On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 6:08:48 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 16:56:38 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >I guess the question is "what is pornography". After all farm kids
> >learn all about why mammals have babies at very early ages and in most
> >cases children in families with more then one child usually learn what
> >the other sex looks like and why little girls squat to pee and little
> >boys do it standing up pretty early on.

> Seriously? You don't know what pornography is?

He isn't alone:

" I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that" - United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart describing his threshold test for obscenity in Jacobellis v. Ohio.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-LB-4558

It's clearly subjective.

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 4:13:22 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:03:59 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:59:29 -0400, Catrike Rider
> ><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >
> >>On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 11:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> >><frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>An author in Forbes doesn't like bike lanes. I generally agree.
> >>>
> >>>https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianafurchtgott-roth/2022/09/08/bike-lanes-dont-make-cycling-safe/?sh=534453f74ca8
> >>>
> >>>- Frank Krygowski
> >>
> >>Nothing can make bicycling among truck and car traffic safe. I very
> >>seldom do it anymore.
> >
> >By gorry you are right. So, logically, to make cycling really safe
> >riding on public roads and highways must be banned!
> You do what you're comfortable with, I'll do the same. I'm not a fan
> of banning something simply because someone thinks it's not safe.
> Neither do I want others to decide what's in my best interest...
>
> Let freedom ring

Slocum with his usual big mouth fails to mention that he doesn't ride bikes.

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 4:45:57 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > An author in Forbes doesn't like bike lanes. I generally agree.
> >
> > https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianafurchtgott-roth/2022/09/08/bike-lanes-dont-make-cycling-safe/?sh=534453f74ca8
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> It’s opinion dressed up as facts, for example cycle lanes most certainly
> can be built with out having traffic turning across it, Westminster to the
> The Tower in london is one.
>
> And if it is, can be light etc controlled CS9 which is a new segregated
> lane from Kew Bridge to Hammersmith does that, does mean you end up like
> cars waiting at lights etc, but certainly no slower than the road.

I am not a great fan of bike trails. They end up packed with pedestrians and dog walkers who think that bikes are in their way. Bike lanes on a street work very well.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 2:01:08 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 15:41:26 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 04:23:25 -0400, Catrike Rider
> ><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >
> >>On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:25:58 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:13:18 -0400, Catrike Rider
> >>><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:03:59 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:59:29 -0400, Catrike Rider
> >>>>><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 11:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>><frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>An author in Forbes doesn't like bike lanes. I generally agree.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianafurchtgott-roth/2022/09/08/bike-lanes-dont-make-cycling-safe/?sh=534453f74ca8
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>- Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Nothing can make bicycling among truck and car traffic safe. I very
> >>>>>>seldom do it anymore.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>By gorry you are right. So, logically, to make cycling really safe
> >>>>>riding on public roads and highways must be banned!
> >>>>
> >>>>You do what you're comfortable with, I'll do the same. I'm not a fan
> >>>>of banning something simply because someone thinks it's not safe.
> >>>>Neither do I want others to decide what's in my best interest...
> >>>>
> >>>>Let freedom ring
> >>>
> >>>I've ridden for 20 years, or so, entirely in countries that did not
> >>>have "bike lanes" with no problems at all.
> >>>
> >>>As for banning things because they are thought to be unsafe... Well,
> >>>traffic laws come to mind.
> >>
> >>That's more a case where almost everybody thinks it's unsafe
> >>
> >>> In fact I read that even books are banned
> >>>in the U.S.
> >>>https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/30/books/book-ban-us-schools.html
> >>
> >>So do you really think it's OK for school libraries to have
> >>pornography?
> >
> >If a book is "legal" in a society then it should be "legal" in schools
> >in that society.
> Do you have any children? If so, how young were they when you thought
> it was ok for them to have access to pornography?
Again, Slocum allows his dementia to spill over more and more into this group. He has no children and only married a Thai woman so that he would have a free housekeeper.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:55:42 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:

> That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
> are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
> That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

Speaking of prejudice ... Geezz you hit a new low.

Lou

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 9:36:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:55:42 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> > That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
> > are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
> > That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> Speaking of prejudice ... Geezz you hit a new low.

Frank lives in the middle of nowhere and hence never sees very heavy traffic. He can't even imagine traffic like most of the rest of bike riders see. On my rude on a road in the middle of nowhere that really has no interesting destination, I was still passed by around 100 cars with out of sight gasoline prices on a Sunday.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:59:57 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:23:34 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:55:40 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
>> >are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
>> >That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
>> >
>> >- Frank Krygowski
>> Boring? My bike path rides go through the country. I see lots of
>> wildlife and natural wonders. I've seen many snakes, gators, deer,
>> coyotes, a bear, wild pigs, squirrels, many different kinds of birds,
>> herons, hawks, an occasional frigate bird.
>
>That's fine if it satisfies you. I prefer access to the entire countryside, rather than being confined
>to the same out-and-back rides on bike trails.
>
>> BY the way, I grew up and spent many hours riding on roads, so I have
>> all the courage and experience I need. Probably more than you.
>
>OK, tell us your biking experience, please. (And drop the 3rd grader insults.)

<CHUCKLE> That's from the guy who suggested that I didn't ride in bike
lanes because I wasn't courageous or experienced enough... all
because, I assume because I shredded his Trump political post and he
couldn't come up witha response..

>How much recreational riding have you done on roads? How many years commuting to work
>by bike on normal roads? How much other utility riding have you done on ordinary roads?
>How much overnight or longer traveling have you done on normal
>roads? How much bike camping? How many U.S. states have you ridden in? How many
>foreign countries? How many century rides have you done? How many rides longer than
>100 miles in one day? How many times have you organized and led friends on road rides?
>How many times have you organized and run multi-hundred rider event rides on normal roads?

<LOL> Organizing group rides and camping add nothing to anyone's
biking courage and experience.

>Answer in detail, please. That will allow us to gauge whether your courage and experience
>really are more than mine.

<SNORT> I'm not the least bit interested in your, or anyone else's
evaluation of my "courage and experience, nor am I interested in you
beyond my current evaluation of you as a loudmouth blowhard.

>- Frank Krygowski

Why is it that leftist loons are always so eager to get at other's
personal information?

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 08:17:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 4:45:57 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > An author in Forbes doesn't like bike lanes. I generally agree.
>> >
>> > https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianafurchtgott-roth/2022/09/08/bike-lanes-dont-make-cycling-safe/?sh=534453f74ca8
>> >
>> > - Frank Krygowski
>> >
>> It’s opinion dressed up as facts, for example cycle lanes most certainly
>> can be built with out having traffic turning across it, Westminster to the
>> The Tower in london is one.
>>
>> And if it is, can be light etc controlled CS9 which is a new segregated
>> lane from Kew Bridge to Hammersmith does that, does mean you end up like
>> cars waiting at lights etc, but certainly no slower than the road.
>
>I am not a great fan of bike trails. They end up packed with pedestrians and dog walkers who think that bikes are in their way. Bike lanes on a street work very well.

Bike trails in the city and suburbs may be crowded. I know of a few
that are, but I stay away from them. On most of the trails I ride I
seldom see walkers and often ride the whole 20 miles up and twenty
miles nack with only seeing a dozen or so other riders.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 09:36:33 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
<lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:55:42 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
>> are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
>> That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
>Speaking of prejudice ... Geezz you hit a new low.
>
>Lou

Frank is angry at me for shredding his political rhetoric. It's OK.
I've got big shoulders.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 13:30:40 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:59:57 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:23:34 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:55:40 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
>>> >are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
>>> >That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
>>> >
>>> >- Frank Krygowski
>>> Boring? My bike path rides go through the country. I see lots of
>>> wildlife and natural wonders. I've seen many snakes, gators, deer,
>>> coyotes, a bear, wild pigs, squirrels, many different kinds of birds,
>>> herons, hawks, an occasional frigate bird.
>>
>>That's fine if it satisfies you. I prefer access to the entire countryside, rather than being confined
>>to the same out-and-back rides on bike trails.
>>
>>> BY the way, I grew up and spent many hours riding on roads, so I have
>>> all the courage and experience I need. Probably more than you.
>>
>>OK, tell us your biking experience, please. (And drop the 3rd grader insults.)
>
><CHUCKLE> That's from the guy who suggested that I didn't ride in bike
>lanes because I wasn't courageous or experienced enough... all
>because, I assume because I shredded his Trump political post and he
>couldn't come up witha response..
>
>>How much recreational riding have you done on roads? How many years commuting to work
>>by bike on normal roads? How much other utility riding have you done on ordinary roads?
>>How much overnight or longer traveling have you done on normal
>>roads? How much bike camping? How many U.S. states have you ridden in? How many
>>foreign countries? How many century rides have you done? How many rides longer than
>>100 miles in one day? How many times have you organized and led friends on road rides?
>>How many times have you organized and run multi-hundred rider event rides on normal roads?
>
>
><LOL> Organizing group rides and camping add nothing to anyone's
>biking courage and experience.

By the way, I really dislike the group ride organizers who convince a
bunch of follow-the-leader group thinkers to run along beside each
other so they can gossip and not bother watching where they are going.
I expect the organizers imagine themselves as leaders of some sort.
People who thirst for the attention they get while leading the pack.

>>Answer in detail, please. That will allow us to gauge whether your courage and experience
>>really are more than mine.
>
><SNORT> I'm not the least bit interested in your, or anyone else's
>evaluation of my "courage and experience, nor am I interested in you
>beyond my current evaluation of you as a loudmouth blowhard.
>
>>- Frank Krygowski
>
>Why is it that leftist loons are always so eager to get at other's
>personal information?

On 9/12/2022 9:36 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:55:42 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
>> are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
>> That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Speaking of prejudice ... Geezz you hit a new low.

It's classic "vehicular cycling" speak. No inexperienced cyclists should
be on two wheels. Children should never learn how to ride in a safe
environment.

Yesterday we did a ride from my daughter's house in Albany, CA. We
reached the end of her street and there was a car that had hit a cyclist
in an area that lacked a protected bike lane. He was alive, the bicycle
was destroyed, and the car had front end damage. The police were there
but an ambulance had not yet arrived. After two blocks we were on MUPs
for the rest of the ride to the Rosie the Riveter National Historical Park.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 12:05:10 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 9/12/2022 9:36 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:55:42 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>> That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
>>> are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
>>> That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> Speaking of prejudice ... Geezz you hit a new low.
>
>It's classic "vehicular cycling" speak. No inexperienced cyclists should
>be on two wheels. Children should never learn how to ride in a safe
>environment.
>
>Yesterday we did a ride from my daughter's house in Albany, CA. We
>reached the end of her street and there was a car that had hit a cyclist
>in an area that lacked a protected bike lane. He was alive, the bicycle
>was destroyed, and the car had front end damage. The police were there
>but an ambulance had not yet arrived. After two blocks we were on MUPs
>for the rest of the ride to the Rosie the Riveter National Historical Park.
>
>
>

I never understood the "you must do as I do or I hate you" attidude.
I'm a "do what you want as long as you don't interfere with others
doing what they want" kind of guy.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:56:35 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 9:36:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:55:42 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > > That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
> > > are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
> > > That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
> > >
> > > - Frank Krygowski
> > Speaking of prejudice ... Geezz you hit a new low.

Sorry it offends you, Lou, but there are many people who lack the competence to ride anywhere but
a bike path. There are many people who are afraid to ride even on quiet streets. I've met both types.
As I said, they're free to continue doing that. I don't have to admire that timidity.

> Frank lives in the middle of nowhere and hence never sees very heavy traffic. He can't even imagine traffic like most of the rest of bike riders see.

Let's see: I've ridden Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC, Pittsburgh, Charlotte NC, Jacksonville FL, Cleveland, Akron, Columbus, Cincinnati, Nashville, Atlanta, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Los Angeles, San
Francisco, Portland, Toronto, Paris, Dublin, Amsterdam... How long of a list do you need?

- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:30:42 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:59:57 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:23:34 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:55:40 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
> >> >are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
> >> >That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
> >> >
> >> >- Frank Krygowski
> >> Boring? My bike path rides go through the country. I see lots of
> >> wildlife and natural wonders. I've seen many snakes, gators, deer,
> >> coyotes, a bear, wild pigs, squirrels, many different kinds of birds,
> >> herons, hawks, an occasional frigate bird.
> >
> >That's fine if it satisfies you. I prefer access to the entire countryside, rather than being confined
> >to the same out-and-back rides on bike trails.
> >
> >> BY the way, I grew up and spent many hours riding on roads, so I have
> >> all the courage and experience I need. Probably more than you.
> >
> >OK, tell us your biking experience, please. (And drop the 3rd grader insults.)
> <CHUCKLE> That's from the guy who suggested that I didn't ride in bike
> lanes because I wasn't courageous or experienced enough... all
> because, I assume because I shredded his Trump political post and he
> couldn't come up witha response..

Bad assumption.

> >How much recreational riding have you done on roads? How many years commuting to work
> >by bike on normal roads? How much other utility riding have you done on ordinary roads?
> >How much overnight or longer traveling have you done on normal
> >roads? How much bike camping? How many U.S. states have you ridden in? How many
> >foreign countries? How many century rides have you done? How many rides longer than
> >100 miles in one day? How many times have you organized and led friends on road rides?
> >How many times have you organized and run multi-hundred rider event rides on normal roads?
> <LOL> Organizing group rides and camping add nothing to anyone's
> biking courage and experience.

If you had done bike camping, you would know you are wrong. And organizing a multi-hundred
rider event certainly does require experience and knowledge about cycling.

> >Answer in detail, please. That will allow us to gauge whether your courage and experience
> >really are more than mine.
> <SNORT> I'm not the least bit interested in your, or anyone else's
> evaluation of my "courage and experience...

Gosh, a day ago you were guessing you knew as much as I do!

I will concede, you probably know more than I do about one aspect of cycling: hauling a tricycle
around in a pickup truck and unloading it to ride back and forth on a bike path. But your lack of
detailed response is adequate proof you know much less than I do about cycling.

Again, perhaps that's fine for you. Do whatever it takes to keep yourself moving. But don't pretend to
any real expertise regarding cycling.

- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:05:16 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
>
> It's classic "vehicular cycling" speak. No inexperienced cyclists should
> be on two wheels. Children should never learn how to ride in a safe
> environment.

You could try discussing what I've actually said, rather than imagining positions
you'd prefer to disagree with.

But your "safe environment" is defined how? Are you, too, going to pretend "safe" is
a binary condition?

As I've mentioned, Columbus Ohio installed about a mile of "nice safe protected cycletrack"
and saw a thirteen-fold increase in the number of car-bike crashes. Does that cycletrack
qualify as "safe" in your book? If so, why?

Here's one of those crashes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k6-AI_X1qE

Some protection!

- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:30:42 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:59:57 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:23:34 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:55:40 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
> >> >are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
> >> >That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state.. Although I hope not.
> >> >
> >> >- Frank Krygowski
> >> Boring? My bike path rides go through the country. I see lots of
> >> wildlife and natural wonders. I've seen many snakes, gators, deer,
> >> coyotes, a bear, wild pigs, squirrels, many different kinds of birds,
> >> herons, hawks, an occasional frigate bird.
> >
> >That's fine if it satisfies you. I prefer access to the entire countryside, rather than being confined
> >to the same out-and-back rides on bike trails.
> >
> >> BY the way, I grew up and spent many hours riding on roads, so I have
> >> all the courage and experience I need. Probably more than you.
> >
> >OK, tell us your biking experience, please. (And drop the 3rd grader insults.)
> <CHUCKLE> That's from the guy who suggested that I didn't ride in bike
> lanes because I wasn't courageous or experienced enough... all
> because, I assume because I shredded his Trump political post and he
> couldn't come up witha response..

Franks a bit of a curmudgeon here, but at the end of the day he's one of the more worthy individuals to have technical discussion with unlike certain other individuals that claim to be in the upper echelon of cycling technology but can't figure out a fucking quick link (https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/7oGPAc0MWIA/m/Z4vNkmV1BgAJ). As far as your alleged political debating prowess, he might have sensed you gravitating toward the RBT magatard side of the spectrum along with andre the useless - who continues to use this forum as nothing but his own personal political toilet - and RBT's own Walter Mitty (aka tommy the liar) - who has come up with such gems as 'there was no recession before obama took office' and 'i couldn't figure out why my bike wouldn't shift until I bought the special campy non-stretch shifting cables' (the list is nearly endless) - I think it's far more likely frank would rather disengage than perform an exercise akin to wrestling with a pig.*

> >How much recreational riding have you done on roads? How many years commuting to work
> >by bike on normal roads? How much other utility riding have you done on ordinary roads?
> >How much overnight or longer traveling have you done on normal
> >roads? How much bike camping? How many U.S. states have you ridden in? How many
> >foreign countries? How many century rides have you done? How many rides longer than
> >100 miles in one day? How many times have you organized and led friends on road rides?
> >How many times have you organized and run multi-hundred rider event rides on normal roads?
>
> <LOL> Organizing group rides and camping add nothing to anyone's
> biking courage and experience.

Clearly you've never done either. They both do, and quite dramatically. Such activities contribute _greatly_ to ones cycling acumen. If someone wanted to talk to me about handling or repairing a bike under difficult conditions, I would certainly pay more attention to an experienced bike-packer than someone who rides a three-wheeler on a paved bike path. I have a great deal of respect for someone who can ride for a hundred miles in hilly terrain on a touring bike loaded with camping gear, especially in inclement weather.. That's not to imply that I _don't_ respect the bike-path-trike-rider, I respect anyone who gets out on an HPV, but to claim that bikepacking and organizing events "adds nothing" is completely wrong.

Organizing group rides takes an understanding of the audience and the goals. Picking courses, setting up rest stops, sometimes mobile support and coordinating/enforcing marshals at busy intersections and first responders all take an understanding of the activity of cycling in general and each event adds to experienced gained in the sport. Take it a step further and promote USAC races - which I have a great deal of experience in. The difficulties increase by an order of magnitude when dealing with USAC officials, scoring, and the more-than-occasional 32-year-old cat 5 wannbe puke that threatens to sue (and even physical violence) because he got scored second for the $5 prize in the half-way prime. It's called "giving back". You should try it sometime. I have little respect for people who show up at these events and denigrate the volunteer standing on a remote corner of the course wearing an orange vest.

> >Answer in detail, please. That will allow us to gauge whether your courage and experience
> >really are more than mine.
> <SNORT> I'm not the least bit interested in your, or anyone else's
> evaluation of my "courage and experience, nor am I interested in you
> beyond my current evaluation of you as a loudmouth blowhard.
>
> >- Frank Krygowski
>
> Why is it that leftist loons are always so eager to get at other's
> personal information?

Very clearly, you haven't been paying much attention to tom and andre. They are the only ones here who demanded that I tell them what I do for a living, if I'm married (they both have some sort of bizarre homoerotic fantasy about me), how many kids I have, how old I am - no one else here has made any such demands. So this hypothetical of yours that 'only leftist loons' seem to do it is very clearly proven wrong in this forum, by the two loudest and most arrogant right-wingers we have.

I also notice you post under an anonymous handle. I don't care, the vast majority here don't. The exceptions are - you guessed it - tom and andre. They both regularly criticize me for posting anonymously. "The anonymous coward zencycle" is one of their favorites, claiming that anyone posting anonymously is a coward and unworthy of human dignity. Tommy likes to follow it up with threats of violence. He regularly threatens to 'cave [enter name here] skull in', 'break [enter name here] legs'. Of course I'm guessing their hypocrisy will be on full display in your case, since you've already noted at least sympathy (if not outright support) for trump. *

BTW - Very few bicycle-related discussion gets started in this forum without one of those two turning it into a personal attack within the first few responses. Here are a couple of recent classic examples:

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/tuLzyUUoN6c/m/_Qz5o5VAAAAJ
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/IFISJQJ6voU/m/vNGasPEpBgAJ
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/qfAQlQyDvJQ/m/LT0zABlKBgAJ
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/7oGPAc0MWIA/m/-0vf-tuaAQAJ

* I haven't read any of your political contributions, and I don't _intend_ to.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 12:51:45 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:30:42 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:59:57 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:23:34 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:55:40 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> >> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
>> >> >are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
>> >> >That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
>> >> >
>> >> >- Frank Krygowski
>> >> Boring? My bike path rides go through the country. I see lots of
>> >> wildlife and natural wonders. I've seen many snakes, gators, deer,
>> >> coyotes, a bear, wild pigs, squirrels, many different kinds of birds,
>> >> herons, hawks, an occasional frigate bird.
>> >
>> >That's fine if it satisfies you. I prefer access to the entire countryside, rather than being confined
>> >to the same out-and-back rides on bike trails.
>> >
>> >> BY the way, I grew up and spent many hours riding on roads, so I have
>> >> all the courage and experience I need. Probably more than you.
>> >
>> >OK, tell us your biking experience, please. (And drop the 3rd grader insults.)
>> <CHUCKLE> That's from the guy who suggested that I didn't ride in bike
>> lanes because I wasn't courageous or experienced enough... all
>> because, I assume because I shredded his Trump political post and he
>> couldn't come up witha response..
>
>Franks a bit of a curmudgeon here, but at the end of the day he's one of the more worthy individuals to have technical discussion with unlike certain other individuals that claim to be in the upper echelon of cycling technology but can't figure out a fucking quick link (https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/7oGPAc0MWIA/m/Z4vNkmV1BgAJ). As far as your alleged political debating prowess, he might have sensed you gravitating toward the RBT magatard side of the spectrum along with andre the useless - who continues to use this forum as nothing but his own personal political toilet - and RBT's own Walter Mitty (aka tommy the liar) - who has come up with such gems as 'there was no recession before obama took office' and 'i couldn't figure out why my bike wouldn't shift until I bought the special campy non-stretch shifting cables' (the list is nearly endless) - I think it's far more likely frank would rather disengage than perform an exercise akin to wrestling with a pig.*
>
>> >How much recreational riding have you done on roads? How many years commuting to work
>> >by bike on normal roads? How much other utility riding have you done on ordinary roads?
>> >How much overnight or longer traveling have you done on normal
>> >roads? How much bike camping? How many U.S. states have you ridden in? How many
>> >foreign countries? How many century rides have you done? How many rides longer than
>> >100 miles in one day? How many times have you organized and led friends on road rides?
>> >How many times have you organized and run multi-hundred rider event rides on normal roads?
>>
>> <LOL> Organizing group rides and camping add nothing to anyone's
>> biking courage and experience.
>
>Clearly you've never done either.

Clearly you don't have a clue.

> They both do, and quite dramatically. Such activities contribute _greatly_ to ones cycling acumen. If someone wanted to talk to me about handling or repairing a bike under difficult conditions, I would certainly pay more attention to an experienced bike-packer than someone who rides a three-wheeler on a paved bike path. I have a great deal of respect for someone who can ride for a hundred miles in hilly terrain on a touring bike loaded with camping gear, especially in inclement weather. That's not to imply that I _don't_ respect the bike-path-trike-rider, I respect anyone who gets out on an HPV, but to claim that bikepacking and organizing events "adds nothing" is completely wrong.

Fixing a bike, while all alone in the rain with tools and parts
carried on that bike requires far more knowledge and experience than
having a vehicle following along with an exprienced bike mechanic and
lots of tools. Camping is a skill I learned as child. The knowledge is
knowing what to bring and how to use it. Real camping, BTW, is never
going to be done where you can ride a bicycle.

> Organizing group rides takes an understanding of the audience and the goals. Picking courses, setting up rest stops, sometimes mobile support and coordinating/enforcing marshals at busy intersections and first responders all take an understanding of the activity of cycling in general and each event adds to experienced gained in the sport. Take it a step further and promote USAC races - which I have a great deal of experience in. The difficulties increase by an order of magnitude when dealing with USAC officials, scoring, and the more-than-occasional 32-year-old cat 5 wannbe puke that threatens to sue (and even physical violence) because he got scored second for the $5 prize in the half-way prime. It's called "giving back". You should try it sometime. I have little respect for people who show up at these events and denigrate the volunteer standing on a remote corner of the course wearing an orange vest.

I, on the other hand, have little respect for those who play follow
the leader on bicycles.

>> >Answer in detail, please. That will allow us to gauge whether your courage and experience
>> >really are more than mine.
>> <SNORT> I'm not the least bit interested in your, or anyone else's
>> evaluation of my "courage and experience, nor am I interested in you
>> beyond my current evaluation of you as a loudmouth blowhard.
>>
>> >- Frank Krygowski
>>
>> Why is it that leftist loons are always so eager to get at other's
>> personal information?
>
>Very clearly, you haven't been paying much attention to tom and andre. They are the only ones here who demanded that I tell them what I do for a living, if I'm married (they both have some sort of bizarre homoerotic fantasy about me), how many kids I have, how old I am - no one else here has made any such demands. So this hypothetical of yours that 'only leftist loons' seem to do it is very clearly proven wrong in this forum, by the two loudest and most arrogant right-wingers we have.
>
>I also notice you post under an anonymous handle. I don't care, the vast majority here don't. The exceptions are - you guessed it - tom and andre. They both regularly criticize me for posting anonymously. "The anonymous coward zencycle" is one of their favorites, claiming that anyone posting anonymously is a coward and unworthy of human dignity. Tommy likes to follow it up with threats of violence. He regularly threatens to 'cave [enter name here] skull in', 'break [enter name here] legs'. Of course I'm guessing their hypocrisy will be on full display in your case, since you've already noted at least sympathy (if not outright support) for trump. *

Actually, all I did was correct some inaccurate politcal propaganda

>BTW - Very few bicycle-related discussion gets started in this forum without one of those two turning it into a personal attack within the first few responses. Here are a couple of recent classic examples:
>
>https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/tuLzyUUoN6c/m/_Qz5o5VAAAAJ
>https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/IFISJQJ6voU/m/vNGasPEpBgAJ
>https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/qfAQlQyDvJQ/m/LT0zABlKBgAJ
>https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/7oGPAc0MWIA/m/-0vf-tuaAQAJ
>
>* I haven't read any of your political contributions, and I don't _intend_ to.

I'll keep political contributions limited to shredding other's
political contributions. I have no need to politic here, but I'll
challenge political nonsense.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 12:28:28 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:30:42 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:59:57 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:23:34 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:55:40 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> >> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
>> >> >are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
>> >> >That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
>> >> >
>> >> >- Frank Krygowski
>> >> Boring? My bike path rides go through the country. I see lots of
>> >> wildlife and natural wonders. I've seen many snakes, gators, deer,
>> >> coyotes, a bear, wild pigs, squirrels, many different kinds of birds,
>> >> herons, hawks, an occasional frigate bird.
>> >
>> >That's fine if it satisfies you. I prefer access to the entire countryside, rather than being confined
>> >to the same out-and-back rides on bike trails.
>> >
>> >> BY the way, I grew up and spent many hours riding on roads, so I have
>> >> all the courage and experience I need. Probably more than you.
>> >
>> >OK, tell us your biking experience, please. (And drop the 3rd grader insults.)
>> <CHUCKLE> That's from the guy who suggested that I didn't ride in bike
>> lanes because I wasn't courageous or experienced enough... all
>> because, I assume because I shredded his Trump political post and he
>> couldn't come up witha response..
>
>Bad assumption.
>
>> >How much recreational riding have you done on roads? How many years commuting to work
>> >by bike on normal roads? How much other utility riding have you done on ordinary roads?
>> >How much overnight or longer traveling have you done on normal
>> >roads? How much bike camping? How many U.S. states have you ridden in? How many
>> >foreign countries? How many century rides have you done? How many rides longer than
>> >100 miles in one day? How many times have you organized and led friends on road rides?
>> >How many times have you organized and run multi-hundred rider event rides on normal roads?
>> <LOL> Organizing group rides and camping add nothing to anyone's
>> biking courage and experience.
>
>If you had done bike camping, you would know you are wrong.

Bad assumption.

>And organizing a multi-hundred
>rider event certainly does require experience and knowledge about cycling.

Nonsense, but it might require a desire to tell others what to do. Do
you get a thrill out of that? Does it make you feel big and important?
Does it improve your self esteem when others follow your orders? Do
you ever wonder what kind of person would voluntarily subject
themselves to that?

>> >Answer in detail, please. That will allow us to gauge whether your courage and experience
>> >really are more than mine.
>> <SNORT> I'm not the least bit interested in your, or anyone else's
>> evaluation of my "courage and experience...
>
>Gosh, a day ago you were guessing you knew as much as I do!

Actually, I was assuming I knew more than you. I'm still pretty sure I
do. You're just a immature little nobody with lots of angry noise.

>I will concede, you probably know more than I do about one aspect of cycling: hauling a tricycle
>around in a pickup truck and unloading it to ride back and forth on a bike path. But your lack of
>detailed response is adequate proof you know much less than I do about cycling.

Ah yes, you gave me detailed orders and I told you to shove them up
your ass. <LOL> Fine leader you are..

>Again, perhaps that's fine for you. Do whatever it takes to keep yourself moving. But don't pretend to
>any real expertise regarding cycling.

I never pretend.

>- Frank Krygowski

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 4:45:57 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> An author in Forbes doesn't like bike lanes. I generally agree.
>>>
>>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianafurchtgott-roth/2022/09/08/bike-lanes-dont-make-cycling-safe/?shS4453f74ca8
>>>
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>> Its opinion dressed up as facts, for example cycle lanes most certainly
>> can be built with out having traffic turning across it, Westminster to the
>> The Tower in london is one.
>>
>> And if it is, can be light etc controlled CS9 which is a new segregated
>> lane from Kew Bridge to Hammersmith does that, does mean you end up like
>> cars waiting at lights etc, but certainly no slower than the road.
>
> I am not a great fan of bike trails. They end up packed with pedestrians
> and dog walkers who think that bikes are in their way. Bike lanes on a
> street work very well.
>
Well some are for example I go though 3 parks on way to work normally, they
are generally pleasant places but not places for traveling fast, unless
it’s very early or late which I am sometimes, as you will get folks walking
dogs/children folks on adapted bikes and so on.

But that is rather the point of that route ie its not direct adds 2 miles
and 10mins but its a far more pleasant journey, largely traffic free very
green route.

Roger Merriman

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 4:50:54 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 12:28:28 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:30:42 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>
> >> <LOL> Organizing group rides and camping add nothing to anyone's
> >> biking courage and experience.
> >
> >If you had done bike camping, you would know you are wrong.
> Bad assumption.

Hmm. You're saying you wouldn't know you were wrong even if you _had_ done some bike
camping? OK, that's more reasonable than most of what you've written.

> >And organizing a multi-hundred
> >rider event certainly does require experience and knowledge about cycling.
> Nonsense, but it might require a desire to tell others what to do.

It sounds like you're guessing based on zero experience.You're certainly being very closed mouth
about your actual experience. Please tell us about the invitational bike rides you've organized.
Did yours ever win a national award? (Mine did, from the League of American Bicyclists.)

In fact, please tell us about the organized century rides you've attended. If you did have experience,
you'd know there's not much "telling people what to do" involved. There is lots of work choosing good
routes, marking routes, providing maps, organizing lunch and snack stops, providing support repairs, etc.
People choose whether or not to do the ride, whether or not to follow the route precisely, etc. and are
glad for the support. They are happy enough that they pay money for the privilege of riding the route.

> Actually, I was assuming I knew more than you. I'm still pretty sure I
> do.

It shouldn't be very hard to explain why, if you actually have relevant experience. Your silence (except
for insults) is very telling.

> >I will concede, you probably know more than I do about one aspect of cycling: hauling a tricycle
> >around in a pickup truck and unloading it to ride back and forth on a bike path. But your lack of
> >detailed response is adequate proof you know much less than I do about cycling.
> Ah yes, you gave me detailed orders and I told you to shove them up
> your ass.

You told us nothing because you've got nothing. If you knew anything, you'd have proven it by now.
Get back on your socialist-provided bike path and pottle away. But do be careful! For some people,
riding is very, very scary!

- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 15:36:51 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 4:50:54 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 12:28:28 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:30:42 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >>
>> >> <LOL> Organizing group rides and camping add nothing to anyone's
>> >> biking courage and experience.
>> >
>> >If you had done bike camping, you would know you are wrong.
>> Bad assumption.
>
>Hmm. You're saying you wouldn't know you were wrong even if you _had_ done some bike
>camping? OK, that's more reasonable than most of what you've written.
>
>> >And organizing a multi-hundred
>> >rider event certainly does require experience and knowledge about cycling.
>> Nonsense, but it might require a desire to tell others what to do.
>
>It sounds like you're guessing based on zero experience.You're certainly being very closed mouth
>about your actual experience. Please tell us about the invitational bike rides you've organized.
>Did yours ever win a national award? (Mine did, from the League of American Bicyclists.)

<SNICKER> I don't play follow the leader.. I ride to get away from
people, especially those kinds of people.
>
>In fact, please tell us about the organized century rides you've attended. If you did have experience,
>you'd know there's not much "telling people what to do" involved. There is lots of work choosing good
>routes, marking routes, providing maps, organizing lunch and snack stops, providing support repairs, etc.

<LOL> Not much riding experience there. Sounds more like sitting on
the couch with a computer "work."

>People choose whether or not to do the ride, whether or not to follow the route precisely, etc. and are
>glad for the support. They are happy enough that they pay money for the privilege of riding the route.

I want nothing to do with anybody that needs some organizer to plan
their ride.

>> Actually, I was assuming I knew more than you. I'm still pretty sure I
>> do.
>
>It shouldn't be very hard to explain why, if you actually have relevant experience. Your silence (except
>for insults) is very telling.

Some people, you for instance, seem to need validation from others. I
couldn't care less what a bunch of strangers think of me. Unlike you,
my self-image is quite secure.

>> >I will concede, you probably know more than I do about one aspect of cycling: hauling a tricycle
>> >around in a pickup truck and unloading it to ride back and forth on a bike path. But your lack of
>> >detailed response is adequate proof you know much less than I do about cycling.
>> Ah yes, you gave me detailed orders and I told you to shove them up
>> your ass.
>
>You told us nothing because you've got nothing. If you knew anything, you'd have proven it by now.

I not only told you nothing, I laughed mercilessly at your silly
demands for my personal information.

>Get back on your socialist-provided bike path and pottle away. But do be careful! For some people,
>riding is very, very scary!

Don't be angry at me. It's not my fault that you can't match my bike
riding performance.

>- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 12:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:56:35 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 9:36:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> > On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:55:42 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > > That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the competence or minimal courage and
>> > > are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and riding back and forth.
>> > > That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the same state. Although I hope not.
>> > >
>> > > - Frank Krygowski
>> > Speaking of prejudice ... Geezz you hit a new low.
>
>Sorry it offends you, Lou, but there are many people who lack the competence to ride anywhere but
>a bike path. There are many people who are afraid to ride even on quiet streets. I've met both types.
>As I said, they're free to continue doing that. I don't have to admire that timidity.
>
>> Frank lives in the middle of nowhere and hence never sees very heavy traffic. He can't even imagine traffic like most of the rest of bike riders see.
>
>Let's see: I've ridden Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC, Pittsburgh, Charlotte NC, Jacksonville FL, Cleveland, Akron, Columbus, Cincinnati, Nashville, Atlanta, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Los Angeles, San
>Francisco, Portland, Toronto, Paris, Dublin, Amsterdam... How long of a list do you need?
>
>- Frank Krygowski

Unusual as it may seem, I must agree with Frank. I ride/rode in
Bangkok which has rather heavy traffic and only once in, perhaps 20
years did I have a problem - I started to pass a bus on the left - we
drive on the left here - only to find that he was turning left and I
had to hop up on the sidewalk to avoid being squashed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQgqOJdOkDY
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 08:14:29 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 4:13:22 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:03:59 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:59:29 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> ><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 11:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> >><frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>An author in Forbes doesn't like bike lanes. I generally agree.
>> >>>
>> >>>https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianafurchtgott-roth/2022/09/08/bike-lanes-dont-make-cycling-safe/?sh=534453f74ca8
>> >>>
>> >>>- Frank Krygowski
>> >>
>> >>Nothing can make bicycling among truck and car traffic safe. I very
>> >>seldom do it anymore.
>> >
>> >By gorry you are right. So, logically, to make cycling really safe
>> >riding on public roads and highways must be banned!
>> You do what you're comfortable with, I'll do the same. I'm not a fan
>> of banning something simply because someone thinks it's not safe.
>> Neither do I want others to decide what's in my best interest...
>>
>> Let freedom ring
>
>Slocum with his usual big mouth fails to mention that he doesn't ride bikes.

Errr... Tommy, did you forget to take your medicine again? You seem to
be condemning me but none of the conversations shown in your message
had anything to do with me.
But, I suppose that we can chalk this up to "just another of Tommy's
fantasies", like his resume.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 08:20:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 2:01:08 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 15:41:26 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 04:23:25 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> ><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:25:58 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> >>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:13:18 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> >>><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:03:59 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:59:29 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> >>>>><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 11:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>>><frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>An author in Forbes doesn't like bike lanes. I generally agree.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianafurchtgott-roth/2022/09/08/bike-lanes-dont-make-cycling-safe/?sh=534453f74ca8
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>- Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>Nothing can make bicycling among truck and car traffic safe. I very
>> >>>>>>seldom do it anymore.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>By gorry you are right. So, logically, to make cycling really safe
>> >>>>>riding on public roads and highways must be banned!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>You do what you're comfortable with, I'll do the same. I'm not a fan
>> >>>>of banning something simply because someone thinks it's not safe.
>> >>>>Neither do I want others to decide what's in my best interest...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Let freedom ring
>> >>>
>> >>>I've ridden for 20 years, or so, entirely in countries that did not
>> >>>have "bike lanes" with no problems at all.
>> >>>
>> >>>As for banning things because they are thought to be unsafe... Well,
>> >>>traffic laws come to mind.
>> >>
>> >>That's more a case where almost everybody thinks it's unsafe
>> >>
>> >>> In fact I read that even books are banned
>> >>>in the U.S.
>> >>>https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/30/books/book-ban-us-schools.html
>> >>
>> >>So do you really think it's OK for school libraries to have
>> >>pornography?
>> >
>> >If a book is "legal" in a society then it should be "legal" in schools
>> >in that society.
>> Do you have any children? If so, how young were they when you thought
>> it was ok for them to have access to pornography?
> Again, Slocum allows his dementia to spill over more and more into this group. He has no children and only married a Thai woman so that he would have a free housekeeper.

Gee Tommy, so may posts, so many lies.
Are you really so bigoted as to believe that a wife is free help?
Well, I suppose if you keep her in a "dog house out the back" but most
people keep them in the house and buy them clothes and jewelry and a
new car every once in a while, and a house, or two.
As for children... one boy and two grand kids.

Now tell us how many children you have fathered?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:00:57 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 15:36:51 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 4:50:54 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 12:28:28 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:30:42 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> <LOL> Organizing group rides and camping add nothing to anyone's
> >> >> biking courage and experience.
> >> >
> >> >If you had done bike camping, you would know you are wrong.
> >> Bad assumption.
> >
> >Hmm. You're saying you wouldn't know you were wrong even if you _had_ done some bike
> >camping? OK, that's more reasonable than most of what you've written.
> >
> >> >And organizing a multi-hundred
> >> >rider event certainly does require experience and knowledge about cycling.
> >> Nonsense, but it might require a desire to tell others what to do.
> >
> >It sounds like you're guessing based on zero experience.You're certainly being very closed mouth
> >about your actual experience. Please tell us about the invitational bike rides you've organized.
> >Did yours ever win a national award? (Mine did, from the League of American Bicyclists.)
>
> <SNICKER> I don't play follow the leader.. I ride to get away from
> people, especially those kinds of people.

And I'm sure lots of people are grateful!

> >In fact, please tell us about the organized century rides you've attended. If you did have experience,
> >you'd know there's not much "telling people what to do" involved. There is lots of work choosing good
> >routes, marking routes, providing maps, organizing lunch and snack stops, providing support repairs, etc.
> >People choose whether or not to do the ride, whether or not to follow the route precisely, etc. and are
> >glad for the support. They are happy enough that they pay money for the privilege of riding the route.
> I want nothing to do with anybody that needs some organizer to plan
> their ride.

Hah! Says the guy who rides only on bike paths, where not only the route but the entire facility is planned
by bureaucrats!

SUCH a timid fellow!

- Frank Krygowski