Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spv2c0$f9s$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:32:16 on Wed, 22 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spt9vl$r19$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:29:57 on Tue, 21 Dec
>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>>>>
>>>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>>>> with the volume.
>>>>
>>>> Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use the
>>>> technology that allows it work.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you could suggest a better email client than Spark, which was
>>> the one that came out on top last groundhog day.
>>>
>>> It does "work", of course, but struggles with more than ten folders, or
>>> ten emails, on the screen at once.
>>
>> I use Outlook. It displays either seven message titles/summaries, or 15
>> folders, on screen at any one time, but luckily I have a thumb which can
>> scroll to see the rest.
>
> Whereas I can see vastly more at a glance, without having to scroll
> anything.

While you're on the train or travelling?

In message <spvic6$hp1$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:05:26 on Wed, 22 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spt2o7$5ua$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:26:31 on Tue, 21 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spq6ak$ui$4@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:08 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you
>>>>>>>>>> think set
>>>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what
>>>>>>>percentage of
>>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email
>>>>>>>addresses
>>>>>>> for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
>>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now
>>>>>>>going to claim
>>>>>>> that none of them buy anything online?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sure loads of them buy things online, but they don't often involve a
>>>>>> fulfilment process that requires them to present a barcode to the
>>>>>> merchant (or even the delivery man).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And even when they do, it's probably not on-the-hoof minutes after
>>>>>> having placed the order, thus requiring the barcode to be on their
>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet for those things which do require the emailed barcode to be shown
>>>>> (theatre, museum, zoo, farm park etc) I'd suggest that the
>>>>>majority will be
>>>>> quite successfully shown on phones.
>>>>
>>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>>
>>> When are you going to accept that most people just don’t care which it is?
>>
>> When there's some evidence that they are happy to be forced into using a
>> phone app to email them a pdf, because the TVM at their departure
>> station is unexpectedly broken.
>
>Of course nobody enjoys encounters with broken TVMs, but receiving a ticket
>by email won't bother them (assuming they use email at all).

If they don't use email, they'll never get the ticket they need to buy
at the last minute to assure themselves of avoiding the £100 Penalty
Fare.

--
Roland Perry

In message <spvic7$hp1$4@dont-email.me>, at 16:05:27 on Wed, 22 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spv2c0$f9s$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:32:16 on Wed, 22 Dec
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spt9vl$r19$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:29:57 on Tue, 21 Dec
>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>>>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>>>>> with the volume.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use the
>>>>> technology that allows it work.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you could suggest a better email client than Spark, which was
>>>> the one that came out on top last groundhog day.
>>>>
>>>> It does "work", of course, but struggles with more than ten folders, or
>>>> ten emails, on the screen at once.
>>>
>>> I use Outlook. It displays either seven message titles/summaries, or 15
>>> folders, on screen at any one time, but luckily I have a thumb which can
>>> scroll to see the rest.
>>
>> Whereas I can see vastly more at a glance, without having to scroll
>> anything.
>
>While you're on the train or travelling?

Yes, because I take my laptop with me, if it's a trip of any length
that's not entirely off-peak leisure. Not that there's been many of the
latter the last two years.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spt9vl$r19$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:29:57 on Tue, 21 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>>
>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>> with the volume.
>>
>> Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use the
>> technology that allows it work.
>
> Perhaps you could suggest a better email client than Spark, which was
> the one that came out on top last groundhog day.
>
> It does "work", of course, but struggles with more than ten folders, or
> ten emails, on the screen at once.

I’ve never used Spark. At the moment I’m using a FastMail account accessed
by IMAP from Apple Mail on the desktop and the FastMail app on Android and
iPod. The way it behavess suggests that the app is using IMAP behind the
scenes. Mail is also available in a web browser which has a very similar
look and feel to the app.

Previously on my phone I used to use K-9 Mail to access my work IMAP
account, and then later Outlook as we transitioned to MS services
(akk-phht), for a while using both in parallel. I had the FastMail app on
the phone as well so I didn’t have the accounts accessed through a single
app. I used to access all three accounts by Apple Mail on home and work
desktops and laptops and could also use various web services as the
occasion demanded.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 22/12/2021 16:05, Recliner wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spt2o7$5ua$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:26:31 on Tue, 21 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spq6ak$ui$4@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:08 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you
>>>>>>>>>> think set
>>>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what percentage of
>>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email addresses
>>>>>>> for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
>>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now going to claim
>>>>>>> that none of them buy anything online?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sure loads of them buy things online, but they don't often involve a
>>>>>> fulfilment process that requires them to present a barcode to the
>>>>>> merchant (or even the delivery man).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And even when they do, it's probably not on-the-hoof minutes after
>>>>>> having placed the order, thus requiring the barcode to be on their
>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet for those things which do require the emailed barcode to be shown
>>>>> (theatre, museum, zoo, farm park etc) I'd suggest that the majority will be
>>>>> quite successfully shown on phones.
>>>>
>>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>>
>>> When are you going to accept that most people just don’t care which it is?
>>
>> When there's some evidence that they are happy to be forced into using a
>> phone app to email them a pdf, because the TVM at their departure
>> station is unexpectedly broken.
>
> Of course nobody enjoys encounters with broken TVMs, but receiving a ticket
> by email won't bother them (assuming they use email at all).
>
I've encountered broken TVMs and just got on the train. They even let
me through the barrier at Cheltenham Spa railway station with just my
email receipt after travelling from Cogan.

I've seen how TfW's TTI "swat squat" operate and if they introduce a
penalty fare zone here I would not travel if I was unable to obtain a
ticket at Cogan railway station.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spt2o7$5ua$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:26:31 on Tue, 21 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spq6ak$ui$4@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:08 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you
>>>>>>>>> think set
>>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what percentage of
>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email addresses
>>>>>> for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now going to claim
>>>>>> that none of them buy anything online?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure loads of them buy things online, but they don't often involve a
>>>>> fulfilment process that requires them to present a barcode to the
>>>>> merchant (or even the delivery man).
>>>>>
>>>>> And even when they do, it's probably not on-the-hoof minutes after
>>>>> having placed the order, thus requiring the barcode to be on their
>>>>> phone.
>>>>
>>>> And yet for those things which do require the emailed barcode to be shown
>>>> (theatre, museum, zoo, farm park etc) I'd suggest that the majority will be
>>>> quite successfully shown on phones.
>>>
>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>
>> When are you going to accept that most people just don’t care which it is?
>
> When there's some evidence that they are happy to be forced into using a
> phone app to email them a pdf, because the TVM at their departure
> station is unexpectedly broken.

I’m sorry, but I can’t see the train of thought between your previous
paragraph (apps good, email PDFs bad) and this comment. I’m suggesting
that most people, unlike you, don’t seem to care whether the ticket is
in-app or an emailed PDF. I don’t know where the idea of the app emailing
a PDF comes from.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sptpdb$aju$3@dont-email.me>, at 23:53:15 on Tue, 21 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spq6ak$ui$4@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:08 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you
>>>>>>>>> think set
>>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what percentage of
>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email addresses
>>>>>> for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now going to claim
>>>>>> that none of them buy anything online?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure loads of them buy things online, but they don't often involve a
>>>>> fulfilment process that requires them to present a barcode to the
>>>>> merchant (or even the delivery man).
>>>>>
>>>>> And even when they do, it's probably not on-the-hoof minutes after
>>>>> having placed the order, thus requiring the barcode to be on their
>>>>> phone.
>>>>
>>>> And yet for those things which do require the emailed barcode to be shown
>>>> (theatre, museum, zoo, farm park etc) I'd suggest that the majority will be
>>>> quite successfully shown on phones.
>>>
>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>
>> IMX all those are emailed. I don't think random museums, farm parks and
>> MailRail tend to have their own apps…
>
> But the booking agencies used by some "attractions" do.
>
> And our local movie theatre (Cineworld) has an app.

But you don’t have to use it - my last cinema trip was to a Cineworld and
an email with embedded QR code worked fine. I’ve not investigated how the
QR code was embedded.

> Most recent review: "This app deserves 0 stars but fortunately for its
> creaters, that's not an option."
>
> However it does appear to have in-app tickets:
>
> <https://play-lh.googleusercontent.com/M1jjc5QrL6zFW8o-QJ8f5MxgoyfVxyjh
> ZXz0Z6R9FufLHGGNVBLpsDgGEGEsJuL2AHk=w1050-h1567>
>
> Shame that phone's only got 14% battery left, I hope it lasts until they
> get to the cinema.

Given that the image is (allegedly) taken at 17:10 but the film doesn’t
start until 11am, perhaps they’ll do what most people do and charge the
phone in the intervening 18 hours.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <spvic7$hp1$3@dont-email.me>, at 16:05:27 on Wed, 22 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sput7s$5si$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:04:43 on Wed, 22 Dec
>> 2021, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec >
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>
>>>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>>>> with the volume.
>>
>>>> ×Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use
>>>> thetechnology that allows it work.
>>>> ×Sam (single email account, multiple addresses, 58 folders, all accessible
>>>> from phone, tablet and desktop)
>>>
>>> Indeed, Roland's problems with technology really are quite remarkable.
>>
>> I don't have problems with technology. I have problems with
>> inappropriate technology. Trying to make phones a one-size-fits-all
>> solution for IT needs is just bizarre.
>
>For you.
>
>Not for anyone under 40.

I remain unconvinced an under-40 can receive and edit a 20 page Word
document on a phone. At least, within a shadow of the time it could be
done on a desktop.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spvmu5$n7a$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:23:17 on Wed, 22 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spt2o7$5ua$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:26:31 on Tue, 21 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spq6ak$ui$4@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:08 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you
>>>>>>>>>> think set
>>>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what
>>>>>>>percentage of
>>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email
>>>>>>>addresses
>>>>>>> for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
>>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now
>>>>>>>going to claim
>>>>>>> that none of them buy anything online?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sure loads of them buy things online, but they don't often involve a
>>>>>> fulfilment process that requires them to present a barcode to the
>>>>>> merchant (or even the delivery man).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And even when they do, it's probably not on-the-hoof minutes after
>>>>>> having placed the order, thus requiring the barcode to be on their
>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet for those things which do require the emailed barcode to be shown
>>>>> (theatre, museum, zoo, farm park etc) I'd suggest that the
>>>>>majority will be
>>>>> quite successfully shown on phones.
>>>>
>>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>>
>>> When are you going to accept that most people just don’t care which it is?
>>
>> When there's some evidence that they are happy to be forced into using a
>> phone app to email them a pdf, because the TVM at their departure
>> station is unexpectedly broken.
>
>I’m sorry, but I can’t see the train of thought between your previous
>paragraph (apps good, email PDFs bad) and this comment. I’m suggesting
>that most people, unlike you, don’t seem to care whether the ticket is
>in-app or an emailed PDF. I don’t know where the idea of the app emailing
>a PDF comes from.

Because many apps email a PDF, which is then fiddly to find and display.
At the very least, involving having a suitably fettled email client on
the phone, as well as having the train app. Why can't they just push the
ticket to the train app?
--
Roland Perry

In message <spvmu5$n7a$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:23:18 on Wed, 22 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:

>>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>>
>>> IMX all those are emailed. I don't think random museums, farm parks and
>>> MailRail tend to have their own apps…
>>
>> But the booking agencies used by some "attractions" do.
>>
>> And our local movie theatre (Cineworld) has an app.
>
>But you don’t have to use it - my last cinema trip was to a Cineworld and
>an email with embedded QR code worked fine. I’ve not investigated how the
>QR code was embedded.

The proposition was that booking apps can, and do, use in-app delivery.
I've given this example.

>> Most recent review: "This app deserves 0 stars but fortunately for its
>> creaters, that's not an option."
>>
>> However it does appear to have in-app tickets:
>>
>> <https://play-lh.googleusercontent.com/M1jjc5QrL6zFW8o-QJ8f5MxgoyfVxyjh
>> ZXz0Z6R9FufLHGGNVBLpsDgGEGEsJuL2AHk=w1050-h1567>
>>
>> Shame that phone's only got 14% battery left, I hope it lasts until they
>> get to the cinema.
>
>Given that the image is (allegedly) taken at 17:10 but the film doesn’t
>start until 11am, perhaps they’ll do what most people do and charge the
>phone in the intervening 18 hours.

On my local Facebook group today there's someone who has lost their
iPhone at the station, or on the train (they don't know which, but it
could also have been pick-pocketed). Turns out they can't locate it or
do all the other clever iCloud stuff [which is what people immediately
suggest], because they know the phone's battery was dead before they
misplaced it.
--
Roland Perry

On 22/12/2021 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <spvic7$hp1$3@dont-email.me>, at 16:05:27 on Wed, 22 Dec
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sput7s$5si$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:04:43 on Wed, 22 Dec
>>> 2021, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec >
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>>
>>>>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>>>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>>>>> with the volume.
>>>
>>>>> ×Of course it works on a sodding phone!  You just choose not to use
>>>>> thetechnology that allows it work.
>>>>> ×Sam (single email account, multiple addresses, 58 folders, all
>>>>> accessible
>>>>> from phone, tablet and desktop)
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, Roland's problems with technology really are quite remarkable.
>>>
>>> I don't have problems with technology. I have problems with
>>> inappropriate technology. Trying to make phones a one-size-fits-all
>>> solution for IT needs is just bizarre.
>>
>> For you.
>>
>> Not for anyone under 40.
>
> I remain unconvinced an under-40 can receive and edit a 20 page Word
> document on a phone. At least, within a shadow of the time it could be
> done on a desktop.

Though they probably could, why would they want to? How many train
tickets run to 20 pages?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spt2o6$5ua$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:26:30 on Tue, 21 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spn7ch$nbf$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:08:49 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spj30t$ffe$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:29:49 on Fri, 17 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <spavjm$qqm$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:30 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even using a specific email address for ticket providers is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not viable
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I'm illegally on two email lists neither of which provide the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> legally required link to remove myself for the same.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course it is viable, how long does it take to set up a
>>>>>>>>>>>> specific email
>>>>>>>>>>>> address for the purpose?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not long. But it becomes usable when the junk email builds up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> tickets2020@…
>>>>>>>>>> tickets2021@…
>>>>>>>>>> tickets2022@…
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And thus you continue to twist the knife, appeasing vendors who
>>>>>>>>> externalise so much of the transactional admin to their customers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
>>>>>>>> with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No they don't, they simply don't buy the tickets in the first place, or
>>>>>>> if they do, have so little other email traffic that the other couple of
>>>>>>> hundred emails a day which serious email users receive, don't swamp
>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Evidence, please.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apart from the salami-slicing I described in a posting a few minutes
>>>>> ago, I just don't see that many people waving PDFs (of any kind) at
>>>>> gates and grippers.
>>>>
>>>> On the relatively few times I’ve been on trains in the last couple
>>>> of years
>>>> I can echo other posters’ experience that a significant number of other
>>>> passengers wave phones at grippers and gates. I can’t tell if what they
>>>> are displaying are PDFs, if that’s what’s important to you.
>>>> In-app wallets
>>>> might contain, PDFs, of course.
>>>
>>> Of a train with perhaps 200 people on it, how many? And are these
>>> largely inner suburban, outer suburban, or intercity-style trains?
>>
>> I can’t really help you here, but I see other contributors have answered.
>> FTR in the last two years or so I have been on the following trains that I
>> can remember:
>>
>> Edinburgh-Newcastle LNER
>> Berwick-on-Tweed-Edinburgh LNER
>> Edinburgh-Glasgow-Ardrossan and return ScotRail
>> Norwich-Ely-King’s Lynn GA/GN
>> North Berwick-Edinburgh ScotRail
>> Edinburgh-Glasgow and return ScotRail
>>
>> I don’t remember proportions on each journey, but there were enough people
>> using phones to be noticeable. I used paper tickets on every journey
>> (though arriving from N Berwick I obtained the ticket at my destination!).
>
> I wonder how many were using the phone because they wanted to, rather
> than being forced into it because the TVM was broken?

For that to be an issue we’d have to know how many intended to buy tickets
from a TVM and how many of those TVMs were not working. All the stations I
bought tickets at were staffed and either I bought the tickets on line (the
Newcastle/Berwick trip) or I used the TVM. I’ve just remembered there were
also some Edinburgh-Prestonpans or vice versa trips; again TVMs worked. In
my own recent experience (~5 years or more) I think I’ve only ever come
across a single broken TVM and I had time to report that - it gave up the
ghost while I was using it - and used the machine next to it.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spvic7$hp1$3@dont-email.me>, at 16:05:27 on Wed, 22 Dec
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sput7s$5si$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:04:43 on Wed, 22 Dec
>>> 2021, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec >
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>>
>>>>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>>>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>>>>> with the volume.
>>>
>>>>> ×Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use
>>>>> thetechnology that allows it work.
>>>>> ×Sam (single email account, multiple addresses, 58 folders, all accessible
>>>>> from phone, tablet and desktop)
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, Roland's problems with technology really are quite remarkable.
>>>
>>> I don't have problems with technology. I have problems with
>>> inappropriate technology. Trying to make phones a one-size-fits-all
>>> solution for IT needs is just bizarre.
>>
>> For you.
>>
>> Not for anyone under 40.
>
> I remain unconvinced an under-40 can receive and edit a 20 page Word
> document on a phone. At least, within a shadow of the time it could be
> done on a desktop.

Your one-size-fits-all jibe is a straw man, Roland. Most people would
agree that a phone is not a suitable technology for editing a document, but
if they needed to do that they’d use a desktop, laptop or large tablet.
They’d have that with them if they needed to do that job, but the phone
would be viable as for the pager element that you seem to like, and
probably for a quick review of the document to check what work was needed.

FWIW I read a 5-page PDF Christmas letter from NZ on my phone in bed this
morning. It was no hardship at all.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spvmu5$n7a$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:23:18 on Wed, 22 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>>>
>>>> IMX all those are emailed. I don't think random museums, farm parks and
>>>> MailRail tend to have their own apps…
>>>
>>> But the booking agencies used by some "attractions" do.
>>>
>>> And our local movie theatre (Cineworld) has an app.
>>
>> But you don’t have to use it - my last cinema trip was to a Cineworld and
>> an email with embedded QR code worked fine. I’ve not investigated how the
>> QR code was embedded.
>
> The proposition was that booking apps can, and do, use in-app delivery.
> I've given this example.
>
>>> Most recent review: "This app deserves 0 stars but fortunately for its
>>> creaters, that's not an option."
>>>
>>> However it does appear to have in-app tickets:
>>>
>>> <https://play-lh.googleusercontent.com/M1jjc5QrL6zFW8o-QJ8f5MxgoyfVxyjh
>>> ZXz0Z6R9FufLHGGNVBLpsDgGEGEsJuL2AHk=w1050-h1567>
>>>
>>> Shame that phone's only got 14% battery left, I hope it lasts until they
>>> get to the cinema.
>>
>> Given that the image is (allegedly) taken at 17:10 but the film doesn’t
>> start until 11am, perhaps they’ll do what most people do and charge the
>> phone in the intervening 18 hours.
>
> On my local Facebook group today there's someone who has lost their
> iPhone at the station, or on the train (they don't know which, but it
> could also have been pick-pocketed). Turns out they can't locate it or
> do all the other clever iCloud stuff [which is what people immediately
> suggest], because they know the phone's battery was dead before they
> misplaced it.

Which is a complete tangent, right?

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 22/12/2021 17:32, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <spvmu5$n7a$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:23:18 on Wed, 22 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>>>
>>>> IMX all those are emailed. I don't think random museums, farm parks and
>>>> MailRail tend to have their own apps…
>>>
>>> But the booking agencies used by some "attractions" do.
>>>
>>> And our local movie theatre (Cineworld) has an app.
>>
>> But you don’t have to use it - my last cinema trip was to a Cineworld and
>> an email with embedded QR code worked fine.  I’ve not investigated how
>> the
>> QR code was embedded.
>
> The proposition was that booking apps can, and do, use in-app delivery.
> I've given this example.
>
>>> Most recent review: "This app deserves 0 stars but fortunately for its
>>> creaters, that's not an option."
>>>
>>> However it does appear to have in-app tickets:
>>>
>>>  <https://play-lh.googleusercontent.com/M1jjc5QrL6zFW8o-QJ8f5MxgoyfVxyjh
>>> ZXz0Z6R9FufLHGGNVBLpsDgGEGEsJuL2AHk=w1050-h1567>
>>>
>>> Shame that phone's only got 14% battery left, I hope it lasts until they
>>> get to the cinema.
>>
>> Given that the image is (allegedly) taken at 17:10 but the film doesn’t
>> start until 11am, perhaps they’ll do what most people do and charge the
>> phone in the intervening 18 hours.
>
> On my local Facebook group today there's someone who has lost their
> iPhone at the station, or on the train (they don't know which, but it
> could also have been pick-pocketed). Turns out they can't locate it or
> do all the other clever iCloud stuff [which is what people immediately
> suggest], because they know the phone's battery was dead before they
> misplaced it.

So they are stupid as well as clumsy. There is no excuse in this day and
age for having a phone with your ticket on and letting the battery go
flat. That probably qualifies as the second oldest excuse in the book
for the average gripper. (After the dog ate my ticket).

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <spvic6$hp1$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:05:26 on Wed, 22 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <bd22sgl713e0nlpurdh28n3s6edhpc9vee@4ax.com>, at 22:59:11 on
>> Mon, 20 Dec 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>> remarked:
>>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:33:06 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <spnngq$5d4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:44:09 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>> On 19/12/2021 16:08, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spng2v$hlh$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:37:19 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I said, I don't regularly use Tesco. In other shops, and I'm
>>>>>>>> sure in
>>>>>>>> Tesco of old, such yellow price labels highlighted a deal available to
>>>>>>>> everyone. Particularly as the big wording shouts "MEAL DEAL" (/etc)
>>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>>> "for clubcard holders" is in much smaller print.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Back to my example of the Tesco scam deal for club card holders.
>>>>>>>Taylor’s
>>>>>>> port, £15, £10 for club card holders. I’ve since discovered
>>>>>>>port is
>>>>>>> £10 in Morrisons.

>>>>>> That appears to be a current promotional offer (Xmas perhaps, I'm
>>>>>> told it's coming up).
>>>>>> Sainsbury's has it at £10 - "£5 off".
>>>>>> Waitrose £10.50 ("was £15.75") <<- never knowingly over-sold.
>>>>>> Asda £11 ("was £15")
>>>>>> But Morrisons.com wins: £9 ("was £15")
>>>>>> You were robbed, buying it for a tenner in one of their stores.
>>>>>> ps Tesco.com £10, Clubcard price, £15 everyone else.
>>>>>> What I hope we can agree on, though, is the wide agreement that the
>>>>>> normal price is £15. And perhaps one shouldn't ever buy it the rest
>>>>>> of the year.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't agree.
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's price is about £10 in all stores except Tesco. Today's price
>>>>> in Tesco is £15 unless you happen to have a clubcard on you.
>>>>
>>>> Surely everyone has a Clubcard on their phone?
>>>>
>>> No, it is on a key ring with the others*. Total memory used = nil.
>>>
>>> *Except Lidl which takes up 134Mb and is probably an early choice for
>>> dumping if/when any memory needs to be freed.
>>
>> Doesn't everyone have a 32GB phone?
>
>No, most people have much more.

Even better. So 134MB is insignificant. Next contestant please!
--
Roland Perry

In message <spvnvo$vi4$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:41:13 on Wed, 22 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:

>>>>> Indeed, Roland's problems with technology really are quite remarkable.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have problems with technology. I have problems with
>>>> inappropriate technology. Trying to make phones a one-size-fits-all
>>>> solution for IT needs is just bizarre.
>>>
>>> For you.
>>>
>>> Not for anyone under 40.
>>
>> I remain unconvinced an under-40 can receive and edit a 20 page Word
>> document on a phone. At least, within a shadow of the time it could be
>> done on a desktop.
>
>Your one-size-fits-all jibe is a straw man, Roland. Most people would
>agree that a phone is not a suitable technology for editing a document, but
>if they needed to do that they’d use a desktop, laptop or large tablet.

In that case you need to talk to recliner, who thinks I alone have
problems with technology, specifically using phones (for things that
maybe we are coming to the conclusion that almost everyone but him
thinks they are unsuitable for).
--
Roland Perry

In message <spvnue$tgl$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:40:30 on Wed, 22 Dec
2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 22/12/2021 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <spvic7$hp1$3@dont-email.me>, at 16:05:27 on Wed, 22 Dec
>>2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sput7s$5si$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:04:43 on Wed, 22 Dec
>>>> 2021, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec >
>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>>>
>>>>>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>>>>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>>>>>> with the volume.
>>>>
>>>>>> ×Of course it works on a sodding phone!  You just choose not to use
>>>>>> thetechnology that allows it work.
>>>>>> ×Sam (single email account, multiple addresses, 58 folders, all
>>>>>>accessible
>>>>>> from phone, tablet and desktop)
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, Roland's problems with technology really are quite remarkable.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have problems with technology. I have problems with
>>>> inappropriate technology. Trying to make phones a one-size-fits-all
>>>> solution for IT needs is just bizarre.
>>>
>>> For you.
>>>
>>> Not for anyone under 40.

>> I remain unconvinced an under-40 can receive and edit a 20 page Word
>>document on a phone. At least, within a shadow of the time it could be
>>done on a desktop.
>
>Though they probably could, why would they want to? How many train
>tickets run to 20 pages?

Do try to keep up!

"One-size-fits-all solution for IT needs", of which editing and sending
back Word documents is but one example.
--
Roland Perry

On 22/12/2021 18:07, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <spvnue$tgl$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:40:30 on Wed, 22 Dec
> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 22/12/2021 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <spvic7$hp1$3@dont-email.me>, at 16:05:27 on Wed, 22 Dec
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <sput7s$5si$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:04:43 on Wed, 22 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18
>>>>>>> Dec >
>>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>>>>>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>>>>>>> with the volume.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ×Of course it works on a sodding phone!  You just choose not to use
>>>>>>> thetechnology that allows it work.
>>>>>>> ×Sam (single email account, multiple addresses, 58 folders, all
>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>> from phone, tablet and desktop)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, Roland's problems with technology really are quite
>>>>>> remarkable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have problems with technology. I have problems with
>>>>> inappropriate technology. Trying to make phones a one-size-fits-all
>>>>> solution for IT needs is just bizarre.
>>>>
>>>> For you.
>>>>
>>>> Not for anyone under 40.
>
>>>  I remain unconvinced an under-40 can receive and edit a 20 page Word
>>> document on a phone. At least, within a shadow of the time it could
>>> be done on a desktop.
>>
>> Though they probably could, why would they want to? How many train
>> tickets run to 20 pages?
>
> Do try to keep up!
>
> "One-size-fits-all solution for IT needs", of which editing and sending
> back Word documents is but one example.

No one but you expects a one size fits all solution.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:10:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <spvnvo$vi4$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:41:13 on Wed, 22 Dec
>2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>Your one-size-fits-all jibe is a straw man, Roland. Most people would
>>agree that a phone is not a suitable technology for editing a document, but
>>if they needed to do that they’d use a desktop, laptop or large tablet.
>
>In that case you need to talk to recliner, who thinks I alone have
>problems with technology, specifically using phones (for things that
>maybe we are coming to the conclusion that almost everyone but him
>thinks they are unsuitable for).

I don't think that a phone is a suitable device for a lot of the work I
do, including editing documents, writing code and engaging in a detailed
email conversation. But it is perfectly suitable as a means of receiving
and displaying an emailed PDF which acts as an e-ticket. And that's the
scenario under discussion here.

Mark

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:10:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <spvnvo$vi4$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:41:13 on Wed, 22 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> Your one-size-fits-all jibe is a straw man, Roland. Most people would
>>> agree that a phone is not a suitable technology for editing a document, but
>>> if they needed to do that they’d use a desktop, laptop or large tablet.
>>
>> In that case you need to talk to recliner, who thinks I alone have
>> problems with technology, specifically using phones (for things that
>> maybe we are coming to the conclusion that almost everyone but him
>> thinks they are unsuitable for).
>
> I don't think that a phone is a suitable device for a lot of the work I
> do, including editing documents, writing code and engaging in a detailed
> email conversation. But it is perfectly suitable as a means of receiving
> and displaying an emailed PDF which acts as an e-ticket. And that's the
> scenario under discussion here.
>
> Mark
>

Not a single person other than Roland has suggested using a phone to read
or edit long documents. Specifically Recliner hasn’t suggested this. My
phone’s not suitable for baking a cake either, but it doesn’t stop me using
it for ticketing.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spvmu5$n7a$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:23:17 on Wed, 22 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spt2o7$5ua$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:26:31 on Tue, 21 Dec
>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spq6ak$ui$4@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:08 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you
>>>>>>>>>>> think set
>>>>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what
>>>>>>>> percentage of
>>>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email
>>>>>>>> addresses
>>>>>>>> for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
>>>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now
>>>>>>>> going to claim
>>>>>>>> that none of them buy anything online?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sure loads of them buy things online, but they don't often involve a
>>>>>>> fulfilment process that requires them to present a barcode to the
>>>>>>> merchant (or even the delivery man).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And even when they do, it's probably not on-the-hoof minutes after
>>>>>>> having placed the order, thus requiring the barcode to be on their
>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet for those things which do require the emailed barcode to be shown
>>>>>> (theatre, museum, zoo, farm park etc) I'd suggest that the
>>>>>> majority will be
>>>>>> quite successfully shown on phones.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>>>
>>>> When are you going to accept that most people just don’t care which it is?
>>>
>>> When there's some evidence that they are happy to be forced into using a
>>> phone app to email them a pdf, because the TVM at their departure
>>> station is unexpectedly broken.
>>
>> I’m sorry, but I can’t see the train of thought between your previous
>> paragraph (apps good, email PDFs bad) and this comment. I’m suggesting
>> that most people, unlike you, don’t seem to care whether the ticket is
>> in-app or an emailed PDF. I don’t know where the idea of the app emailing
>> a PDF comes from.
>
> Because many apps email a PDF, which is then fiddly to find and display.
> At the very least, involving having a suitably fettled email client on
> the phone, as well as having the train app. Why can't they just push the
> ticket to the train app?

Because Luddites like you would then complain that they couldn't store and
print it on their desktop PCs.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spvic7$hp1$3@dont-email.me>, at 16:05:27 on Wed, 22 Dec
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sput7s$5si$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:04:43 on Wed, 22 Dec
>>> 2021, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec >
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>>
>>>>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>>>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>>>>> with the volume.
>>>
>>>>> ×Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use
>>>>> thetechnology that allows it work.
>>>>> ×Sam (single email account, multiple addresses, 58 folders, all accessible
>>>>> from phone, tablet and desktop)
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, Roland's problems with technology really are quite remarkable.
>>>
>>> I don't have problems with technology. I have problems with
>>> inappropriate technology. Trying to make phones a one-size-fits-all
>>> solution for IT needs is just bizarre.
>>
>> For you.
>>
>> Not for anyone under 40.
>
> I remain unconvinced an under-40 can receive and edit a 20 page Word
> document on a phone. At least, within a shadow of the time it could be
> done on a desktop.

Nobody's
Suggesting
That
A
Phone
Should
Be
Your
Only
Access
To
Email
!!!
🤦🏻‍♂️

But most people seem able to access their email with equal convenience on
either phone or computer.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spvmu5$n7a$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:23:18 on Wed, 22 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>>>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>>>>
>>>>> IMX all those are emailed. I don't think random museums, farm parks and
>>>>> MailRail tend to have their own apps…
>>>>
>>>> But the booking agencies used by some "attractions" do.
>>>>
>>>> And our local movie theatre (Cineworld) has an app.
>>>
>>> But you don’t have to use it - my last cinema trip was to a Cineworld and
>>> an email with embedded QR code worked fine. I’ve not investigated how the
>>> QR code was embedded.
>>
>> The proposition was that booking apps can, and do, use in-app delivery.
>> I've given this example.
>>
>>>> Most recent review: "This app deserves 0 stars but fortunately for its
>>>> creaters, that's not an option."
>>>>
>>>> However it does appear to have in-app tickets:
>>>>
>>>> <https://play-lh.googleusercontent.com/M1jjc5QrL6zFW8o-QJ8f5MxgoyfVxyjh
>>>> ZXz0Z6R9FufLHGGNVBLpsDgGEGEsJuL2AHk=w1050-h1567>
>>>>
>>>> Shame that phone's only got 14% battery left, I hope it lasts until they
>>>> get to the cinema.
>>>
>>> Given that the image is (allegedly) taken at 17:10 but the film doesn’t
>>> start until 11am, perhaps they’ll do what most people do and charge the
>>> phone in the intervening 18 hours.
>>
>> On my local Facebook group today there's someone who has lost their
>> iPhone at the station, or on the train (they don't know which, but it
>> could also have been pick-pocketed). Turns out they can't locate it or
>> do all the other clever iCloud stuff [which is what people immediately
>> suggest], because they know the phone's battery was dead before they
>> misplaced it.
>
> Which is a complete tangent, right?
>

Nobody's ever lost a paper ticket. Ever. In the history of railways.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spvmu5$n7a$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:23:18 on Wed, 22 Dec
>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>>>>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMX all those are emailed. I don't think random museums, farm parks and
>>>>>> MailRail tend to have their own apps…
>>>>>
>>>>> But the booking agencies used by some "attractions" do.
>>>>>
>>>>> And our local movie theatre (Cineworld) has an app.
>>>>
>>>> But you don’t have to use it - my last cinema trip was to a Cineworld and
>>>> an email with embedded QR code worked fine. I’ve not investigated how the
>>>> QR code was embedded.
>>>
>>> The proposition was that booking apps can, and do, use in-app delivery.
>>> I've given this example.
>>>
>>>>> Most recent review: "This app deserves 0 stars but fortunately for its
>>>>> creaters, that's not an option."
>>>>>
>>>>> However it does appear to have in-app tickets:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://play-lh.googleusercontent.com/M1jjc5QrL6zFW8o-QJ8f5MxgoyfVxyjh
>>>>> ZXz0Z6R9FufLHGGNVBLpsDgGEGEsJuL2AHk=w1050-h1567>
>>>>>
>>>>> Shame that phone's only got 14% battery left, I hope it lasts until they
>>>>> get to the cinema.
>>>>
>>>> Given that the image is (allegedly) taken at 17:10 but the film doesn’t
>>>> start until 11am, perhaps they’ll do what most people do and charge the
>>>> phone in the intervening 18 hours.
>>>
>>> On my local Facebook group today there's someone who has lost their
>>> iPhone at the station, or on the train (they don't know which, but it
>>> could also have been pick-pocketed). Turns out they can't locate it or
>>> do all the other clever iCloud stuff [which is what people immediately
>>> suggest], because they know the phone's battery was dead before they
>>> misplaced it.
>>
>> Which is a complete tangent, right?
>>
>
> Nobody's ever lost a paper ticket. Ever. In the history of railways.

Once, a long time ago, I left my wallet, with my ticket in it, on the train
when I changed at Preston. The BTP phoned ahead to Warrington and the
guard found it there and got it sent to Manchester Victoria, where I picked
it up the next day. The staff at Preston gave me a pass to get to
Manchester in the mean time.

I also once left tickets on the buffet table at Bridlington (beautiful
station, Bridlington) and the guard got in touch with the station, who gave
the tickets to the guard of the next train and we picked them up from her
at Hull.

Of course I knew where the tickets were the whole time so they were never
actually lost, thus proving your point.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
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