In message <spnsut$b3k$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:17:01 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spnqft$q7t$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:34:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <aseurgdied8c2mcvba76iv5lplotq1k8kq@4ax.com>, at 14:03:21 on
>>>> Sun, 19 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 17:11:27 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>><roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <spl2gk$1n7$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:24 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <spj9nl$nop$6@dont-email.me>, at 00:24:21 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The usability issue is why the train company is not sending
>>>>>>>>>>the tickets
>>>>>>>>>> I've been buying [for their trains, between their stations]
>>>>>>>>>>to its own
>>>>>>>>>> app's wallet. (I note no-one is prepared to address this fundamental
>>>>>>>>>> issue, perhaps because they know they have no answer).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I tried it, and the ticket was delivered seamlessly to the app.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps you should contact GA directly, quoting your transaction
>>>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>>> number, to determine why your transaction failed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I feel that would allow a more successful resolution than asking
>>>>>>>>> on Usenet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps you missed the part where I said I *had* contacted them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tick Tock, they are now five [*working* - I didn't notice that
>>>>>>>>the first
>>>>>>>> time] days into the 10 days they claim to answer 90% of
>>>>>>>>enquiries. Feels
>>>>>>>> like much longer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And of course, they are sending replies to the ticketing email address
>>>>>>>> on my mobile phone, which I don't usually look at unless I'm
>>>>>>>>expecting a
>>>>>>>> ticket that I just bought to be delivered. But I did check again just
>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why don't you also get those emails on your PC?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because they are sent to the email address I set up specially (by
>>>>>> popular demand) for my phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> How long would it take you to add it to your PC email client
>>>>>accounts list?
>>>>
>>>> Quite a while, because currently it only picks up classic email (to read
>>>> offline), not webmail like gmail being turned into offline mail.
>>>>
>>>> I know it's possible, but hasn't been necessary so far.
>>>
>>> Why do you think gmail is webmail?
>>
>> Because that's what it was.
>>
>>> I have a gmail account that I’ve never read by webmail. Gmail
>>> supports IMAP.
>>
>> Yes, they've later somewhat clumsily bolted that on.
>
>Yes but you are asserting that this is what it is now, as an excuse for not
>doing what’s suggested.
>
>How do you defend the assertion that it is clumsily bolted on? It’s been
>available since 2007, just three years after the service started.
>
>I’ve never considered my use of gmail to be any different to imap and
>exchange accounts on other platforms.

And I've never considered it as anything but a Hotmail clone, intended
to be used as webmail. And nothing wrong with that, because users just
need a browser rather than an email client.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spj9nk$nop$3@dont-email.me>, at 00:24:20 on Sat, 18 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:

>[Snip (mostly) tale of woe]
>
>For the purposes of this thread, I've just made a trial purchase, using the
>GA iPhone app, of a £2.20 for off-peak day return with 16-25 railcard
>(which I don't possess!) Soham-Ely next Tuesday. No I won't be using it!
>
>I'll admit to slightly dismayed that Apple Pay wasn't an option, nor was
>there a 'scan your card' option. Still, PayPal saved me much typing of
>digits.
>
>Ticket receipt email arrived instantly. Ticket available in app instantly.
>Ticket email followed a few seconds later, though sorted automatically to
>"Other Inbox" rather than "Focused Inbox" by Outlook. The ticket is very
>much a PDF attachment to the email, rather than a link to download it.
>Ticket present in the 'walllet' part of the app.
>
>No I'm not prepared to repeat the process until it fails, in order to
>determine the failure rate!!

I'd like to think it worked for most people most of the time. My role
here is mainly to point out how it failed to work for me. Which was
doubly disappointing because it was the first real e-ticket I'd bought
this year.

And getting back to the matter of penalty fares, the station I was
travelling from, according to Nationalrail didn't have any TVMs,
although it turns out they were misinformed and it has two. (They have
since corrected it).
--
Roland Perry

In message <spnue0$jkn$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:42:08 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 19/12/2021 17:27, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <spmsgf$mqa$2@dont-email.me>, at 09:03:11 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>> Change for people unable to use plastic.
>>>
>>> Vanishingly small after 18 months of Covid.

>> Get more than a few miles outside you major metro areas, and ask
>>again!

>I'm outside a major metropolitan area.

I thought you were in Southampton.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spnv2m$ot5$4@dont-email.me>, at 18:53:10 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <splgpr$2tl$2@dont-email.me>, at 20:37:15 on Sat, 18 Dec
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And that's not too disjoint from the idea that if a TVM isn't working
>>>> there should be a £1-in-the-slot PERTIS machine as a gesture to the
>>>> idea you aren't entirely fare-dodger.
>>>
>>> Who carries coins in 2021?!
>>
>> I have a few, for supermarket trolleys etc. Or does your supermarket
>> trolley park have barcode readers?
>
>The supermarkets I use don't have coin-trolleys,

I prefer to use shops that don't, but increasingly councils make it a
condition to try to combat customers dumping trolleys all over the town.

>but in any case I rarely use a trolley anyway.

And I rarely buy so few groceries that they would fit in a basket.

>If I encountered such a supermarket I would indeed be
>somewhat stumped; perhaps I'll put a pound coin in the car somewhere.
>
>> It also seems a bit of an overkill to use a credit card via phone to pay
>> for 50p of off-peak parking at the station.
>
>I used to think like that about 25 years ago. The world has moved on since
>then, though, and now it seems overkill to carry coins unused for months on
>the off-chance that I might one day make a transaction under £1.

There are enough use-cases that it does seem necessary, although one of
them, the toilets at Kings Cross, went free-of-charge not so long ago.
The turnstiles there didn't take credit cards.
--
Roland Perry

In message <2v0vrgd1b4lfug9694ik6lgsbeh3da1cr4@4ax.com>, at 19:14:10 on
Sun, 19 Dec 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 09:03:11 +0000, Graeme Wall
><rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 19/12/2021 04:00, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 20:37:15 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And that's not too disjoint from the idea that if a TVM isn't working
>>>>> there should be a £1-in-the-slot PERTIS machine as a gesture to the
>>>>> idea you aren't entirely fare-dodger.
>>>>
>>>> Who carries coins in 2021?!
>>>>
>>> <raises hand>
>>> Supermarket trolleys.
>>
>>Got a token on my keyring
>>
>>> Small purchases.
>>
>>tap the phone
>>
>"Cash only below five pounds."

My local garden centre still has that restriction. (Although it's ten
pounds). Similarly, both the old fashioned hardware stores in the 'High
St', which although a bit expensive for almost anything, are the place
to buy odds and ends other shops don't stock.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spnsut$b3k$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:17:01 on Sun, 19 Dec
> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spnqft$q7t$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:34:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <aseurgdied8c2mcvba76iv5lplotq1k8kq@4ax.com>, at 14:03:21 on
>>>>> Sun, 19 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 17:11:27 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <spl2gk$1n7$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:24 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <spj9nl$nop$6@dont-email.me>, at 00:24:21 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The usability issue is why the train company is not sending
>>>>>>>>>>> the tickets
>>>>>>>>>>> I've been buying [for their trains, between their stations]
>>>>>>>>>>> to its own
>>>>>>>>>>> app's wallet. (I note no-one is prepared to address this fundamental
>>>>>>>>>>> issue, perhaps because they know they have no answer).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I tried it, and the ticket was delivered seamlessly to the app.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps you should contact GA directly, quoting your transaction
>>>>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>>>> number, to determine why your transaction failed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I feel that would allow a more successful resolution than asking
>>>>>>>>>> on Usenet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps you missed the part where I said I *had* contacted them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tick Tock, they are now five [*working* - I didn't notice that
>>>>>>>>> the first
>>>>>>>>> time] days into the 10 days they claim to answer 90% of
>>>>>>>>> enquiries. Feels
>>>>>>>>> like much longer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And of course, they are sending replies to the ticketing email address
>>>>>>>>> on my mobile phone, which I don't usually look at unless I'm
>>>>>>>>> expecting a
>>>>>>>>> ticket that I just bought to be delivered. But I did check again just
>>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why don't you also get those emails on your PC?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because they are sent to the email address I set up specially (by
>>>>>>> popular demand) for my phone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How long would it take you to add it to your PC email client
>>>>>> accounts list?
>>>>>
>>>>> Quite a while, because currently it only picks up classic email (to read
>>>>> offline), not webmail like gmail being turned into offline mail.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know it's possible, but hasn't been necessary so far.
>>>>
>>>> Why do you think gmail is webmail?
>>>
>>> Because that's what it was.
>>>
>>>> I have a gmail account that I’ve never read by webmail. Gmail
>>>> supports IMAP.
>>>
>>> Yes, they've later somewhat clumsily bolted that on.
>>
>> Yes but you are asserting that this is what it is now, as an excuse for not
>> doing what’s suggested.
>>
>> How do you defend the assertion that it is clumsily bolted on? It’s been
>> available since 2007, just three years after the service started.
>>
>> I’ve never considered my use of gmail to be any different to imap and
>> exchange accounts on other platforms.
>
> And I've never considered it as anything but a Hotmail clone, intended
> to be used as webmail. And nothing wrong with that, because users just
> need a browser rather than an email client.

But you can’t just dismiss it for the use suggested to you, simply because
you’ve incorrectly classified it in your mind. Even Hotmail wasn’t/isn’t
just webmail. In fact I don’t know of any email service of any significance
that is only webmail in its architecture. (I believe BT might restrict
their email service to webmail if you leave BT and don’t pay an ongoing
fee.)

On 20/12/2021 06:46, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <spnue0$jkn$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:42:08 on Sun, 19 Dec
> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 19/12/2021 17:27, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <spmsgf$mqa$2@dont-email.me>, at 09:03:11 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> Change for people unable to use plastic.
>>>>
>>>> Vanishingly small after 18 months of Covid.
>
>>>  Get more than a few miles outside you major metro areas, and ask again!
>
>> I'm outside a major metropolitan area.
>
> I thought you were in Southampton.

Not for the last 5 years.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spnv2m$ot5$4@dont-email.me>, at 18:53:10 on Sun, 19 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <splgpr$2tl$2@dont-email.me>, at 20:37:15 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And that's not too disjoint from the idea that if a TVM isn't working
>>>>> there should be a £1-in-the-slot PERTIS machine as a gesture to the
>>>>> idea you aren't entirely fare-dodger.
>>>>
>>>> Who carries coins in 2021?!
>>>
>>> I have a few, for supermarket trolleys etc. Or does your supermarket
>>> trolley park have barcode readers?
>>
>> The supermarkets I use don't have coin-trolleys,
>
> I prefer to use shops that don't, but increasingly councils make it a
> condition to try to combat customers dumping trolleys all over the town.
>
>> but in any case I rarely use a trolley anyway.
>
> And I rarely buy so few groceries that they would fit in a basket.
>
>> If I encountered such a supermarket I would indeed be
>> somewhat stumped; perhaps I'll put a pound coin in the car somewhere.
>>
>>> It also seems a bit of an overkill to use a credit card via phone to pay
>>> for 50p of off-peak parking at the station.
>>
>> I used to think like that about 25 years ago. The world has moved on since
>> then, though, and now it seems overkill to carry coins unused for months on
>> the off-chance that I might one day make a transaction under £1.
>
> There are enough use-cases that it does seem necessary, although one of
> them, the toilets at Kings Cross, went free-of-charge not so long ago.

Several years ago, like most major NR stations.

> The turnstiles there didn't take credit cards.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spnsut$b3k$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:17:01 on Sun, 19 Dec
> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spnqft$q7t$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:34:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <aseurgdied8c2mcvba76iv5lplotq1k8kq@4ax.com>, at 14:03:21 on
>>>>> Sun, 19 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 17:11:27 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <spl2gk$1n7$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:24 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why don't you also get those emails on your PC?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because they are sent to the email address I set up specially (by
>>>>>>> popular demand) for my phone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How long would it take you to add it to your PC email client
>>>>>> accounts list?
>>>>>
>>>>> Quite a while, because currently it only picks up classic email (to read
>>>>> offline), not webmail like gmail being turned into offline mail.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know it's possible, but hasn't been necessary so far.
>>>>
>>>> Why do you think gmail is webmail?
>>>
>>> Because that's what it was.
>>>
>>>> I have a gmail account that I’ve never read by webmail. Gmail
>>>> supports IMAP.
>>>
>>> Yes, they've later somewhat clumsily bolted that on.
>>
>> Yes but you are asserting that this is what it is now, as an excuse for not
>> doing what’s suggested.
>>
>> How do you defend the assertion that it is clumsily bolted on? It’s been
>> available since 2007, just three years after the service started.
>>
>> I’ve never considered my use of gmail to be any different to imap and
>> exchange accounts on other platforms.
>
> And I've never considered it as anything but a Hotmail clone, intended
> to be used as webmail. And nothing wrong with that, because users just
> need a browser rather than an email client.

I use hotmail. With Outlook. Just because something has a webmail interface
available, doesn't mean it doesn't work with conventional email clients.

Incidentally the hotmail website and the outlook iOS app have a virtually
identical appearance and functionality. Including trivial access to
folders!

You do know there are public webmail websites available into which you can
(if you trust them) put in information for any POP3 or IMAP mail account
and access them via webmail, yes?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spnv2m$ot5$4@dont-email.me>, at 18:53:10 on Sun, 19 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <splgpr$2tl$2@dont-email.me>, at 20:37:15 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And that's not too disjoint from the idea that if a TVM isn't working
>>>>> there should be a £1-in-the-slot PERTIS machine as a gesture to the
>>>>> idea you aren't entirely fare-dodger.
>>>>
>>>> Who carries coins in 2021?!
>>>
>>> I have a few, for supermarket trolleys etc. Or does your supermarket
>>> trolley park have barcode readers?
>>
>> The supermarkets I use don't have coin-trolleys,
>
> I prefer to use shops that don't, but increasingly councils make it a
> condition to try to combat customers dumping trolleys all over the town.
>

Aah, the supermarkets I use (except ones too small to have trolleys) aren't
in town.

>> but in any case I rarely use a trolley anyway.
>
> And I rarely buy so few groceries that they would fit in a basket.
>

Our main shopping is delivered, so visiting an actual physical shop is
usually only for top-ups.

>> If I encountered such a supermarket I would indeed be
>> somewhat stumped; perhaps I'll put a pound coin in the car somewhere.
>>
>>> It also seems a bit of an overkill to use a credit card via phone to pay
>>> for 50p of off-peak parking at the station.
>>
>> I used to think like that about 25 years ago. The world has moved on since
>> then, though, and now it seems overkill to carry coins unused for months on
>> the off-chance that I might one day make a transaction under £1.
>
> There are enough use-cases that it does seem necessary, although one of
> them, the toilets at Kings Cross, went free-of-charge not so long ago.
> The turnstiles there didn't take credit cards.

Incidentally regarding forecourt airlines, one of the other use-cases
mentioned here, one of the city centre petrol stations in Bristol obviously
had a problem with cash thefts from the air machine, so it now takes tokens
which you purchase from the shop. Perhaps this is a solution for paying for
toilets.

I stopped carrying cash during lockdown 1 when I realised I'd been carrying
the same coins and notes untouched for some considerable time. I haven't
yet encountered anything to make me routinely start carrying cash again.
Even Cafe Loco at Worcester Shrub Hill station takes cards now! (That was
my last place really, "I must take cash today so I can buy a bacon roll".

On holiday in Portugal a few months ago we did encounter a couple of
cash-only places, conveniently situated very close to a cash machine; then
had to make a conscious effort to actually spend the remainder…

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 18:53:09 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spn7ch$nbf$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:08:49 on Sun, 19 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spj30t$ffe$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:29:49 on Fri, 17 Dec
>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
>>>>>>> with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No they don't, they simply don't buy the tickets in the first place, or
>>>>>> if they do, have so little other email traffic that the other couple of
>>>>>> hundred emails a day which serious email users receive, don't swamp
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Evidence, please.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the salami-slicing I described in a posting a few minutes
>>>> ago, I just don't see that many people waving PDFs (of any kind) at
>>>> gates and grippers.
>>>
>>> On the relatively few times I’ve been on trains in the last couple of years
>>> I can echo other posters’ experience that a significant number of other
>>> passengers wave phones at grippers and gates. I can’t tell if what they
>>> are displaying are PDFs, if that’s what’s important to you. In-app wallets
>>> might contain, PDFs, of course.
>>
>> Of a train with perhaps 200 people on it, how many? And are these
>> largely inner suburban, outer suburban, or intercity-style trains?
>>
>
>Having just quizzed a conveniently nearby ticketing person about this, the
>answer is approximately 150 out of your 200 passengers, and no difference
>across train types. Only ten people on the train would be using ITSO.
>
>
Don't you just hate it when people are rude enough to ruin good
arguments by introducing facts?

>Anna Noyd-Dryver

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 18:53:09 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spn7ch$nbf$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:08:49 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spj30t$ffe$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:29:49 on Fri, 17 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
>>>>>>>> with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No they don't, they simply don't buy the tickets in the first place, or
>>>>>>> if they do, have so little other email traffic that the other couple of
>>>>>>> hundred emails a day which serious email users receive, don't swamp
>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Evidence, please.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apart from the salami-slicing I described in a posting a few minutes
>>>>> ago, I just don't see that many people waving PDFs (of any kind) at
>>>>> gates and grippers.
>>>>
>>>> On the relatively few times I’ve been on trains in the last couple of years
>>>> I can echo other posters’ experience that a significant number of other
>>>> passengers wave phones at grippers and gates. I can’t tell if what they
>>>> are displaying are PDFs, if that’s what’s important to you. In-app wallets
>>>> might contain, PDFs, of course.
>>>
>>> Of a train with perhaps 200 people on it, how many? And are these
>>> largely inner suburban, outer suburban, or intercity-style trains?
>>>
>>
>> Having just quizzed a conveniently nearby ticketing person about this, the
>> answer is approximately 150 out of your 200 passengers, and no difference
>> across train types. Only ten people on the train would be using ITSO.
>>
>>
> Don't you just hate it when people are rude enough to ruin good
> arguments by introducing facts?
>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>

Phone ticketing has become mainstream. Just like air travel (when that was
a thing). For many years people would still be waving print at home tickets
and then all of a sudden it flipped to on phone tickets. Now you hardly see
anyone presenting a paper boarding pass.

On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 18:53:08 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spj30t$ffe$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:29:49 on Fri, 17 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
>>>>> with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones,
>>>>
>>>> No they don't, they simply don't buy the tickets in the first place, or
>>>> if they do, have so little other email traffic that the other couple of
>>>> hundred emails a day which serious email users receive, don't swamp
>>>> them.
>>>
>>> Evidence, please.
>>
>> Apart from the salami-slicing I described in a posting a few minutes
>> ago, I just don't see that many people waving PDFs (of any kind) at
>> gates and grippers.
>
>I've just quizzed my other half on this, who is a train manager (aka guard
>aka gripper).
>
>Apparently "most" people have tickets on their phones.
>
>Very rough estimate figures:
>75% phone tickets
>20% paper tickets
>5% ITSO tickets
>
>No difference in proportions between London trains and local trains.

I'm surprised that the phone share is quite that high, and also that it's the same on all train types. I'd have guessed
a bit lower, but I guess I'm out of date.

On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 18:19:53 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spfgab$p4t$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spavjm$qqm$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:30 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even using a specific email address for ticket providers is not viable
>>>>>>>> as I'm illegally on two email lists neither of which provide the
>>>>>>>> legally required link to remove myself for the same.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course it is viable, how long does it take to set up a specific email
>>>>>>> address for the purpose?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not long. But it becomes usable when the junk email builds up.
>>>>>
>>>>> tickets2020@…
>>>>> tickets2021@…
>>>>> tickets2022@…
>>>>
>>>> And thus you continue to twist the knife, appeasing vendors who
>>>> externalise so much of the transactional admin to their customers.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
>>> with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones,
>>
>> No they don't, they simply don't buy the tickets in the first place,
>>
>
>I've listed numerous other instances in which people receive and show PDFs
>on their phone.
>
>If we wish to expand it from 'receive and show' to 'receive, read and keep'
>PDF on their phone, we can add to that list, receipts for many online and
>real-world purchases, quotes from builders and other tradespeople,
>treatment plan and receipts from my dentist, etc.

It's also perfectly possible to file attachments in something like Dropbox, so they can be shared across devices. I
often do that.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:38:47 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 18:53:09 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spn7ch$nbf$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:08:49 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spj30t$ffe$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:29:49 on Fri, 17 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
>>>>>>>>> with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No they don't, they simply don't buy the tickets in the first place, or
>>>>>>>> if they do, have so little other email traffic that the other couple of
>>>>>>>> hundred emails a day which serious email users receive, don't swamp
>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Evidence, please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apart from the salami-slicing I described in a posting a few minutes
>>>>>> ago, I just don't see that many people waving PDFs (of any kind) at
>>>>>> gates and grippers.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the relatively few times I?ve been on trains in the last couple of years
>>>>> I can echo other posters? experience that a significant number of other
>>>>> passengers wave phones at grippers and gates. I can?t tell if what they
>>>>> are displaying are PDFs, if that?s what?s important to you. In-app wallets
>>>>> might contain, PDFs, of course.
>>>>
>>>> Of a train with perhaps 200 people on it, how many? And are these
>>>> largely inner suburban, outer suburban, or intercity-style trains?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Having just quizzed a conveniently nearby ticketing person about this, the
>>> answer is approximately 150 out of your 200 passengers, and no difference
>>> across train types. Only ten people on the train would be using ITSO.
>>>
>>>
>> Don't you just hate it when people are rude enough to ruin good
>> arguments by introducing facts?
>>
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>
>
>Phone ticketing has become mainstream. Just like air travel (when that was
>a thing). For many years people would still be waving print at home tickets
>and then all of a sudden it flipped to on phone tickets. Now you hardly see
>anyone presenting a paper boarding pass.

Shhh, don't tell Roland, who'll have a 100 reasons why phone boarding cards won't work, because they didn't work for him
when he used to travel on bmiBaby.

In message <spnt48$c99$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:52 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spdooe$2r5$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:03:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
>> 2021, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 15/12/2021 15:50, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <vn1krgdr3pirmh8272gfju5ggtskkvgmiq@4ax.com>, at 15:17:50
>>>> on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 14:42:48 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <spb5g8$1vp$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:23:04 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doesn't everyone carry a torch in their pocket these days?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roland probably doesn't know his phone includes a torch, or how to
>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>> it on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm struggling to understand what possible motive you have for making
>>>>>> such crassly stupid postings.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, do you know how to use the torch in your phone?
>>
>>>> Obviously. My power pack also has a torch in it, if I have the power
>>>> pack about my person, which is unlikely if I've just popped to the
>>>> hospital for a clinic appointment, expecting the ticket machine not to
>>>> be in total darkness.
>>>
>>> On my car key-ring I have a small torch operated by turning a handle -
>>> never runs out and always available.
>>
>> That's another thing that doesn't necessarily scale well. We have two
>> cars, and two sets of keys (one each). Just one has a miniature
>> mercury-cell powered 'maglite'. Which reminds me, I must replace the
>> batteries.
>>
>> <Thread convergence> And another is the only one with the Tesco clubcard
>> fob.
>
>We currently have four cars in my household, two of which have two sets of
>keys (one for each person).
>
>I don't want to routinely carry all the keys with me, so I have a carabiner
>around 7cm*4cm, onto which I attach the various sets of keys (each on their
>own conventional key ring) which I'll need that day/trip.
>
>Car keys (4 sets)
>House keys
>Garage key
>Bike keys
>Work keys
>Parents house key
>Railway volunteering-location keys
>Tiny penknife.
>Foldable ruler keyring.
>
><https://twitter.com/annanoyddryver/status/1472619060684894216?s=21>

I don't treat every car trip as an expedition, and I'm not going to
start attaching Tesco loyalty fobs to the keys every time I leave the
house with an expectation of visiting a Tesco that day, and then taking
them off when I get back home.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spnosv$fbc$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:43 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <splr0q$35j$1@dont-email.me>, at 23:31:38 on Sat, 18 Dec
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spkupm$8id$5@dont-email.me>, at 15:29:58 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> But we are where we are, and it seems very likely that TfW's brand new
>>>>>> app has one foot firmly in the m-ticket camp.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've just tried two purchases on the new TfW app,
>>>>
>>>> It has more than one foot, I expect.
>>>>
>>>>> stopping short of payment. Soham-Ely is offered as e-ticket, a choice
>>>>> of emailed PDF or emailed Apple/Google Wallet ticket.
>>>>
>>>> The GA app offers it as an emailed PDF (but one of my gripes is they
>>>> failed to send one of those emails,
>>>
>>> Following this thread, I'm tempted to believe they have your email address
>>> blacklisted and deliberately don't send you valid tickets which you've
>>> purchased, just to increase their Usenet profile.
>>
>> Only if they un-black-listed it the following day when successfully
>> delivering the next PDF purchase I made.
>>
>>>> but they *have* later sent others);
>>
>> Like I said above.
>>
>>>> no option for an in-wallet ticket,
>>>
>>> I was offered both by the GA app for that journey.
>>
>> Can you elucidate what you mean by "offered"? They later told me when I
>> opted for PDf, that I could add it to my wallet (although I can see no
>> mechanism for doing so, that's another support-ticket I have open with
>> them). It wasn't a separate option alongside ITSO and PDF (and I note
>> that paper TOD isn't offered).
>>
>> The wording is as follows:
>>
>> o E-ticket. We will email your ticket to you - show it on your phone or
>> print it.
>>
>> o Smartcard load from the app - you can load onto your Smartcard with
>> just a tap.
>>
>> I assume they forgot to say "as long as your phone is NFC" (and like the
>> next one, as long as you have our Smartcard on you).
>>
>> o Smartcard collect at station - your ticket will be ready for
>> collection at the station 4hrs from now.
>>
>> And there was me wanting to travel in 4 minutes. Oh darn.
>
><https://twitter.com/annanoyddryver/status/1472613871152160771?s=21>

I wonder why you see different options to me.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spnv2l$ot5$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:53:09 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> What other places? The main other on I've done click-and-collect is
>> Tesco, and all they've wanted is my name (yes, that does seem a little
>> informal, but then they have a very short [~1hr?] collection window,
>> rather than Screwfix's 21 days).
>>
>> <Thread convergence> being divisible by seven, I presume that's calendar
>> days, not working days.
>
>Screwfix being open every day of the week, there's surely no difference
>between calendar days and working days?

I've seen the effect at businesses which are open every day. TOCs for
example.

Meanwhile, one of my local Screwfix has a large sign outside saying
"Open 7 days", when it's been there at least three years now.

That isn't just a dad-joke, I once went to a B&Q which had a large sign
outside saying "Open Saturday", and on getting inside midweek was
accosted by a staff member saying "we are still stocking the shelves,
and aren't opening until Saturday".
--
Roland Perry

In message <spnv2m$ot5$5@dont-email.me>, at 18:53:10 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I think we are getting a bit distracted here. The first such ticket I
>> bought last week had an order acknowledgement sent promptly. But the
>> subsequent email with the pdf ticket attached wasn't sent. At all.
>
>I think we've determined that that was an unfortunate, one-off, glitch in
>the system, haven't we?

Still waiting for GA's assessment.

>On the grounds that you have conducted several successful transactions
>since then, I've done one, and doubtless several thousand other people
>have done so too.

Just as long as glitches are accepted as an excuse for not having a
ticket in compulsory zone. Perhaps they need to update the signage to
reflect that? Or the wording of the order acknowledgement (which I did
get) to say that while it isn't the ticket, it could substitute for the
ticket if they fail to send the latter as promised.

I don't know why it has to be a two-stage process anyway. If they know
you've opted for an emailed PDF, why can't they simply attach it to the
order acknowledgement?
--
Roland Perry

In message <spnv7h$pt0$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:55:45 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spjh5l$pgb$2@dont-email.me>, at 02:31:17 on Sat, 18 Dec
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>
>>>>>>> However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
>>>>>>> phone? Just about everyone else does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because the tickets have arrived on my PC, not on my phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> They can arrive on both you know…..
>>>>
>>>> Groundhog day! Yes in theory they can, but I have too many emails
>>>> arriving at my desktop to be manageable on a phone.
>>>
>>> And yet you've declined every suggested solution, including having an
>>> entirely separate account just for accessing from your phone, as being too
>>> difficult. Hmm.
>>
>> I haven't declined it. As I've said multiple times I have set one up.
>>
>> It's just not something I think passengers should be expected to do, as
>> self-defence for when the TOC can't be bothered to keep its TVMs in
>> working order, and have no exclusion clauses in their hectoring signage
>> about compulsory ticket areas.
>
>Nobody except you [1] has trouble with receiving such emails into their
>normal email account. Nobody else expects to have to set up a different
>email address because nobody else feels it's necessary because they all
>manage quite successfully without doing so!
>
>[1] ok, except you and a handful of other people

I'll happily exchange notes with anyone dealing with more than perhaps a
hundred emails a day on a phone. And ask them how they view and edit the
twenty-page word documents contained in some of them, and send them
back.
--
Roland Perry

In message <ka1vrgdi22hdk3ibvtlot3fhgci97rlkrf@4ax.com>, at 19:41:44 on
Sun, 19 Dec 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 13:25:58 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <28ctrgt9u06qhp5leopokklk5kn6obdu65@4ax.com>, at 04:24:36 on
>>Sun, 19 Dec 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>remarked:
>>
>>>>>>I've not encountered it when buying from Screwfix, Amazon or AliExpress
>>>>>>to name but a few sites I buy from most frequently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>I get Screwfix invoices e-mailed as PDFs, (usually before I am out of
>>>>>the shop door).
>>>>
>>>>But if you order in advance, does the shop require you to show it on
>>>>your phone, before handing over the goods?
>>>>
>>>Stating last four digits and surname generally sufficed during the
>>>"only one person in the shop" period
>>
>>I've only quoted the last-four-digits for ages (long before Covid) and
>>then they ask *me* if I'm Mr Perry.
>>
>>>but I suspect if I had gone to collect something expensive then they
>>>might have been a bit more stringent.
>>
>>Perhaps that depends on the definition of "expensive". My average order
>>is about £25.
>>
>There are some fairly expensive power tools and other equipment which
>are more lucrative targets for interception. As with my branches, they
>might recognise you from previous visits anyway.

They have a high staff turnover, and their typically glazed expression
indicates they are following a script.

>>>Now that I actually get to the counter
>>
>>They didn't let you near the counter during Covid? here they did,
>>although with only two customers in the store at a time.
>>
>A lot of branches put a table in the doorway (as also did some
>retailers such as e.g. Dunelm who were getting by with click and
>collect) so you never went in. Some continued to do so after others
>had screens installed; the public side of the counter varies quite a
>bit in size between branches, those located in ordinary shop-fronts
>tending to be the smallest.

Every Screwfix I've been to was identical. Four tills and a counter/flap
at the far side of a room abut twenty ft square.

>>The main restriction was withdrawing the Argos-style order-in-store,
>>and going click-and-collect only.
>>
>>>I usually hold the phone out anyway as a screen and mask tend to get in
>>>the way of conversation; at other collection places for online-order
>>>packages this is usual so that the barcode/ QR code can be scanned.
>>
>>What other places?
>>
>The assortment of small shops doing the click and collect for goods
>delivered via Amazon, Collect+ and others.

Collect+ has a problem with eBay orders, in that the pickup details
don't have a barcode, which flummoxes the staff. It's taken me twenty
minutes to pick something up, after all the staff had had go at trying
to work out how to circumvent the system.

>>The main other on I've done click-and-collect is
>>Tesco, and all they've wanted is my name (yes, that does seem a little
>>informal, but then they have a very short [~1hr?] collection window,
>>rather than Screwfix's 21 days).
>>
>"Meet us in the car park. We're in the big orange/whatever van, not to
>be confused with the chap in the black BMW delivering other stuff."
>
>The short collection window is presumably due to the presence of
>perishables in combination with the vehicle possibly serving several
>locations.

The click-and-collect at my Tesco is a permanent shed (pre-Covid) in
their overflow car park. This from 2014: <https://goo.gl/maps/qZRH6x4fD3
d4ucWs6>

I think the strict time windows are so they don't have to pick the
entire day's deliverables at dawn, rather than because the items are
perishable.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spnt49$c99$5@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 13:30:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you think set
>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>
>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>> unnecessary
>>>
>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>> such tickets).
>>
>> Wne I've been on long-distance train journeys over the last five years
>> it's seemed to me that just about everyone under 40 proffers their
>> phone to the gripper. So I don't think 'very few' stands.
>
>I see plenty of people offering their phone screen to the scanner on the
>ticket barriers to exit the station, too.

Care to estimate the percentage?
--
Roland Perry

In message <spnv2l$ot5$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:53:09 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spn7ch$nbf$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:08:49 on Sun, 19 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spj30t$ffe$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:29:49 on Fri, 17 Dec
>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
>>>>>>> with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No they don't, they simply don't buy the tickets in the first place, or
>>>>>> if they do, have so little other email traffic that the other couple of
>>>>>> hundred emails a day which serious email users receive, don't swamp
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Evidence, please.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the salami-slicing I described in a posting a few minutes
>>>> ago, I just don't see that many people waving PDFs (of any kind) at
>>>> gates and grippers.
>>>
>>> On the relatively few times I’ve been on trains in the last couple
>>>of years I can echo other posters’ experience that a significant
>>>number of other passengers wave phones at grippers and gates. I
>>>can’t tell if what they are displaying are PDFs, if that’s
>>>what’s important to you. In-app wallets might contain, PDFs, of course.
>>
>> Of a train with perhaps 200 people on it, how many? And are these
>> largely inner suburban, outer suburban, or intercity-style trains?
>
>Having just quizzed a conveniently nearby ticketing person about this, the
>answer is approximately 150 out of your 200 passengers, and no difference
>across train types. Only ten people on the train would be using ITSO.

I'm astonished that only 40 of those 200 would be using paper tickets.

When I went to London the other week, and a trainload of people went
through the barriers at Kings Cross, I don't recall a single one of them
waving a phone. But next time I'll make a point of lurking near the
barriers and try to do an actual count.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spnngq$5d4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:44:09 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>On 19/12/2021 16:08, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <spng2v$hlh$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:37:19 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> As I said, I don't regularly use Tesco. In other shops, and I'm
>>>>sure in
>>>> Tesco of old, such yellow price labels highlighted a deal available to
>>>> everyone. Particularly as the big wording shouts "MEAL DEAL" (/etc)
>>>>and the
>>>> "for clubcard holders" is in much smaller print.
>>>
>>> Back to my example of the Tesco scam deal for club card holders. Taylor’s
>>> port, £15, £10 for club card holders. I’ve since discovered said port is
>>> £10 in Morrisons.
>> That appears to be a current promotional offer (Xmas perhaps, I'm
>>told it's coming up).
>> Sainsbury's has it at £10 - "£5 off".
>> Waitrose £10.50 ("was £15.75") <<- never knowingly over-sold.
>> Asda £11 ("was £15")
>> But Morrisons.com wins: £9 ("was £15")
>> You were robbed, buying it for a tenner in one of their stores.
>> ps Tesco.com £10, Clubcard price, £15 everyone else.
>> What I hope we can agree on, though, is the wide agreement that the
>>normal price is £15. And perhaps one shouldn't ever buy it the rest
>>of the year.
>
>I don't agree.
>
>Today's price is about £10 in all stores except Tesco. Today's price
>in Tesco is £15 unless you happen to have a clubcard on you.

Surely everyone has a Clubcard on their phone?
--
Roland Perry

In message <spnt49$c99$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you think set
>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>
>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>> unnecessary.
>>
>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>> such tickets).
>
>OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what percentage of
>ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email addresses
>for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
>ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now going to claim
>that none of them buy anything online?

I'm sure loads of them buy things online, but they don't often involve a
fulfilment process that requires them to present a barcode to the
merchant (or even the delivery man).

And even when they do, it's probably not on-the-hoof minutes after
having placed the order, thus requiring the barcode to be on their
phone.
--
Roland Perry