In message <t9s9rgts5sfakjo1d78082i3c5il3c1cve@4ax.com>, at 18:55:52 on
Sat, 11 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
>On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 13:08:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> WhatsApp has an API, which can be used to send a message to any number
>>> registered with WhatsApp even if it isn't already known to you. So it
>>> can be integrated into an online retail environment in a way which
>>> allows a customer to supply their phone number and the system to then
>>> send a message via WhatsApp to that number. From a business perspective,
>>> this is a very useful means of communicating with customers as sending a
>>> WhatsApp message is free, unlike SMS. Plus, of course, you can send
>>> attachments, which you can't easily do with SMS. Abd unlike email and
>>> SMS, WhatsApp has a delivery feedback mechanism built in so you know if
>>> your message has reached the recipient.
>>>
>>> The downside, at the moment, is that access to the API is strictly
>>> controlled (which it has to be, in order to prevent spammers using it),
>>> and there are several hoops to jump through in order to get a Business
>>> WhatsApp Account and be eligible for the API. So there are not, yet,
>>> many organisations using it. But, in the long run, I expect it to become
>>> one of the primary means whereby businesses communicate with customers.
>>
>>The real problem is tying your retail delivery system into a third party
>>owned proprietary system, owned by an outfit with ever diminishing public
>>and political trust.
>
>The point is that if you are selling a product which can be delivered
>digitally, then it makes sense, from a customer service perspective, to
>offer multiple means of delivery. Even assuming that the primary means
>remains email (which is likely, at least for the foreseeable future), it
>would be a useful add-on for ticket vendors to be able to have an extra,
>optional field on the order page which says something like "Enter your
>phone number here to get the ticket sent to you via WhatsApp". That
>doesn't override, or replace, the email delivery mechanism, but it would
>be useful for a large number of customers. If WhatsApp ever goes out of
>fashion, or is supplanted by a different IM system, then alternatives
>which offer a similar API facility could be implemented instead of, or
>even alongside, WhatsApp.
>
>Offering WhatsApp as an optional delivery mechanism is no more tying you
>in to anything than offering traditional postal delivery of a printed
>ticket ties you in to Royal Mail, or offering TVM printing ties you in
>the machinery. On the contrary, the more different delivery mechanisms
>you can offer, the less you and your customers are reliant on any single
>one of them.

I'd be happy if a train company with a train ticket booking app, could
be arsed to send the tickets to that App's existing ticket wallet.
Apparently Greater Anglia can't.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sp227c$g5s$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:56 on Sat, 11 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>> Obviously I’m only seeing this through the prism of, mainly Roland’s,
>> second hand reports. However it seems that Android has useability issues.
>
>No, not normal Android phones, whose ysers can vuew PDFs perfectly well
>without any Adobe software or any need to log into any service. Just the
>'special', second-hand ones Roland uses.

Intriguing. Can you explain why a secondhand phone is less capable than
one of the same age, owned from new?
--
Roland Perry

In message <pb49rgdegjff9vpv96mp3v1gponlphukal@4ax.com>, at 11:55:47 on
Sat, 11 Dec 2021, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:

>>>Are you Android users saying that the supplied web browser doesn’t support
>>>viewing pdfs?
>>
>>What I'm saying is that the email app, when asked to display a PDF
>>attachment, launches Adobe viewer, which it appears I'm not the only
>>person unwilling to sign-in-to.
>>
>>I can't see a "setting" in the email app to launch a browser instead.
>
>My Android doesn't have Adobe Reader installed, so far as I know, and
>I've never heard of their Reader on ay platform demanding that you
>sign in.

Did you not hear me saying that they did?

Meanwhile, are you prepared, rather than just heckling, to engage in a
conversation about why you get tickets pushed to the in-app wallet, and
I don't?
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:06:05 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <sp7pqc$19tb$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:45:16 on Mon, 13 Dec
>2021, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>WhatsApp is free, which is good for international calls, and also does
>>>video calls, and group (conference) calls. The people you are messaging
>>
>>So do a boatload of apps without having to sign up to facebooks T&Cs.
>
>The only one which comes close is Skype, and that's been part of the
>Microsoft empire for years.

Zoom, Jabber, Slack, MS Teams.

>>And how does that differ from email?
>
>The seamless integration with multimedia.

Define seamless.

>>>I thought we were discussing keeping in touch with "mates"?
>>
>>You invariably bring your job into the discussion so thought I'd pre-empt.
>
>You have no idea what my job is, and the one you might think it is, I
>retired from three years ago.

In which case you're retired full stop since someone with a sense of self
importance such as yourself would have updated your linkedin long ago.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>
>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>
>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>> rather than closing the app.
>>
>> There’s a rather easy way to find out, isn’t there?
>>
>
> Roland's normal way of finding the answers to such baffling questions is to
> demand the answers here.

Really? :-)

Sam

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Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sp227c$g5s$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:56 on Sat, 11 Dec
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> Obviously I’m only seeing this through the prism of, mainly Roland’s,
>>> second hand reports. However it seems that Android has useability issues.
>>
>> No, not normal Android phones, whose ysers can vuew PDFs perfectly well
>> without any Adobe software or any need to log into any service. Just the
>> 'special', second-hand ones Roland uses.
>
> Intriguing. Can you explain why a secondhand phone is less capable than
> one of the same age, owned from new?

Its current owner.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>
>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're making of this
>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>
>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>
>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>
> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
> the station to find the TVM broken.
>
> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
> phone.

We went to the cinema one evening last week. I ordered the tickets via the
web in the afternoon and they were sent to my email account. We could
check the email on my desktop, iPad or either of our phones. My email
provider allows me infinite addresses to be delivered to the same account,
and if I wanted I could filter them there, but mostly I don’t bother.
(They provide some simple filtering and a web front end to sieve for more
complex stuff.) When we got to the entrance to the cinema the attendant
scanned the QR code in the email message on my phone and told us which
seats and which screen we should go to. That information was also in
human-readable text in the message. For most of us it Just Works[tm]. If
I’d preferred I could also have gone to the counter in the cinema and
bought tickets there, and I might even have been able to use the phone and
have arranged to pick up pre-paid tickets.

Sam

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Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sov2hd$eb4$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:18:53 on Fri, 10 Dec
>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 10/12/2021 07:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <sotp1a$epk$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:30:33 on Thu, 9 Dec
>>>> 2021, Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>>>>> On 09/12/2021 17:57, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> On 09/12/2021 17:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <sosu8e$7ob$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:53:34 on Thu, 9 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 09/12/2021 11:30, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <soq8ge$qfh$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:06 on Wed, 8
>>>>>>>>> Dec 2021,  Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On 08/12/2021 11:45, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 11:14:01 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>>>>>>>>>>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And of course the two CoOps near me are operated by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely different
>>>>>>>>>>>>> organisations, so we need two different cards etc etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting - we also have competing CoOps near us.
>>>>>>>>>  Not very co-operative, is it!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  It's funny, I had no idea there were competing Co-Ops.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Historically, they started as separate Co-Ops for each town (or
>>>>>>>>>> district) in Northern England, commencing in Rochdale. There was
>>>>>>>>>> a "coming together" in, I think, the later years of the 20th
>>>>>>>>>> Century,  but a further separation in more recent years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Ours are I think "Central England" vs the larger countrywide
>>>>>>>>> one based  in Manchester.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Talking of which, back in the day there were many CoOp Building
>>>>>>>>> Societies, but it wasn't well known that most were one-branch
>>>>>>>>> affairs, which gave customers a false sense of security. After a
>>>>>>>>> couple of the frailer ones went broke, and no-one to bail them
>>>>>>>>> out, a regulator forced  them all to merge, to form a new organisation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  What name did they pick? Ironically the same as the Consumer
>>>>>>>>> Affairs programme which exposed the issue: Nationwide.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That was a long time ago! I thought the name was older than the
>>>>>>>> programme.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think so. For whatever reason I used to watch it nearly
>>>>>>> every  day, and this sequence of events played out.
>>>>
>>>>>>  I used to work on it, the downside of that is you don't actually
>>>>>> take  much notice of the content. Also more than likely that I
>>>>>> didn't work on  that episode.
>>>>>
>>>>> Off-topic even for us, but do you know how the digital clock behind the
>>>>> Nationwide presenters was operated?  It always showed the right time
>>>>> but, in years of careful watching, I never saw its Solari style digits
>>>>> flip over to the next minute on-screen, which struck me as curious.
>>>>> flip digits as [obrail] Solari board
>>>> A school-friend of mine worked for BBC engineering, and was "in
>>>> charge of digital clocks", so I might ask him. His pride and joy was
>>>> the Ceefax clock, which was locked to Rugby (and completely custom
>>>> built).
>>>> I keep meaning to study the BBC Breakfast (etc) clocks in more
>>>> detail to see how far off they are, especially as one of their Covid
>>>> geeks has a digital clock on the wall behind him. I have two adjacent
>>>> TVs, one on Freesat, the other on Freeview, and they are about two
>>>> seconds apart.
>>>
>>> One has the signal travelling a lot further than the other. Add in he
>>> digital delays on each tx chain (and rx chain) and you are going to get
>>> noticeable variations between nominally the same stations.
>>
>> Doesn't superficially explain why the terrestrial version is lagging
>> the satellite (although the explanation has to be the terrestrial
>> transmitter is getting a satellite feed, and is adding in a decode/
>> recode delay). It's about two seconds.
>
> Are they the same model of TV/decoder? Do they have a PVR function that
> might be intercepting the signal before displaying it? I’m not familiar
> with digital TV or audio broadcasting but I do just about enough about
> media streaming to be dangerous.

Let’s try that again: I do know just about enough about media streaming to
be dangerous.

Sam

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On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 15:29:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <sp0b4a$ro1$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:51:38 on Fri, 10 Dec
>2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>>> I have no control over the phone, or the apps I'm allowed to use.
>>
>>Well, there’s your trouble.
>
>We are where we are. And I won't be the only passenger in the same
>circumstances.

No, but it does put you in a small minority of the travelling public.
The TOCs and ticket vendors, not unreasonably, tend to design their
systems for the average traveller.

>>> On top of all the alerts for other things (Facebook postings in threads
>>> I'm interested in, Tweets from people I follow, etc etc) it would be
>>> wall to wall.
>>
>>Then configure the alert settings, for goodness’ sake!
>
>The alerts arise from swamping the phone with superfluous emails. I'm
>not aware of a way that Android allows the user to fine-tune alerts by
>filtering the stuff inside apps. Rather than saying "this app has
>received this one of many things, you are now alerted".
>
>Are you suggesting that I can set something in Android that only alerts
>me to emails arriving in gmail, that are from a specific shortlist of
>senders?

That would be app-specific, obviously. The Gmail app doesn't allow that
level of granularity, but does allow notifications to be toggled
independently for different accounts. So, for example, you could have
allmytickets@gmail with notifications switched on, and othermail@gmail
with notifications switched off.

Mark

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 08:42:33 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 10/12/2021 07:44, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <sotfh6$9no$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:48:22 on Thu, 9 Dec 2021,
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>>  My oldest Gmail account goes back to googlemail days as well. But
>>>> the  oldest email in the account is dated 2007, so not as old as yours.
>>>
>>> As I was with Demon[1] then I had no need of gmail at the time, I
>>> could have as many mailboxes as I wanted. I still only use gmail as a
>>> source of throwaway addresses to log into pub wifi and similar
>>
>> It's normally the case that Google locks their users into having Gmail
>> accounts for Android phones so comprehensively it's not worth the effort
>> to try to resist the borg.
>
>Yet another reason not to have an Android phone.

You need a Google account (which, by default, will come with a Gmail
email address, unles you explicitly give it a different one) in order to
use an Android phone. You need an Apple account (which, by default, will
come with an iCloud email address, unless you explicitly give it a
different one) in order to use an iPhone. Even if you choose to accept a
Gmail or iCloud address as part of the account, it does not prevent you
from also having other email addresses and other email accounts.

You do not need to use either the Gmail app or the Apple Mail app to
access your normal email, if you already have an email account which
exists independently of your Google or Apple account. In fact, you don't
even need to use the Gmail app or the Apple Mail app to acess your Gmail
or iCloud email, although, of course, the device will assume you want to
unless you explicitly configure it otherwise.

I don't actively use my iCloud email address at all, although it is
configured on my iPad is it would be more effort to remove it. There are
precisely two messages in the inbox: a "Welcome to iCloud Mail" message
from Apple and a test message from me to myself. I do use Gmail on my
Android phone as I was already a Gmail user before getting an Android
phone. But in both cases that's a choice, not something forced on me by
the hardware.

Mark

On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 15:45:47 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <sov5ho$27d$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:10:16 on Fri, 10 Dec
>2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 09/12/2021 19:21, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <soo710$nau$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:52:32 on Tue, 7 Dec 2021,
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>  If rail tickets were the only ecommerce product I ever bought, it
>>>>>> might,  just, be acceptable. But given that I buy from perhaps a
>>>>>> hundred, it's a  bit rich for whatever ATOC/Fat-Controller is called
>>>>>> this week to expect  me to bend over backwards for *their* convenience.
>>>>
>>>>>>  Far better, if we got back to the hear of this thread, they could be
>>>>>> bothered to keep their ticket machines operational, or provide PERTIS
>>>>>> machines, so passengers weren't forced to buy at the last minute
>>>>>> using their mobile, stood in the rain in the station car park, on
>>>>>> pain of a £100 fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> You need to get yourself organised, oh, and an umbrella. Personally if
>>>>> it is pouring with rail I'd do the on-line ordering before I got out
>>>>> of the car.
>>>>
>>>> But I don't know the TVM is broken until I get to it.
>>>
>>> Doesn't stop you going back to the car to get out f the rain or even
>>> sheltering under the station canopy while you order the ticket. No need
>>> to stand in the rain.
>>
>>The real point is that once you can cope with buying electronic tickets,
>>which seems to be Roland’s problem, you don’t need to worry about the
>>existence of a TVM, rain or no rain.
>
>The problem is the patchy nature of e-ticketing.
>
>>So far his arguments have been that he doesn’t like the apps (excuses
>>various), so folk have suggested he uses the emailed pdf, which then
>>generates a long list of spurious reasons why that’s not workable either.
>
>The reasons aren't spurious, and only arise because the e-ticketing
>platform is unable (by design) to deliver the tickets to my phone by a
>less last-century method.
>
>Or as I've found out the last couple of days, unable to deliver them at
>all. ["We've emailed you the PDF" - panto 'oh no you haven't']

It sounds very much to me as if you've managed to log in to the app
using a different email address to the one you used to buy the tickets
(you did create an account rather than buy as a guest, I hope?).

I've complained on here a couple of times about GA's ticketing but
now, for some unfathomable reason, I feel a strong urge to defend
them. I wonder why that would be?

And apparently I just heckle. Roland is just priceless.

On 13/12/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t9s9rgts5sfakjo1d78082i3c5il3c1cve@4ax.com>, at 18:55:52 on
> Sat, 11 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> remarked:
>> On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 13:08:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> WhatsApp has an API, which can be used to send a message to any number
>>>> registered with WhatsApp even if it isn't already known to you. So it
>>>> can be integrated into an online retail environment in a way which
>>>> allows a customer to supply their phone number and the system to then
>>>> send a message via WhatsApp to that number. From a business
>>>> perspective,
>>>> this is a very useful means of communicating with customers as
>>>> sending a
>>>> WhatsApp message is free, unlike SMS. Plus, of course, you can send
>>>> attachments, which you can't easily do with SMS. Abd unlike email and
>>>> SMS, WhatsApp has a delivery feedback mechanism built in so you know if
>>>> your message has reached the recipient.
>>>>
>>>> The downside, at the moment, is that access to the API is strictly
>>>> controlled (which it has to be, in order to prevent spammers using it),
>>>> and there are several hoops to jump through in order to get a Business
>>>> WhatsApp Account and be eligible for the API. So there are not, yet,
>>>> many organisations using it. But, in the long run, I expect it to
>>>> become
>>>> one of the primary means whereby businesses communicate with customers.
>>>
>>> The real problem is tying your retail delivery system into a third party
>>> owned proprietary system, owned by an outfit with ever diminishing
>>> public
>>> and political trust.
>>
>> The point is that if you are selling a product which can be delivered
>> digitally, then it makes sense, from a customer service perspective, to
>> offer multiple means of delivery. Even assuming that the primary means
>> remains email (which is likely, at least for the foreseeable future), it
>> would be a useful add-on for ticket vendors to be able to have an extra,
>> optional field on the order page which says something like "Enter your
>> phone number here to get the ticket sent to you via WhatsApp". That
>> doesn't override, or replace, the email delivery mechanism, but it would
>> be useful for a large number of customers. If WhatsApp ever goes out of
>> fashion, or is supplanted by a different IM system, then alternatives
>> which offer a similar API facility could be implemented instead of, or
>> even alongside, WhatsApp.
>>
>> Offering WhatsApp as an optional delivery mechanism is no more tying you
>> in to anything than offering traditional postal delivery of a printed
>> ticket ties you in to Royal Mail, or offering TVM printing ties you in
>> the machinery. On the contrary, the more different delivery mechanisms
>> you can offer, the less you and your customers are reliant on any single
>> one of them.
>
> I'd be happy if a train company with a train ticket booking app, could
> be arsed to send the tickets to that App's existing ticket wallet.
> Apparently Greater Anglia can't.

TfW can and do.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 13/12/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t9s9rgts5sfakjo1d78082i3c5il3c1cve@4ax.com>, at 18:55:52 on
>> Sat, 11 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 13:08:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> WhatsApp has an API, which can be used to send a message to any number
>>>>> registered with WhatsApp even if it isn't already known to you. So it
>>>>> can be integrated into an online retail environment in a way which
>>>>> allows a customer to supply their phone number and the system to then
>>>>> send a message via WhatsApp to that number. From a business
>>>>> perspective,
>>>>> this is a very useful means of communicating with customers as
>>>>> sending a
>>>>> WhatsApp message is free, unlike SMS. Plus, of course, you can send
>>>>> attachments, which you can't easily do with SMS. Abd unlike email and
>>>>> SMS, WhatsApp has a delivery feedback mechanism built in so you know if
>>>>> your message has reached the recipient.
>>>>>
>>>>> The downside, at the moment, is that access to the API is strictly
>>>>> controlled (which it has to be, in order to prevent spammers using it),
>>>>> and there are several hoops to jump through in order to get a Business
>>>>> WhatsApp Account and be eligible for the API. So there are not, yet,
>>>>> many organisations using it. But, in the long run, I expect it to
>>>>> become
>>>>> one of the primary means whereby businesses communicate with customers.
>>>>
>>>> The real problem is tying your retail delivery system into a third party
>>>> owned proprietary system, owned by an outfit with ever diminishing
>>>> public
>>>> and political trust.
>>>
>>> The point is that if you are selling a product which can be delivered
>>> digitally, then it makes sense, from a customer service perspective, to
>>> offer multiple means of delivery. Even assuming that the primary means
>>> remains email (which is likely, at least for the foreseeable future), it
>>> would be a useful add-on for ticket vendors to be able to have an extra,
>>> optional field on the order page which says something like "Enter your
>>> phone number here to get the ticket sent to you via WhatsApp". That
>>> doesn't override, or replace, the email delivery mechanism, but it would
>>> be useful for a large number of customers. If WhatsApp ever goes out of
>>> fashion, or is supplanted by a different IM system, then alternatives
>>> which offer a similar API facility could be implemented instead of, or
>>> even alongside, WhatsApp.
>>>
>>> Offering WhatsApp as an optional delivery mechanism is no more tying you
>>> in to anything than offering traditional postal delivery of a printed
>>> ticket ties you in to Royal Mail, or offering TVM printing ties you in
>>> the machinery. On the contrary, the more different delivery mechanisms
>>> you can offer, the less you and your customers are reliant on any single
>>> one of them.
>>
>> I'd be happy if a train company with a train ticket booking app, could
>> be arsed to send the tickets to that App's existing ticket wallet.
>> Apparently Greater Anglia can't.
>
> TfW can and do.
>

Well the EMR app offers to add an Ely to Soham single to a smart card
(can’t say what smart card, as the next step is to ask for my smart card
number) or to email me a ticket. So perhaps Roland can use his beloved ITSO
card after all. States there’s a maximum of 5 tickets that can go on said
card.

In message <sp7tef$18se$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:47:11 on Mon, 13 Dec
2021, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:06:05 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <sp7pqc$19tb$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:45:16 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>2021, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>WhatsApp is free, which is good for international calls, and also does
>>>>video calls, and group (conference) calls. The people you are messaging
>>>
>>>So do a boatload of apps without having to sign up to facebooks T&Cs.
>>
>>The only one which comes close is Skype, and that's been part of the
>>Microsoft empire for years.
>
>Zoom, Jabber, Slack, MS Teams.

Jabber, Grand-dad? MS Teams requires a corporate subscription as far as
I'm aware and like Zoom isn't store and forward. Never met anyone who
uses Slack.

>>>And how does that differ from email?
>>
>>The seamless integration with multimedia.
>
>Define seamless.

Take a photo, and broadcast it, all in a couple of clicks on the same
phone.

>>>>I thought we were discussing keeping in touch with "mates"?
>>>
>>>You invariably bring your job into the discussion so thought I'd pre-empt.
>>
>>You have no idea what my job is, and the one you might think it is, I
>>retired from three years ago.
>
>In which case you're retired full stop since someone with a sense of self
>importance such as yourself would have updated your linkedin long ago.

I've not used Linked-In for at least five years. It's a zombie site,
which has never lived up to its promise. Later... the photo is almost
20yrs old now.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sp7ss1$p9j$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:37:22 on Mon, 13 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>
>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>
>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>> rather than closing the app.
>>
>> There’s a rather easy way to find out, isn’t there?

Too late. I'm no longer trying to show a ticket to a gripper.

>Roland's normal way of finding the answers to such baffling questions is to
>demand the answers here.

Name one such question.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sp7uc4$nkk$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:03:00 on Mon, 13 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're
>>>>>making of this
>>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>>
>>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>>
>>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>>
>> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
>> the station to find the TVM broken.
>>
>> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
>> phone.
>
>We went to the cinema one evening last week. I ordered the tickets via the
>web in the afternoon and they were sent to my email account. We could
>check the email on my desktop, iPad or either of our phones. My email
>provider allows me infinite addresses to be delivered to the same account,
>and if I wanted I could filter them there, but mostly I don’t bother.
>(They provide some simple filtering and a web front end to sieve for more
>complex stuff.) When we got to the entrance to the cinema the attendant
>scanned the QR code in the email message on my phone and told us which
>seats and which screen we should go to. That information was also in
>human-readable text in the message. For most of us it Just Works[tm]. If
>I’d preferred I could also have gone to the counter in the cinema and
>bought tickets there, and I might even have been able to use the phone and
>have arranged to pick up pre-paid tickets.

I'm glad that entirely different set of circumstances worked for you.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sp7t6k$vot$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:43:00 on Mon, 13 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're
>>>>>making of this
>>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>>
>>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>>
>>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>>
>> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
>> the station to find the TVM broken.
>>
>> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
>> phone.
>
>Why don’t you order the tickets in advance, eg when leaving home? Then it’s
>irrelevant what the working status of the TVM is.

Because I don't want to spend that much time ordering tickets costing
typically less than £3 each, in advance.

Just like I'd rather pay a bus fare in ten seconds when boarding, rather
than have to order it in advance.

>Or do you randomly pass the station and suddenly decide you want to
>make a trip?

Quite often my choice, depending on where we are on the clockface, is to
catch a bus or a train.

And too many times I've got to the station and found the train has been
cancelled, so rather than wait an hour for the next one, decide to
abandon the trip until another day.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sp7tcd$3if$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:46:05 on Mon, 13 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're
>>>>>making of this
>>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>>
>>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>>
>>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>>
>> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
>> the station to find the TVM broken.
>>
>> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
>> phone.
>
>However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
>phone? Just about everyone else does.

Because the tickets have arrived on my PC, not on my phone.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sp7t6k$vot$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:43:00 on Mon, 13 Dec
> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're
>>>>>> making of this
>>>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>>>
>>>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>>>
>>>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>>>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>>>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>>>
>>> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
>>> the station to find the TVM broken.
>>>
>>> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
>>> phone.
>>
>> Why don’t you order the tickets in advance, eg when leaving home? Then it’s
>> irrelevant what the working status of the TVM is.
>
> Because I don't want to spend that much time ordering tickets costing
> typically less than £3 each, in advance.
>
> Just like I'd rather pay a bus fare in ten seconds when boarding, rather
> than have to order it in advance.
>
>> Or do you randomly pass the station and suddenly decide you want to
>> make a trip?
>
> Quite often my choice, depending on where we are on the clockface, is to
> catch a bus or a train.
>
> And too many times I've got to the station and found the train has been
> cancelled, so rather than wait an hour for the next one, decide to
> abandon the trip until another day.

After exploring the ITSO feature of the EMR app I had a closer look at the
e-ticket bit. It offers to deliver the e-ticket to the in app wallet, or by
email, where I can then save it to Apple Wallet. So your objection to email
vanishes as the app can save the ticket. So at this point I can’t see how
it is any harder to use than the TVM, and you could do it from the car in
the station car park. Also displays live departures, so you can’t moan
about not knowing the train running status from the comfort of your car.

I await the reasons why this is now totally impractical……..

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sp7tcd$3if$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:46:05 on Mon, 13 Dec
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're
>>>>>> making of this
>>>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>>>
>>>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>>>
>>>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>>>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>>>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>>>
>>> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
>>> the station to find the TVM broken.
>>>
>>> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
>>> phone.
>>
>> However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
>> phone? Just about everyone else does.
>
> Because the tickets have arrived on my PC, not on my phone.

They can arrive on both you know…..

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp7tcd$3if$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:46:05 on Mon, 13 Dec
>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're
>>>>>>> making of this
>>>>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>>>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>>>>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>>>>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>>>>
>>>> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
>>>> the station to find the TVM broken.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
>>>> phone.
>>>
>>> However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
>>> phone? Just about everyone else does.
>>
>> Because the tickets have arrived on my PC, not on my phone.
>
> They can arrive on both you know…..

NOOOOOOO!!!

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sp7tcd$3if$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:46:05 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're
>>>>>>>> making of this
>>>>>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>>>>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>>>>>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>>>>>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>>>>>
>>>>> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
>>>>> the station to find the TVM broken.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
>>>>> phone.
>>>>
>>>> However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
>>>> phone? Just about everyone else does.
>>>
>>> Because the tickets have arrived on my PC, not on my phone.
>>
>> They can arrive on both you know…..
>
> NOOOOOOO!!!
>
> Sam
>

Sorry, couldn’t resist……

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp7tcd$3if$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:46:05 on Mon, 13 Dec
>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're
>>>>>>> making of this
>>>>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>>>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>>>>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>>>>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>>>>
>>>> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
>>>> the station to find the TVM broken.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
>>>> phone.
>>>
>>> However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
>>> phone? Just about everyone else does.
>>
>> Because the tickets have arrived on my PC, not on my phone.
>
> They can arrive on both you know…..

Isn't that against Heisenberg's uncertainty principle? You would need a
quantum mechanics solution to the problem…

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sp7tcd$3if$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:46:05 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're
>>>>>>>> making of this
>>>>>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>>>>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>>>>>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any ordinary person,
>>>>>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>>>>>
>>>>> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
>>>>> the station to find the TVM broken.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
>>>>> phone.
>>>>
>>>> However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
>>>> phone? Just about everyone else does.
>>>
>>> Because the tickets have arrived on my PC, not on my phone.
>>
>> They can arrive on both you know…..
>
> Isn't that against Heisenberg's uncertainty principle? You would need a
> quantum mechanics solution to the problem…
>
>

Schrödinger’s ticket….

In message <sp89f2$kgh$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:12:18 on Mon, 13 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp7tcd$3if$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:46:05 on Mon, 13 Dec
>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sp7s8a$dhf$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:26:50 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <sp7ob7$ukf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:20:07 on Mon, 13 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <5le3YYTK0=s9NL3Z5LJXMYJlxRqd@4ax.com>, at 14:28:12 on Mon,
>>>>>>>> 13 Dec 2021, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:35:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But still requires launching and logging-in to Adobe. Which of course
>>>>>>>>>> once again requires connectivity (to facilitate the log-in).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No it doesn't. You bypass the login screen by clicking the cross in
>>>>>>>>> the top right hand corner.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not at all obvious that this would circumvent the need to log in,
>>>>>>>> rather than closing the app.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even knowing you, I'm astonished at the heavy weather you're
>>>>>>> making of this
>>>>>>> trivial, self-inflicted problem!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I didn't inflict the brain-dead last century ticket delivery
>>>>>> mechanism upon myself. That was Greater Anglia.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's how many tickets of all sorts get routinely delivered (eg, to
>>>>> exhibitions, cinemas, shows, etc). I've never heard of any
>>>>>ordinary person,
>>>>> even non-techie oldies, having a problem — just you.
>>>>
>>>> But most of those are not required in real time when you've arrived at
>>>> the station to find the TVM broken.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I have ordered such tickets, weeks in advance, on my PC, not my
>>>> phone.
>>>
>>> However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
>>> phone? Just about everyone else does.
>>
>> Because the tickets have arrived on my PC, not on my phone.
>
>They can arrive on both you know…..

Groundhog day! Yes in theory they can, but I have too many emails
arriving at my desktop to be manageable on a phone.
--
Roland Perry