14 +0000, Graeme Wall
> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 08/02/2023 16:00, Adrian wrote:
>>> In message <ts0gbi$7tn1$3@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes
>>>> On 01/02/2023 09:17, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> The story about the anglo saxons ethnic cleansing local populations and
>>>>> pushing them to the margins is a convenient myth for various
>>>>> nationalists.
>>>>> Many DNA surveys have shown that most people in england have majority
>>>>> celtic
>>>>> blood in them. Its faily clear the saxons just like the normans
>>>>> invaded, took
>>>>> over and interbred with the locals. They didn't kill them all or turn
>>>>> them
>>>>> into refugees.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A well known TV Historian from the Borders was on a TV programme using
>>>> DNA.  He expected to be 100% Scottish but was surprised to find a high
>>>> proportion of Anglo-Saxon.  He was told that many people were brought
>>>> in from the South of England to work in the area and of course much of
>>>> the South of Scotland was part of England for a long time.
>>>
>>> And some might argue that parts of Northern England were Scottish at
>>> times (by occupation if nothing else).
>>>
>>
>> There are people claiming the Borders should be regarded as a separate
>> country, neither England or Scotland.
>>
> You mean nobody wants them?
> ;-)

I couldn't possibly comment!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 08.02.23 18:58, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 18:35:16 +0100, Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>
>> On 08.02.23 16:55, MB wrote:
>>> On 01/02/2023 10:49, Bob wrote:
>>>> There are two main factors that led to the survival and resurgance of
>>>> English. One is that the Norman dialect of French was not the prestige
>>>> Parisian dialect, so although the nobility initially spoke "French", it
>>>> was not the prestige form of the language. The other aspect is that as
>>>> is often the case with the higher echelons of society, the duties of
>>>> childcare were handed off to hired help, who tended to be English
>>>> speaking, so the subsequent generations were often brought up with
>>>> English as their first language, Norman French second, and then had to
>>>> learn "proper" French if they wanted to be respecable.  In this
>>>> environment, the Norman French was squeezed out, and (by then Middle)
>>>> English came to dominate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't forget that the effect of the Danelaw must have lasted a long time
>>> - it still has a big influence on the English language.
>>
>> Sure, there are tons of really common English words from Norse.
>>
>> they, them, their come from Norse, as well as "hi" as a greeting and
>> "ta" for expressing thanks,
>>
> That might also be a contraction of the Gaelic "tapadh leat".

The loss of a single end of word consonant (which is something that is
not unusual in words anyway) to go from "tak" to "ta" makes the norse
source seem rather more plausible than losing a whole word.

Robin

On 08/02/2023 17:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
> I was out in my front garden a few years back and 300 miles south of
> the border when I realised the two ladies walking past were having a
> conversation in Gaelic. Some of the stats only concern "Gaelic
> speaking" areas while ignoring more disparate speakers.

I was always told that when Radio nan Gaidheal started covering Central
Scotland, that there were more Gaelic speakers there than the Western Isles.

I never trust the figures, I am sure that many people claim that they
are a Gaelic speaker when they only just about manage Slàinte mhath.

On 08/02/2023 18:48, Tweed wrote:
> Berwick upon Tweed feels neither part of England nor Scotland. But that
> could possibly said of many places. Shetland isn’t really Scotland.

And Orkney to a lesser extent.

Who was it who said that Westminster does not understand the Highlands
but Edinburgh hates the Highlands. Though here in the Highlands many
hate Inverness!

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 22:07:01 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 08/02/2023 17:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> I was out in my front garden a few years back and 300 miles south of
>> the border when I realised the two ladies walking past were having a
>> conversation in Gaelic. Some of the stats only concern "Gaelic
>> speaking" areas while ignoring more disparate speakers.
>
>
>I was always told that when Radio nan Gaidheal started covering Central
>Scotland, that there were more Gaelic speakers there than the Western Isles.
>
There was (and is) a lot of gravitation from the Highlands (my mother)
and Islands (her sister in law) to the Central Belt. You had and still
have people (two of my cousins) going the other way.

>I never trust the figures, I am sure that many people claim that they
>are a Gaelic speaker when they only just about manage Slàinte mhath.
>
There are parts of England where the natives' English-speaking
abilities are somewhat dodgy.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 22:08:47 +0100, Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:

>On 08.02.23 18:58, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 18:35:16 +0100, Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08.02.23 16:55, MB wrote:
>>>> On 01/02/2023 10:49, Bob wrote:
>>>>> There are two main factors that led to the survival and resurgance of
>>>>> English. One is that the Norman dialect of French was not the prestige
>>>>> Parisian dialect, so although the nobility initially spoke "French", it
>>>>> was not the prestige form of the language. The other aspect is that as
>>>>> is often the case with the higher echelons of society, the duties of
>>>>> childcare were handed off to hired help, who tended to be English
>>>>> speaking, so the subsequent generations were often brought up with
>>>>> English as their first language, Norman French second, and then had to
>>>>> learn "proper" French if they wanted to be respecable.  In this
>>>>> environment, the Norman French was squeezed out, and (by then Middle)
>>>>> English came to dominate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't forget that the effect of the Danelaw must have lasted a long time
>>>> - it still has a big influence on the English language.
>>>
>>> Sure, there are tons of really common English words from Norse.
>>>
>>> they, them, their come from Norse, as well as "hi" as a greeting and
>>> "ta" for expressing thanks,
>>>
>> That might also be a contraction of the Gaelic "tapadh leat".
>
>The loss of a single end of word consonant (which is something that is
>not unusual in words anyway) to go from "tak" to "ta" makes the norse
>source seem rather more plausible than losing a whole word.
>
A better comparison for "tapadh leat/leibh" might be losing "you" from
"thank you" and ending up with "thanks", i.e. you have lost the
object/target of the action.
Once you have reduced to "tapaidh", it might be easy to later lose the
"p" ("dh" being already silent/unvoiced) coming from the west with a
mutual loss of the end of tack/takk coming from the east.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 22:14:14 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 08/02/2023 18:48, Tweed wrote:
>> Berwick upon Tweed feels neither part of England nor Scotland. But that
>> could possibly said of many places. Shetland isn’t really Scotland.
>
>
>And Orkney to a lesser extent.
>
>Who was it who said that Westminster does not understand the Highlands
>but Edinburgh hates the Highlands. Though here in the Highlands many
>hate Inverness!
>
Some of the Highlands on the east side aren't Invernessshire rather
than bits of Morayshire which have been annexed by stealth since the
19th century thus with loyalty/influence lying more in the direction
of e.g. Elgin.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 13:33:52 +0000
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <trqidt$31cbi$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:48:45 on Mon, 6 Feb
>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> Re Amstrad - you got what you paid for. Which generally wasn't much in either
>>> case.
>>
>> The main thing there was a lack of any plausible alternatives. In most
>
> Oh I dunno, dixons and curries did some cheap own brand crap with japanesy
> sounding names (which I can't remember) IIRC.
>
>> As a bit of background, at the time I was working with an outfit that
>> one might call the "posh man's Maplin", and as well as selling a range
>
> Tandy?
>
>> I only entertained it as a project because I quite familiar with the
>> dogs dinner that only its mother should love [and they did], known as
>> the BBC Micro, and thought "we can do better than that".
>
> I've noticed you're a bit biased against the BBC. It was a good machine with
> admittedly way too many chips on the board but I guess they used off the
> shelf components. It was highly expandable not least with slots for extra
> ROMs and the BASIC was damn fast + it had procedures.
>
>> Some of the features which made it better than the competition were
>> incredibly cheap to manufacture. The 27 colours instead of 16 (or 8 in
>> normal and bright in most instances) cost just six resistors.
>>
>> How did that work? Well, you have an output from the video controller
>> that most designers perceived as ON or OFF, and hence RGB with two
>> states each is 2^3 or eight.
>>
>> But we added FLOAT, with a pair of resistors between 5v and ground to
>> hold the level half-way (but easily over-powered by a solid 0v or 5v
>> from the chip). So three states for each of RGB, and hence 3^3 = 27
>> colours.
>
> Christ, thats a hack if I've ever heard of one! Presumably you had to design
> the video controller to be able to float its pins rather than pull up/down by
> default?

Sounds like a standard tristate output as used on bus drivers (no, the
buses in computers, silly!) e.g. 74LS244 and 74LS245, and a whole load of
other chips, but those ones came back to me after nearly 40 years.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <trqoes$32dj1$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:40 on Mon, 6 Feb
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <qbjvthtk60pd4oqgbeortg56uigdeqd3s8@4ax.com>, at 15:39:06 on
>> Sun, 5 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 15:11:07 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <bbdnth16gukakrofpdrpls2q0hmv37hj0g@4ax.com>, at 13:10:43 on
>>>> Thu, 2 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 1 Feb 2023 16:14:37 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>>>>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <trc5i6$hic$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:43:18 on Tue, 31 Jan
>>>>>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <6mnhthhhqrsauchfp7r1jdjdp0rpj0llqp@4ax.com>, at
>>>>>>>>>09:29:56 on
>>>>>>>>> Tue, 31 Jan 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:43:19 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <tr92ca$3d25i$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:30:34 on
>>>>>>>>>>>Mon, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <tr8k1r$3ar6n$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:26:03 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mon, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On iPhone it's "swipe down on the home screen". I don't have
>>>>>>>>>>>> work phone with me right now to try on android.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've tried on two here. Zilch.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How on earth do you do an internet search on your phone? On my home
>>>>>>>>>> screen there's a Google search box. I type, or begin to type,
>>>>>>>>>>a search
>>>>>>>>>> term into it and get results, whether they're apps or internet
>>>>>>>>>> results.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do the above[1], but it never returns any results which are apps
>>>>>>>>> installed on my phone, …
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You’ve got a crap phone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> $600 phones from LG and Samsung. Their marketing departments would be
>>>>>>> mortified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neither which has a really useful feature which every phone used by the
>>>>>> other correspondents here has. <shrug>
>>>>>
>>>>> Android is highly configurable, both by the manufacturer and the user,
>>>>> so it could well be that Roland's phones don't access Drawer mode by
>>>>> swiping up on the home screen. Mine doesn't, either, but I obviously do
>>>>> know how to access that mode on my phone, and how to find all loaded
>>>>> apps. Roland's problem is that, despite thinking he's an expert, he
>>>>> doesn't know the basics of how to use an Android phone.
>>>>
>>>> My problem is that despite being an expert at using at least three
>>>> mobile phone platforms for purposes other than merely finding an
>>>> app-in-a-haystack, when I try the relevant "Basics" mentioned here they
>>>> don't work. On my phone.
>>>
>>> Yup, that just proves you don't know how to use your own phone, or
>>> Android phones in general.
>>
>> Why are you continuing to flog this dead horse argument? I know how to
>> use the phones, but I can't access a facility that simply doesn't exist.
>>
>> And yes, for the umpteenth time, "Swipe up" does *NOTHING* on my phone.
>
>Why don't you configure it to do something useful then?

There's no user-configurable option to achieve that. Odd you should
still be under the misapprehension there might be.
--
Roland Perry

In message <lrn4uhl5omojh1f07s2moq4is0a42jquma@4ax.com>, at 14:31:57 on
Tue, 7 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 19:17:44 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <qbjvthtk60pd4oqgbeortg56uigdeqd3s8@4ax.com>, at 15:39:06 on
>>> Sun, 5 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 15:11:07 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <bbdnth16gukakrofpdrpls2q0hmv37hj0g@4ax.com>, at 13:10:43 on
>>>>> Thu, 2 Feb 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Feb 2023 16:14:37 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>>>>>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <trc5i6$hic$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:43:18 on Tue, 31 Jan
>>>>>>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <6mnhthhhqrsauchfp7r1jdjdp0rpj0llqp@4ax.com>, at
>>>>>>>>>>09:29:56 on
>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 31 Jan 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:43:19 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <tr92ca$3d25i$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:30:34 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <tr8k1r$3ar6n$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:26:03 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mon, 30 Jan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On iPhone it's "swipe down on the home screen". I don't have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work phone with me right now to try on android.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've tried on two here. Zilch.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How on earth do you do an internet search on your phone? On my home
>>>>>>>>>>> screen there's a Google search box. I type, or begin to
>>>>>>>>>>>type, a search
>>>>>>>>>>> term into it and get results, whether they're apps or internet
>>>>>>>>>>> results.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I do the above[1], but it never returns any results which are apps
>>>>>>>>>> installed on my phone, …
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You’ve got a crap phone,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> $600 phones from LG and Samsung. Their marketing departments would be
>>>>>>>> mortified.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neither which has a really useful feature which every phone used by the
>>>>>>> other correspondents here has. <shrug>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Android is highly configurable, both by the manufacturer and the user,
>>>>>> so it could well be that Roland's phones don't access Drawer mode by
>>>>>> swiping up on the home screen. Mine doesn't, either, but I obviously do
>>>>>> know how to access that mode on my phone, and how to find all loaded
>>>>>> apps. Roland's problem is that, despite thinking he's an expert, he
>>>>>> doesn't know the basics of how to use an Android phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> My problem is that despite being an expert at using at least three
>>>>> mobile phone platforms for purposes other than merely finding an
>>>>> app-in-a-haystack, when I try the relevant "Basics" mentioned here they
>>>>> don't work. On my phone.
>>>>
>>>> Yup, that just proves you don't know how to use your own phone, or
>>>> Android phones in general.
>>>
>>> Why are you continuing to flog this dead horse argument? I know how to
>>> use the phones, but I can't access a facility that simply doesn't exist.
>>>
>>> And yes, for the umpteenth time, "Swipe up" does *NOTHING* on my phone.
>>>
>>
>>I can’t remember now, but did you tell us the manufacturer and model
>>number?
>
>He's mentioned a couple of manufacturers' names, but not the model,
>year of purchase (not that Roland would know when the first user first
>purchased his elderly phones)

The first user to buy *my* phone, was me. Looking at the photos I took,
I'm reminded that the first outing was as a teller on Saturday May 8th
2021 [second day, after the Thursday vote; PCC and Mayor, on the Friday
we counted the councillors], as a plane buff you can perhaps identify
the location:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Election_2021.jpg

That's closest we were allowed to get to the exhibits, because the venue
was officially closed because of Covid.

The first user to buy an example of the model, is a matter of public
record.

>or specification (other than the small 1.65mp screen size).

Where did that come from? Out of the red mist that so often descends,
perhaps. Or maybe just plucked from your arse. It's a 5.7", 4.2mp
screen. Very slightly smaller, but twice as many pixels, as the previous
model I had.

>It's always amusing that Roland can't see the connection between his
>boasts of buying ancient, used, low spec, very cheap phones

Lies, and more lies. Every single description there is a lie.

>and his subsequent problems

It's not *that* much of a problem, just a side effect of me having so
many apps, with often stupid names, that it's sometimes hard to find the
one you want six months after installing it.

>with using ancient, low spec phones, that have probably been configured
>by the earlier users in ways he can't understand.

And another pack of lies. Are you *really* that ignorant of the concept
of "factory reset", even if that was necessary (which in this case it
wouldn't be, but as a security measure always would be on a pre-owned
phone). And in fact so contemptuous of the retail trade that you think
they'd even consider selling pre-owned phones that weren't in that
state. But as this is a first-user phone, the matter doesn't arise.

>I'm also amused that someone who hardly travels anywhere has a huge
>collection of travel apps on his phone.

You are easily amused.

There's a fundamental contradiction here, between your self-confessed
obsession for the new-and-shiny, and dismissing why someone might want
to keep up with the latest technology, despite not being an immediate
user of the particular service.

Rather than start more hares running, the most recent non-rail example
I've been posting about is the Voi electric bike scheme in Cambridge.

That's of course a "somewhere" I travel a lot. But I'm most unlikely to
want to hire one myself. Unlike the short-lived dockless pushbike scheme
which came before that, where I *did* hire one just to see what it was
like (it was shit, not just the app for locating the nearest available
one, and but the vehicle itself).

Last week in Cambridge I saw (again) the grocery delivery drones, and my
wife commented that it was just the sort of thing I'd use if it was
available closer to home. Actually, I might in such circumstances use it
just once, to see how well it worked in practice; but for a regular
weekly shop it's a non-starter. Nor do I want to start doing twice-daily
shops. That's also got a silly name, and didn't you fail to get the 1701
reference?
--
Roland Perry

On 08/02/2023 23:46, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 22:07:01 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> On 08/02/2023 17:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> I was out in my front garden a few years back and 300 miles south of
>>> the border when I realised the two ladies walking past were having a
>>> conversation in Gaelic. Some of the stats only concern "Gaelic
>>> speaking" areas while ignoring more disparate speakers.
>>
>>
>> I was always told that when Radio nan Gaidheal started covering Central
>> Scotland, that there were more Gaelic speakers there than the Western Isles.
>>
> There was (and is) a lot of gravitation from the Highlands (my mother)
> and Islands (her sister in law) to the Central Belt. You had and still
> have people (two of my cousins) going the other way.
>
>> I never trust the figures, I am sure that many people claim that they
>> are a Gaelic speaker when they only just about manage Slàinte mhath.
>>
> There are parts of England where the natives' English-speaking
> abilities are somewhat dodgy.

Downing Street for instance.
--
Graeme Wall
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