In message <spn7nk$tu6$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:14:44 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:

>> The only time I've used a coin this year is to undo a screw designed to
>> be manipulated with a coin.
>
>I carry 20ps for exactly that purpose. I’ve also come across a garage
>airline that didn’t take plastic,

Bingo! I forgot that one. Service station on the A1 in the Midlands, so
not exactly a backwater, about two months ago, air machine only took
coins, so I had to persuade the petrol station cashier to "sell" me some
on my debit card.

Normally I would have had some on me, but I was driving a hire van, and
didn't have my usual road-warrior kit with me.

When I took the hire van back I complained about the under-inflated tyre
they had supplied me with, but didn't offer to reimburse me.

>though the one I usually use does (though the user interface would
>exasperate Roland - if you do things exactly right it’s fine; if you
>mistime pressing buttons and waving plastic it gets extremely unhelpful).

--
Roland Perry

In message <spnqft$q7t$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:34:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <aseurgdied8c2mcvba76iv5lplotq1k8kq@4ax.com>, at 14:03:21 on
>> Sun, 19 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 17:11:27 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <spl2gk$1n7$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:24 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <spj9nl$nop$6@dont-email.me>, at 00:24:21 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The usability issue is why the train company is not sending the tickets
>>>>>>>> I've been buying [for their trains, between their stations] to its own
>>>>>>>> app's wallet. (I note no-one is prepared to address this fundamental
>>>>>>>> issue, perhaps because they know they have no answer).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I tried it, and the ticket was delivered seamlessly to the app.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps you should contact GA directly, quoting your transaction
>>>>>>>reference
>>>>>>> number, to determine why your transaction failed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I feel that would allow a more successful resolution than asking
>>>>>>> on Usenet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps you missed the part where I said I *had* contacted them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tick Tock, they are now five [*working* - I didn't notice that the first
>>>>>> time] days into the 10 days they claim to answer 90% of enquiries. Feels
>>>>>> like much longer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And of course, they are sending replies to the ticketing email address
>>>>>> on my mobile phone, which I don't usually look at unless I'm expecting a
>>>>>> ticket that I just bought to be delivered. But I did check again just
>>>>>> now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why don't you also get those emails on your PC?
>>>>
>>>> Because they are sent to the email address I set up specially (by
>>>> popular demand) for my phone.
>>>
>>> How long would it take you to add it to your PC email client accounts list?
>>
>> Quite a while, because currently it only picks up classic email (to read
>> offline), not webmail like gmail being turned into offline mail.
>>
>> I know it's possible, but hasn't been necessary so far.
>
>Why do you think gmail is webmail?

Because that's what it was.

>I have a gmail account that I’ve never read by webmail. Gmail
>supports IMAP.

Yes, they've later somewhat clumsily bolted that on.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spj9nk$nop$4@dont-email.me>, at 00:24:20 on Sat, 18 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:

>>> Opening the ticket in gmail revealed that it wasn't so much an
>>> attachment as a link to download a pdf, and with patchy connectivity
>>> that didn't work.
>>
>> Perhaps there's an option to determine whether or not attachments should
>> be automatically downloaded by default, or only
>> on request?
>
>Mine was definitely attached to the email, so I suspect it's an artefact of
>the email software.

I think we are getting a bit distracted here. The first such ticket I
bought last week had an order acknowledgement sent promptly. But the
subsequent email with the pdf ticket attached wasn't sent. At all.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spnqft$q7t$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:34:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <aseurgdied8c2mcvba76iv5lplotq1k8kq@4ax.com>, at 14:03:21 on
>>> Sun, 19 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 17:11:27 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <spl2gk$1n7$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:24 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spj9nl$nop$6@dont-email.me>, at 00:24:21 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The usability issue is why the train company is not sending the tickets
>>>>>>>>> I've been buying [for their trains, between their stations] to its own
>>>>>>>>> app's wallet. (I note no-one is prepared to address this fundamental
>>>>>>>>> issue, perhaps because they know they have no answer).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I tried it, and the ticket was delivered seamlessly to the app.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps you should contact GA directly, quoting your transaction
>>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>> number, to determine why your transaction failed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I feel that would allow a more successful resolution than asking
>>>>>>>> on Usenet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps you missed the part where I said I *had* contacted them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tick Tock, they are now five [*working* - I didn't notice that the first
>>>>>>> time] days into the 10 days they claim to answer 90% of enquiries. Feels
>>>>>>> like much longer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And of course, they are sending replies to the ticketing email address
>>>>>>> on my mobile phone, which I don't usually look at unless I'm expecting a
>>>>>>> ticket that I just bought to be delivered. But I did check again just
>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why don't you also get those emails on your PC?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because they are sent to the email address I set up specially (by
>>>>> popular demand) for my phone.
>>>>
>>>> How long would it take you to add it to your PC email client accounts list?
>>>
>>> Quite a while, because currently it only picks up classic email (to read
>>> offline), not webmail like gmail being turned into offline mail.
>>>
>>> I know it's possible, but hasn't been necessary so far.
>>
>> Why do you think gmail is webmail?
>
> Because that's what it was.
>
>> I have a gmail account that I’ve never read by webmail. Gmail
>> supports IMAP.
>
> Yes, they've later somewhat clumsily bolted that on.

Yes but you are asserting that this is what it is now, as an excuse for not
doing what’s suggested.

How do you defend the assertion that it is clumsily bolted on? It’s been
available since 2007, just three years after the service started.

I’ve never considered my use of gmail to be any different to imap and
exchange accounts on other platforms.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spd3ci$4i2$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:59:14 on Wed, 15 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 14:13:07 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <csk4rghk31luqbj54d6mbr93pge8ssj7jd@4ax.com>, at 19:09:15 on
>>>> Thu, 9 Dec 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>> Email is, at least, reasonably universal. I'm not a huge fan of having
>>>>> to install a different app for every service I use. Maybe TOCs could
>>>>> offer ticket delivery via WhatsApp.
>>>>
>>>> Something less century than PDF, anyway.
>>>
>>> PDFs work everywhere. Not everyone has WhatsCrap or similar social media
>>> nonsense installed.
>>
>> WhatsApp isn't social media. Yes it's recently been purchased by Facebook,
>> but it's still a simple messaging app - basically texting by WiFi/mobile
>> data, rather than by the (potentially chargeable) SMS system.
>
> The one-to-many [and anyone in the group replying] nature (should you
> choose to use it) of WhatsApp is definitely social media.

Hmmm. Is there an actual definition of what constitutes Social Media?

By your definition, email is social media.

WhatsApp may allow communication in groups, but what you see is stuff
specifically sent to you. It doesn't allow you seek out other groups to
join, it doesn't allow you to post stuff for anyone to see.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spdooe$2r5$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:03:57 on Wed, 15 Dec
> 2021, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 15/12/2021 15:50, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <vn1krgdr3pirmh8272gfju5ggtskkvgmiq@4ax.com>, at 15:17:50
>>> on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 14:42:48 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <spb5g8$1vp$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:23:04 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't everyone carry a torch in their pocket these days?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roland probably doesn't know his phone includes a torch, or how to
>>>>>> switch
>>>>>> it on.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm struggling to understand what possible motive you have for making
>>>>> such crassly stupid postings.
>>>>
>>>> Well, do you know how to use the torch in your phone?
>
>>> Obviously. My power pack also has a torch in it, if I have the power
>>> pack about my person, which is unlikely if I've just popped to the
>>> hospital for a clinic appointment, expecting the ticket machine not to
>>> be in total darkness.
>>
>> On my car key-ring I have a small torch operated by turning a handle -
>> never runs out and always available.
>
> That's another thing that doesn't necessarily scale well. We have two
> cars, and two sets of keys (one each). Just one has a miniature
> mercury-cell powered 'maglite'. Which reminds me, I must replace the
> batteries.
>
> <Thread convergence> And another is the only one with the Tesco clubcard
> fob.

We currently have four cars in my household, two of which have two sets of
keys (one for each person).

I don't want to routinely carry all the keys with me, so I have a carabiner
around 7cm*4cm, onto which I attach the various sets of keys (each on their
own conventional key ring) which I'll need that day/trip.

Car keys (4 sets)
House keys
Garage key
Bike keys
Work keys
Parents house key
Railway volunteering-location keys
Tiny penknife.
Foldable ruler keyring.

<https://twitter.com/annanoyddryver/status/1472619060684894216?s=21>

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you think set
>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>
>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>> unnecessary.
>
> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
> such tickets).

OK let's leave train tickets out of it then. You said "what percentage of
ordinary members of the public do you think set up special email addresses
for different online purchases?". I still maintain that vanishingly few
ordinary members of the public do so. Surely you're not now going to claim
that none of them buy anything online?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spfgab$p4t$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spavjm$qqm$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:30 on Tue, 14 Dec
>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>> Even using a specific email address for ticket providers is not viable
>>>>>>> as I'm illegally on two email lists neither of which provide the
>>>>>>> legally required link to remove myself for the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course it is viable, how long does it take to set up a specific email
>>>>>> address for the purpose?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not long. But it becomes usable when the junk email builds up.
>>>>
>>>> tickets2020@…
>>>> tickets2021@…
>>>> tickets2022@…
>>>
>>> And thus you continue to twist the knife, appeasing vendors who
>>> externalise so much of the transactional admin to their customers.
>>>
>>
>> I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
>> with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones,
>
> No they don't, they simply don't buy the tickets in the first place,
>

I've listed numerous other instances in which people receive and show PDFs
on their phone.

If we wish to expand it from 'receive and show' to 'receive, read and keep'
PDF on their phone, we can add to that list, receipts for many online and
real-world purchases, quotes from builders and other tradespeople,
treatment plan and receipts from my dentist, etc.

> or
> if they do, have so little other email traffic that the other couple of
> hundred emails a day which serious email users receive, don't swamp
> them.
>

What percentage of the population receive so many emails to their personal,
rather than work, email addresses?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 13:30:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <spfgab$p4t$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> JOOI, what percentage of ordinary members of the public do you think set
>>>> up special email addresses for different online purchases?
>>>
>>> I'd suggest that the vast majority of the population find it entirely
>>> unnecessary
>>
>> And I've already explained why that is (in particular that very few buy
>> such tickets).
>
> Wne I've been on long-distance train journeys over the last five years
> it's seemed to me that just about everyone under 40 proffers their
> phone to the gripper. So I don't think 'very few' stands.
>

I see plenty of people offering their phone screen to the scanner on the
ticket barriers to exit the station, too.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <spk55c$eg2$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:12:28 on Sat, 18 Dec
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>I’m amazed that Roland has the capacity to deal with this alleged tidal
>wave of emails, given the amount of time he devotes to this group.

This group gets perhaps 10% of my daily attention span. And that's
facilitated by a client which makes it easy. You probably don't see the
other 90%

>The simple fact is, that given the speed of delivery of the emailed ticket,

Like the one I ordered last week which never arrived?

>no matter how many emails you get in a day, the ticket email is going to be
>near the top of your inbox chronologically.

I suppose if you only ever order such a ticket minutes before
travelling, that might hold some water. And then we have GA who
say that you can't pick up an online collect-on-ITSO-ticket until
four hours later, not to mention the entire AP ticketing scheme which
encourages people to order ticket weeks, or even months, in advance.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spjh5l$pgb$2@dont-email.me>, at 02:31:17 on Sat, 18 Dec
2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:

>>>>> However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
>>>>> phone? Just about everyone else does.
>>>>
>>>> Because the tickets have arrived on my PC, not on my phone.
>>>
>>> They can arrive on both you know…..
>>
>> Groundhog day! Yes in theory they can, but I have too many emails
>> arriving at my desktop to be manageable on a phone.
>
>And yet you've declined every suggested solution, including having an
>entirely separate account just for accessing from your phone, as being too
>difficult. Hmm.

I haven't declined it. As I've said multiple times I have set one up.

It's just not something I think passengers should be expected to do, as
self-defence for when the TOC can't be bothered to keep its TVMs in
working order, and have no exclusion clauses in their hectoring signage
about compulsory ticket areas.
--
Roland Perry

In message <spk7nv$qil$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:31 on Sat, 18 Dec
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>Perhaps Roland's inbox is sorted in some unique-to-him way?

As I've said before, it's sorted into a hundred different folders,
which doesn't work on a phone. But I regard as necessary to cope
with the volume.
--
Roland Perry

On 19/12/2021 18:15, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <spjh5l$pgb$2@dont-email.me>, at 02:31:17 on Sat, 18 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>
>>>>>> However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
>>>>>> phone?  Just about everyone else does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because the tickets have arrived on my PC, not on my phone.
>>>>
>>>> They can arrive on both you know…..
>>>
>>> Groundhog day! Yes in theory they can, but I have too many emails
>>> arriving at my desktop to be manageable on a phone.
>>
>> And yet you've declined every suggested solution, including having an
>> entirely separate account just for accessing from your phone, as being
>> too
>> difficult. Hmm.
>
> I haven't declined it. As I've said multiple times I have set one up.
>
> It's just not something I think passengers should be expected to do, as
> self-defence for when the TOC can't be bothered to keep its TVMs in
> working order, and have no exclusion clauses in their hectoring signage
> about compulsory ticket areas.

Yes we all know they do it on purpose to annoy you.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 19/12/2021 17:27, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <spmsgf$mqa$2@dont-email.me>, at 09:03:11 on Sun, 19 Dec
> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>> Change for people unable to use plastic.
>>
>> Vanishingly small after 18 months of Covid.
>
> Get more than a few miles outside you major metro areas, and ask again!
I'm outside a major metropolitan area.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spj30t$ffe$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:29:49 on Fri, 17 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
>>>> with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones,
>>>
>>> No they don't, they simply don't buy the tickets in the first place, or
>>> if they do, have so little other email traffic that the other couple of
>>> hundred emails a day which serious email users receive, don't swamp
>>> them.
>>
>> Evidence, please.
>
> Apart from the salami-slicing I described in a posting a few minutes
> ago, I just don't see that many people waving PDFs (of any kind) at
> gates and grippers.

I've just quizzed my other half on this, who is a train manager (aka guard
aka gripper).

Apparently "most" people have tickets on their phones.

Very rough estimate figures:
75% phone tickets
20% paper tickets
5% ITSO tickets

No difference in proportions between London trains and local trains.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
> What other places? The main other on I've done click-and-collect is
> Tesco, and all they've wanted is my name (yes, that does seem a little
> informal, but then they have a very short [~1hr?] collection window,
> rather than Screwfix's 21 days).
>
> <Thread convergence> being divisible by seven, I presume that's calendar
> days, not working days.

Screwfix being open every day of the week, there's surely no difference
between calendar days and working days?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spn7ch$nbf$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:08:49 on Sun, 19 Dec
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <spj30t$ffe$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:29:49 on Fri, 17 Dec
>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <spfgab$p4t$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:11 on Thu, 16 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm twisting nothing; the majority of the population appear to cope fine
>>>>>> with being emailed PDFs and showing them on their phones,
>>>>>
>>>>> No they don't, they simply don't buy the tickets in the first place, or
>>>>> if they do, have so little other email traffic that the other couple of
>>>>> hundred emails a day which serious email users receive, don't swamp
>>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> Evidence, please.
>>>
>>> Apart from the salami-slicing I described in a posting a few minutes
>>> ago, I just don't see that many people waving PDFs (of any kind) at
>>> gates and grippers.
>>
>> On the relatively few times I’ve been on trains in the last couple of years
>> I can echo other posters’ experience that a significant number of other
>> passengers wave phones at grippers and gates. I can’t tell if what they
>> are displaying are PDFs, if that’s what’s important to you. In-app wallets
>> might contain, PDFs, of course.
>
> Of a train with perhaps 200 people on it, how many? And are these
> largely inner suburban, outer suburban, or intercity-style trains?
>

Having just quizzed a conveniently nearby ticketing person about this, the
answer is approximately 150 out of your 200 passengers, and no difference
across train types. Only ten people on the train would be using ITSO.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <splgpr$2tl$2@dont-email.me>, at 20:37:15 on Sat, 18 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> And that's not too disjoint from the idea that if a TVM isn't working
>>> there should be a £1-in-the-slot PERTIS machine as a gesture to the
>>> idea you aren't entirely fare-dodger.
>>
>> Who carries coins in 2021?!
>
> I have a few, for supermarket trolleys etc. Or does your supermarket
> trolley park have barcode readers?
>

The supermarkets I use don't have coin-trolleys, but in any case I rarely
use a trolley anyway. If I encountered such a supermarket I would indeed be
somewhat stumped; perhaps I'll put a pound coin in the car somewhere.

> It also seems a bit of an overkill to use a credit card via phone to pay
> for 50p of off-peak parking at the station.

I used to think like that about 25 years ago. The world has moved on since
then, though, and now it seems overkill to carry coins unused for months on
the off-chance that I might one day make a transaction under £1.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>
> I think we are getting a bit distracted here. The first such ticket I
> bought last week had an order acknowledgement sent promptly. But the
> subsequent email with the pdf ticket attached wasn't sent. At all.
>

I think we've determined that that was an unfortunate, one-off, glitch in
the system, haven't we? On the grounds that you have conducted several
successful transactions since then, I've done one, and doubtless several
thousand other people have done so too.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spjh5l$pgb$2@dont-email.me>, at 02:31:17 on Sat, 18 Dec
> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>
>>>>>> However you ordered them, don't you present them at the venue on your
>>>>>> phone? Just about everyone else does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because the tickets have arrived on my PC, not on my phone.
>>>>
>>>> They can arrive on both you know…..
>>>
>>> Groundhog day! Yes in theory they can, but I have too many emails
>>> arriving at my desktop to be manageable on a phone.
>>
>> And yet you've declined every suggested solution, including having an
>> entirely separate account just for accessing from your phone, as being too
>> difficult. Hmm.
>
> I haven't declined it. As I've said multiple times I have set one up.
>
> It's just not something I think passengers should be expected to do, as
> self-defence for when the TOC can't be bothered to keep its TVMs in
> working order, and have no exclusion clauses in their hectoring signage
> about compulsory ticket areas.

Nobody except you [1] has trouble with receiving such emails into their
normal email account. Nobody else expects to have to set up a different
email address because nobody else feels it's necessary because they all
manage quite successfully without doing so!

[1] ok, except you and a handful of other people

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 09:03:11 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 19/12/2021 04:00, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 20:37:15 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And that's not too disjoint from the idea that if a TVM isn't working
>>>> there should be a £1-in-the-slot PERTIS machine as a gesture to the
>>>> idea you aren't entirely fare-dodger.
>>>
>>> Who carries coins in 2021?!
>>>
>> <raises hand>
>> Supermarket trolleys.
>
>Got a token on my keyring
>
>> Small purchases.
>
>tap the phone
>
"Cash only below five pounds."
<snip>

On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 13:25:58 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <28ctrgt9u06qhp5leopokklk5kn6obdu65@4ax.com>, at 04:24:36 on
>Sun, 19 Dec 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>remarked:
>
>>>>>I've not encountered it when buying from Screwfix, Amazon or AliExpress
>>>>>to name but a few sites I buy from most frequently.
>>>>>
>>>>I get Screwfix invoices e-mailed as PDFs, (usually before I am out of
>>>>the shop door).
>>>
>>>But if you order in advance, does the shop require you to show it on
>>>your phone, before handing over the goods?
>>>
>>Stating last four digits and surname generally sufficed during the
>>"only one person in the shop" period
>
>I've only quoted the last-four-digits for ages (long before Covid) and
>then they ask *me* if I'm Mr Perry.
>
>>but I suspect if I had gone to collect something expensive then they
>>might have been a bit more stringent.
>
>Perhaps that depends on the definition of "expensive". My average order
>is about £25.
>
There are some fairly expensive power tools and other equipment which
are more lucrative targets for interception. As with my branches, they
might recognise you from previous visits anyway.

>>Now that I actually get to the counter
>
>They didn't let you near the counter during Covid? here they did,
>although with only two customers in the store at a time.
>
A lot of branches put a table in the doorway (as also did some
retailers such as e.g. Dunelm who were getting by with click and
collect) so you never went in. Some continued to do so after others
had screens installed; the public side of the counter varies quite a
bit in size between branches, those located in ordinary shop-fronts
tending to be the smallest.

>The main
>restriction was withdrawing the Argos-style order-in-store, and going
>click-and-collect only.
>
>>I usually hold the phone out anyway as a screen and mask tend to get in
>>the way of conversation; at other collection places for online-order
>>packages this is usual so that the barcode/ QR code can be scanned.
>
>What other places?
>
The assortment of small shops doing the click and collect for goods
delivered via Amazon, Collect+ and others.

>The main other on I've done click-and-collect is
>Tesco, and all they've wanted is my name (yes, that does seem a little
>informal, but then they have a very short [~1hr?] collection window,
>rather than Screwfix's 21 days).
>
"Meet us in the car park. We're in the big orange/whatever van, not to
be confused with the chap in the black BMW delivering other stuff."

The short collection window is presumably due to the presence of
perishables in combination with the vehicle possibly serving several
locations.

><Thread convergence> being divisible by seven, I presume that's calendar
>days, not working days.

On 19/12/2021 19:14, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 09:03:11 +0000, Graeme Wall
> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 19/12/2021 04:00, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 20:37:15 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And that's not too disjoint from the idea that if a TVM isn't working
>>>>> there should be a £1-in-the-slot PERTIS machine as a gesture to the
>>>>> idea you aren't entirely fare-dodger.
>>>>
>>>> Who carries coins in 2021?!
>>>>
>>> <raises hand>
>>> Supermarket trolleys.
>>
>> Got a token on my keyring
>>
>>> Small purchases.
>>
>> tap the phone
>>
> "Cash only below five pounds."
> <snip>

Take my business elsewhere, plenty of other places will oblige.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 20:17:01 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 19/12/2021 19:14, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 09:03:11 +0000, Graeme Wall
>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/12/2021 04:00, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 20:37:15 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And that's not too disjoint from the idea that if a TVM isn't working
>>>>>> there should be a £1-in-the-slot PERTIS machine as a gesture to the
>>>>>> idea you aren't entirely fare-dodger.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who carries coins in 2021?!
>>>>>
>>>> <raises hand>
>>>> Supermarket trolleys.
>>>
>>> Got a token on my keyring
>>>
>>>> Small purchases.
>>>
>>> tap the phone
>>>
>> "Cash only below five pounds."
>> <snip>
>
>Take my business elsewhere, plenty of other places will oblige.
>
Try buying a newspaper with plastic round here[TM] on a Sunday morning
before the supermarkets are open. The trouble is the charging for
debit cards rather than credit cards but it is easier to ban all
plastic for low value purchases to avoid argument.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <spnqft$q7t$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:34:53 on Sun, 19 Dec
> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <aseurgdied8c2mcvba76iv5lplotq1k8kq@4ax.com>, at 14:03:21 on
>>> Sun, 19 Dec 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 17:11:27 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <spl2gk$1n7$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:24 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <spj9nl$nop$6@dont-email.me>, at 00:24:21 on Sat, 18 Dec
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The usability issue is why the train company is not sending the tickets
>>>>>>>>> I've been buying [for their trains, between their stations] to its own
>>>>>>>>> app's wallet. (I note no-one is prepared to address this fundamental
>>>>>>>>> issue, perhaps because they know they have no answer).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I tried it, and the ticket was delivered seamlessly to the app.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps you should contact GA directly, quoting your transaction
>>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>> number, to determine why your transaction failed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I feel that would allow a more successful resolution than asking
>>>>>>>> on Usenet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps you missed the part where I said I *had* contacted them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tick Tock, they are now five [*working* - I didn't notice that the first
>>>>>>> time] days into the 10 days they claim to answer 90% of enquiries. Feels
>>>>>>> like much longer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And of course, they are sending replies to the ticketing email address
>>>>>>> on my mobile phone, which I don't usually look at unless I'm expecting a
>>>>>>> ticket that I just bought to be delivered. But I did check again just
>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why don't you also get those emails on your PC?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because they are sent to the email address I set up specially (by
>>>>> popular demand) for my phone.
>>>>
>>>> How long would it take you to add it to your PC email client accounts list?
>>>
>>> Quite a while, because currently it only picks up classic email (to read
>>> offline), not webmail like gmail being turned into offline mail.
>>>
>>> I know it's possible, but hasn't been necessary so far.
>>
>> Why do you think gmail is webmail?
>
> Because that's what it was.
>
>> I have a gmail account that I’ve never read by webmail. Gmail
>> supports IMAP.
>
> Yes, they've later somewhat clumsily bolted that on.

Huh? I've collected Gmail using offline email clients for many years. It's
also always had the ability to auto-forward email to any other email
address you nominate.