Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>
> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
> with the volume.

Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use the
technology that allows it work.

Sam (single email account, multiple addresses, 58 folders, all accessible
from phone, tablet and desktop)

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spnosv$fbc$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:43 on Sun, 19 Dec
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <splr0q$35j$1@dont-email.me>, at 23:31:38 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spkupm$8id$5@dont-email.me>, at 15:29:58 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But we are where we are, and it seems very likely that TfW's brand new
>>>>>>>> app has one foot firmly in the m-ticket camp.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've just tried two purchases on the new TfW app,
>>>>>>> stopping short of payment. Soham-Ely is offered as e-ticket, a choice
>>>>>>> of emailed PDF or emailed Apple/Google Wallet ticket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> no option for an in-wallet ticket,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was offered both by the GA app for that journey.
>>>>
>>>> Can you elucidate what you mean by "offered"? They later told me when I
>>>> opted for PDf, that I could add it to my wallet (although I can see no
>>>> mechanism for doing so, that's another support-ticket I have open with
>>>> them). It wasn't a separate option alongside ITSO and PDF (and I note
>>>> that paper TOD isn't offered).
>>>>
>>>> The wording is as follows:
>>>>
>>>> o E-ticket. We will email your ticket to you - show it on your phone or
>>>> print it.
>>>>
>>>> o Smartcard load from the app - you can load onto your Smartcard with
>>>> just a tap.
>>>>
>>>> I assume they forgot to say "as long as your phone is NFC" (and like the
>>>> next one, as long as you have our Smartcard on you).
>>>>
>>>> o Smartcard collect at station - your ticket will be ready for
>>>> collection at the station 4hrs from now.
>>>>
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/annanoyddryver/status/1472613871152160771?s=21>
>>
>> I wonder why you see different options to me.
>
> Apologies, that's what the TfW app offers me. The GA app offers emailed
> PDF, or load to smartcard.

Ah, not because they detected an IP address in the Ely triangle, then…

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spq6aj$ui$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:07 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spnt49$c99$5@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 13:30:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you think set
>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>>> unnecessary
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>
>>>>> Wne I've been on long-distance train journeys over the last five years
>>>>> it's seemed to me that just about everyone under 40 proffers their
>>>>> phone to the gripper. So I don't think 'very few' stands.
>>>>
>>>> I see plenty of people offering their phone screen to the scanner on the
>>>> ticket barriers to exit the station, too.
>>>
>>> Care to estimate the percentage?
>>
>> No, because I don't stand and study people going through the barriers, I
>> just see people ahead of me in the crowd waving phones.
>
> You could still estimate a percentage based on that. Assuming of course
> they are waving phones because they have tickets on them, rather than
> WhatsApp messages from their classmates.

I don't think presenting a WhatsApp message face-down to the scanner
attached to the ticket gate will help you to exit the station, unless the
WhatsApp message has an image of a suitable QR code.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spq6ak$ui$4@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:08 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spnt49$c99$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you think set
>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>
>>>> OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what percentage of
>>>> ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email addresses
>>>> for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
>>>> ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now going to claim
>>>> that none of them buy anything online?
>>>
>>> I'm sure loads of them buy things online, but they don't often involve a
>>> fulfilment process that requires them to present a barcode to the
>>> merchant (or even the delivery man).
>>>
>>> And even when they do, it's probably not on-the-hoof minutes after
>>> having placed the order, thus requiring the barcode to be on their
>>> phone.
>>
>> And yet for those things which do require the emailed barcode to be shown
>> (theatre, museum, zoo, farm park etc) I'd suggest that the majority will be
>> quite successfully shown on phones.
>
> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).

IMX all those are emailed. I don't think random museums, farm parks and
MailRail tend to have their own apps…

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message
<269719802.661805402.386155.jmd.nospam-btinternet.com@news.individual.net
>, at 18:51:33 on Tue, 21 Dec 2021, Jeremy Double
<jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spsaqt$psg$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:38:20 on Tue, 21 Dec
>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>> On 21/12/2021 07:14, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have four email 'addresses' - hotmail (main), work, and two domains
>>>>> (little used). I can trivially access any of them from either phone or
>>>>> computer.
>>>>>
>>>> I have a similar arrangement, all emails readable on all platforms.
>>>> It’s only Roland who feels the need to restrict what goes where.
>>>>
>>> It's not only Roland. I have between 100 and 300 emails daily. Most
>>> can be safely ignored when I'm not at home and, quite frankly, I don't
>>> want them cluttering up my phone.
>>>
>>> I do have a personal email address for friends and relatives which I do
>>> monitor on my phone. Unfortunately this has leaked by three hot mail
>>> users and the amount of spam exceeds the rest.
>>>
>>> Examining my incoming email from ToCs the unwanted emails outnumber the
>>> wanted ones.
>>>
>>> As far as I'm concerned emailing railway tickets direct to my phone is
>>> not viable. Fortunately TfW m-ticketing works well.
>>>
>>> When are rover m-tickets going to be introduced and why can't I
>>> transfer my railcards to my phone?
>>
>> Having said that, my wife has recently got a railcard, and somewhat
>> against her wishes the only expedient delivery method was to her phone.
>
>I had no problems getting a physical railcard sent through the post to me
>when I signed up a few months ago.

The problem was we wanted it within a week, and they would only
promise 10-day (working day?) delivery of the plastic version,
which might of course have been extended "because of Covid". Hence
the word 'expedient'. It wasn't available from stations either.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spqevd$p3a$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:36:45 on Mon, 20 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>Roland is claiming to represent the public, who in general get few emails,
>whilst simultaneously claiming everything is impossible because of his
>large volume of email.

The problem is, the thread has split into two completely different
themes.

The original one about an upcoming ratchet in the Penalty Fares regime,
and the idea that people might have to plan to be carrying a mobile (and
have accounts set up with relevant TOCs) to be able to buy a ticket that
way at the last minute, rather than from the TVM they would normally
use.

And then the groundhog day that arises every time I mention that I don't
find it very convenient to use a mobile for email (but some others
might) and specifically that emailing PDFs is a clunky 20yr-old
technology that the train companies really shouldn't be deploying via
phone apps in 2021.

Anyway, here's a clip of me on BBC-TV in 1993 explaining what a boon
personal computing was, and in particular the promise that mobile
computing had. It's supposed to be a bio, but I left most of that out.

https://youtu.be/4s-1eKz9mbc

The black-haired guy worked with me earlier at Amstrad, but was by then
representing a mobile data company, and he had his tongue in cheek when
he mentioned "our nearest base station", because they'd installed one
specially about ten feet away out of shot, at our house in rural
Oxfordshire. And while they didn't air any screen shots, the
demonstration was very live, and worked.

Later in the conversation in the garden (but they cut) I mused that one
application which would be useful was for realtime train departure
boards to be available via such a link, so that one could tell when to
set off to catch a train to London [from Reading, half an hour away, in
this instance]. It was seven years before that came to pass (on a
website rather than a proprietary online service).
--
Roland Perry

In message <spt9vl$r19$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:29:57 on Tue, 21 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec
>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>
>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>> with the volume.
>
>Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use the
>technology that allows it work.

Perhaps you could suggest a better email client than Spark, which was
the one that came out on top last groundhog day.

It does "work", of course, but struggles with more than ten folders, or
ten emails, on the screen at once.

>Sam (single email account, multiple addresses, 58 folders, all accessible
>from phone, tablet and desktop)

--
Roland
820 emails in my Spark inbox
Also available on my GSM-equipped laptop

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spt9vl$r19$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:29:57 on Tue, 21 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>>
>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>> with the volume.
>>
>> Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use the
>> technology that allows it work.
>
> Perhaps you could suggest a better email client than Spark, which was
> the one that came out on top last groundhog day.
>
> It does "work", of course, but struggles with more than ten folders, or
> ten emails, on the screen at once.
>

I use Outlook. It displays either seven message titles/summaries, or 15
folders, on screen at any one time, but luckily I have a thumb which can
scroll to see the rest.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <spq6ai$ui$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:06 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spnosv$fbc$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:43 on Sun, 19 Dec
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <splr0q$35j$1@dont-email.me>, at 23:31:38 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spkupm$8id$5@dont-email.me>, at 15:29:58 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But we are where we are, and it seems very likely that TfW's brand new
>>>>>>>> app has one foot firmly in the m-ticket camp.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've just tried two purchases on the new TfW app,
>>>>>>> stopping short of payment. Soham-Ely is offered as e-ticket, a choice
>>>>>>> of emailed PDF or emailed Apple/Google Wallet ticket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> no option for an in-wallet ticket,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was offered both by the GA app for that journey.
>>>>
>>>> Can you elucidate what you mean by "offered"? They later told me when I
>>>> opted for PDf, that I could add it to my wallet (although I can see no
>>>> mechanism for doing so, that's another support-ticket I have open with
>>>> them). It wasn't a separate option alongside ITSO and PDF (and I note
>>>> that paper TOD isn't offered).
>>>>
>>>> The wording is as follows:
>>>>
>>>> o E-ticket. We will email your ticket to you - show it on your phone or
>>>> print it.
>>>>
>>>> o Smartcard load from the app - you can load onto your Smartcard with
>>>> just a tap.
>>>>
>>>> I assume they forgot to say "as long as your phone is NFC" (and like the
>>>> next one, as long as you have our Smartcard on you).
>>>>
>>>> o Smartcard collect at station - your ticket will be ready for
>>>> collection at the station 4hrs from now.
>>>>
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/annanoyddryver/status/1472613871152160771?s=21>
>>
>> I wonder why you see different options to me.
>
>Apologies, that's what the TfW app offers me. The GA app offers emailed
>PDF, or load to smartcard.

Thanks for clearing that up. This whole delivery capability thing is
very fragmented!
--
Roland Perry

In message <sptpdb$aju$2@dont-email.me>, at 23:53:15 on Tue, 21 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spq6aj$ui$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:07 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$5@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 13:30:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you
>>>>>>>>>think set
>>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>>>> unnecessary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wne I've been on long-distance train journeys over the last five years
>>>>>> it's seemed to me that just about everyone under 40 proffers their
>>>>>> phone to the gripper. So I don't think 'very few' stands.
>>>>>
>>>>> I see plenty of people offering their phone screen to the scanner on the
>>>>> ticket barriers to exit the station, too.
>>>>
>>>> Care to estimate the percentage?
>>>
>>> No, because I don't stand and study people going through the barriers, I
>>> just see people ahead of me in the crowd waving phones.
>>
>> You could still estimate a percentage based on that. Assuming of course
>> they are waving phones because they have tickets on them, rather than
>> WhatsApp messages from their classmates.
>
>I don't think presenting a WhatsApp message face-down to the scanner
>attached to the ticket gate will help you to exit the station, unless the
>WhatsApp message has an image of a suitable QR code.

Next term (or whenever the schools actually go back) I'll take a trip to
Cambridge Station and see what the proportions are. It was very low at
Kings Cross a fortnight ago, but they weren't schoolkids.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sptpdb$aju$3@dont-email.me>, at 23:53:15 on Tue, 21 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spq6ak$ui$4@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:08 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you
>>>>>>>>think set
>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>
>>>>> OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what percentage of
>>>>> ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email addresses
>>>>> for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
>>>>> ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now going to claim
>>>>> that none of them buy anything online?
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure loads of them buy things online, but they don't often involve a
>>>> fulfilment process that requires them to present a barcode to the
>>>> merchant (or even the delivery man).
>>>>
>>>> And even when they do, it's probably not on-the-hoof minutes after
>>>> having placed the order, thus requiring the barcode to be on their
>>>> phone.
>>>
>>> And yet for those things which do require the emailed barcode to be shown
>>> (theatre, museum, zoo, farm park etc) I'd suggest that the majority will be
>>> quite successfully shown on phones.
>>
>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>
>IMX all those are emailed. I don't think random museums, farm parks and
>MailRail tend to have their own apps…

But the booking agencies used by some "attractions" do.

And our local movie theatre (Cineworld) has an app.

Most recent review: "This app deserves 0 stars but fortunately for its
creaters, that's not an option."

However it does appear to have in-app tickets:

<https://play-lh.googleusercontent.com/M1jjc5QrL6zFW8o-QJ8f5MxgoyfVxyjh
ZXz0Z6R9FufLHGGNVBLpsDgGEGEsJuL2AHk=w1050-h1567>

Shame that phone's only got 14% battery left, I hope it lasts until they
get to the cinema.
--
Roland Perry

In message <3g01sg1skq80ftenr174bom7koq7dblgnf@4ax.com>, at 13:16:11 on
Mon, 20 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>>>We currently have four cars in my household, two of which have two sets of
>>>keys (one for each person).
>>>
>>>I don't want to routinely carry all the keys with me, so I have a carabiner
>>>around 7cm*4cm, onto which I attach the various sets of keys (each on their
>>>own conventional key ring) which I'll need that day/trip.
>>>
>>>Car keys (4 sets)
>>>House keys
>>>Garage key
>>>Bike keys
>>>Work keys
>>>Parents house key
>>>Railway volunteering-location keys
>>>Tiny penknife.
>>>Foldable ruler keyring.
>>>
>>><https://twitter.com/annanoyddryver/status/1472619060684894216?s=21>
>>
>>I don't treat every car trip as an expedition, and I'm not going to
>>start attaching Tesco loyalty fobs to the keys every time I leave the
>>house with an expectation of visiting a Tesco that day, and then taking
>>them off when I get back home.
>
>So use a physical Clubcard or store it on your phone.

I have a physical Clubcard, but my wallet is full with other cards; and
why make an exception for Tesco, those car keys also have fobs for CoOp
and Sainsburys [aka Nectar].

While I could store the card on my phones (well, I think I might be able
to, but it's actually my wife's card and she already has it on her phone
from a previous time she took the wrong set of keys) but again it's the
bloat.

Back when storecards were more of thing (for multiple me-too retailers
trying to emulate Tesco's success) I probably had a dozen of them.
Nowadays I just have fourteen ITSO cards, plus a Twirly and an Oyster.
Plus of course a spare prepay card to lend to travelling companions in
London and a Bite card and a Senior Railcard.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spt2o7$5ua$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:26:31 on Tue, 21 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spq6ak$ui$4@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:08 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you
>>>>>>>>think set
>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>
>>>>> OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what percentage of
>>>>> ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email addresses
>>>>> for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
>>>>> ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now going to claim
>>>>> that none of them buy anything online?
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure loads of them buy things online, but they don't often involve a
>>>> fulfilment process that requires them to present a barcode to the
>>>> merchant (or even the delivery man).
>>>>
>>>> And even when they do, it's probably not on-the-hoof minutes after
>>>> having placed the order, thus requiring the barcode to be on their
>>>> phone.
>>>
>>> And yet for those things which do require the emailed barcode to be shown
>>> (theatre, museum, zoo, farm park etc) I'd suggest that the majority will be
>>> quite successfully shown on phones.
>>
>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>
>When are you going to accept that most people just don’t care which it is?

When there's some evidence that they are happy to be forced into using a
phone app to email them a pdf, because the TVM at their departure
station is unexpectedly broken.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spt2o6$5ua$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:26:30 on Tue, 21 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spn7ch$nbf$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:08:49 on Sun, 19 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spj30t$ffe$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:29:49 on Fri, 17 Dec
>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <spavjm$qqm$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:30 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even using a specific email address for ticket providers is
>>>>>>>>>>>> not viable
>>>>>>>>>>>> as I'm illegally on two email lists neither of which provide the
>>>>>>>>>>>> legally required link to remove myself for the same.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Of course it is viable, how long does it take to set up a
>>>>>>>>>>> specific email
>>>>>>>>>>> address for the purpose?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not long. But it becomes usable when the junk email builds up.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tickets2020@…
>>>>>>>>> tickets2021@…
>>>>>>>>> tickets2022@…
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And thus you continue to twist the knife, appeasing vendors who
>>>>>>>> externalise so much of the transactional admin to their customers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
>>>>>>> with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No they don't, they simply don't buy the tickets in the first place, or
>>>>>> if they do, have so little other email traffic that the other couple of
>>>>>> hundred emails a day which serious email users receive, don't swamp
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Evidence, please.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the salami-slicing I described in a posting a few minutes
>>>> ago, I just don't see that many people waving PDFs (of any kind) at
>>>> gates and grippers.
>>>
>>> On the relatively few times I’ve been on trains in the last couple
>>>of years
>>> I can echo other posters’ experience that a significant number of other
>>> passengers wave phones at grippers and gates. I can’t tell if what they
>>> are displaying are PDFs, if that’s what’s important to you.
>>>In-app wallets
>>> might contain, PDFs, of course.
>>
>> Of a train with perhaps 200 people on it, how many? And are these
>> largely inner suburban, outer suburban, or intercity-style trains?
>
>I can’t really help you here, but I see other contributors have answered.
>FTR in the last two years or so I have been on the following trains that I
>can remember:
>
>Edinburgh-Newcastle LNER
>Berwick-on-Tweed-Edinburgh LNER
>Edinburgh-Glasgow-Ardrossan and return ScotRail
>Norwich-Ely-King’s Lynn GA/GN
>North Berwick-Edinburgh ScotRail
>Edinburgh-Glasgow and return ScotRail
>
>I don’t remember proportions on each journey, but there were enough people
>using phones to be noticeable. I used paper tickets on every journey
>(though arriving from N Berwick I obtained the ticket at my destination!).

I wonder how many were using the phone because they wanted to, rather
than being forced into it because the TVM was broken?
--
Roland Perry

In message <sppved$fhp$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:11:41 on Mon, 20 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spnngq$5d4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:44:09 on Sun, 19 Dec
>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>> On 19/12/2021 16:08, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <spng2v$hlh$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:37:19 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> As I said, I don't regularly use Tesco. In other shops, and I'm
>>>>>> sure in
>>>>>> Tesco of old, such yellow price labels highlighted a deal available to
>>>>>> everyone. Particularly as the big wording shouts "MEAL DEAL" (/etc)
>>>>>> and the
>>>>>> "for clubcard holders" is in much smaller print.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to my example of the Tesco scam deal for club card holders.
>>>>>Taylor’s
>>>>> port, £15, £10 for club card holders. I’ve since discovered
>>>>>said port is
>>>>> £10 in Morrisons.
>>>> That appears to be a current promotional offer (Xmas perhaps, I'm
>>>> told it's coming up).
>>>> Sainsbury's has it at £10 - "£5 off".
>>>> Waitrose £10.50 ("was £15.75") <<- never knowingly over-sold.
>>>> Asda £11 ("was £15")
>>>> But Morrisons.com wins: £9 ("was £15")
>>>> You were robbed, buying it for a tenner in one of their stores.
>>>> ps Tesco.com £10, Clubcard price, £15 everyone else.
>>>> What I hope we can agree on, though, is the wide agreement that the
>>>> normal price is £15. And perhaps one shouldn't ever buy it the rest
>>>> of the year.
>>>
>>> I don't agree.
>>>
>>> Today's price is about £10 in all stores except Tesco. Today's price
>>> in Tesco is £15 unless you happen to have a clubcard on you.
>>
>> Surely everyone has a Clubcard on their phone?
>
>The only reason I have a club card on my phone is to stop me paying over
>the odds on special offers that other supermarkets will give me without a
>loyalty card. It certainly doesn’t make me loyal to Tesco, quite the
>opposite.

So far you've only produced one isolated example.

--
Roland Perry

In message <spq6ak$ui$5@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:08 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spnngq$5d4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:44:09 on Sun, 19 Dec
>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>> On 19/12/2021 16:08, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <spng2v$hlh$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:37:19 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> As I said, I don't regularly use Tesco. In other shops, and I'm
>>>>>> sure in
>>>>>> Tesco of old, such yellow price labels highlighted a deal available to
>>>>>> everyone. Particularly as the big wording shouts "MEAL DEAL" (/etc)
>>>>>> and the
>>>>>> "for clubcard holders" is in much smaller print.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to my example of the Tesco scam deal for club card holders.
>>>>>Taylor’s
>>>>> port, £15, £10 for club card holders. I’ve since discovered
>>>>>said port is
>>>>> £10 in Morrisons.
>>>> That appears to be a current promotional offer (Xmas perhaps, I'm
>>>> told it's coming up).
>>>> Sainsbury's has it at £10 - "£5 off".
>>>> Waitrose £10.50 ("was £15.75") <<- never knowingly over-sold.
>>>> Asda £11 ("was £15")
>>>> But Morrisons.com wins: £9 ("was £15")
>>>> You were robbed, buying it for a tenner in one of their stores.
>>>> ps Tesco.com £10, Clubcard price, £15 everyone else.
>>>> What I hope we can agree on, though, is the wide agreement that the
>>>> normal price is £15. And perhaps one shouldn't ever buy it the rest
>>>> of the year.
>>>
>>> I don't agree.
>>>
>>> Today's price is about £10 in all stores except Tesco. Today's price
>>> in Tesco is £15 unless you happen to have a clubcard on you.
>>
>> Surely everyone has a Clubcard on their phone?
>
>"Surely everyone has a clubcard" is an incorrect assumption to begin with.

Just like "surely everyone has a smartphone on them", but that's the
irony in my remark.
--
Roland Perry

In message <bd22sgl713e0nlpurdh28n3s6edhpc9vee@4ax.com>, at 22:59:11 on
Mon, 20 Dec 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:33:06 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <spnngq$5d4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:44:09 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>On 19/12/2021 16:08, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <spng2v$hlh$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:37:19 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> As I said, I don't regularly use Tesco. In other shops, and I'm
>>>>>>sure in
>>>>>> Tesco of old, such yellow price labels highlighted a deal available to
>>>>>> everyone. Particularly as the big wording shouts "MEAL DEAL" (/etc)
>>>>>>and the
>>>>>> "for clubcard holders" is in much smaller print.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to my example of the Tesco scam deal for club card holders. Taylor’s
>>>>> port, £15, £10 for club card holders. I’ve since discovered said port is
>>>>> £10 in Morrisons.
>>>> That appears to be a current promotional offer (Xmas perhaps, I'm
>>>>told it's coming up).
>>>> Sainsbury's has it at £10 - "£5 off".
>>>> Waitrose £10.50 ("was £15.75") <<- never knowingly over-sold.
>>>> Asda £11 ("was £15")
>>>> But Morrisons.com wins: £9 ("was £15")
>>>> You were robbed, buying it for a tenner in one of their stores.
>>>> ps Tesco.com £10, Clubcard price, £15 everyone else.
>>>> What I hope we can agree on, though, is the wide agreement that the
>>>>normal price is £15. And perhaps one shouldn't ever buy it the rest
>>>>of the year.
>>>
>>>I don't agree.
>>>
>>>Today's price is about £10 in all stores except Tesco. Today's price
>>>in Tesco is £15 unless you happen to have a clubcard on you.
>>
>>Surely everyone has a Clubcard on their phone?
>>
>No, it is on a key ring with the others*. Total memory used = nil.
>
>*Except Lidl which takes up 134Mb and is probably an early choice for
>dumping if/when any memory needs to be freed.

Doesn't everyone have a 32GB phone?
--
Roland Perry

In message <spqjo9$1f8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:58:17 on Mon, 20 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>> Round here (yes, I know) most of them. But even those who do, what's the
>> incidence of them being rail passengers at all, let alone booking their
>> tickets individually though an app - rather than for example having a
>> season ticket).
>
>Well you’ve had first hand (well second hand to be strictly accurate)
>evidence from a gripper that works multiple types of routes but still want
>to argue that people don’t use phone tickets. It seems once an idea is in
>your mind nothing can shake it.

All I can do is say what I see, and that's very few people using phone
tickets, and big queues at the TVMs instead when the ticket office is
closed. Why would they be queuing at the TVMs if they could order on
their phone?

The other aspect which no-one has addressed, is what proportion of "the
public", or even "the smartphone owning public" ever catch a train, let
alone catch a train with a walk-up ticket.

All claims that "most people are familiar with phone-ticketing" falls at
that point.
--
Roland Perry

On 22/12/2021 13:15, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <sptpdb$aju$2@dont-email.me>, at 23:53:15 on Tue, 21 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spq6aj$ui$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:07 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$5@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 13:30:42 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you
>>>>>>>>>> think set
>>>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it
>>>>>>>>> entirely
>>>>>>>>> unnecessary
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very
>>>>>>>> few buy
>>>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wne I've been on long-distance train journeys over the last five
>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>> it's seemed to me that just about everyone under 40 proffers their
>>>>>>> phone to the gripper. So I don't think 'very few' stands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see plenty of people offering their phone screen to the scanner
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> ticket barriers to exit the station, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Care to estimate the percentage?
>>>>
>>>> No, because I don't stand and study people going through the
>>>> barriers, I
>>>> just see people ahead of me in the crowd waving phones.
>>>
>>> You could still estimate a percentage based on that. Assuming of course
>>> they are waving phones because they have tickets on them, rather than
>>> WhatsApp messages from their classmates.
>>
>> I don't think presenting a WhatsApp message face-down to the scanner
>> attached to the ticket gate will help you to exit the station, unless the
>> WhatsApp message has an image of a suitable QR code.
>
> Next term (or whenever the schools actually go back) I'll take a trip to
> Cambridge Station and see what the proportions are. It was very low at
> Kings Cross a fortnight ago, but they weren't schoolkids.

Just keep in mind that season tickets are not universally available
except for the credit card sized cardboard ones.

In message <sput7s$5si$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:04:43 on Wed, 22 Dec
2021, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec >
>>2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>> >> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?

>> > As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>> > which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>> > with the volume.

>>×Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use
>>thetechnology that allows it work.
>>×Sam (single email account, multiple addresses, 58 folders, all accessible
>> from phone, tablet and desktop)
>
>Indeed, Roland's problems with technology really are quite remarkable.

I don't have problems with technology. I have problems with
inappropriate technology. Trying to make phones a one-size-fits-all
solution for IT needs is just bizarre.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spv2c0$f9s$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:32:16 on Wed, 22 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spt9vl$r19$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:29:57 on Tue, 21 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>>>>
>>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>>> with the volume.
>>>
>>> Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use the
>>> technology that allows it work.
>>
>> Perhaps you could suggest a better email client than Spark, which was
>> the one that came out on top last groundhog day.
>>
>> It does "work", of course, but struggles with more than ten folders, or
>> ten emails, on the screen at once.
>
>I use Outlook. It displays either seven message titles/summaries, or 15
>folders, on screen at any one time, but luckily I have a thumb which can
>scroll to see the rest.

Whereas I can see vastly more at a glance, without having to scroll
anything.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spvf3k$m92$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:40 on Wed, 22 Dec
2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>On 22/12/2021 13:15, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <sptpdb$aju$2@dont-email.me>, at 23:53:15 on Tue, 21 Dec
>>2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spq6aj$ui$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:07 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$5@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 13:30:42 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>>>><roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do
>>>>>>>>>>>you think set up special email addresses for different
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it
>>>>>>>>>> unnecessary
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that
>>>>>>>>>very few buy such tickets).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wne I've been on long-distance train journeys over the last
>>>>>>>>five years it's seemed to me that just about everyone under 40
>>>>>>>> phone to the gripper. So I don't think 'very few' stands.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see plenty of people offering their phone screen to the
>>>>>>>scanner on the ticket barriers to exit the station, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Care to estimate the percentage?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, because I don't stand and study people going through the
>>>>>barriers, I just see people ahead of me in the crowd waving phones.
>>>>
>>>> You could still estimate a percentage based on that. Assuming of course
>>>> they are waving phones because they have tickets on them, rather than
>>>> WhatsApp messages from their classmates.
>>>
>>> I don't think presenting a WhatsApp message face-down to the scanner
>>> attached to the ticket gate will help you to exit the station, unless the
>>> WhatsApp message has an image of a suitable QR code.

>> Next term (or whenever the schools actually go back) I'll take a
>>trip to Cambridge Station and see what the proportions are. It was
>>very low at Kings Cross a fortnight ago, but they weren't schoolkids.
>
>Just keep in mind that season tickets are not universally available
>except for the credit card sized cardboard ones.

Given that a quarter of train trips are made by people with seasons, and
I'm not aware they are restricted to the over-40's, anecdata that
three-quarters of passengers are using phones, must indicate a
significant proportion of those have season tickets on their phones.

If we beleive the data.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spt2o7$5ua$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:26:31 on Tue, 21 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spq6ak$ui$4@dont-email.me>, at 15:09:08 on Mon, 20 Dec 2021,
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spnt49$c99$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:19:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you
>>>>>>>>> think set
>>>>>>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>>>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>>>>>>> such tickets).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what percentage of
>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email addresses
>>>>>> for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
>>>>>> ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now going to claim
>>>>>> that none of them buy anything online?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure loads of them buy things online, but they don't often involve a
>>>>> fulfilment process that requires them to present a barcode to the
>>>>> merchant (or even the delivery man).
>>>>>
>>>>> And even when they do, it's probably not on-the-hoof minutes after
>>>>> having placed the order, thus requiring the barcode to be on their
>>>>> phone.
>>>>
>>>> And yet for those things which do require the emailed barcode to be shown
>>>> (theatre, museum, zoo, farm park etc) I'd suggest that the majority will be
>>>> quite successfully shown on phones.
>>>
>>> How many of those are in-app (which I am happy with) and how many PDFs
>>> in the email client (which as you know I have issues with).
>>
>> When are you going to accept that most people just don’t care which it is?
>
> When there's some evidence that they are happy to be forced into using a
> phone app to email them a pdf, because the TVM at their departure
> station is unexpectedly broken.

Of course nobody enjoys encounters with broken TVMs, but receiving a ticket
by email won't bother them (assuming they use email at all).

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <bd22sgl713e0nlpurdh28n3s6edhpc9vee@4ax.com>, at 22:59:11 on
> Mon, 20 Dec 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
> remarked:
>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:33:06 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <spnngq$5d4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:44:09 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>> On 19/12/2021 16:08, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <spng2v$hlh$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:37:19 on Sun, 19 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I said, I don't regularly use Tesco. In other shops, and I'm
>>>>>>> sure in
>>>>>>> Tesco of old, such yellow price labels highlighted a deal available to
>>>>>>> everyone. Particularly as the big wording shouts "MEAL DEAL" (/etc)
>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>> "for clubcard holders" is in much smaller print.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Back to my example of the Tesco scam deal for club card holders. Taylor’s
>>>>>> port, £15, £10 for club card holders. I’ve since discovered said port is
>>>>>> £10 in Morrisons.
>>>>> That appears to be a current promotional offer (Xmas perhaps, I'm
>>>>> told it's coming up).
>>>>> Sainsbury's has it at £10 - "£5 off".
>>>>> Waitrose £10.50 ("was £15.75") <<- never knowingly over-sold.
>>>>> Asda £11 ("was £15")
>>>>> But Morrisons.com wins: £9 ("was £15")
>>>>> You were robbed, buying it for a tenner in one of their stores.
>>>>> ps Tesco.com £10, Clubcard price, £15 everyone else.
>>>>> What I hope we can agree on, though, is the wide agreement that the
>>>>> normal price is £15. And perhaps one shouldn't ever buy it the rest
>>>>> of the year.
>>>>
>>>> I don't agree.
>>>>
>>>> Today's price is about £10 in all stores except Tesco. Today's price
>>>> in Tesco is £15 unless you happen to have a clubcard on you.
>>>
>>> Surely everyone has a Clubcard on their phone?
>>>
>> No, it is on a key ring with the others*. Total memory used = nil.
>>
>> *Except Lidl which takes up 134Mb and is probably an early choice for
>> dumping if/when any memory needs to be freed.
>
> Doesn't everyone have a 32GB phone?

No, most people have much more.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sput7s$5si$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:04:43 on Wed, 22 Dec
> 2021, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec >
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>>> Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?
>
>>>> As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
>>>> which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
>>>> with the volume.
>
>>> ×Of course it works on a sodding phone! You just choose not to use
>>> thetechnology that allows it work.
>>> ×Sam (single email account, multiple addresses, 58 folders, all accessible
>>> from phone, tablet and desktop)
>>
>> Indeed, Roland's problems with technology really are quite remarkable.
>
> I don't have problems with technology. I have problems with
> inappropriate technology. Trying to make phones a one-size-fits-all
> solution for IT needs is just bizarre.

For you.

Not for anyone under 40.