On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 11:09:07 +0100, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:

>Am 23.03.2023 um 23:36 schrieb Recliner:
>> On Thu, 23 Mar 2023 18:39:13 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <tv9ch1$3g692$5@dont-email.me>, at 10:28:49 on Mon, 20 Mar
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 20/03/2023 08:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <tsv671$mkb6$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:07:13 on Mon, 20 Feb
>>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <ts2b57$ke9h$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:33:43 on Thu, 9 Feb
>>>>>>>> 2023, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2023 at 8:33:11 AM EET, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In message <trqoes$32dj1$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:40 on Mon, 6 Feb
>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you continuing to flog this dead horse argument? I
>>>>>>>>>>>> how to use the phones, but I can't access a facility that
>>>>>>>>>>>> simply doesn't exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And yes, for the umpteenth time, "Swipe up" does *NOTHING* on my
>>>>>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you configure it to do something useful then?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There's no user-configurable option to achieve that. Odd you should
>>>>>>>>>> still be under the misapprehension there might be.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This, at least, might well be true, given how ancient Roland's
>>>>>>>>> phones are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pinned down a week ago (but I'm still catching up on some old threads)
>>>>>>>> as dating to May 2021.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Android didn't really get system-wide gesture support until
>>>>>>>>> Android 9 (wherein it was half-baked and awful), and didn't get
>>>>>>>>> *good* system-wide gesture support until Android 10, at which
>>>>>>>>> point they'd ditched what they did in v9 and essentially just
>>>>>>>>> copied what Samsung had been doing for a few years. Since then,
>>>>>>>>> it's been pretty much unchanged. (Samsung were the first to drop
>>>>>>>>> the dedicated apps/home/back buttons to move to "all screen"
>>>>>>>>> phones, and introduced gesture support at around the same time
>>>>>>>>> as part of the 'replacement' of physical buttons.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My wife's new Moto phone (the previous approx two year old one expired
>>>>>>>> with a duff battery, but also broken screen), and which only arrived
>>>>>>>> since this subthread thread began, has dropped those three buttons and
>>>>>>>> she *hates* it. Of course, it has the swipe-up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given that the Android 6 generation (Samsung Galaxy S7 being an
>>>>>>>>> example) were  the last to have physical buttons, and the all-glass
>>>>>>>>> generation (Galaxy S8 on)  launched with Android 7, it's quite
>>>>>>>>> likely even Roland's Samsung is too old to  have gesture support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Samsung is my work phone, so not my problem. It dates to November
>>>>>>>> 2021. However I literally only have two third party apps (and only use
>>>>>>>> three or four bundled ones like Phone), so searching for them isn't an
>>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However, search for an app very much is a facility that does exist,
>>>>>>>>> even in
>>>>>>>>> Android 6, as I've demonstrated elsewhere. Roland just needs to find
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> manual for his phone to learn how to use it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The facility you mentioned iirc is a work-around, where you re-run a
>>>>>>>> query to the cloud-based app-store and it says "In the list of choices
>>>>>>>> I'm offering you now, I have a note here which says you should have
>>>>>>>> <<this one>> already installed. Of course, the app may have been
>>>>>>>> uninstalled locally. Anyway, it then takes you to the page in the app
>>>>>>>> store, where there's an "Open" button.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's more of a puzzle is why the manual which came with the phone
>>>>>>>> would have hints-and-tips (or even anything at all) in it, regarding use
>>>>>>>> of the app-store. Or even gestures. Part of the problem being these are
>>>>>>>> a feature of Android, and morph all the time, so printing something to
>>>>>>>> ship with the phone is a hostage to fortune.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even something as simple as the app-store changes. I've just noticed
>>>>>>>> that it no longer has (nor can I find by poking around) a collection of
>>>>>>>> "My Apps", which I think used to be sorted roughly in reverse
>>>>>>>> chronological order of first installation, and one way to remind oneself
>>>>>>>> of a recently forgotten name; also to assist restoring those apps which
>>>>>>>> "new phone swap" software inevitably loses track of several.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You’ve yet to tell us the make and model of your apparently un searchable
>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [Still playing catch-up]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not relevant. All you need to know is it's a well known brand, not
>>>>>> a Samsung, had a launch price of £650[1], and is running Android 7.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, it's now searchable because I found an App which does that.
>>>>>> Although that requires one to remember the stupid marketing name of the
>>>>>> gadget whose app you are looking for. (eg "Starship" for the CoOp's
>>>>>> robot home delivery service)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] Apparently some people think the only important thing about a phone
>>>>>>     is the reflected glory, rather than its specification.
>>>>>
>>>>> That person being you.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, good point. Roland keeps boasting of the high original launch price of
>>>> his ancient phone, but is remarkably coy about its specification.
>>>
>>> Which part interests you... the 32GB storage, 4GB RAM, the dual 13MP
>>> camera or the 4MP screen. And why?
>>
>> I'm guessing it's something like the Huawei Honor 7x, which launched in late 2017 with Android 7, later updatable to
>> Android 8. The entry level model had 4GB RAM and 32GB storage. The 5.93" screen is 2160x1080, or 2.3mp.
>
>Also, the Chinese makes Huawei/Honor and Xiaome are known to have
>Andriod implementations that stay far away from the standard, both in UI
>and partly also technically.

I assume they have subsequently lost access to anything other than basic open source Android (so none of the other
Google stuff)?

Am 25.03.2023 um 13:29 schrieb Recliner:
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 11:09:07 +0100, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 23.03.2023 um 23:36 schrieb Recliner:

>>> I'm guessing it's something like the Huawei Honor 7x, which launched in late 2017 with Android 7, later updatable to
>>> Android 8. The entry level model had 4GB RAM and 32GB storage. The 5.93" screen is 2160x1080, or 2.3mp.
>>
>> Also, the Chinese makes Huawei/Honor and Xiaome are known to have
>> Andriod implementations that stay far away from the standard, both in UI
>> and partly also technically.
>
> I assume they have subsequently lost access to anything other than basic open source Android (so none of the other
> Google stuff)?

New Huwei/Honor phones lost access to Google stuff but the existing
license for older phones was not revoked. My son's old Honor can still
access the play store (as long as it still boots).

Rolf 'now most of the family is on Xiaome/Redmi'

In message <tvicn5$19r82$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:27:17 on Thu, 23 Mar
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tv9ch1$3g692$5@dont-email.me>, at 10:28:49 on Mon, 20 Mar
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 20/03/2023 08:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <tsv671$mkb6$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:07:13 on Mon, 20 Feb
>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <ts2b57$ke9h$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:33:43 on Thu, 9 Feb
>>>>>>> 2023, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2023 at 8:33:11 AM EET, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In message <trqoes$32dj1$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:40 on Mon, 6 Feb
>>>>>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you continuing to flog this dead horse argument? I
>>>>>>>>>>> how to use the phones, but I can't access a facility that
>>>>>>>>>>> simply doesn't exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And yes, for the umpteenth time, "Swipe up" does *NOTHING* on my
>>>>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you configure it to do something useful then?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's no user-configurable option to achieve that. Odd you should
>>>>>>>>> still be under the misapprehension there might be.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This, at least, might well be true, given how ancient Roland's
>>>>>>>> phones are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pinned down a week ago (but I'm still catching up on some old threads)
>>>>>>> as dating to May 2021.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Android didn't really get system-wide gesture support until
>>>>>>>> Android 9 (wherein it was half-baked and awful), and didn't get
>>>>>>>> *good* system-wide gesture support until Android 10, at which
>>>>>>>> point they'd ditched what they did in v9 and essentially just
>>>>>>>> copied what Samsung had been doing for a few years. Since then,
>>>>>>>> it's been pretty much unchanged. (Samsung were the first to drop
>>>>>>>> the dedicated apps/home/back buttons to move to "all screen"
>>>>>>>> phones, and introduced gesture support at around the same time
>>>>>>>> as part of the 'replacement' of physical buttons.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My wife's new Moto phone (the previous approx two year old one expired
>>>>>>> with a duff battery, but also broken screen), and which only arrived
>>>>>>> since this subthread thread began, has dropped those three buttons and
>>>>>>> she *hates* it. Of course, it has the swipe-up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given that the Android 6 generation (Samsung Galaxy S7 being an
>>>>>>>> example) were  the last to have physical buttons, and the all-glass
>>>>>>>> generation (Galaxy S8 on)  launched with Android 7, it's quite
>>>>>>>> likely even Roland's Samsung is too old to  have gesture support.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Samsung is my work phone, so not my problem. It dates to November
>>>>>>> 2021. However I literally only have two third party apps (and only use
>>>>>>> three or four bundled ones like Phone), so searching for them isn't an
>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, search for an app very much is a facility that does
>>>>>>>> even in Android 6, as I've demonstrated elsewhere. Roland
>>>>>>>>just needs to find the manual for his phone to learn how to use it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The facility you mentioned iirc is a work-around, where you re-run a
>>>>>>> query to the cloud-based app-store and it says "In the list of choices
>>>>>>> I'm offering you now, I have a note here which says you should have
>>>>>>> <<this one>> already installed. Of course, the app may have been
>>>>>>> uninstalled locally. Anyway, it then takes you to the page in the app
>>>>>>> store, where there's an "Open" button.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's more of a puzzle is why the manual which came with the phone
>>>>>>> would have hints-and-tips (or even anything at all) in it, regarding use
>>>>>>> of the app-store. Or even gestures. Part of the problem being these are
>>>>>>> a feature of Android, and morph all the time, so printing something to
>>>>>>> ship with the phone is a hostage to fortune.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even something as simple as the app-store changes. I've just noticed
>>>>>>> that it no longer has (nor can I find by poking around) a collection of
>>>>>>> "My Apps", which I think used to be sorted roughly in reverse
>>>>>>> chronological order of first installation, and one way to remind oneself
>>>>>>> of a recently forgotten name; also to assist restoring those apps which
>>>>>>> "new phone swap" software inevitably loses track of several.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You’ve yet to tell us the make and model of your apparently un
>>>>>>searchable
>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> [Still playing catch-up]
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not relevant. All you need to know is it's a well known brand, not
>>>>> a Samsung, had a launch price of £650[1], and is running Android 7.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, it's now searchable because I found an App which does that.
>>>>> Although that requires one to remember the stupid marketing name of the
>>>>> gadget whose app you are looking for. (eg "Starship" for the CoOp's
>>>>> robot home delivery service)
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] Apparently some people think the only important thing about a phone
>>>>>     is the reflected glory, rather than its specification.
>>>>
>>>> That person being you.
>>>
>>> Yes, good point. Roland keeps boasting of the high original launch price of
>>> his ancient phone, but is remarkably coy about its specification.
>>
>> Which part interests you... the 32GB storage, 4GB RAM, the dual 13MP
>> camera or the 4MP screen. And why?
>
>By modern standards, that's a really, really low spec phone.

Which part do you think should be better, and why would it matter?

Second time of asking: WHICH PART, and no more arm waving, please.

>And, btw, it's not a 4mp screen. It's a *lot* lower than that (hint:
>multiply the height and width dimensions).

Actually it is, because I did. Oops, your own goal again.
--
Roland Perry

In message <idkp1itl0dkb7fl7935732haugsb6isqok@4ax.com>, at 22:36:04 on
Thu, 23 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>>>Roland keeps boasting of the high original launch price of
>>>his ancient phone, but is remarkably coy about its specification.
>>
>>Which part interests you... the 32GB storage, 4GB RAM, the dual 13MP
>>camera or the 4MP screen. And why?
>
>I'm guessing it's something like the Huawei Honor 7x, which launched in late 2017 with Android 7, later updatable to
>Android 8.

That can't be right, because the launch price was $200, and you already
know, modulo signature goldfish brain, that mine was $650

>The entry level model had 4GB RAM and 32GB storage. The 5.93" screen is 2160x1080, or 2.3mp.

Moot.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 15:46:39 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <tvicn5$19r82$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:27:17 on Thu, 23 Mar
>2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tv9ch1$3g692$5@dont-email.me>, at 10:28:49 on Mon, 20 Mar
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 20/03/2023 08:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <tsv671$mkb6$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:07:13 on Mon, 20 Feb
>>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <ts2b57$ke9h$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:33:43 on Thu, 9 Feb
>>>>>>>> 2023, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2023 at 8:33:11 AM EET, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In message <trqoes$32dj1$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:40 on Mon, 6 Feb
>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you continuing to flog this dead horse argument? I
>>>>>>>>>>>> how to use the phones, but I can't access a facility that
>>>>>>>>>>>> simply doesn't exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And yes, for the umpteenth time, "Swipe up" does *NOTHING* on my
>>>>>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you configure it to do something useful then?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There's no user-configurable option to achieve that. Odd you should
>>>>>>>>>> still be under the misapprehension there might be.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This, at least, might well be true, given how ancient Roland's
>>>>>>>>> phones are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pinned down a week ago (but I'm still catching up on some old threads)
>>>>>>>> as dating to May 2021.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Android didn't really get system-wide gesture support until
>>>>>>>>> Android 9 (wherein it was half-baked and awful), and didn't get
>>>>>>>>> *good* system-wide gesture support until Android 10, at which
>>>>>>>>> point they'd ditched what they did in v9 and essentially just
>>>>>>>>> copied what Samsung had been doing for a few years. Since then,
>>>>>>>>> it's been pretty much unchanged. (Samsung were the first to drop
>>>>>>>>> the dedicated apps/home/back buttons to move to "all screen"
>>>>>>>>> phones, and introduced gesture support at around the same time
>>>>>>>>> as part of the 'replacement' of physical buttons.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My wife's new Moto phone (the previous approx two year old one expired
>>>>>>>> with a duff battery, but also broken screen), and which only arrived
>>>>>>>> since this subthread thread began, has dropped those three buttons and
>>>>>>>> she *hates* it. Of course, it has the swipe-up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given that the Android 6 generation (Samsung Galaxy S7 being an
>>>>>>>>> example) were  the last to have physical buttons, and the all-glass
>>>>>>>>> generation (Galaxy S8 on)  launched with Android 7, it's quite
>>>>>>>>> likely even Roland's Samsung is too old to  have gesture support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Samsung is my work phone, so not my problem. It dates to November
>>>>>>>> 2021. However I literally only have two third party apps (and only use
>>>>>>>> three or four bundled ones like Phone), so searching for them isn't an
>>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However, search for an app very much is a facility that does
>>>>>>>>> even in Android 6, as I've demonstrated elsewhere. Roland
>>>>>>>>>just needs to find the manual for his phone to learn how to use it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The facility you mentioned iirc is a work-around, where you re-run a
>>>>>>>> query to the cloud-based app-store and it says "In the list of choices
>>>>>>>> I'm offering you now, I have a note here which says you should have
>>>>>>>> <<this one>> already installed. Of course, the app may have been
>>>>>>>> uninstalled locally. Anyway, it then takes you to the page in the app
>>>>>>>> store, where there's an "Open" button.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's more of a puzzle is why the manual which came with the phone
>>>>>>>> would have hints-and-tips (or even anything at all) in it, regarding use
>>>>>>>> of the app-store. Or even gestures. Part of the problem being these are
>>>>>>>> a feature of Android, and morph all the time, so printing something to
>>>>>>>> ship with the phone is a hostage to fortune.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even something as simple as the app-store changes. I've just noticed
>>>>>>>> that it no longer has (nor can I find by poking around) a collection of
>>>>>>>> "My Apps", which I think used to be sorted roughly in reverse
>>>>>>>> chronological order of first installation, and one way to remind oneself
>>>>>>>> of a recently forgotten name; also to assist restoring those apps which
>>>>>>>> "new phone swap" software inevitably loses track of several.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You’ve yet to tell us the make and model of your apparently un
>>>>>>>searchable
>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [Still playing catch-up]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not relevant. All you need to know is it's a well known brand, not
>>>>>> a Samsung, had a launch price of £650[1], and is running Android 7.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, it's now searchable because I found an App which does that.
>>>>>> Although that requires one to remember the stupid marketing name of the
>>>>>> gadget whose app you are looking for. (eg "Starship" for the CoOp's
>>>>>> robot home delivery service)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] Apparently some people think the only important thing about a phone
>>>>>>     is the reflected glory, rather than its specification.
>>>>>
>>>>> That person being you.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, good point. Roland keeps boasting of the high original launch price of
>>>> his ancient phone, but is remarkably coy about its specification.
>>>
>>> Which part interests you... the 32GB storage, 4GB RAM, the dual 13MP
>>> camera or the 4MP screen. And why?
>>
>>By modern standards, that's a really, really low spec phone.
>
>Which part do you think should be better, and why would it matter?
>
>Second time of asking: WHICH PART, and no more arm waving, please.

The storage is much lower than in a modern phone. Any entry level modern phone would have at least 64GB, many have
128GB, and premium phones typically have 256GB. And only two cameras in total?

>
>>And, btw, it's not a 4mp screen. It's a *lot* lower than that (hint:
>>multiply the height and width dimensions).
>
>Actually it is, because I did. Oops, your own goal again.

On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 15:49:54 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <idkp1itl0dkb7fl7935732haugsb6isqok@4ax.com>, at 22:36:04 on
>Thu, 23 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>>Roland keeps boasting of the high original launch price of
>>>>his ancient phone, but is remarkably coy about its specification.
>>>
>>>Which part interests you... the 32GB storage, 4GB RAM, the dual 13MP
>>>camera or the 4MP screen. And why?
>>
>>I'm guessing it's something like the Huawei Honor 7x, which launched in late 2017 with Android 7, later updatable to
>>Android 8.
>
>That can't be right, because the launch price was $200, and you already
>know, modulo signature goldfish brain, that mine was $650

You have variously quoted the same number as both $ and £. So, at least one was a lie. And I don't believe a phone with
as modest a spec as yours could have been that much in 2017. That Huawei had a higher spec than yours, and was only
$199/€299/£269 when launched. So, I just don't believe what you're claiming.

Why don't you upload an unedited photo (of anything)?

In message <tvidr8$19uej$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:46:32 on Thu, 23 Mar
2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>On 23/03/2023 15:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tvhl9m$15m7k$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:47:34 on Thu, 23 Mar
>>2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>>> A newsreader will never sound as if you are six feet away due to
>>>>>audio  compression.
>>
>>>>  Did R4 stereo FM have much compression? If it helps I was also
>>>>picking  it up in effect line of sight (albeit across the Thames)
>>>>from Wrotham,  so no perceptible noise. Tuner had state of the art
>>>>low pass filter for  noise and stereo "warbles". By co-incidence we
>>>>were the sole importers  of those filters (and we resold to posh hi-fi firms).
>>>
>>> It certainly had some compression but less than R1 and R2.

>> There's not a lot of need to compress a newsreader (oo err, missus).
>>Even if they shout, it would probably be within the regular dynamic
>>range.
>
>The newsreader mic will have ALC at the very least and sometimes a
>little compression.

Whatever they used, I ca assure you the newsreader sounded like they
were in the same room. Something I'd not experienced before or since
(with different audio systems).
--
Roland Perry

In message <8qb32ipfgqpkok1ba2stabdjih670596h0@4ax.com>, at 16:06:40 on
Mon, 27 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 15:46:39 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <tvicn5$19r82$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:27:17 on Thu, 23 Mar
>>2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tv9ch1$3g692$5@dont-email.me>, at 10:28:49 on Mon, 20 Mar
>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 20/03/2023 08:49, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <tsv671$mkb6$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:07:13 on Mon, 20 Feb
>>>>>>> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <ts2b57$ke9h$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:33:43 on Thu, 9 Feb
>>>>>>>>> 2023, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2023 at 8:33:11 AM EET, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <trqoes$32dj1$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:40 on Mon, 6 Feb
>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you continuing to flog this dead horse argument? I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how to use the phones, but I can't access a facility that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply doesn't exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And yes, for the umpteenth time, "Swipe up" does *NOTHING* on my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you configure it to do something useful then?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's no user-configurable option to achieve that. Odd you should
>>>>>>>>>>> still be under the misapprehension there might be.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This, at least, might well be true, given how ancient Roland's
>>>>>>>>>> phones are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pinned down a week ago (but I'm still catching up on some old threads)
>>>>>>>>> as dating to May 2021.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Android didn't really get system-wide gesture support until
>>>>>>>>>> Android 9 (wherein it was half-baked and awful), and didn't get
>>>>>>>>>> *good* system-wide gesture support until Android 10, at which
>>>>>>>>>> point they'd ditched what they did in v9 and essentially just
>>>>>>>>>> copied what Samsung had been doing for a few years. Since then,
>>>>>>>>>> it's been pretty much unchanged. (Samsung were the first to drop
>>>>>>>>>> the dedicated apps/home/back buttons to move to "all screen"
>>>>>>>>>> phones, and introduced gesture support at around the same time
>>>>>>>>>> as part of the 'replacement' of physical buttons.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My wife's new Moto phone (the previous approx two year old one expired
>>>>>>>>> with a duff battery, but also broken screen), and which only arrived
>>>>>>>>> since this subthread thread began, has dropped those three buttons and
>>>>>>>>> she *hates* it. Of course, it has the swipe-up.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given that the Android 6 generation (Samsung Galaxy S7 being an
>>>>>>>>>> example) were  the last to have physical buttons, and the all-glass
>>>>>>>>>> generation (Galaxy S8 on)  launched with Android 7, it's quite
>>>>>>>>>> likely even Roland's Samsung is too old to  have gesture support.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Samsung is my work phone, so not my problem. It dates to November
>>>>>>>>> 2021. However I literally only have two third party apps (and only use
>>>>>>>>> three or four bundled ones like Phone), so searching for them isn't an
>>>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> However, search for an app very much is a facility that does
>>>>>>>>>> even in Android 6, as I've demonstrated elsewhere. Roland
>>>>>>>>>>just needs to find the manual for his phone to learn how to use it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The facility you mentioned iirc is a work-around, where you re-run a
>>>>>>>>> query to the cloud-based app-store and it says "In the list of choices
>>>>>>>>> I'm offering you now, I have a note here which says you should have
>>>>>>>>> <<this one>> already installed. Of course, the app may have been
>>>>>>>>> uninstalled locally. Anyway, it then takes you to the page in the app
>>>>>>>>> store, where there's an "Open" button.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What's more of a puzzle is why the manual which came with the phone
>>>>>>>>> would have hints-and-tips (or even anything at all) in it,
>>>>>>>>>regarding use
>>>>>>>>> of the app-store. Or even gestures. Part of the problem being
>>>>>>>>>these are
>>>>>>>>> a feature of Android, and morph all the time, so printing something to
>>>>>>>>> ship with the phone is a hostage to fortune.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even something as simple as the app-store changes. I've just noticed
>>>>>>>>> that it no longer has (nor can I find by poking around) a
>>>>>>>>>collection of
>>>>>>>>> "My Apps", which I think used to be sorted roughly in reverse
>>>>>>>>> chronological order of first installation, and one way to
>>>>>>>>>remind oneself
>>>>>>>>> of a recently forgotten name; also to assist restoring those
>>>>>>>>>apps which
>>>>>>>>> "new phone swap" software inevitably loses track of several.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You’ve yet to tell us the make and model of your apparently un
>>>>>>>>searchable
>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [Still playing catch-up]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not relevant. All you need to know is it's a well known brand, not
>>>>>>> a Samsung, had a launch price of £650[1], and is running Android 7.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, it's now searchable because I found an App which does that.
>>>>>>> Although that requires one to remember the stupid marketing name of the
>>>>>>> gadget whose app you are looking for. (eg "Starship" for the CoOp's
>>>>>>> robot home delivery service)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] Apparently some people think the only important thing about a phone
>>>>>>>     is the reflected glory, rather than its specification.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That person being you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, good point. Roland keeps boasting of the high original launch
>>>>>price of
>>>>> his ancient phone, but is remarkably coy about its specification.
>>>>
>>>> Which part interests you... the 32GB storage, 4GB RAM, the dual 13MP
>>>> camera or the 4MP screen. And why?
>>>
>>>By modern standards, that's a really, really low spec phone.
>>
>>Which part do you think should be better, and why would it matter?
>>
>>Second time of asking: WHICH PART, and no more arm waving, please.
>
>The storage is much lower than in a modern phone. Any entry level
>modern phone would have at least 64GB, many have
>128GB, and premium phones typically have 256GB. And only two cameras in
>total?
>
>>
>>>And, btw, it's not a 4mp screen. It's a *lot* lower than that (hint:
>>>multiply the height and width dimensions).
>>
>>Actually it is, because I did. Oops, your own goal again.
>
>So, what are the actual screen dimensions? Or, better still, upload a
>screen capture.

In message <a8c32ih0hfac1qd8rrh59b4ciubugm6j1t@4ax.com>, at 16:11:39 on
Mon, 27 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 15:49:54 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <idkp1itl0dkb7fl7935732haugsb6isqok@4ax.com>, at 22:36:04 on
>>Thu, 23 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>>>Roland keeps boasting of the high original launch price of
>>>>>his ancient phone, but is remarkably coy about its specification.
>>>>
>>>>Which part interests you... the 32GB storage, 4GB RAM, the dual 13MP
>>>>camera or the 4MP screen. And why?
>>>
>>>I'm guessing it's something like the Huawei Honor 7x, which launched
>>>in late 2017 with Android 7, later updatable to
>>>Android 8.
>>
>>That can't be right, because the launch price was $200, and you already
>>know, modulo signature goldfish brain, that mine was $650
>
>You have variously quoted the same number as both $ and £.

Probably due to getting the currency wrong because the various sites I
checked were mainly priced in Euros or Dollars.

>So, at least one was a lie. And I don't believe a phone with
>as modest a spec as yours could have been that much in 2017.

Not a modest spec, so it's a moot point.

>That Huawei had a higher spec than yours, and was only
>$199/€299/£269 when launched. So, I just don't believe what you're claiming.
>
>Why don't you upload an unedited photo (of anything)?

I've uploaded numerous, but that gives the resolution of the camera, not
the screen, and 13MP isn't particularly unusual.
--
Roland Perry

In message <tvicn5$19r82$6@dont-email.me>, at 20:27:17 on Thu, 23 Mar
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <hijo1i9qf3ra54tc2vdhabr4l3cb7j2ord@4ax.com>, at 13:04:56 on
>> Thu, 23 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Thu, 23 Mar 2023 09:43:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <tvemf3$jd0k$5@dont-email.me>, at 10:49:07 on Wed, 22 Mar
>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <tvclco$657m$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:18:32 on Tue, 21 Mar
>>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <tsvqj4$p3ob$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:55:00 on Mon, 20 Feb
>>>>>>>> 2023, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 20 Feb 2023 at 9:31:03 AM EET, "Graeme Wall"
>>>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 20/02/2023 06:17, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <ts2b57$ke9h$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:33:43 on Thu, 9 Feb
>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2023 at 8:33:11 AM EET, "Roland Perry"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <trqoes$32dj1$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:40 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you continuing to flog this dead horse argument? I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know how to use the phones, but I can't access a facility
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And yes, for the umpteenth time, "Swipe up" does *NOTHING* on my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you configure it to do something useful then?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's no user-configurable option to achieve that. Odd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still be under the misapprehension there might be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This, at least, might well be true, given how ancient
>>>>>>>>>>>>Roland's phones
>>>>>>>>>>>> are.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pinned down a week ago (but I'm still catching up on some
>>>>>>>>>>>old threads)
>>>>>>>>>>> as dating to May 2021.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Android didn't really get system-wide gesture support until
>>>>>>>>>>>> Android 9 (wherein it was half-baked and awful), and didn't get
>>>>>>>>>>>> *good* system-wide gesture support until Android 10, at which
>>>>>>>>>>>> point they'd ditched what they did in v9 and essentially just
>>>>>>>>>>>> copied what Samsung had been doing for a few years. Since then,
>>>>>>>>>>>> it's been pretty much unchanged. (Samsung were the first to drop
>>>>>>>>>>>> the dedicated apps/home/back buttons to move to "all screen"
>>>>>>>>>>>> phones, and introduced gesture support at around the same time as
>>>>>>>>>>>> part of the 'replacement' of physical buttons.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My wife's new Moto phone (the previous approx two year old
>>>>>>>>>>>one expired
>>>>>>>>>>> with a duff battery, but also broken screen), and which only arrived
>>>>>>>>>>> since this subthread thread began, has dropped those three
>>>>>>>>>>>buttons and
>>>>>>>>>>> she *hates* it. Of course, it has the swipe-up.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Given that the Android 6 generation (Samsung Galaxy S7 being an
>>>>>>>>>>>> example) were the last to have physical buttons, and the all-glass
>>>>>>>>>>>> generation (Galaxy S8 on) launched with Android 7, it's quite
>>>>>>>>>>>> likely even Roland's Samsung is too old to have gesture support.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Samsung is my work phone, so not my problem. It dates to
>>>>>>>>>>>November
>>>>>>>>>>> 2021. However I literally only have two third party apps
>>>>>>>>>>>(and only use
>>>>>>>>>>> three or four bundled ones like Phone), so searching for
>>>>>>>>>>>them isn't an
>>>>>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> However, search for an app very much is a facility that does exist,
>>>>>>>>>>>> even in Android 6, as I've demonstrated elsewhere. Roland just
>>>>>>>>>>>> needs to find the manual for his phone to learn how to use it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The facility you mentioned iirc is a work-around, where you re-run a
>>>>>>>>>>> query to the cloud-based app-store and it says "In the list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm offering you now, I have a note here which says you should have
>>>>>>>>>>> <<this one>> already installed. Of course, the app may have been
>>>>>>>>>>> uninstalled locally. Anyway, it then takes you to the page
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> store, where there's an "Open" button.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What's more of a puzzle is why the manual which came with the
>>>>>>>>>>> phone would have hints-and-tips (or even anything at all) in
>>>>>>>>>>> it, regarding use of the app-store. Or even gestures. Part of
>>>>>>>>>>> the problem being these are a feature of Android, and morph
>>>>>>>>>>> all the time, so printing something to ship with the phone is
>>>>>>>>>>> a hostage to fortune.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Even something as simple as the app-store changes. I've just
>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that it no longer has (nor can I find by poking
>>>>>>>>>>> around) a collection of "My Apps", which I think used to be
>>>>>>>>>>> sorted roughly in reverse chronological order of first
>>>>>>>>>>> installation, and one way to remind oneself of a recently
>>>>>>>>>>> forgotten name; also to assist restoring those apps which "new
>>>>>>>>>>> phone swap" software inevitably loses track of several.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Simple answer, get yourself an iPhone, it just works.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've already gone to the trouble of posting a video of how Roland's
>>>>>>>>> phone with Android 6 would "just work" as well, he just refuses to
>>>>>>>>> actually learn how to use it. I'm not sure even Apple have cracked
>>>>>>>>> the problem of making something 'just work' when the user wilfully
>>>>>>>>> refuses to actually try.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It should also be noted that Apple stuff also ceases to 'just work'
>>>>>>>>> after a while of ignoring (or no longer available) software updates
>>>>>>>>> - I have an old iPad that is testament to that, being good for not
>>>>>>>>> much more than a paperweight these days. The question of how Roland
>>>>>>>>> has managed to get someone to sell him in 2021 a supposedly new
>>>>>>>>> device with an operating system that was discontinued in 2016 is
>>>>>>>>> very much at the heart of this mystery...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The phone itself was released in 2017, and as a flagship of its
>>>>>>>>time there's nothing in the hardware (other than 5G) which
>>>>>>>>inclines me to buy a more recent design.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A flagship 2017 phone would probably have come with Android 8,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Except there's a race between hardware and software versions, and in
>>>>>> this case it turns out that the first stable release of Android 8
>>>>>> (almost September 2017) was too late for that particular phone's
>>>>>> manufacturing cycle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's in fact the third example of the same (modulo perhaps
>>>>>>>> gigabytes) model I've had, the previous two having physically broken
>>>>>>>> in some way or another. So to some extent they are simply
>>>>>>>> self-provisioned swapout-repairs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That proven fragility would put me off buying another one!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's a degree of "frying pan to the fire" syndrome to take account
>>>>>> of. And I have other things to do than constantly doing smartphone
>>>>>> evaluations, to see which one to buy next.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you chose which dirt cheap, used phone to buy off eBay based on the
>>>>> brand, not the specifications?
>>>>
>>>> I don't remember where I bought them all (there's nothing showing in my
>>>> eBay purchases history, or I'd have been more easily able to pin down
>>>> the dates). Maybe the third - which like the second was BNIB - was from
>>>> Amazon.
>>>>
>>>> I bought the second and third as near-identical roll-over replacements,
>>>> as I've described in detail.
>>>>
>>>> The first I bought on specification - remember, it was a phone for a
>>>> particular testing project, so needed to be right; but as I wasn't
>>>> expecting to use it for other than that testing, it didn't matter if it
>>>> was second-user. In fact, that allowed me to have a bigger pool to
>>>> choose from, rather than only what was brand new in the shops that day.
>>>>
>>>> And saved the client some money.
>>>
>>> What sort of testing do you do for clients?
>>
>> Mainly identifying vulnerabilities which facilitate digital abuse (and
>> then coming up with easy-to-explain mitigations).
>>
>> I posted this a few weeks ago, you do need to at least skim-read it. I
>> did all the mobile phone/app stuff in there (fleeting acknowledgment on
>> p4), rounded up tech advice from most of the rest of those listed, and
>> was the contact point for ACPO/Home Office. Jennifer got the funding,
>> worked with the psychologists and charities, and did the drafting
>> legwork.
>>
>> <https://www.saferderbyshire.gov.uk/site-elements/documents/pdf/digital
>> -stalking-a-guide-to-technology-risks-for-victims.pdf>
>>
>> This was national guidance, I'm posting one of the syndicated versions.
>>
>> I'm sure I've also posted the material from p25 here in the past.
>> (Notice the railway theme). Apple were (see my recent posting about
>> Jaguar disc brakes) much put out by the title on p77. How dare we
>> suggest they weren't inherently safe.
>>
>> Some of the later projects weren't for a public audience. The sad fact
>> is that ten years later, neither the industry nor government (see Online
>> Safety Bill, which I laid the framework for, with another hat on) has
>> done hardly anything to mitigate the risks. In particular upgrading from
>> Android 7 to Android 8 (or whatever) is not even a blip on that radar.
>
>Is the UK government in any position to influence phone security?

In message <XooDZGEgBDMkFArL@perry.uk>, at 16:01:52 on Fri, 7 Apr 2023,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>In message <a8c32ih0hfac1qd8rrh59b4ciubugm6j1t@4ax.com>, at 16:11:39 on
>Mon, 27 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 15:49:54 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <idkp1itl0dkb7fl7935732haugsb6isqok@4ax.com>, at 22:36:04 on
>>>Thu, 23 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>Roland keeps boasting of the high original launch price of
>>>>>>his ancient phone, but is remarkably coy about its specification.
>>>>>
>>>>>Which part interests you... the 32GB storage, 4GB RAM, the dual 13MP
>>>>>camera or the 4MP screen. And why?
>>>>
>>>>I'm guessing it's something like the Huawei Honor 7x, which launched
>>>>in late 2017 with Android 7, later updatable to
>>>>Android 8.
>>>
>>>That can't be right, because the launch price was $200, and you already
>>>know, modulo signature goldfish brain, that mine was $650
>>
>>You have variously quoted the same number as both $ and £.
>
>Probably due to getting the currency wrong because the various sites I
>checked were mainly priced in Euros or Dollars.

GSM Arena $700, TechRadar £649, CNET $600-700 depending on carrier.
--
Roland Perry