On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 11:40:42 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who claims not to care about others impressions.
>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to your magnificent thighs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
>>>>>> Caught you looking...
>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling science/technology? We'll wait.....
>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any common technical problems.
>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
>>>>>> Oh well....
>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
>>>>>> those three legged stands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
>>>>>> two wheelers have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore it’. Does that not apply to you?
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>
>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that. Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know a thing about them.
>>>
>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
>>>
>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it in the correct direction.
>>
>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
>> have to pass though my body.
>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
>>
>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
>>
>
>Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
>oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
>stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
>
>Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
>is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
>both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
>very long time.

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
>>>>>> Caught you looking...
>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
>>>>>>> common technical problems.
>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
>>>>>> Oh well....
>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
>>>>>> those three legged stands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
>>>>>> two wheelers have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>
>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that.
>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
>>> a thing about them.
>>>
>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was
>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
>>>
>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
>>> in the correct direction.
>>
>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
>> have to pass though my body.
>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
>>
>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
>>
>
> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
>
> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
> very long time.
>
I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.

On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 9:29:32 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:

>
> My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
> the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
> got changed!
>
> Roger Merriman.

+1.

Lou

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:29:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

>AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
>>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
>>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
>>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
>>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
>>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
>>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
>>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
>>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
>>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
>>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
>>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
>>>>>>> Caught you looking...
>>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
>>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
>>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
>>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
>>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
>>>>>>>> common technical problems.
>>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
>>>>>>> Oh well....
>>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
>>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
>>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
>>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
>>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
>>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
>>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
>>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
>>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
>>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
>>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
>>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
>>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
>>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
>>>>>>> those three legged stands.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
>>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
>>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
>>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
>>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
>>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
>>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
>>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
>>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
>>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
>>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
>>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
>>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
>>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
>>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
>>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
>>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
>>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
>>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
>>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
>>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
>>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
>>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
>>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
>>>>>>> two wheelers have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
>>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
>>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
>>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
>>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
>>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
>>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
>>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
>>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
>>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
>>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
>>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
>>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
>>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
>>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
>>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
>>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
>>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
>>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
>>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
>>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that.
>>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
>>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
>>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
>>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
>>>> a thing about them.
>>>>
>>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
>>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
>>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
>>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
>>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was
>>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
>>>>
>>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
>>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
>>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
>>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
>>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
>>>> in the correct direction.
>>>
>>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
>>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
>>> have to pass though my body.
>>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
>>>
>>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
>>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
>>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
>>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
>>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
>>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
>>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
>>>
>>
>> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
>> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
>> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
>>
>> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
>> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
>> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
>> very long time.
>>
>I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
>on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
>I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
>is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.
>
>My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
>the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
>got changed!
>
>Roger Merriman.

On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:56:11 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:29:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
>
> >AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
> >>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
> >>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
> >>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
> >>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
> >>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
> >>>>>>>>>>> you.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
> >>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
> >>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
> >>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
> >>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
> >>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
> >>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
> >>>>>>> Caught you looking...
> >>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
> >>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
> >>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
> >>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
> >>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
> >>>>>>>> common technical problems.
> >>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
> >>>>>>> Oh well....
> >>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
> >>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
> >>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
> >>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
> >>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
> >>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
> >>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
> >>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
> >>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
> >>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
> >>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
> >>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
> >>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
> >>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
> >>>>>>> those three legged stands.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
> >>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
> >>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
> >>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
> >>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
> >>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
> >>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
> >>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
> >>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
> >>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
> >>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
> >>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
> >>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
> >>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
> >>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
> >>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
> >>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
> >>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
> >>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
> >>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
> >>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
> >>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
> >>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
> >>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
> >>>>>>> two wheelers have.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
> >>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
> >>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
> >>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
> >>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
> >>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
> >>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
> >>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
> >>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
> >>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
> >>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
> >>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
> >>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
> >>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
> >>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
> >>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
> >>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lou
> >>>>
> >>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
> >>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
> >>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
> >>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
> >>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that.
> >>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
> >>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
> >>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
> >>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
> >>>> a thing about them.
> >>>>
> >>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
> >>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
> >>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
> >>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
> >>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was
> >>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
> >>>>
> >>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
> >>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
> >>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
> >>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
> >>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
> >>>> in the correct direction.
> >>>
> >>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
> >>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
> >>> have to pass though my body.
> >>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
> >>>
> >>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
> >>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
> >>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
> >>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
> >>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
> >>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
> >>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
> >> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
> >> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
> >>
> >> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
> >> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
> >> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
> >> very long time.
> >>
> >I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
> >on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
> >I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
> >is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.
> >
> >My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
> >the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
> >got changed!
> >
> >Roger Merriman.
> I see direct mount deraileurs which I haven't noticed before. can
> anyone offer pros and cons? I'm looking at Shimano, hook up with my
> Shimano bar end shifters.. 9 Speed.

On 9/18/2022 2:56 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:29:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>
>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
>>>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
>>>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
>>>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
>>>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
>>>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
>>>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
>>>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
>>>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
>>>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
>>>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
>>>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
>>>>>>>> Caught you looking...
>>>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
>>>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
>>>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
>>>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
>>>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
>>>>>>>>> common technical problems.
>>>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
>>>>>>>> Oh well....
>>>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
>>>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
>>>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
>>>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
>>>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
>>>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
>>>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
>>>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
>>>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
>>>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
>>>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
>>>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
>>>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
>>>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
>>>>>>>> those three legged stands.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
>>>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
>>>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
>>>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
>>>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
>>>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
>>>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
>>>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
>>>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
>>>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
>>>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
>>>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
>>>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
>>>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
>>>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
>>>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
>>>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
>>>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
>>>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
>>>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
>>>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
>>>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
>>>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
>>>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
>>>>>>>> two wheelers have.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
>>>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
>>>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
>>>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
>>>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
>>>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
>>>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
>>>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
>>>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
>>>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
>>>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
>>>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
>>>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
>>>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
>>>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
>>>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
>>>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
>>>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
>>>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
>>>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
>>>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that.
>>>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
>>>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
>>>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
>>>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
>>>>> a thing about them.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
>>>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
>>>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
>>>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
>>>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was
>>>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
>>>>>
>>>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
>>>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
>>>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
>>>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
>>>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
>>>>> in the correct direction.
>>>>
>>>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
>>>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
>>>> have to pass though my body.
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
>>>>
>>>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
>>>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
>>>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
>>>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
>>>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
>>>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
>>>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
>>> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
>>> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
>>>
>>> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
>>> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
>>> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
>>> very long time.
>>>
>> I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
>> on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
>> I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
>> is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.
>>
>> My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
>> the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
>> got changed!
>>
>> Roger Merriman.
>
> I see direct mount deraileurs which I haven't noticed before. can
> anyone offer pros and cons? I'm looking at Shimano, hook up with my
> Shimano bar end shifters.. 9 Speed.
>

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:56:11 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:29:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>
>> >AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> >>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
>> >>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
>> >>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
>> >>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
>> >>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
>> >>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
>> >>>>>>>>>>> you.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
>> >>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
>> >>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
>> >>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
>> >>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
>> >>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
>> >>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
>> >>>>>>> Caught you looking...
>> >>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
>> >>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
>> >>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
>> >>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
>> >>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
>> >>>>>>>> common technical problems.
>> >>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
>> >>>>>>> Oh well....
>> >>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
>> >>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
>> >>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
>> >>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
>> >>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
>> >>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
>> >>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
>> >>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
>> >>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
>> >>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
>> >>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
>> >>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
>> >>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
>> >>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
>> >>>>>>> those three legged stands.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
>> >>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
>> >>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
>> >>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
>> >>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
>> >>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
>> >>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
>> >>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
>> >>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
>> >>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
>> >>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
>> >>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
>> >>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
>> >>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
>> >>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
>> >>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
>> >>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
>> >>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
>> >>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
>> >>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
>> >>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
>> >>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
>> >>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
>> >>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
>> >>>>>>> two wheelers have.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
>> >>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
>> >>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
>> >>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
>> >>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
>> >>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
>> >>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
>> >>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
>> >>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
>> >>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
>> >>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
>> >>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
>> >>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
>> >>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
>> >>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
>> >>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
>> >>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Lou
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
>> >>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
>> >>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
>> >>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
>> >>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that.
>> >>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
>> >>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
>> >>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
>> >>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
>> >>>> a thing about them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
>> >>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
>> >>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
>> >>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
>> >>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was
>> >>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
>> >>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
>> >>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
>> >>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
>> >>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
>> >>>> in the correct direction.
>> >>>
>> >>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
>> >>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
>> >>> have to pass though my body.
>> >>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
>> >>>
>> >>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
>> >>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
>> >>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
>> >>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
>> >>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
>> >>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
>> >>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
>> >> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
>> >> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
>> >>
>> >> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
>> >> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
>> >> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
>> >> very long time.
>> >>
>> >I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
>> >on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
>> >I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
>> >is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.
>> >
>> >My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
>> >the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
>> >got changed!
>> >
>> >Roger Merriman.
>> I see direct mount deraileurs which I haven't noticed before. can
>> anyone offer pros and cons? I'm looking at Shimano, hook up with my
>> Shimano bar end shifters.. 9 Speed.
>
>I don't think they're available for anything other than the 12 speeds. I don't like the idea either since they are mounted with the 12 mm twist in release That can come loose even a little and strongly effect shifting.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 15:14:07 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/18/2022 2:56 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:29:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
>>>>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
>>>>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
>>>>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
>>>>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
>>>>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
>>>>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
>>>>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
>>>>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
>>>>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
>>>>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
>>>>>>>>> Caught you looking...
>>>>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
>>>>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
>>>>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
>>>>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
>>>>>>>>>> common technical problems.
>>>>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
>>>>>>>>> Oh well....
>>>>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
>>>>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
>>>>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
>>>>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
>>>>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
>>>>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
>>>>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
>>>>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
>>>>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
>>>>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
>>>>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
>>>>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
>>>>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
>>>>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
>>>>>>>>> those three legged stands.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
>>>>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
>>>>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
>>>>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
>>>>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
>>>>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
>>>>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
>>>>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
>>>>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
>>>>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
>>>>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
>>>>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
>>>>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
>>>>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
>>>>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
>>>>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
>>>>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
>>>>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
>>>>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
>>>>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
>>>>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
>>>>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
>>>>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
>>>>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
>>>>>>>>> two wheelers have.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
>>>>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
>>>>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
>>>>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
>>>>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
>>>>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
>>>>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
>>>>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
>>>>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
>>>>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
>>>>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
>>>>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
>>>>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
>>>>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
>>>>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
>>>>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
>>>>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
>>>>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
>>>>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
>>>>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
>>>>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that.
>>>>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
>>>>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
>>>>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
>>>>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
>>>>>> a thing about them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
>>>>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
>>>>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
>>>>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
>>>>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was
>>>>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
>>>>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
>>>>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
>>>>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
>>>>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
>>>>>> in the correct direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
>>>>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
>>>>> have to pass though my body.
>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
>>>>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
>>>>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
>>>>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
>>>>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
>>>>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
>>>>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
>>>> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
>>>> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
>>>>
>>>> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
>>>> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
>>>> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
>>>> very long time.
>>>>
>>> I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
>>> on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
>>> I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
>>> is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.
>>>
>>> My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
>>> the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
>>> got changed!
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman.
>>
>> I see direct mount deraileurs which I haven't noticed before. can
>> anyone offer pros and cons? I'm looking at Shimano, hook up with my
>> Shimano bar end shifters.. 9 Speed.
>>
>
>Shimano 7-8-9 changers shift correctly[1] with Shimano 9
>BarCons. Shimano 10-11 rear changers have a different cable
>travel.
>
>[1] some exceptions as always

On 9/18/2022 3:30 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:56:11 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:29:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
>>>>>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
>>>>>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
>>>>>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
>>>>>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
>>>>>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
>>>>>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
>>>>>>>>>> Caught you looking...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
>>>>>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
>>>>>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
>>>>>>>>>>> common technical problems.
>>>>>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
>>>>>>>>>> Oh well....
>>>>>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
>>>>>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
>>>>>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
>>>>>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
>>>>>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
>>>>>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
>>>>>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
>>>>>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
>>>>>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
>>>>>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
>>>>>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
>>>>>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
>>>>>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
>>>>>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
>>>>>>>>>> those three legged stands.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
>>>>>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
>>>>>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
>>>>>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
>>>>>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
>>>>>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
>>>>>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
>>>>>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
>>>>>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
>>>>>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
>>>>>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
>>>>>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
>>>>>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
>>>>>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
>>>>>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
>>>>>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
>>>>>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
>>>>>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
>>>>>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
>>>>>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
>>>>>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
>>>>>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
>>>>>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
>>>>>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
>>>>>>>>>> two wheelers have.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
>>>>>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
>>>>>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
>>>>>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
>>>>>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
>>>>>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
>>>>>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
>>>>>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
>>>>>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
>>>>>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
>>>>>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
>>>>>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
>>>>>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
>>>>>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
>>>>>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
>>>>>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
>>>>>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
>>>>>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
>>>>>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
>>>>>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
>>>>>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that.
>>>>>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
>>>>>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
>>>>>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
>>>>>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
>>>>>>> a thing about them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
>>>>>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
>>>>>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
>>>>>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
>>>>>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was
>>>>>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
>>>>>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
>>>>>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
>>>>>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
>>>>>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
>>>>>>> in the correct direction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
>>>>>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
>>>>>> have to pass though my body.
>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
>>>>>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
>>>>>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
>>>>>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
>>>>>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
>>>>>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
>>>>>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
>>>>> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
>>>>> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
>>>>> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
>>>>> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
>>>>> very long time.
>>>>>
>>>> I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
>>>> on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
>>>> I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
>>>> is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.
>>>>
>>>> My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
>>>> the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
>>>> got changed!
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman.
>>> I see direct mount deraileurs which I haven't noticed before. can
>>> anyone offer pros and cons? I'm looking at Shimano, hook up with my
>>> Shimano bar end shifters.. 9 Speed.
>>
>> I don't think they're available for anything other than the 12 speeds. I don't like the idea either since they are mounted with the 12 mm twist in release That can come loose even a little and strongly effect shifting.
>
> direct mount...
> https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/altus-m370/RD-M370-SGS.html
>
> or
>
> https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Alivio-RD-M3100-Rear-Derailleur/dp/B08CGYD213/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
>

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 16:54:33 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/18/2022 3:30 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:56:11 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:29:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
>>>>>>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
>>>>>>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
>>>>>>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
>>>>>>>>>>> Caught you looking...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
>>>>>>>>>>>> common technical problems.
>>>>>>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
>>>>>>>>>>> Oh well....
>>>>>>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
>>>>>>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
>>>>>>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
>>>>>>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
>>>>>>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
>>>>>>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
>>>>>>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
>>>>>>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
>>>>>>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
>>>>>>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
>>>>>>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
>>>>>>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
>>>>>>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
>>>>>>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
>>>>>>>>>>> those three legged stands.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
>>>>>>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
>>>>>>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
>>>>>>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
>>>>>>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
>>>>>>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
>>>>>>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
>>>>>>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
>>>>>>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
>>>>>>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
>>>>>>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
>>>>>>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
>>>>>>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
>>>>>>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
>>>>>>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
>>>>>>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
>>>>>>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
>>>>>>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
>>>>>>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
>>>>>>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
>>>>>>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
>>>>>>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
>>>>>>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
>>>>>>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
>>>>>>>>>>> two wheelers have.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
>>>>>>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
>>>>>>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
>>>>>>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
>>>>>>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
>>>>>>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
>>>>>>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
>>>>>>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
>>>>>>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
>>>>>>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
>>>>>>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
>>>>>>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
>>>>>>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
>>>>>>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
>>>>>>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
>>>>>>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
>>>>>>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
>>>>>>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
>>>>>>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
>>>>>>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
>>>>>>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that.
>>>>>>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
>>>>>>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
>>>>>>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
>>>>>>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
>>>>>>>> a thing about them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
>>>>>>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
>>>>>>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
>>>>>>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
>>>>>>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was
>>>>>>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
>>>>>>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
>>>>>>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
>>>>>>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
>>>>>>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
>>>>>>>> in the correct direction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
>>>>>>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
>>>>>>> have to pass though my body.
>>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
>>>>>>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
>>>>>>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
>>>>>>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
>>>>>>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
>>>>>>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
>>>>>>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
>>>>>> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
>>>>>> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
>>>>>> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
>>>>>> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
>>>>>> very long time.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
>>>>> on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
>>>>> I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
>>>>> is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.
>>>>>
>>>>> My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
>>>>> the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
>>>>> got changed!
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman.
>>>> I see direct mount deraileurs which I haven't noticed before. can
>>>> anyone offer pros and cons? I'm looking at Shimano, hook up with my
>>>> Shimano bar end shifters.. 9 Speed.
>>>
>>> I don't think they're available for anything other than the 12 speeds. I don't like the idea either since they are mounted with the 12 mm twist in release That can come loose even a little and strongly effect shifting.
>>
>> direct mount...
>> https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/altus-m370/RD-M370-SGS.html
>>
>> or
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Alivio-RD-M3100-Rear-Derailleur/dp/B08CGYD213/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
>>
>
>We've fallen into a semantic gulf here.
>
>Mid to low price derailleurs are packaged either with or
>without bolt-on adapter (Sheldon Brown coined the term
>'claw' for that)
>
>http://www.yellowjersey.org/rdvic.jpg
>
>Alternate packaging is 'no adapter' or 'direct'. Which is
>what you referenced.
>
>The term is being used again for a new format frame mount:
>http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/03/04/2013-shimano-direct-mount-rear-derailleurs-coming-tech-breakdown/
>
>Which is odd because both terms are current at Shimano with
>utterly different meanings.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:59:30 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/17/2022 8:48 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 13:49:03 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:34:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/17/2022 7:20 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:11:04 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/17/2022 3:08 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:31:44 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 09:11:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 5:58:18 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/15/2022 3:49 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 06:09:43 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>>>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 16:24:06 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 04:43:55 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 09:42:57 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 18:37:53 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 15:06:48 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:35:48 PM UTC+1, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 13:30:40 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:59:57 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:23:34 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:55:40 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That does not mean you must ride on roads. If you lack the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competence or minimal courage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are unwilling to learn, keep trucking your pedal vehicle to a bike path and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> riding back and forth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's too boring for me, but maybe someday I'll be in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same state. Although I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boring? My bike path rides go through the country. I see lots of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wildlife and natural wonders. I've seen many snakes, gators, deer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coyotes, a bear, wild pigs, squirrels, many different kinds of birds,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> herons, hawks, an occasional frigate bird.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's fine if it satisfies you. I prefer access to the entire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> countryside, rather than being confined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the same out-and-back rides on bike trails.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BY the way, I grew up and spent many hours riding on roads, so I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the courage and experience I need. Probably more than you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, tell us your biking experience, please. (And drop the 3rd grader insults.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <CHUCKLE> That's from the guy who suggested that I didn't ride in bike
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lanes because I wasn't courageous or experienced enough... all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because, I assume because I shredded his Trump political post and he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't come up witha response..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How much recreational riding have you done on roads? How many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years commuting to work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by bike on normal roads? How much other utility riding have you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done on ordinary roads?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How much overnight or longer traveling have you done on normal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roads? How much bike camping? How many U.S. states have you ridden in? How many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> foreign countries? How many century rides have you done? How
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many rides longer than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 miles in one day? How many times have you organized and led
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends on road rides?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many times have you organized and run multi-hundred rider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> event rides on normal roads?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <LOL> Organizing group rides and camping add nothing to anyone's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biking courage and experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By the way, I really dislike the group ride organizers who convince a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bunch of follow-the-leader group thinkers to run along beside each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other so they can gossip and not bother watching where they are going.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I expect the organizers imagine themselves as leaders of some sort.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> People who thirst for the attention they get while leading the pack.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Answer in detail, please. That will allow us to gauge whether
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your courage and experience
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really are more than mine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <SNORT> I'm not the least bit interested in your, or anyone else's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evaluation of my "courage and experience, nor am I interested in you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beyond my current evaluation of you as a loudmouth blowhard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why is it that leftist loons are always so eager to get at other's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personal information?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Control.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed. Leftists are always eager to tell others what to do and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get angry if you don't obey. Some also get angry when you laugh and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make fun of them. Leftists are usually very thin skinned. It's easy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for me to spot that because they apparently believe they hurt my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feelings by trying to make fun of me. I love that. They're telling me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly what upsets them. They're trying to hurt me by doing what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hurts them. Damned good fun.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Leftists do what they're told to do and they elect people who tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them what to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But what is a leftist or a rightist? From what I read the Leftists
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to give government money to people and organizations while the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rightists do what? Not give money?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too bad that's not the case. Many Republicans are as foolish and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> selfish as the Democrats. I'm a registered Republican, but I'm a John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Locke, Thomas Hobbes libertarian (small l) at heart.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I might note that if the U.S. were to stop all the government handouts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the budget could be nearly 60% smaller (disregarding interest on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> national debt).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How's that for an election platform... "Elect me and I'll reduce taxes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by 60%!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How about term limits for Congress? I'd vote for that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But you still don't explain just what a "leftist" or "rightist" is. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offered one possible description and you say it is not correct. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again exactly what is a "leftist" and a "rightist"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I see it, leftists seem to favor more government control and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> government interference in public and private affairs. I do not use
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the term "rightest," but I assume that people who do use it are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> referring to someone who is the opposite of a leftist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if there are "leftists" there must be "rightists" or maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>> middle of the roadists", mustn't there? No... there can't be middle of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the roadists unless there is a left and right,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Centralists is banded by folks who feel that so and so political figure
>>>>>>>>>>> isn’t left enough for them and is far too middle of the road, the right
>>>>>>>>>>> doesn’t seem to differentiate probably as it doesn’t sound scary enough!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But wasn't the MAGA thing an intrusion into public and private
>>>>>>>>>>>> affairs? The so called Soybean war when the government imposed a duty
>>>>>>>>>>>> on Chinese stuff and the Chinese, in return, stopped buying soybeans
>>>>>>>>>>>> from the U.S. and the government had to give the soybean farmers a
>>>>>>>>>>>> whole bunch of money. I read it was 4.7billion dollars, as
>>>>>>>>>>>> compensation for their losses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or are you like Tommy who uses the term "communist" as a curse, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I ask him to define just what a "Communist" is he runs away and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hides his head.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communism is easy to define. Look it up...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/communism
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I know what it means. My point was that Tommy uses it as a curse
>>>>>>>>>>>> but when asked to define the term can't seem to do so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A local communist politician in my area wrote a book called
>>>>>>>>>> 'Yellow Stripes and Road Kill' which perfectly describes
>>>>>>>>>> 'the middle of the road'.
>>>>>>>>> I sort of think that it is amazing that the fascist communists here don't e4ven understand what they have been advocating and why their cause is doomed even before it was declared. Just like the Russians with ALL of their power are now running from the Ukrainians, so too will Francis, little Johnny, and the rest of the stupid six find the overwhelming majority of people who are middle of the road ready to overrule every single desire they ever wanted. What do you suppose Francis is going to do for money after people stop attending colleges designed as nothing more than money pits? Does he think that the teacher's union is going to protect him from the bankruptcy of his source of income?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "the fascist communists"??
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What in the world is a "the fascist communist"? Is that like a
>>>>>>>> "democratic republican"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic-Republican_Party
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an American political party founded by Thomas Jefferson and James
>>>>>>> Madison in the early 1790s
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or maybe "a right handed left handed" bloke..
>>>>>>>> Tommy, your dementia is running away with you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can one not be a fascist and a communist at the same time?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A noted expert on the subject, when asked 'What is Fascism?'
>>>>>> replied, "Everything within the state. Nothing outside the
>>>>>> state. Nothing against the state".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Benito Mussolini can't be wrong about Fascism. He invented it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't that the current Democrat party's goal?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All communist parties share that trait.
>>>
>>> I'm not inclined to label the Dems as communist, but some of them sure
>>> have some socialist ideas. Perhaps when they lose the House, some more
>>> moderates will take over and send the "squad" packing.
>>
>> "Socialist ideas"?
>>
>> You mean like unemployment payments, aid for unwed mothers, social
>> security, government loans to collage kids, and central government aid
>> to the states? Florida gets, as of 2013, some $25,468,800 (dollars in
>> 1,000s) of Federal aid. About 33.2% of general revenue
>> https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_aid_to_state_budgets
>>
>
>Yes.

On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 9:11:34 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> > > > <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > > > >> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who claims not to care about others impressions.
> > > > >> I already made my point.
> > > > >
> > > > >I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to your magnificent thighs.
> > > > >
> > > > >> >> I'm only
> > > > >> >> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
> > > > >> >> you.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
> > > > >> Like you're doing, here?
> > > > >
> > > > >Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
> > > > >
> > > > >> >- in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
> > > > >> The irony bell is ringing....
> > > > >
> > > > >says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
> > > > Caught you looking...
> > > > >> >To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
> > > > >> Ring ring....
> > > > >
> > > > >That's your conscience, pay attention
> > > > >
> > > > >> >Care to post any content remotely related to cycling science/technology? We'll wait.....
> > > > >> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
> > > > >> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
> > > > >
> > > > >If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any common technical problems.
> > > > You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
> > > > Oh well....
> > > > > Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
> > > > Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
> > > > than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
> > > > Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
> > > > issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
> > > > that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
> > > > we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
> > > > important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
> > > > alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
> > > > rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
> > > > two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
> > > > into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
> > > > on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
> > > > those three legged stands.
> > > >
> > > > Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
> > > > a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
> > > > have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
> > > > front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
> > > > brakes, of course, are not possible.
> > > >
> > > > High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
> > > > more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
> > > > rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
> > > > braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
> > > > on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
> > > > wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
> > > > situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
> > > > has sent a few trikers head over heels.
> > > >
> > > > My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
> > > > an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
> > > > the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
> > > > many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
> > > > return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
> > > > simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
> > > > boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
> > > > quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
> > > > length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
> > > > chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
> > > > have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
> > > > road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
> > > > I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
> > > > two wheelers have.
> > > >
> > > > I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
> > > > any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
> > > > over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
> > > > years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
> > > > back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
> > > > technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
> > > > replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
> > > > front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
> > > > em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
> > > > tightening is a good rainy day activity.
> > > >
> > > > I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
> > > > replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
> > > > hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
> > > > asked, just a picture.
> > > I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
> > > Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
> > >
> > > - Frank Krygowski
> > Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore it’. Does that not apply to you?
> >
> > Lou
> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that. Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know a thing about them.
>
> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
>
> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it in the correct direction.

On 9/17/2022 6:48 PM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> "Socialist ideas"?
>
> You mean like unemployment payments, aid for unwed mothers, social
> security, government loans to collage kids, and central government aid
> to the states? Florida gets, as of 2013, some $25,468,800 (dollars in
> 1,000s) of Federal aid. About 33.2% of general revenue
> https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_aid_to_state_budgets

Florida is an extreme case since they rank third out of fifty in terms
of the most federal money. Only fourteen out of fifty states, including
California, get less in federal aid than they put in. Red states are
disproportionately "takers" when it comes to federal money
<https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/POchtZ9trFYBy_w3RTJMrse_4Dc=/570x760/media/img/posts/2014/05/Slide3/original.jpg>.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 23:50:35 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 9/17/2022 6:48 PM, John B. wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> "Socialist ideas"?
>>
>> You mean like unemployment payments, aid for unwed mothers, social
>> security, government loans to collage kids, and central government aid
>> to the states? Florida gets, as of 2013, some $25,468,800 (dollars in
>> 1,000s) of Federal aid. About 33.2% of general revenue
>> https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_aid_to_state_budgets
>
>Florida is an extreme case since they rank third out of fifty in terms
>of the most federal money. Only fourteen out of fifty states, including
>California, get less in federal aid than they put in. Red states are
>disproportionately "takers" when it comes to federal money
><https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/POchtZ9trFYBy_w3RTJMrse_4Dc=/570x760/media/img/posts/2014/05/Slide3/original.jpg>.

<LOL> I think you should check your cite. It's not what you think it
is.

BTW:
Florida has put in more than they've "taken" for years.
California barely breaks even.

https://howmuch.net/articles/federal-budget-receipts-and-expenditures-across-the-united-states

On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 1:30:09 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:56:11 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:29:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> >> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> >> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> >>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> >>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail..com wrote:
> >> >>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >> >>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail..com"
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
> >> >>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
> >> >>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
> >> >>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
> >> >>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> you.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
> >> >>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
> >> >>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
> >> >>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
> >> >>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
> >> >>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
> >> >>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
> >> >>>>>>> Caught you looking...
> >> >>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
> >> >>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
> >> >>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
> >> >>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
> >> >>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
> >> >>>>>>>> common technical problems.
> >> >>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
> >> >>>>>>> Oh well....
> >> >>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
> >> >>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
> >> >>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
> >> >>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
> >> >>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
> >> >>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
> >> >>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
> >> >>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
> >> >>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
> >> >>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
> >> >>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
> >> >>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
> >> >>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
> >> >>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
> >> >>>>>>> those three legged stands.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
> >> >>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with.. We
> >> >>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
> >> >>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
> >> >>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
> >> >>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
> >> >>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
> >> >>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
> >> >>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
> >> >>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
> >> >>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
> >> >>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
> >> >>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
> >> >>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
> >> >>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
> >> >>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
> >> >>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
> >> >>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
> >> >>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
> >> >>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
> >> >>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
> >> >>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
> >> >>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
> >> >>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
> >> >>>>>>> two wheelers have.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
> >> >>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
> >> >>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
> >> >>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
> >> >>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
> >> >>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
> >> >>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
> >> >>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
> >> >>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
> >> >>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
> >> >>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
> >> >>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
> >> >>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
> >> >>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
> >> >>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> >>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
> >> >>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
> >> >>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Lou
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
> >> >>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
> >> >>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
> >> >>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
> >> >>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that..
> >> >>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
> >> >>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
> >> >>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
> >> >>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
> >> >>>> a thing about them.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
> >> >>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
> >> >>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
> >> >>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
> >> >>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was
> >> >>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
> >> >>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
> >> >>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
> >> >>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
> >> >>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
> >> >>>> in the correct direction.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
> >> >>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
> >> >>> have to pass though my body.
> >> >>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
> >> >>>
> >> >>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
> >> >>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
> >> >>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
> >> >>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
> >> >>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
> >> >>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
> >> >>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
> >> >> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
> >> >> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
> >> >>
> >> >> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
> >> >> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
> >> >> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
> >> >> very long time.
> >> >>
> >> >I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
> >> >on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
> >> >I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
> >> >is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.
> >> >
> >> >My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
> >> >the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
> >> >got changed!
> >> >
> >> >Roger Merriman.
> >> I see direct mount deraileurs which I haven't noticed before. can
> >> anyone offer pros and cons? I'm looking at Shimano, hook up with my
> >> Shimano bar end shifters.. 9 Speed.
> >
> >I don't think they're available for anything other than the 12 speeds. I don't like the idea either since they are mounted with the 12 mm twist in release That can come loose even a little and strongly effect shifting.
> direct mount...
> https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/altus-m370/RD-M370-SGS.html
>
> or
>
> https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Alivio-RD-M3100-Rear-Derailleur/dp/B08CGYD213/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_

On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 07:41:47 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 1:30:09 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:56:11 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:29:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>> >> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >> >> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> >>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> >>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> >> >>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
>> >> >>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
>> >> >>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> you.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
>> >> >>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
>> >> >>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
>> >> >>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
>> >> >>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
>> >> >>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
>> >> >>>>>>> Caught you looking...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
>> >> >>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
>> >> >>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
>> >> >>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
>> >> >>>>>>>> common technical problems.
>> >> >>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
>> >> >>>>>>> Oh well....
>> >> >>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
>> >> >>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
>> >> >>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
>> >> >>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
>> >> >>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
>> >> >>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
>> >> >>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
>> >> >>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
>> >> >>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
>> >> >>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
>> >> >>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
>> >> >>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
>> >> >>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
>> >> >>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
>> >> >>>>>>> those three legged stands.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
>> >> >>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
>> >> >>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
>> >> >>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
>> >> >>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
>> >> >>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
>> >> >>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
>> >> >>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
>> >> >>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
>> >> >>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
>> >> >>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
>> >> >>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
>> >> >>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
>> >> >>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
>> >> >>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
>> >> >>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
>> >> >>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
>> >> >>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
>> >> >>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
>> >> >>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
>> >> >>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
>> >> >>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
>> >> >>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
>> >> >>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
>> >> >>>>>>> two wheelers have.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
>> >> >>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
>> >> >>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
>> >> >>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
>> >> >>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
>> >> >>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
>> >> >>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
>> >> >>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
>> >> >>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
>> >> >>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
>> >> >>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
>> >> >>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
>> >> >>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
>> >> >>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
>> >> >>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> >> >>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
>> >> >>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
>> >> >>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Lou
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
>> >> >>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
>> >> >>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
>> >> >>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
>> >> >>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that.
>> >> >>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
>> >> >>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
>> >> >>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
>> >> >>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
>> >> >>>> a thing about them.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
>> >> >>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
>> >> >>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
>> >> >>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
>> >> >>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was
>> >> >>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
>> >> >>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
>> >> >>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
>> >> >>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
>> >> >>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
>> >> >>>> in the correct direction.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
>> >> >>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
>> >> >>> have to pass though my body.
>> >> >>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
>> >> >>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
>> >> >>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
>> >> >>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
>> >> >>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
>> >> >>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
>> >> >>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
>> >> >> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
>> >> >> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
>> >> >> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
>> >> >> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
>> >> >> very long time.
>> >> >>
>> >> >I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
>> >> >on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
>> >> >I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
>> >> >is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.
>> >> >
>> >> >My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
>> >> >the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
>> >> >got changed!
>> >> >
>> >> >Roger Merriman.
>> >> I see direct mount deraileurs which I haven't noticed before. can
>> >> anyone offer pros and cons? I'm looking at Shimano, hook up with my
>> >> Shimano bar end shifters.. 9 Speed.
>> >
>> >I don't think they're available for anything other than the 12 speeds. I don't like the idea either since they are mounted with the 12 mm twist in release That can come loose even a little and strongly effect shifting.
>> direct mount...
>> https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/altus-m370/RD-M370-SGS.html
>>
>> or
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Alivio-RD-M3100-Rear-Derailleur/dp/B08CGYD213/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_
>
>That is a normal rear derailleur. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technologies/component/details/direct-mount-rear-derailleur.html

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 8:24:14 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 07:41:47 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 1:30:09 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:56:11 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:29:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> >> >> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> >> >> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> >> >>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> >> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> >> >>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >> >> >>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
> >> >> >>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> you.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
> >> >> >>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
> >> >> >>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
> >> >> >>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
> >> >> >>>>>>> Caught you looking...
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself..
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
> >> >> >>>>>>>> common technical problems.
> >> >> >>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
> >> >> >>>>>>> Oh well....
> >> >> >>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
> >> >> >>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
> >> >> >>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
> >> >> >>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
> >> >> >>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
> >> >> >>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
> >> >> >>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
> >> >> >>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
> >> >> >>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
> >> >> >>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
> >> >> >>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
> >> >> >>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
> >> >> >>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
> >> >> >>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
> >> >> >>>>>>> those three legged stands.
> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
> >> >> >>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
> >> >> >>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
> >> >> >>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
> >> >> >>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
> >> >> >>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
> >> >> >>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
> >> >> >>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
> >> >> >>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
> >> >> >>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
> >> >> >>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
> >> >> >>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
> >> >> >>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
> >> >> >>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
> >> >> >>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
> >> >> >>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
> >> >> >>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
> >> >> >>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
> >> >> >>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
> >> >> >>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
> >> >> >>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
> >> >> >>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
> >> >> >>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
> >> >> >>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
> >> >> >>>>>>> two wheelers have.
> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
> >> >> >>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
> >> >> >>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
> >> >> >>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
> >> >> >>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
> >> >> >>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
> >> >> >>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
> >> >> >>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
> >> >> >>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
> >> >> >>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
> >> >> >>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
> >> >> >>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
> >> >> >>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
> >> >> >>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
> >> >> >>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
> >> >> >>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
> >> >> >>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> Lou
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
> >> >> >>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
> >> >> >>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
> >> >> >>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
> >> >> >>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that.
> >> >> >>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
> >> >> >>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
> >> >> >>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
> >> >> >>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
> >> >> >>>> a thing about them.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
> >> >> >>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
> >> >> >>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
> >> >> >>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
> >> >> >>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16.. I was
> >> >> >>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
> >> >> >>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
> >> >> >>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
> >> >> >>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
> >> >> >>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
> >> >> >>>> in the correct direction.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
> >> >> >>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
> >> >> >>> have to pass though my body.
> >> >> >>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
> >> >> >>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
> >> >> >>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
> >> >> >>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
> >> >> >>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
> >> >> >>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
> >> >> >>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
> >> >> >> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
> >> >> >> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
> >> >> >> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
> >> >> >> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
> >> >> >> very long time.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
> >> >> >on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
> >> >> >I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
> >> >> >is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
> >> >> >the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
> >> >> >got changed!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Roger Merriman.
> >> >> I see direct mount deraileurs which I haven't noticed before. can
> >> >> anyone offer pros and cons? I'm looking at Shimano, hook up with my
> >> >> Shimano bar end shifters.. 9 Speed.
> >> >
> >> >I don't think they're available for anything other than the 12 speeds.. I don't like the idea either since they are mounted with the 12 mm twist in release That can come loose even a little and strongly effect shifting.
> >> direct mount...
> >> https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/altus-m370/RD-M370-SGS.html
> >>
> >> or
> >>
> >> https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Alivio-RD-M3100-Rear-Derailleur/dp/B08CGYD213/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_
> >
> >That is a normal rear derailleur. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technologies/component/details/direct-mount-rear-derailleur.html
> I think I'm going with this one:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Deore-RD-M592-Derailleur-9-Speed/dp/B002PTQFXA/ref=sr_1_7?crid=IWS78I8TNF97&keywords=cM592-SGS%2B9-Speed%2BLong%2BCage%2BShadow&qid=1663539923&sprefix=c%2Caps%2C3283&sr=8-7&th=1&psc=1
Difficult to go wrong with a Deore.

On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:33:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 8:24:14 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 07:41:47 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 1:30:09 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:56:11 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> >> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:29:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>> >> >> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >> >> >> On 9/18/2022 9:47 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> >> >>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> >> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> >> >>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:58:06 AM UTC+2, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >> >>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 5:02:09 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> >> >>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> >> >> >>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:45:34 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Gee, why don't you post more pictures to your facebook page and
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> tell us to go look at them? Strange behaviour for someone who
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> claims not to care about others impressions.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> I already made my point.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> I don't think so, if you had we'd all be impressed and bow down to
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> your magnificent thighs.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm only
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> sticking around here because it's fun to thumb my nose at fools like
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> you.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Good start, you admit being here for no other reason than to
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> troll. In other words, your only reason to post is to distract and antagonize
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Like you're doing, here?
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Care to look at how many cycling related posts that aren't
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> antagonistic trolls I make compared to you?
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> - in case you hadn't realized it, that's the classic definition of a fool.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> The irony bell is ringing....
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> says the fool that cares so little about what anyone thinks he
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> creates a special Facebook page to show off his thighs, That irony
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> bell is obviously ringing in your head alone.
>> >> >> >>>>>>> Caught you looking...
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you're making a fool of no one but yourself.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Ring ring....
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> That's your conscience, pay attention
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Care to post any content remotely related to cycling
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> science/technology? We'll wait.....
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> I was waiting to see something more technical than fastening down
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> shift cables. I never had any problems with that.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> If true, feel free to reveal your secrets to never having any
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> common technical problems.
>> >> >> >>>>>>> You really think fastening down shift cables is a technical problem?
>> >> >> >>>>>>> Oh well....
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Truth is, you're too afraid to post anything technical for fear of
>> >> >> >>>>>>>> being revealed to be as incompetent as kunich.
>> >> >> >>>>>>> Truth is we trikers actually have more technical issues to deal with
>> >> >> >>>>>>> than two wheel bikers. The only thing a two wheel bike has that my
>> >> >> >>>>>>> Catrike doesn't have is the front fork that transmits all the road
>> >> >> >>>>>>> issues right up to your shoulders and a seat that's so uncomfortable
>> >> >> >>>>>>> that many of you have to wear pads in your pants. Instead of the fork
>> >> >> >>>>>>> we have two headsets to deal with and the correct tightness is more
>> >> >> >>>>>>> important because of how it can mess up the alignment. Speaking of the
>> >> >> >>>>>>> alignment, if it's incorrect, it can wear the tires and increase
>> >> >> >>>>>>> rolling resistance. Aligning the front wheel, (toe in) is something
>> >> >> >>>>>>> two wheelers don't have to deal with. I've built alignment devices
>> >> >> >>>>>>> into my trike maintenance stand. Turning a trike over and setting it
>> >> >> >>>>>>> on bars and seat doesn't work, nor can you just clamp it onto one of
>> >> >> >>>>>>> those three legged stands.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>> Whereas the rear wheel setup is just about the same as a two wheeler,
>> >> >> >>>>>>> a trike has two sets of front wheels and bearings to deal with. We
>> >> >> >>>>>>> have two front wheels to keep the spokes tight and aligned, and two
>> >> >> >>>>>>> front brakes to align disks and calipers. The ridiculous old rim
>> >> >> >>>>>>> brakes, of course, are not possible.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>> High speed braking on a bicycle has always been an issue, but even
>> >> >> >>>>>>> more so on a trike. On most bikes, front wheel braking lightens the
>> >> >> >>>>>>> rear and threatens linear stability. On a trike, uneven front wheel
>> >> >> >>>>>>> braking threatens the linear stability even more. Weight distribution
>> >> >> >>>>>>> on a trike is more forward and many trikers have experienced the rear
>> >> >> >>>>>>> wheel lifting completely off the ground even in moderate braking
>> >> >> >>>>>>> situations. Lightening the rear along with uneven front wheel braking
>> >> >> >>>>>>> has sent a few trikers head over heels.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>> My Catrike requires just short of thirteen feet of chain and there's
>> >> >> >>>>>>> an issue of getting that chain stretched from the bottom bracket to
>> >> >> >>>>>>> the rear wheel. An idler gear is standard issue for the power side and
>> >> >> >>>>>>> many trikers replace the original chain tube with an idler on the
>> >> >> >>>>>>> return side. Most two wheelers can change their pedal stroke length by
>> >> >> >>>>>>> simply raising or lowering the seat. I can do that by adjusting my
>> >> >> >>>>>>> boom length, but that also affects my chain. If I move the boom a
>> >> >> >>>>>>> quarter inch, it changes the chain by a half inch. Because of the
>> >> >> >>>>>>> length of the chain and also the power side idler in the middle, cross
>> >> >> >>>>>>> chaining something I no longer concern myself with. I do, however,
>> >> >> >>>>>>> have to deal with the four inch clearance over speed bumps, curbs, and
>> >> >> >>>>>>> road clutter. Threading through debri and such is more difficult since
>> >> >> >>>>>>> I have three separate tracks to plan for instead of the one track you
>> >> >> >>>>>>> two wheelers have.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>> I've stated that my 2009 Catrike has never visited a bike shop or had
>> >> >> >>>>>>> any maintenance other than from me. I bought it new in 2009 and have
>> >> >> >>>>>>> over 31,000 documented miles on it since 2011. I have almost two full
>> >> >> >>>>>>> years of undocumented riding. I was doing about 2500 miles a year
>> >> >> >>>>>>> back then, so you can estimate my total mileage and imagine how many
>> >> >> >>>>>>> technical issues I might have managed. Almost everything has been
>> >> >> >>>>>>> replaced at least once except the derailleurs, bottom bracket, and the
>> >> >> >>>>>>> front hubs and rims. Whereas I do enjoy working on bikes, I don't fix
>> >> >> >>>>>>> em if they aint broke. Regular maintenance, a little grease and spoke
>> >> >> >>>>>>> tightening is a good rainy day activity.
>> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>> I'm on my fourth set of wheel bearings, ceramics on the front. I
>> >> >> >>>>>>> replaced the original frame several years ago when I noticed some
>> >> >> >>>>>>> hairline cracks. Catrike sent me a new one, no charge, no questions
>> >> >> >>>>>>> asked, just a picture.
>> >> >> >>>>>> I bet there's a tricycle discussion group where people might be interested in all that.
>> >> >> >>>>>> Or maybe a multi-user path riders' discussion group? Internet troll group?
>> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> >> >> >>>>> Frank you are looking silier and sillier in this thread. Your own
>> >> >> >>>>> words to me more than once ‘if you don’t like this discussion ignore
>> >> >> >>>>> it’. Does that not apply to you?
>> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>> Lou
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> Frank never added anything to this group even when I invited him to. He
>> >> >> >>>> would "uh-huh" Jobst all the time even when it had absolutely nothing
>> >> >> >>>> to do with engineering - something at which Jobst excelled. But when
>> >> >> >>>> Jobst would start in on bicycles he was no more competent than any
>> >> >> >>>> other rider and it would drive him wild when I would suggest that.
>> >> >> >>>> Right here is Frank doing the same thing. Probably worse since in the
>> >> >> >>>> best of times he was nothing more than a cycling tourist. That's fine
>> >> >> >>>> but don't give us opinions of high end bikes if you don't have any
>> >> >> >>>> experience with them. Don't tell us about recumbents if you don't know
>> >> >> >>>> a thing about them.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> By the way - I received and installed that large idler pulley arm onto
>> >> >> >>>> my Record rear derailleur. Took if for a ride yesterday. Now I can't be
>> >> >> >>>> sure that it was exactly those large idler pulleys but the pedals
>> >> >> >>>> seemed to turn a whole lot easier. When I thought I was riding easy at
>> >> >> >>>> around 12 mph when I looked at the Garmin I was doing 15 or 16. I was
>> >> >> >>>> using the wheels with the Michelin Pro4's on so that might have been part of the reason.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> That long arm with large idlers on it isn't perfect - it has a little
>> >> >> >>>> too much play in it and if you're not EXACTLY aligned it does make
>> >> >> >>>> noise trying to shift into another gear. But all in all I was pretty
>> >> >> >>>> impressed and I can see why the pros are using them. The idlers ARE
>> >> >> >>>> directional. The chain only engages the idler properly if you have it
>> >> >> >>>> in the correct direction.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> The idlers I was referring to on recumbents are for getting the chain
>> >> >> >>> around a bend. A direct path from my chain rings to my cassett would
>> >> >> >>> have to pass though my body.
>> >> >> >>> https://tinyurl.com/2n9byhop
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> One of the initial reasons I found this newsgroup was to ask about
>> >> >> >>> Derailleurs. Mine has around 35000 miles on it and although it seems
>> >> >> >>> to shift fine and the idlers don't look worn, I wondered if anyone
>> >> >> >>> knew about the lifespan of them. The bearing sufaces of the idlers
>> >> >> >>> must be terribly worn by now. I've seen where the idlers can be
>> >> >> >>> replaced, but maybe it's time for new derailleur. She's a nine speed
>> >> >> >>> and I'm not interested in changing that.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Idlers run better with an occasional (annual)cleaning and
>> >> >> >> oiling. Unless they are visibly chipped/worn or noticeably
>> >> >> >> stiff or rocking side to side they're fine.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Modern derailleurs are very well designed and produced. Wear
>> >> >> >> is associated mostly with salt water and repeated bashing
>> >> >> >> both of which are hard on pivots. In normal use they go a
>> >> >> >> very long time.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >I had one rear derailleur essentially wear out or become sluggish had been
>> >> >> >on the MTB for 8 years and fairly sloppy still shifted just slow about it!
>> >> >> >I eventually fitted a new one which has done 20k (miles) and 7 years later
>> >> >> >is fine, but it’s now the commute bike.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >My gravel and MTB do eat pulley wheels about once a year get ground down by
>> >> >> >the muck, the commute bike they last years I can’t remember last time they
>> >> >> >got changed!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Roger Merriman.
>> >> >> I see direct mount deraileurs which I haven't noticed before. can
>> >> >> anyone offer pros and cons? I'm looking at Shimano, hook up with my
>> >> >> Shimano bar end shifters.. 9 Speed.
>> >> >
>> >> >I don't think they're available for anything other than the 12 speeds. I don't like the idea either since they are mounted with the 12 mm twist in release That can come loose even a little and strongly effect shifting.
>> >> direct mount...
>> >> https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/altus-m370/RD-M370-SGS.html
>> >>
>> >> or
>> >>
>> >> https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Alivio-RD-M3100-Rear-Derailleur/dp/B08CGYD213/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_
>> >
>> >That is a normal rear derailleur. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technologies/component/details/direct-mount-rear-derailleur.html
>> I think I'm going with this one:
>>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Deore-RD-M592-Derailleur-9-Speed/dp/B002PTQFXA/ref=sr_1_7?crid=IWS78I8TNF97&keywords=cM592-SGS%2B9-Speed%2BLong%2BCage%2BShadow&qid=1663539923&sprefix=c%2Caps%2C3283&sr=8-7&th=1&psc=1
>Difficult to go wrong with a Deore.