On 15/12/2021 12:08, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Talking of clunky, I parked my car at a station recently, and the
>>>> payment scheme wasn't any of the several apps I've had to set up (almost
>>>> all of them subsequently only to be used once) and the ticket machine
>>>> was very cumbersome. They clearly expect people to learn about it from
>>>> experience, rather than actually having a decent user interface. Good
>>>> news is, the screen was readable, the one at a hospital I visited a
>>>> couple of years ago the backlight appeared to be broken, and in the
>>>> absence of any street lighting, it was impossible to use without a
>>>> torch.
>>>
>>> Doesn't everyone carry a torch in their pocket these days?
>>
>> Roland probably doesn't know his phone includes a torch, or how to switch
>> it on.
>
> [sub-thread convergence] And he’d have to put his umbrella down.

Make every day bright with the new Amstrad umbrella with built-in torch!

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 15/12/2021 12:18, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 15/12/2021 11:57, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <sp7sjr$knq$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:32:59 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <sp7qaj$6n7$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:53:56 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <sov2qn$eb4$6@dont-email.me>, at 08:23:51 on Fri, 10 Dec
>>>>>>>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/2021 19:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec
>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might,  just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hundred, it's a  bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this week to expect  me to bend over backwards for *their*
>>>>>>>>>>>>> convenience.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PERTIS machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last
>>>>>>>>>>>>> minute using their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car
>>>>>>>>>>>>> park, on pain of a £100 fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally
>>>>>>>>>>>> if it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got
>>>>>>>>>>>> out of the car.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't stop you going back to the car to get out f the rain or even
>>>>>>>>>> sheltering under the station canopy while you order the ticket. No need
>>>>>>>>>> to stand in the rain.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The car is parked at least a hundred yards away, the station has no
>>>>>>>>> canopy, and the train is due in five minutes (which would be plenty of
>>>>>>>>> time to buy a ticket from a working TVM).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Won’t you get wet using the TVM?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, but only for about twenty seconds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, you’ll get wet for the 5 minutes you’re waiting for the train. Next.
>>>>>
>>>>> The time interval in question is when one puts down the umbrella,
>>>>> because I don't have three arms.
>>>>
>>>> I’ve not come across a TVM which requires 2 arms to operate it. Can you
>>>> explain?
>>>>
>>>
>>> A TVM in the sun requires one arm to operate the thing and the other to
>>> shield the screen. I suspect one screen a few years back got too hot to
>>> actually work.
>>
>> Right, so Roland will have to get wet for 20 seconds while he puts his
>> umbrella down so he can shield the screen from the sun. I can imagine a
>> situation where that might be the case, but I would submit that it would be
>> fairly rare.
>>
> Think about it you would need a third hard to hold your selection code
> if you're collecting pre-booked tickets

But Roland’s point is that doesn’t want to be bothered with pre-booking
tickets.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <4KF5hmunlMuhFAZN@perry.uk>, at 16:42:15 on Tue, 14 Dec 2021,
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>>>>> I keep meaning to study the BBC Breakfast (etc) clocks in more
>>>>>> detail to see how far off they are, especially as one of their Covid
>>>>>> geeks has a digital clock on the wall behind him. I have two adjacent
>>>>>> TVs, one on Freesat, the other on Freeview, and they are about two
>>>>>> seconds apart.
>>>>>
>>>>> One has the signal travelling a lot further than the other. Add in he
>>>>> digital delays on each tx chain (and rx chain) and you are going to get
>>>>> noticeable variations between nominally the same stations.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't superficially explain why the terrestrial version is lagging
>>>> the satellite (although the explanation has to be the terrestrial
>>>> transmitter is getting a satellite feed, and is adding in a decode/
>>>> recode delay). It's about two seconds.
>>>
>>> Are they the same model of TV/decoder? Do they have a PVR function that
>>> might be intercepting the signal before displaying it? I’m not familiar
>>> with digital TV or audio broadcasting but I do just about enough about
>>> media streaming to be dangerous.
>>
>> Different brands, and it's the satellite one which has the PVR function
>> built in (but annoyingly, requires an external USB HDD, and won't
>> recognise an external thumb drive[1]). But I do have a "separates"
>> Freeview PVR plugged into the terrestrial one, so later I'll see what
>> the timings are on that, compared to the Freesat.
>
> Exactly the same amount of delay. Two seconds (or however long it takes
> the announcer to say "and on BBC iPlayer").
>
> That's a helpful thing to measure because they always pause after that.
>
> So the satellite TV goes "blah blah blah trailer crap crap crap
> available live and on BBC iPlayer [silence]", and the terrestrial TV
> echoes over the silence "and on BBC iPlayer".

Slight diversion: on the occasions when there is a clock on screen, if it’s
showing seconds how far are they away from GMT/UTC/whathaveyou?

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 15/12/2021 13:06, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <spciuk$bc8$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:18:44 on Wed, 15 Dec
> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>
>>>> Tell you what, this is how it *should* work:
>>>>
>>>> First of all provide paper tickets for people who want them. Actually,
>>>> there are stations on the line where paper tickets from a TVM are *all*
>>>> you have, for car parking.
>>>>
>>>> But for travellers, write an app that they can call up just before the
>>>> train is due (not least because if the train turns out to have been
>>>> cancelled, they might want to make alternative arrangements rather than
>>>> wait an hour for the next one). Refund the parking ticket - maybe.
>>>>
>>>> The app knows where they are, and what the traveller's favourite
>>>> tickets
>>>> are. Bring up a pick-list, but obviously with a "something else",
>>>> leading to some queries, if they are being adventurous.
>>>>
>>>> Push the ticket to the phone, so that *all* they have to do is present
>>>> their NFC to a validator or barrier.
>>>>
>>>> Note the time when they touched out at the other end (the app would
>>>> have
>>>> to be tickling the NFC in anticipation) and twice for the return trip.
>>>> At the end of the day, work out what the most appropriate fare would be
>>>> (anytime, off-peak, railcard validity etc) and charge that to the
>>>> customer's credit card.
>>>>
>>>> Send a simple SMS to the phone to confirm, and an email for archive
>>>> purposes.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to put a cherry on the cake, automatically work out any
>>>> delay-repay that's due, based on the train they must have been aiming
>>>> for when they boarded, and what time the trains actually ran.
>>>>
>>>> There's no new or exciting technology there, just bothering to give the
>>>> customer a better experience.
>
>>>  That's basically what SBB EasyRide does, but ISTR you (and Martin?)
>>> complaining that that wasn't suitable either…
>
> Is it suitable for buying tickets from Ely to Soham? If so I'll give it
> a go. (I've had an SBB app on my phone for years)
>
>> I'm happy with TfW's m-tickets using their website and app in
>> conjunction.  I have their ITSO card all ready for when they implement
>> it for normal tickets.
>>
>> What I am not happy about is using emailed PDFs on my phone.  I could
>> configure my email provider's system to add an additional email
>> address on my phone and home computer but I have no immediate need or
>> inclination to spend the time and effort.  What's the point when TfW's
>> m-tickets work seamlessly.
>
> Because one day you might be further afield.
As I previously mentioned I've used the TfW app for tickets within Devon
and Cornwall for Tiverton Junction railway station to stations west.

On 15/12/2021 13:49, Sam Wilson wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 15/12/2021 12:18, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 15/12/2021 11:57, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <sp7sjr$knq$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:32:59 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <sp7qaj$6n7$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:53:56 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <sov2qn$eb4$6@dont-email.me>, at 08:23:51 on Fri, 10 Dec
>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/2021 19:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might,  just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hundred, it's a  bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this week to expect  me to bend over backwards for *their*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convenience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PERTIS machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minute using their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> park, on pain of a £100 fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out of the car.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't stop you going back to the car to get out f the rain or even
>>>>>>>>>>> sheltering under the station canopy while you order the ticket. No need
>>>>>>>>>>> to stand in the rain.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The car is parked at least a hundred yards away, the station has no
>>>>>>>>>> canopy, and the train is due in five minutes (which would be plenty of
>>>>>>>>>> time to buy a ticket from a working TVM).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Won’t you get wet using the TVM?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, but only for about twenty seconds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, you’ll get wet for the 5 minutes you’re waiting for the train. Next.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The time interval in question is when one puts down the umbrella,
>>>>>> because I don't have three arms.
>>>>>
>>>>> I’ve not come across a TVM which requires 2 arms to operate it. Can you
>>>>> explain?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A TVM in the sun requires one arm to operate the thing and the other to
>>>> shield the screen. I suspect one screen a few years back got too hot to
>>>> actually work.
>>>
>>> Right, so Roland will have to get wet for 20 seconds while he puts his
>>> umbrella down so he can shield the screen from the sun. I can imagine a
>>> situation where that might be the case, but I would submit that it would be
>>> fairly rare.
>>>
>> Think about it you would need a third hard to hold your selection code
>> if you're collecting pre-booked tickets
>
> But Roland’s point is that doesn’t want to be bothered with pre-booking
> tickets.
>

I book my tickets on-line just before I leave home or the previous
evening unless I'm using advance fares.

Why can't Roland just order his tickets on an Android app so there's no
problem transferring them to his phone?

In message <spavjn$qqm$7@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:31 on Tue, 14 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sokpoq$ojr$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:52 on Mon, 6 Dec 2021,
>> Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>>> On 2021-12-04 04:35:24 +0000, Anna Noyd-Dryver said:
>>>
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Why can't your phone access the same email accounts as your
>>>>>> desktop?
>>>>> Because the majority of my email is held on POP3 accounts that the
>>>>> client can't access, nor would I want it to. It would be overwhelmed.
>>>>>
>>>> Can't you have an email client on your phone to access the one one
>>>> specific POP3 account which you tickets get delivered to?
>>>
>>> The problem with POP3 is that it is designed around the idea that when
>>> an email client downloads a message, it is no longer available on the
>>> server.
>>
>> I wasn't attempting to contrast POP3 with IMAP, rather with webmail. But
>> in any event, POP3 has a "keep on server" option.
>
>You can access both POP3 and IMAP using webmail, so I'm entirely lost now
>as to what point you were trying to make.

That I hate webmail, and web mail on a phone, doubly so.

Which is perhaps a little odd, given I helped set up one of the UK's
first webmail providers, but we didn't expect it to scale beyond a few
dozen emails per subscriber a day.

>> As I've posted in several replies today, the issue isn't with IMAP, it's
>> with the sorting and storing of thousands of emails on a phone (however
>> it was they arrived there).
>
>Doesn't your email client have a search function?

I don't have a crystal ball to come up with search terms for emails from
unexpected places.

>> In other news, travelling home from Lincoln to Peterborough the other
>> evening, and it being dark outside, I tried to use my phone to pass the
>> time. For more than half the trip there was no usable mobile signal. So
>> much for 20yrs of progress.
>
>Didn't the train have WiFi? gWr's works in several tunnels now.

It was a Railway Touring Company charter. But I'm sceptical that even if
it did have wifi, they'd be able to latch onto any backhaul in that part
of the country.
--
Roland Perry

In message <fmpjrg1e8llftqvdckd0dmni5bilhkjc01@4ax.com>, at 13:01:47 on
Wed, 15 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 11:57:33 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <spb4hj$rht$2@dont-email.me>, at 22:06:43 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spaj3r$2m6$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:09:15 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 15:16:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <puahrghpk13hqjvcqr1k6j9mqmat6rq3s5@4ax.com>, at 14:42:38 on
>>>>>>> Tue, 14 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't mean that. I mean that using a phone over which you have no
>>>>>>>> control puts you in a very small minority. Almost all
>>>>>>>>travellers who use
>>>>>>>> any form of electronic ticketing will do so on a phone that
>>>>>>>>they own, or
>>>>>>>> at least have admin rights over.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK, so an alternative set of goalposts, I'll play.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your contention is that business users with work phones will normally
>>>>>>> have admin rights over them - pardon me while I tiptoe over all these IT
>>>>>>> department dead bodies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many people travel on trains using electronic tickets delivered to a
>>>>>> company mobile phone? And, of those people, how many of them are using a
>>>>>> phone supplied by a company with an IT department which forces them to
>>>>>> use a particular combination of non-standard email app and PDF reader
>>>>>> app which makes it difficult or impossible to get tickets delivered to
>>>>>> that phone by email?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The last time I had a company phone, it was a bog-standard iPhone
>>>>>> maintained by the IT department. Everything was Apple default apps. But,
>>>>>> y'know, that's fine. I'm not an Apple fanboi; I prefer Android on a
>>>>>> phone. But there was nothing that I needed to do on that phone that I
>>>>>> couldn't do. Apple Mail worked fine with the company email system. Apple
>>>>>> Mail opens PDFs natively, it doesn't even need to open an external app
>>>>>> to view them. So it would have been fine for electronic ticketing, if
>>>>>> I'd ever used it for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I can tell, any company phone these days that is controlled by a
>>>>> proper IT department is an iPhone. I guess that’s down to the fractured
>>>>> nature of Android.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from one I have experience with, who are Samsung. Which is also
>>>> due to not having a bottomless pit of money.
>>>
>>>You seem to be terrified about the cost of Apple kit. But companies take
>>>into account the longer service life, so the cost per annum is closer. I
>>>think iPhones are also more controllable and secure. And as you have so
>>>successfully demonstrated in this thread, iPhones are simpler for
>>>non-technical users.
>>>
>>>Any US company thst has a corporate standard will likely choose Apple, but
>>>maybe not very SMEs in Ely.
>>
>>If you've got 50 company phones, it's still a lot of extra money,
>>compared to an entry level Samsung that you are mainly issuing for voice
>>calls and the occasional photo.
>
>That's not how company phones are used.

They are for a lot of companies.

>Your need for an ultra-cheap, secondhand personal phone is not
>representative of business phones.

You tied yourself in a knot. The cheap Samsungs are from my part time
job. My personal phone is a $700 model, albeit bought on clearance.

To that extent it makes me happy that a year after being launched most
of the public don't think they are new and shiny enough, so have to be
virtually given away.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spcpbp$qeu$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:08:09 on Wed, 15 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spcfdt$kum$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:18:37 on Wed, 15 Dec
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <ul44rgh3pooqqimstcdg7bt0tv3npqfi12@4ax.com>, at 14:46:17 on
>>>> Thu, 9 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> Gmail (on my phone) and Apple Mail (on my iPad) work fine for me. Both
>>>>> of them support all the email accounts that I use. Looking at Spark on
>>>>> Google Play, I see that it, too, can connect to Gmail, Exchange and
>>>>> IMAP, and can handle multiple email accounts on the same device. It has
>>>>> a few features which Gmail and Apple Mail don't have (such as the
>>>>> ability to schedule email to be sent in the future), but none of them
>>>>> look like the killer feature that would persuade me to switch.
>>>>
>>>> A killer feature could be along the lines of "how can it show me a
>>>> display with a hundred or so waiting emails to pick from, on such a
>>>> small screen"?
>>>
>>> Use the search function?
>>
>> That only works if you know who has sent you an email, what the subject
>> might be, and so on. Even then I prefer to see them all so I can eyeball
>> the ones which need attention first, rather than doing a dozen
>> sequential speculative searches once an hour.
>
>Wait, wait, come back here with those goalposts!!
>
>I thought we were talking about standing in a rain-swept car park, trying
>to find the email containing the pdf you’ve just been sent after buying
>tickets through a TOC app, having found the ticket office closed and the
>TVM broken?
>
>So you know exactly what you're looking for, no need to prioritise other
>emails in that moment, or searching hourly…

The general case is having all emails delivered to the phone, to be
somehow prioritised.

The specific use-case is being expected to set up special email accounts
to receive PDF tickets on a phone. When the train company really ought
to be smarter than that.
--
Roland Perry

In message <5kpjrghljp0i3ok3mcrnbcreje62jatr3v@4ax.com>, at 12:59:38 on
Wed, 15 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 09:48:47 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:1AQazrZybbuhFAoY@perry.uk...
>>
>>> While I haven't be "getting out" much recently because of the pandemic,
>>> I'm sure there were many trains which just had 13A sockets (not USB
>>> points).
>>
>>If I needed to use my phone or other USB-charged device on a train for a
>>long time (or to leave enough battery for the rest of the day) I'd always
>>take my mains charger in case there wasn't a USB charging socket. Also,
>>charging by mains, using a fast-rate charger (device and USB charger
>>negotiate a higher voltage and/or higher current) is quicker than charging
>>by non-enhanced USB: that may be relevant for a shorter journey where there
>>isn't much charging time on the train.
>>
>>Actually, if I really need to have phone power (and power for other USB
>>devices) all day when I'm on the move, I take a USB battery, but that is
>>fairly heavy, and a lead disappearing into a coat pocket or a bag might
>>attract the attention of anti-terrorist people :-(
>
>USB power packs can be small and light, and still power a phone for the
>day. They can fit in the pocket with the phone
>and short cable.

You've not noticed the huge number of people who carry their phones in
the back-pocket of their jeans?
--
Roland Perry

In message <spb5g8$1vp$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:23:04 on Tue, 14 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>> Doesn't everyone carry a torch in their pocket these days?
>
>Roland probably doesn't know his phone includes a torch, or how to switch
>it on.

I'm struggling to understand what possible motive you have for making
such crassly stupid postings.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spcfdu$kum$3@dont-email.me>, at 10:18:38 on Wed, 15 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <soko3p$ccm$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:19:37 on Mon, 6 Dec 2021,
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 06/12/2021 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <sog0jr$k1t$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:14:03 on Sat, 4 Dec
>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> There’s also nothing to stop you having an entirely different email
>>>>> account, with a separate inbox for tickets. Most email clients handle
>>>>> multiple accounts.
>>
>>>> That's something which doesn't scale on phones. I've tried this,
>>>> specifically the last time this subject cropped up. And beyond about a
>>>> dozen it gets unmanageable.
>>>
>>> You don't need a dozen, just one for tickets.
>>
>> Of all the transactions I might want to do on a phone, what gives trains
>> companies the right to make such unique demands. (btw, the "dozen" is
>> the number of TOCs I might use).
>
>I don't find the concept of 'email a pdf to be shown on my phone' to be in
>any way unique to TOCs.

I've not encountered it when buying from Screwfix, Amazon or AliExpress
to name but a few sites I buy from most frequently.

If you meant transport operators, not TfL or any of the station car park
pirates, either.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spavjm$qqm$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:30 on Tue, 14 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:

>>>> Even using a specific email address for ticket providers is not viable
>>>> as I'm illegally on two email lists neither of which provide the
>>>> legally required link to remove myself for the same.
>>>
>>> Of course it is viable, how long does it take to set up a specific email
>>> address for the purpose?
>>
>> Not long. But it becomes usable when the junk email builds up.
>
>tickets2020@…
>tickets2021@…
>tickets2022@…

And thus you continue to twist the knife, appeasing vendors who
externalise so much of the transactional admin to their customers.
--
Roland Perry

In message <i3fjrgtfch71l506vb0olomqsnp1plkkff@4ax.com>, at 10:04:14 on
Wed, 15 Dec 2021, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:10:14 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <3f59rgl8a60k6mpfdi87j8tf74nt1d273l@4ax.com>, at 12:14:58 on
>>Sat, 11 Dec 2021, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:14:46 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <3o26rgldmt59ln4p41vh2soqfl90tg66k2@4ax.com>, at 08:11:29 on
>>>>Fri, 10 Dec 2021, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 12:11:34 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In message <57rrqgp2qelb6cfe8sjj3otebr3aeikhen@4ax.com>, at 11:00:46 on
>>>>>>Mon, 6 Dec 2021, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>>>>>It worked for Bishop's Stortford to Liverpool St. just fine.
>>>>
>>>>I'll see what the website offers. But...
>>>>
>>>>>Note that in my earlier replies I never claimed you were offered the
>>>>>option to have an mTicket. Just that if you select pdf you seem to get
>>>>>a single ticket than can be used as a pdf (e.g. printed) and also
>>>>>apears in 'My Tickets' on the GA app.
>>>>
>>>>...I wonder why they don't tell customers that might happen?
>>>>
>>>>That's a bit of a big mystery purchase to make, but I might have a poke
>>>>around to see what cheaper fares there are. Mountfitchet to BS perhaps
>>>>(I can get that down to £1.30 with a fictional Student Discount).
>>>
>>>That works. I bought one the other day (in the reverse direction) when
>>>traffic in Stortford meant that my lift would be from Mountfitchet but
>>>my rail ticket only went to BIS.
>>
>>Off we go then...
>>
>>And... "We'll email your tickets shortly to your registered address for
>>you to show on your phone or print. You can also download your ticket to
>>your iOS or Android app".
>>
>>But how? Not terribly useful that the link to their help pages:
>>
>
>It used to be that you went to Your Tickets in the app. All of your
>journeys, new and old, were present. You could select a specific
>ticket and download it. You then needed to activate it before travel.

That's helpful, thanks. So they were capable of pushing at least the
list of transactions to the phone (although it's not working for me at
the moment).

It would also explain why the GA gripper pointed to the "Archived
tickets" button on the home screen, in an attempt to suggest how I could
"A"ctivate the latest one, despite it apparently never having been sent
to the phone. But that screen is blank because I have no archived
tickets, especially before they've ever arrived on the phone.

Next time I'm travelling I'll have another go.

>Now they just appear (for me!). No need to download or to activate,
>hence my earlier comment about an eTicket/mTicket hybrid.
>
>> <https://greateranglia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/greateranglia.cfg/php/endus
>>er/std_alp.php>
>>
>
>Not very helpful, is it?
>
>>...is broken. <sigh> and <sigh> again.

--
Roland Perry

In message <spapun$k2c$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:05:59 on Tue, 14 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp7sjr$knq$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:32:59 on Mon, 13 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sovdt9$qpk$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:32:57 on Fri, 10 Dec
>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <sotnpl$664$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:09:25 on Thu, 9 Dec 2021,
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7
>>>>>>>>Dec 2021,
>>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>>>>>>> might, just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>>>>>>> hundred, it's a bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>>>>>>> this week to expect me to bend over backwards for *their*
>>>>>>>>>>convenience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they
>>>>>>>>>>could be bothered to keep their ticket machines operational,
>>>>>>>>>>or provide PERTIS machines, so passengers weren't forced to
>>>>>>>>>>buy at the last minute using their mobile, stood in the rain
>>>>>>>>>>in the station car park, on pain of a £100 fine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally if
>>>>>>>>> it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I
>>>>>>>>>got out of
>>>>>>>>> the car.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you buy your tickets at home/in the car it really doesn’t
>>>>>>> matter if the
>>>>>>> TVM is working or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only if the flow actually *has* e-tickets available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But you've lost track of the reason for this debate: it's the
>>>>>> circumstances that you arrive at the station to find that the TVM you
>>>>>> wanted to buy a paper ticket from is broken, and next to it is a big
>>>>>> hectoring sign all abut £100 fines for travelling without a ticket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With one of the most common rail tickets I buy being £1.90, it's really
>>>>>> not proportionate to be ordering them in advance from home.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What would be your reaction when boarding a bus if the driver said
>>>>>> "sorry, my ticket machine is broken, you must go back home and buy a
>>>>>> ticket there first". (And of course the next bus isn't until an hour
>>>>>> later).
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have any evidence that that’s what the TOC’s response
>>>>>would be if
>>>>> you boarded the train without a ticket because the TVM was broken?
>>>>
>>>> It's not an equivalent situation…
>>>
>>> So why on earth did you bring it up?
>>
>> Because "go home and buy a ticket" is what the station signage is in
>> effect saying. And with rail tickets generally cheaper than bus tickets
>> in East Cambs, they are more likely to be used as a substitute for buses
>> than in some other parts of the country.
>
>So you think it is an equivalent situation, then…

Yes, I have a five mile trip to make, a choice of bus or train, and the
biggest determinant is when the next service is. I'm not too posh to get
a bus, especially as that saves me ten minutes walking. But the trains
are cheaper [apart from later in the day when they are free], and more
frequent.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spcl85$su0$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:57:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp7sjr$knq$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:32:59 on Mon, 13 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sp7qaj$6n7$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:53:56 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <sov2qn$eb4$6@dont-email.me>, at 08:23:51 on Fri, 10 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 09/12/2021 19:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>>>>>>> might,  just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>>>>>>> hundred, it's a  bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>>>>>>> this week to expect  me to bend over backwards for *their*
>>>>>>>>>> convenience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could
>>>>>>>>>> be bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide
>>>>>>>>>> PERTIS machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last
>>>>>>>>>> minute using their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car
>>>>>>>>>> park, on pain of a £100 fine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally
>>>>>>>>> if it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got
>>>>>>>>> out of the car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't stop you going back to the car to get out f the rain or even
>>>>>>> sheltering under the station canopy while you order the ticket. No need
>>>>>>> to stand in the rain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The car is parked at least a hundred yards away, the station has no
>>>>>> canopy, and the train is due in five minutes (which would be plenty of
>>>>>> time to buy a ticket from a working TVM).
>>>>>
>>>>> Won’t you get wet using the TVM?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but only for about twenty seconds.
>>>
>>> No, you’ll get wet for the 5 minutes you’re waiting for the
>>>train. Next.
>>
>> The time interval in question is when one puts down the umbrella,
>> because I don't have three arms.
>
>I’ve not come across a TVM which requires 2 arms to operate it. Can you
>explain?

At the very least, one hand to hold my wallet, and another to open it
and extract the Credit Card and pay. That's assuming I can actually get
to the wallet in my inside pocket of the raincoat, one-handed.
--
Roland Perry

In message <fiejrgdpett2qoc77nmeg0m8f61glea7vv@4ax.com>, at 09:56:02 on
Wed, 15 Dec 2021, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:16:11 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <jl5frg91mcaoougmr7qqf5f7tps52pg4t1@4ax.com>, at 18:57:24 on
>>Mon, 13 Dec 2021, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 15:45:47 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <sov5ho$27d$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:10:16 on Fri, 10 Dec
>>>>2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 09/12/2021 19:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec 2021,
>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>>>>>> might,  just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>>>>>> hundred, it's a  bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>>>>>> this week to expect  me to bend over backwards for *their*
>>>>>>>>>convenience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could be
>>>>>>>>> bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide PERTIS
>>>>>>>>> machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last minute
>>>>>>>>> using their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car park, on
>>>>>>>>> pain of a £100 fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally if
>>>>>>>> it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got out
>>>>>>>> of the car.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't stop you going back to the car to get out f the rain or even
>>>>>> sheltering under the station canopy while you order the ticket. No need
>>>>>> to stand in the rain.
>>>>>
>>>>>The real point is that once you can cope with buying electronic tickets,
>>>>>which seems to be Roland’s problem, you don’t need to worry about the
>>>>>existence of a TVM, rain or no rain.
>>>>
>>>>The problem is the patchy nature of e-ticketing.
>>>>
>>>>>So far his arguments have been that he doesn’t like the apps (excuses
>>>>>various), so folk have suggested he uses the emailed pdf, which then
>>>>>generates a long list of spurious reasons why that’s not workable either.
>>>>
>>>>The reasons aren't spurious, and only arise because the e-ticketing
>>>>platform is unable (by design) to deliver the tickets to my phone by a
>>>>less last-century method.
>>>>
>>>>Or as I've found out the last couple of days, unable to deliver them at
>>>>all. ["We've emailed you the PDF" - panto 'oh no you haven't']
>>>
>>>It sounds very much to me as if you've managed to log in to the app
>>>using a different email address to the one you used to buy the tickets
>>>(you did create an account rather than buy as a guest, I hope?).
>>
>>I haven't made that rookie mistake! And it's something I specifically
>>double-checked before buying my tickets a few days ago.
>>
>>And of course that wouldn't explain the lack-of-arrival of the PDF (when
>>I did get the order confirmation) for the first one.
>
>True, but there does seem to be something amiss with your account.
>You've extrapolated from this to claim that GA tickets don't do what I
>have told you they certainly do do (arrive as a sort of hybrid
>eTicket/mTicket, in your terms).
>
>I never got a fix for my inability to use the app earlier this year;
>it took a phone reset to resolve. But I didn't come to the conclusion
>that the Android version of the app was universally broken.
>
>I belive you that GA ticketing doesn't work for you. I'd be grateful
>if you'd accept my word that it works in at least one case.

Indeed, and when (/if) GA get back to me I'll try to enlist their help
in finding out what's amiss.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 14:14:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <spcpbp$qeu$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:08:09 on Wed, 15 Dec
>2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spcfdt$kum$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:18:37 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <ul44rgh3pooqqimstcdg7bt0tv3npqfi12@4ax.com>, at 14:46:17 on
>>>>> Thu, 9 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gmail (on my phone) and Apple Mail (on my iPad) work fine for me. Both
>>>>>> of them support all the email accounts that I use. Looking at Spark on
>>>>>> Google Play, I see that it, too, can connect to Gmail, Exchange and
>>>>>> IMAP, and can handle multiple email accounts on the same device. It has
>>>>>> a few features which Gmail and Apple Mail don't have (such as the
>>>>>> ability to schedule email to be sent in the future), but none of them
>>>>>> look like the killer feature that would persuade me to switch.
>>>>>
>>>>> A killer feature could be along the lines of "how can it show me a
>>>>> display with a hundred or so waiting emails to pick from, on such a
>>>>> small screen"?
>>>>
>>>> Use the search function?
>>>
>>> That only works if you know who has sent you an email, what the subject
>>> might be, and so on. Even then I prefer to see them all so I can eyeball
>>> the ones which need attention first, rather than doing a dozen
>>> sequential speculative searches once an hour.
>>
>>Wait, wait, come back here with those goalposts!!
>>
>>I thought we were talking about standing in a rain-swept car park, trying
>>to find the email containing the pdf you’ve just been sent after buying
>>tickets through a TOC app, having found the ticket office closed and the
>>TVM broken?
>>
>>So you know exactly what you're looking for, no need to prioritise other
>>emails in that moment, or searching hourly…
>
>The general case is having all emails delivered to the phone, to be
>somehow prioritised.
>
>The specific use-case is being expected to set up special email accounts
>to receive PDF tickets on a phone. When the train company really ought
>to be smarter than that.

You are simply unable to accept that you're the one stuck in the last century. Doing emails on the phone has been normal
practice for many years, and that includes viewing PDFs without throwing a hissy fit.

On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 14:42:48 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <spb5g8$1vp$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:23:04 on Tue, 14 Dec
>2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> Doesn't everyone carry a torch in their pocket these days?
>>
>>Roland probably doesn't know his phone includes a torch, or how to switch
>>it on.
>
>I'm struggling to understand what possible motive you have for making
>such crassly stupid postings.

Well, do you know how to use the torch in your phone?

In message <spcsv6$kn2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:09:41 on Wed, 15 Dec
2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:

>I book my tickets on-line just before I leave home or the previous
>evening unless I'm using advance fares.
>
>Why can't Roland just order his tickets on an Android app so there's no
>problem transferring them to his phone?

Partly because it takes far longer than operating a TVM, but also
because I'm often not sure I want to travel until I get to the station.

Do you buy bus tickets, or tube fares in central London, in advance?
--
Roland Perry

In message <spaiki$uea$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:01:06 on Tue, 14 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp7uc4$nkk$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:03:00 on Mon, 13 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>>>>> I keep meaning to study the BBC Breakfast (etc) clocks in more
>>>>>>> detail to see how far off they are, especially as one of their Covid
>>>>>>> geeks has a digital clock on the wall behind him. I have two adjacent
>>>>>>> TVs, one on Freesat, the other on Freeview, and they are about two
>>>>>>> seconds apart.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One has the signal travelling a lot further than the other. Add in he
>>>>>> digital delays on each tx chain (and rx chain) and you are going to get
>>>>>> noticeable variations between nominally the same stations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't superficially explain why the terrestrial version is lagging
>>>>> the satellite (although the explanation has to be the terrestrial
>>>>> transmitter is getting a satellite feed, and is adding in a decode/
>>>>> recode delay). It's about two seconds.
>>>>
>>>> Are they the same model of TV/decoder? Do they have a PVR function that
>>>> might be intercepting the signal before displaying it? I’m not familiar
>>>> with digital TV or audio broadcasting but I do just about enough about
>>>> media streaming to be dangerous.
>>>
>>> Let’s try that again: I do know just about enough about media streaming to
>>> be dangerous.
>>
>> My impression is that the TV programme has to be explicitly
>> de-multiplexed from the satellite receiver at the relay station, and
>> then re-multiplexed with other channels before terrestrial transmission.
>> Hence the delay of about two seconds.
>
>Nope. In the UK multiplexes are assembled centrally to allow for the gains
>you get from statistical multiplexing and the cost of a decent on the fly
>compressor. Sat feeds to far flung transmitter stations are from a
>different satellite feed (and a different satellite position I think) to
>the normal domestic ones and are the fully assembled multiplex. Some of the
>emergency stations erected in the wake of the Billsdale main transmitter
>fire are being fed this way.

OK, so we have two distribution chains:

Studio to FreeSat to home &
Studio to (speculated via a proprietary satellite) to terrestrial
transmitter, to home.

And the latter takes two seconds longer. Why?

I'm sticking my neck out that studio to landline to terrestrial
transmitter to home, would normally be expected to be faster, rather
than slower, than going via satellite.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spavjo$qqm$10@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:33 on Tue, 14 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:

>Tesco's latest scam, which I'm now wise to after being stung twice [1], is
>to have what looks like a meal deal or 3-for-£1.50 (etc) but which is
>actually for clubcard holders only.

Surely you have a Tesco Loyalty card on your phone?

[I know they exist, because my wife went to Tesco six months ago and
forgot to take her plastic card, so we spent an interesting fifteen
minutes getting a work-alike pushed to her phone].

As for the so-called "scam", those offers have quite distinctive yellow
labelling.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spavjm$qqm$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:30 on Tue, 14 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>
>>>>> Even using a specific email address for ticket providers is not viable
>>>>> as I'm illegally on two email lists neither of which provide the
>>>>> legally required link to remove myself for the same.
>>>>
>>>> Of course it is viable, how long does it take to set up a specific email
>>>> address for the purpose?
>>>
>>> Not long. But it becomes usable when the junk email builds up.
>>
>> tickets2020@…
>> tickets2021@…
>> tickets2022@…
>
> And thus you continue to twist the knife, appeasing vendors who
> externalise so much of the transactional admin to their customers.

I think we need to give up. Roland appears to live in a parallel world to
the rest of us.

In message <spbbbk$499$1@dont-email.me>, at 00:03:00 on Wed, 15 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
><martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 14/12/2021 20:42, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You seem to be describing Tesco who issue two types of voucher :-
>>>> 1.Money off, in proportion to the accumulated points.
>>>> 2.Money off, not obviously related to points and valid for limited
>>>> periods for purchases over a certain amount.
>>>> The second type seems to have arrived more often in recent times.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Tesco's latest scam, which I'm now wise to after being stung twice [1], is
>>> to have what looks like a meal deal or 3-for-£1.50 (etc) but which is
>>> actually for clubcard holders only.
>>>
>>> [1] I already only shop there when there's nowhere else convenient, so a
>>> one-person boycott would inconvenience only myself
>>
>> The only use I have for Tesco is the very occasional distress purchase
>> or the use of their rest room which conveniently is between home and the
>> railway station. I prefer to walk three times the distance to Morrisons
>> or four times to Aldi.
>
>Just curious, why?
>
>Personally, I prefer Waitrose, Sainsbury's and M&S to Tesco,

The first three are all worse value for money.

>and have never set foot in a Morrisons,

The Midlander's Waitrose (inherited from Safeway).

>Aldi or Lidl. I'm not impressed with the Morrisson shop on Amazon.

Lidl is somewhat downmarket from Aldi, but has a better selection of
authentic German produce (if that's what you are looking for, which I
accept might be a minority pursuit).

Aldi has very good value staple items, and many of their non-food
"Special Buys" are things that are very hard to find anywhere else.
Although they are also impossible-to-find in Aldi the other 50 weeks of
the year!
--
Roland Perry

On 15/12/2021 15:12, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <spcsv6$kn2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:09:41 on Wed, 15 Dec
> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>
>> I book my tickets on-line just before I leave home or the previous
>> evening unless I'm using advance fares.
>>
>> Why can't Roland just order his tickets on an Android app so there's
>> no problem transferring them to his phone?
>
> Partly because it takes far longer than operating a TVM, but also
> because I'm often not sure I want to travel until I get to the station.
>
> Do you buy bus tickets, or tube fares in central London, in advance?
It doesn't take far longer. Admittedly it takes a little longer but not
far longer. It is my policy not to use shared screens if at all possible:-
https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/28/poo-found-on-every-mcdonalds-touchscreen-tested-8178486/

I don't travel by bus. There no need because my local railway station
is within walking distance.

I don't travel to London. Only through it on a pre-booked ticket.

In message <spcs1d$dru$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:53:49 on Wed, 15 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <4KF5hmunlMuhFAZN@perry.uk>, at 16:42:15 on Tue, 14 Dec 2021,
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>>>>> I keep meaning to study the BBC Breakfast (etc) clocks in more
>>>>>>> detail to see how far off they are, especially as one of their Covid
>>>>>>> geeks has a digital clock on the wall behind him. I have two adjacent
>>>>>>> TVs, one on Freesat, the other on Freeview, and they are about two
>>>>>>> seconds apart.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One has the signal travelling a lot further than the other. Add in he
>>>>>> digital delays on each tx chain (and rx chain) and you are going to get
>>>>>> noticeable variations between nominally the same stations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't superficially explain why the terrestrial version is lagging
>>>>> the satellite (although the explanation has to be the terrestrial
>>>>> transmitter is getting a satellite feed, and is adding in a decode/
>>>>> recode delay). It's about two seconds.
>>>>
>>>> Are they the same model of TV/decoder? Do they have a PVR function that
>>>> might be intercepting the signal before displaying it? I’m not familiar
>>>> with digital TV or audio broadcasting but I do just about enough about
>>>> media streaming to be dangerous.
>>>
>>> Different brands, and it's the satellite one which has the PVR function
>>> built in (but annoyingly, requires an external USB HDD, and won't
>>> recognise an external thumb drive[1]). But I do have a "separates"
>>> Freeview PVR plugged into the terrestrial one, so later I'll see what
>>> the timings are on that, compared to the Freesat.
>>
>> Exactly the same amount of delay. Two seconds (or however long it takes
>> the announcer to say "and on BBC iPlayer").
>>
>> That's a helpful thing to measure because they always pause after that.
>>
>> So the satellite TV goes "blah blah blah trailer crap crap crap
>> available live and on BBC iPlayer [silence]", and the terrestrial TV
>> echoes over the silence "and on BBC iPlayer".
>
>Slight diversion: on the occasions when there is a clock on screen, if it’s
>showing seconds how far are they away from GMT/UTC/whathaveyou?

Haven't got to that yet, not least because they are usually reluctant to
show clocks with seconds on them.

But the dum-di-dum-di-pling-plog <lets fill in a routine minute-long
pregnant pause waiting for the top of the hour> dum-di-dum-di-pling-plog
screen, on whatever BBC 24hrs is called this week, does have a seconds
countdown.

But it's actually difficult to closely *watch* screens in two different
rooms at the same time, whereas I *can* listen to two sets of sound.
--
Roland Perry