Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spdc4j$a5i$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:36 on Wed, 15 Dec
> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spd34h$vag$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>> On 15/12/2021 15:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <spavjo$qqm$10@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:33 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tesco's latest scam, which I'm now wise to after being stung twice
>>>>>> [1], is to have what looks like a meal deal or 3-for-£1.50 (etc) but
>>>>>> which is actually for clubcard holders only.
>>>
>>>>> Surely you have a Tesco Loyalty card on your phone?
>>>>> [I know they exist, because my wife went to Tesco six months ago and
>>>>> forgot to take her plastic card, so we spent an interesting fifteen
>>>>> minutes getting a work-alike pushed to her phone].
>>>
>>>>> As for the so-called "scam", those offers have quite distinctive
>>>>> yellow labelling.
>>>
>>>> Is that what they are? I don't go to Tesco often enough to be aware.
>>>
>>> It's quite a new promotion I think. Less than a year. Although I think
>>> they might have trialled it on a few items not in a combined deal,
>>> slightly earlier.
>>>
>>> <https://digitalcontent.api.tesco.com/v2/media/ghs-mktg/4085b51c-fc3d-
>>> 4ea0-9893-4a00a89e4beb/CCP-GHS-743x430-Tag.jpeg>
>>
>> Of course it’s a scam. Applied to things where you don’t actually know the
>> true price off hand. Like a bottle of port I purchased. Mark as £15 and
>> then sell at £10 club card price. Clearly the £15 was made up to make
>> suckers think they are special and getting a bargain at £10. Ooh look - I
>> saved £5, aren’t Tesco really cheap.
>
> All the things I've bought on the promotion were genuinely cheaper.
>

They would have been cheaper anyway - there’s no reason why waving a bit of
plastic (possibly virtual) should make goods cheaper. They either want shot
of the goods or not. Loyalty cards are all about psychological manipulation
of the customer. Even Lidl has now got in on the act.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spd3ci$4i2$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:59:14 on Wed, 15 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 14:13:07 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <csk4rghk31luqbj54d6mbr93pge8ssj7jd@4ax.com>, at 19:09:15 on
>>>> Thu, 9 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>> Email is, at least, reasonably universal. I'm not a huge fan of having
>>>>> to install a different app for every service I use. Maybe TOCs could
>>>>> offer ticket delivery via WhatsApp.
>>>>
>>>> Something less century than PDF, anyway.
>>>
>>> PDFs work everywhere. Not everyone has WhatsCrap or similar social media
>>> nonsense installed.
>>
>> WhatsApp isn't social media. Yes it's recently been purchased by Facebook,
>> but it's still a simple messaging app - basically texting by WiFi/mobile
>> data, rather than by the (potentially chargeable) SMS system.
>
> The one-to-many [and anyone in the group replying] nature (should you
> choose to use it) of WhatsApp is definitely social media.

Just like email lists circa 1970-something.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <Hc3WE2DsOhuhFAua@perry.uk>, Roland Perry
<roland@perry.co.uk> writes
>In message <spd3ci$4i2$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:59:14 on Wed, 15 Dec
>2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>WhatsApp isn't social media. Yes it's recently been purchased by Facebook,
>>but it's still a simple messaging app - basically texting by WiFi/mobile
>>data, rather than by the (potentially chargeable) SMS system.
>
>The one-to-many [and anyone in the group replying] nature (should you
>choose to use it) of WhatsApp is definitely social media.

IMHO, nothing from the facebook stable can be viewed as social (given
their approach to doing things).

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "bulleid" with "adrian" - all mail to bulleid is rejected
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

On 15/12/2021 15:50, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <vn1krgdr3pirmh8272gfju5ggtskkvgmiq@4ax.com>, at 15:17:50 on
> Wed, 15 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 14:42:48 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <spb5g8$1vp$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:23:04 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> Doesn't everyone carry a torch in their pocket these days?
>>>>
>>>> Roland probably doesn't know his phone includes a torch, or how to
>>>> switch
>>>> it on.
>>>
>>> I'm struggling to understand what possible motive you have for making
>>> such crassly stupid postings.
>>
>> Well, do you know how to use the torch in your phone?
>
> Obviously. My power pack also has a torch in it, if I have the power
> pack about my person, which is unlikely if I've just popped to the
> hospital for a clinic appointment, expecting the ticket machine not to
> be in total darkness.

On my car key-ring I have a small torch operated by turning a handle -
never runs out and always available.

--
Colin

In message <spdeb9$q6h$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:06:17 on Wed, 15 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spd3ci$4i2$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:59:14 on Wed, 15 Dec
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 14:13:07 +0000
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <csk4rghk31luqbj54d6mbr93pge8ssj7jd@4ax.com>, at 19:09:15 on
>>>>> Thu, 9 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email is, at least, reasonably universal. I'm not a huge fan of having
>>>>>> to install a different app for every service I use. Maybe TOCs could
>>>>>> offer ticket delivery via WhatsApp.
>>>>>
>>>>> Something less century than PDF, anyway.
>>>>
>>>> PDFs work everywhere. Not everyone has WhatsCrap or similar social media
>>>> nonsense installed.
>>>
>>> WhatsApp isn't social media. Yes it's recently been purchased by Facebook,
>>> but it's still a simple messaging app - basically texting by WiFi/mobile
>>> data, rather than by the (potentially chargeable) SMS system.
>>
>> The one-to-many [and anyone in the group replying] nature (should you
>> choose to use it) of WhatsApp is definitely social media.
>
>Just like email lists circa 1970-something.

Yes, it's very similar to classic private email lists (sometimes the
best ideas are the simple ones).

I'm still on several professional mailing lists [posted a query to one
only yesterday, got four replies], the main difference to Usenet/
Facebook/Twitter being people are unfailingly knowledgeable and polite.
Typically they can be about as busy as uk.r, although a few only get a
handful of postings a week.
--
Roland Perry

In message <Ry77DvOL2juhFw+3@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 19:10:03 on Wed, 15 Dec
2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:
>In message <Hc3WE2DsOhuhFAua@perry.uk>, Roland Perry
><roland@perry.co.uk> writes
>>In message <spd3ci$4i2$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:59:14 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>WhatsApp isn't social media. Yes it's recently been purchased by Facebook,
>>>but it's still a simple messaging app - basically texting by WiFi/mobile
>>>data, rather than by the (potentially chargeable) SMS system.
>>
>>The one-to-many [and anyone in the group replying] nature (should you
>>choose to use it) of WhatsApp is definitely social media.
>
>IMHO, nothing from the facebook stable can be viewed as social (given
>their approach to doing things).

Like "instant printing" it's a description of the process, not the
delivery.

FWIW, I'm in several private Facebook groups where everyone gets on
famously. And most of the moderated ones are OK.

To dismiss the whole thing out of hand, is like claiming every train has
the atmosphere of a drunken football special.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spdooe$2r5$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:03:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
2021, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>On 15/12/2021 15:50, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <vn1krgdr3pirmh8272gfju5ggtskkvgmiq@4ax.com>, at 15:17:50
>>on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 14:42:48 +0000, Roland Perry
>>><roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <spb5g8$1vp$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:23:04 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't everyone carry a torch in their pocket these days?
>>>>>
>>>>> Roland probably doesn't know his phone includes a torch, or how to
>>>>>switch
>>>>> it on.
>>>>
>>>> I'm struggling to understand what possible motive you have for making
>>>> such crassly stupid postings.
>>>
>>> Well, do you know how to use the torch in your phone?

>> Obviously. My power pack also has a torch in it, if I have the power
>>pack about my person, which is unlikely if I've just popped to the
>>hospital for a clinic appointment, expecting the ticket machine not to
>>be in total darkness.
>
>On my car key-ring I have a small torch operated by turning a handle -
>never runs out and always available.

That's another thing that doesn't necessarily scale well. We have two
cars, and two sets of keys (one each). Just one has a miniature
mercury-cell powered 'maglite'. Which reminds me, I must replace the
batteries.

<Thread convergence> And another is the only one with the Tesco clubcard
fob.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spddmo$lj8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:55:20 on Wed, 15 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spdc4j$a5i$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:36 on Wed, 15 Dec
>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spd34h$vag$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>> On 15/12/2021 15:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spavjo$qqm$10@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:33 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tesco's latest scam, which I'm now wise to after being stung twice
>>>>>>> [1], is to have what looks like a meal deal or 3-for-£1.50 (etc) but
>>>>>>> which is actually for clubcard holders only.
>>>>
>>>>>> Surely you have a Tesco Loyalty card on your phone?
>>>>>> [I know they exist, because my wife went to Tesco six months ago and
>>>>>> forgot to take her plastic card, so we spent an interesting fifteen
>>>>>> minutes getting a work-alike pushed to her phone].
>>>>
>>>>>> As for the so-called "scam", those offers have quite distinctive
>>>>>> yellow labelling.
>>>>
>>>>> Is that what they are? I don't go to Tesco often enough to be aware.
>>>>
>>>> It's quite a new promotion I think. Less than a year. Although I think
>>>> they might have trialled it on a few items not in a combined deal,
>>>> slightly earlier.
>>>>
>>>> <https://digitalcontent.api.tesco.com/v2/media/ghs-mktg/4085b51c-fc3d-
>>>> 4ea0-9893-4a00a89e4beb/CCP-GHS-743x430-Tag.jpeg>
>>>
>>> Of course it’s a scam. Applied to things where you don’t
>>>actually know the
>>> true price off hand. Like a bottle of port I purchased. Mark as £15 and
>>> then sell at £10 club card price. Clearly the £15 was made up to make
>>> suckers think they are special and getting a bargain at £10. Ooh look - I
>>> saved £5, aren’t Tesco really cheap.
>>
>> All the things I've bought on the promotion were genuinely cheaper.
>
>They would have been cheaper anyway - there’s no reason why waving a bit of
>plastic (possibly virtual) should make goods cheaper.

It's variously called a "loss leader", or a "promotional item". And it's
trivial to compare the prices with those of the same product on a
different shelf (there almost always is, somewhere else in the store) or
what one remembers the "street price" is, from previous purchases or
other stores.

Take a simple example - Prosecco (and I've never had a duff bottle,
unlike cheap still wine) street price £7.99, and therefore seeing it
for say £5.99 is a bargain. Although there are some stores with a
routine 25% off-for-six, so that would be back to £5.99 if you actually
wanted six. [Hence £2 of the £7.99 is actually a non-multibuy tax]

>They either want shot of the goods or not.

What they actually want is footfall, not necessarily just for that item.
In any event, many of the promotions are partly subsidised by the
supplier, who is trying to buy brand recognition in such major stores.

>Loyalty cards are all about psychological manipulation
>of the customer. Even Lidl has now got in on the act.

You are free to think that building store loyalty is psychological
manipulation, but I prefer to be more concerned about other types on
in-store manipulation, such as selling bigger-sized packs at a higher
price-per-kg than smaller ones, or having a four-pack selling for more
than four individuals (especially if the latter also has a
three-for-two).

Something Morrisons used to do that annoyed me, was obfuscate which
products were included in group "any four for three" type offers. So
that it was far too easy to end up buying three and a fourth, neither of
which triggered the offer. One of Aldi's advantages
--
Roland Perry

In message <RWezWsZI+tuhFAtZ@perry.uk>, at 06:41:12 on Thu, 16 Dec 2021,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>In message <spdooe$2r5$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:03:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
>2021, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>On 15/12/2021 15:50, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <vn1krgdr3pirmh8272gfju5ggtskkvgmiq@4ax.com>, at 15:17:50
>>>on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 14:42:48 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>><roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <spb5g8$1vp$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:23:04 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't everyone carry a torch in their pocket these days?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roland probably doesn't know his phone includes a torch, or how
>>>>>>to switch
>>>>>> it on.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm struggling to understand what possible motive you have for making
>>>>> such crassly stupid postings.
>>>>
>>>> Well, do you know how to use the torch in your phone?
>
>>> Obviously. My power pack also has a torch in it, if I have the
>>>power pack about my person, which is unlikely if I've just popped to
>>>the hospital for a clinic appointment, expecting the ticket machine
>>>not to be in total darkness.
>>
>>On my car key-ring I have a small torch operated by turning a handle -
>>never runs out and always available.
>
>That's another thing that doesn't necessarily scale well. We have two
>cars, and two sets of keys (one each).

I mean we both have two sets of keys, one for each car. Four sets in
total. Never buy a car with fancy keys and only one supplied.

>Just one has a miniature mercury-cell powered 'maglite'. Which reminds
>me, I must replace the batteries.
>
><Thread convergence> And another is the only one with the Tesco
>clubcard fob.

--
Roland Perry

In message <pUSdWDc4duuhFA6u@perry.uk>, at 07:15:04 on Thu, 16 Dec 2021,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>In message <spddmo$lj8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:55:20 on Wed, 15 Dec
>2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spdc4j$a5i$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:36 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spd34h$vag$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>> On 15/12/2021 15:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spavjo$qqm$10@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:33 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tesco's latest scam, which I'm now wise to after being stung twice
>>>>>>>> [1], is to have what looks like a meal deal or 3-for-£1.50 (etc) but
>>>>>>>> which is actually for clubcard holders only.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Surely you have a Tesco Loyalty card on your phone?
>>>>>>> [I know they exist, because my wife went to Tesco six months ago and
>>>>>>> forgot to take her plastic card, so we spent an interesting fifteen
>>>>>>> minutes getting a work-alike pushed to her phone].
>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for the so-called "scam", those offers have quite distinctive
>>>>>>> yellow labelling.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that what they are? I don't go to Tesco often enough to be aware.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's quite a new promotion I think. Less than a year. Although I think
>>>>> they might have trialled it on a few items not in a combined deal,
>>>>> slightly earlier.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://digitalcontent.api.tesco.com/v2/media/ghs-mktg/4085b51c-fc3d-
>>>>> 4ea0-9893-4a00a89e4beb/CCP-GHS-743x430-Tag.jpeg>
>>>>
>>>> Of course it’s a scam. Applied to things where you don’t
>>>>actually know the
>>>> true price off hand. Like a bottle of port I purchased. Mark as £15 and
>>>> then sell at £10 club card price. Clearly the £15 was made up to make
>>>> suckers think they are special and getting a bargain at £10. Ooh look - I
>>>> saved £5, aren’t Tesco really cheap.
>>>
>>> All the things I've bought on the promotion were genuinely cheaper.
>>
>>They would have been cheaper anyway - there’s no reason why waving a bit of
>>plastic (possibly virtual) should make goods cheaper.
>
>It's variously called a "loss leader", or a "promotional item". And
>it's trivial to compare the prices with those of the same product on a
>different shelf (there almost always is, somewhere else in the store)
>or what one remembers the "street price" is, from previous purchases or
>other stores.
>
>Take a simple example - Prosecco (and I've never had a duff bottle,
>unlike cheap still wine) street price £7.99, and therefore seeing it
>for say £5.99 is a bargain. Although there are some stores with a
>routine 25% off-for-six, so that would be back to £5.99 if you
>actually wanted six. [Hence £2 of the £7.99 is actually a non-multibuy tax]
>
>>They either want shot of the goods or not.
>
>What they actually want is footfall, not necessarily just for that
>item. In any event, many of the promotions are partly subsidised by the
>supplier, who is trying to buy brand recognition in such major stores.
>
>>Loyalty cards are all about psychological manipulation
>>of the customer. Even Lidl has now got in on the act.
>
>You are free to think that building store loyalty is psychological
>manipulation, but I prefer to be more concerned about other types on
>in-store manipulation, such as selling bigger-sized packs at a higher
>price-per-kg than smaller ones, or having a four-pack selling for more
>than four individuals (especially if the latter also has a three-for-two).
>
>Something Morrisons used to do that annoyed me, was obfuscate which
>products were included in group "any four for three" type offers. So
>that it was far too easy to end up buying three and a fourth, neither
>of which triggered the offer. One of Aldi's advantages

<cough> ... they don't do any of these kinds of offers. Just the
"Special Buys". Although the very best value is Special Buys on
clearance (assuming you actually want that particular thing which
it turns out others don't).
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spddmo$lj8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:55:20 on Wed, 15 Dec
> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spdc4j$a5i$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:36 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spd34h$vag$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>> On 15/12/2021 15:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spavjo$qqm$10@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:33 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tesco's latest scam, which I'm now wise to after being stung twice
>>>>>>>> [1], is to have what looks like a meal deal or 3-for-£1.50 (etc) but
>>>>>>>> which is actually for clubcard holders only.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Surely you have a Tesco Loyalty card on your phone?
>>>>>>> [I know they exist, because my wife went to Tesco six months ago and
>>>>>>> forgot to take her plastic card, so we spent an interesting fifteen
>>>>>>> minutes getting a work-alike pushed to her phone].
>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for the so-called "scam", those offers have quite distinctive
>>>>>>> yellow labelling.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that what they are? I don't go to Tesco often enough to be aware.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's quite a new promotion I think. Less than a year. Although I think
>>>>> they might have trialled it on a few items not in a combined deal,
>>>>> slightly earlier.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://digitalcontent.api.tesco.com/v2/media/ghs-mktg/4085b51c-fc3d-
>>>>> 4ea0-9893-4a00a89e4beb/CCP-GHS-743x430-Tag.jpeg>
>>>>
>>>> Of course it’s a scam. Applied to things where you don’t
>>>> actually know the
>>>> true price off hand. Like a bottle of port I purchased. Mark as £15 and
>>>> then sell at £10 club card price. Clearly the £15 was made up to make
>>>> suckers think they are special and getting a bargain at £10. Ooh look - I
>>>> saved £5, aren’t Tesco really cheap.
>>>
>>> All the things I've bought on the promotion were genuinely cheaper.
>>
>> They would have been cheaper anyway - there’s no reason why waving a bit of
>> plastic (possibly virtual) should make goods cheaper.
>
> It's variously called a "loss leader", or a "promotional item". And it's
> trivial to compare the prices with those of the same product on a
> different shelf (there almost always is, somewhere else in the store) or
> what one remembers the "street price" is, from previous purchases or
> other stores.
>
You miss my point - the promotional item shouldn’t depend on waving a
loyalty card. I don’t mind them promoting an item to increase footfall, but
limiting it to loyalty card holders is manipulation.

In message <speqeg$9tu$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:38:56 on Thu, 16 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spddmo$lj8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:55:20 on Wed, 15 Dec
>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spdc4j$a5i$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:36 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spd34h$vag$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>> On 15/12/2021 15:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <spavjo$qqm$10@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:33 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tesco's latest scam, which I'm now wise to after being stung twice
>>>>>>>>> [1], is to have what looks like a meal deal or 3-for-£1.50 (etc) but
>>>>>>>>> which is actually for clubcard holders only.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Surely you have a Tesco Loyalty card on your phone?
>>>>>>>> [I know they exist, because my wife went to Tesco six months ago and
>>>>>>>> forgot to take her plastic card, so we spent an interesting fifteen
>>>>>>>> minutes getting a work-alike pushed to her phone].
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for the so-called "scam", those offers have quite distinctive
>>>>>>>> yellow labelling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is that what they are? I don't go to Tesco often enough to be aware.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's quite a new promotion I think. Less than a year. Although I think
>>>>>> they might have trialled it on a few items not in a combined deal,
>>>>>> slightly earlier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://digitalcontent.api.tesco.com/v2/media/ghs-mktg/4085b51c-fc3d-
>>>>>> 4ea0-9893-4a00a89e4beb/CCP-GHS-743x430-Tag.jpeg>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course it’s a scam. Applied to things where you don’t
>>>>> actually know the
>>>>> true price off hand. Like a bottle of port I purchased. Mark as £15 and
>>>>> then sell at £10 club card price. Clearly the £15 was made up to make
>>>>> suckers think they are special and getting a bargain at £10. Ooh look - I
>>>>> saved £5, aren’t Tesco really cheap.
>>>>
>>>> All the things I've bought on the promotion were genuinely cheaper.
>>>
>>> They would have been cheaper anyway - there’s no reason why waving
>>>bit of plastic (possibly virtual) should make goods cheaper.
>>
>> It's variously called a "loss leader", or a "promotional item". And it's
>> trivial to compare the prices with those of the same product on a
>> different shelf (there almost always is, somewhere else in the store) or
>> what one remembers the "street price" is, from previous purchases or
>> other stores.
>>
>You miss my point - the promotional item shouldn’t depend on waving a
>loyalty card. I don’t mind them promoting an item to increase footfall, but
>limiting it to loyalty card holders is manipulation.

Do you think the vouchers issued at tills for special discounts on
specific items, or the ones they send through the post for specific
discounts, are manipulation too?

I've got one here: "Save £1 on Alpro coconut yoghurt". Can't get much
more specific than that. Although I also have a "£5 off selected
Homeware", which has a long list - and excludes Christmas Decorations.
Bah Humbug.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <speqeg$9tu$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:38:56 on Thu, 16 Dec
> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spddmo$lj8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:55:20 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spdc4j$a5i$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:36 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spd34h$vag$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 15/12/2021 15:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <spavjo$qqm$10@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:33 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tesco's latest scam, which I'm now wise to after being stung twice
>>>>>>>>>> [1], is to have what looks like a meal deal or 3-for-£1.50 (etc) but
>>>>>>>>>> which is actually for clubcard holders only.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Surely you have a Tesco Loyalty card on your phone?
>>>>>>>>> [I know they exist, because my wife went to Tesco six months ago and
>>>>>>>>> forgot to take her plastic card, so we spent an interesting fifteen
>>>>>>>>> minutes getting a work-alike pushed to her phone].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for the so-called "scam", those offers have quite distinctive
>>>>>>>>> yellow labelling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is that what they are? I don't go to Tesco often enough to be aware.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's quite a new promotion I think. Less than a year. Although I think
>>>>>>> they might have trialled it on a few items not in a combined deal,
>>>>>>> slightly earlier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://digitalcontent.api.tesco.com/v2/media/ghs-mktg/4085b51c-fc3d-
>>>>>>> 4ea0-9893-4a00a89e4beb/CCP-GHS-743x430-Tag.jpeg>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course it’s a scam. Applied to things where you don’t
>>>>>> actually know the
>>>>>> true price off hand. Like a bottle of port I purchased. Mark as £15 and
>>>>>> then sell at £10 club card price. Clearly the £15 was made up to make
>>>>>> suckers think they are special and getting a bargain at £10. Ooh look - I
>>>>>> saved £5, aren’t Tesco really cheap.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the things I've bought on the promotion were genuinely cheaper.
>>>>
>>>> They would have been cheaper anyway - there’s no reason why waving
>>>> bit of plastic (possibly virtual) should make goods cheaper.
>>>
>>> It's variously called a "loss leader", or a "promotional item". And it's
>>> trivial to compare the prices with those of the same product on a
>>> different shelf (there almost always is, somewhere else in the store) or
>>> what one remembers the "street price" is, from previous purchases or
>>> other stores.
>>>
>> You miss my point - the promotional item shouldn’t depend on waving a
>> loyalty card. I don’t mind them promoting an item to increase footfall, but
>> limiting it to loyalty card holders is manipulation.
>
> Do you think the vouchers issued at tills for special discounts on
> specific items, or the ones they send through the post for specific
> discounts, are manipulation too?
>
> I've got one here: "Save £1 on Alpro coconut yoghurt". Can't get much
> more specific than that. Although I also have a "£5 off selected
> Homeware", which has a long list - and excludes Christmas Decorations.
> Bah Humbug.

Well yes and no. If the till coupons are for stuff they need to get shot
of, then no - that’s just drawing attention to the offer. It’s the you’re a
club card holder and you get something others don’t is what I object to.
It’s not like, say an airline card where you get more perks for spending
more. Here it’s just a card that anyone can have, and on that basis why
can’t anyone have the offer regardless?

In message <spf40d$3gq$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:22:05 on Thu, 16 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <speqeg$9tu$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:38:56 on Thu, 16 Dec
>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <spddmo$lj8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:55:20 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spdc4j$a5i$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:36 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <spd34h$vag$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 15/12/2021 15:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <spavjo$qqm$10@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:33 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tesco's latest scam, which I'm now wise to after being stung twice
>>>>>>>>>>> [1], is to have what looks like a meal deal or 3-for-£1.50
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> which is actually for clubcard holders only.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Surely you have a Tesco Loyalty card on your phone?
>>>>>>>>>> [I know they exist, because my wife went to Tesco six months ago and
>>>>>>>>>> forgot to take her plastic card, so we spent an interesting fifteen
>>>>>>>>>> minutes getting a work-alike pushed to her phone].
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As for the so-called "scam", those offers have quite distinctive
>>>>>>>>>> yellow labelling.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is that what they are? I don't go to Tesco often enough to be aware.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's quite a new promotion I think. Less than a year. Although I think
>>>>>>>> they might have trialled it on a few items not in a combined deal,
>>>>>>>> slightly earlier.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://digitalcontent.api.tesco.com/v2/media/ghs-mktg/4085b51c-fc3d-
>>>>>>>> 4ea0-9893-4a00a89e4beb/CCP-GHS-743x430-Tag.jpeg>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course it’s a scam. Applied to things where you don’t
>>>>>>> actually know the
>>>>>>> true price off hand. Like a bottle of port I purchased. Mark as £15 and
>>>>>>> then sell at £10 club card price. Clearly the £15 was made up to make
>>>>>>> suckers think they are special and getting a bargain at £10.
>>>>>>>look - I
>>>>>>> saved £5, aren’t Tesco really cheap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the things I've bought on the promotion were genuinely cheaper.
>>>>>
>>>>> They would have been cheaper anyway - there’s no reason why waving
>>>>> bit of plastic (possibly virtual) should make goods cheaper.
>>>>
>>>> It's variously called a "loss leader", or a "promotional item". And it's
>>>> trivial to compare the prices with those of the same product on a
>>>> different shelf (there almost always is, somewhere else in the store) or
>>>> what one remembers the "street price" is, from previous purchases or
>>>> other stores.
>>>>
>>> You miss my point - the promotional item shouldn’t depend on
>>>waving a loyalty card. I don’t mind them promoting an item to
>>>increase footfall, but limiting it to loyalty card holders is
>>>manipulation.
>>
>> Do you think the vouchers issued at tills for special discounts on
>> specific items, or the ones they send through the post for specific
>> discounts, are manipulation too?
>>
>> I've got one here: "Save £1 on Alpro coconut yoghurt". Can't get much
>> more specific than that. Although I also have a "£5 off selected
>> Homeware", which has a long list - and excludes Christmas Decorations.
>> Bah Humbug.
>
>Well yes and no. If the till coupons are for stuff they need to get shot
>of, then no

They never need to "get shot" of stuff in bulk like that. It's a
promotion, and quite likely specially bought-in stock, that's probably
on sale-or-return.

>- that’s just drawing attention to the offer. It’s the you’re a
>club card holder and you get something others don’t is what I object to.

Which is exactly what the till and mailed vouchers are!!

>It’s not like, say an airline card where you get more perks for spending
>more. Here it’s just a card that anyone can have, and on that basis why
>can’t anyone have the offer regardless?

The card is free, why can't everyone get one?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spf40d$3gq$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:22:05 on Thu, 16 Dec
> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <speqeg$9tu$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:38:56 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spddmo$lj8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:55:20 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spdc4j$a5i$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:36 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <spd34h$vag$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>>>>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On 15/12/2021 15:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <spavjo$qqm$10@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:33 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tesco's latest scam, which I'm now wise to after being stung twice
>>>>>>>>>>>> [1], is to have what looks like a meal deal or 3-for-£1.50
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> which is actually for clubcard holders only.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Surely you have a Tesco Loyalty card on your phone?
>>>>>>>>>>> [I know they exist, because my wife went to Tesco six months ago and
>>>>>>>>>>> forgot to take her plastic card, so we spent an interesting fifteen
>>>>>>>>>>> minutes getting a work-alike pushed to her phone].
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As for the so-called "scam", those offers have quite distinctive
>>>>>>>>>>> yellow labelling.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is that what they are? I don't go to Tesco often enough to be aware.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's quite a new promotion I think. Less than a year. Although I think
>>>>>>>>> they might have trialled it on a few items not in a combined deal,
>>>>>>>>> slightly earlier.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://digitalcontent.api.tesco.com/v2/media/ghs-mktg/4085b51c-fc3d-
>>>>>>>>> 4ea0-9893-4a00a89e4beb/CCP-GHS-743x430-Tag.jpeg>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course it’s a scam. Applied to things where you don’t
>>>>>>>> actually know the
>>>>>>>> true price off hand. Like a bottle of port I purchased. Mark as £15 and
>>>>>>>> then sell at £10 club card price. Clearly the £15 was made up to make
>>>>>>>> suckers think they are special and getting a bargain at £10.
>>>>>>>> look - I
>>>>>>>> saved £5, aren’t Tesco really cheap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All the things I've bought on the promotion were genuinely cheaper.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They would have been cheaper anyway - there’s no reason why waving
>>>>>> bit of plastic (possibly virtual) should make goods cheaper.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's variously called a "loss leader", or a "promotional item". And it's
>>>>> trivial to compare the prices with those of the same product on a
>>>>> different shelf (there almost always is, somewhere else in the store) or
>>>>> what one remembers the "street price" is, from previous purchases or
>>>>> other stores.
>>>>>
>>>> You miss my point - the promotional item shouldn’t depend on
>>>> waving a loyalty card. I don’t mind them promoting an item to
>>>> increase footfall, but limiting it to loyalty card holders is
>>>> manipulation.
>>>
>>> Do you think the vouchers issued at tills for special discounts on
>>> specific items, or the ones they send through the post for specific
>>> discounts, are manipulation too?
>>>
>>> I've got one here: "Save £1 on Alpro coconut yoghurt". Can't get much
>>> more specific than that. Although I also have a "£5 off selected
>>> Homeware", which has a long list - and excludes Christmas Decorations.
>>> Bah Humbug.
>>
>> Well yes and no. If the till coupons are for stuff they need to get shot
>> of, then no
>
> They never need to "get shot" of stuff in bulk like that. It's a
> promotion, and quite likely specially bought-in stock, that's probably
> on sale-or-return.
>
>> - that’s just drawing attention to the offer. It’s the you’re a
>> club card holder and you get something others don’t is what I object to.
>
> Which is exactly what the till and mailed vouchers are!!
>
>> It’s not like, say an airline card where you get more perks for spending
>> more. Here it’s just a card that anyone can have, and on that basis why
>> can’t anyone have the offer regardless?
>
> The card is free, why can't everyone get one?

Everything on promotion is stuff they cant get shot of, whether it’s Tesco
or the manufacturer, or needs promoting because people aren’t naturally
buying it. They don’t do it out of kindness.

No reason, but many of us can’t be bothered. If you aren’t a regular Tesco
shopper the 1% or so that you lose in points isn’t worth it.

In message <mqg+57QzcjuhFAJW@perry.uk>, at 18:42:59 on Wed, 15 Dec 2021,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>In message <spdcmj$e3r$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:11 on Wed, 15 Dec
>2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>
>>>> I don't find the concept of 'email a pdf to be shown on my phone' to be in
>>>> any way unique to TOCs.
>>>
>>> I've not encountered it when buying from Screwfix,
>>
>>No, you get emailed an 11-digit code and present that with ID to a human;
>>presumably if they did automated pick-up points you'd get a barcode.
>
>I'm never asked for ID, and all they want is a verbal 4-last digits,
>which you write down from the screen at the end of the order.

Or today, not so much. The whole industrial park that they are situated
on has a telecoms outage, so they are unable to operate their IT
systems.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spf5hb$d12$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:48:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spf40d$3gq$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:22:05 on Thu, 16 Dec
>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <speqeg$9tu$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:38:56 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spddmo$lj8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:55:20 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <spdc4j$a5i$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:36 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <spd34h$vag$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
>>>>>>>>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 15/12/2021 15:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <spavjo$qqm$10@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:33 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tesco's latest scam, which I'm now wise to after being stung twice
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1], is to have what looks like a meal deal or 3-for-£1.50
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is actually for clubcard holders only.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Surely you have a Tesco Loyalty card on your phone? [I
>>>>>>>>>>>>know they exist, because my wife went to Tesco six months
>>>>>>>>>>>>ago and forgot to take her plastic card, so we spent an
>>>>>>>>>>>>interesting fifteen minutes getting a work-alike pushed to her phone].
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the so-called "scam", those offers have quite distinctive
>>>>>>>>>>>> yellow labelling.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is that what they are? I don't go to Tesco often enough to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's quite a new promotion I think. Less than a year.
>>>>>>>>>>Although I think
>>>>>>>>>> they might have trialled it on a few items not in a combined deal,
>>>>>>>>>> slightly earlier.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>><https://digitalcontent.api.tesco.com/v2/media/ghs-mktg/4085b51c-fc3d-
>>>>>>>>>> 4ea0-9893-4a00a89e4beb/CCP-GHS-743x430-Tag.jpeg>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Of course it’s a scam. Applied to things where you don’t
>>>>>>>>>actually know the true price off hand. Like a bottle of port I
>>>>>>>>>purchased. Mark as £15 and then sell at £10 club card price.
>>>>>>>>>Clearly the £15 was made up to make suckers think they are
>>>>>>>>>special and getting a bargain at £10. look - I saved £5, aren’t Tesco really cheap.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All the things I've bought on the promotion were genuinely cheaper.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They would have been cheaper anyway - there’s no reason why waving
>>>>>>> bit of plastic (possibly virtual) should make goods cheaper.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's variously called a "loss leader", or a "promotional item". And it's
>>>>>> trivial to compare the prices with those of the same product on a
>>>>>> different shelf (there almost always is, somewhere else in the store) or
>>>>>> what one remembers the "street price" is, from previous purchases or
>>>>>> other stores.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You miss my point - the promotional item shouldn’t depend on
>>>>> waving a loyalty card. I don’t mind them promoting an item to
>>>>> increase footfall, but limiting it to loyalty card holders is
>>>>> manipulation.
>>>>
>>>> Do you think the vouchers issued at tills for special discounts on
>>>> specific items, or the ones they send through the post for specific
>>>> discounts, are manipulation too?
>>>>
>>>> I've got one here: "Save £1 on Alpro coconut yoghurt". Can't get much
>>>> more specific than that. Although I also have a "£5 off selected
>>>> Homeware", which has a long list - and excludes Christmas Decorations.
>>>> Bah Humbug.
>>>
>>> Well yes and no. If the till coupons are for stuff they need to get shot
>>> of, then no
>>
>> They never need to "get shot" of stuff in bulk like that. It's a
>> promotion, and quite likely specially bought-in stock, that's probably
>> on sale-or-return.
>>
>>> - that’s just drawing attention to the offer. It’s the you’re a
>>> club card holder and you get something others don’t is what I object to.
>>
>> Which is exactly what the till and mailed vouchers are!!
>>
>>> It’s not like, say an airline card where you get more perks for spending
>>> more. Here it’s just a card that anyone can have, and on that basis why
>>> can’t anyone have the offer regardless?
>>
>> The card is free, why can't everyone get one?
>
>Everything on promotion is stuff they cant get shot of, whether it’s Tesco
>or the manufacturer, or needs promoting because people aren’t naturally
>buying it.

You are confusing 'clearance' and 'promotions. I've already explained
the latter.

>They don’t do it out of kindness.

They do it because they are experienced retailers who know how to
increase their turnover, and hence profits. In the retail trade their
loyalty card programme is regarded as one of the most spectacular
marketing successes for a generation.

>No reason, but many of us can’t be bothered.

Slight double standard here - there's been an insistence in the wind
here the last week or so, that it's ridiculous that people might not be
bothered to set up special email addresses for buying railway tickets.

And you can put the Tesco card on that phone you are joined at the hip
to, so it's not a case of having one more thing to carry around.

>If you aren’t a regular Tesco shopper the 1% or so that you lose in
>points isn’t worth it.

But you are losing offers, too.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sp0aqe$pee$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:46:23 on Fri, 10 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <soqdtf$1pj$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:02:22 on Wed, 8 Dec 2021,
>>> Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> My point is that "the Basics" should not include being compelled to
>>>>> set up special email accounts and to carry a smartphone, and buy
>>>>> tickets in a rush in the rain stood in the station car park, just to
>>>>> avoid a £100 fine if the TOC can't be bothered to keep their ticket
>>>>> machines working.
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Are there any cases of a penalty fare being successfully extracted, or
>>>> even demanded, when there was no way to buy a ticket without carrying a
>>>> smartphone? If not then just buy a paper ticket,
>>>
>>> The TVM is broken dear Liza.
>>>
>>>> or travel without one if that is impossible.
>>>
>>> And risk the fine. There should be some middle course available, or at
>>> least some rather less hectoring signage saying "it's OK, if the
>>> machines are broken we promise you won't be fined".
>>
>> So your contention that the TOC will fine you £100 pounds if you dare to
>> get on the train when the TVM is broken is based entirely on the wording of
>> the penalty fare notice? Genuine question, though I think analogous ones
>> have been asked in other branches of the thread.
>
> It's what the signs say, and my basic contention here is that they
> should have at least a glimmer of an "unless..."

OK, so all this fulmination about phones, TVMs and umbrellas is really just
because the notice is (probably) badly worded?

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
> Make every day bright with the new Amstrad umbrella with built-in torch!

:-)

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spcs1d$dru$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:53:49 on Wed, 15 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <4KF5hmunlMuhFAZN@perry.uk>, at 16:42:15 on Tue, 14 Dec 2021,
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>>> I keep meaning to study the BBC Breakfast (etc) clocks in more
>>>>>>>> detail to see how far off they are, especially as one of their Covid
>>>>>>>> geeks has a digital clock on the wall behind him. I have two adjacent
>>>>>>>> TVs, one on Freesat, the other on Freeview, and they are about two
>>>>>>>> seconds apart.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One has the signal travelling a lot further than the other. Add in he
>>>>>>> digital delays on each tx chain (and rx chain) and you are going to get
>>>>>>> noticeable variations between nominally the same stations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't superficially explain why the terrestrial version is lagging
>>>>>> the satellite (although the explanation has to be the terrestrial
>>>>>> transmitter is getting a satellite feed, and is adding in a decode/
>>>>>> recode delay). It's about two seconds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are they the same model of TV/decoder? Do they have a PVR function that
>>>>> might be intercepting the signal before displaying it? I’m not familiar
>>>>> with digital TV or audio broadcasting but I do just about enough about
>>>>> media streaming to be dangerous.
>>>>
>>>> Different brands, and it's the satellite one which has the PVR function
>>>> built in (but annoyingly, requires an external USB HDD, and won't
>>>> recognise an external thumb drive[1]). But I do have a "separates"
>>>> Freeview PVR plugged into the terrestrial one, so later I'll see what
>>>> the timings are on that, compared to the Freesat.
>>>
>>> Exactly the same amount of delay. Two seconds (or however long it takes
>>> the announcer to say "and on BBC iPlayer").
>>>
>>> That's a helpful thing to measure because they always pause after that.
>>>
>>> So the satellite TV goes "blah blah blah trailer crap crap crap
>>> available live and on BBC iPlayer [silence]", and the terrestrial TV
>>> echoes over the silence "and on BBC iPlayer".
>>
>> Slight diversion: on the occasions when there is a clock on screen, if it’s
>> showing seconds how far are they away from GMT/UTC/whathaveyou?
>
> Haven't got to that yet, not least because they are usually reluctant to
> show clocks with seconds on them.
>
> But the dum-di-dum-di-pling-plog <lets fill in a routine minute-long
> pregnant pause waiting for the top of the hour> dum-di-dum-di-pling-plog
> screen, on whatever BBC 24hrs is called this week, does have a seconds
> countdown.
>
> But it's actually difficult to closely *watch* screens in two different
> rooms at the same time, whereas I *can* listen to two sets of sound.

I wasn’t thinking you might watch them both, but compare each to, say, the
time on your phone or a portable computing device. The device’s clock is
likely to be synchonised with NTP or some similar protocol, and thus be
pretty close to UTC.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <spfb9c$n3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:26:20 on Thu, 16 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sp0aqe$pee$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:46:23 on Fri, 10 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <soqdtf$1pj$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:02:22 on Wed, 8 Dec 2021,
>>>> Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> My point is that "the Basics" should not include being compelled to
>>>>>> set up special email accounts and to carry a smartphone, and buy
>>>>>> tickets in a rush in the rain stood in the station car park, just to
>>>>>> avoid a £100 fine if the TOC can't be bothered to keep their ticket
>>>>>> machines working.
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> Are there any cases of a penalty fare being successfully extracted, or
>>>>> even demanded, when there was no way to buy a ticket without carrying a
>>>>> smartphone? If not then just buy a paper ticket,
>>>>
>>>> The TVM is broken dear Liza.
>>>>
>>>>> or travel without one if that is impossible.
>>>>
>>>> And risk the fine. There should be some middle course available, or at
>>>> least some rather less hectoring signage saying "it's OK, if the
>>>> machines are broken we promise you won't be fined".
>>>
>>> So your contention that the TOC will fine you £100 pounds if you dare to
>>> get on the train when the TVM is broken is based entirely on the wording of
>>> the penalty fare notice? Genuine question, though I think analogous ones
>>> have been asked in other branches of the thread.
>>
>> It's what the signs say, and my basic contention here is that they
>> should have at least a glimmer of an "unless..."
>
>OK, so all this fulmination about phones, TVMs and umbrellas is really just
>because the notice is (probably) badly worded?

It's mainly because my initial remarks about the need for the TOCs to
clean up their act before introducing the new penalties (part of which
would indeed be improvements to the signage) were largely ignored due to
the dogpiling about why broken TVMs shouldn't matter because mobile
phone tickets were a convenient substitute.

Most of the rest of the thread has been about whether they are in fact,
just as convenient (especially in the circumstances of people who were
initially expecting to find a working TVM).
--
Roland Perry

In message <spfbkl$pf8$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:32:21 on Thu, 16 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <spcs1d$dru$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:53:49 on Wed, 15 Dec
>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <4KF5hmunlMuhFAZN@perry.uk>, at 16:42:15 on Tue, 14 Dec 2021,
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I keep meaning to study the BBC Breakfast (etc) clocks in more
>>>>>>>>> detail to see how far off they are, especially as one of their Covid
>>>>>>>>> geeks has a digital clock on the wall behind him. I have two adjacent
>>>>>>>>> TVs, one on Freesat, the other on Freeview, and they are about two
>>>>>>>>> seconds apart.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One has the signal travelling a lot further than the other. Add in he
>>>>>>>> digital delays on each tx chain (and rx chain) and you are going to get
>>>>>>>> noticeable variations between nominally the same stations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't superficially explain why the terrestrial version is lagging
>>>>>>> the satellite (although the explanation has to be the terrestrial
>>>>>>> transmitter is getting a satellite feed, and is adding in a decode/
>>>>>>> recode delay). It's about two seconds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are they the same model of TV/decoder? Do they have a PVR function that
>>>>>> might be intercepting the signal before displaying it? I’m not
>>>>>>familiar
>>>>>> with digital TV or audio broadcasting but I do just about enough about
>>>>>> media streaming to be dangerous.
>>>>>
>>>>> Different brands, and it's the satellite one which has the PVR function
>>>>> built in (but annoyingly, requires an external USB HDD, and won't
>>>>> recognise an external thumb drive[1]). But I do have a "separates"
>>>>> Freeview PVR plugged into the terrestrial one, so later I'll see what
>>>>> the timings are on that, compared to the Freesat.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly the same amount of delay. Two seconds (or however long it takes
>>>> the announcer to say "and on BBC iPlayer").
>>>>
>>>> That's a helpful thing to measure because they always pause after that.
>>>>
>>>> So the satellite TV goes "blah blah blah trailer crap crap crap
>>>> available live and on BBC iPlayer [silence]", and the terrestrial TV
>>>> echoes over the silence "and on BBC iPlayer".
>>>
>>> Slight diversion: on the occasions when there is a clock on screen,
>>>if it’s
>>> showing seconds how far are they away from GMT/UTC/whathaveyou?
>>
>> Haven't got to that yet, not least because they are usually reluctant to
>> show clocks with seconds on them.
>>
>> But the dum-di-dum-di-pling-plog <lets fill in a routine minute-long
>> pregnant pause waiting for the top of the hour> dum-di-dum-di-pling-plog
>> screen, on whatever BBC 24hrs is called this week, does have a seconds
>> countdown.
>>
>> But it's actually difficult to closely *watch* screens in two different
>> rooms at the same time, whereas I *can* listen to two sets of sound.
>
>I wasn’t thinking you might watch them both, but compare each to, say, the
>time on your phone or a portable computing device. The device’s clock is
>likely to be synchonised with NTP or some similar protocol, and thus be
>pretty close to UTC.

I agree the phone time will be accurate, but with the time on the TV
only clicking over in minutes, that means constantly looking back and
forth between those two, while also expecting to be able to count the
interval to at least as good as 0.5 secs.

I suspect what it's going to need is putting a digital time display in
front of the TV, filming the pair, and then watching it afterwards.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spavjm$qqm$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:30 on Tue, 14 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>
>>>>> Even using a specific email address for ticket providers is not viable
>>>>> as I'm illegally on two email lists neither of which provide the
>>>>> legally required link to remove myself for the same.
>>>>
>>>> Of course it is viable, how long does it take to set up a specific email
>>>> address for the purpose?
>>>
>>> Not long. But it becomes usable when the junk email builds up.
>>
>> tickets2020@…
>> tickets2021@…
>> tickets2022@…
>
> And thus you continue to twist the knife, appeasing vendors who
> externalise so much of the transactional admin to their customers.
>

I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones, I'm merely
suggesting solutions to the problems you keep coming up with in answer to
previously suggested solutions…

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spd1do$lcr$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:25:44 on Wed, 15 Dec
> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spavjm$qqm$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:30 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>> Even using a specific email address for ticket providers is not viable
>>>>>>> as I'm illegally on two email lists neither of which provide the
>>>>>>> legally required link to remove myself for the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course it is viable, how long does it take to set up a specific email
>>>>>> address for the purpose?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not long. But it becomes usable when the junk email builds up.
>>>>
>>>> tickets2020@…
>>>> tickets2021@…
>>>> tickets2022@…
>>>
>>> And thus you continue to twist the knife, appeasing vendors who
>>> externalise so much of the transactional admin to their customers.
>>
>> I think we need to give up. Roland appears to live in a parallel world to
>> the rest of us.
>
> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you think set
> up special email addresses for different online purchases?

I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
unnecessary…

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spdcmj$e3r$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:11 on Wed, 15 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>
>>>> I don't find the concept of 'email a pdf to be shown on my phone' to be in
>>>> any way unique to TOCs.
>>>
>>> I've not encountered it when buying from Screwfix,
>>
>> No, you get emailed an 11-digit code and present that with ID to a human;
>> presumably if they did automated pick-up points you'd get a barcode.
>
> I'm never asked for ID,

By the Ts&Cs they're supposed to ask for ID, but I agree that they rarely
do (I usually have it ready just in case, or show it when giving my order
number).

> and all they want is a verbal 4-last digits,
> which you write down from the screen at the end of the order.
>

That involves having a pen and paper handy; having the email open on my
phone is *far* easier ;)

Occasionally if they can't find your order from the last four digits they
might perhaps ask for the full code [1]; presumably you'd have to drive
home to write the rest on your piece of paper? ;)

[1] looking back through my recent orders, the numbers appear to be
sequential, and increment at the rate of around 23,000 per hour.

Anna Noyd-Dryver