In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the machine is
>>>> broken I often saw them taking a photo with their phone (no, m-tickets
>>>
>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>
>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return e-ticket,
>>> for example).
>>
>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>
>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>
>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>> network by about four years ago].
>>
>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>
>What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?

This was discussed at great length a few months ago.

Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
associated with it.

And then you have to poke around the phone to find the attachment.

My work phone doesn't even have a PDF viewer on it (although that may be
unusual, it's apparently the default for the organisation who have lent
it to me).
--
Roland Perry

On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>> machine is
>>>>> broken I often saw them taking a photo with their phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>
>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>
>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>> e-ticket,
>>>> for example).
>>>
>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>
>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>
>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>
>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>
>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>
> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>
> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
> associated with it.

And that is a problem how?

>
> And then you have to poke around the phone to find the attachment.

Any decent email client will show it to you a an attachment that you
may have to click on.

>
> My work phone doesn't even have a PDF viewer on it (although that may be
> unusual, it's apparently the default for the organisation who have lent
> it to me).

You have no phones of your own that you could use?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <socvtm$nti$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:43:50 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec
>>2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>machine is broken I often saw them taking a photo with their
>>>>>>phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>
>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>
>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>e-ticket, for example).
>>>>
>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>
>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>
>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>
>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>
>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?

>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>associated with it.
>
>And that is a problem how?

Because the accounts I have with ticket booking sites are currently
associated with email addresses which are delivered to my desktop, not
my phone.

>> And then you have to poke around the phone to find the attachment.
>
>Any decent email client will show it to you a an attachment that you
>may have to click on.

Last time this came up, I was persuaded to test this "oops, ticket
machine broken, I've now got five minutes in the pouring rain in the
station car park to dig out a mobile phone and buy a ticket with that
instead" scenario, using a recommended email app [Spark] which gives a
filtered view of my gmail account (but which isn't the one I have
registered with the ticket-buying sites).

While the filtering worked, the test purchase I made to that email
address, had this text in the email from the TOC:

"Please use Adobe Acrobat to open and print these tickets. If
you do not have Adobe Acrobat, you must download it by
<clicking here>"

And the email client, if I click on the attachments, does launch
Acrobat; but that then requires me to sign in, and I don't have an Adobe
account, nor do I want to tell Adobe my Facebook sign-in credentials
(which are an alternative).

It's still raining, and now I only have one minute left.

>> My work phone doesn't even have a PDF viewer on it (although that
>>may be unusual, it's apparently the default for the organisation who
>>have lent it to me).
>
>You have no phones of your own that you could use?

I do, but I'm addressing the idea that "all phones have pdf viewers on
them", which is clearly not the case.

ps Remember that only two of the three tickets I tried earlier even have
the PDF option. I didn't pick edge cases, just ones I would be likely
to want to buy.
--
Roland Perry

On 03/12/2021 12:25, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <socvtm$nti$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:43:50 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec
>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>> machine is broken I often saw them taking a photo with their
>>>>>>> phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>> e-ticket, for example).
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>
>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>
>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>
>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>
>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>> associated with it.
>>
>> And that is a problem how?
>
> Because the accounts I have with ticket booking sites are currently
> associated with email addresses which are delivered to my desktop, not
> my phone.

Why? You seem to delight in making life unnecessarily complicated for
yourself and then blaming others for the inconvenience it causes you.

>
>>> And then you have to poke around the phone to find the attachment.
>>
>> Any decent email client will show it to you a an attachment that you
>> may have to click on.
>
> Last time this came up, I was persuaded to test this "oops, ticket
> machine broken, I've now got five minutes in the pouring rain in the
> station car park to dig out a mobile phone and buy a ticket with that
> instead" scenario, using a recommended email app [Spark] which gives a
> filtered view of my gmail account (but which isn't the one I have
> registered with the ticket-buying sites).
>
> While the filtering worked, the test purchase I made to that email
> address, had this text in the email from the TOC:
>
> "Please use Adobe Acrobat to open and print these tickets. If
> you do not have Adobe Acrobat, you must download it by
> <clicking here>"
>
> And the email client, if I click on the attachments, does launch
> Acrobat; but that then requires me to sign in, and I don't have an Adobe
> account, nor do I want to tell Adobe my Facebook sign-in credentials
> (which are an alternative).
>
> It's still raining, and now I only have one minute left.

See above.

>
>>> My work phone doesn't even have a PDF viewer on it (although that
>>> may be unusual, it's apparently the default for the organisation who
>>> have lent it to me).
>>
>> You have no phones of your own that you could use?
>
> I do, but I'm addressing the idea that "all phones have pdf viewers on
> them", which is clearly not the case.

It would appear that it has been deliberately disabled on the that
phone. Hardly the fault of the ticket sellers.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>> broken I often saw them taking a photo with their phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>
>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>
>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>> e-ticket,
>>>>> for example).
>>>>
>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>
>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>
>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>
>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>
>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>
>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>
>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>> associated with it.
>
> And that is a problem how?
>
>>
>> And then you have to poke around the phone to find the attachment.
>
> Any decent email client will show it to you a an attachment that you
> may have to click on.
>
>>
>> My work phone doesn't even have a PDF viewer on it (although that may be
>> unusual, it's apparently the default for the organisation who have lent
>> it to me).
>
> You have no phones of your own that you could use?
>

Ah, I’d forgotten that this was a special Roland only problem. The rest of
us can get emailed pdfs without much problem. As I see it, most of the time
it’s much less risky than hoping a ticket machine is working, either to
purchase the ticket or to print one out you bought online, or,hoping the
ticket office is open or without a queue. You can even do it at home and
print a paper version.

There’s nothing to stop Roland forwarding the email from his neutered work
phone to something more adequate.

My wife, who has little interest in computers other than as a work tool,
regularly travels for work on a pdf ticket. She orders it online through
the work travel portal, it gets sent to her work email address (which she
can only read on the works laptop) and she forwards it to her personal
iPhone. She finds it much better than having to use the ticket printing
machine at the station.

In message <sod3o8$i0o$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:49:12 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>> broken I often saw them taking a photo with their phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>> e-ticket,
>>>>>> for example).
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>
>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>
>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>
>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>
>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>
>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>> associated with it.
>>
>> And that is a problem how?
>>
>>>
>>> And then you have to poke around the phone to find the attachment.
>>
>> Any decent email client will show it to you a an attachment that you
>> may have to click on.
>>
>>>
>>> My work phone doesn't even have a PDF viewer on it (although that may be
>>> unusual, it's apparently the default for the organisation who have lent
>>> it to me).
>>
>> You have no phones of your own that you could use?
>
>Ah, I’d forgotten that this was a special Roland only problem. The rest of
>us can get emailed pdfs without much problem.

But not necessarily five minutes before the train is due to leave.

>As I see it, most of the time it’s much less risky than hoping a
>ticket machine is working, either to purchase the ticket or to print
>one out you bought online, or,hoping the ticket office is open or
>without a queue.

False dichotomy. They should have other schemes in place when the
facilities for buying tickets are broken (or not adequately manned).

That's the whole point of my original posting. Not putting the entire
burden for their failure onto the passenger.

>You can even do it at home and print a paper version.
>
>There’s nothing to stop Roland forwarding the email from his neutered work
>phone to something more adequate.

Apart from that being against the rules from the IT department. "NEVER
forward emails to a private email account."

>My wife, who has little interest in computers other than as a work tool,
>regularly travels for work on a pdf ticket. She orders it online through
>the work travel portal, it gets sent to her work email address (which she
>can only read on the works laptop) and she forwards it to her personal
>iPhone.

Obviously she has a less risk-averse IT department.

>She finds it much better than having to use the ticket printing machine
>at the station.

But doesn't cover the situation I'm describing, which is last-minute
discretionary travel. The most likely discretionary I ticket I might buy
is £1.90. What a palaver just to avoid a £100 fine!
--
Roland Perry

In message <sod3bh$faq$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:25 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 03/12/2021 12:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <socvtm$nti$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:43:50 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec
>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>> machine is broken I often saw them taking a photo with their
>>>>>>>> phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>> e-ticket, for example).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>
>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>
>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>> associated with it.
>>>
>>> And that is a problem how?

>> Because the accounts I have with ticket booking sites are currently
>> associated with email addresses which are delivered to my desktop, not
>> my phone.
>
>Why? You seem to delight in making life unnecessarily complicated for
>yourself and then blaming others for the inconvenience it causes you.

What would be unnecessarily complicated would be for me to have routine
e-tickets delivered to my phone, because then I'd need to forward them
either to my desktop (which is my preferred audit trail for this kind of
thing, and also the appliance with a printer, which my phone isn't) or
to the person who I bought the ticket for (which is at least half of my
purchases).

Forwarding stuff from a phone is far more fiddly than from my desktop.

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sod3bh$faq$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:25 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 03/12/2021 12:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <socvtm$nti$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:43:50 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>>> machine is broken I often saw them taking a photo with their
>>>>>>>>> phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>>> e-ticket, for example).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>
>>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>>> associated with it.
>>>>
>>>> And that is a problem how?
>
>>> Because the accounts I have with ticket booking sites are currently
>>> associated with email addresses which are delivered to my desktop, not
>>> my phone.
>>
>> Why? You seem to delight in making life unnecessarily complicated for
>> yourself and then blaming others for the inconvenience it causes you.
>
> What would be unnecessarily complicated would be for me to have routine
> e-tickets delivered to my phone, because then I'd need to forward them
> either to my desktop (which is my preferred audit trail for this kind of
> thing, and also the appliance with a printer, which my phone isn't) or
> to the person who I bought the ticket for (which is at least half of my
> purchases).
>
> Forwarding stuff from a phone is far more fiddly than from my desktop.
>

Well you’d better get used to it or stop travelling by train. The direction
of all ticketing is heading away from ticket offices and ticket machines,
and especially the use of cash. It will be salami slices, with a few wrong
turns along the way, but it will happen.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sod3o8$i0o$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:49:12 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> broken I often saw them taking a photo with their phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>> e-ticket,
>>>>>>> for example).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>
>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>>
>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>>
>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>> associated with it.
>>>
>>> And that is a problem how?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And then you have to poke around the phone to find the attachment.
>>>
>>> Any decent email client will show it to you a an attachment that you
>>> may have to click on.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My work phone doesn't even have a PDF viewer on it (although that may be
>>>> unusual, it's apparently the default for the organisation who have lent
>>>> it to me).
>>>
>>> You have no phones of your own that you could use?
>>
>> Ah, I’d forgotten that this was a special Roland only problem. The rest of
>> us can get emailed pdfs without much problem.
>
> But not necessarily five minutes before the train is due to leave.
>
>> As I see it, most of the time it’s much less risky than hoping a
>> ticket machine is working, either to purchase the ticket or to print
>> one out you bought online, or,hoping the ticket office is open or
>> without a queue.
>
> False dichotomy. They should have other schemes in place when the
> facilities for buying tickets are broken (or not adequately manned).
>
> That's the whole point of my original posting. Not putting the entire
> burden for their failure onto the passenger.
>
>> You can even do it at home and print a paper version.
>>
>> There’s nothing to stop Roland forwarding the email from his neutered work
>> phone to something more adequate.
>
> Apart from that being against the rules from the IT department. "NEVER
> forward emails to a private email account."
>
>> My wife, who has little interest in computers other than as a work tool,
>> regularly travels for work on a pdf ticket. She orders it online through
>> the work travel portal, it gets sent to her work email address (which she
>> can only read on the works laptop) and she forwards it to her personal
>> iPhone.
>
> Obviously she has a less risk-averse IT department.
>
>> She finds it much better than having to use the ticket printing machine
>> at the station.
>
> But doesn't cover the situation I'm describing, which is last-minute
> discretionary travel. The most likely discretionary I ticket I might buy
> is £1.90. What a palaver just to avoid a £100 fine!

Does your IT edict ban you from emailing your private account from the work
account? (If so, is there a list of people you can and cannot email?) If
you feel so hide bound by a rule that is obviously for another purpose,
save the pdf and then attach it to a fresh email to your private account.

Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of the wise.

In message <sod8v9$n1o$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:18:17 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sod3bh$faq$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:25 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 03/12/2021 12:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <socvtm$nti$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:43:50 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2
>>>>>>>>Dec 2021,
>>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>>>> machine is broken I often saw them taking a photo with their
>>>>>>>>>> phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>>>> e-ticket, for example).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>>
>>>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>>>> associated with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> And that is a problem how?
>>
>>>> Because the accounts I have with ticket booking sites are currently
>>>> associated with email addresses which are delivered to my desktop, not
>>>> my phone.
>>>
>>> Why? You seem to delight in making life unnecessarily complicated for
>>> yourself and then blaming others for the inconvenience it causes you.
>>
>> What would be unnecessarily complicated would be for me to have routine
>> e-tickets delivered to my phone, because then I'd need to forward them
>> either to my desktop (which is my preferred audit trail for this kind of
>> thing, and also the appliance with a printer, which my phone isn't) or
>> to the person who I bought the ticket for (which is at least half of my
>> purchases).
>>
>> Forwarding stuff from a phone is far more fiddly than from my desktop.
>
>Well you’d better get used to it or stop travelling by train. The direction
>of all ticketing is heading away from ticket offices and ticket machines,
>and especially the use of cash. It will be salami slices, with a few wrong
>turns along the way, but it will happen.

I'm quite happy with non-paper ticketing, but it needs to be fit
for purpose. At the moment they are introducing new sticks, and
not improving the carrots. My preference would probably be an Oyster-
like ITSO PAYG, but that has somewhat restricted rollout at the moment.

<https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/-/media/goahead/gtr-all-shared-pdfs-
and-documents/key-documents/gtr-1805-ret-keygo-area-map-v27.pdf>

Although I have very little confidence that map is actually up to date.

Nor does it deliver on GTR's franchise commitment to have smart
ticketing across their whole network by about four years ago.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sod8v9$n1o$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:18:17 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sod3bh$faq$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:25 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 03/12/2021 12:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <socvtm$nti$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:43:50 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2
>>>>>>>>> Dec 2021,
>>>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>>>>> machine is broken I often saw them taking a photo with their
>>>>>>>>>>> phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>>>>> e-ticket, for example).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>>>>> associated with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And that is a problem how?
>>>
>>>>> Because the accounts I have with ticket booking sites are currently
>>>>> associated with email addresses which are delivered to my desktop, not
>>>>> my phone.
>>>>
>>>> Why? You seem to delight in making life unnecessarily complicated for
>>>> yourself and then blaming others for the inconvenience it causes you.
>>>
>>> What would be unnecessarily complicated would be for me to have routine
>>> e-tickets delivered to my phone, because then I'd need to forward them
>>> either to my desktop (which is my preferred audit trail for this kind of
>>> thing, and also the appliance with a printer, which my phone isn't) or
>>> to the person who I bought the ticket for (which is at least half of my
>>> purchases).
>>>
>>> Forwarding stuff from a phone is far more fiddly than from my desktop.
>>
>> Well you’d better get used to it or stop travelling by train. The direction
>> of all ticketing is heading away from ticket offices and ticket machines,
>> and especially the use of cash. It will be salami slices, with a few wrong
>> turns along the way, but it will happen.
>
> I'm quite happy with non-paper ticketing, but it needs to be fit
> for purpose. At the moment they are introducing new sticks, and
> not improving the carrots. My preference would probably be an Oyster-
> like ITSO PAYG, but that has somewhat restricted rollout at the moment.
>
> <https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/-/media/goahead/gtr-all-shared-pdfs-
> and-documents/key-documents/gtr-1805-ret-keygo-area-map-v27.pdf>
>
> Although I have very little confidence that map is actually up to date.
>
> Nor does it deliver on GTR's franchise commitment to have smart
> ticketing across their whole network by about four years ago.

It’s going to take GB Railways to sort that out properly, and it’s going to
take a few years for GB Railways to sort themselves out first….

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 10:02:34 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the machine is
>>> broken I often saw them taking a photo with their phone (no, m-tickets
>>
>>For which journeys, for example?
>>
>>(I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return e-ticket,
>>for example).
>
>I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>e-ticket I suppose).
>
>Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>
>Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>network by about four years ago].
>
>Nice try, but no cigar.
ILast week I bought Bishop's Stortford - Liverpool Street and Bishop's
Stortford - Stansted Mountfitchet tickets and selected pdf. Upon
opening the GA app the tickets all appeared in My Tickets and
cosmetically looked the same as m-tickets used to but there was no
option to explicitly download or activate.

On GA it seems that pdfs and mTiclets are now effectively the same
thing.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sod3bh$faq$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:25 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 03/12/2021 12:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <socvtm$nti$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:43:50 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>>> machine is broken I often saw them taking a photo with their
>>>>>>>>> phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>>> e-ticket, for example).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>
>>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>>> associated with it.
>>>>
>>>> And that is a problem how?
>
>>> Because the accounts I have with ticket booking sites are currently
>>> associated with email addresses which are delivered to my desktop, not
>>> my phone.
>>
>> Why? You seem to delight in making life unnecessarily complicated for
>> yourself and then blaming others for the inconvenience it causes you.
>
> What would be unnecessarily complicated would be for me to have routine
> e-tickets delivered to my phone, because then I'd need to forward them
> either to my desktop (which is my preferred audit trail for this kind of
> thing, and also the appliance with a printer, which my phone isn't) or
> to the person who I bought the ticket for (which is at least half of my
> purchases).

Why can't your phone access the same email accounts as your desktop?

>
> Forwarding stuff from a phone is far more fiddly than from my desktop.
>

Why?

Am 03.12.2021 um 14:39 schrieb Roland Perry:
> In message <sod3o8$i0o$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:49:12 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>> You can even do it at home and print a paper version.
>>
>> There’s nothing to stop Roland forwarding the email from his neutered
>> work phone to something more adequate.
>
> Apart from that being against the rules from the IT department. "NEVER
> forward emails to a private email account."

The commandment immediately above being: "Never use your work
infrastructrue for private purposes".

Most other companies have rules like
"Confidential or internal information must not be sent to any e-mail
account outside the company. Do not forward mails containing such
information to your private IT infrastructure or email accounts."

Formally, this forbids me from synching my work calendar with my private
smart phone because the titles of some meetings are "internal"
(customers or competitors could theoretically learn things they are not
supposed to know - e.g. that customer 'XYZ' has certain IT problems or
that we consider a certain situation to be a bug before we have formally
acknowledged that to the customer).
Duplicating my free/busy information to the private smart phone would be
allowed though.

Rolf

In message <sod998$p6g$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:23:36 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>>> There’s nothing to stop Roland forwarding the email from his neutered work
>>> phone to something more adequate.
>>
>> Apart from that being against the rules from the IT department. "NEVER
>> forward emails to a private email account."
>>
>>> My wife, who has little interest in computers other than as a work tool,
>>> regularly travels for work on a pdf ticket. She orders it online through
>>> the work travel portal, it gets sent to her work email address (which she
>>> can only read on the works laptop) and she forwards it to her personal
>>> iPhone.
>>
>> Obviously she has a less risk-averse IT department.
>>
>>> She finds it much better than having to use the ticket printing machine
>>> at the station.
>>
>> But doesn't cover the situation I'm describing, which is last-minute
>> discretionary travel. The most likely discretionary I ticket I might buy
>> is £1.90. What a palaver just to avoid a £100 fine!
>
>Does your IT edict ban you from emailing your private account from the work
>account? (If so, is there a list of people you can and cannot email?) If
>you feel so hide bound by a rule that is obviously for another purpose,
>save the pdf and then attach it to a fresh email to your private account.

I'm not sure if it also applies to sending fresh emails, but if they
contain stuff (eg documents stored on the phone) in addition to any
freshly-typed wisdom, I suspect they'd say not.

The underlying reason is so that they can fulfil Subject Access Requests
(are they still called that under GDPR?) by only accessing corporate
equipment and not have to also scan every private PC in case something
juicy was sent to it. They clearly think that were they to allow such
transmission, then people's home computers would come within scope,
because the [potentially personal] data in question was originated at
work.
--
Roland Perry

In message <67ckqgp91gd400u6ipvl4tsad19p4getiq@4ax.com>, at 15:03:25 on
Fri, 3 Dec 2021, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 10:02:34 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the machine is
>>>> broken I often saw them taking a photo with their phone (no, m-tickets
>>>
>>>For which journeys, for example?
>>>
>>>(I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return e-ticket,
>>>for example).
>>
>>I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>e-ticket I suppose).
>>
>>Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>
>>Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>network by about four years ago].
>>
>>Nice try, but no cigar.

>ILast week I bought Bishop's Stortford - Liverpool Street and Bishop's
>Stortford - Stansted Mountfitchet tickets and selected pdf. Upon
>opening the GA app the tickets all appeared in My Tickets and
>cosmetically looked the same as m-tickets used to but there was no
>option to explicitly download or activate.
>
>On GA it seems that pdfs and mTiclets are now effectively the same
>thing.

That may well be the case, but they aren't predictably available on
particular station pairs.
--
Roland Perry

Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
> Am 03.12.2021 um 14:39 schrieb Roland Perry:
>> In message <sod3o8$i0o$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:49:12 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> You can even do it at home and print a paper version.
>>>
>>> There’s nothing to stop Roland forwarding the email from his neutered
>>> work phone to something more adequate.
>>
>> Apart from that being against the rules from the IT department. "NEVER
>> forward emails to a private email account."
>
> The commandment immediately above being: "Never use your work
> infrastructrue for private purposes".
>
> Most other companies have rules like
> "Confidential or internal information must not be sent to any e-mail
> account outside the company. Do not forward mails containing such
> information to your private IT infrastructure or email accounts."
>
> Formally, this forbids me from synching my work calendar with my private
> smart phone because the titles of some meetings are "internal"
> (customers or competitors could theoretically learn things they are not
> supposed to know - e.g. that customer 'XYZ' has certain IT problems or
> that we consider a certain situation to be a bug before we have formally
> acknowledged that to the customer).
> Duplicating my free/busy information to the private smart phone would be
> allowed though.
>
> Rolf
>
>

Well exactly. Every *sensible* prohibition I’ve seen (I accept that the
security services etc may differ) forbids auto forwarding emails to your
private account and manually forwarding confidential email. You might have
good cause to forward some emails to your private account, such as sending
a copy of your P60 or pay slips that can only be accessed on the company
Intranet. If your employer forbids you from forwarding a train ticket it
might be good grounds to ponder a more sensible employer.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sod3o8$i0o$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:49:12 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> broken I often saw them taking a photo with their phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>> e-ticket,
>>>>>>> for example).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>
>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>>
>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>>
>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>> associated with it.
>>>
>>> And that is a problem how?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And then you have to poke around the phone to find the attachment.
>>>
>>> Any decent email client will show it to you a an attachment that you
>>> may have to click on.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My work phone doesn't even have a PDF viewer on it (although that may be
>>>> unusual, it's apparently the default for the organisation who have lent
>>>> it to me).
>>>
>>> You have no phones of your own that you could use?
>>
>> Ah, I’d forgotten that this was a special Roland only problem. The rest of
>> us can get emailed pdfs without much problem.
>
> But not necessarily five minutes before the train is due to leave.

Why would it take more than a few seconds?

>
>> As I see it, most of the time it’s much less risky than hoping a
>> ticket machine is working, either to purchase the ticket or to print
>> one out you bought online, or,hoping the ticket office is open or
>> without a queue.
>
> False dichotomy. They should have other schemes in place when the
> facilities for buying tickets are broken (or not adequately manned).
>
> That's the whole point of my original posting. Not putting the entire
> burden for their failure onto the passenger.
>
>> You can even do it at home and print a paper version.
>>
>> There’s nothing to stop Roland forwarding the email from his neutered work
>> phone to something more adequate.
>
> Apart from that being against the rules from the IT department. "NEVER
> forward emails to a private email account."
>
>> My wife, who has little interest in computers other than as a work tool,
>> regularly travels for work on a pdf ticket. She orders it online through
>> the work travel portal, it gets sent to her work email address (which she
>> can only read on the works laptop) and she forwards it to her personal
>> iPhone.
>
> Obviously she has a less risk-averse IT department.
>
>> She finds it much better than having to use the ticket printing machine
>> at the station.
>
> But doesn't cover the situation I'm describing, which is last-minute
> discretionary travel. The most likely discretionary I ticket I might buy
> is £1.90. What a palaver just to avoid a £100 fine!

What palaver? Buy the ticket, get the email within seconds, open the PDF
attachment if it doesn't happen automatically. And, no, you don't need an
Adobe account to view PDFs.

In message <sodbik$9m0$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:02:44 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>> I'm quite happy with non-paper ticketing, but it needs to be fit
>> for purpose. At the moment they are introducing new sticks, and
>> not improving the carrots. My preference would probably be an Oyster-
>> like ITSO PAYG, but that has somewhat restricted rollout at the moment.
>>
>> <https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/-/media/goahead/gtr-all-shared-pdfs-
>> and-documents/key-documents/gtr-1805-ret-keygo-area-map-v27.pdf>
>>
>> Although I have very little confidence that map is actually up to date.
>>
>> Nor does it deliver on GTR's franchise commitment to have smart
>> ticketing across their whole network by about four years ago.
>
>It’s going to take GB Railways to sort that out properly,

GTR could sort it out before then (or even several years ago, when they
committed to doing so).

There are other interoperablity glitches which *have * been solved, such
as *some* ITSO ticketing to Cambridge [which is annoyingly, for
historical reasons, run by Greater Anglia, despite the vast majority of
PAX being on GTR flows] and so the Berlin Wall at Foxton is not an
inevitable show-stopper any more.

>and it’s going to take a few years for GB Railways to sort themselves
>out first

And perhaps they need to be less eager to roll out the new sticks quite
so soon, if the carrots are thus condemned to be "jam the day after
tomorrow".
--
Roland Perry

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sod3o8$i0o$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:49:12 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>> broken I often saw them taking a photo with their phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>>> e-ticket,
>>>>>>>> for example).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>>>
>>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>>> associated with it.
>>>>
>>>> And that is a problem how?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And then you have to poke around the phone to find the attachment.
>>>>
>>>> Any decent email client will show it to you a an attachment that you
>>>> may have to click on.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My work phone doesn't even have a PDF viewer on it (although that may be
>>>>> unusual, it's apparently the default for the organisation who have lent
>>>>> it to me).
>>>>
>>>> You have no phones of your own that you could use?
>>>
>>> Ah, I’d forgotten that this was a special Roland only problem. The rest of
>>> us can get emailed pdfs without much problem.
>>
>> But not necessarily five minutes before the train is due to leave.
>
> Why would it take more than a few seconds?
>
>>
>>> As I see it, most of the time it’s much less risky than hoping a
>>> ticket machine is working, either to purchase the ticket or to print
>>> one out you bought online, or,hoping the ticket office is open or
>>> without a queue.
>>
>> False dichotomy. They should have other schemes in place when the
>> facilities for buying tickets are broken (or not adequately manned).
>>
>> That's the whole point of my original posting. Not putting the entire
>> burden for their failure onto the passenger.
>>
>>> You can even do it at home and print a paper version.
>>>
>>> There’s nothing to stop Roland forwarding the email from his neutered work
>>> phone to something more adequate.
>>
>> Apart from that being against the rules from the IT department. "NEVER
>> forward emails to a private email account."
>>
>>> My wife, who has little interest in computers other than as a work tool,
>>> regularly travels for work on a pdf ticket. She orders it online through
>>> the work travel portal, it gets sent to her work email address (which she
>>> can only read on the works laptop) and she forwards it to her personal
>>> iPhone.
>>
>> Obviously she has a less risk-averse IT department.
>>
>>> She finds it much better than having to use the ticket printing machine
>>> at the station.
>>
>> But doesn't cover the situation I'm describing, which is last-minute
>> discretionary travel. The most likely discretionary I ticket I might buy
>> is £1.90. What a palaver just to avoid a £100 fine!
>
>
> What palaver? Buy the ticket, get the email within seconds, open the PDF
> attachment if it doesn't happen automatically. And, no, you don't need an
> Adobe account to view PDFs.
>

Roland’s world is unaccountably more difficult that everyone else’s.

In message <sodc51$dto$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:12:33 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sod3bh$faq$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:25 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 03/12/2021 12:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <socvtm$nti$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:43:50 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2
>>>>>>>>Dec 2021,
>>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>>>> machine is broken I often saw them taking a photo with their
>>>>>>>>>> phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>>>> e-ticket, for example).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>>
>>>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>>>> associated with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> And that is a problem how?
>>
>>>> Because the accounts I have with ticket booking sites are currently
>>>> associated with email addresses which are delivered to my desktop, not
>>>> my phone.
>>>
>>> Why? You seem to delight in making life unnecessarily complicated for
>>> yourself and then blaming others for the inconvenience it causes you.
>>
>> What would be unnecessarily complicated would be for me to have routine
>> e-tickets delivered to my phone, because then I'd need to forward them
>> either to my desktop (which is my preferred audit trail for this kind of
>> thing, and also the appliance with a printer, which my phone isn't) or
>> to the person who I bought the ticket for (which is at least half of my
>> purchases).
>
>Why can't your phone access the same email accounts as your desktop?

Because the majority of my email is held on POP3 accounts that the
client can't access, nor would I want it to. It would be overwhelmed.

>> Forwarding stuff from a phone is far more fiddly than from my desktop.
>
>Why?

You'd have to ask the people who write mobile phone operating systems
why they are so fiddly to use for rather a lot of "one click" stuff on a
desktop. But of course another reason is that my phone doesn't have a
mouse, combined with a screen which has a mere fraction of the real
estate of my desktop.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sodd60$l4q$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:30:09 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>> Am 03.12.2021 um 14:39 schrieb Roland Perry:
>>> In message <sod3o8$i0o$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:49:12 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> You can even do it at home and print a paper version.
>>>>
>>>> There’s nothing to stop Roland forwarding the email from his neutered
>>>> work phone to something more adequate.
>>>
>>> Apart from that being against the rules from the IT department. "NEVER
>>> forward emails to a private email account."
>>
>> The commandment immediately above being: "Never use your work
>> infrastructrue for private purposes".
>>
>> Most other companies have rules like
>> "Confidential or internal information must not be sent to any e-mail
>> account outside the company. Do not forward mails containing such
>> information to your private IT infrastructure or email accounts."
>>
>> Formally, this forbids me from synching my work calendar with my private
>> smart phone because the titles of some meetings are "internal"
>> (customers or competitors could theoretically learn things they are not
>> supposed to know - e.g. that customer 'XYZ' has certain IT problems or
>> that we consider a certain situation to be a bug before we have formally
>> acknowledged that to the customer).
>> Duplicating my free/busy information to the private smart phone would be
>> allowed though.
>
>Well exactly. Every *sensible* prohibition I’ve seen (I accept that the
>security services etc may differ) forbids auto forwarding emails to your
>private account and manually forwarding confidential email. You might have
>good cause to forward some emails to your private account, such as sending
>a copy of your P60 or pay slips that can only be accessed on the company
>Intranet.

The employer would argue that you should print them off *from the
Intranet*, or perhaps point out that *they* have sent you copies to your
personal email [yes, I know, but banning all employees from sending any
external emails, cramps the style a bit], if you could only be bothered
to read them.

>If your employer forbids you from forwarding a train ticket it
>might be good grounds to ponder a more sensible employer.

Ah yes, the rather last-century "I'm C++ programmer in such demand I can
walk into a better job tomorrow" argument.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sodc51$dto$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:12:33 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sod3bh$faq$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:25 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 03/12/2021 12:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <socvtm$nti$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:43:50 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2
>>>>>>>>> Dec 2021,
>>>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>>>>> machine is broken I often saw them taking a photo with their
>>>>>>>>>>> phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>>>>> e-ticket, for example).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>>>>> associated with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And that is a problem how?
>>>
>>>>> Because the accounts I have with ticket booking sites are currently
>>>>> associated with email addresses which are delivered to my desktop, not
>>>>> my phone.
>>>>
>>>> Why? You seem to delight in making life unnecessarily complicated for
>>>> yourself and then blaming others for the inconvenience it causes you.
>>>
>>> What would be unnecessarily complicated would be for me to have routine
>>> e-tickets delivered to my phone, because then I'd need to forward them
>>> either to my desktop (which is my preferred audit trail for this kind of
>>> thing, and also the appliance with a printer, which my phone isn't) or
>>> to the person who I bought the ticket for (which is at least half of my
>>> purchases).
>>
>> Why can't your phone access the same email accounts as your desktop?
>
> Because the majority of my email is held on POP3 accounts that the
> client can't access, nor would I want it to. It would be overwhelmed.
>
>>> Forwarding stuff from a phone is far more fiddly than from my desktop.
>>
>> Why?
>
> You'd have to ask the people who write mobile phone operating systems
> why they are so fiddly to use for rather a lot of "one click" stuff on a
> desktop. But of course another reason is that my phone doesn't have a
> mouse, combined with a screen which has a mere fraction of the real
> estate of my desktop.

Doesn’t your email do imap?

In message <sodd6p$leg$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:30:33 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sod3o8$i0o$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:49:12 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>> broken I often saw them taking a photo with their phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>>> e-ticket,
>>>>>>>> for example).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>>>
>>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>>> associated with it.
>>>>
>>>> And that is a problem how?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And then you have to poke around the phone to find the attachment.
>>>>
>>>> Any decent email client will show it to you a an attachment that you
>>>> may have to click on.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My work phone doesn't even have a PDF viewer on it (although that may be
>>>>> unusual, it's apparently the default for the organisation who have lent
>>>>> it to me).
>>>>
>>>> You have no phones of your own that you could use?
>>>
>>> Ah, I’d forgotten that this was a special Roland only problem. The rest of
>>> us can get emailed pdfs without much problem.
>>
>> But not necessarily five minutes before the train is due to leave.
>
>Why would it take more than a few seconds?

Because of all the poking around on your phone required to select a
suitable ticket, and pay for it.

Some sites even try quite hard to persuade people *not* to buy tickets
for a train that's leaving in the immediate future, presumably on the
grounds that they expect you to be doing it from home and don't want you
missing the train.

And it also assumes the flow you ant *even has* a PDF ticket. Was I
wasting my time posting about specific examples of ones which for
entirely non-intuitive reasons don't?

>>> As I see it, most of the time it’s much less risky than hoping a
>>> ticket machine is working, either to purchase the ticket or to print
>>> one out you bought online, or,hoping the ticket office is open or
>>> without a queue.
>>
>> False dichotomy. They should have other schemes in place when the
>> facilities for buying tickets are broken (or not adequately manned).
>>
>> That's the whole point of my original posting. Not putting the entire
>> burden for their failure onto the passenger.
>>
>>> You can even do it at home and print a paper version.
>>>
>>> There’s nothing to stop Roland forwarding the email from his neutered work
>>> phone to something more adequate.
>>
>> Apart from that being against the rules from the IT department. "NEVER
>> forward emails to a private email account."
>>
>>> My wife, who has little interest in computers other than as a work tool,
>>> regularly travels for work on a pdf ticket. She orders it online through
>>> the work travel portal, it gets sent to her work email address (which she
>>> can only read on the works laptop) and she forwards it to her personal
>>> iPhone.
>>
>> Obviously she has a less risk-averse IT department.
>>
>>> She finds it much better than having to use the ticket printing machine
>>> at the station.
>>
>> But doesn't cover the situation I'm describing, which is last-minute
>> discretionary travel. The most likely discretionary I ticket I might buy
>> is £1.90. What a palaver just to avoid a £100 fine!
>
>What palaver? Buy the ticket, get the email within seconds, open the PDF
>attachment if it doesn't happen automatically. And, no, you don't need an
>Adobe account to view PDFs.

You've not followed the thread very well, have you?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sodc51$dto$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:12:33 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sod3bh$faq$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:42:25 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 03/12/2021 12:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <socvtm$nti$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:43:50 on Fri, 3 Dec 2021,
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 03/12/2021 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <socqrg$o9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:17:20 on Fri, 3 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <soaejt$u8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:14 on Thu, 2
>>>>>>>>> Dec 2021,
>>>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> People might get caught out less these days, because when the
>>>>>>>>>>> machine is broken I often saw them taking a photo with their
>>>>>>>>>>> phone (no, m-tickets
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For which journeys, for example?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (I've just done a test almost-purchase of an Ely-Cambridge return
>>>>>>>>>> e-ticket, for example).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've tried Ely-Brandon just now, and the options are Collection,
>>>>>>>>> Smartcard or Emailed pdf. As discussed before, I have issues regarding
>>>>>>>>> an emailed pdf as fully an m-ticket (although it does qualify as an
>>>>>>>>> e-ticket I suppose).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ely to Liverpool St, only offers Collection (not even ITSO collection).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ely to Kings Cross or Kings Lynn, nothing if not inconsistent (although
>>>>>>>>> the KGX ticket would also be valid to LST!) Collection and PDF [so much
>>>>>>>>> for GTR's franchise commitment to roll ITSO out across their whole
>>>>>>>>> network by about four years ago].
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What’s your objection to an emailed pdf?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was discussed at great length a few months ago.
>>>>>>> Mainly the need for the email to be sent to a phone, which requires
>>>>>>> an account with the ticket vendor which has such an email address
>>>>>>> associated with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And that is a problem how?
>>>
>>>>> Because the accounts I have with ticket booking sites are currently
>>>>> associated with email addresses which are delivered to my desktop, not
>>>>> my phone.
>>>>
>>>> Why? You seem to delight in making life unnecessarily complicated for
>>>> yourself and then blaming others for the inconvenience it causes you.
>>>
>>> What would be unnecessarily complicated would be for me to have routine
>>> e-tickets delivered to my phone, because then I'd need to forward them
>>> either to my desktop (which is my preferred audit trail for this kind of
>>> thing, and also the appliance with a printer, which my phone isn't) or
>>> to the person who I bought the ticket for (which is at least half of my
>>> purchases).
>>
>> Why can't your phone access the same email accounts as your desktop?
>
> Because the majority of my email is held on POP3 accounts that the
> client can't access, nor would I want it to. It would be overwhelmed.

Why can't the email client access POP3 accounts? And what would be
overwhelmed by a few email accesses?

>
>>> Forwarding stuff from a phone is far more fiddly than from my desktop.
>>
>> Why?
>
> You'd have to ask the people who write mobile phone operating systems
> why they are so fiddly to use for rather a lot of "one click" stuff on a
> desktop. But of course another reason is that my phone doesn't have a
> mouse, combined with a screen which has a mere fraction of the real
> estate of my desktop.

Doesn't your phone have a touch screen? Unless you're disabled, it should
be perfectly possible to forward mail using a single touch.

You do seem to make a point of deliberately using under-specified phones.
And what's all this about your "work phone"? Didn't you retire years ago?