In message <sov3tp$lb5$4@dont-email.me>, at 08:42:33 on Fri, 10 Dec
2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 10/12/2021 07:44, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <sotfh6$9no$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:48:22 on Thu, 9 Dec
>>2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>>  My oldest Gmail account goes back to googlemail days as well. But
>>>>the  oldest email in the account is dated 2007, so not as old as yours.
>>>
>>> As I was with Demon[1] then I had no need of gmail at the time, I
>>>could have as many mailboxes as I wanted. I still only use gmail as a
>>>source of throwaway addresses to log into pub wifi and similar

>> It's normally the case that Google locks their users into having
>>Gmail accounts for Android phones so comprehensively it's not worth
>>the effort to try to resist the borg.
>
>Yet another reason not to have an Android phone.

There are even more reasons not to have an iPhone. So that only leaves
Windows phones. And we know what happened to them!

>> For example when submitting photos to Google Maps, or giving
>>restaurant reviews. At least they contact you pretty much in-app,
>>rather than emailing you a PDF to fill in and return.
>
>Neither of which I'm in the habit of doing. Google make enough money
>without me donating my meagre efforts to the cause.

I benefit from crowd-sourced reputation building, and am not selfish
enough to refuse to contribute something back from time to time.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sov4sv$sjk$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:59:11 on Fri, 10 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sotsl1$8hv$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:32:17 on Thu, 9 Dec 2021,
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 19:17:24 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <soko3p$ccm$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:19:37 on Mon, 6 Dec 2021,
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 06/12/2021 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <sog0jr$k1t$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:14:03 on Sat, 4 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There’s also nothing to stop you having an entirely different email
>>>>>>>> account, with a separate inbox for tickets. Most email clients handle
>>>>>>>> multiple accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's something which doesn't scale on phones. I've tried this,
>>>>>>> specifically the last time this subject cropped up. And beyond about a
>>>>>>> dozen it gets unmanageable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't need a dozen, just one for tickets.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of all the transactions I might want to do on a phone, what gives trains
>>>>> companies the right to make such unique demands. (btw, the "dozen" is
>>>>> the number of TOCs I might use).
>>>>
>>>> You can have accounts with a dozen different TOCs using the same email
>>>> address. So you only need one additional email account. That's better,
>>>> surely, than needing a dozen different apps.
>>>
>>> I’ve not been down the e-ticket buying route of late, but can’t you just
>>> buy your tickets from one TOC regardless of the TOC used? Why the need for
>>> multiple apps? The Trainline seems popular with my iPhone toting offspring.
>>
>> The main reason is that interoperability is limited. With the only
>> common denominator that they'll provide pickup at any TVM.
>>
>> And this thread is mainly about what happens when the TVM is broken,
>> dear Liza.
>>
>No, the point is if you are willing to engage with the appropriate means of
>getting an electronic ticket you don’t need to even worry about the
>existence of a TVM, working or not.

And the problem is, electronic ticketing is very patchy, and based on my
experience the last couple of days (see elsewhere) is still not fit for
purpose.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sov2qn$eb4$6@dont-email.me>, at 08:23:51 on Fri, 10 Dec
2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 09/12/2021 19:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec
>>2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>>  If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>might,  just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>hundred, it's a  bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>this week to expect  me to bend over backwards for *their* convenience.
>>
>>>>  Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could
>>>>be bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide
>>>>PERTIS machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last
>>>>minute using their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car
>>>>park, on pain of a £100 fine.
>>>
>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally
>>>if it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got
>>>out of the car.

>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>
>Doesn't stop you going back to the car to get out f the rain or even
>sheltering under the station canopy while you order the ticket. No need
>to stand in the rain.

The car is parked at least a hundred yards away, the station has no
canopy, and the train is due in five minutes (which would be plenty of
time to buy a ticket from a working TVM).

--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 07:45:54 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <sp2683$1uiu$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 12:40:37 on Sat, 11 Dec
>2021, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>I've discovered this wonderful invention called a phone whereby you can
>>actually speak to someone rather than converse in 2 line snippets, which lets
>>face it , is a way people "keep in touch" when they really don't want to be
>>bothered to actually do so.
>
>WhatsApp is free, which is good for international calls, and also does
>video calls, and group (conference) calls. The people you are messaging

So do a boatload of apps without having to sign up to facebooks T&Cs.

>don't have to be awake, or able to take a call, if you are messaging
>them.

And how does that differ from email?

>>As for work - we use email and slack because they work on a PC. But then you
>>can probably do what little work is involved with your wafflefest non job in a
>
>>few lines of text every hour or so.
>
>I thought we were discussing keeping in touch with "mates"?

You invariably bring your job into the discussion so thought I'd pre-empt.

In message <sov54s$urt$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:03:24 on Fri, 10 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sotnpl$664$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:09:25 on Thu, 9 Dec 2021,
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec 2021,
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>>> might, just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>>> hundred, it's a bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>>> this week to expect me to bend over backwards for *their* convenience.
>>>>
>>>>>> Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could be
>>>>>> bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide PERTIS
>>>>>> machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last minute using
>>>>>> their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car park, on pain of a
>>>>>> £100 fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally if
>>>>> it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got out of
>>>>> the car.
>>>>
>>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>>
>>> If you buy your tickets at home/in the car it really doesn’t matter if the
>>> TVM is working or not.
>>
>> Only if the flow actually *has* e-tickets available.
>>
>> But you've lost track of the reason for this debate: it's the
>> circumstances that you arrive at the station to find that the TVM you
>> wanted to buy a paper ticket from is broken, and next to it is a big
>> hectoring sign all abut £100 fines for travelling without a ticket.
>>
>> With one of the most common rail tickets I buy being £1.90, it's really
>> not proportionate to be ordering them in advance from home.
>>
>> What would be your reaction when boarding a bus if the driver said
>> "sorry, my ticket machine is broken, you must go back home and buy a
>> ticket there first". (And of course the next bus isn't until an hour
>> later).
>
>My reaction would be I don’t need to even contemplate the bus driver’s
>broken ticket machine, because I’ve tapped on, or I’ve purchased a ticket
>on my phone. Even here in the East Midlands we’ve done away with the need
>to buy tickets on the bus.

I've had a Nottingham City Transport smartcard since perhaps 2004. It's
brilliant. But that's an isolated example, that most other transport
organisations seem unable to emulate.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sov5ho$27d$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:10:16 on Fri, 10 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 09/12/2021 19:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec 2021,
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>  If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>> might,  just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>> hundred, it's a  bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>> this week to expect  me to bend over backwards for *their* convenience.
>>>
>>>>>  Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could be
>>>>> bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide PERTIS
>>>>> machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last minute
>>>>> using their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car park, on
>>>>> pain of a £100 fine.
>>>>
>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally if
>>>> it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got out
>>>> of the car.
>>>
>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>
>> Doesn't stop you going back to the car to get out f the rain or even
>> sheltering under the station canopy while you order the ticket. No need
>> to stand in the rain.
>
>The real point is that once you can cope with buying electronic tickets,
>which seems to be Roland’s problem, you don’t need to worry about the
>existence of a TVM, rain or no rain.

The problem is the patchy nature of e-ticketing.

>So far his arguments have been that he doesn’t like the apps (excuses
>various), so folk have suggested he uses the emailed pdf, which then
>generates a long list of spurious reasons why that’s not workable either.

The reasons aren't spurious, and only arise because the e-ticketing
platform is unable (by design) to deliver the tickets to my phone by a
less last-century method.

Or as I've found out the last couple of days, unable to deliver them at
all. ["We've emailed you the PDF" - panto 'oh no you haven't']
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sov2qn$eb4$6@dont-email.me>, at 08:23:51 on Fri, 10 Dec
> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 09/12/2021 19:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec
>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>  If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>> might,  just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>> hundred, it's a  bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>> this week to expect  me to bend over backwards for *their* convenience.
>>>
>>>>>  Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could
>>>>> be bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide
>>>>> PERTIS machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last
>>>>> minute using their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car
>>>>> park, on pain of a £100 fine.
>>>>
>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally
>>>> if it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got
>>>> out of the car.
>
>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>
>> Doesn't stop you going back to the car to get out f the rain or even
>> sheltering under the station canopy while you order the ticket. No need
>> to stand in the rain.
>
> The car is parked at least a hundred yards away, the station has no
> canopy, and the train is due in five minutes (which would be plenty of
> time to buy a ticket from a working TVM).
>

Won’t you get wet using the TVM?

In message <sp7pqc$19tb$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:45:16 on Mon, 13 Dec
2021, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 07:45:54 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <sp2683$1uiu$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 12:40:37 on Sat, 11 Dec
>>2021, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>I've discovered this wonderful invention called a phone whereby you can
>>>actually speak to someone rather than converse in 2 line snippets, which lets
>>>face it , is a way people "keep in touch" when they really don't want to be
>>>bothered to actually do so.
>>
>>WhatsApp is free, which is good for international calls, and also does
>>video calls, and group (conference) calls. The people you are messaging
>
>So do a boatload of apps without having to sign up to facebooks T&Cs.

The only one which comes close is Skype, and that's been part of the
Microsoft empire for years.

>>don't have to be awake, or able to take a call, if you are messaging
>>them.
>
>And how does that differ from email?

The seamless integration with multimedia.

>>>As for work - we use email and slack because they work on a PC. But then you
>>>can probably do what little work is involved with your wafflefest non
>>>job in a
>>
>>>few lines of text every hour or so.
>>
>>I thought we were discussing keeping in touch with "mates"?
>
>You invariably bring your job into the discussion so thought I'd pre-empt.

You have no idea what my job is, and the one you might think it is, I
retired from three years ago.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>
>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>> the top right hand corner.
>>
>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>> rather than closing the app.
>
>Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're making of this
>trivial, self-inflicted problem!

But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sp7qaj$6n7$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:53:56 on Mon, 13 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sov2qn$eb4$6@dont-email.me>, at 08:23:51 on Fri, 10 Dec
>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 09/12/2021 19:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec
>>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>  If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>>> might,  just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>>> hundred, it's a  bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>>> this week to expect  me to bend over backwards for *their* convenience.
>>>>
>>>>>>  Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could
>>>>>> be bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide
>>>>>> PERTIS machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last
>>>>>> minute using their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car
>>>>>> park, on pain of a £100 fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally
>>>>> if it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got
>>>>> out of the car.
>>
>>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>>
>>> Doesn't stop you going back to the car to get out f the rain or even
>>> sheltering under the station canopy while you order the ticket. No need
>>> to stand in the rain.
>>
>> The car is parked at least a hundred yards away, the station has no
>> canopy, and the train is due in five minutes (which would be plenty of
>> time to buy a ticket from a working TVM).
>
>Won’t you get wet using the TVM?

Yes, but only for about twenty seconds.
--
Roland Perry

On 13/12/2021 14:28, Nigel Emery wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> But
>> still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course once
>> again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>
> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
> the top right hand corner.

That sounds as if it's deliberately designed to mislead the user into
thinking that the only options are to log in or close the application.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>
>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>
>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>> rather than closing the app.
>>
>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're making of this
>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>
> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.

It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.

You just need to consult with your younger self who wouldn't have had any
such problems. Or is there some local pensioner support organisation who
can help you with your myriad technical problems?

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sov2hd$eb4$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:18:53 on Fri, 10 Dec
> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 10/12/2021 07:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <sotp1a$epk$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:30:33 on Thu, 9 Dec
>>> 2021, Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>>>> On 09/12/2021 17:57, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> On 09/12/2021 17:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <sosu8e$7ob$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:53:34 on Thu, 9 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 09/12/2021 11:30, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <soq8ge$qfh$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:06 on Wed, 8
>>>>>>>> Dec 2021,  Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 08/12/2021 11:45, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 11:14:01 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>>>>>>>>>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And of course the two CoOps near me are operated by
>>>>>>>>>>>> completely different
>>>>>>>>>>>> organisations, so we need two different cards etc etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting - we also have competing CoOps near us.
>>>>>>>>  Not very co-operative, is it!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  It's funny, I had no idea there were competing Co-Ops.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Historically, they started as separate Co-Ops for each town (or
>>>>>>>>> district) in Northern England, commencing in Rochdale. There was
>>>>>>>>> a "coming together" in, I think, the later years of the 20th
>>>>>>>>> Century,  but a further separation in more recent years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Ours are I think "Central England" vs the larger countrywide
>>>>>>>> one based  in Manchester.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Talking of which, back in the day there were many CoOp Building
>>>>>>>> Societies, but it wasn't well known that most were one-branch
>>>>>>>> affairs, which gave customers a false sense of security. After a
>>>>>>>> couple of the frailer ones went broke, and no-one to bail them
>>>>>>>> out, a regulator forced  them all to merge, to form a new organisation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  What name did they pick? Ironically the same as the Consumer
>>>>>>>> Affairs programme which exposed the issue: Nationwide.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was a long time ago! I thought the name was older than the
>>>>>>> programme.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think so. For whatever reason I used to watch it nearly
>>>>>> every  day, and this sequence of events played out.
>>>
>>>>>  I used to work on it, the downside of that is you don't actually
>>>>> take  much notice of the content. Also more than likely that I
>>>>> didn't work on  that episode.
>>>>
>>>> Off-topic even for us, but do you know how the digital clock behind the
>>>> Nationwide presenters was operated?  It always showed the right time
>>>> but, in years of careful watching, I never saw its Solari style digits
>>>> flip over to the next minute on-screen, which struck me as curious.
>>>> flip digits as [obrail] Solari board
>>> A school-friend of mine worked for BBC engineering, and was "in
>>> charge of digital clocks", so I might ask him. His pride and joy was
>>> the Ceefax clock, which was locked to Rugby (and completely custom
>>> built).
>>> I keep meaning to study the BBC Breakfast (etc) clocks in more
>>> detail to see how far off they are, especially as one of their Covid
>>> geeks has a digital clock on the wall behind him. I have two adjacent
>>> TVs, one on Freesat, the other on Freeview, and they are about two
>>> seconds apart.
>>
>> One has the signal travelling a lot further than the other. Add in he
>> digital delays on each tx chain (and rx chain) and you are going to get
>> noticeable variations between nominally the same stations.
>
> Doesn't superficially explain why the terrestrial version is lagging
> the satellite (although the explanation has to be the terrestrial
> transmitter is getting a satellite feed, and is adding in a decode/
> recode delay). It's about two seconds.

Are they the same model of TV/decoder? Do they have a PVR function that
might be intercepting the signal before displaying it? I’m not familiar
with digital TV or audio broadcasting but I do just about enough about
media streaming to be dangerous.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>
>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>> the top right hand corner.
>
> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
> rather than closing the app.

There’s a rather easy way to find out, isn’t there?

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sovdt9$qpk$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:32:57 on Fri, 10 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sotnpl$664$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:09:25 on Thu, 9 Dec 2021,
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec 2021,
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>>>> might, just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>>>> hundred, it's a bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>>>> this week to expect me to bend over backwards for *their* convenience.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could be
>>>>>>> bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide PERTIS
>>>>>>> machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last minute using
>>>>>>> their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car park, on pain of a
>>>>>>> £100 fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally if
>>>>>> it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got out of
>>>>>> the car.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>>>
>>>> If you buy your tickets at home/in the car it really doesn’t matter if the
>>>> TVM is working or not.
>>>
>>> Only if the flow actually *has* e-tickets available.
>>>
>>> But you've lost track of the reason for this debate: it's the
>>> circumstances that you arrive at the station to find that the TVM you
>>> wanted to buy a paper ticket from is broken, and next to it is a big
>>> hectoring sign all abut £100 fines for travelling without a ticket.
>>>
>>> With one of the most common rail tickets I buy being £1.90, it's really
>>> not proportionate to be ordering them in advance from home.
>>>
>>> What would be your reaction when boarding a bus if the driver said
>>> "sorry, my ticket machine is broken, you must go back home and buy a
>>> ticket there first". (And of course the next bus isn't until an hour
>>> later).
>>
>> Do you have any evidence that that’s what the TOC’s response would be if
>> you boarded the train without a ticket because the TVM was broken?
>
> It's not an equivalent situation…

So why on earth did you bring it up?

Sam

--
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Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sp7qaj$6n7$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:53:56 on Mon, 13 Dec
> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sov2qn$eb4$6@dont-email.me>, at 08:23:51 on Fri, 10 Dec
>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 09/12/2021 19:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>>>> might,  just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>>>> hundred, it's a  bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>>>> this week to expect  me to bend over backwards for *their* convenience.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could
>>>>>>> be bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide
>>>>>>> PERTIS machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last
>>>>>>> minute using their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car
>>>>>>> park, on pain of a £100 fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally
>>>>>> if it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got
>>>>>> out of the car.
>>>
>>>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't stop you going back to the car to get out f the rain or even
>>>> sheltering under the station canopy while you order the ticket. No need
>>>> to stand in the rain.
>>>
>>> The car is parked at least a hundred yards away, the station has no
>>> canopy, and the train is due in five minutes (which would be plenty of
>>> time to buy a ticket from a working TVM).
>>
>> Won’t you get wet using the TVM?
>
> Yes, but only for about twenty seconds.

No, you’ll get wet for the 5 minutes you’re waiting for the train. Next.

Sam

--
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Spit the dummy to reply

In message <sp7s4d$4jl$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:24:45 on Mon, 13 Dec
2021, Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>On 13/12/2021 14:28, Nigel Emery wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of
>>>course once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).

>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>> the top right hand corner.
>
>That sounds as if it's deliberately designed to mislead the user into
>thinking that the only options are to log in or close the application.

+1
--
Roland Perry

In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>
>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>
>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>
>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're making of this
>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>
>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>
>It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.

But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
the station to find the TVM broken.

Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
phone.

--
Roland Perry

In message <rv69rgpe4ss5rmfcq94bep7annpiefh12t@4ax.com>, at 13:05:15 on
Sat, 11 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
>On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 07:57:26 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <7ed7rghlh7i73th432mvlq6h2f1c9nrcaq@4ax.com>, at 20:22:08 on
>>Fri, 10 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>remarked:
>>
>>>The point about WhatsApp is that it's probably the second most widely
>>>used instant messaging system, after SMS. But, unlike SMS, it natively
>>>supports images and file transmission as well as simple text. As such,
>>>it would make a very good delivery mechanism for a PDF e-ticket.
>>
>>But the closed-user-group architecture makes it somewhat unsuitable for
>>receiving tickets from random vendors, rather than family/friends who
>>are forwarding one they bought for you.
>
>WhatsApp has an API, which can be used to send a message to any number
>registered with WhatsApp even if it isn't already known to you. So it
>can be integrated into an online retail environment in a way which
>allows a customer to supply their phone number and the system to then
>send a message via WhatsApp to that number. From a business perspective,
>this is a very useful means of communicating with customers as sending a
>WhatsApp message is free, unlike SMS. Plus, of course, you can send
>attachments, which you can't easily do with SMS. Abd unlike email and
>SMS, WhatsApp has a delivery feedback mechanism built in so you know if
>your message has reached the recipient.
>
>The downside, at the moment, is that access to the API is strictly
>controlled (which it has to be, in order to prevent spammers using it),
>and there are several hoops to jump through in order to get a Business
>WhatsApp Account and be eligible for the API. So there are not, yet,
>many organisations using it. But, in the long run, I expect it to become
>one of the primary means whereby businesses communicate with customers.

All of that might be why I have not yet encountered a single retailer
(etc) using that scheme. If any of them start doing it, they'll probably
lose me as a customer pretty quickly.
--
Roland Perry

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>
>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>> the top right hand corner.
>>
>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>> rather than closing the app.
>
> There’s a rather easy way to find out, isn’t there?
>

Roland's normal way of finding the answers to such baffling questions is to
demand the answers here.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sp0b4a$ro1$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:51:38 on Fri, 10 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sotl1l$i0q$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:22:29 on Thu, 9 Dec 2021,
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <ub84rg1q1cu4uqd19rfbjrsvs6u3u98a1u@4ax.com>, at 15:38:03 on
>>>>> Thu, 9 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 15:20:51 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <ul44rgh3pooqqimstcdg7bt0tv3npqfi12@4ax.com>, at 14:46:17 on
>>>>>>> Thu, 9 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 08:01:59 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In message <7jv1rg1f2lkcibd6kvd034ngclblc00730@4ax.com>, at 18:54:35 on
>>>>>>>>> Wed, 8 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 17:59:43 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>>>>>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Apple Mail even copes with corporate email. My privately owned
>>>>>>>>>>> phone can pick up the corporate mail from an Exchange server,
>>>>>>>>>>> and if they wish they can remote wipe the corporate email on my
>>>>>>>>>>> phone without affecting my private email boxes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Apple Mail and Gmail (the default mail app on Android pohones)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doesn't Samsung, which has a very large market share, have something
>>>>>>>>> slightly different as the default?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I haven't used it, but it appears to be a custom version of Gmail.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gmail is mainly a platform, not an app, although the two do commonly get
>>>>>>> conflated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gmail is both a platform and an app. The app can access both the
>>>>>> platform and other email providers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I haven't tried it, because I haven't felt the need to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have felt the need to try many such things because I think it's a bit
>>>>>>> rich to lecture people on what they should be using, if not from
>>>>>>> personal experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, my use case seems to be similar to yours (multiple email accounts
>>>>>> from different sources, several of which are high volume), so my
>>>>>> experience seems to me to be relevant.
>>>>>
>>>>> But how often do you read a hundred emails a day via Gmail on your
>>>>> phone?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gmail (on my phone) and Apple Mail (on my iPad) work fine for me. Both
>>>>>>>> of them support all the email accounts that I use. Looking at Spark on
>>>>>>>> Google Play, I see that it, too, can connect to Gmail, Exchange and
>>>>>>>> IMAP, and can handle multiple email accounts on the same device. It has
>>>>>>>> a few features which Gmail and Apple Mail don't have (such as the
>>>>>>>> ability to schedule email to be sent in the future), but none of them
>>>>>>>> look like the killer feature that would persuade me to switch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A killer feature could be along the lines of "how can it show me a
>>>>>>> display with a hundred or so waiting emails to pick from, on such a
>>>>>>> small screen"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think any mobile app could do that, unless you have exceptional
>>>>>> eyesight. The workaround is a good search system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is what Spark claims to be better at, but it's still a compromise
>>>>> when the train company is insisting on using 1992 technology to deliver
>>>>> train tickets, when there are numerous far better more modern ways to do
>>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Says the man who describes his email client as being on a par with a pager.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, the email client on one of my
>>> phones is so basic that all it's really doing is being a pager saying
>>> "an email has arrived, but you are really going to have to use a PC to
>>> read/reply".
>>
>> It seems more than a little ironic that you’re complaining about other
>> people using 1992 technology when part of your complaint is that you’re
>> effectively limited to even older technology.
>
> What's older about a smartphone and an Android app?

Your claim that they are basically emulating a pager, a technology
developed in the 1950s.

>>> I have no control over the phone, or the apps I'm allowed to use.
>>
>> Well, there’s your trouble.
>
> We are where we are. And I won't be the only passenger in the same
> circumstances.

Which just about makes you unique in present company.

>>> My other (personal) phone would be pinging constantly if all my email
>>> was directed towards it. On a rough estimate I have perhaps 500k in my
>>> email-iverse over the last ten years, so that's 50k a year, 200 per
>>> working day.
>>>
>>> On top of all the alerts for other things (Facebook postings in threads
>>> I'm interested in, Tweets from people I follow, etc etc) it would be
>>> wall to wall.
>>
>> Then configure the alert settings, for goodness’ sake!
>
> The alerts arise from swamping the phone with superfluous emails. I'm
> not aware of a way that Android allows the user to fine-tune alerts by
> filtering the stuff inside apps. Rather than saying "this app has
> received this one of many things, you are now alerted".

My phone has considerable customisation of notifications. It’s in the
settings section for Apps & notifications and there’s more in other places.
I’m on Android 10.

> Are you suggesting that I can set something in Android that only alerts
> me to emails arriving in gmail, that are from a specific shortlist of
> senders?

I don’t know. It’s not a feature set I use.

Sam

--
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Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>
>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're making of this
>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>
>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>
>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>
> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
> the station to find the TVM broken.
>
> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
> phone.
>

Why don’t you order the tickets in advance, eg when leaving home? Then it’s
irrelevant what the working status of the TVM is. Or do you randomly pass
the station and suddenly decide you want to make a trip?

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sp0kg0$seq$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:31:28 on Fri, 10 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sovdi3$o21$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:27:00 on Fri, 10 Dec
>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>> You’ll have noticed that I travelled by train through the Ely triangle in
>>>> September. We bought tickets from one of the bank of working TVMs in
>>>> Norwich and the tickets got us all the way to King’s Lynn,
>>>> changing at Ely.
>>>> Fortunately it wasn’t raining and we weren’t marooned in any car parks,
>>>> though some of the folks we were with wanted to travel on a train that was
>>>> cancelled. I guess we were the execptions that proved the rule.
>>>
>>> I'm very glad the TVMs worked for you, and the proof you've completely
>>> lost the plot, which is about the unsatisfactory nature of e-ticketing
>>> when TVMs you expected to use, aren't working.
>>>
>>> Or perhaps you do understand that, and are trying to create a
>>> smokescreen?
>>
>> No, I was riffing on the fanciful idea (which you’ve snipped) that there
>> might be an Ely triangle where modern technology fails to operate
>> correctly.
>
> My technology, or that installed by the train companies?

You’re our Ely correspondent and it’s mainly you who comments on the
difficulties. How would you characterise it?

Sam

--
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Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>
>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're making of this
>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>
>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>
>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>
> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
> the station to find the TVM broken.
>
> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
> phone.
>

However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
phone? Just about everyone else does.

In message <sp1oll$up4$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:48:53 on Sat, 11 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp1lu8$ejb$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:02:16 on Sat, 11 Dec
>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sp01g1$1nah$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 17:07:13 on Fri, 10 Dec
>>>> 2021, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 14:13:07 +0000
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <csk4rghk31luqbj54d6mbr93pge8ssj7jd@4ax.com>, at 19:09:15 on
>>>>>> Thu, 9 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 17:20:29 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In message <ub84rg1q1cu4uqd19rfbjrsvs6u3u98a1u@4ax.com>, at 15:38:03 on
>>>>>>>> Thu, 9 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, my use case seems to be similar to yours (multiple email
>>>>>>>>>accounts
>>>>>>>>> from different sources, several of which are high volume), so my
>>>>>>>>> experience seems to me to be relevant.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But how often do you read a hundred emails a day via Gmail on your
>>>>>>>> phone?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not very often, because my job is very office based so I rarely need to
>>>>>>> read large numbers of emails while out and about. Most of them can wait
>>>>>>> until I get back. But I don't have any real difficulty reading them when
>>>>>>> I do need to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which is what Spark claims to be better at, but it's still a compromise
>>>>>>>> when the train company is insisting on using 1992 technology to deliver
>>>>>>>> train tickets, when there are numerous far better more modern
>>>>>>>>ways to do
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Email is, at least, reasonably universal. I'm not a huge fan of having
>>>>>>> to install a different app for every service I use. Maybe TOCs could
>>>>>>> offer ticket delivery via WhatsApp.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Something less century than PDF, anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> PDFs work everywhere.
>>>>
>>>> Sadly not, you need a PDF viewer installed, and often the one shoving
>>>> itself to the head of the queue is Adobe, and they demand you "sign in
>>>> with your Facebook password". No thanks.
>>>>
>>>>> Not everyone has WhatsCrap or similar social media nonsense installed.
>>>>
>>>> I think you'll find almost everyone with a smartphone, does.
>>>>
>>>> But I'm not advocating that rail e-tickets are sent via WhatsApp,
>>>> because its closed-user-group architecture[1] makes it fundamentally
>>>> unsuitable.
>>>>
>>>> What they need to embrace is one of the "wallet" push-technologies that
>>>> some, but not yet a critical mass of, other ticket vendors use.
>>>>
>>>> [1] Making it a killer-app for many less technically able users.
>>>
>>> Are you Android users saying that the supplied web browser doesn’t support
>>> viewing pdfs?
>>
>> What I'm saying is that the email app, when asked to display a PDF
>> attachment, launches Adobe viewer, which it appears I'm not the only
>> person unwilling to sign-in-to.
>>
>> I can't see a "setting" in the email app to launch a browser instead.
>
>None of this is convincing me that I’ve overpaid to have an iPhone.

Even if I was prepared to double the cost of the tickets I'm buying, by
paying Church-of-Jobs tax, to make it more convenient to jump through
the hoops imposed by these ticket retailers, it would amount to perhaps
twenty pounds a year. What iPhone is available for that little more than
an Android?

>I’ve just double checked with a test - a pdf email attachment opens
>within the AppleMail email client, no Adobe tools required. I then have
>the option of sending the file elsewhere to preserve it. Apple Books is
>my favourite place, as,it archives pdfs in their own area. If it were
>to be an e-ticket things would be configured by the sender to allow the
>ticket to go to my Apple Wallet.
>
>Obviously I’m only seeing this through the prism of, mainly Roland’s,
>second hand reports. However it seems that Android has useability issues.

The usability issue is why the train company is not sending the tickets
I've been buying [for their trains, between their stations] to its own
app's wallet. (I note no-one is prepared to address this fundamental
issue, perhaps because they know they have no answer).

And as a secondary thing, why tickets for different flows have different
delivery options.
--
Roland Perry